BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:02 AM

Welcome to Mudcat, the web's answer to vanity publishing!

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:22 AM

Tim - you seemed to have missed "coincidentally" in my last comment.
Stu - born here (actually the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the world cup), I am a repatriate.
S. - some of these issues were brought up on the above-mentioned programme (as they have been here before, of course), but it was stressed that they were talking about post-WW2 mass immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:18 AM

Did you have an Australian passport?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:19 AM

Sean = your last paragraph sums up my view exactly

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:49 AM

Yes, Stu - on my travels I used 2 passports depending on the visa requirements, but I have lived in England for going on 17 years now and, whilst I wouldn't mind some VISITS to other nations, intend to abide here.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:57 PM

Sean = your last paragraph sums up my view exactly

I think a lot of people feel the same way, Stu - for all WAVs protestations to not being racist, he nevertheless perseveres in the publication of potentially inflammatory racist polemic in all (seeming) innocence. My worry is that sooner or later someone even more idiotic than WAV is going to take him at his mistaken word when he says English culture is taking a hammering (etc. ad nauseum) and then go out and act (violently) upon it. Fact is English Culture most certainly isn't taken a hammering because English Culture most certainly isn't what WAV thinks it is. English Culture is, in fact, the sum total of the multi-cultural activity of the English People, which is to say EVERYONE currently residing in England at any given moment in time regardless of ethnicity. In this sense alone I am proud to be English and feel that WAV should address himself to FACTS rather than his fanatical fantasies which are as tiresome as they just plain wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:39 PM

You are confused there, S.: the "facts" are that there is still English culture (if weakened) among a multiple number of cultures now in England - a multiple that has increased greatly due to post-WW2 mass-immigration, especially under New Labour. Whether we like or dislike those facts about our democracy is another matter, which was being debated today on the above-mentioned BBC programme.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:56 PM

WAV - the only one confused around here is you, as you make abundantly clear with your pronouncements on things you clearly know nothing about. English Culture is now, and always has been, the sum total of the HUMAN INDIVIDUALS currently resident in England, regardless of any multi-cultural consideration. What do think of as English Culture doesn't exist outside of your fevered fantasy world.

I know it's cold right now, but maybe if you gave Life a try rather than the BBC things might become clearer.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:09 PM

He's getting mixed up between culture and tradition Sean.
Then again, he's also mixed up between poetry, polemics, and doggerel

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:10 PM

"I know it's cold right now, but maybe if you gave Life a try rather than the BBC things might become clearer."...it's me, not you S., who has travelled on a shoestring through about 40 countries, achieved distinctions during a humanities degree, etc. (and the same for you, John).

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:14 PM

"Then again, he's also mixed up between poetry, polemics, and doggerel"



The latter two, undoubtedly, but I see no evidence of the first.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:49 PM

Oh come on WAV - Sean is well read and has a high level of understanding on many matters. Your degrees and fork lift truck certs don't qualify you for anything useful or interesting on this forum. When did you stop learning?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:28 PM

They say travel broadens the mind, David - so where, one wonders, did we go wrong with you?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 05:30 AM

On this day, in 1569, the first official lottery in England was drawn; and, in my opinion, they remain...

Poem 138 of 230: AN OPIUM

National Lottery passes -
    Slight chances to be richer,
    With lots more than thy neighbour,
    Gained without any labour -
    Keep the system in favour:
An opium of the masses.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 10:26 AM

in my opinion, they remain... Poem 138 of 230: AN OPIUM

The correct quote is: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." (Marx, Karl. 1844. A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right).

Whilst I can't disagree with you with respect of the National Lottery, I do think your stance in this respect this is a bit hypocritical - not only coming from a Christian (see above) but also from one whose entire Life's Work amounts to an opiate on just about every level imaginable.

Time to go Cold Turkey maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 01:25 PM

Whilst aware that Marx was referring to religion, and that most people would also be aware of it, in that poem I never said I agree with him on that in particular; rather, I merely gave lotteries as an example of an "opium of the masses" - and I'm glad that you "can't disagree with...respect of the National Lottery," at least, S.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 02:34 PM

We all of us have our opiates, David - to some it is religion, to others it is the lottery. Both offer the same sort of wan hope with the difference that the lottery does pay out, and generates revenue for some worthwhile projects without the attendant worthiness.

Interesting to note that the first instance of opiate of the people seems to be the Marquis de Sade - an interesting association, me thinks...

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 06:29 PM

The most common opiates of the North American public nowadays are:

1. consumerism
2. television and other video devices
3. alcohol
4. sex/pornography/and related aspects of sexuality
5. gambling/lotteries/casinos
6. overeating/eating junk food
7. caffeine drinks
8. sugar-laden food and drink
9. yakking and texting on cellphones and similar devices

And finally...a long time after all of the above....religion.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:46 AM

Socialism predates Marx by 100s of years - here's one example of socialism in the Bible...

Poem 82 of 230: ON ACTS 4:32-35

Believers were all one in heart and mind -
    They shared their excesses, giving in kind.
No-one claimed any possessions one's own -
    Yes, it was socialism on the throne.

