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Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs

Sleepy Rosie 16 Mar 09 - 04:50 PM
JWB 16 Mar 09 - 05:25 PM
ranger1 16 Mar 09 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,PeterC 16 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM
BobKnight 16 Mar 09 - 05:48 PM
Sleepy Rosie 16 Mar 09 - 05:52 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 16 Mar 09 - 05:53 PM
peregrina 16 Mar 09 - 05:54 PM
katlaughing 16 Mar 09 - 06:00 PM
Nick 16 Mar 09 - 06:04 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM
Sleepy Rosie 16 Mar 09 - 06:13 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 09 - 06:15 PM
Richard Bridge 16 Mar 09 - 06:54 PM
Bill D 16 Mar 09 - 07:28 PM
RTim 16 Mar 09 - 07:40 PM
Deckman 16 Mar 09 - 07:47 PM
Howard Jones 16 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM
Jack Blandiver 16 Mar 09 - 07:58 PM
Gibb Sahib 16 Mar 09 - 10:35 PM
Ross Campbell 16 Mar 09 - 10:35 PM
Fidjit 17 Mar 09 - 04:46 AM
GUEST,Will Fly, on the hoof 17 Mar 09 - 05:02 AM
GUEST,Russ 17 Mar 09 - 12:31 PM
JohnB 17 Mar 09 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Linnea 17 Mar 09 - 03:15 PM
greg stephens 17 Mar 09 - 04:07 PM
Art Thieme 17 Mar 09 - 04:41 PM
Art Thieme 17 Mar 09 - 05:18 PM
Kent Davis 17 Mar 09 - 08:23 PM
Jack Blandiver 18 Mar 09 - 06:17 AM
GUEST,Timo_Tuokkola 18 Mar 09 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,squeezeboxhp at work 18 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM
Goose Gander 18 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 18 Mar 09 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,Russ 18 Mar 09 - 12:42 PM
Stringsinger 18 Mar 09 - 02:37 PM
r.padgett 18 Mar 09 - 03:33 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 09 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,PeterC 18 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM
Barry Finn 18 Mar 09 - 08:18 PM
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Subject: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 04:50 PM

Err, simply that really.
Where do people experience exposure to traditional songs?

I'm curious as to where people get exposure 'in the world' to traditional songs? Without necessarily actively seeking them out in the form of dedicated folk clubs and suchlike.

I guess I'm still perplexed at to how come I never encountered traditional English folk and unacommpanied singing in particular, until late last Winter...
My fault? Or are there questions begging?

I have a feeling I may be asking the wrong community though!
Here goes...


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: JWB
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:25 PM

Sleepy Rosie,

I sense that you're actually asking two different questions: 1) where might you hear a song that's considered traditional, and 2) where might you hear traditional singing?

Traditional songs and tunes show up everywhere, from movies, TV, concert halls, buskers, coffeehouses, YouTube, the radio, etcetera, etcetera. The Norman Luboff Choir recorded traditional songs. Symphony orchestras play traditional melodies composers have worked into orchestral pieces. Rockers cover traditional blues.

To hear traditional singing, tho, you've got to go looking, as your experience seems to indicate. Here in the US, you'd have to wander into a bar that featured folk musicians, or pass a street musican, or stumble across a music festival in a park. Traditional singers are pretty thin on the ground, as they say, so chances are small you'd just haply encounter one.

In England, I always thought there were traditional singers in every pub, so I can't imagine how you missed 'em (unless you're a teetotaler :0).

Now that you've found it, what do you think of it?

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: ranger1
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:37 PM

Growing up, my French-Canadian grandfather used to sing to me all the time and whenever there were family gatherings on my dad's side of the family, there was always music. Other than in my own family, I didn't come across a whole lot until I graduated from high school and went actively looking for live folk music. Now, after having joined Mudcat and met a lot of 'catters in my area, I get frequent exposure to folk music. So, I guess, in my long-winded reply, you're not alone. Hard to find sometimes unless you know where to look.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM

Which sessions fall into the "dedicated" part and which don't? Walter Pardon used to go to his local folk club in North Walsham.

