What is a traditional singer?

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 02:00 PM

For want of any other response...

I think Maggie Sand makes a wonderful job of putting over traditional English songs. She is Mexican. I gather English is her third language after Spanish and French.

Love the song and it will work.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: JohnB
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 02:35 PM

I bet you EVERYTHING you sing is not totally Traditional.
Every "Trad" singer I have heard invariably does something that was written in recent living memory, by them or by other great "traditional style" writers.
So! do your own thing in your own way, if people like it and pay to listen to you (or at least don't throw things), you are doing something right.
JohnB.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:20 PM

'What is a traditional singer?'

Someone who sings 'what is folk' songs.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 07:41 PM

JohnB - damn right it isn't. Come to that, why should it be? Too much culture ends up in museums that way. People have been going into sense of humour failure for many years over this and similar issues. There are those where I live still clinging to the memories of long defunct purist clubs without it ever occurring to them to wonder why the club is long defunct.
An example - collector notes a song, warts and all from old body in Dorset workhouse. Being meticulous, the collector takes it down exactly as sung, jumbled verses, duff notes and all. Academic comes along and seeks to explain the strange tonality as myxolidian (or myxomatosis for all I know), and revivalist singer in "traditional" club sings the bloody thing exactly as noted down, with a narrative that makes no sense, strange accidentals in the music and dialect words and pronunciations that he doesn't understand. Who's the fool now?

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 05:14 PM

Well, me probably. I would not attempt to sing in dialect, but would keep a few words etc....to me narratives do not have to make sense, (that is part of the fun..singing something that we have absolutely no idea what it is..like being a doffing mistress or letting your davit tackle fall etc.) and dialect words are fine. I tend toward keeping to the original whatever it is and hate deliberate "folk processing" unless there is something that absolutely must go, such as hateful words etc. More than anything else I hate when genders are switched around on purpose..oh I am a girlie girl and I can't sing this song without making it from a female perspective..wrong..you can. mg

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM

Glad we cleared that up, then.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 10:31 AM

"I'm an American who has been doing traditional English songs for many years. Here's a concept: since the dominant culture in America (and in Australia) is English in origin"

Not in South America or Central America, I think you'll find that it's Spanish and native indian!

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: mg
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM

What about French and Portugese? And here..the dominant language is English but we certainly have had huge German and Scandinavian populations historically. Is Wisconsin part of America? mg

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 01:01 PM

> Who's the fool now? <

Someone who thinks we should switch all those lovely modal melodies back to boring old major (sorry, ionian)?

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 07:22 PM

Try to be patient with an old man, Brian. The point I was failing to make is that the songs that have come down to us are frequently a long way from the "originals", either by the natural processes of oral transmission, duff transcription, sheer laziness or misconception. The older tonalities are indeed lovely; the perpetuation of frankly eccentric variations brought about by a collector writing down what he heard from an oldster losing the tune is less so. It's a thin line to tread - Beethoven suffered from the reverse of it when copyists altered a crashing discord because "he surely didn't mean that..." Same goes for words that don't make sense. When the song was written, the odds are it would have made perfect sense as the person making the song would have been likely to be involved in the subject or narrative. As to hateful words which "absolutely must go", they are part of the song, and a lesson in how we regarded our fellow man at the time, perhaps even a warning to us now. I would sooner not sing the song than Bowdlerise it or wilfully cause offence. To be honest though, I think it's disrespectful to your audience to sing things you frankly don't understand, especially when you can find out what a doffing mistress did in about five minutes on Google.
I enjoy researching the songs and music (no shit, Sherlock), others have no time for it - it's my passion, but it ain't the end of the world. Mind you, I did draw the line when somebody asked me how I was spelling skillimarinkidoorium...

