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A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle

Related threads:
What should Susan Boyle sing next? (467) (closed)
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BS: Catherine Zeta Jones to play Susan Boyle (30)
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Subject: A Most Heartwarming Performance
From: bobad
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:19 PM

This is a YouTube clip of an incredible performance by a woman, Susan Boyle, taken from an episode of Britains Got Talent 2009. When she first walks out on stage and is answering questions from the panel there is barely subdued snickering and you could just tell that everyone was expecting her to fall flat on her face - she was being prejudged based on her appearance. Boy, does she prove them wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:28 PM

I stumbled onto this last night when it was a link on yahoo page news. No one could make up anything this good. She's wonderful.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:34 PM

I thought there was a thread on it, but maybe I also saw it on Yahoo.

Wonderful singer. It's nice to see a non-glamorous woman singer get recognition.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance
From: meself
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

I'm sure it's my new meds - but this practically had me blubbering ...


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

Thanks, bobad. Nice to see people learn not to judge a talent by its cover, so to speak.:-) Reminded me of that young man over there who sang opera and blew them all away.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 03:46 PM

She can sing for sure. I think her natural personality worked a treat for her too. Good luck to a brave woman.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bobad
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 04:08 PM

Well meself, I'm not on any meds and it nearly had me blubbering too.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 05:23 PM

Holybloodyfuckinchrist.....................What a voice!!!!! Blubbering? You betcher ass I am............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 06:52 PM

Yep ...... they are running down my face. I want to follow how she does. I have a new hero, and her name is Susan Boyle. Just what I needed on a day I was feeling a bit down.

Mick


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 07:14 PM

Here is one of her several Fansites. She was quite touching...I missed this bit:

Before her performance, Miss Boyle told Geordie hosts Ant and Dec that she's "never had a boyfriend" and she has "never been kissed before". Her previous singing experience was limited to the church choir and karaoke.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:15 PM

I saw this last night and was very moved. The link given in this thread showed a little more of her pre and post show. I'm so glad for this brave lady who dared to appear on a stage where youth and physical perfection are so important, and triumphed! Good for her!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SussexCarole
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:19 PM

Yes, yes, yes! She was wonderful. Zapped all those cruddy mainsteam stiffs right between the eyes. What a woman and what a voice!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Barbara
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:20 PM

I thought it was delightful too. Robinia shipped it to me the same day it happened, and, at the same time another folkie shipped it to me at facebook.(I live in Oregon, US. It's fun to see what a global community we are when something like this happens.
Charming. I really liked how she told the backstage boys that she was going to rock that huge house, and how she didn't let the chaff the judges gave her get to her. A role model for us all.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Amos
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM

This came to us from a friend in town and had us both weeping for her.

"Here's a plump, 47-year-old woman with bushy eyebrows, graying hair, from a
village in England, who's never been married or kissed, and lives with her
cat. See what happened on the English version of American Idol. Click the
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY"


Wow. An amazing episode.

Somebodu clue me in-- what does it mean if someone on such a show garners three "Yes" votes from the judges?


A


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SussexCarole
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:38 PM

Does it matter if she's plump, greying etc etc?   NO NO NO! Wow can this lady can sing...and she is a beautiful person! Sing your heart out Susan


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM

If you really look at her, though, she's not really even plump. She just has a bit of extra skin under her chin. She stood pretty tall and slim by all accounts...not very many curves, but she sure showed she knew how to wiggle it!

Amos, I think it means she moves up to the next stage of the competition.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:56 PM

"Here's a plump, 47-year-old woman with bushy eyebrows, graying hair, from a
village in England ……………"


Hate to be picky, but she comes from West Lothian, in Scotland, not England. But she is British and proves the point of the programme – that Britain's Got Talent. Susan Boyle has it in spades.

DC


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:08 PM

Lovely singer. Great clip from the show, too.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:32 PM

I dunno' what she gets for the show win thing but what she needs is a record contract.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Michael Harrison
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 11:50 PM

WOW, absolutely wonderful. Well, Meself and Bobad - it brought tears from my eyes without a doubt. I hope someone gets behind her and she gets the chance to take her voice as far as she wants to go with it. As for me - how dare I call myself a pro, I can't hold a candle to that top-shelf voice, no way.

Listening to Susan Boyle reminds me of the time several years ago when I attended a local church production of the play, "The Passion." There was a lady who came out three times dressed as an angel and sang songs with one of the most beautiful, full, enchanting voices I had ever heard. I asked to see her after the show and she approached me as timid as a schoolchild. She was a rather short lady, about thirty-five, built like a pear and rather
plain looking to my eyes. I asked her where I could go and hear her perform and she told me nowhere but in church. She said she had been singing all of her life, she said she was "just" a mother of several children and she sings in church, and that's all. Wow!

When I was much younger, a player I respected told me that you have to keep your chops up because there's a "monster" on ever corner just waiting to take your place. So right, so very, very, right.
Give 'em hell Susan Boyle, you deserve it. Cheers,..........mwh


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:41 AM

Its worth watching over and over again to see the look on the judges' faces when she starts singing! It takes them about to two seconds to realise that their preconceptions are utterly and totally wrong.....

There's a whole lecture on body language and facial expressions in there (as well as some great singing!)

KP


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Subject: The Wonder that is....Susan Boyle
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 12:22 PM

George, I think you may like this. Forgive me for not putting it in your earlier thread from the same show, but..I think this lady deserves a thread of her own.

Susan - Youtube

Transferred to existing thread. Please check before starting new threads. This is a duplicate.


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Subject: RE: The Wonder that is....Susan Boyle
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 12:27 PM

She does indeed, I caught her on youTube yesterday.
I think the judge's behaviour a little suspect, probably stagemanaged. After all, the acts had been seen by others before, for vetting, so I am sure the judges were forewarned. The audience's reaction was genuine however. A clever bit of manipulation, as they let them snigger first, then led them into cheers.

Having said that, Susan is very good, and she has a powerful voice and a bubbly personality. It would be good to see the underdog score one in the end.

transferred from deleted thread


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 12:38 PM

Not to mention the idiots in the audience who are snickering at her ... they soon changed their tune, didn't they!! I was on Facebook earlier this afternoon, and was alerted to the Youtube video by Will Pound ... and I have now watched it several times. It's a difficult and very emotional song to nail ... and boy did she nail it!!! roll on the next round...


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 02:30 PM

Yeah, that was one of the most amazing parts of it for me. The way the expressions on the faces of members of the audience changed, and the judges too.
                She really wowed them!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Amergin
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 03:38 PM

Apparently Cowell is already in talks with her over a record deal....


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 03:50 PM

Great voice, marvellous personality but a stage managed bit of shmaltz. Of course they were in on the joke. The producer would have said, 'best cynical faces you three, camera 2 look for any teenagers taking the piss and give her like shit off your shoe routine Amanda sweetie.'


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Subject: Susan Boyle Performance
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:10 PM

Susan Boyle's performance on Britain's got Talent is not to be missed.This programme has the tendency to take the piss out of everyone who performs on it and Susan was in for the works. She turned this on it's head by a truly fantastic performance of "I have a Dream" from "Les Miserables".
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:20 PM

Sorry I posted a new thread before I saw this one down the page.
She gets me crying every time I watch it.
Perhaps this will stop the micky taking.
Truly wonderful
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SylviaN
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 06:38 PM

True talent - amazing!

Sing, sing, sing and sing.

Sylvia


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:06 PM

I must disagree wholeheartedly with your jaded view, glueman. That wasn't contrived, as much as you'd like to convince us. Half the charm of the video is the realization, in several micro-expressions amongst them, of just how wrong their original assumptions were.

I wonder several things after watching that. I know people (folkies!) who have very average looks and have wonderful voices. They're not famous either. If you look like Alison Krause or Emmylou Harris, your career goes one way. If you look like Susan Boyle, your career doesn't get off the ground because you don't get your mouth open. This was a remarkably brave and joyous thing for Ms. Boyle to do, and when she turned to walk off stage after singing her song you could see that singing before a large audience was her main objective and she had achieved it. When they called her back that was the icing on the cake, but she'd had her cake and she'd eaten it, so to speak. She didn't need the icing, though was at the same time very happy with it. It might seem contradictory to say that, but look at her when she turns to walk off the stage. "I did it. Mission accomplished. That showed them."

Who will be first in line to tell her to color her hair, pluck her brows, get some surgery to reduce those chins? Who will be the first to suggest that she has the "fix" her appearance to go with the voice? The brows and hair are things that many women of all ages have doctored, but here's hoping she resists the nonsense that she must conform to have a career. Put some elegant clothes on, they will fit the voice and the venues and her character, and that will be enough. Get out of her way and let her sing! (Wouldn't it be nice if Elaine Page took her in hand and helped launch a new career? Would a star do that for a rising talent? It's nice to consider.)

This is a Cinderella story for thinking middle-aged women of average appearance. You go, Susan!

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 07:18 PM

"That wasn't contrived, as much as you'd like to convince us"

Sorry SRS, that's how TV works. How long do you think it takes to set up a shot of people tittering? If the panel weren't in on it the production crew were.
It doesn't detract anything from her performance which was excellent. A marvellous singer.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM

I finally got to see Susan Boyle sing - Barracuda blocked it at the office. I too was in tears. So where has she been for the last forty years? Where did she learn to sing like that?

Her career will be fun to watch.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Michael Harrison
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:47 PM

Stilly River Sage - I appreciate your comments; and, I, for one, have long been a protester on behalf of women in music because talent alone will not get them the same distance as a man - they must look good as well. It's a sad situation but it is the music "business." Truth is that good looks get you places in all walks of life that plain looks - all else being equal - just can't get you.

You did mention two of my favoites, Emmylou and Allison Krause.
I might suggest that you take a look at AK when she first came out compared to the way she looks now - today she looks totally different from 1993 and is much prettier than she used to be. It could be that she matured into a prettier woman, but, knowing this business, I would bet that she was "advised" to make some "changes" and "modifications" to her appearance by the Nashville mafia. Either way, she is a great talent. Cheers,.............mwh


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:55 PM

I found the you tube clip yesterday when CNN started reporting it.
I've emailed it to lots of friends.
It is wonderful. I cried.
I've watched it over and over again, as well as finding interviews of Susan on you tube after the performance.
I hope she wins.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:04 PM

By the way, I also saw a news clip of the cast of Les Miserables watching the video of her performance. If I can find a copy of it, I'll post a link.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:21 PM

I was expecting a fine performance from bobad's introduction, but that was one of the most amazing performances I've ever seen--a truly wonderful voice, great interpretation, and how can you account for her stage presence? She was not in the least intimidated--a bit of a quaver during the questioning when she had difficulty completing the phrase "a collation of villages," but when the accompaniment began it was as if she had been singing it on stage nightly for a year's run of the play, and now it was a celebratory closing night.

