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BS: Ten Smartest Dogs
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,K9 Date: 21 Mar 09 - 12:32 PM Say what you like, Brian's a lot smarter than Peter... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,LynnT Date: 19 Mar 09 - 09:49 PM Speaking of border collies, have you folks seen this one? Turn the volume up when you play it, eh? Extreme Sheepherding LynnT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Nick E Date: 19 Mar 09 - 09:03 PM I have a dachshunt that can dial long distance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 09 - 08:31 PM Ten smartest dogs should mean ten smartest dogs, not ten allegedly smartest breeds of dogs. In which case, if it were possible to find them, I strongly suspect it would turn out they didn't belong to any breed, but were mongrels. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: katlaughing Date: 19 Mar 09 - 07:33 PM John, thanks for the link! I think I'll see if I can find the vid we did of Montee and put it up on youtube. Victor, they surely do leave a hole in our hearts. My daughter has three boxers, all under three years old. Her husband has an old pit bull who rides herd on them all, "Nanny Dizzy." I don't even want to think what it will be like for my grandson when they all go. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Mar 09 - 07:10 PM Come to think of it, we go to work, fight with bank managers, buy dogfood, stress out, get married and divorced, get psychotherapy for our children - while dogs sleep by the fire, eat dogfood, and sleep by the fire some more. I reckon that makes ALL of them smarter than most of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Green Wellies Date: 19 Mar 09 - 05:50 AM One of our Border Collies is more likely to locate the quail and tell them to sit tight, while she runs off in the opposite direction - but we love her! (and she ran into the tree while chasing a squirrel). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 19 Mar 09 - 12:12 AM As John Hardly alluded early in this thread, the perception of canine "intelligence" is very much a matter of how the dog's abilities correspond with the owner's needs and expectations. A sheep herder might think a German Short-haired Pointer is the dumbest animal on earth, but show me a Border Collie who can locate a covey of quail, indicate their location to a hunter, flush them upon command, and retrieve them after they've been shot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Joybell Date: 18 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM Thank you John. That's great. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Victor in Mapperton Date: 18 Mar 09 - 10:50 AM I had two Boxers, one for twelve years and the other for fourteen. They could have almost talked to you. Both died of kidney failure, I think it must be in the breed as my sister lost hers to the same illness. The loss of a pet leaves an almighty hole in your life, much more than realise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,green wellies Date: 18 Mar 09 - 10:01 AM Border Collies are considered extremely intellegent, however the last two we have are so completely different they may as well be different breeds. Gyp: Typical BC, does not move from your side until given a command, totally faithful, dependable, reliable, fun, chases balls brings them back, works sheep for anybody beautifully. Fly: Complete deliquent, steals food, sleeps on the sofa, ignors any command unless the word 'biscuit' is in the sentence, clears off home when she get board, will not venture outside in the dark, rain, cold weather, has to sit on front passenger seat of RangeRover, chases the horses (has been kicked twice - but still chases the same horse), hates sheep. Both bitches, trained in exactly the same way by the same methods. In fact the only difference is one is from Worcestershire and the other is from Cornwall - and I'm not telling which is which. !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Smartest dog Date: 17 Mar 09 - 12:21 PM Duh a BORDER COLLIE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: John Hardly Date: 15 Mar 09 - 07:58 AM Surely yo've all seen this ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Becca72 Date: 15 Mar 09 - 07:15 AM Kat, that sounds like my Husky. When in trouble she would stomp her feet and "yell" back at you. She also learned to say "out, mumma" and once, just once, I got her to say "I wuf oooo". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: katlaughing Date: 15 Mar 09 - 01:07 AM We had a Doberman-German Shepherd mix, Shu-Montu aka Monty, who was hilarious and loyal. He could scare the bejaysus out of anyone threatening us, but loved all kids and the neighbours. He *talked* all of the time when spoken to. We taught him to say "I love you" which came out "I wuf ooo" and he would cuss a blue streak when told to do something he didn't want to like come inside when I told him to. He would go out on a long rope, from our porch, trail it behind him, down about ten steps, then over into the side yard under an apple tree. Sometimes, he would have so much fun playing, he'd get the rope wound round the tree. When I would step out to bring him in, I tell him to "go round" to unwind the rope. If he went the wrong way, I say "No, the other way" and he would turn round, though cussing me out the whole time. The whole neighbourhood loved that dog. I've since seen drill teams of Dobies with their owners/handlers and have learned they tend to have some clownish antics up their sleeves as a breed. It certainly came out in him. He loved lying on his back and looked like a bat because his ears were huge and would flop out just like batwings.:-) I've read elsewhere that McNabs are often called McNab Collies, leaving out the "Border" part. For some great stories about them, from folks who worked cattle, sheep, and even reindeer with them, Please Click Here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: kendall Date: 14 Mar 09 - 04:10 PM I thought they were named for the area where they were developed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: TRUBRIT Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:15 PM Thanks fot the explanation of German Shepherds v. Alsations. I just thought we Brits called them Alsations and yanks called them German Shephers and never really asked why..