Folk Singing Competitions?

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 07:54 PM

Good luck with the competition Rosie - enjoy, and give it welly!

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: GUEST,Golightly
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 07:28 PM

Some years ago I went to a young folk singers' competition at Fylde Festival. It was won by a little girl called Kate Rusby, who was so shy her mum had to stand with her while she sang. Didn't seem to do her any harm.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 02:13 PM

Thanks Captain ... couldn't quite remember the name ... all I could see in my mind's eye was the cask in their artwork.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: JohnB
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 11:48 AM

Competition NOT subjective, me sing "Kalinka" get 10 points from Russian judge. It's just like Ice Dance really, great sport between skilled conpetitors :)
JohnB

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 10:29 AM

Brewhouse Music,not brewers.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 09:43 AM

Well of course the much lamented National Folk Music Festival in Sutton Bonington of late had one every year ... prize was a pewter tankard (inscribed) for the best unaccompanied traditional song. Nothing more than that (although for a short while winning it gave you entry to another competition run by Brewers (??) which led to a possible recording session). I entered it in 2000 for feedback, as I had been for a number of years previously, and knew that the judges were honest in their remarks, but kindly. It was unthreatening (well, sort of ... I seem to remember feeling remarkably nervous at the time), and you felt as if you were among friends. The aim was, I think, to provide feedback, and to help you improve your singing. (Ultimately, of course, the judges' opinion was always going to be subjective, but as a member of the audience in previous and subsequent years, I tended to find that I agreed with the remarks which were made).

As to comments about competitions of this sort being newsworthy, I don't recall that side of it at all!

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 09:24 AM

Not a Singing Competition , but a Song Writing Competition , every two years at Maidenhead ! The song HAS to be written THAT Year , and should be a song that would be acceptable in a Folk Club !
The next one is next Thursday , 2nd Apil and the order was decided last night , so dont try to enter this year !
Come along to The Seven Stars for an excellent evening though !

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: treewind
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 07:56 AM

The competition in Suffolk mentioned earlier is presumably the Percy Webb memorial competition at the Blaxhall Ship on May 3rd. An interesting feature of that one is that there are no appointed judges: instead everyone who takes part in the competition votes for their choice of winner (obv. you can't vote for yourself) and the one with the most votes wins.

All having to sing the same song (mentioned near top of thread about another competition) is unbearably sad. The whole point is to have fun and people come to listen as well as to sing. Actually for the Percy Webb cup, you have to notify the organiser about what you intend to sing to make sure the same song isn't repeated - quite the opposite! And anyway the choice of song is an integral part of the singer's performance.

The Blaxhall Ship is also hosting a chorus cup and step dancing competition soon. See the Suffolk Folk Stop Press page.

I think competitions are mostly a good thing: they are certainly a feature of any thriving musical community such as the North East of England (all kinds of music competitions) and step dancing in Dartmoor and Suffolk. I guess it's not quite so good when The Establishment get too involved as with the Eisteddfodau or Comhaltas, and the requirements become too prescriptive and removed from the traditions they were supposed to be promoting. They're fine as long as you don't take them too seriously.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 02:44 AM

Interesting broad division between the English and the Wesh/Scottish/Irish takes on competition. I guess overall the English aren't exactly up to speed with maintaining and promoting active interest in our traditional arts. And the disparity here, is just another example of the same.

I think competition, if managed *well* is generally a good thing for raising the public profile of anything, and for stirring people's interest. The singaround that's met for the last twenty years at the Fox and Hounds in little snoring, won't generally be newsworthy, but the local 'traditional song trophy' will be. Competition also tends to appeal strongly to young people, as it's an achievment to focus on and work towards.

On another thread I suggested county-wide inter-club competitions - on the same level as pool or pub darts, I still think that'd be a good idea and could certainly do no harm to either traditional song, or folk singing clubs.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Diva
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM

I second what Auldtimer said. I have sung at a fair few. Its a good chance to be heard.

May I suugest you come and try Newcastleton Traditional Music Festival in early July. http://www.newcastleton.com/ (Just a wee plug you understand well I am chair) We have competitions for novices/non previous winners and Open and of course the Border Ballad which even made the press one year due to controversy!!!!

But most of all its fun and you'll get a good hearing and we have some great judges

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Banjiman
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 02:05 PM

By the way Dick, the Mrs also won the 2007 Saltburn Folk Fest Songwriter competition with this:

The Visitor *

There are a few others singing it as well now.

* Warning: This video contains banjo (and fiddle and guitar!)

Apologies if the blatant promotion offends anyone.... I'm not her agent, just her husband!

Paul

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: breezy
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 01:12 PM

The 'celtic comps' , on both sides of the Atlantic are the breeding grounds for future performers, the English have no chance.

Just look at the leading performers. Polwart, Garbutt all of Scot and Irish descent.



so look at your blood line, it may also help.