Charles


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:04 PM

glueman, the audience was filmed also, it was simultaneous cameras and they were cutting back and forth between the cameras on Boyle, on the judges, and the audience reactions. Is that what you consider "contrived?" That's just editing, not a setup. They can predict that there will be some faces they want to bring in to add drama. But it wasn't set up in advance.

Michael, I noticed the last time I saw a clip of Paul Potts, who turned up on that show in 2007, that he had had the chipped tooth fixed and his hair is longer. He dresses better. It'll be interesting to see what kind of makeover Susan encounters.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 10:38 PM

Here is the video with the cast of Les Miserable discussing Susan's performance.

Watch to the end of this for the cast's comments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh533QXr7VM


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 11:11 PM

I've never been to Les Miserables, but I did pull up a cast recording on NetFlix to take a look at. I suspect this will boost the attention to that sound track.

Over on YouTube there is a nice 10th Anniversary version with Ruthie Henshall.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 11:32 PM

I love it!

A bit like a replay of Paul Potts. Dumpy little guy with crooked teeth walks out on stage, says he sings opera. Judges roll their eyes and audience members slide down in their seats.

And in both cases, when Paul Potts and Susan Boyle started to sing, in addition to beautiful, strong voices, you could hear the thumps of jaws hitting the floor! Marvelous!!

(Sorry you're having such a tough day, glueman. Might I suggest a dose of Metamucil? You'll feel much better in the morning.)

Don Firth

P. S. Just a thought:   Just suppose it was a set-up, which I very seriously doubt. It does not alter the fact that Susan Boyle has an excellent singing voice and she handles it very well.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:16 AM

Sorry you think I'm being grumpy. I know the biz. The idea the judges weren't cued to expect something and the production floor to collect certain images is mistaken. The cameras were telling a story about a dumpy woman with a brilliant voice performing to a jaded audience.

She still has that brilliant voice though I await Susan Boyle meets Trinny and Suzanna Special.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Marje
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:44 AM

To those who don't know the show: three Yeses from the judges just means that she goes through to the next round - they have to get at least two of the judges to say yes, and it's not always unanimous. Part of the drama of the show revolves around the different standards and expectations of the three judges, and disagreements among them.

And to some extent it is set up in advance - there are thousands od entrants and they get screened at initial auditions before some are selected to perform in front of the panel. The ones shown on TV include the good, the bad and the ugly, as well as the quirky and surprising ones, and also those with and interesting background story. The producers know roughly what category each of the acts comes into and they "milk" the competitors for maximum effect. That's their job, and it doesn't detract from the genuine surprise and humble admiration shown by the panel and the audience in a case like this. She can't have been established or known in any professional sense, or someone would have spoken up by now.

It's certainly got me hooked - I'll be watching next time to see how Susan Boyle gets on. And they'd better not try to turn her into a cloned Stepford Singer!

Marje


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Becks
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 07:23 AM

Yep blubbering!

I do wish people wouldnt judge a book by its cover. You don't watch people when they play on your hi-fi! It's what they sound like that matters. For some people looks is all they have, I'd take a talent like that any day.

Becks (also plump!)


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:00 AM

Two words. Holy Shit!
Now I know why women weep at weddings. I've never been more impressed by any performer.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:03 AM

Please let us know when the next round comes up!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:04 AM

We saw this first on the news and have just watched the whole thing for the first time. What an amazing woman! Her personality is as big as her voice and, once she started singing, her looks just didn't matter - I, for one, got carried away by that voice.

I'm glad to see that Cowell is already talking to her about a contract. This is one talent that deserves all the sunlight it can get.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:14 AM

The audience isn't so much jaded as shallow and judgemental.

Believe it or not, singing experience "limited to the church choir" can be the best training of all. One learns how to sing harmony, timing, projection, without damaging habits, with dynamics and expression, with humility and purpose. I've seen more than a few such singers.

Susan Boyle is a genuine ray of sunshine. I hope she rides that voice to genuine acceptance, credibility, and success. Being an anti-star might just make her a star.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:04 AM

Here is an interview with one of the judges, Amanda Holden. The question is asked about whether Susan Boyle's image would be made-over. Amanda says, I won't let her go to Simon's hairdresser.

video of interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyG2aG_bBjQ

She hopes to have a career like Elaine Page, and I think her voice is better than Elaine Paige's voice.

Regarding the "staging" of the cameras getting reactions, I think the main point is that the judges do not hear the performers before the first time they go on stage, so as Amanda attested, it was a complete surprise to the judges and the audience. Yes, I agree, production crew was aware that they needed to capture reactions, but they do that with the contestants who are given the thumbs down, too. Obviously, she had to pre-audition with the rest of the competitors, so the screening staff knew that she had talent. If you watch video of contestants who are buzzed off right away, you see that the cameras capture audience and judge reactions then, too.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:37 AM

I suspect the producers of this program play their cards pretty close to the vest, so to speak, to heighten the effect for any candidates they put forward for consideration. I imagine there were a few production folks watching with glee for the expected initial responses, and the quick turn-around once she opened her mouth.

cloned Stepford Singer!
Ha!

Thanks for the program description, Marje. I don't watch those programs here, so I wouldn't have the routine worked out from this side of the Atlantic. I'm glad to learn that 2 out of 3 does get someone advanced.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,USA Supporter
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:50 AM

no matter what this woman has a set of pipes and should have a contract, as a loyal viewer of American Idol and America's Got Talent, I've never seen ANYONE and I mean ANYONE with more talent in all the years these shows have been on.

What impressed me the most is that Simon was shocked, he never smiles that much or gives that much praise to anyone on American Idol not that some don't deserve it they do but this lady definately deserves a CONTRACT and I would fly back to London to see her perform the show on stage with the cast as well.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:09 AM

I watched some of the other videos from the show and it is definitely a kinder/gentler Simon. He would torn the Evans family apart on American Idol. Loved the Greek Lord of the Dance. I laughed until I cried.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: glueman
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:14 AM

Oops. I meant to say Simon's mind was probably going ker-ching!£$£$£$£$


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:16 AM

So.... MY first thought was- does she know any old Scots ballads.

Who would like to her her sing "Jock O' Hazeldean"?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:26 AM

Jock o' Hazeldean should, generally speaking, be left alone by all but Dick Gaughan.

I once used the same accountant that Cameron Mackintosh employs.
I can only assume that he charged the impresario more than he charged me because the accountant was total rubbish at evading the grasping rats 'n' cats and I have subsequently done it myself for a far lower tax bill.

It passes my understanding why anyone would want to sing any of the MOR mush out of his productions in the first place.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:38 AM

"
Jock o' Hazeldean should, generally speaking, be left alone by all but Dick Gaughan.


Tsk...I was blown away the 1st time I heard Jean Redpath sing it...and we have a friend here who sings it quite well. She is not famous, but neither was Susan Boyle.

I do not & WILL not subscribe to the idea that only certain people should attempt certain songs.

Now...back to Susan Boyle, who I still wish did folk music. Maybe she does.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:41 AM

I can think of a dozen or so songs I'd like to hear her sing....
Dumbarton's Drums
A Mother's Kiss
Castle of Drumoore

among others....


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Subject: Review: Susan Boyle
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:45 AM

Surprised that nobody has mentioned this. If you'd like to see someone soar watch and listen to this, the clip is just over 7 minutes long but stick with it for 1 minute 59 seconds to see an entire audience completely astounded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY

Absolutely brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Review: Susan Boyle
From: Stu
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:48 AM

There's another thread on this T - this might get bumped onto it.

A complete joy to watch - good on her!


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Subject: RE: Review: Susan Boyle
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:49 AM

Null point for observation, teribus, there have been two threads on this already (now combined)


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Subject: RE: Review: Susan Boyle
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:55 AM

Just saw the other thread, my eyesight must be failing as I did check down through the thread titles before I posted, apologies to all.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:05 PM

It's nice to see that Teribus agrees with so many Mudcatters about SOMETHING!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

4 hours, 18 minutes ago
   Unlikely singing sensation eyes date with queen

Story Highlights
Unexpected star grabs spotlight with more than 11 million YouTube hits

Susan Boyle fans want her to release an album -- now

Performance on "Britain's Got Talent" won standing ovation
   
(CNN) -- Television and YouTube singing sensation Susan Boyle has promised to be on her best behaviour if she wins the right to sing for the queen.

Susan Boyle sings "I Dreamed a Dream" -- and becomes a worldwide sensation.

The 47-year-old Boyle, who says she has never been kissed, was catapulted into the spotlight after her rendition of "I Dreamed a Dream" from the musical "Les Miserables," on the television show "Britain's Got Talent" at the weekend.

The winner of the show gets to sing for the queen at the Royal Variety Show.

Boyle has a long way to go though -- having just won through to the second round after judge Simon Cowell described her first performance as "extraordinary."

Still, she was already thinking of how she would behave.

"Whatever comes my way, I am ready. It would be lovely to sing for the queen. There would be less of the carry on from me, and more of the singing.

"She is a very regal lady, very nice, so I would be nice too, and just get up there and give it a bit of wellie (try)," Boyle told the show's Web site.

Boyle said she was trying to take her new found fame in her stride.

"It's a challenge. Life is a challenge sometimes but this is different. And I like to test myself.

"If it all gets too much and they lock me up, I want a great big strait-jacket with spots on it. A pink one... and a big zip on the back so I can escape."

A clip of Boyle's performance had more than 11 million views on YouTube by Thursday, and the world's media have beaten a path to her door in Blackburn, West Lothian, Scotland.

Cowell is reportedly already trying to piece together a record deal for Boyle, an unemployed charity worker, who lives with her cat, Pebbles.

For fans of Boyle, who attracted laughs and sniggers when she first appeared on stage before winning a standing ovation, the album cannot come quick enough.

CNN has been inundated with hundreds of messages of support for Boyle.

Simone said: "I've been so depressed all day but hearing this woman sing and reading her story gave me a pick-me-up... I look forward to hearing more of her and I hope to buy her CD as soon as it hits the shelves."

Cynthia wanted Cowell to move quickly.

"She brought tears to my eyes and a lump in my throat. I hope Simon does get her a record contract...I'll buy her CD. Never judge a book by it's cover. Susan Boyle, you go, girl!"

Jim described Boyle's talent as "unbelievable" and "beautiful."

"I wish Susan the very best in her new life and hopefully someone has put her under contract. Thank you for such a beautiful song."

Larry wanted to offer Boyle a kiss.