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: John P
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 10:24 PM

Sorry, when I wrote "American" I meant "a person from the United States". I'm not usually so lazy. I wasn't trying to say that there aren't any other cultures flourishing in the United States. Heavens, I'm falling headlong into the Seattle Scando community even as we speak. I was just saying that the dominant culture, language, and laws -- and a lot of our folk traditions -- are British in origin. More importantly for our purposes, many of the songs and rhymes I learned as a kid started in England.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Tangledwood
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 06:18 AM

"What is a traditional singer?"

One born before 1954?



"Re "pom"

My mate Kevin, from Adelaide, told me pohm (his spelling) comes from Prisoner Of Her Majesty, which was stenciled on convicts clothes as Sugwash says. True or not (and Kevin is a spectacular liar), I like this explanation because of the subtle twist built into it: once Australia set up shop as an independent nation, they could laugh at the Brits who were, still, Prisoners Of Her Majesty.

Jerry "


That's the explanation that seems most credible to me though the pomegranate one also gets an airing. Think it would have been HIS Majesty though.

Azizi - I was born in UK, now naturalised Aussie, so an ex-Pom. I've never regarded it as a derogatory term and have only had it used as such against me once - by a kid at school 40 years ago. (I got my own back a few years later, actually by not doing anything but that's another story).

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 10:41 AM

`elp. Some rotten swine `as `alf inched my post! If anyone finds my story about a bloke I knew called Fred `oo taught trad signing up at that EFDSS, give us a shout. I `ad security cameras fitted to the cab the other day but they `aven`t worked. It`s a sad day when a fella `as to `unt around for `is bits and pieces `cos of some light-fingered punter.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 11:37 AM

I find that singing through the mouth is very traditional. Although talking through the arse is a getting there...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 01:37 PM

Well, there is your actual contemporary evidence for 'pommy grant', and there's sod-all evidence for 'POHM'. But it's up to you.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 01:26 PM

"Pommy. A newcomer from Britain. from England: Australian: C. 20. OED. Sup. records it at 1916, but it was current before the Great War. Origin obscure; possibly a corruption of TOMMY IMPORTED by Australian soldiers returning the Boer War (1899-1902). Or perhaps Pomeranian, a very 'superior' sort of dog. It may also have developed from GRANT thus: Jimmy Grant > granate > pomegranate > pommy."

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 03:16 PM

>> Try to be patient with an old man, Brian. The point I was failing to make is that the songs that have come down to us are frequently a long way from the "originals", either by the natural processes of oral transmission, duff transcription, sheer laziness or misconception. <<

Quite so, VB. The songs as notated are mere snapshots of an ever-changing reality, and sometimes not even very accurate ones. But my impression is that revivalists have always been more likely to fill out sketchy texts, than to preserve them unaltered for the sake of 'authenticity'. As for the tunes, there is a real debate to be had about dealing with old MS material: whether or not you 'correct' apparent errors in notation, which itself carries the risk of rationalizing interesting old tunes according to modern sensibilities.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:40 PM

Very interesting thread. And we need the labels because?   I am throughly confused now because according to a previous definition I am both a traditional singer because I have songs in my repetoire that have come to me from the oral tradition while also being a singer of traditional song.

And while I'm here can I just say a big thank you to Brian Peters who came very kindly to the traditional singing workshop I was attempting to run on Sunday and allowed himself to be used as a combination of powerpoint, reference book and working example. It made it much more fun for our singers.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:53 PM

Ho, hum.

According to Alan Rose's review in the Living Tradition of a recording I made about 10 years ago (including a John Warner song), I am not a folksinger but someone who sings folk songs.

And I love singing Kitty Kane and Anderson's Coast too!

Kitty

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:57 PM

Kitty I read that review and thought, you're in good company, Martin Carthy doesn't consider himself a folk singer either, he considers himself a singer of traditional songs.

Keep singing!

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:11 PM

Rifleman - yes, well, that figures because Martin Carthy arrived on the folk scene after singing as a chorister. I just sang in school choirs and fell into singing folksongs and improvising harmonies when a friend took me along to my local folk club when I was in my O-level year.

