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Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!

Vic Smith 14 Apr 09 - 10:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 09 - 10:43 AM
treewind 14 Apr 09 - 10:54 AM
The Sandman 14 Apr 09 - 10:55 AM
Will Fly 14 Apr 09 - 11:14 AM
George Papavgeris 14 Apr 09 - 11:15 AM
George Papavgeris 14 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM
TheSnail 14 Apr 09 - 11:26 AM
Vic Smith 14 Apr 09 - 11:56 AM
George Papavgeris 14 Apr 09 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Auldtimer 14 Apr 09 - 01:09 PM
greg stephens 14 Apr 09 - 03:36 PM
Vic Smith 14 Apr 09 - 03:42 PM
GUEST,AEOLA 14 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Apr 09 - 04:17 PM
Marje 14 Apr 09 - 04:59 PM
Vic Smith 14 Apr 09 - 05:11 PM
George Papavgeris 14 Apr 09 - 05:15 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Apr 09 - 05:54 PM
greg stephens 14 Apr 09 - 06:20 PM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 09 - 03:48 AM
Simon G 15 Apr 09 - 04:27 AM
The Barden of England 15 Apr 09 - 04:43 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Apr 09 - 04:52 AM
The Borchester Echo 15 Apr 09 - 05:16 AM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 09 - 05:46 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Apr 09 - 06:44 AM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 09 - 06:51 AM
Vic Smith 15 Apr 09 - 06:53 AM
Marje 15 Apr 09 - 07:00 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Apr 09 - 07:09 AM
Tug the Cox 15 Apr 09 - 07:50 AM
The Borchester Echo 15 Apr 09 - 07:51 AM
matt milton 15 Apr 09 - 08:02 AM
BobKnight 15 Apr 09 - 08:05 AM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 09 - 08:05 AM
The Borchester Echo 15 Apr 09 - 08:10 AM
The Borchester Echo 15 Apr 09 - 08:17 AM
matt milton 15 Apr 09 - 08:26 AM
Vic Smith 15 Apr 09 - 08:35 AM
TheSnail 15 Apr 09 - 09:10 AM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 09 - 09:20 AM
Valmai Goodyear 17 Apr 09 - 04:10 AM
GUEST 17 Apr 09 - 04:34 AM
Will Fly 17 Apr 09 - 04:37 AM
GUEST,Folkboy 17 Apr 09 - 05:45 AM
Girl Friday 17 Apr 09 - 11:08 AM
Piers Plowman 17 Apr 09 - 11:16 AM
LesB 17 Apr 09 - 01:37 PM
breezy 17 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM
Girl Friday 18 Apr 09 - 12:02 PM
Girl Friday 18 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM
breezy 18 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 18 Apr 09 - 12:25 PM
Girl Friday 18 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,Pigstrings 18 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM
Girl Friday 19 Apr 09 - 07:53 PM
Aeola 20 Apr 09 - 12:57 PM
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Subject: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:32 AM

See -
http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4307


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:43 AM

It's the end of the world as we know it...

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: treewind
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:54 AM

Yes but what about the audience????

A.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:55 AM

it is nothing new.
but good to see Vic Smith and his club are encouraging teenagers.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:14 AM

Vic - sounds as though it was a great evening - more plaudits to you and yours. I now have a violin lesson every other Thursday evening so, while I was scraping away in Bevendean, your youngesters were whooping it up in Lewes. Sorry to have missed it.

As it happens, I was up in Charlwood for the singaround at the Rising Sun last night (absolutely wonderful singing, by the way), and there was a young lass of about 8 who performed three tunes beautifully on the violin while the rest of us accompanied quietly in the background. She was a comparative beginner but played delightfully - and brought the house down.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:15 AM

A good sign, undoubtedly. But treewind above asked the really important question. Otherwise I see the poor youngsters ending up as fodder for audiences of ageing folkies drooling over the memories of when they were themselves like once upon a time.

It's not about who plays, but about who listens. Not who comes on open nights to have a chance of a spot, then disappear minutes after they have finished it, but who follows the music because it speaks to them.

