Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Pronouncing Karpeles etc

GUEST,Young Johnson 08 Mar 09 - 09:32 PM
Joe Offer 08 Mar 09 - 10:29 PM
Gurney 08 Mar 09 - 10:50 PM
Rowan 08 Mar 09 - 10:52 PM
Gurney 08 Mar 09 - 11:50 PM
Barbara 08 Mar 09 - 11:58 PM
Dave Hanson 09 Mar 09 - 04:46 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 09 - 06:20 AM
bubblyrat 09 Mar 09 - 06:58 AM
DMcG 09 Mar 09 - 07:03 AM
The Sandman 09 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 09 - 08:05 AM
RTim 09 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM
Tug the Cox 09 Mar 09 - 09:29 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Mar 09 - 09:34 AM
masato sakurai 09 Mar 09 - 10:01 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 09 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,Isopel Berners 09 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM
RTim 09 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM
Joe Offer 09 Mar 09 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,OldNicKilby 09 Mar 09 - 11:58 AM
Martin Graebe 09 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Mar 09 - 03:25 PM
RoyH (Burl) 09 Mar 09 - 04:05 PM
BB 09 Mar 09 - 04:12 PM
Steve Gardham 09 Mar 09 - 07:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM
Gurney 10 Mar 09 - 12:24 AM
Martin Graebe 10 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM
bubblyrat 10 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM
Dave Hanson 10 Mar 09 - 08:07 AM
Steve Gardham 10 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM
BB 10 Mar 09 - 03:55 PM
GUEST,Chris P. 10 Mar 09 - 04:27 PM
Bainbo 10 Mar 09 - 04:34 PM
bubblyrat 10 Mar 09 - 07:52 PM
Rowan 11 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM
paula t 11 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,GrannyInWales 11 Mar 09 - 08:01 PM
Snuffy 11 Mar 09 - 08:20 PM
Dave Hanson 12 Mar 09 - 03:15 AM
Rowan 12 Mar 09 - 05:19 PM
Dave Hanson 13 Mar 09 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Kev Boyd 13 Mar 09 - 01:04 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Pronouncing Karpeles, etc
From: GUEST,Young Johnson
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 09:32 PM

Hello,

I'm interested in the early history of the English folk revival, but since most of the personnel are long dead and rarely spoken of aloud, I'm wondering how some of their names were pronounced.

Maud Karpeles - CAR-pulls, CAR-pullers, CAR-per-lees?
Sabine Bearing-Gould - Sa-BEEN or SAY-bine?

Feel free to add any other names to the discussion. Much obliged...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 10:29 PM

You have to belong to the club before you know those things. I don't belong to the club, so I am forever condemned to looking stupid while people giggle at me behind my back.

But I think it's suh-BEAN AND CAR-pull-us

Oh, and I DO know it's pronounced RAFE vaughan williams.

My dog, on the other hand, is "Ralph," pronounced "raalf" - named after Ralph Cramden on the Honeymooners. How sweet it is!

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 10:50 PM

I always thought it was Car-pee-lis and Say-byne, but what do I know?

Rafe is the English way of pronouncing that name. Raalf is the Scots way.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 10:52 PM

I'm out of the same club as Joe but I used to know some of the characters who gave everyone the impression they'd been in it when Maude Karpeles and Sabine Baring Gould were still around. If you forgive the Oz accent Maude's surname was always (around here, anyway) pronounced
Kar-pellies

and Baring Gould's given name was pronounced
Sa (as in "cat")-been.

But I have since met women with German parentage who were named Sabine and who pronounced it
Suh- been-uh.

Cheers, Rowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 11:50 PM

Bertha. Ber-thah in England, Bee-ar-tah in Denmark and Germany?

Not used in England since Victorian times. They built a huge traction engine and called it 'Big Bertha.' Not popular since. Funny, that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Barbara
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 11:58 PM

Cicely Fox Smith.

Sis uh lee   
or
Sigh suh lee?

Blessings,
Barbara


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 04:46 AM

It's Sabine pronounced ' say been '

and Karpeles pronounced ' car pel ees '

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 06:20 AM

Interesting. In the legend of the rape of the Sabine women it's short first "a" (like "bang") and then "bine" to rhyme with "mine".

I have never met a Cicely who wasn't "Si" (short "i" like "bit") then "silly".