And I am still singing and running song sessions for other people who want to sing, eg at Chippenham (later this month) and Sidmouth (in August) festivals!

Kitty

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:13 PM

As I recall neither does Heather Heywood and we know how good she is!!!!!! I sometimes think the need for labels is a harking back to the Victorians who loved to have every thing put into catagories, all very neat and tidy but real life isn;t like that. The most important thing for me is that we keep singing the songs and acknowledging the sources

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:25 PM

1.Someone who doesnt write his own material.
2.someone who doesnt sound like Peter Pears.
3.Someone who doesnt sound like either Barry Manilow or George Melly.
4.someone who doesnt use heavy metal type guitar accompaniment.
so style comes in to it,and also material.
what is debatable as regards labelling is how the material was learned.
many feel it has to be learned aurally in an unbroken chain from members of a community.
so where does that leave singers who have learned aurally from you tube,are they traditional singers or are they only traditional singers if they have learned the song from a recording of a source singer such as Phil Tanner,or do they have to learn a song from an existing traditional singer such as Bob Lewis,and are they they then disqualified from being a traditional singer,unless they learned it in his physical presence.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:36 PM

Style is also important. I am laid back to the point of being comatose but that just how I sing sometimes, especially with ballads, you are telling a story, I suppose its a sort of less is more approach

As for the learning of songs, well, we are so lucky now to have so many at ways at our disposal but the most personal and the nicest, I have found is directly from another singer. I have songs I have collected from another singer, because I;ve liked them (the songs) they became personal to me and to sing them is to honour the person you got them from

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:40 PM

Ah, Diva, that takes us on a whole new track.... sometimes you hear a singer, and then pick up from their version who they learnt it from! (Eg Sheath and Knife - June Tabor, Tony Rose)

Kitty

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:45 PM

absolutely Kitty.......mine came from Cy Laurie and he got it from McColl and then you know you are an anorak when you start collecting other versions

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 08 May 09 - 05:04 AM

"I just sang in school choirs and fell into singing folksongs and improvising harmonies ..."

A typical British Traditional Singer would probably not 'improvise harmonies' - unless, of course, he was a member of the Copper Family.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 08 May 09 - 05:31 AM

They seek him here, they seek him there but can't find the noble savage anywhere. So they imagine how he'd sound if he existed and all agree to do the same. As long as nobody squeals, it kinda works.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 08 May 09 - 09:06 AM

I was going to stay out of this thread in order to avoid being sucked into yet another Battle of 1954 slugfest (any attempt to define 'traditional' is going to cover a lot of the same ground as defining 'folk'), but I thought I'd like to say hello to Diva. I won't break her cover, since she chooses a nom de plume on this forum, but she is an excellent singer well worth hearing, and it was a pleasure to join her workshop.

Diva wrote: "And we need the labels because?   I am throughly confused now because according to a previous definition I am both a traditional singer because I have songs in my repetoire that have come to me from the oral tradition while also being a singer of traditional song".

I'd say that we don't need labels in order to *sing*, but they are helpful in discussing concepts and history. To me the 'Folk Revival' of the 1950s onwards was and is a very different beast (self-conscious, largely middle class, partly commercial) from the community-based song transmission that once existed in parallel with (but largely separated from) it, that is now pretty well defunct - in England, at least.

In a former era there were plenty of opportunites - at family get-togethers, in pubs, in workplaces - for ordinary people to sing. Those are now gone, so for a singer like Diva who has learned part of her repertoire through her family (and could fairly claim to be a 'traditional singer' if she so desired) the best places to go in 2009 to sing, to hear songs, and to meet people with the same interests, are going to be mostly folk clubs and festivals. Same goes for traditional singers like the late Fred Jordan (a festival regular), and also Jeff Wesley, a frequent visitor to his local folk club in Northampton, whose repertoire includes an Appalachian version of 'The Devil's Nine Questions' that he probably did not learn from local farmworkers.