I can remember singing in bars 40 years ago, anything from Wild Rover to Rolling Stones numbers. These days I might not be going to the right bars any more or everything is just more organised or maybe a bit of both.

There is plenty of folk music broadcast outside of dedicated folk programming. You can stumble on some gems when listening to Radio 3.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: BobKnight
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:48 PM

Go to www.footstompin.com which is a Scottish website selling CD's, Books, etc. However, there are usually a few sample snippets from every CD on sale. For REAL traditional singing try Jeannie Robertson, Sheila Stewart, Lizzie Higgins - all travelling people, but there are hundreds of CD's on this site - it may take some time.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:52 PM

"There is plenty of folk music broadcast outside of dedicated folk programming. You can stumble on some gems when listening to Radio 3.

PeterC, are you aware just how 'niche', Radio 3 actually is, when considering a 'wider' audience'?

I've always been eclectic, yet even though I've dabbled in Radio 3 over the years, it's like just never been my scene man...
I hope that you get my point, and don't take that as a dig a R3, which in fact I like on and off, mood depending on the year (or indeed decade at hand), though don't bother with a lot.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:53 PM

right this minute I'm listening to Three-Handed Reel / Much Wenlock Dance from the Ashley Hutchings recording, Rattlebone and Ploughjack

oh and a folk singer in every pub? Now there's a stereotype of England if ever I heard one


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: peregrina
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:54 PM

Or try this, if you are willing to consider cyberspace and your computer's speakers as transmitters of tradition:
the Yorkshire Garland Website --you can browse by theme, singer, keyword, place names and so on and then listen to a recording and print out words, dots and provenance notes.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:00 PM

In recent times: local indie radio stations, KAFM and KVNF, both available online with very eclectic shows and mixes; hober radio which is online; youtube; various other online radio stations, plus, one of my fav.places: www.pandora.com which will mix you up a batch of just about any kind of music you'd like. Put in a song title, artist's name, etc. and it will sort and play. You get to give it thumbs up or down so that it plays only what you like AND each title played shows up with a clickable link to learn more, purchase CDs, etc.

My main source, though, has been Mudcat, esp. Mudcat Radio and the Song circles we used to have in HearMe and then, PalTalk. Through Mudcat, I have also added to my CD collection with a myriad of songs, tunes, styles, etc.

Growing up from my family...music all of the time, all kinds.:-)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Nick
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:04 PM

Music section of local library

Napster

Songs sung at School (long time ago)

Radio a bit


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM

In our lounge mostly....... come round, have a beer and join in, you'd be very welcome!

Paul


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:13 PM

Don't make offers lightly Banjiman!
I might just be likely to take you up on them ;-)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:15 PM

You'd be very welcome!

Plenty do.......


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 06:54 PM

It is now mostly in the specialist environment although Romany Man tells me that he still sometimes finds Romany songs round a campfire at a gathering.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:28 PM

Traditional songs are like many activities that you no longer find in every household.... you must find a locus. Go where folks gather to share them. (sometimes this requires travel) It is possible for one to be lucky and live near where 'trad' still happens in homes, but this is usually small, rural areas.
   I had heard some where I grew up, because a 'few' groups/singers were featured by my school and a local bar/restaurant had a 'folk night'.

   Then, when I moved to Wash. DC, I assumed there must be a folk group, and I went looking....and found the FSGW, one of the largest groups in the USA where 'traditional' music was still followed. Once you know just a few people, you learn where else to go.......and, Rosie, unlike me in 1961, you now have the WWW and Mudcat to be one of those centers of information.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: RTim
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:40 PM

In My Head...
In My House...
On my Stereo..
In My Car..
At Concerts..
From My Friends...

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:47 PM

I find it CONSTANTLY in our house in Everett. Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM

If you mean traditional songs sung by folk revival singers, then there's plenty about, although you may have to do some research to find it as it may not be advertised in the mainstream media. The internet is a great help - in the past most advertising was done at other folk clubs or by word of mouth, so you had to already be in the loop, now most clubs, sessions and singarounds can be found on line.