My next door neighbour in Australia was Bertha Dotch. Yes she was. Short but powerful. First syllable like "birth", final "a" short and almost un-sounded.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 06:58 AM

Think yourself lucky you don't have to cope with some of our more bizarre English surnames ;
ffoulkes ( Fooks) ( yes---it starts with a small "f")

    Mainwaring    ( Mannering)

      Cholmondeley   ( Chumly)

             Featherstonehaugh ( Fanshaw)

               Marjoribanks      (Marchbanks)

I just love some of our names,actually---Our Ambassador to the US once was Sir Crispin Tickell ( Tick-Ell, of course,not ,sadly,Tickle !)
    Then there was our unfortunate Admiral, Sir Cloudesley Shovell
    ( Shove-Ell, not Shovel !)
   
And we musn't forget our famous explorer,whose full name is Sir Ranulph Twisleton-Wickham-Fiennes.
            Oh yes ! And "Robotham " is pronounced "Row Bottom" ...
                     (Naturally ).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 07:03 AM

Mt Everest is named after Sir George Everest, but he is supposed to have pronounced his name eve-rest, not ever-est.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM

Wymondham is Windham,Theydon Bois[boys],Cecil[surname]is Seesel.
how is Joe Offer pronounced,is it joffa?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 08:05 AM

Sidebottom ("Siddey - Bot - arm")
Onions (" A' - Nye - ons")
Death (middle name) ("Deeth")


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: RTim
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM

I knew a surveyor in Wintey, Oxfordshire whose name was "Mr. Death"
and he changed it to - "De'Ath", much more "County!"

Tim Radford


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 09:29 AM

Trottiscliffe in Kent is pronounced Trossley.
Gentrification by estate agents has allegedly lef to Clarm (clapham) and St. ( saint) Reetam ( Streatham)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 09:34 AM

When I worked in car insurance I overheard one of the telephone operators apologising to ' Mrs Trebellco ' he had called her Mrs Treblecock , how it was written down.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 10:01 AM

I've been pronouncing CAR-pi-leaze, according to BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 10:04 AM

No, Trottiscliffe is "Trozley"

And Wrotham is "Root'm"

And Ightham is "Eye-t'm"

And OUR Gillingham is "Jilling'm"

And Baddlesmere is "Barlesmere"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: GUEST,Isopel Berners
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM

I thought "big bertha" was a gun, not a traction engine.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: RTim
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM

Big Bertha was indeed a WW1 or before gun - and my mother was named after it!
Bertha Constance Humby!!

Tim Radford


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 11:34 AM

But in German, "Bertha" is BEAR-tuh

German, I can pronounce. It's English that give me problems.

-Joe, born in the USA-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 11:58 AM

Sorry Richard
IGHTHAM is eye-tum ,at least thats what my family always called it and they lived there for about 170 years.
The ultimate authority on S B G is of course Martin Graebe I will point him in the direction
We were singing at a festival when someone introduced a song as coming from the "Braying Gould" collection. He was adamant that it was so as he had seen it on the net


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Martin Graebe
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM

Re Sabine Baring-Gould

The family confirm that it is pronounced 'Say-bin Bear-ing Goold'

His forename was given for his great-uncle General Sir Edward Sabine, the arctic explorer and scientist

Martin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 03:25 PM

English is troublesome, that is the reason for books like the "Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary," now in its 16th edition.
The current edition also covers American pronunciations- yes, they can be different. I don't know about Australian, but they could be topsy-turvy.
As referenced by Masato, the BBC Dictionary also is good (Oxford Press).

According to the Karpeles Manuscript Library Museum, the pronunciation is KARP e les.

German is easier, unless you delve into low German. Then all bets are off.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 04:05 PM

I once mentioned Maud karpeles in an article I was writing. My spell checker didn't like it, offered me 'Mad CarPools'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: BB
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 04:12 PM

Woolsfardisworthy - Woolsery - or even Wools'ry!

Barbara


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 07:20 PM

Appletreewick=Aptrick
Alnwick=Annick
Aike=Yack

Thanks, Martin, for pronouncing on SBG.
While I'm on how much is your last 'e' of Graebe pronounced and is it German?


With RVW I sometimes get confused over his surname as he is often referred to as Vaughan Williams. Is he a double barreler like SBG or is Vaughan his middle name?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM

RVW's father was Arthur Vaughan Williams; no hyphen.