Still, as Dick says above, good to see tennagers being encouraged to participate. Perhaps they can drag their friends in too.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM

...and I really must start using a spellcheckex


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:26 AM

I was there!

And bloody good they were too. Yes, there were young people there; the question is, "Will they come back?". It's all very well having young acts to bring in young audiences but it would be nice to think that the youngsters can see the value of learning from experienced oldies. I think Matt and Tom probably know this.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:56 AM

Anahata wrote:-
Yes but what about the audience????

then
George Papavgeris said:-
I see the poor youngsters ending up as fodder for audiences of ageing folkies drooling over the memories of when they were themselves like once upon a time.



Well, there was a really good mix of ages last Thursday in a sizeable audience ranging in age from Tom's younger brother (12ish) through to our doorman who is about 70. There were young couples, older couples, groups of youngsters, men and women came on their own..... I am not sure what George means by "fodder for audiences of ageing folkies". Surely people of every age group have the right to listen to the music they like? If you've looked at the comments and the photos on the link, you'll see and read that there were young people there in the audience - including another teenager playing a floor spot. Neither is this the first time that we have booked teenagers as guests in recent times. There was a trio of schoolboys not long ago and we were very early on the scene in booking the Askews when they were teenagers.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 12:38 PM

Vic,
I was being generic with my "fodder" observation, and certainly not referring to the particular club or evening. As for what I mean by such an observation, imagine the following scene, which I have observed from time to time around the country:

Open evening at a folk club. Average age of audience and participants = 45 (with extremes ranging from 35 to 80+). A couple of 18-year olds walk in, ask for a spot, and get it. A further 3-4 of their mates come in also. The couple of youngsters are good (anything from decent to brilliant). The audience looks on admiringly, but also whistfully. For a few minutes there they kid themselves that they have witnessed a sign of revival of the club's (and folk's) fortunes. They ply the youngsters with offers of further spots and even a feature opportunity, if they would come again.

But during the break, the young players and their mates leave. They have better things to do, places to go where more fun is to be found. The club regulars are left with the whistful reminiscences for an evening. Nothing has changed.

I am NOT saying that this is your club, Vic. In fact, I have seen clubs such as the Magpie's nest in London where the above description does NOT hold true. But I have witnessed such scenes around the country, which is the reason why I look for more than one swallow before I can call it a spring. Or perhaps I am just in a pessimistic mood today...

But I repeat - well done for encouraging the youngsters, and I hope more clubs will follow your example.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 01:09 PM

Good to see teenagers? as players and singers? nothing new, even I did it many years ago (ok maybe teenager is stretching things a bit (ok a big bit) but most of those younger than me were girls). BUT where are the teenagers and twenty odds and thirty odds in the audience???? This is a bit like "dog bites man"- not news, "man bites dog" - front page. Getting young folk in is important but let's not forget the older folk the twenties, thirties, fourties and fifties, hell even the sixties and onwards. There should be no age barrier at either end of the range. This was and still should be a social and sociable form of interaction.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:36 PM

The Kit and Cutter folk club in Deptford had an audience predominately in the under-25 age group when I visited there a month back. It can be done, George. But it is, of course, very very rare. That club is run by 22-year olds, that's what makes the difference!


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:42 PM

George Papavgeris wrote:-
Open evening at a folk club. Average age of audience and participants = 45 (with extremes ranging from 35 to 80+). A couple of 18-year olds walk in, ask for a spot, and get it. A further 3-4 of their mates come in also. The couple of youngsters are good (anything from decent to brilliant). The audience looks on admiringly, but also whistfully. For a few minutes there they kid themselves that they have witnessed a sign of revival of the club's (and folk's) fortunes. They ply the youngsters with offers of further spots and even a feature opportunity, if they would come again.

But during the break, the young players and their mates leave. They have better things to do, places to go where more fun is to be found. The club regulars are left with the whistful reminiscences for an evening. Nothing has changed.