My Gran and various other family members in Wales sang a version of 'Cosher Bailey's Engine' ('Did you ever see....?'), which learned people classify as a folk song. Does that make me a 'traditional singer'? Does it heck! I got interested in the music via commercial folk-rock bands, and learned my repertoire from recordings and books. I'm happy to be a singer of old songs, but prefer to keep 'traditional singer' for the likes of Phil Tanner or Lizzie Higgins.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 May 09 - 09:21 AM

What is a traditional singer?

I feel the question to be somewhat ambiguous, & therefore needs some breakdown to define specifics, thus:

What is a traditional singer?

- Someone who traditionally sings?

What is a traditional singer?

- Someone who sings in a traditional style?


What is a traditional singer?

- Someone who sings items deemed by third parties to be traditional?


What is a traditional singer?

- Someone who is expected to sing because they do it habitually?


What is a traditional singer?

- Someone who sings,generally without instrumental accompaniment?

**********

There's probably more ways of disambiguating the question, but just now no more spring to mind.

Anyone have more?

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 09 - 09:38 AM

I agree to some extent Brian,I prefer it if people came to see me because they thought I was a good singer,if Ihave to be labelled I would prefer the following description;singer of traditional and contemporary material,who accompanies himself with guitar and concertina.
to me it is not of importance to be described[on folk club leaflets] either as Revival, Source or Traditional.all that matters in these circumstances is the material and the accompanying instruments.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 May 09 - 01:23 PM

I am in complete accord with Brian. I learnt many songs from my grandparents, mother and uncles who had markedly different repertoires of traditional songs. However, I came to learn them after I had already become an active participant in the 'Folk Scene'. Indeed it was the 'Folk Scene' that inspired me to revive the family songs. For the vast majority of the people on the British 'Folk Scene'
for the last 50 years 'traditional singer' has always been used to refer to performers who came from a singing community other than the 'Folk Scene' albeit a farming community, fishing community etc.
However, more recently and increasingly I have heard the term 'source singer' used in the same way. Just as the term 'folk song' has evolved to encompass a wider meaning, it appears 'traditional singer' has confused some people (evidence above)and seems to be evolving a wider definition.
Like Brian, I will continue my practice of 40 years or so and continue to call 'source singers' 'traditional singers' and if that confuses anyone, I will expand on it quite happily.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 08 May 09 - 01:46 PM

Indeed, Steve. However there are problems with 'source singer' as well, in that (a) some enthusiasts for traditional song feel that it reduces singers to mere repositories of repertoire, rather than actual people, and (b) I've already seen the argument advanced in this forum that anyone whose song is learned by another person is by definition a 'source singer'. Seems to me some folk don't like any kind of definitions at all. But however much we pull apart terms like 'folk', 'traditional' or 'source', in the end we still need some way of differentiating Kate Rusby from Queen Caroline Hughes (names chosen at random and non-judgementally) if we're going to discuss the performance of traditional song.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 09 - 02:03 PM

Steve,thats the problem,it can mean any community,so why not the Internet community?
if someone learns a song via youtube from a source singer,that makes them a traditional singer or source singer.
what is more important is not the labelling, but the performance ,and the absorption and continuity of style,and that people still sing traditional songs.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 08 May 09 - 08:13 PM

Thank you for the kind words Brian both for my singing and the workshop. I always worry that in workshop situations I am just wittering on. All I know is I love singing these ballads and I love hearing other singers who, like yourself and Tim (Lyons) share this passion for the auld sangs.