If you mean traditional songs from genuine source singers, then that's more difficult. Unless you can find a festival which features them (there are some) then it's either a matter of luck, or finding someone who already has a knowledge of where they can be found. Of course there are plenty of recordings, try Topic or Veteran for example.

Sadly, the days when traditional singers could be found in every pub are long gone.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 07:58 PM

I swear I heard a Blackbird singing My Favourite Things earlier; which isn't a traditional song, though it is a jazz standard, which is pretty similar. Otherwise, in the real world you can go a very long time without encountering folk in any form, let along trad.

Or are there questions begging?

I do believe there are. As I recall, this was a good thread in that respect: Bertsongs?


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 10:35 PM

Every time it's my birthday.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 10:35 PM

Just this evening, "Gangs of New York" on TV produced "An Unconstant Lover" amongst drifts of what sounded like traditionalish banjo and other tunes.

I occasionally find traditional songs lurking in people I never suspected of singing anything. Iain is married to a friend of a friend. His wife and daughter live in dread of him breaking into "The Sow Song" (complete with bangs and whistles) at some unsuspecting social gathering. I may well encourage him to do so the next chasnce I get. If I take a print-out of the DigiTrad versions for comparison purposes, would this legitimise my plan?

Ross


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Fidjit
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:46 AM

Rosie
What a sheltered life you must have led up to a year ago.

If we knew exactly the area where you are I'm sure there's folks on here could point you in the right direction.

Chas


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Will Fly, on the hoof
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 05:02 AM

I took Rosie's post to exclude clubs, as such, and to be dealing with casual, unstudied exposure to traditional music. In a sense the question might be: is there still an "oral" tradition where one could, if he or she wished, pick up a tune or a song without going to a specialist venue.

Well, when I was a kid, it was music at my paternal grandparents' house - often around their piano on a Saturday night. My maternal grandfather, I have to say, was a well-loved but wicked old man. When I was about 5 or 6, he got me to learn a song to sing in front of the family in the early evening - it was my mother's birthday. So, to the tune of "The Sailor's Hornpipe", in front of all the family, I innocently sang:

Tiddleywinks, old man - get a woman if you can.
If you can't get a woman, then you'll have to get a man.
When the Rock of Gibraltar takes a flying leap at Malta,
You will never catch your bollocks in a corn beef can."


Mum was not amused, but I believe there was a twitch in my father's face - Granddad, of course, roared with laughter. I recalled the song again last year and sang it once more to my Mum - this time she was in the 7th year of being in a care home with dementia, not speaking or moving. So I sang her the song - and saw a definite twitch in her face...

The song, I believe, was a serviceman's song from the WW1 - my grandfather was in the RAMC (Royal Army Service Corps - jocularly known as Rob All My Comrades).

So - you can hear songs passed on by word of mouth in the weirdest circumstances! :-)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 12:31 PM

In the states, for "source singers", a.k.a, "the real thing"
try venues like Vocal Week at Augusta, Traditional Song Week at Swannanoah, the WV State Folk Festival, etc.

Russ (Permanent GUEST and traditional singer)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: JohnB
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 02:41 PM

Join a "Morris" side.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Linnea
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 03:15 PM

My mother and particularly my granparents sang songs to me all the time. Aside from growing up in it, you'll sometimes hear them if you listen to NPR or sometimes in cafe's/restaurants (particularly on St. Patrick's Day.)

You may have encountered a folk festival, but I've found that most people either already know they're happening or already have an interest and have gone looking.