Thank you for this reply, George, and I think that it explains your position more clearly. I think it betrays, however, a misunderstanding of some of the sociological changes that our society has undergone - and before that starts to sound offensive, let me assure you that I can be as guilty of that as anyone as I hope this posting goes on to explain. Let me give you an example:-

About five years ago, I was at the Sidmouth Festival and taking an afternoon out from what can be a pretty intensive week; I was sitting outside my tent, trying to read a book. Nearby there was a group of tents in a circle - all occupied by teenagers. They were all laying around doing not very much and a loud ghetto blaster was going THUMPA-THUMPA-THUMPA. Pretty annoying. I looked over at them and thought to myself, "What on earth have this lot doing at a folk festival? Surely they have come to the wrong place?" Then one of them, a girl, switched the ghetto blaster off ("Hooray", says Vic) goes into a tent and emerged with a pair of clogs, a small dancing board and a bodhran. She hands the bodhan to one of the blokes and stoops and puts the clogs on. When she was standing on the board, the young bloke rippled out a complicated four bar pattern on the bodhran, she copied it exactly with her clogs on the board. After a few short copies of the bodhran's pattern, it developed into a complex question and answer pattern. It was brilliant, mesmerising, worthy of a spot at any folk club, concert or festival, but it would probably have a much broader appeal also to a wider audience.
What Vic had misunderstood, and what I think George has misunderstood also, is that, unlike several generations that have gone before including mine, young people no longer define themselves by the genre of music that they listen to. In today's information-rich society when a complex, varied and bafflingly massive mix of sounds are readily available to them as they were not in the past, they mix and match and take a little from everywhere. So they would not call themselves "folkies" ever - but equally they would not want to be "mods" "rockers" or "skinheads" or other groups that were associated with one genre of music, often with pretty anti-social consequences.
Another way in which society has changed is in the way people are starting to view their leisure time. The average folk club evening, let's say it is 8 to 11 - three hours - is too long for many people with the complex demands of modern society. It may be why some of the youngsters that George has observed left the club early, but it is not only the teenagers who behave like this.
In recent times I have noticed a trend of couples coming to our folk club, then at the interval they take their coats, smile and thank me and then leave. "Oh!" thinks Vic, "It's not their sort of thing - they are leaving." but then these people come again in other weeks. A comment made by one of a young couple when they were leaving at the interval for about the fifth time might be quite significant. The woman said, "I hope you don't think that we are rude always leaving at the interval but our neighbour can only babysit of a Thursday, so we like to make the most of it; we come up here until the interval and then we go for a meal."


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

IF THE ENTERTAINMENT IS YOUNG & GOOD THE FOLKS OF ANY AGE WILL FOLLOW SURELY? ANYONE READING SOME OF THE COMMENTS WILL I SUSPECT BE PUT OFF. LET'S HAVE POSITIVE COMMENTS.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 04:17 PM

So why can't they go for a meal after the Royal Oak closes, or are the restaurants of Lewes run on the same mid C20 timescale as the so-called train service, i.e. none whatsoever after 11 p.m.?

That just typifies what's wrong with "f*lk clubs", such an anachronism nowadays. Just because they've always (er . . . always? For 40 years at the outside . . . ) done stuff in a particular way and at a set-in-stone time, some imagine it will always be so. Fortunately the sell-by is long expired.

I've seen Matt Quinn in a club once, or perhaps twice (with his dad) but never Tom Moore who I've come across several times in recent years, just hanging out on the edges of events and festivals.

Jolly good they are too, as I'm sure the Sidmouth campsite stepdancer was. This is far more in the spirit of how it was before the flaming "revival" reared its head. We did Northumbrian clog in the schoolyard long before anyone invented the "f*lk club" concept and it never entered our heads that this was "f*lk dancing". It was just what you did.

And, doubtless, music sans labels will be performed here and there on high points rising out of the floodplains to come for as long as there are people on this earth.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Marje
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 04:59 PM

Diane, I'd be very surprised if any of the restaurants in Lewes, or in most provincial towns, were serving meals after 11 pm. I'd be equally surprised if anyone in such towns wanted to have their evening meal at that time. And in any case, a couple who had to get back for a babysitting neighbour would surely have the courtesy not to extend their evening out until the wee hours, even if they could hang on until 11.30 pm for their dinner and find someone to prepare it for them then.