But the good thing is these threads make you think! I came to this music initially through Steeleye Span, heard them on the radio then bought the albums which I still have and then moved on to the hardcore unaccompanied singer through my involvement with Kilmarnock Folk Club and I consider myself privelleged in the extreme to have heard so many singers both source and revival over the years.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 May 09 - 09:26 AM

I came to this music initially through Steeleye Span... and then moved on to the hardcore unaccompanied singer

With me it's the other way round. Having managed to avoid most UK Folk Rock over the past 40 years, I'm now giving an ear to such things in the spirit of perverse curiosity. I can't say I'm too impressed, but it is informative as to understanding a good deal of what I've heard sung as traditional in folk clubs over the years, be it terms of style, source & vocal affectation. Right now I'm listening to a double CD set compiling Steeleye Span's first three albums - a nice way to pass a cold, rainy, windy afternoon in Fleetwood, but afterwards I'll be reaching for Camembert Electrique as an antidote.

The Captain spoke earlier of the continuity of style. I wonder, whither the provenance of this style? And to what extent can style itself be considered traditional, especially in a post-traditional culture such as our own, where even the term Folk Singer is oft disputed along the lines of the you are not a folk singer; you are a singer of folk songs; there is a difference and we should care about it variety? Elsewhere I argued that Folk Song and Traditional Song were in no way synonymous, and that whilst Folk Song was largely a matter of context, Traditional Song transcends context, and could (and has) made the transition into areas of pop, rock, classical & experimental musics without any loss to its essence which exists irrespective of the stylistic assumptions, or indeed affectations, of Folk Music.

No real point, just in listening to these early Steeleye Span recordings I can maybe see where it all came from. But where's it all heading?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOIW4x3uD28

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: BB
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:27 AM

"whilst Folk Song was largely a matter of context, Traditional Song transcends context, and could (and has) made the transition into areas of pop, rock, classical & experimental musics without any loss to its essence which exists irrespective of the stylistic assumptions, or indeed affectations, of Folk Music."

Interesting - I would have said the absolute opposite, traditional song being defined largely by context, and folk song being used in the many ways you describe above.

Barbara

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 May 09 - 01:23 PM

"whilst Folk Song was largely a matter of context, Traditional Song transcends context, and could (and has) made the transition into areas of pop, rock, classical & experimental musics without any loss to its essence which exists irrespective of the stylistic assumptions, or indeed affectations, of Folk Music.
I do not agree.in most cases IMO it loses its essence,and that includes Peter Pears singing the water is wide, Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention doing their thing.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:49 AM

I do not agree.in most cases IMO it loses its essence,and that includes Peter Pears singing the water is wide, Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention doing their thing.

But what about Peter Bellamy doing his thing, or indeed Dick Miles doing his? I find both approaches deeply appealing (& indeed inspirational) but to what extent this is a manifestation of a traditional style per se, I remain at a loss to say. Certainly, when I listen to traditional singers I'm not picking up much by way of a stylistic consensus, certainly not to the extend the revival would have us believe there ever was such a thing.

A question therefore for all singers of Traditional Folk Song, on what sources, influences & inspirations do you base your own personal style?

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:29 AM

Jacqui McShee more than Maddy Prior; Shirley Collins more than Anne Briggs. Nic Jones singing Lord Bateman, not Nic Jones singing the Bonny Bunch of Roses. Tony Capstick singing unaccompanied, hitting every bar line. John Kelly's relentless Valiant Sailor.

Keep it simple - keep the tone pure, nail the metre and the beat (not that you can't pull it out of shape sometimes). Then make the words live. The words should be doing something, not just hanging on the melody like wet washing - but the melody should be there underneath.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:32 AM

This is, of course, in reply to SS's question just above, not the OP - in other words, I'm describing what I try to do, no more than that.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:52 AM

"A question therefore for all singers of Traditional Folk Song, on what sources, influences & inspirations do you base your own personal style?"

That's a question I've been asking myself, as I never listened to any folk music until recently - and after I began singing traditional songs. And I've only been singing traditional songs since last Hallowe'en I think. I did know a bit of Pentangle from many years ago, but I couldn't and don't aspire to sound like Jacqui McShee.