"I have just heard you sing for the first time -- thanks to CNN -- and I must tell you this: You are a fabulous talent, simply amazing to me that no one took advantage of your voice and passion up until now. I am a happily married man, but if I were not, and if I was in the audience, I can guarantee you that I would ask for a kiss, and if you were gracious enough to indulge me, well that would have been one of the great highlights of my life. Looking forward to the first of many albums."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:20 PM

When she announced what song she was going to sing, one of the panel was heard to remark "Big song". The thing that amazed me with the performance was within three lines of lyrics she had the whole audience on their feet applauding like mad. Don't quite know how you'd stage manage that. At forty seconds into the pre-performance interview with Ant & Dec the lady said that she was going to "rock" the audience - she certainly did that. She thought she had the audience after the first verse, she knew it as she paused in the small instrumental interlude before the last verse and then she really let them have it, as beautiful and perfect as watching a Spitfire perform a "victory" roll. The very best of luck and good fortune to her - absolutely magnificent!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:49 PM

well I have watched the video 3 times now and am still crying. And I don't like show tunes. I am just a soppy old emo-mamma who always falls for the underdog.

She has got magical stuff in that voice and her stage presence.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:05 PM

The performance of Ruthie Henshall in the actual play was of course brilliant, but in making any comparison between it and Susan Boyle's rendition you have to remember that Ruthie had a silent audience while Susan had to make her performance heard over the ecstatic screaming of the Britain's Got Talent audience, and had to stay in character and ignore the thrill she must have felt at that response all through the rest of her performance: absolutely amazing, mind blowing. Any of you think you could have accomplished that?

Charles


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: andrewq
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

It's nice to see an ordinary, unaffected, person show her talent in public despite dowdy looks. The hype machine, though, is incessant and calculated to "do another Paul Potts" for Mr Cowell's ratings and bank balance. It is a good rendition of the song but hardly in the same league as that of many pro performers. I'd wager that you'd find similarly unpackaged talent the length and breadth of the country in many an AmDram society or Find Your Voice evening class. The only difference is that a bit of ordinariness was permitted onto prime time TV in the updated Victorian freak show that the metropolitan sophisticates have named "Britain's Got Talent". Good luck to Ms Boyle, it seems she needs it, but let's hope she doesn't believe the PR machine when her 15 minutes are over...


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 02:27 PM

" Ordinariness"? Andrewq
Snobbishness Andrew?
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: andrewq
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 02:37 PM

Nothing wrong with ordinariness, Alan. Except when the marketing folk try to persuade us it is the second coming. Ms Boyle sang well enough but only got air time because she looked odd enough to build a marketable story around. Like all of these unreality programmes it is the backstory and how it is cynically mined that sells.

"Roll up, roll up, see the tattooed lady...."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:04 PM

Re the recent post by Beardedbruce: it sounds more and more like the lady has a terrific, intelligent sense of humor to go with the rest.

Glamorous? not at all. Wikipedia says "Glamour originally described a magical-occult spell cast on somebody to make them believe that something or somebody was attractive".

Beautiful? Watch her beaming, when she's totally in the song, and she knows she has the audience wrapped around her finger.

Other unknowns out there who are just as good? Probably; but any of them who are that good aren't a dime a dozen; any of them that good are that many undiscovered treasures.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM

Andrewq = there is absolutely nothing ordinary about what she achieved. She sang in front of a 4000 strong audience in the theatre, in front of three fairly intimidating and jaded adjudicators, in front of television cameras ... this is a woman who had only done small scale theatre and village hall type stuff before. She sang a VERY big ballad, with emotional overtones (considering her personal position, also very close to home) in front of an audience that was going nuts .... all enough I would have thought to phase even a seasoned performer... but she kept going, she sold the song, and she didn't falter. There is absolutely NOTHING ordinary about that at all. The marketable story has nothing whatsoever to do with her own personal achievement. All power to her - it cannot have been an easy thing to do, whatever anyone may think of her voice, performance or personal looks and background. She is now faced with super-high expectations from the audience in the next round - and that will not be easy to live up to either. It will be interesting to see how she copes and what she delivers up ... but there is still nothing ORDINARY about what she achieved.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:17 PM

the 11 million hits on you-tube aren't all due to "media hype" either. Sure - they might not have started without CNN coverage - but then again - they might have.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:00 PM

We need another Elaine Page like a hole in the head.

There are many singers with voices as good or better and equally unstereotypical looks who have FAR better taste. (Chris Miles or Gordeanna McCulloch, say).

If she sticks to that schlock I will be following her career with the utmost apathy.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:05 PM

Sorry to jump your case about this, glueman, but I have to admit I do tend to get a bit irked by the kind of person who insists on spoiling a perfectly good party by tossing a cigar in the punch bowl. I find your comments downright cynical. Maybe you do "know the biz," but so do I. In addition to my singing, I've spent a fair amount of my life in both television and radio studios, both on camera or mic, and in the production and planning end.

I think Marje has the right of it. Undoubtedly the initial screeners knew they had a "live one," but I'm sure the judges and the audience were hit between the eyes with the unexpected.

And I'm afraid that andrewq gets the same award for sourpuss of the month. What's the matter with you people!??

Ms. Boyle sang better—much better—than "well enough." In fact, I've heard a fair amount of Elaine Paige, the singer that Susan Boyle said she wants to emulate. Elaine Paige is a real powerhouse singer with a marvelous voice for the kind of songs she does. And Susan Boyle's singing voice is right up there in terms of strength and quality. Slightly different in the sense that Boyle's voice actually sounds a bit more "youthful" than Paige's.

When a person can sing like that, it doesn't matter what they look like. And the more I heard her sing, the more beautiful she got.

I'm looking forward to hearing much more of her.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:12 PM

Nicely put Don.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:34 PM

It occurs to me there is another reason this story is so charming. Anyone else see the shade of Charlotte Vale here? This aspect may be a "chick thing."

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 04:48 PM

Wow! Well spotted, Maggie!

No, I don't think it's just a "chick thing." It's classic ducklings and swans.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 05:48 PM

There is no marketing folk Andrew.There will be but there isn't now.
Her performance was watched live by millions ,it is acclaimed by millions,nobody was trying to sell anything Andrew this was someone getting up on stage and doing a fantastic performance.She had her chance and delivered. There are many talented people out there,I agree, is that what you are trying to say? If they get up and perform equally as well we can applaud it, you may not .If you did not enjoy it,or you think Elaine Page should have pushed Susan out of the way and sang it,why not say so.Just remember that Elaine Page took her chance in the same way as Susan Boyle, the leading lady being ill and at the last minute Elaine being her understudy took the part and was an immediate success.
You summed it all up nicely Surrey Singer.

Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:26 PM

Susan has been cornered by the American morning television programs late this week. I watched part of an interview with CBS folks (go to Google News and enter her name and you'll find lots of links to stories). She looked rather cornered, and she needs a coach and some time if people are going to be setting up and doing television interviews. Eye contact doesn't matter for radio, but it does make a difference in television. Now that she's on the horizon, I hope people relax and give her time to catch her breath and get moving in a productive direction!

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 07:05 PM

Not going to throw any cigars in the punchbowl. I just do not like "reality" shows and wish for more of the classic dramatic TV of yore---and which BBC still offers at times. That said---Susan Boyle---WOW.   

This has spread like wildfire on the internet and yesterday NPR covered it at length on radio---dare I say the wireless.

I watched it and was mesmerized.   Like the audience I thought--"...what the hell is this---another wannabe on a second rate (though popular) TV show.   It was like Toscanini had walked on stage wearing a mask and no one knew what greatness would follow. I can only hope she gains some fame and fortune from this since she has the talent that some of the "fluff" people (name your favorites---I nominate Hilton, Spears, etc;) do not.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 07:46 PM

I don't like the cigars in the punchbowl either, but I do agree that Susan's sudden immense popularity is partly due to the contrast between (visual) image and vocal excellence-plus-stage presence.   I do hope that she neither finds fame/success limited to '15 minutes' nor feels she has to have some "extreme makeover (complete with lipo, dental caps, etc.) to be a star.
There was a time when some of our biggest stars, both male and female, were not "lookers." Ella Fitzgerald (who was initially told she'd never make it because she was "too fat and too ugly"), Kate Smith, Mama Cass Eliott, Janis Joplin, etc., were accepted for their talent. TV tended to change that, for women especially.   (The men, it seems, when built like Meatloaf or Luther Vandross or as ugly as Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger are still accepted as presentable on video, while the two plus-size women who sang "It's Raining Men" found themselves replaced by the studio in their own video by much slimmer and more glamorous looking women. And nobody seemed to hold Pavarotti's weight against him as an operatic leading man.

Still, if Susan wanted to do either commercial Gospel or musical theatre, I'm not sure her appearance would have to be a big hurdle. Not all major roles in musicals call for a young, glamourous actor/singer, and Gospel music does seem to embrace many an "average-looking" or not-so-svelte singer.   I think Susan's got a great chance of launching a notable career from this exposure. (Especially if Simon Cowell's in her corner.)


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:28 PM

ATTENTION!! ATTENTION!!

Did I get your attention?

"Cry Me A River" sung by Susan Boyle on a charity CD recording in 1999, now uploaded to You Tube. Only 1000 copies made.
As reported by The Scottish Daily Record newspaper.

Listen to Susan deliver this song!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ

wow
I love this woman!

Alice


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:32 PM

Undoubtedly some of the positive reaction to Susan Boyle was due to the contrast between what one expects when they first see her (unfortunate, but true) and what one actually gets when she begins to sing. But the fact remains that even if she were a strikingly beautiful woman, this would neither enhance nor diminish the pleasure and surprise of hearing an extraordinary singing voice.

I don't know how well it could work in musical theater, but opera is legendary for "casting against type" as far as appearance is concerned:   the middle-aged and substantially overweight soprano singing the role of a twenty-year-old ingénue in the process of tragically dying of "consumption" (tuberculosis). This, of course, is a stereotype about opera which, especially within recent years, no longer holds true. With sopranos around who look like Renée Fleming (Cuter than a bug's ear) and Anna Netrebko (Very glamorous. In fact, here's another shot of the internationally famous operatic soprano), or, on the male side, guys who look like Russian baritone Dmitri Hvorostovsky or lyric tenor Juan Diego Florez, opera company directors these days are casting as much for appearance as for voice.

When it comes to musical theater, I know they do like to cast to type. In fact, I went to high school with a lad who had a fine, rich baritone when he was as young as sixteen. He tried his luck on Broadway, and after being told repeatedly, "Frank, you've got a great voice, but—(fill in cliché or your choice)." He finally got cast in "Damn Yankees." "Because," he told me, "they thought I looked like a baseball player!"

But there seems to be a fair amount of latitude. I personally didn't think Ethel Merman was all that gorgeous, and in addition, her singing voice sounded more like an air-raid siren than a human voice. I'll swap you eight Ethel Mermans for one Susan Boyle.

If the world of musical theater is so uncivilized that it would not cast her in vocally suitable roles, she could still have a fine singing career. I'm thinking of "ghost singer" Marnie Nixon, whose voice was all over the place in movies some years ago. She dubbed in the singing for Natalie Wood in "West Side Story," Audrey Hepburn in "My Fair Lady," and many others. Away from the movies, she had a substantial concert career. There is also the matter of recordings. But not just the usual collection of miscellaneous songs. One can get studio recordings of various full-length musical theater works acted and sung by singers who never actually did it on stage.