One minute you're saying things don't always have to be done in the same old way, and the next you're criticising people who want to mix-and-match their evening's entertainment in a way that suits their lifestyle, rather than stick to the time-honoured pattern of staying until after the last encore. Why on earth shouldn't they leave when they want to? I expect they paid the full entrance fee, and they were thoughtful enough to explain their reasons to the MC. Isn't that exactly the sort of adaptive behaviour that folk clubs (and what's your problem with that letter "o"?) need to accept and embrace?

Marje


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 05:11 PM

Greg wrote:-
That club is run by 22-year olds, that's what makes the difference!


That is the point, Greg, and like will attract like. There's nothing wrong with the folk club format but it does need more young organisers. Sam Lee showed the way and now the Deptford club is following suite. Let's hope these are the first of many new young organisers who can revitalise things.

In some ways, it is very encouraging. It has already been stated on this thread that the young can learn from older performers. As a young folk club organiser in my twenties, I was booking traditional performers that were sometimes fifty years or more older then me. Now Sam Lee recently booked Sara Grey who is many years older than he. And the Kit and Cutter has booked old geezers like.....er.....(gulp).... Greg Stephens!


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 05:15 PM

You're right, Vic, I have myself fallen into the trap of pigeoholing someone significantly younger than me only to be pleasantly surprised. And the comments on today's attention span are also ringing true, as does the comment about people nowadays being much less prone to thinking themselves in one group or another based on musical preferences. Diane's comment on the preference of the younger generation (and not only them) for the festival as opposed to the club "scene" also makes sense.

We have to try and differentiate, it seems to me, between our wish for the music to be passed on, and the wish for the structures of old (read: clubs) to continue thriving fed by young blood. The former is not only the higher of the two aims, it is also the most likely to be achieved.

And I am in favour of anything that happens to help achieve it.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 05:54 PM

It may put the fear of bejasus into the staid old geezers of Lewes (in fact I hope it does) but I'd show up there a lot more often if there was any chance of getting out of there (short of a lift) after 11.07. That's the ridiculous time of the last train. This must affect many, especially very young, people other than just me.

However, if I do arrive for some evening event somewhere, it's highly unlikely there's been time to eat beforehand. What's truly incomprehensible is that if your stuck out in a pub in the sticks at the end of the first decade of the 21st century there's still only a toss-up between a bag of crisps or at best Tom Paley stylee sandwiches in crackly paper, or else starve.

Is it any wonder that younger people are doing it for themselves, either at establishments with a more realistic attitude towards present-day lifestyles or away from the tired, 40-year-old set-up altogether.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 06:20 PM

I'll tell you something else about the Kit and Cutter. Apart from us(the Boat Band) as guests, they had a support act (Called Yo Zushi) and three(I think) floorspots, including False Hare. And every one of those acts was (a) very good and (b) very interesting. Now, who is going to put there hand on their heart and say that description applies to most folk clubs? I tell you, youth might just be the way foreward!


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 03:48 AM

Agree, Greg - though in my case youth is the way back... :-(


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Simon G
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 04:27 AM

Just musing what your reaction would have been at the age of 16 if the people you are now wanted you to become part of their music scene/club.

There is a vibrant young acoustic/alt folk/urban folk scene out there playing fantastic creative music, its not the equivalent of the 50's revival yet but it is growing and its influence is spreading. Let them get on with it.

Hey, if they'd come to our clubs we would have stiffled them by saying they weren't traditional enough or that we don't play that song that way here or you can't perform that song because its Fred's. Even though we didn't mean to stiffle them we would, that is just the nature of the game.

Simon


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Barden of England
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 04:43 AM

In my case George, youth was 'Way back' :-)

Got to agree though that the days of 'pigeonholing' are to a great extent over, and the better it is for that. My local session in Maidstone has spawned 'Wheeler Street', none of whom are over 21, but they've happily mixed in with us old crinklies, as we have with them. Youth is in the eye of the beholder - me - I'm still 18 (although the body says something very different).