Folk songs I think are also often found in elementary school music classrooms (if you're lucky enough to have a school that offers music before middle school.)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:07 PM

Traditional singing (as opposed to revivalists singing traditional songs in folk clubs or whatever)is not an easy thing to find in England. There is a still a fair amount of carol singing in the old style to be found. South Yorkshire is noted for it, though there are other places. bAS regards your actual good old boy singing "As I roved out on sweent May morning" over a pint in the corner at the Dog and Partridge. Well, that is pretty rare nowadays, though not unknown. And of course difficult sometimes to disentagle the real from the ersatz, as the 60's revivalists are looking like good old bopys now(you can generally spot them because they sing in those funny "folky" voice, the traditionasl singers never did).
To find that real thing, you need luck and patience, or to have a good native guide.
Perhaps the purest survival of the old traditional singing is found in hunting circles in the north, where people have been singing the old songs since the year dot, quite untroubled by the folk revival. There was a hunt supper singing competition a couple of weeks back in the south Lakes. No need to be more specific. Prizes for best hunting song, best sentimental song, best story and best lie. Now that was real hardcore traditional singing. And, regretfully, it has to be said that the old singers are not being replaced as they die, or not at present anyway.
    And hunting songs don't really tend to suit the modern folkie. Hunting with dogs has been banned by parliament, for a start (Cyanide gassing is still permitted of course, encouraged even, but that hasn't generated much traditional song yet, but it's early days).
So, basically, your actual traditioinal song is hard, but not impossible to find in England. Recordings, of course, are plentiful.
Traditional tune playing: in the far north, it never died out.In the south it was mostly revived. But the interaction between the tradition and the revival was easier and closer, and therefore less analysable, in the world of tunes than it was when considering folk singing: that's another whole area.
For example,I would not regard myself as a traditional singer really, though I learned a lot of songs in places nothing to do with the revival. I think I probably am a traditional player, though I got most of my tunes out of books. It's a complicated area (as threads on Mudcat will testify).


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:41 PM

Russ,
Did you notice that amazing photo on the front cover of the Swannanoa Workshops catalogue of classes offered etc.?

The photo is of a vest on a fellow with the outline of an acoustic guitar made of a couple hundred bits of musical tack--as in tie tack. Guitars, banjos, dulcimers, fiddles, zithers, harmonicas, mandolins, music company logos, cajun acccordians, and MORE.

Anyhow, I loved it!

Art


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 05:18 PM

To answer the question in the title of this thread:

Make a close friend of someone steeped in it. Those good folks won't steer you wrong. If your lucky, they'll point out that tradition actually means a process by which songs and aspects of cultures come from there and then to here and now. Record companies like Smithsonian Folkways, and Folk Legacy, and Tradition have words in their names that are dead giveaways that what you'll find there will be two thirds traditional music--- AT LEAST 2/3.

Art


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Kent Davis
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 08:23 PM

A few more places to "get exposure 'in the world' to traditional songs" are:
1. by a cradle - parents singing lullabys tend to choose traditional songs: thread.cfm?threadid=11512
2. in a worship service thread.cfm?threadid=64712#1059705
3. at a vacation bible school thread.cfm?threadid=104255#2132416
4. on a playground thread.cfm?threadid=104149#2128975
5. at a summer camp thread.cfm?threadid=109018#2274236

Kent


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 06:17 AM

Mostly, I hear them in my heart. Last night I even heard one in my dreams, maybe because Rapunzel & I were singing The Housecarpenter in our new alt-country trans-Atlantic style whilst on our constitutional along Fleetwood beach yesterday evening, seeking the harmonies and the resonances. But we had a beautiful sunset and some fine distant hills: What hills, what hills, are those my love? those hills that shine like gold? Oh those are the hills of The Lakes my love, where one day we might go... Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera, so this will have to do:

Snowdonia from Granny's Bay, Lytham Saint Annes, January 2009

Which isn't the Lakes District at all of course, nor yet even Fleetwood, but I just like the picture - one of those all too rare occasions when the camera does exactly what you want it to!

So what song did I hear in my dreams? I heard Debby McClatchy singing The Innocent Hare with frailing old-time banjo accompaniment with Ross, Rachel & Dave Peters singing harmonies. God knows how it worked, but it it did...

Maybe this should go into the Folk Dreams thread? Maybe it will as well...