Just some random thoughts.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:36 PM

Ummmm, ...Don..
did you listen to Cry Me A River??
Or did you not see the link I posted.

Alice

Susan Boyle, Cry Me A River

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM

May True Love find you Susan...And I won't peek when you get that first kiss...You have uplifted Spirits around the world...Bless...bob

p.s. I could see Kate Smith smiling in Heaven...


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:51 PM

Gawd, I just love her phrasing on Cry Me A River.
I can't stop listening to it.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:54 PM

Aha! The "Cry Me a River" performance, despite some technical flaws in the recording, shows Susan Boyle has a wonderful instrument and fine expression, as fit for blues as for musical theater--and whattaya think she could do with folk ballads?

Charles


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:03 PM

Cross-posted, Alice. Tied up at the moment, so I'll catch it shortly. Sounds good!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:06 PM

"...Don..
did you listen to Cry Me A River??
Or did you not see the link I posted."

Do note, Alice...Don's post was only 4 minutes after yours. He probably spent 15-20 min. writing it.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:09 PM

Don, don't impugn Ethel Merman! That woman had pipes like nobody's business! She is in my personal favorites list--a triumvirate of big gorgeous voices for popular song--Judy Garland, Ethel Merman, and Barbra Streisand. Actually, I think I need to recategorize to whatever term is grandiose for quartet, because I think Betty Buckley fits in there also.   

So far we've heard Susan sing two songs (good detective work, Alice!), a lament and a blues ballad. They're lovely. I will wait patiently to see what else she comes up with. It has taken this long for her to be discovered, now people need to give her a little wiggle room to work out some good arrangements and go from there.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM

Watched it at least 7-8 times...with my eyes filled with tears.....BRAVO SUSAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:12 AM

I am crying a river after listening to song of same name. Think I am not going to be able to cope with seeing and hearing this Susan anymore.   

Makes me miss my Andie. She was a big girl (unlovely to some) with the kind of stage presence Susan boasts. One might think the voice is so startlingly good because of the surprise. One doesn't expect that power and skill from anyone who does not fit a prescribed physical aesthtic.

I know that Andie used to get sniggers and derision when she climbed the stage early in her high school years until she started singing. By end of sophomore (2nd) year the audience would shush each other when she came out.

There is just something in Susan (as was in Andie) that radiates love of what she doing and the desire to share it. In effect she makes love to the audience.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: andrewq
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:35 AM

So "unknown" Susan has previously made a record.... Just like "unknown" Paul Potts had actually appeared in several semi-pro productions and done workshops with Pavarotti.

As for there being no marketing involved, Alan, p-l-e-a-s-e. There were more editorial decisions to build the ecstatic hype in that few minutes of broadcast television than in the coming of the ObamaMessiah. The show is owned by Cowell. He has a history of short term promotion of unconventional looks for a quick buck (think Michelle McManus... Paul Potts... Susan Boyle...). The woman sang well. I wish her every success and hope she won't be spat out with the rest when her carefully stage-managed 15 minutes is up.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:40 AM

Oh please! There is a big difference between doing a limited edition charity recording and having a recording contract.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:46 AM

I mean to say - there are a large number of people who have never recorded anything else (though many have ) on the Mudcat CD's. If one of them hit it big would you say "Oh well - they recorded before - no big deal!" I doubt it!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:48 AM

Andrew do you honestly think this was all stage managed.That Cowell organised a group of his men to go up to Scotland sit down with Susan and pre arrange it all. I admit from now on it will be all stage managed but before hand ? I would think the man has better things to do with his time.She has obviously sung in public before and was not the complete innocent we were led to believe,but you cannot stage manage a performance like she did. She is now a World Wide star,Cowell is a better man than I Gunga Din, if he could pull this one off by pre arrangement, or the expressions of amazement by the members of the panel.
He certainly would have organised Paul Potts teeth treatment before the show.
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:06 AM

It has been stated that Susan had performed locally prior to her performance on TV.

So far as having recorded before - that applies to quite a number of people who wouldn't even dream of making it as a professional singer. Susan said that it was her ambition to sing in front of a big audience, something that she had clearly not done up to that time. There are many of us around who have sung to small local group and even got a track onto a CD that had some sales. That, to me, does not take away from what this woman has or what she can achieve with that wonderful voice.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:11 AM

BTW

I'm just listening to Cry Me A River. It must have had a very small circulation as I would hazard a guess that, if this had got to anyone who had any influence in these matters, this lady would have been picked up a lot earlier.

Just my opinion.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:00 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/16/AR2009041602419.html



"The Dream She Dreamed
Cheers for a Voice to Silence the Cynics

By Jeanne McManus
Friday, April 17, 2009

One of the engines that drive a cynical world in general and reality TV in particular is sparked by the friction between self-perception and fact. There's nothing quite like a stage and the hot spotlights of shows such as "American Idol" to make it clear to Everyman that his own measure of self-worth has just collided with a wall of three judges, and the results are messy blood sport for the viewing public.

Onto such a stage last weekend -- for the show "Britain's Got Talent" -- came Susan Boyle, and the setup was ripe. The solid-looking Scot in clumpy shoes and a dress the color of weak tea strode forward with the purposefulness of a woman who was going to dig a furrow for spring potatoes.

She had a streak of playfulness and shyness and a broad swath of uncowering dignity. And pride. She wanted to measure her talents against those of Elaine Paige, a British legend.

The eye-rolling public and the three jaded judges were waiting for her to squawk like a duck.

When I first saw the You Tube version of her performance of "I Dreamed a Dream," I kept looking for evidence of fraud in spite of the standing ovations of the live audience. From the first line of the first stanza, the confident yet angelic voice did not seem to match the workaday face and dark brows of the woman who was singing. It's a song about the loss of innocence and optimism. I hate the song. I hate "Les Misérables," the musical from which it comes. But I could not take my eyes off Susan Boyle, and I could not stop listening to her poised, pure notes, her perfect enunciation, her self-assured emotion. So I kept playing the song, and replaying it. I am usually front-row center in any audience of cynics, and I'm still not sick of it.

Sure, it would be nice if Boyle goes on to win the finals of this competition -- and even to meet the queen. But to me that's not the point. In a world that is sometimes rife with bloated résumés, stage mothers, fawning friends, self-adulation, narcissism and bedroom shelves holding too many meaningless trophies from middle school, here is a woman who took an accurate measure of her worth and put it to the test in the white-hot crucible of reality TV.


There's nothing wrong with pride. It's false pride that is the problem.

For now, the 47-year-old single woman has returned to Blackburn, her small village in Scotland, where I pray she can be preserved and defended from stylists, colorists, manicurists, eyebrow waxers, record producers, morning talk shows and other makeover mavens who will seek to dye her roots, define her waistline and steal her purity.

Which brings me to another point: Susan Boyle says she has never been kissed.

Men of Blackburn: What are you waiting for? "


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: NormanD
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:21 AM

I was attracted to this thread title because I once knew a young woman with the same name, and haven't seen her for 35+ years. She played a lap dulcimer she'd made herself and had a fine singing voice. Anyway, wrong woman.

My feelings rest with glueman over this. I wish her all the best, whatever it might mean for her. Call me what you will, but I'm not otherwise interested, nor in songs from "Les Mis", as popular as they are.

There was a good opinion piece in a UK newspaper y'day, which I've cut & pasted here, I think it makes some good points about the perception of beauty and attractiveness.


"It wasn't singer Susan Boyle who was ugly on Britain's Got Talent so much as our reaction to her"
Tanya Gold
          o The Guardian, Thursday 16 April 2009
         

"Is Susan Boyle ugly? Or are we? On Saturday night she stood on the stage in Britain's Got Talent; small and rather chubby, with a squashed face, unruly teeth and unkempt hair. She wore a gold lace dress, which made her look like a piece of pork sitting on a doily. Interviewed by Ant and Dec beforehand, she told them that she is unemployed, single, lives with a cat called Pebbles and has never been kissed. Susan then walked out to chatter, giggling, and a long and unpleasant wolf whistle.

Why are we so shocked when "ugly" women can do things, rather than sitting at home weeping and wishing they were somebody else? Men are allowed to be ugly and talented. Alan Sugar looks like a burst bag of flour. Gordon Ramsay has a dried-up riverbed for a face. Justin Lee Collins looks like Cousin It from The Addams Family. Graham Norton is a baboon in mascara. I could go on. But a woman has to have the bright, empty beauty of a toy - or get off the screen. We don't want to look at you. Except on the news, where you can weep because some awful personal tragedy has befallen you.

Simon Cowell, now buffed to the sheen of an ornamental pebble, asked this strange creature, this alien, how old she was. "I'm nearly 47," she said. Simon rolled his eyes until they threatened to roll out of his head, down the aisle and out into street. "But that's only one side of me," Susan added, and wiggled her hips. The camera cut to the other male judge, Piers Morgan, who winced. Didn't Susan know she was not supposed to be sexual? The audience's reaction was equally disgusting. They giggled with embarrassment, and when Susan said she wanted to be a professional singer, the camera spun to a young girl, who seemed to be at least half mascara.

She gave an "As if!" squeak and smirked. Amanda Holden, the female judge, a woman with improbably raised eyebrows and snail trails of Botox over her perfectly smooth face, chose neutrality. And then Susan sang. She stood with her feet apart, like a Scottish Edith Piaf, and very slowly began to sing Les Miserables' I Dreamed A Dream. It was wonderful.

The judges were astonished. They gasped, they gaped, they clapped. They looked almost ashamed. I was briefly worried that Simon might stab himself with a pencil, and mutter, "Et tu, Piers, for we have wronged Susan in thinking that because she is a munter, she is entirely useless." How could they have misjudged her, they gesticulated. But how could they not? No makeup? Bad teeth? Funny hair? Is she insane, this sad little Scottish spinster, beloved only of Pebbles the Cat?

When Susan had finished singing, and Piers had finished gasping, he said this. It was a comment of incredible spite. "When you stood there with that cheeky grin and said, 'I want to be like Elaine Paige', everyone was laughing at you. No one is laughing now." And it was over to Amanda Holden, a woman most notable for playing a psychotic hairdresser in the Manchester hair-extensions saga Cutting It. "I am so thrilled," said Amanda, "because I know that everybody was against you." "Everybody was against you," she said, as if Susan might have been hanged for her presumption. Why? Can't "ugly" people dream, you flat-packed, hair-ironed, over-plucked monstrous fool?

I know what you will say. You will say that Paul Potts, the fat opera singer with the equally squashed face who won Britain's Got Talent in 2007, had just as hard a time at his first audition. I looked it up on YouTube. He did not. "I wasn't expecting that," said Simon to Paul. "Neither was I," said Amanda. "You have an incredible voice," said Piers. And that was it. No laughter, or invitations to paranoia, or mocking wolf-whistles, or smirking, or derision.