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM Parson Jacks and Jacks are different. I'm not sure if the Kennel Club has yet recognised either as breeding true. Most things sold as Jacks are small short-haired terrier mongrels. I have a friend, much into pikey (justified in this case) dog breeders, from whom he got two Jacks - an alleged "mini-Jack", probably a Jackx2-Chihuahua-whippet cross - tiny with bat-ears, ran like the wind for her size and yapped a lot - and a "Bull-Jack" which was a bit like a smaller Staffordshire Bull Terrier - about twice the width of a Jack, and jaws like a mechanical digger. Turned my Great Dane over twice, before the day she got him in her mouth from end-to-end (yep, head to tail, not across his back) after which he showed more respect. Allegedly his sire was "The Rat" well known on the Essex dog fighting scene. The dog was taken into the local pub (now shut) once. A local travelling boy (hard as nails, ex 2-para) said "What the fuck is that? Good fighting dog. I know fighting dogs, let me see." He got bitten, the landords LabX got turned over, Bosun shat on the carpet, pissed on three table-legs, and left in disgrace. Both had to be rehomed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Joybell Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:43 PM I once read about an intelligence test someone thought up. It involved putting various animals behind a closed door that had a handle that could be opened with a bit of perseverance. They had various ways of setting it up. The results were quite interesting for cats because they would work on the problem and almost always solve it and get out. The dogs sometimes did and also showed intelligence in doing it. The results were skewed somewhat by the dogs that sat at the door and barked. Asking for help from humans who were known to be able to open doors was considered to be intelligent too. Just because I can't help myself I have to say that if I ever chose to have another dog it would have to be a German Shepherd. I've known lots of different dogs but that's how it is for me. Thank you my late old friend. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Sorch Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:17 PM And now the AKC in it's infinite wisdom has decided that Jack Russels are now Parson Russles in the US. I'm sorry, but...they are NOT identical. The Parsons have MUCH longer legs and are heavier bodied. The Alstation thing started when Germany was bombing the crap out of England and the English didn't want to say the word 'German' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: frogprince Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:12 PM Oh, Lord; Jack Russels. My older sister got talked into taking a young Jack Russel from someone whose kid turned out to be allergic to it. It's an outrageous dog option for an older lady, in a small house, with no knack for teaching obedience. At least it has mellowed significantly after a couple of years. Dumb, it isn't. But when I first encountered it, I was about ready to write it off as totally "nucking futs". But, yes, so darn much fun so much of the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Sorch Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:11 PM Yes, an Alstasian is the same as a German Shepherd Dog. frogprince, I wonder if you had 'Bearded collie'? They look a LOT like an OES, but they have a tail |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: VirginiaTam Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM Used to be a dog walker. Shitzu aren't good for anything but leaving ass dragging skidmarks on the carpet. Golden Retrievers are lovely. Took care of 2 black labs. One was nice animal, the other a bear to walk. She just would not be controlled. I was on muscle relaxers after walking that dog. Little poodles are smart but kind of needy. Spoiled rotten maltese, 3 yorkies, and a chiuaua not so much fun. Paranoid miniature collie, impossible to get onto lead. Cocker spaniels pretty dumb. Springers ok and obedient. Jack Russels a barrel of fun. Wow! Thanks for the trip down memory lane. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: frogprince Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:54 PM Doggone it, Richard B., now you've got me wondering just what we had there. We're talking a lot of years since we acquired him, but I could have sworn he was sold as an " English Sheepdog" or "English Shepherd". I know he was no collie, and he didn't match any of the others you listed; of those, an Old English is the closest, but he didn't have anywhere near as shaggy a coat, or hair over his eyes. He was mostly black, with white boots, chest, and stray markings. I wish now I had a picture of him around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:30 PM Do not know about Alsations. But while we're talking about problems, my dog started itching all the time. Finally I took him to the vet and she said he was allergic to his dog food. I've since been forced to buy dog food through the vet's office over the internet, and it costs a fortune. Is this a problem anyone is familiar with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: robomatic Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:34 PM Is a German Shepherd the same thing as an Alsation? Long wondered |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: bobad Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:27 PM "Maybe I'm being dense but what difference does it make if blue=grey and white=white when you're a dog? It's still distinguishing between colors..." If the dog were color blind it would see one as light the other as dark, I presume. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Becca72 Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:17 PM "Feeding the dog MSG or pumpkin is believed to give feces a bad taste, making it less attractive to the dog." but it already tastes like.....oh nevermind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Goose Gander Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:02 PM Why Does My Dog Eat Feces? - question answered by Theresa A. Fuess, Ph.D. The example of females and their pups makes sense, don't know about those other pooches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Becca72 Date: 13 Mar 09 - 02:38 PM "Having grown up with black % white TV, I know blue is grey and white is white." Maybe I'm being dense but what difference does it make if blue=grey and white=white when you're a dog? It's still distinguishing between colors... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Mar 09 - 01:40 PM Very interesting, John. That begins to explain why my youngest pointer (long since gone) could be perceived to watch television and apparently identify huntable animals, (rabbits, cats, etc, despite the difference in scale) on the TV screen even with the sound off. It was however hilarious to see her try to find the sound, sometimes... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: John Hardly Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:26 AM Dogs aren't color blind. Like most animals that a genetically predisposed to hunt in the twilight and dawn hours -- in low light, they have fewer (by percentage) cones than rods. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Megan L Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:41 AM Dogs are not smart - if they were they wouldnt live with humans |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,heric Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:35 AM Mine doesn't eat dog poo but at the nearby field where the geese hang out it's as if she's fallen into heaven with ju-jube candies sprinkled everywhere. I was horrified but all the other owners report the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Jeri Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:18 AM Having grown up with black % white TV, I know blue is grey and white is white. When my mother was little they had a dog that had a route. One time, my mom was really sick and needed medicine and her mother couldn't leave her. The sent the dog off with a note and carrying a little pail in its mouth. Its route included the small store where it always stopped for a visit. The woman at the store read the note, put the medicine in the dog's pail and the dog returned home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:17 AM Yes, coprophagous dogs are not uncommon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:02 AM I've never had a dog that ate its own, or another dogs poop. Maybe that how those little "Cats that bark" got their name..shit sues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Becca72 Date: 13 Mar 09 - 08:40 AM We thought the same, Richard, but he can definitely tell the difference. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:58 AM That's interesting Becca. I have always understood dogs to be colourblind. That bone must smell different! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Becca72 Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:29 AM My sister has had 3 "ornamental" pugs and all have been highly intelligent. The one she has now (Owen) is 3 years old and if you ask him to bring you his blue bone (as opposed to his white one which is identical in every other aspect) he will bring you the correct one 100% of the time. He is also one of the funniest dogs I've ever met. My Siberian Husky was also extremely smart but very mouthy and high-strung...true to the breed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Janie Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:08 AM Smartest dog? A good mutt! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:47 AM I have "borrowed" many dogs through the years .
I do not beleive I could tolerate a "stupid dog."
The most loving and dedicated and strong-willed (it jumped through a glass window - ripped apart one inch plank gates to get back into the yard it escaped and went one-on-one with automobiles more than once - and yet liked the dog-catcher so much it would jump into the truck when they opened the door - maybe it was the air-conditioning) was an American Pit Bull weighing in at a LEAN 88 pounds. VERY Smart - really understood two way communication with humans and invented its own "words" that it taught you....It knew most of the following - but did not play "MoJo Search" or climb ladders....or hang-loose.
But the absolute smartest Dog was a Retreiver/Black Lab/Chow mix....and reading the above list regarding 200 commands - I believe this one came close. I cannot recall them all. If someone said, "That's cool - but I have a friend whose dog can...." then that became the next month's lesson. There were no limits.
Every month I was inventing new stunts and new stories (aka patter) to go along with the performances. Hand-signal commands which the dog can see but someone else cannot are especially good with a twisted story (me? never!!!) and a "hang loose" finish to the story brought roars of laughter.
Of course Bear knew all the plebian routines that any respectable dog knows in their first two years:
But also the standard cool ones like:
And then the unusual:
A stupid dog is no pleasure. I have witnessed a smart cat completly flumix and infuriatate a dumb dog for hours until the cat would become bored and finish the torment with a claw across the poor beast's nose.