Nevertheless, I'm aware of that there is some vocal affectation of sorts in my singing, albeit quite unconsciously adopted. And I've been wondering about why I sing these traditional folk songs in the way I do?

To a degree, the antiquated language alters ones mind-set, and may contribute to a degree of 'theatre' perhaps. Whether one realises it or no it's akin to wearing an historic costume and adopting a 'part'. This has some effect on me I think, and suspect that plays itself out in the way I sing.

One thing that I'm conscious of, rather akin to choral perhaps, is that I like to enunciate the consonants fairly clearly (though not as terribly crisply as choral) - in part because these are stories and each word I feel needs to be clear to the listener. This is an affectation as I wouldn't speak the G in 'lonG' for example, but I would sing it for clarity. Consonants often open and close words - enunciated consonants I think aid the listener to identify each word clearly. They also add a degree of 'percussive rythm' to something sung unaccompanied.

I am also aware of shaping vowel sounds when singing, slightly differently to the way I might speak them, to adapt them for ease of sound production - so I might sing (for e.g. 'Uuhnd' instead of 'aaaaynd' - it's less stressful on the throat and conserves breath. Certain vowels, if I were to sing exactly as spoken, both sound ugly and do not assist one in moving smoothly to the next syllable. So I wouldn't sing "I" as (as an extended note) exactly as I would speak it because it'd sound like braying, but perhaps lean more heavily on the 'eeee' sound (that is usually clipped in speech) so sung it might come out more like Ah'ee.

Any ornamenation picked up has probably been the consequence of listening to recordings made by others, as well as allowing my voice to 'sculpt' the song by itself.

But it's a tough question to answer overall.

All that said, the accent I sing in is my own - I think!

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 11 May 09 - 07:00 AM

These arguments have only emerged since the middle classes nicked the tradition. Before then there'd have been no need to quibble and the people would have understood.
Now it's just another pissing contest to replace golf club bragging rights but with more hair.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 May 09 - 07:14 AM

why not Nic Jones singing the Bonny Bunch of roses,I am mystified,please pm me.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 May 09 - 08:25 AM

.......sings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_pop_music??

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: BobKnight
Date: 11 May 09 - 08:57 AM

Too many definitions - it's all poop - just sing the bloody songs. I can think of very few people who would pass this measure of who is, or isn't, a traditional singer. All from my home town, Aberdeen. Jeannie Robertson, Stanley Robertson, Lizzie Higgins and from Blairgowrie, Sheila Stewart. There are obviously more throughout the UK, but these are the ones I know who have had the songs passed down orally. Half of those mentioned have passed on, and there were many more I knew of in my youth, Belle Stewart, Alec Stewart,Davie Stewart (The Galoot), my own grandmother, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 11 May 09 - 11:02 AM

I am in complete agreement with Hawkerladdie when he says "just sing the bloody songs" but remember Bob, some folk just need the labels and it is SUPPOSED to make it easier to define for the purposes of those who need to clarify where these songs and singers have come from.

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Diva
Date: 11 May 09 - 11:13 AM

Mind you I've just been described as a "traditon bearer" I just thought it meant old!!!!!!

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: Gedi
Date: 12 May 09 - 08:13 AM

I too am in agreement with Hawker Laddie in "just sing the bloody songs".

I tend naturally to sing songs in the way I learned them (heard them) so therefore I sometimes sing in an accented fashion, not to try to be Scottish or Irish or whatever, but simply because thats how I learned them. Now I'm going to feel *very* self concious about some of the songs I do and that I think will only detract from the song and/or the performance.

I can see how someone who adopts say an American accent and tries to sing everything in that accent might sound silly, but on the other hand, to try and sing say Parcel of Rogues in my native Wiganese would sound downright stupid.

All in all I think I'll just carry on as I was.

cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: What is a traditional singer?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 May 09 - 08:26 AM

In England, and many another land, UNACCOMPANIED is surely the key-word here, me tradies.