We see this all the time in popular culture. Do you ever stare at the TV and wonder where the next generation of Judi Denchs and Juliet Stevensons have gone? Have they fallen down a Rada wormhole? Yes. They're not there, because they aren't pretty enough to get airtime. This lust for homogeneity in female beauty means that when someone who doesn't resemble a diagram in a plastic surgeon's office steps up to the microphone, people fall about and treat us to despicable sub-John Gielgud gestures of amazement.

Susan will probably win Britain's Got Talent. She will be the little munter that could sing, served up for the British public every Saturday night. Look! It's "ugly"! It sings! And I know that we think that this will make us better people. But Susan Boyle will be the freakish exception that makes the rule. By raising this Susan up, we will forgive ourselves for grinding every other Susan into the dust. It will be a very partial and poisoned redemption. Because Britain's Got Malice. Sing, Susan, sing - to an ugly crowd that doesn't deserve you."

Article here

Norman


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:26 AM

That's the one thing I don't believe. Dowdy - yes. But unattractive - no. It has been driving me crazy - where have I seen that woman before. Then it hit me. Bette Davis in Now Voyager. Go look if you don't believe me. In the beginning of the film Bette is dumpy and dowdy with heavy brows and an impending breakdown. Then she comes out of her caccoon (complete with butterfly cape). LOL
Wonder if Susan Boyle smokes?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:07 AM

She didn't have bad teeth. She isn't fat. She has clear skin, but is nondescript, and she doesn't fool with the affectations of cosmetics. Geez, Louise! It's not like Quasimodo rolled onto the stage last Saturday.

Mary, I beat you to the Now, Voyager allusion with a link several posts up. Shades of Charlotte Vale, indeed! :)

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:12 AM

yuppers - if people consider Susan "ugly" - they should meet some of my cowerkers.

Ordinary I can see being used as a description.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:38 AM

Good voice. I wish her every success. I didn't care much for the song from _Les Miserables_, but I thought version of "Cry Me a River" was very good. I usually hate when people say "interpret" instead of "sing", but in this case I think that's what she did, and very well, too.

The TV show, with all the eye-rolling and smirking followed by enthusiastic applause seemed to me to be as phony as a three dollar bill, or as bent as a three bob not, if you prefer. That's no reflection on Susan Boyle, though. I hope she grabs her chance and gets a part in a West End musical, if that's what she wants.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

"[...] or as bent as a three bob not"

I meant a "note", of course.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

One thing that disturbs me is that she must be reading/hearing all the articles and comments about how 'unnatractive' she is. It must be difficult hearing yourself described as 'frumpy', 'overweight', 'ugly' etc.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:46 AM

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf - PM
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

"One thing that disturbs me is that she must be reading/hearing all the articles and comments about how 'unnatractive' she is. It must be difficult hearing yourself described as 'frumpy', 'overweight', 'ugly' etc."

I hope not. I heard about her on the radio here in Germany and it said that she performed in clubs. She didn't seem very nervous and I don't think she would have done a bump-and-grind in front of all those people if she didn't feel comfortable on stage.

Call me cynical*, but I think the frumpiness was a set up. I think hurtful remarks are par for the course for people who put themselves in the public eye. I do hope she doesn't let them bother her.




* Just don't call me late for dinner.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:54 AM

If you'll google her and look at the interview I watched on CBS for their morning news magazine, you'll see someone who is less comfortable being interviewed and maintaining eye contact (with interviewer or camera) than she is comfortable singing on stage.

I think that bump and grind was aimed at the audience, not the judges, because I think she was already hearing the grumbling and gave them back something to consider. She's more than just her age, more than just her looks.

They're talking about her right now on Diane Rehm. :)

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM

Maggie, now that you mention Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand, when I was listening to Susan Boyle singing Cry Me A River, her voice and phrasing kept reminding me alternately of the two of them. She sounds sort of like the proverbial "love child of" Judy and Barbra - which wouldn't be bad parentage, even metphorically, for a singer. (Maybe her phrasing's a little more Ella, though, and that's another plus.)

She's wonderful.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

MMario, I would hope she spends more time reading her fansites than the negative spewing.

I am amazed that some are still saying she is fat. She was straight up and tall with no waist, but she is not fat other than a slight double chin. With a nicely tailored set of clothes, she could even look slender...pay attention to her legs and arms in the video; she is a fit person.

As for others who are successful and don't fit the mold...Queen Latifah comes to mind. Also, Bette Midler...I know she is not fat, but she has always looked very *full* to me...maybe it's her breast size?

Alice, thanks for the Cry Me A River link. I don't like the song from Les Mis, so this has become my fav. of Susan Boyle singing, which she does so well.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

I think the articles are disgusting in their unkind descriptions of Susan's looks. Regardless of the spin .... "this is the way the general public sees ugly and should we all be ashamed of how we judge". There was no need for such descriptives. They are designed to hurt not only Susan, but those who care for her and those who compare themselves with her.

What is the point of that kind of mean-spiritedness? It doesn't teach anything but that it is ok to say unkind things in print about how a person looks.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM

I'm not otherwise interested, nor in songs from "Les Mis"

No, neither was I, which was the reason why I told a tale about Cameron Mackintosh's accountant instead.
What I really cannot understand is why contributors to this forum are rabbitting on about an item of off-topic MOR schlock (thanks, Jack Campin) from a trashy TV reality show belted out by a karaoke singer.
Who cares?
I mean, Folkworks Feast of Fiddles is on this weekend . . .


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:34 PM

"Who cares?"\\Oh, 30-40 million people ..if reports are accurate... *grin*

She is a talented lady from a small town who has gotten little notice outside her own area...up to now. She is a matron...she looks the part....she is a delight, no matter what.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:44 PM

So, if I went on stage and had a que-ed up piece of folk on a CD played whilst I sang, would that mean I was just a "karaoke" singer worthy of snide remarks and put-downs? This seems like an opportune time for a bumper sticker idea I had the other day, based on the early American flag with a snake on it, saying "Don't tread on me" it would instead have some other symbology and the slogan "Don't trad on me!" NOT something for this crowd, usually, but in this instance it just might be!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:46 PM

Piers, I think you may be right about Susan going along with a partially staged episode on BGT. And I don't fault them, or her, for that.

Susan's looks are what they are, but normally one would expect that a woman "auditioning" in a world that values youth, beauty, and glamor would have her hair and makeup done professionally and wear the most flattering outfit she could muster for that audition. The fact that Susan came out on the BGT stage in a kind of frumpy-looking dress that looked washed-out on TV, with an almost nonexistent "style" to her hair, and looking like she hadn't paid any attention to makeup - that says to me one of two things: Either she and the show producers agreed that she should capitalize on the ugly-duckling-into-swan thing or she simply wanted to defiantly declare to the entertainment-seeking public, "This is who I am, warts and all.   Take it or leave it."   I suspect it was a little more of the former than the latter.

I don't know that much about how BGT (or America's Got Talent) works, but on the "Idol" shows that Cowell also does, all the contestants who get TV time at all have been seen and heard by the judges.   And in both shows (Got Talent and Idol), some contestants are put in front of the viewing public for comic relief (e.g., the "bad singers" portion of the aired Idol competition), and occasionally a contestant is put through to the semifinals (where the public gets to vote) despite "not looking like a pop star," because the show's producers think the contrast between image and voice makes for good entertainment.
(In American Idol's second season, the competition was basically between 6'1"/145 lb "geeky" Clay Aiken and 6'3" 350 lb "teddy bear" Ruben Studdard: both guys had big, gorgeous voices, but neither "looked like a pop star," and the show capitalized on the contrasts.)   
I get the feeling, from watching America's Got Talent, that the judges on that show have NOT actually heard and seen the contestants before they perform for the TV audience. But rest assured that there are plenty of people involved in producing the show who HAVE auditioned and chosen these people.   Someone who looked like Susan Boyle would never have made it onto the televised portion of the show unless she was either so BAD that her spot on the show would have been comic relief or so GOOD that people would be astonished that "THAT voice is coming from THAT body and face!"    The BGT judges naturally knew that Susan was going to be one or the other.   (No one with Susan's visual image and a so-so voice would have been selected to appear on the show.)   
Piers and the woman judge may have been expecting Susan to be yet another comic-relief act and were pleasantly surprised when she turned out to be the other option. I think Simon Cowell, with all his years dealing with Pop Idol and American Idol, probably really did "know" the minute she walked out on stage that he was about to hear something extraordinary.    Not because that was "staged," but because he knows how the TV show works.

Genie

PS,
Leo, you're so right. Susan Boyle isn't anywhere near the grotesque that some reviews are making her out to be. She's a rather average-looking 40-something woman in an entertainment world that more and more seems to expect, even demand, that women be a size 4 (with a DD bra size) 20-something with "chicklet teeth."    Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

Diane, you need to go do something else other than rain on this parade. This great voice is just "a karaoke singer" like Pavarotti was just some OK Italian tenor.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

she has a good voice.
if she was to attempt to sing traditional songs she would probably make a bad a job of it as Peter Pears did,to do justice to any style you have to absorb yourself in that style of music.
I wish her success,and may her cat Pebbles have the best caviar.,but I wont turn up to any of her gigs.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:53 PM

"Karaoke," strictly speaking, just means one is using a canned backup instrumental. On a show like BGT, unless they play an instruments, that's what all the singers do, I think. I don't think it's fair to call all vocalists "karaoke" if they don't accompany themselves on guitar or piano, etc.

The other, more pejorative use of "karaoke" implies that one is imitating the arrangement and styling of another singer's recording. Susan didn't really do that - especially on her recording of Cry Me A River.   I think she is a vocal stylist in her own right and doesn't deserve the snide "karaoke" epithet.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

I also had a problem with the big deal they (including the judges) were making of her looks. I thought they were very disrespectful in that regard. And one of those guys from backstage said, "I bet you didn't expect that did you? No, you didn't." Why not? Why wouldn't I expect her to sing like that? What reason would there be for me to make that assumption?

For those who were wondering how she learned to sing like that, I heard her say in an interview that she has been singing since she was 13, and she has received professional training.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: meself
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM

Isn't a "matron" a mother ?

Resident Pedant


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:05 PM

Correction - she's been singing since she was 12.

Here's Susan in 1999, singing Cry Me a River...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:14 PM

Sometimes I watch these discussions and wonder what the hell makes folks so bitter, or smug, ...... whatever, that they just can't be happy for someone. For whatever reason, no matter her previous accomplishment and/or training, this is a person with dreams deferred. She gets a moment, and she shines. Anyone so cynical as to not be able to see the true astonishment on the faces of judges and audience, and on the performer herself, is beyond help, IMO. Your lives must be very sad.