Dogs share a kinship with man that a cat would never tolerate.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: John Hardly Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:10 AM You left off Underdog and Snoopy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Nigel Parsons Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:04 AM 1, Lassie 2, Pickles 3, Rin Tin Tin 4, Timmy (Enid Blyton) 5, Huckleberry Hound 6, Droopy 7, Spike (Tom & Jerry) 8, Pluto 9, Deputy Dawg 10, Hong Kong Phooey |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: mandotim Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:00 AM I wonder if there is something here about hybrid vigour? Collies apart, the cleverest dogs I've come across have been mongrels of one sort or another. That said, I have a Jack Russell who displays real signs of intelligence. He's a working dog, a famous ratter in our area, and a genuine assassin who also catches a lot of rabbits (we're overrun with Bugs and his friends round here!). He's not really fast enough over the ground to catch an adult rabbit, but this is where the intelligence comes in. He's worked out that a rabbit will run a short distance, then jink either right or left when pursued. He actively gambles; he anticipates the change of direction, and jinks just before the rabbit does. If he guesses wrong the rabbit gets away. If not, RIP Bugs. He's also really good at obedience and agility classes, regularly winning prizes. (Although he won't do the 'little dogs' agility course, because like all Russells he considers himself a 'big dog'). I'm a psychologist by training, and he seems to demonstrate some cognitive ability when compared to my other dog, a Lakeland terrier who is as daft as a box of frogs. I suppose the question is always 'how much is breeding, how much is instinct, how much is handler-induced and how much is actual 'thinking'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Mar 09 - 05:05 AM Frogprince, there are several different British herding dogs - just a few of the better known Border Collie (only recently recognised by Kennel Club) Rough Collie (think "Lassie") Smooth Collie (aka English Cur") Shetland Collie Bearded Collie Old English Sheepdog ("Dulux Dog" - actually a livestock guard, not a herder) Lancashire Heeler Corgi (both types) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: katlaughing Date: 12 Mar 09 - 11:58 PM LOL...sure Spaw...my Merls might have some kinda psycho thing going on with food, but I've always thought that was like normal for all dogs, ya know?!**bg** heric, your shih tzu sounds like a smartie and a lot of fun! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,heric Date: 12 Mar 09 - 11:20 PM All of them eat fecal matter which has got to be a mental condition and in fact an evolutionary defect of some magnitude. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:27 PM Thank you Rig. Actually Weims generally come in around the 20 level but like Schnauzers they have a very "human" brain and are extremely needy of and wanting to give companionship. Which brings up something else dogs have which are mental conditions.....LOL.....True though. And they range from genetic problems as has been lately experienced with Springers to the Weimaraner problem with Separation Anxiety. I think that somewhere in the ratings they need to throw in the mental illness factor...............lol Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Riginslinger Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:12 PM The only reason weimerweiners weren't on the list is because they're too smart to test. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: bobad Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:09 PM Oh yeah, my border collie cross does the New York Times crossword puzzles, but only on the weekend, he finds the weekday ones too easy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: meself Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:03 PM I once had a springer-spaniel/border-collie cross - it was more intelligent than most people I know. It would have been able to beat me at a Rubick's cube any day of the week, except that the lack of an opposable thumb slowed him down. If I had only been able to afford to send him to university ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: kendall Date: 12 Mar 09 - 09:50 PM They have to have intelligence to start with before they can learn anything. If it lacks intelligence you can't teach it anything.The bottom of the list? Afghan hounds. Our Lab can tell time and he can count.He catches on quicker than any other dog I've had, except Clancy, my other Lab.My Beagle was dumber than a box of rocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: frogprince Date: 12 Mar 09 - 08:21 PM I grew up with a German shepherd-something cross who was born to herd cattle; I wasn't old enough to know how Dad trained him, but you told him to bring the cattle in fom the pasture, and it was done. We replaced him with an English shepherd pup, the only supposedly purebred dog we ever had (and the only dog we ever payed money for). Guaranteed to herd cattle. By the time we saw that he was never going to herd anything, he was a member of the family. We had to alter all the barn door latches, though; he soon became very adept at opening them, all on his own initiative. I have no idea if Dad lacked the right technique for teaching that dog to herd, or if it was just that dog. He (the dog) was always a good