Dunno the genealogy, nor was I at the christening, so I can't add to that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 12:24 AM

Well, Isopel and RTim, Big Bertha WAS a giant gun used in WW1, but in 1907 it was an Aveling & Porter traction engine, and in 1910 the name was used for a carousel music organ in the USA.

I checked up with Google, and one reference that I found was to the post that I did up there! You have to be careful if you don't want your ignorance exposed to the world, it seems.>:-]
Most of the references related to a game with a four-letter name.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Martin Graebe
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM

Steve

Funnily enough, I wondered about adding something witty about pronouncing my own name. The family was split on the topic. My Grandfather and both of my uncles favoured a pronunciation as if it ended in 'ee'. My dad said it as if it had an 'r' on the end, closer to its original German (my great-grandfather came from Hanover)- now all of the UK branch that I know do it that way.

Spelling it has been more of a problem. At one time I started to stick the mis-spelt adresses from envelopes on a piece of A3 paper on the back of my office door. When the A3 sheets occupied the full height of the door I gave up. It was the ones with 'z's and 'x's that got me.By the time I get past the spelling I tend to let the pronunciation go.

Martin Graebe


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM

Truro is "Trow"

The village of Mousehole is pronounced "Muzzle",an unpleasant inhabitant thereof being,by extension,an "Arzzle" (obviously !).

St John is usually ,in England anyway,"Sinjen", so ,when I am in Sidmouth,I often nip down the road to "Ottery Simmery".

Launceston is "Larnston",but I always say "Lorn-cess-ton" to annoy "Hawker" .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 08:07 AM

Mousehole is pronounced ' Mouzel '

The ex head of the RBS Sir Fred Goodwin is pronounced ' useless greedy bastard '

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM

Thanks, Martin.
Right on Q!

RVW's surname is Vaughan Williams regardless of hyphen as his Missus was Ursula VW.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: BB
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 03:55 PM

I can accept Larnson for Launceston, but I'm not too sure about Larnston. It's usually the 't' sound that's left out, even when people pronounce it Launson. I believe it's more Lanson, as in 'We'll give you the chance at St. Stephen's, by Lanson', in 'The Bellringing' song.

Barbara


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: GUEST,Chris P.
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 04:27 PM

Sowerby Bridge = Saar Brigg
Keighley = Keethly
Slaithwaite = Slawit
Todmorden = Todmudun


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Bainbo
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 04:34 PM

Anyone called Cockburn usually insists it's pronounced Coe-burn. For obvious reasons.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 07:52 PM

So ....We now know Pete Coe's REAL name,then ??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM

Launceston is "Larnston",but I always say "Lorn-cess-ton" to annoy "Hawker" .

That might be well and good in Pommy Land but if you tried either Lanston or Lanson in Oz while referring to the Tassie Launceston, 99 times out of ten you'd become lost, as "Lorn-cess-ton" is the go 'round here.

Cheers, Rowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: paula t
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM

Warwick is "worrick"
Over Peover is "Over Peever"
Then there's all the stuff about "scones".Don't go there!
What about Shrewsbury (or is it "Shrowsbury?")


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: GUEST,GrannyInWales
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 08:01 PM

In Northamptonshire there is a village spelt Cogenhoe which is pronounced "Cooknah"

Croughton, just outside Brackley where there is a RAF/USAF Station is pronounced "Croe-ton"

Anyone want a bash at a place near me called "Pantycacklode"......?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 08:20 PM

Bedduth is in Woricksher, just up the Fozle Road from Cov


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 03:15 AM

Scone in Perthshire is ' Scoon ' and great fishing on the Tay also.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 05:19 PM

The New South Wales town of Wauchope is pronounced war-hope.
The Northern Territory town of Wauchope is pronounced walk-up.

Cheers, Rowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:30 AM

Yeah but they're named after a tributary of the Border Esk in Dumfriesshire, pronounced wa hup, good sea trout fishing in a spate.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc
From: GUEST,Kev Boyd
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 01:04 PM

My head started hurting before I'd read the whole thread so someone bay have already said this, but i'm pretty sure Maud's surname is pronounced CAR-PULL-LEZ (or maybe it should be written CAR-P-LEZ).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 16 December 11:10 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.