:#]

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 26 Mar 09 - 12:20 PM

Contests have long been a part of the American traditional music scene.
They are, in fact, traditional.
Most often fiddle, but there are/have been competitions for all sorts of music.

The downside is that, in spite of the best of intentions, competitions tend to promote homogenization.

The term "contest fiddling" is usually pejorative.
Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Banjiman
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 03:47 PM

Fiver in the post Cap'ain

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Banjiman
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 03:45 PM

Just for you Dick.

Here's Wendy singing the winning song from Scarborough Seafest to entertain the audience while the judging took place at the KFFC Winter Warmer Trad singing competition from which she was barred to avoid accusations of favouritism!


Sleep Well 'til Morning

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 03:36 PM

there was a songwriting competition at Scarborough Sea fest last year,it was won by Wendy Arrowsmith,that will be fiver, Banjiman.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 02:58 PM

Nobody dies!

I would!

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 01:45 PM

One time I played at a competition (Muchty, I think) I was told I wasn't ALLOWED to introduce my tune set.

If I remember right, I was doing a set of tunes that had been turned into songs by Hamish Henderson, and it seemed to me that the judges and the audience needed fair warning that they were going to get the Hamished versions, not the originals they might have expected in an instrumental competition - but I was stopped before I could say that. Weird.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 01:32 PM

They are great fun and should be regarded as fun. Having compeeted at umteen festivals including Newcaselton, Keith, Girvan, Irvine Merrymass, Auchtermuchty and Kinross, I can only be 100% supportive. It is a great chance to sing and be heard at a festival and reason to practice and work out just what and why your singing and a great chance to hear some good singing, good singers and good songs. The competitions at Kinross were often 3 to 4 hour epics and Newcaselton's Border Ballad competition often went into extra time.

BUT take the competition for real; learn your songs, don't sing from a book or paper; have a selection to pick from, if a song has already been sung do another one; get some background and details, put a bit of effort into reserch, it realy will help your performance; make sure the song is eligible; introduce your song and song title, this helps the adjudicators, the audence and you

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 01:30 PM

I think we have to be a bit careful here and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

The Scots and Irish have a lot more competitions than we do. It doesn't seem to have done the music there too much harm. People will (eventually) play how they want to despite prescriptions from competitions.

If we compare sword dancing competition seems to have inspired the rapper dancers to much higher standards and there has been an big influx of younger dancers in their own teams.

In rapper dancing it looks to me as if the older ones are the unusual ones nowadays. This has to have been influenced by competition.

And they can sup beer.

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 12:37 PM

LOL - yes, I am sure my objection to the term "competition" is silly. And I really do only register my "complaint" half in jest. I wouldn't want to miss out on the fun of the event.

I know these things are good for promoting trad and folk music.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: breezy
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 12:08 PM

It is the tradition for the Welsh irish and Scots to promote music in such away and from a very early age, like 5 ?

there are differing 'classes' of music, only one will be 'Trad', there are others , and ther'ld be solos, duos, small choirs and large, single sex and mixed, singing and reciting !

In general the English do not have this though there are occasional forays. Probably initiated by a celt ! These events tend to be rather formal and classical based

It gives youngsters a very early learning platform on which to perform 'publicly'

I was always beaten by the girl who could sing and and play piano better than me.



It is a cultural and local community.area 'thing'. In London it was based on the Welsh chapels and churches and the London Welsh Society was the larger picture.

I believe the 'english' are the poorer for not having such. i exempt certain celtic influenced areas like Cornwall and the N East of Eng

so the culture is purely in the hands of ?

I was lucky to have attended a school where the music teacher promoted such a competition and I fully support those teachers who do so these days

dear Jed, you dont know what you've missed out on, but you appear to be overcoming your handicap, good luck.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: billybob
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 12:04 PM

At Felixstowe Folk Festival they used to hold The Chorus Cup competition( serious) and the NOT the Chorus Cup competition, both events were very popular and the rivalry was amazing.Usually the competitors were morris sides and the performances were really good.
It is a shame the Festival is no longer!

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Banjiman
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 11:52 AM

..... erm, it's only a bit of fun! Nobody dies!

The competition at KFFC was (I repeat) well received and of a very high standard. Judging was done against a set of defined criteria.... the judges only announced the winner and didn't give feedback to the assembled crowd. Competitors were invited (but only if they wanted to) to seek out the judges for private feedback. The competitors seemed to enjoy the exposure that the comp gave them.

We had a singer/songwriter competition at the previous weekend we ran as well..... again this went down very well.

Nobody was forced to enter.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 11:39 AM

I hope I don't offend with my comments above. I make them half in jest. That is to say, the competition events sound like a lot of fun and I believe they are good for drawing crowds and for helping foster interest in folk music.

I just wish we didn't call the "competitions." It just feels wrong to me!

;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 11:26 AM

Folk Singing Competitions?

My goodness! Surely that's an oxymoron!!