old buddy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,heric Date: 12 Mar 09 - 08:14 PM I feel the need to defend my shih tzu a little. I wanted another lab, but our house and yard are just too small, so we ended up with a shih tzu. Okay they keep pissing indoors for far too long, but. . . . I haven't bothered to train her to do tricks (and feel even guiltier for that after reading John Hardly), but there are many who will say you don't need to because they are so nice (and small). And this is where she amazes me – She is more LIKE a lab than I had ever anticipated, as her life is centered on pleasing you (me.) She plays non-stop, creatively – she likes to put things inside things, then use the larger item to carry the smaller item around. She likes to put things on top of things, then dig for them. She buries bones on walks, and always picks them up not one, but two days later. Lives to play soccer with the neighborhood kids – and she's a lot better than them. Smart or stupid – I really don't know. But with not nearly enough interaction/training by me, she ends up doing what I need, and she does seem to concentrate on that. (She may not be typical – people for blocks around know her as "The World's Friendliest Dog.") (ps. Yes I agree Golden retrievers are dumb as a box of rocks, but they so want to please you that they are easily trained.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: ranger1 Date: 12 Mar 09 - 08:07 PM Define intelligence. Golden retrievers are dumb as a box of rocks, but they so want to please you that they are easily trained. I'm also not sold on border collies being the smartest. Great instinct isn't necessarily intelligence, either. Our smartest dogs were all mutts, mostly of the terrier persuasion. Terriers can add two and two and come up with four, then figure out the cube root, all while telling off the dog down the street. And while I loved my Belgian Tervuren to pieces, he wasn't exactly the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. Beautiful instincts, incredibly devoted, not much in the way of brains. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Sorch Date: 12 Mar 09 - 07:50 PM Kendall, it's still all about HOW the trainer trains NEW TRICKS....you gotta adapt to the dog. and shit zus are pretty worthless, at least as dogs, IMO. Get a Lhasa Apso, a REAL one |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Mar 09 - 07:34 PM IMHO it is quite impossible to teach a Shitzu to do anything at all. Horrid creatures. First three on the list probably right, then I'd have put lab. I think Min poodles are usually brighter than standards. Belgian Shepherd (any type) could have been on there too, and while have no evidence I'd expect the Akbash and Karabash to be candidates. Other possibles might be Welsh and English Springers, and Irish Water Spaniels. I don't think the McNab is recognised by the Kennel Club. How about the bottom 10? I'll nominate Bonnie, my late Great Dane, any my stepdaughter's Otterhound as both unbelievably stupid. Oh, and my late friend Marianne's Shitzu that we dubbed a shitty-sue as it preferred to crap on her bathroom mat. Cassie (Hurwyn Calypso at Lokmadi) our first pointer bitch was very stupid, but her pup Puff (Germal Puff'n'Stuff) was very bright indeed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: kendall Date: 12 Mar 09 - 07:21 PM Spaw, why do you say, "Bull shit"? Is it because Dachunds are not on the list? hehehe I don't know about other Labs, but ours is smarter than some whole families. I judge intelligence according to how quickly they pick up a new trick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: GUEST,Sorch Date: 12 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM Thank you, John, you said it all so I don't need to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: katlaughing Date: 12 Mar 09 - 06:50 PM I am glad to see Border Collies came out on top, as usual, BUT they really need to consider listing the McNab separately. They are mistakenly called BCs, even by me because it's sometimes easier than explaining the differences. A McNab is as smart if not smarter and will do all the things a BC will do, BUT there the resemblance ends. They are slightly smaller, have shorter hair, do not bark for no reason or because everyone else is "doing it" AND they can lie around for hours waiting for their next "job" without any of the high energy/excitement associated with BCs. Our Merls did want to herd the cats until he realised it was a no-no and thankless job and he was grumbly with the grandson because he wasn't allowed to ride herd over him, but now he recognises him as an Important and Independent Soft-Touch Food Source, so all is sweetness and light now. I wrote THIS before Merlee was IDed by a vet as a McNab, but the description still fits. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: TRUBRIT Date: 12 Mar 09 - 06:45 PM They may not be smartest but bull mastifss (ie, mine - Asha) are the cutest......let's rephrase that -- they are NOT the smartest -- they are not in the top 100!