John Barden


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 04:52 AM

Going back to the original froots thread, one of the young people even looks like a folkie (albeit he needs to develop his beer gut a bit).

What I'm trying to work out is why anyone feels the need to bitch about this, or indeed to present a catch-22 of "Don't make them feel left out, they'll leave" but simultaneously "Don't welcome them, they'll think you want them to join the old folks' home".

Or why anyone feels impelled to denigrate Lewes as being "in the sticks" while asserting that "f*lk" is not truly a folk art since it is no longer done in the playgrounds of her youth.

Or indeed how such a person might denigrate the rest of us as out of touch while forgetting that staying at a place of music until 11 and then going out to dine is not only grossly discourteous to a babysitter but also hardly conducive to a good following morning when the babies are awake at 5 am and rousting the hangover.

There just ain't no pleasing some people.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 05:16 AM

The point actually was that it is not possible to escape from rather a large number of hick venues later than 11.00 because of the crap railway system and that it is impossible to eat during such an event anyway, which is why newer venues like The Green Note or (formerly) The Spitz are a vast improvement on tired old "f*lk clubs".

And the reference to clogging in the schoolyard was a comparison with the stepdancer / bodhrán player on a campsite alongside other musics, that is to say unghettoising trad music and treating it an an integral part of living, which is also considerably more refreshing than what happens at the bulk of care in the community drop-in centres.

Childcare arrangements do not fall within my remit or even interest. I will comment only that if adequate alternative care to enable a parent to follow his/her outside pursuits is not affordable, perhaps that should have been considered before reproducing. Better still, the parents could choose venues where the children might attend too (and be fed), as long as they can behave . . .


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 05:46 AM

I guess I have been lucky, as in my culture there are no such age barriers, and we are generally willing to absorb other cultural elements, as this proves.

No barriers of taste either.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:44 AM

There you go again.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:51 AM

??


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:53 AM

George Papavgeris
??

I rather think that Richard may have been referring to the posting above yours, George.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Marje
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:00 AM

If you don't know much about childcare or families, Diane, then it's not up to you to start telling people who have children when they should eat their meals or go home to the babysitter. To suggest that people should not have children, or not attend folk clubs, if they can't keep the hours and habits that you happen to favour is arrogant and high-handed. They have a perfcet right to arrange their lives on their own terms.

There are plenty of pubs that host open folk sessions and also provide meals. I (personally) don't like this mixture much - it means that the musicians and singers are jostling for space around tables, among customers who are more interested in their sticky-toffee-pudding than in the music, and who may well want to chat over the noise, but if that's what you like, I'm sure you can find it.

Folk club like those in Lewes, on the other hand, are for people who want to give their full attention to the music. Such clubs tend to have limited space, so they use what space there is for seating rather than having tables for drinks/food, and can thus accommodate more people. I know I'd rather sit in a group of 50 attentive folkies than among 20 diners treating the music as background cabaret.

You can choose which of these types of event you want to attend (always assuming you can get there and get home). Yes, public transport is often inadequate - if you think Lewes is a "hick" place you should try living here in Devon! - but that's not the fault of the locals or the club organisers, so please don't whinge to them or us about it.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:09 AM

Yes Vic, indeed.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:50 AM

Richard, Marje, I know its difficult, but don't bite. it never has any useful outcome. Type something to help you vent, then delete without submitting.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:51 AM

It is, of course, clearly my mistake yet again to credit Mudpersons with sufficient intelligence to actually read what has been said, but hey, I'll give it one last go.

The Royal Oak is really quite a noisy place in a participatory sort of way and not nearly as precious as many a cliquey "it's ours", clubbier-than-thou hangout I could but won't mention. I rarely go because of the need to leave before the end. It's also not a venue for children or for fitting in eating. Nor indeed for the "prolier-than-thou" inverted f*lk snob who shushes the slightest utterance.