So not long were there desperate folk -
    Fair distribution was the tongue they spoke.
And wealthy owners would sell part their deed -
    Funds, via apostles, to those in need.

Yet today, all round our troubled earth,
    Some Christians, safe at their own snug hearth,
Vote for their electorate's Right-Wing party -
    That's hypocritical, it seems to me.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 07:06 AM

Fair point, David. I was raised by essentially secular socialists with the notion that Christ was the first Communist; which is to say, concentrating on his teaching & example, rather than the entirely mythical context in which these are set, however so persuasive they might be. There remains a dichotomy here which, as you point out in your final stanza, underlines the hypocrisy of much so-called Christian thinking today. The alternative I once called Jesuism (although it seemed others got there first - see HERE) - which is an essentially secular & humanistic appreciation of the life & teachings of Christ as revealed in Canonical & Gnostic scripture.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 09:45 AM

I had in mind, also, some of the American evangelists (whom LH, above, may also have had in mind) that made personal fortunes out of their evangelism.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 03:53 PM

Ask any Christian about what Christ meant by The Eye of the Needle and the chances are they'll tell you about a narrow passage in Jerusalem which was difficult to get a camel along. That no such passage ever existed seems besides the point - see HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 04:50 PM

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)...I'd only thought of it this way - there were, in those days, needles and humpy camels, plus Jesus with his sense of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 05:22 AM

In both France and the U.S.A., the "Statue of Liberty" should be renamed the "Statue of Regulationism," for "Liberty, as surfeit, is the father of much fast" (Shakespeare, Measure for Measure)...

Poem 83 of 230: ACTS

How policy gets into place
Is an issue that all states face:
    It happens democratically
    (All of-opinion - voting free/
    Part of-opinion - compulsory);
    It happens autocratically
    (Sometimes involving prophecy).
What's most important, in my case,
Is that humane acts win the race.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 05:43 AM

there were, in those days, needles and humpy camels,

It even featured on an episode of QI - one of the more evident theological convolutions that wealthy Christians have come up with over the centuries to get around the central human simplicity of Christ's teachings. One wonders what he would make of the funny hats & hoo-hah of the established church, much less the suit & tie gobshite evangelists who seem ever more obsessed with The Rapture and other things that just aren't going to happen. That said, for all their faults I have greater sympathy for the traditional churches, largely account of their antiquity & cultural manifestations which at least offer some sort of substance. Is this what Jesus was getting at in Matthew 7:16 I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:24 AM

From a visit to the state of Victoria, in Australia...

Poem 7 of 230: RECENT HISTORY

There's a place called Sovereign Hill,
    Nigh the city of Ballarat,
With dated representations -
    And they're authentic ones at that.

You can pan for gold at the creek,
    Write some lines with inkwell and quill,
See bread baked the colonial way
    Or a blacksmith at his anvil.

There's a, pre-plastics, bowling lane -
    With everything made in wood;
A painted-photo studio,
    And a saloon built as they stood.

Ride in a draft-horse drawn carriage,
    See the front gardens of the day,
Read-up on mining history,
    Or watch costumed-revellers play.

And, just beside the "old" village,
    Should you decide to see some more,
There's homely accommodation;
    But heed - Kooris came long before.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:54 AM

From my days in North-West England...

Poem 130 of 230: ENTRÉE/AT BOLTON'S ALBERT HALL: OPERA SONG - WINTER 2000/1

(TUNE:

G A B C' B
C' D' C' B
B C' B D' D'
G E D C
C' E' F' E' E'
E' E' D' C'
C' E' F' G' G'
G E D C)

From novel, and play,
To opera,
La Traviata
Was my entrée
To a media
I find is a
Fine way to relay
Human drama.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:45 PM

"Media" is plural.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 07:07 AM

Yes, Stu, but the rhyme scheme is abbabaab..?

In North Wales...

Poem 165 of 230: HOLYHEAD AND SURROUNDS - SUMMER 2001

The vivid heaths backed by Snowdon,
    The water-filled "Giant's Divots,"
And the keeps of kept construction.

The fast flows under Menai Bridge,
    The flat farmland of Anglesea,
And then Holyhead's ground-round ridge.

Off the train, all Holyhead's homes -
    Although varied in their structure -
Seemed matched to the ridge in their tones.

After the fortified church-grounds
    (Including Old Harbour vistas),
The museum ended my rounds.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 11:25 AM

So find an alternative?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 11:41 AM

...I may replace "media" (above) with "conveyor"..?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 12:09 PM

to an art 'forma' ? (Italian)

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 03:52 PM

Yes, I think I'll go with that, thanks Stu.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 05:35 AM

Poem 16 of 230: A BEAUTIFUL STAGE

If a couple, with plans to wed,
    Asked me, off the top of my head,
For somewhere I thought well in-tune
    As a place for a honeymoon,
It would have - flashing back - to be
    Beautifully-honed Italy.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:34 AM

I don't have a poem about the Australian Open tennis, which has just started, but this one mentions the only other professional tournamnent I've attended, at Devonshire Park, where the men's Oxford versus Cambridge Varsity matches were also held; I enjoyed them but questioned the women's tennis, and concluded it's better for females, rather, to play TABLE tennis, which puts far less stress on the racket/bat arm...