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Ebbie Date: 12 Mar 09 - 06:13 PM I agree wholeheartedly with you, John, adding only that the desire to please you has to be paramount in a dog that you are training. Oh, and if the dog you are training has an inbred talent it's the easiest thing in the world to develop that skill. I've had a good many dogs and some of them were astonishingly perceptive and smart. Others were more 'normal', I suppose, although it is difficult to score normal. I have sometimes owned as many seven dogs at a time and have trained many dogs for other people. Dogs are a constant source of stories and just plain good fun and there haven't met many that I haven't liked. Right now, I have a Cairn Terrier, one of the really smart dogs I mention. (Probably the smartest dog I ever have had was a miniature poodle; on the other hand I had her longer than any other dog.) The one constant in 'making' smart dogs, I think, is talking to them. Meggie, my Cairn, zeroes in on my talking, listening to see if I am going to talk to her rather than to the cat or to other people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: John Hardly Date: 12 Mar 09 - 05:55 PM It's so funny to think back on it now (some thirty years later) but when I FIRST got a northern breed dog I was still under the twin mistaken notions -- notions that I believe are shared by MOST people outside the dog world, and even by many who have had a few pets (mostly mutts)... ...the twin notions: 1. It's only owner/handlers skill as trainers that dictate dog behavior 2. There is no difference (beyond physical appearance) between breeds. Those two notions are nonsense. The very things that northern breeds are bred for DEMAND that they be independent thinkers. In part, if you want a dog that will PULL, to some extent you need a dog willing to run AWAY from you. Retrieving is not a necessary part of northern breed behavior. We've had two mals who would naturally do it, and we've had four who would never dream of doing it on their own. "Why did you just throw that thing if you wanted it? And I'm the stupid one?" Northern breed dogs will often chase a toy -- especially if started as a game with a young dog. But that's just prey drive. Retrieval is different. My wife worked nearly an hour EVERY DAY for over two months with Aspen (our male malamute at the time) to get him to retrieve. Once she broke through, Aspen retrieved EVERY time on command (in fact, could do all the exercises in open obedience competition). Still, Aspen never saw retrieve as a game. Golden Retrievers are not "smarter" just because they excel at the obedience exercises. They excel at the obedience exercises because they are bred for behaviors that coincidentally match what we city-dwelling humans value in dog behavior. Goldens are compliant, not necessarily intelligent. Goldens suck at agility. You almost never see Goldens in agility competitions, and when you do, you are likely to observe that they don't score well. Agility demands more independence in a dog. Border Collies are a better blend of compliance and independence. Borders excel at both agility AND obedience. But just try to get a Border Collie to sit lovingly and calmly at your side as you read a book in the evening. Maybe when they are 8 years old or older they'll take on that kind of companionable behavior. And, of course, you will hear stories of anomalies. Malamutes who love children. Aggressive Goldens (becoming more and more common, actually), calm Border Collies (there is a group of breeders working on this). But even saying all this, you can probably teach a husky or a shit zu to do almost anything any other dog can do. In order to do so, you will need to invent new methods to teach an "unnatural" behavior to a dog. One well-known trainer – one of Dar's favorite authors, Connie Cleveland – says that you need to be more inventive in teaching than the dog is in avoiding learning. She says that you will know within MINUTES if a new strategy is working. If one strategy for teaching a dog a behavior doesn't work, you need to quickly move on to a new strategy. But the good news is that each behavior you teach a dog opens up your ability to further communicate with the dog. A well-hidden key to unlocking a particular behavior will often unlock other behaviors. It's the reason that teaching a dog "tricks" is not wasted time – even if those "tricks" appear to have no relationship to behaviors of competition or even behaviors that you want in order to make your dog fit better into the family. Learning to communicate with your dog is the biggest hurdle, but that communication tends to grow exponentially. And one day you turn around and realize that the dog that once seemed untrainable, seems to have learned to intuit what you want him to do. It's an amazing breakthrough realization. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Goose Gander Date: 12 Mar 09 - 05:47 PM Working dogs are generally more intelligent than 'ornamental' dogs (pugs, pomeranians, etc.) and certain dogs (cattle dogs, collies and shelties) nearly always make these lists for good reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Mar 09 - 04:57 PM Always interesting but you can find ten entirely different breeds on another list and even more as you add additional lists. Who sets the criteria and why? Note how heavy this list is on herding dogs. Yes, some are extremely intelligent but it depends on why you value that specific type of intelligence. Just as humans, dogs have different abilities by breed. I have friends who are extemely talented in one area or more that are truly at the genius level but are utter dolts in others. Dogs are much the same. Cute list. Bullshit but cute! Spaw |
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Subject: BS: Ten Smartest Dogs From: Goose Gander Date: 12 Mar 09 - 03:42 PM Ten Smartest Dogs according to PetMD . . . |