As long as I can get back to a London terminus from any such godforsaken venue by 0100 or so, the Polish shops by my station stay open till after the last tube goes through at 01.30. This solves the eating problem but not the annoyance of missing the final third of the set list in the guest's second half. I look forward confidently to tut-tutting and whingeing about my running around London in the middle of the night instead of playing happy families, but I won't be reading them.

Other venues manage to provide a lot more possibilities and this, fortunately, is a growing trend. From Vic's description, I don't think his part-timers were actually complaining that the facilities didn't suit them but I imagine they'd be better pleased if they could do all they wanted in situ, as it were. To cite the old Spitz yet again, a set-up with a separate restaurant or like the Jazz Café with eating space on a balcony overlooking the stage would fit the bill,

And if people want to spend more hours away from their progeny than the neighbours can tolerate, the simple answer is to pay someone else. Or sell them or something. Not that I think it's a suitable subject for discussion here.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: matt milton
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:02 AM

The Kit & Cutter night in Deptford isn't the only folk night in London to attract a young demographic. Most people here seem to have heard of Magpie's Nest and maybe the Goose Is Out too.

But both Easycome Acoustic (every Wednesday at the Old Nun's Head in Nunhead; been going for over 15 years) and the Lantern Society (1st and 3rd Sunday at the Betsey Trotwood, Farringdon) also attract young audiences.

The majority of the performers at those two are in their 20s and 30s.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: BobKnight
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:05 AM

As regards food and folk music - I was at a club last year where food was served. It was an afternoon sing-around and as the performers were singing the waiter continually appeared with plates of food, shouting out things like "fish and chips," or "baked potato and salad" with total disregard for the performers. In this case, food and folk definitly didn't mix.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:05 AM

Lack of sufficient intelligence to read what has been said... godforsaken... hick... neighbours' tolerance of progeny... selling options... Though I believe some (much? all?) of that to be tongue-in-cheek, just leg-pulls, people's sense of humour varies widely. There comes a time to lay down the spade, or the perspective can only narrow.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:10 AM

There was a place I used to go to where the shellfish seller used to barge in with his basket shouting "Cockles, mussels, whelks . . . " no matter what was occurring.
It was hilarious.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:17 AM

Ah, now look what Ian A has just put up on fRoots:
http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16583#16583

Won't be short of teenagers, I'd like to bet.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: matt milton
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:26 AM

Yeah, having gone worryingly quiet at the end of last year, the Magpies Nest fellers seem to now be expanding into a franchise. They appear to now have two sub-groups: Folklahoma and Two For Joy, with a slightly different emphasis on each one. Some interesting stuff lined up for the rest of their year. Though no open mic spots at the Stokey gigs unfortunately.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:35 AM

More details of what Matt is on about at
http://www.themagpiesnest.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:10 AM

Ah, now look what Ian A has just put up on fRoots:

I'd go if there was any way of getting back from the hell hole of inner city Borisville late at night without getting mugged.

The Snail (58)


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:20 AM

Looks a good gig. Might just make it...


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:10 AM

From what I remember of my teenage years, some young people will find it more comfortable to mix socially with their grandparents' generation (who are interestingly old) rather than with their parents' generation (who are just boringly out-of date). In our schooldays many of us actively sought out much older singers precisely because of their links with the past.

My impression is that, having largely missed a generation, traditional music is beginning to blossom again. It's happened before: Bob and Ron Copper made the conscious decision to preserve their family's songs by singing them rather than just by keeping Jim Copper's book on the shelf at a time when their contemporaries were drawn away by the new American stuff. Not that the Coppers didn't sing some of that, too, I think - correct me if I'm wrong.

The new generation will find their own places for making music, just as ours did. They'll pick the most appealing aspects of what we still do. The music will survive because it's enormously strong in itself.

Emily and Hazel Askew were excellent at the Royal Oak in Lewes last night.

Valmai (54, Lewes)


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:34 AM

Take one established club

then

How about inviting/offering these younger folks to organize one evening a month say where they take total charge !?

If you give them the responsibility its one way to go, at least worth a consideration

We were younger once !


But would we let go the reigns, ? and then start up another club ? and proliferate ?