Poem 156 of 230: EASTBOURNE - SUMMER 2001

On the day before the solstice,
    I first sighted Eastbourne:
A beautiful elegant place -
    English culture untorn.

Two long days allowed two long lanes
    To be walked before dark -
One after travel on four trains,
    One post-Devonshire Park.

The first was between sea and heath,
    And gardens signed by post,
Then up the Downs to view, beneath,
    The brutal handsome coast.

The next, contrasting that before,
    Showed all kinds of vessels -
Parked up along the pebbly shore
    And in marina cells.

(But, as for the women's tennis,
    It soon became a qualm -
As I was put-off by what is
    A great strain on their arm.)

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:59 AM

And your underlying philosophy about women's place in society is...? How do you propose to stop women playing Lawn Tennis WAV? UN regulations?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 08:32 AM

Yes, Tim, but don't forget, unlike many males, I've no problem with, e.g., the next Archbishop of Canterbury being a female, or a president, for that matter - because archbishops and presidents don't have to belt tennis balls or lift heavy weights.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 09:56 AM

How about female bricklayers? Engineers? Farm workers? However you slice it, you intend to limit the number and type of jobs that are open to women. That's against the law in this country; it's called sex discrimination, either direct or indirect. How do you propose to change the law WAV? I'll ask you again; how do you propose to prevent women playing lawn tennis? As a secondary question; where is your medical evidence that women's arms are under greater strain than men's arms. Chapter and verse please; we'll need figures for the number and type of arm injuries involving strain to the arm in professional tennis, let's say over the last ten years. Then we'll need a rigorous statistical analysis, plus a statememnt of causality in each case. This should then be peer reviewed, preferably by an Orthopaedic specialist and a sports physiotherapist. Otherwise, we'll have to assume that you've just made all this up.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:39 PM

When I was at university in Australia, Tim, I was receiving a benefit called "Austudy", whilst Aboriginal students were getting "Abstudy" - a better deal, which, as part of reconciliation, I agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:12 PM

And the answers to my questions are...? Please read my post again, engage whatever you use instead of a brain, and try to answer my clearly stated questions. If you can't do this, it might be time to review your medication. For the record; I didn't ask you about Australia, aborigines, study funding, reconciliation or anything else in your post. What you just posted may possibly be the greatest non sequitur of all time.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:40 PM

"There are general guidelines - or maximum weights - for men and women. If applying these, no man should attempt to lift anything heavier than 25kg and a woman's maximum limit is 16kg" (here)...and here here/hear hear - if I saw a lady attempting to lift a 25kg bag of raw material on the shop floor, I'd certainly stop her and insist on doing so myself.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:04 PM

Come on WAV do you really think that a normal woman should be prevented from lifting a typical four=year old?


Stu

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:39 PM

What does weight lifting have to do with tennis? Come on WAV, I challenged you to back up your nonesensical assertions, and you have failed to do so. Answer the questions asked, not the ones you want to answer. How will you prevent women playing tennis? What is your medical evidence that tennis is damaging to women?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:01 AM

According to WikeAnswers, Stu, it's 16 - 20kg, so, according to the above guidelines, some care and common sense would be needed.

Tim - the sport I follow most closely is tennis and, thus, I'm aware of many stress injuries in women's tennis: e.g., Sue Barker said herself on the BBC that she played many matches with pain killers injected into her wrist. As I say, parents should encourage daughters into, rather, TABLE tennis, in my opinion.

In Lancashire, England...

Poem 125 of 230: BLACKBURN CATHEDRAL - AUTUMN 2000

Just out of the station,
    And past a new statue
On human relation
    (Mum, kid, and teddy, too),
Lies Blackburn Cathedral,
    Which, from my passage through,
Seems very musical
    In its newly-formed view.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:04 AM

BLACKBURN CATHEDRAL

An amazing place, not least as here resides some of Mr Eatough's misericord carvings originally done for Whalley Abbey, circa 1430 - the others now residing at Whalley Parish Church & Cliviger. My favourite of the Blackburn carvings is The Fall (and in Detail, wherein lurks the devil) - photos by me.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:39 AM

And Sue Barker's medical qualifications are? I asked you for evidence WAV, not gossip. I would have thought that someone with your array of qualifications would know the difference. Are you aware of any stress injuries in men's tennis?

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 10:29 AM

I'm afraid my medical qualifications are limited to basic first aid, Tim, so can only add examples, such as Sharapova recently being out of the game with a shoulder injury for several months.

Thanks for those pics, Sean: seems you've been to quite a few of the places in my Walkabouts (especially in Lancs and NE)...good for me, as I had "my pen" but not a camera!

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:02 AM

Can you actually read, WAV? I didn't ask what your medical qualifications were. I asked if you were aware of any stress injuries in men's tennis. Answer the question please, and then kindly address my other questions.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:07 PM

Yes, Tim, but more in women's tennis, I gather.

Subject: RE: BS: WalkaboutsVerse Anew
From: s&r
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:08 PM

800