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Tech: Question for WWW Experts

Murray MacLeod 08 Mar 09 - 08:04 PM
Bill D 08 Mar 09 - 08:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Mar 09 - 08:29 PM
Bill D 08 Mar 09 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 08 Mar 09 - 11:37 PM
Acme 08 Mar 09 - 11:54 PM
JohnInKansas 09 Mar 09 - 02:17 AM
Murray MacLeod 09 Mar 09 - 04:12 AM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 09 - 06:06 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 09 Mar 09 - 06:28 AM
Bill D 09 Mar 09 - 09:22 AM
Acme 09 Mar 09 - 11:59 AM
olddude 09 Mar 09 - 06:28 PM
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Subject: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 08:04 PM

Why is it that some websites disappear when you type in the address of a different site in the browser bar (or click on a link) and other sites don't ?

Ebay in particular is annoying in this respect. I have lost count of the number of times I have painstakingly composed a selling listing, only to find that all my effort vanishes into thin air when I click on a link to another bookmarked site. To add insult to injury, you invariably have to sign in again every time this happens. (Yes, I know, I should save the draft or minimize the page, but I just forget, OK ?)

Not every site behaves like this, and I would like to know what the technical reason for it is. I won't understand the explanation, but I would still like to have it explained.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 08:26 PM

I'm not sure exactly what "vanishes" means... but it may be that your browser settings do not control whether a 'new' site opens in the same window or a new window...(or even in a new 'tab')...Do you have or use 'tabbed browsing'? This allows you to have multiple sites open at the same time and can save lots of grief.

What actually DOES happen? (and in which browser?)Does it go to the new site ok? Can you then hit 'back' on your menu and return to where you were?

There are also settings to control "referring", in which the site has code to tell your browser where to go (or not go) when you click on links.

"....composed a selling listing, only to find that all my effort vanishes into thin air when I click on a link to another bookmarked site.

You mean Ebay vanishes when you click WITHIN Ebay, or just when you click on any bookmark?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 08:29 PM

If you right click and tell the link to open in a new tab, that would would avoid this happening, I would think.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 08:43 PM

as McGrath says... as long as your browser has tabs. In an case, it 'should' be able to open in either a new window OR tab.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 11:37 PM

What browser?

What platform? MAC/PC

Bill and McGrath - have your answer pegged ABOVE (the history behind MS and Apple browsers is interesting - it was the Windows aka today Tabs that permitted multiple viewing of different sources that created a "paradym shift" in the world of "on-line browsing.")

For Mudcat postings (which are like "formal chat rooms" I requently forget - become envolved - and fail to go to notepad) sometimes a 15 minute segment fails to load....to bad...so sad...learn for next time.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Acme
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 11:54 PM

eBay is horrible for doing that. It did it to me this evening. It has to do with the cgi pages and forms, I think. If it hits something it doesn't like, it reloads the same page, brings up a message telling you what you need to correct, but once you make the correction it is a crap shoot as to whether your data will stay on the page when you click "continue."

I was using IE and turned it off and went to Firefox to re-fill the form. Firefox is at times a more stable program, so you might want to try a different browser if the one you crashed and burned in does it very often.

I work up my basic information in Notepad or Word, lay out my auction information in FrontPage, and copy the html information to eBay from there. Redundancy is key. I don't type it into eBay and have to re-compose and re-type if it crashes, I just have to re-enter my specifications situating the auction.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 02:17 AM

It sounds like it's just a matter of whether the new site opens in the same window/tab as the original one, in which case it may wipe out the old one, or if the new one opens in a new window or new tab, in which case both are (usually) still "up and ready."

A link on a web page can include the "spec" that the target page should open in a new window, or in a new tab. If it does either, the original window remains open, and you should be able to go back to it either by selecting it to bring it to the front or by closing the new one.

Usually, even if the new page opens in the same window/tab as the original one, you can use the "Back" button to go back to the first window. Sometimes the Back button is disabled and doesn't work. You will only get what you've typed into the original page if it's retrieved from your own Temp memory, and some pages "force a refresh" that will dump your content when you "go back." The Back button can apparently be disabled by code on the newer page (maliciously, annoyingly, or accidentally, I suppose) but the most common cause for a "failure to Back" is when a login is required on either page (and the two pages don't have the same login, or sometimes if there's just a difference in "security" for the two pages.

In most cases (at least in Windows) you can "request" that the new page open in a new window or in a new tab, by Right-Clicking the link and selecting "Open in new window" or "Open in new tab" on the dropdown list. This is "almost sure-fire" but either page can, apparently override your choice and force you to stay in the same window (and again, the most common reason for doing so is when a login is required on one or the other of the two pages).

In Windows browsers that include tabbed browsing, "clicking" with the wheel on the mouse when on a link defaults to a "right click - open in new tab."

If you need to type in a URL, you'll need to open the new window/tab before typing, so that only the new window/tab goes to the new page. If your browser doesn't tab, use "File|New Window" (in IE at least) to get a new Window open and use the new one to go on.

As suggested though, it's always safest to save what you're doing on the first page before going to a different one - i.e. paste it into Notepad or Word before you click the link.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 04:12 AM

Thanks, everybody, for all the input, my confusion arose from the fact that on some sites, when you open a forum page from the home page the home page stays open, and on some sites it doesn't, but I have got it straight now. I am using IE 7.

As SRS says, though, Ebay can be very capricious.

I have never used "tabbed" browsing, and I never knew about the right-click on the link either, so that is something else I have learnt today.

Thanks again, what a wonderful place this is ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 06:06 AM

Usually when you have to re-enter content it's for security reasons. EBay is trying to allow for the situation where somebody logs in on a public computer and then just walks away without logging out.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 06:28 AM

One way is to run multiple instances of browsers. Or use different tabs. What I do is to right click and "open in new window" (or tab). That way you have the original page to refer to and try again with the same wheeze. Or in extremis I save and edit in Word and get the URL that way (see below).

The reason the link fails is probably lost packets. If you are using a public access PC they may have screwed-down the system to prevent idiots "loading things they shouldn't and don't understand why it matters". Or the ISP is monitoring your surfing so that government can leave it alone. That monitoring can overload the system. I get sluggish loads and no loads all the time at the library here in the UK.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 09:22 AM

JiK wrote:"Sometimes the Back button is disabled and doesn't work. "

This used to drive me crazy...I first noticed it years ago when some page randomly directed me to a site with garish ads..etc.

Usually,what seems to happen is that the 're-direction' happens when the link you click sends you thru a blank page whose only purpose is to redirect you to the 'ad' page. (This happens so fast you usually can't see it) Then, if you hit the 'back' button, you just get that re-directing page again...and again....and again.

*IF* you have a browser that allows adding buttons to the toolbar(s)...(Opera & Firefox...I don't know about I.E.)...you can usually get a little down arrow beside your 'back' button...or simply right-click on the 'back' button, and you'll see the history of your browsing..including that nasty page they sneaked in there. Go down to the 2nd link, and you'll skip the re-directing page and be back where you wish.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: Acme
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 11:59 AM

When you're in the middle of a form and haven't timed out, Jack, eBay still manages to scuttle what you were doing. It doesn't help if you're using a ponderous browser. Depending on your security settings, the browser can make the situation worse.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Question for WWW Experts
From: olddude
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 06:28 PM

In the case of a pop up, the programmer controls what appears in the popup, that is, he can designate if the browser bar should or should not appear. Likewise he can control what other tool bars should appear. If it is a popup you are talking about then it is under the programmers control


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