Nah, we dont want to 'Let go'

Just a thought
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:37 AM

Emily and Hazel Askew were excellent at the Royal Oak in Lewes last night.

Indeed they were. They're welcome to mix socially with me anytime, by the way, as I am certainly old enough to be their granddad (unlike these young things of 54...).

Will


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,Folkboy
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:45 AM

Talking about teenagers in the on the folk scene go and see Lucy Ward (BBC Young Folk Award 2009 Finalist) at Croxdale Folk Club next Tuesday or at the Red Lion in Birmingham on the 9th May. She was excellant at the Nettlebed earlier this month.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:08 AM

Son of Mumblin Len has followed his dad's love of 1920s/30s blues. Ben Little is 15 and playing in Folk Clubs. He is again in the New Roots final, and has a residency at Orpington Folk Club. We have now produced a demo CD of Ben's work, and are looking for bookings, ( no matter how small) for him. Just so long as the petol cost is covered, any surplus will go into his guitar fund. You can listen to a couple of his blues songs here.
Ben's Myspace


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:16 AM

Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: George Papavgeris - PM
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:15 AM

"A good sign, undoubtedly. But treewind above asked the really important question. Otherwise I see the poor youngsters ending up as fodder for audiences of ageing folkies drooling over the memories of when they were themselves like once upon a time."

Oh, at that age, a little drool won't hurt them. Just wipe them off with a napkin or a paper towel and they'll be as good as new.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: LesB
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:37 PM

The pretty youthfull Rubus are at the Bothy Folk Club Southport on Sunday night (19th April)
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: breezy
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM

That Ben Little is O K

but will clubs give him a decent hearing ?

Look after him and nurture him , though let him explore all musical avenues.

re the roots date , when and where is it? St Albans,


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:02 PM

New Roots 2009 is being held at The Trestle Arts Base Russet Drive,on the outskirts of St Albans on April 26th. We have no definite time at present, but last year's lasted all day, and we had to arrive by 10am. The under eighteen concert takes place in the morning, and it looks like Ben is on last again, if they go in the order on the website. Last year he was on at around midday It's a free day out and very entertaining. Nancy Kerr and James fagan are amongst the judges this year.
New Roots2009


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM

Although we are not pushing Ben into anything, he loves to play in folk clubs, and wants to be a professional folk musician. We'll be there for him whatever direction he ends up travelling. He is a rare breed of teenager who is focussed.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: breezy
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

Will direct the Flegg and though I will try to make it, if I dont its cos I have 2 sons performing that same day day and its a 3 line whipping if I dont go to the right place, so a performance time would be most useful.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:25 PM

He is a rare breed of teenager who is focussed.

In my experience they are far from rare. It's just that only a tiny minority of them are focussed on folk music. Elsewhere they are making a series of marvellous noises...


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM

Well, they haven't even given Ben his options sheet for gigs yet, let alone a definite performance time. We'd love you to come, so try emailing alison mcfarlane - she must know what's going on.


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,Pigstrings
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM

Let's face it, folk clubs are really designed by and for the generation which grew up with them. I think it is far more important for youngsters to enjoy performing music - of whatever sort - for the joy of doing it, rather than to achieve some dubious "celebrity" status. The best contribution folk clubs can make to this (if they want to) is to be somewhere youngsters can practice playing in public; without any nonsense about whether it's "not folk" or "too traditional" or "Fred's song".

I am most amused by the fact that those whippersnappers Norscalordie play with gusto and enthusiasm songs I learned at junior school in the 1960s off Singing Together. Now, which is more traditional - learning them from the BBC or learning them from records/cds by "folk musicians"? Is recorded music part of the oral tradition? If it is then every rock covers band is playing British folk music!!


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 07:53 PM

Oh Dear.... Don't start them off again... the Norcsalordie knockers (no pun intended) I mean...


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Subject: RE: Teenagers in Folk Club! Shock! Horror!
From: Aeola
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 12:57 PM

Interesting thread but I dare say youthful singing & entertainment will win the day whatever is said!!


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