Why not love making competitions? Or baby making competitions? Or Blood donor competitions? How about Organ donor competitions?

Not to make too big a deal of it - I know the idea of the event is to gather a crowd and generate interest in the performance of folk music - and nothing draws attention to an event like a "competition" - but the premise is wholly counter intuitive to the value and the beauty of folk music.

I love my wife's kisses, but I would never consider comparing them to the kisses of others I may have known along the way.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: matt milton
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 11:13 AM

Depends how it's done. Whenever I read about Scottish piping contests I feel a bit uneasy about it. There's something slightly macho about the idea. Music is not sport. It's much more interesting than that. In sport, it's goal-oriented in the most banal way. Score goals=win. In music you can "win" by scoring an "own goal", as it were. There's space for perversity and innovation.

However, there's nothing wrong with competitions per se. People take part in them of their own volition: it's not like anyone's forcing them to. I think hearing an informed assessment from a range of people (judges) with some kind of pedigree is valuable. It's when they start to take on that kind of patriarchal aura, like they really are some kind of authoritative potentate, that it's a bit of a turn-off.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Banjiman
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 10:28 AM

We had one at the KFFC Winter Warmer Weekend (Trad or trad sounding songs.... unaccompanied). It went down very well and we'll be repeating it at future Winter Warmers.

Like Ray I refused to be a judge......... especially as the prize was a booking at KFFC.

Most entrants (there were 8 I think) sang trad English (language) songs but the winner was the only non-English song. A lovely Sean Nos piece by Andy Broderick.

Paul

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 10:21 AM

Unfortunately the Welsh have gone almost completely over to the competitive dark side in terms of traditional music, mostly through the Eisteddfodau (Urdd, National, Internationa, local, etc). This has, on one hand, ensured that a certain number of songs appear on the 'national stage' at least a few times a year, but they have certainly played a role in killing off traditional singing and instrumental styles. Fortunately, there are now other moves (and movements) afoot which are reclaiming the space.

sian

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Mar 09 - 09:17 AM

Saltburn folk festival has Fred Jordan Memorial competition for Unaccompanied Trad style singers

This is for over 18s, by the way

August 14/15/16 2009

I coordinate this competition and we have judges [i wont judge, lose all me friends], I try to have some new judges every year, but previous years winner also judges (or can enter!)

Pre the Fred, we ran Angus Russell competition for Shanty men for many years at Redcar Folk Festival

Ray

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 05:07 PM

Hunt suppers up north used to have singing competitions(and story telling and lie-telling). The practise has not totally died out.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 05:03 PM

Leigh Folk Festival and Rochester Sweeps have competitions. I think the Sweeps is called Folk Factor.

Never been to one so don't know what they are like.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM

"I feel that music should not be competitive because it is far too subjective. In order for judges to adjudicate a performance fairly it is often required that a performer do the same number in exactly the same way. I believe this format is used in mods, piping, fiddle, dancing competitions etc."

yeah, I don't know that I like the idea of 'judges' either. Though as far as I'm aware the one in Suffolk is democratic and determined by votes cast from the pub floor.

Still, personally I think it actually sounds like an evenings fun!
In a village fete egg and spoon race kinda way, rather than a breakdown inducing young musician of the year kinda way.

Though having seen some of the comments on threads here maybe I shouldn't feel so optimistic.. ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 04:37 PM

I don't know. I just stumbled on it...might have been in Inverness many years ago. mg

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 04:35 PM

I feel that music should not be competitive because it is far too subjective. In order for judges to adjudicate a performance fairly it is often required that a performer do the same number in exactly the same way. I believe this format is used in mods, piping, fiddle, dancing competitions etc.
It is by far better to enjoy the performance from our own subjective viewpoint than to have someone else tell us who we should like better!
Cape Breton Island, for instance, is known world wide for its Scottish style fiddlers, but you will never find Buddy MacMaster, Jerry Holland, or Kinnon Beaton competing against one another. You will, however if you are lucky, find them playing together and complimenting each other. The only winner in such a contest is the listener and with music that is how it should be!

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 04:08 PM

which festival was that , mg ?

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 04:06 PM

I went to one in Scotland..what they did was everyone sang the same song. mg

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:58 PM

In America, the call it American Idle.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:44 PM

Sidmouth USED to have a Traditional Singer competition , which was , if I recall correctly , purely Unaccompanied and Tradional Song .
And there is still the Welsh Eistedfodd as well .

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:32 PM

Probably OK , but undoubtedly Subjective.

Subject: RE: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: BobKnight
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:28 PM

The Traditional Music of Scotland Association, (TMSA) runs singing and instrumental competitions at just about every Scottish festival, as well as the local branches running annual events too.

Subject: Folk Singing Competitions?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 03:07 PM

I found out about one of these, held in a Suffolk pub, just the other day.

Do many people get involved in such things, and what are they like?