As to her appearance, I don't get all the attention to it. She just looks like an ordinary person to me. When I see the plastic injected, botox ridden, dyed hair men and women, I see people not comfy in their own skin. When I see someone like Susan, I see an ordinary person, comfy with who she is, and attractive in a way that one can only see if they are willing to see people for who they are, instead of who they are projecting themselves as. She has a glint in her eye, a sauciness in her demeanor, and a bounce in her step. It would be my guess that once one got past her shyness, he would find a very enjoyable person to spend time with. One can find physical beauty by spending a bit of money on a magazine, if in fact you find that attractive. But to find the beauty in the ordinary, one must invest of themselves, and that is an expensive proposition. I would guess that whomever did so with this Ms. Boyle would find a gem.

And what pipes........

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:22 PM

I think we can be happy for her while at the same time not appreciating what some of us may have seen as disrespectful behavior on the part of the people in the show. That certainly is the case for me. If someone thinks there is something out of line in that, maybe that person needs to examine his or her own prejudices with regard to peoples' looks.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:22 PM

I agree Mick,
but has anyone been bitter or smug?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:36 PM

Yes, Carol and Mick.

What bothers me most about the comments by Piers and what's-her-name and some of the reviewers is that they reinforce the concept that any woman who doesn't look young, very slim, and glamourous, with the face of a supermodel is "ugly."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM

And not only that, but it also reinforces the concept that anyone who doesn't fit the commercial standard of how people should look cannot also be an accomplished performer. The idea they are promoting is that if someone who looks as Susan does can actually do something, it just has to be a fluke.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:47 PM

Is a matron technically a mother? I duuno...even as a sometimes pedant, meself.

She is what we used to call 'matronly'.


I wonder what blind folks would think of her singing, not having read all the debate & hype.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

As I listen to The Now Show, a weekly topical / satirical exposé on the wireless, they're doing a sketch about just how few words are needed to start a smear (in particular over what high-ranking politicians or their relatives may or may not be up to), I am prompted to point out that I'm not "raining on anybody's parade".

I'd never before heard of this Scottish person who appeared on a TV programme which I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than watch, and will take great care never to let her penetrate my radar again. I'd break Olympic records running to escape renditions of the execrable dumbing down of Victor Hugo's work. What I fail to understand is why anyone else should be arsed to listen / watch this musical bilge (I actually lasted three bars . . . ) It's a hype, obviously. The sole question is . . . why? It's a million miles from falling into the remit of what this forum is supposed to be about.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

My first thought when she walked out on stage, concerning her looks, is that she looked like a character actor from a BBC production, NOT a bad thing in itself, at all, imo. Then, when she spoke, she even sounded like one and I'd pegged the accent, too. Still nothing negative, but when she sang, oh boy! It elevated my interest in her even more as she not only seems like an accomplished actress but sounds wonderful, too! I hope she finds employment doing that which she loves best and lets all negatives fall by the wayside.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:11 PM

How dare any of you uncouth, unwashed cretins enjoy anything that Diane Eastby hasn't given a stamp of approval!!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

Hey! Who does she think she is- Bobert???


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

Too highbrow for you Diane?
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

It's what i've been saying for some time. A musical career that's successful is determined by
how a performer . People see something odd or unusual in a performer and often
are dismissive. It's in the culture. There are those odd looking types that reflect a style of performance that's acceptable because they . (Leon Redbone comes to mind.) Often, not in Redbone's case, their appearances give an effect regardless of their musicality. The visual often gets a priority.

A similar situation occurred recently when a very small man (a midget by some standards)
possessed a marvelous baritone voice and has become well-known over the world at least in musician circles if not to the general public.

This principle even carries over into the traditional folk music world. As much as many folkies would like to be immune from this superficial visual evaluation of a performer,
they are often sucked in to like performers who fit a folk stereotype without evaluating
the musical output.

It's a lesson in suspending judgement until the talent is assessed.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:24 PM

I don't give a "stamp of approval" nor even a flying fuck about this heap of MOR schlock (as Mr Campin so accurately described it). I wouldn't waste my time or offend my ears. I heard barely three bars. I have no opinion but that it's wholly irrelevant.

The point is, I have absolutely no idea why it is even mentioned in a forum such as this when there is so much of far greater importance to be discussed. Like the upcoming Folkworks weekend.

And. uncouth, ratbag of a toadperson, if you can't be arsed to spell my name correctly, don't mention me at all.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:30 PM

Gee, Diane, I guess you think only what is important to YOU should be important to the rest of the world or other Mudcatters.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:34 PM

....and if you think her singing is off topic for this forum, just focus on the Cry Me A River performance (I posted the link twice in this thread) and realize Mudcat was started as a BLUES and Folk forum. Cry Me A River was written for Ella Fitzgerald for the movie "Pete Kelly's Blues".


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:38 PM

I would assume that "other Mudcatters" (should thay actually wish to classify themselves into an amorphous mass) would, universally, consider trad and roots music to be important and MOR, wishy-washy, OTT trash from musicals on a really, really stupid TV reality show to be very much less so.

Surely this is the case? Outta here anyway. Before you get onto the Lloyd sodding Webbers.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:38 PM

Interesting history on Cry Me A River, from Wikipedia:

"A jazzy blues ballad, "Cry Me a River" was originally written for Ella Fitzgerald to sing in the 1920s-set film, Pete Kelly's Blues (released 1955). But the record producer insisted Hamilton remove the word "plebeian" since "audiences wouldn't accept a black woman in the '20s using that word."[citation needed]. Hamilton tried but eventually refused to make the change, and the song was dropped. Fitzgerald first released a recording of the song on Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie! in 1961."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:56 PM

"I have no opinion but that it's wholly irrelevant."

We agree Dianne, your opinion on this is wholly irrelevant.

It is a shame that some people choose to look down their nose at the gifts of others because they walk through life with blinders on. We are all entitled to opinions of course, but opinions are usually based on sound reasoning. With statements like those posted above, we see the true colors and realize that critique and opinion pulled out of ones ass are separate skills.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:12 PM

Diane Easby is trolling, and has now successfully changed the subject of the thread from the wonderful discovery of the previously unknown but talented Susan Boyle over to herself.

Ms. Easby's attitudes toward popular culture don't allow for any cross-over from mainstream programming into her rarefied intellectual world.

Many of us don't normally watch this stuff. That doesn't mean if we admit to enjoying this segment, we're doomed to moribund stupidity. Back in college I spent summers working in the Forest Service, where some of the locals knew how to cut young whippersnappers down to size if we got too pompous perched on our textbook platforms. They dubbed us "pseudo-intellectuals." Point taken!

Capiche?

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:19 PM

From the article in The Daily Record, which posted the "Cry Me A River" track....

"Susan suffered a mild form of brain damage at birth and she admitted to Sawyer that she was bullied when she was younger. "They did a bit," she said, "but they always do that with someone who is quiet and I tended to be quiet at school.

"Well, they have turned around. They are nice to me now, so we will move on from there."

snip

And when Sawyer asked what she would say to her late parents if she could, she replied: "I would like to say thank you for supporting me over the years, thank you for looking after me and I hope I can make you proud."

Sawyer replied: "I certainly think you have done that. We cannot wait to see you over in the US."

link to the full article CLICK


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM

I once worked for 6 years for a guy who had no tolerance for any music except opera. He was an uncouth, racist lout whose idea of humor was to recite an old poem called "The shithouse poet" over and over. But he considered himself qualified to judge what music was fit for anyone to listen to. His son, a much heathier person, put on a weekday broadcast of the WFMT Midnight Special one day (in 1982). Tom Paxton's "Rambling Boy" came on. The father proclaimed, "That junk won't last two years." I didn't waste the breath to argue.

I am not implying any similarity to any person here, apart from his ability to determine what music is worth listening to.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:27 PM

Olesko Person:

We

You become royal?

Firstly, you too haven't the wit to spell my name.

Secondly, you have not had my opinon on this Scottish reality show contestant because I have not listened to the streaming and thus do not have one. I do not listen to wannabes warbling tired old shit from musicals.

Instead, I told a mildly scurrilous story against Cameron Mackintosh's accountant.

What I did do, additionally, is express shocked amazement that people who supposedly have an interest in trad and roots music are squandering their time over this non-event. There may be an implied criticism of your viewing habits, and you might be right.

But what interests me right now is said Folkworks event. You, on the other hand, are free to wallow in whatever dumbed down crap from the telly you like. Just don't impose it on anyone else, especially not me. It is a far from univerally-approved taste.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:29 PM

...and I would love to hear Ms. Boyle sing a traditional ballad. Perhaps it wouldn't work for her, but to judge by her rendition of "CMAR", I would be very optimistic.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:34 PM

That can't be Diane again...she is "Outta here anyway".

Her time is too valuable to waste on debates about tired old wannabes.

Oh, but spelling her NAME correctly...that is a subject for endless diatribes!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:42 PM

Diane .... If you want to discuss folkworks, go start a damned thread and talk about it. But take your royal ass out of this one and leave the rest of us simple bastards to our simple pleasures. Despite your prodigious knowledge, quite often you are just a friggin boor. Now is one of those times.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

Back to the topic....
My heart is warmed by Susan Boyle (like this thread title says) and I'm very happy she took the chance to give the audition a try.

Image and age related prejudice is an every day happening, and Susan Boyle has brought this to light worldwide in a very emotional way.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:47 PM

As a fake resistance worker used to say in a trashy sit-com. I will say this only once. Once MORE, that is.

I haven't seen / heard more than three bars of this person, Ms Boyce. As far as I am concerned she is not the issue. What is is the time and bandwidth being wasted on something which by no stretch of the imagination has anything to do with the range of genres supposedly under consideration in this place.

Not one of those contributing to this thread has the slightest inkling of who I am and what I do. Suffice for me to say that I have experience of a far wider range of music that many of you will have even heard of. However, in this forum I stick (mostly) to topic. The thread is turning into one about me because you are making it so. Bereft of the intellect to make a musical assessment, the pack mentality sets in. Again. You feel personally attacked just because I have no interest in areas which are irrelevant to the subject matter anyway. So you attack me. Personally and mindlessly. You don't get it, do you? I don't care if you choose to waste your time on inferior musics which have no relevance to trad and roots. But I think you should keep it out of here. Which is where I'm going, though obviously in a different direction. As I said earlier. Things to do and play . . .


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

SRS if right on this one folks. We give her all the attention, she keeps coming back for more. Please join me in NOT responding.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

Oh, dear! I come back after a good night's sleep and a nice breakfast and find that the hyenas are out. And The Gorgon's at the door!

Andy, Andy, Andy. . . .

"Unknown" Paul Potts was indeed unknown beyond his own community until he appeared on the talent show. And he did not sing in "semi-professional" productions, they were amateur productions. And as to his attending workshops with Luciano Pavarotti, I've attended classic guitar workshops with Pepe Romero. I learned a lot, but that, ipso facto, didn't make me any more "famous" than I already was.