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Timo_Tuokkola
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 06:26 AM

In North America, a lot of folk/traditional musicians tend to congregate around renaissance faires.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,squeezeboxhp at work
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM

may be seen as non PC but go to a hunt meet or beagle meet, after the hunt singing usually ensues by real trad singers who do not think they are folkies.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM

Hunt Singing from Yorkshire courtesy of gardener and kennelman Gypsy James.


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 12:17 PM

"may be seen as non PC but go to a hunt meet or beagle meet, after the hunt singing usually ensues by real trad singers who do not think they are folkies."
some people simply can't resist a dig or two can they?


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 12:42 PM

Art,

I agree. The cover is way cool.

Swannanoah also has a great lineup this year.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 02:37 PM

Rosie,

You have to go out and collect and check your sources. There are still those around
who are folkloristic "informants" who can give you a performance.

You might even have your own folklore if you investigate your family.

It's always best to hear a traditional singer live instead of on recording. I've heard
some who will make your hair stand up on the back of your neck. That's what
addicted me to folk music in the first place.

It's best if you hear them in their own comfortable environment rather than at a
"concert" or public performance. In 1954, Guy Carawan, Jack Elliott and I traveled through
the Southern U.S. to find these people. We did! I think you can still do it today and it's
a worthwhile pursuit if you have the time and inclination.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 03:33 PM

The Yorkshire Hunt singers:

Andrew Rogers is a fine singer and a big confident hunt performer and a professional gentleman from near Huddersfield

he sang at Whitby ff last year in the company of Will Noble and John Cocking he even got Martin Carthy to accompamy him on one song!

Swaledale song is afavourite at Christmas at Dungworth [the Sheffield traditional carol sing]

"Bowton's yard" is a fine song, though it just might be from over the Pennines

"All his other wife's came in" ~ is of course one written by Keith Marsden (all the traddies love chorus songs!!)

They still hunt around Huddersfield even if it is in the pub after a brisk walk with the dogs

Ray


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 03:34 PM

The last time we saw a living tradition in action (apart from the Sheffield Carols) was in July 1973 when we first started recording Irish Travellers in the London area. This was at a number of fireside gatherings we were lucky to be at (usually after the pubs closed).
The very last of these we were at was a magic night in an open field next to Heathrow Airport, with planes taking off every few minutes, a huge full moon, everybody drunk - including me, and the wonderful Bill Cassidy (see From Puck To Appleby) singing magnificent versions of 'The Grey Cock' and 'The Outlandish Knight'.
We had a break from recording (supposedly while we got our act together) but the break lasted for 18 months and by the time we started up again the gatherings had stopped - literally between July 1973 and Easter 1975. By then, everybody had bought portable televisions and nobody bothered to light the fire anymore.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM

<quote>
PeterC, are you aware just how 'niche', Radio 3 actually is, when considering a 'wider' audience'?
<quote>

So why ask the bloody question if you are going to complain about the answers?


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Subject: RE: Where Do You Hear Traditional Songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 08:18 PM

You never know where it'll crop up. I lived on the island of Maui for awile & after digging (because of musical starvation) got to know most of the trad players/singers on the island. Mostly old timey & bluegrass but a few (very few)of them liked shanties & sang some, mostly while getting drunk on sailboats. This was in 79'. Met a few trad Hawaiian singers/players too (my 1st exposure to 'slack key' guitar), who just happened on me while practing guitar (never got to far with it) & stopped to play & sing (on my guitar), it was some of the most amazing singing & playing(even to this day) that I ever heard.
Being a fan of tall ships, I helped out on the local restoration of the brig Carthaginian in Lahina when the head of the project welcomed in an old sailing friend on his way to the UK. Turns out the guy had sailed in the Baltic & Cape Horn trades as a young'un (pre or post WWI). He started in telling stories at a party, then playing his concertina, hamonica & alto uke to acccompany his singing. Songs that he collected, learned & knew from the trades he was in. I spent a couple weeks listening to his stories & songs & then it was back to a musical drought.
Had I been more on the ball I would've asked him more about the songs I taped him singing & where he got them from.
So even in a musical desert there's always the chance that with enough digging & luck you won't starve.

Good luck & may you find the best

Barry


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