By the way, Andy, how many people do you know who have made records, but who still languish in obscurity? I know a couple dozen, including a young woman who lives in an apartment upstairs. Ye gods, these days, anyone can crank out a CD. I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of CDs are residing in boxes under beds and in closets that nobody bought and that wind up getting inflicted on friends and relatives as gifts, 'cause that's the only way to get rid of the bloody things!

Hell, man, I've sung professionally (which is to say, people have paid to hear me sing) for most of my life, but that hardly makes me rich and famous. And there are vast armies of people out there who have done likewise who also are neither rich nor famous.

And none of this petty carping alters the fact that, well-known or obscure, both Paul Potts and Susan Boyle have extraordinarily fine singing voices, and were it not for the talent show, and Mudcatters feeling impelled to let others here know of extraordinary happenings, the vast majority of us would never hear of their existence. It would appear that there are some sorry souls who seem to thing that's a good thing. I, personally, am glad to hear about talented but otherwise obscure people being recognized at last.

Andy, m'lad, you might seriously consider the possibilities of getting a life. You too, Diane.

####

Re: Ethel Merman. Firth ducks and runs!

I believe I picked on Ethel Merman because Classic Arts Showcase keeps running a video of her when she was a guest on someone's television program late in her career (late 1970s or early 1980s) on which she did what might be considered her signature song, "There's No Business Like Show Business." She was belting as usual, and she was downright shrill, with a fierce vibrato. Why CAS has to keep running that video of her, I don't know, because it's hardly representative of her earlier work.

Anyway, my apologies to Ethel Merman and her fans. . . .

####

"Cry Me a River." Incredible!!

Listening to Susan Boyle sing "Cry Me a River," with that kind of feeling an intensity, I find the idea that, as she said, she lives alone with her cat, has never been married, and has never been kissed, a bit mind-boggling. She sounds like she really knows what she's singing about.

I saw the tenth anniversary concert version of "Les Miserable" televised some time back, and when I listen to Susan Boyle sing "I Dreamed a Dream," what her voice conjures up in my mind's eye is Fantine, the young woman who sings the song; a young woman who has led an absolutely miserable life and who continues to live in a world of hurt, but who, nevertheless, still has a dream. And Susan Boyle's voice is perfect.

By way of comparison, here is the song as sung on the concert version telecast:    CLICKY.   I don't recall the singer's name. But I would say that Susan Boyle's rendition is right up there. I would like to hear her sing it without the distractions of the kind of pressure she was under and without the (understandable) reaction of the audience obscuring the nuances of her performance.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:50 PM

Like I said...
Blues, singing, people sharing their amateur music talents. Gosh, seems like those topics are what I've experienced on Mudcat since at least 1998.

Alice


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:01 PM

The link above to the Diane Sawyer interview didn't work. Try this one instead.

Since my last post I find it interesting to learn that Diane Easby is so critical about something now she says she hasn't even seen. Just judged and found wanting. That kind of attitude is just plain stupid. Watch the video, then come back and argue it's merits - or not. Or don't come back. Since no one here wants to force you to do something you don't want to do, then save us the bother and please don't come back to this thread.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:02 PM

Diane,

What does MOR mean, as in "MOR mush"; "MOR schlock"; & "MOR, wishy-washy, OTT trash from musicals" ?

DC


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:03 PM

Oh pooh Diane! Nice attempt at a comeback.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: NormanD
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:07 PM

I thought that Bobby Troup wrote CMAR for his wife, Julie London, who sang it, in an eery and sexy way, in the greatest ever rock 'n' film, "The Girl Can't Help It" in 1956.

I really can't say - nor have I any right to even ponder - what moves people to tears. We all have different triggers. But maybe the sight of someone appearing to overcome the odds and sticking up two fingers (one finger, Trans-Atlantically) to the sneerers and critics is the stuff of dreams, something that maybe people want to see more of - especially in these uncertain and straitened times.

As I said above, good luck to the woman. She may well be far stronger than we ever will know or realise, and being casually patronised may be like water off a duck's back to her. I hope she gets what she wants. But I refuse to see this show as anything other than manufactured, complete with emotional triggers that draw us all in. Look at how we're all discussing it, and starting at each other's throats into the bargain. But get a grip, everybody! It's showbiz, entertainment, bread & circuses, nothing is left to chance....

And I welcome Diane Westby's sharp comments, waspish they may be, but ever welcome to read.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:09 PM

The quote of the Sawyer interview was in the article on The Daily Record, which broke the "Cry Me A River" recording.
I could only get the link to go to their main page, where you have to then click on another link to the article.

Thanks for the abcnews link, SRS.

Now that the discussion has moved farther from the original you tube link, here is the "Cry Me A River" link again that we have been discussing, for those who may have missed where it is buried in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ

The link to The Daily Record article is direct from the right side of the you tube page on this video of CMAR.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:22 PM

I quoted wikipedia as the source in my previous post. From internet movie database, bio of the composer of Cry Me A River, agrees with wikipedia that it is Arthur Hamilton, composed for the movie and then pulled because they didn't think Ella Fitzgerald, a black woman, would sing the word "plebian". There's a thread topic all in itself!

The Julie London hit came later.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:23 PM

Watch the video

No. Why the hell should I? The three bars or so I did see differed in no way from any other performance of this sort of tedious, over-melodramatic shit from the commercial musical theatre. However "good" the voice.

Why do they do it, and more importantly, why does anybody imagine it has the slightest relevance to what is supposed to be of importance to contributors here?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:28 PM

You know, music for some people, is strangely, about anger and bitterness.

For Susan Boyle, it is about nothing but Joy.

Joy in performing it. Joy in letting others share it with her. Joy in just being who she is.

She's endured the bullies, and forgiven them too. She has a sweet, kind and gentle nature and I'm sure that in a life that so many would choose to deride and ridicule, she has never stopped shining her light over people.

The lady is an absolute Beam of Sparkles and I had tears in my eyes when I listened to her sing.

I don't give a flying duck what anyone else thinks of her music, or of Susan herself, because for me, she is Absolute Magic!

Let those who choose to use their words to abuse and belittle do just that, I'm away to watch and listen to Susan again, to smile, and to feel joyful that her wonderful voice will now be heard by millions, and that her life has changed beyond her wildest dreams.

Somehow, I think she and Pebbles will continue to live their happy life, interspersed with moments of incredible excitement for her, and huge appreciation from all her new admirers around the world.

She could have chosen a life filled with bitter words and bitter views of others, having such an overlooked talent, instead, to use a phrase of Patch Adams, Susan Boyle chose to become 'An Instrument of Joy'

I wish her all the happiness in the world.

Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:36 PM

They are Getting ahead of themselves...I hope she keeps the original with maybe a few tiny changes. The ones they show make her look unreal.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:42 PM

"Why do they do it, and more importantly, why does anybody imagine it has the slightest relevance to what is supposed to be of importance to contributors here? "

I agree with you, this should be in the catagory of BS for a forum like this.

Regardless of Diane's reluctance to look beyond anthing but the focus of this forum (yet felt compelled to put her 2 cents in), the STORY has relevance to those of us who judge too harshly without gathering facts. It is a lesson.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:48 PM

I've watched a couple more of the interviews, including one that brought in Paul Potts, and it sounds like some of the news folks themselves are making and effort to contribute to her comfort level by letting Potts speak to her as one who was there not to long ago himself. Take the baby steps, enjoy the competition, use the nervousness to propel herself forward, and keep up the good work.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:06 PM

I am on this site to discuss music.
All music, not little sections of it.
By the reaction of the majority you like me enjoyed Susan's performance
the fact that it came from a stage show and is not Folk ,it does not matter at all. It is what I like about Folkies they enjoy or can appreciate all types of music. Sadly however a few have got to spoil a good discussion.Thank goodness they are in the minority
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:25 PM

I am on this site to discuss folk music,not classical music,not mor music.
however I wish Susan Boyle well,even if it is not my kind of music,it is good to see someone get reward for their voice/singing, regardless of image.
the problem with the the music industry today[and that includes folk music] is that it is about hype and promotion,it has become too much like the pop world.
Susan Boyle is someone who has proved that good singing,is more important than image.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:30 PM

I don't know who this Alan Day person is (OK, I vaguely know, he's one of these peculiar diatonic persons), but I'm pretty damn sure he hasn't a clue who I am.
Nor does he bother to read a word of what I say.
Of course, he doesn't have to. Nobody does.
Though if you don't, you relinquish totally the right to stick totally off-beam assumptions into my mouth.
Did you read what I was saying about ?The Now Show earlier?
No. thought not.
Go away (far away) and listen to Claude-Michel Schönberg or even A L Webber if you really, really want. I don't care, nor do I want to hear about it.
My musical tastes and experiences are wide but I don't talk about early baroque or various aspects of techno here.
This Ms Boyce person might be good at what she does if you like that sort of thing. Doubtless there is some appropriate scribbling board somewhere else to say so.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:31 PM

I am on this site to discuss folk music,not classical music,not mor music.

I'll ask again, what is "mor music"?

DC


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:35 PM

Sigh.

If you stand in the Middle Of The Road you might hear it. Then you'll be thankful when the juggernaut runs you over.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:36 PM

From what I can tell from having just Googled it, MOR appears to be an abbreviation for "middle of the road"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mor+music&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:36 PM

Crossposted.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:38 PM

Yeah. I was quite cross when I posted too.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:44 PM

Just who is Diane Easby?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:47 PM

My musical tastes and experiences are wide but I don't talk about early baroque or various aspects of techno here.
This Ms Boyce person might be good at what she does if you like that sort of thing. Doubtless there is some appropriate scribbling board somewhere else to say so.


Ms. Easby. Her name is BOYLE, not Boyce. So much for the importance of spelling a name correctly, eh? As long as YOURS is right, that's what is important.

Pay attention to THIS please:

You are a wet blanket here. A rotten potato. A fart in church. Bird poop on the windshield. WE DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOUR "SUPERIOR" MUSICAL SENSIBILITIES. You would be surprised at what the rest of us can come up with, in musical intellect, but you don't want to know. You've made a judgement, based upon, apparently, three bars of something you dismissed from the telly, and now you're busy bemoaning the deterioration of Mudcat.

Get a life. Get a personality. Get an enema. Get lost.

Sincerely,

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:49 PM

Don't sigh Diane. I thought that, as someone who claims to be a writer, you would have more respect the English language instead of resorting to net-speak.

Oh, and by the way, you took Ron Olesko to task for misspelling your name and yet you have twice referred to the subject of this thread as Ms Boyce.

DC


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:50 PM

who is anyone one here?
we are all people who are entitled to an opinion,who is Terry mcdonald,who is CaptainBirdseye,who is Alice,who is Carol C.
It does not matter.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:55 PM

Google me, Dick, and you'll find out, if you're astute enough. Google Diane Easby and you'll get nothing but Mudcat or Froots etc.

Oh, and it's McDonald not mcdonald.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:56 PM

Meanwhile.... back on the topic....

Susan Boyle's home town paper, the West Lothian Courier, reported this:


"Susan said this week that she had always dreamed of becoming a professional singer and had enrolled on a drama course in Edinburgh several years ago.

But her ambition was cut short after the death of her dad Patrick when she had to stay at home and look after her mum Bridget, who sadly died two years ago.

But regulars at Blackburn pub the Ospray told the Courier that Susan had always been destined for great things.

Owner Tony Moran (pictured) said: "Everybody knows Susan and knows she has always enjoyed singing."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:03 PM

unfortunately, the Courier misspelled "Osprey", but what the heck about spelling today.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:07 PM

By the way, Alice is my real name, and if you google my name, it is the first page that comes up. www.aliceflynn.com


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:27 PM

I don't really think we need trolls or troll groupies in this thread, eh?

Alice, somebody in another thread referred to you as 'Alice in Momtana'--funny typo, considering it was in reference to a lullaby.

I'm not 100% sure this is correct: I heard a fleeting ad for Larry King Live tonight, and I believe Ms Boyle is supposed to be on it.

I don't really believe the show was 'staged', so to speak. I think the people filming it were pretty sure what was going to happen and knew to get shots of the audience before and during, and I believe they edited it to emphasize those reactions. Now, ask me if I care. I love seeing the closed minded, smug snobs get their comeuppance. I've managed to do things like that on a very minuscule scale, and it feels damned good.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:33 PM

I don't know who this Alan Day person is (OK, I vaguely know, he's one of these peculiar diatonic persons), but I'm pretty damn sure he hasn't a clue who I am.
Nor does he bother to read a word of what I say online.
Of course, he doesn't have to. Nobody does.
Though if you don't, you relinquish totally the right to stick totally off-beam assumptions into my mouth.
Did he read what I was saying about ?The Now Show earlier?
No. thought not.
Go away (far away) and listen to Claude-Michel Schönberg or even L Bart & A L Webber if you really, really want. I don't care, nor do I want to hear about it.

My musical tastes and experiences are wide but I don't talk about early baroque or various aspects of techno here.
This Ms Boyce (Boyle? whatever) person might be good at what she does if you like that sort of thing. Doubtless there is some appropriate scribbling board somewhere else to say so.

I posted in reply to someone who said they had crossposted to say that I too was cross when I posted.
No idea where that's gone.
I'm actually just bored and can't be arsed to be cross at all this shit about a reality TV show that hasn't the vaguest relevance to what we're supposed to be here for.

Someone says they can't find much of my work online. No, of course you wouldn't. It was mostly done with real hot metal on paper, Remember that? I suppose the Colindale cuttings library would be the place to start.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:36 PM

It's a lovely name Alice.
I just wonder what the reaction would have been if she had sung ,or does sing a Folk Song. My suspicion would be that the same complaints would come from the same directions. I look forward to the next time she sings,I hope at some point Susan sings "Cry me a River" to bring her singing up to date.Good luck to her and I do hope she can cope with this surge of interest.
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:41 PM

I don't know who this Alan Day person is (OK, I vaguely know, he's one of these peculiar diatonic persons), but I'm pretty damn sure he hasn't a clue who I am.
Nor does he bother to read a word of what I say.
Of course, he doesn't have to. Nobody does.
Though if you don't, you relinquish totally the right to stick totally off-beam assumptions into my mouth.
Did you read what I was saying about ?The Now Show earlier?
No. thought not.

Go away (far away) and listen to Claude-Michel Schönberg who screwed up Victor Hugo's text, (or even L Bart or A L Webber if you really, really want). I don't care, nor do I want to hear about it.
My musical tastes and experiences are wide but I don't talk about early baroque or various aspects of techno here.
This Ms Boyce (Boyle? whatever) person might be good at what she does if you like that sort of thing. Doubtless there is some appropriate scribbling board somewhere else to say so.

I posted in reply to someone who said they had crossposted that I too was cross when I posted.
No idea where that's gone.
I'm actually just bored at all this shit about a reality TV show that hasn't the vaguest relevance to what we're supposed to be here for.

Someone says they can't find much of my work online. No, of course you wouldn't. It was mostly done with real hot metal on paper, Remember that?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:47 PM

"I do hope she can cope with this surge of interest."

From what I've seen I feel she will be able to cope with this surge of interest unlike some of the posters to this thread.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:56 PM

I know who you are Diane we have discussed topics before.I am also certain I will enjoy your music when I hear it.I will also listen to it right through, not a few bars. I agree with you over the concept of this programme, the two presenters itching to take the piss out of everyone before they even perform. It does however throw up the good act and it helps to find those talented performers, like Susan Boyle,the dance act that was brilliant and many other previously unknown artists.
The major problem is there is little or no outlet for finding this talent apart from this type of programme. When it does throw up a brilliant performer you do at least have to give them a few minutes to see what the fuss is about. I would do the same for you Diane and be the first to write on here if I enjoyed it.
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:03 PM

I first read Victor Hugo's Les Miserables in high school. Not in a Lit class, but in French class. We read the book first in English, then gave it a try in the original French.   I have since read it twice more (in English) for the sheer enjoyment of the story and of the writing. I have also seen two movie versions:   the 1935 version with Fredrick March as Jean Valjean and Charles Laughton as Inspector Javert (watched it in French class) and the 1998 version starring Liam Neeson (telecast). I found the 1980 musical, written by Robert Hossein, composed by Claude-Michel Schönberg, with libretto by Alain Boublil an excellent musical adaptation, and apparently others share my estimate because "Les Miz" has become one of the most popular musicals of all time.

One reveals a great deal about oneself by sticking music into various categories, then harshly judging certain categories as "middle of the road" or "music of the great unwashed," hence, totally unworthy of notice by anyone with any musical knowledge or taste—especially when one claims an interest in and knowledge of folk/traditional music, or "music of the people." Truly fascinating. Like a snake starting to eat its own tail. And then, when that person declares proudly that they listened to only three measures of a piece of music and cut it off in order to keep from polluting their minds with "that kind of schlock," methinks one then has a pretty good indication of their depth of analysis, and therefore, the value of their opinion on just about anything they care to pontificate on in the future.

A person with truly superior musical sensibilities is generally very inclusive, finding something worth listening to in almost all forms of musical expression. The person who claims "superior musical sensitivity" and then trashes just everything they hear except their own musical specialty establishes beyond all doubt that they lack any musical sensibility whatsoever.

It saves time knowing which posts one can safely skip reading.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM

If this Patti LuPone and Susan Boyle conversation has already been posted, forgive me. I've lost track of all the links we've posted to this thread.

This is a video of an interview with Susan Boyle and Patti LuPone from CBS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8zLedNt98


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:42 PM

In case it hasn't been explained adequately, "MOR" means "middle of the road," which is a nice name for elevator music.

I know the posts from Diane Easby are grouchy, but I think they're legitimate. After all, Susan Boyle has generated all this enthusiasm for her performance on one song. I have to admit I like it, but I hate myself for falling for all the sentimental enthusiasm connected with the Susan Boyle performance. I think Diane has something legitimate to say, even if she can't get away from her usual nasty tone.

As for Susan Boyle, I will reserve judgment until I hear her sing a second song. I thought that by this time, there'd be a YouTube video of her singing something other than that one song from "Les Mis."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:45 PM

Joe,
There is... we've been discussing it.
Cry Me a River.
Posted links several times in this thread.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:51 PM

I posted it once, also.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:18 PM

Alice and Maggie...........

Thank you


Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:45 PM

Thanks to Bobad for posting the link. I've been hearing about Susan Boyle's performance all week, and was curious to see it.

My son, who some of you have met, was on the American version of the show last year – part of a non-musical act. Some of the acts, like my son's, were invited to participate rather than coming in off the street. The acts went through a couple screening rounds before performing for the celebrity judges, so the producers knew exactly what they were before anything was recorded. I'd be surprised if the judges were told anything about the acts because part of the fun is seeing their reactions. Anyway, when the celeb judges finally showed up hours and hours of performance were recorded. All the participants signed non-disclosure agreement, were sworn to secrecy, and went home. Weeks went by while the hours and hours of recorded material was edited into storylines lasting a few minutes each. Then everyone jumped on a plane and went to Las Vegas for the finals. After a couple days of pointless milling around the producers sent a bunch of the acts home, including my son's. Apparently there were more acts put through to the finals than were actually needed to fill out the shows. The prizes on the Yank version were $1,000,000 cash and a chance to perform in a Las Vegas show.

I don't really know, but if the Brit version was produced like the Yank version then Ms Boyles' performance was recorded weeks ago.
- Phil


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:47 PM

She's on Larry King on CNN now.
Apparantly, the filming was of her audition, and Piers explained that after a full day of bad singers, there was Susan.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:54 PM

It is amazing how jaded some of us seem to be. Susan has a really good voice and genuine sensitivity to the lyrics, both on this and "Cry Me A River". Even the audience and the judges, who've been harshly criticized by some of us, should be cut some slack. They all realized almost immediately that they were wrong to judge a book by the cover. She won them over almost immediately--and maybe they will remember this for the future. Even Simon's smile seemed genuine.

And I say this as one who agrees with Diane completely--(much as it pains me to agree with her on anything--I'm sure it pains her too)--- on "Les Miz", and on Webber's creations as well. For me "Les Miz" is an overripe travesty of the book, with only one worthwhile song, "Master of the House". The musical manages to be both overblown and dumbed-down.   Obviously everybody has his or her own taste. I like rock a lot and I like some operas. But the combination is a pretentious mishmash. And I have seen the show--not by choice.

I would sentence everyone who has seen the show to read the book -- (I'm surprised that Don, who has read the book, also liked the "musical")--and some would find out what they are missing.   Hugo creates a whole world which envelops the reader. I found the show tedious and unconvincing, and the rock element was jarring.

But this is totally immaterial to Susan's BGT performance. Her song really spoke to her--and she made it speak to the audience, and us, as well. She really did have a dream--and who knows, perhaps her musical dream may be realized. At least she's already proven uncounted numbers of skeptics wrong.

And I also agree with Mooh-- and maybe now even church choir singers will get a bit more respect. He's totally right that choral singing teaches you a huge amount that helps you in any singing.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:01 PM

Joe, you must have been skipping through the thread. Listen to that "Cry Me A River" then tell us she's a flash in the pan. I know you didn't say that, but I think you'll realize this isn't just sentimentalism. It's a well-told fairy story.

Alice, thanks again for the link. I tried to find that conversation at CBS earlier and I couldn't tease it out of the web site.

Spaw and Joe, there have been discussions here on Mudcat that I have been part of that, if she joined in, I no doubt appreciated and discussed in depth things with Diane. I love some of the pointed and technically engaged conversations--I remember one where we started talking about Robin Hood and got into the lore of oak trees and all sorts of cultural markers associated with both. We were wading into academic material in depth. I don't know if she was there, but I think she'd shine on that. I resented the silly stuff that people injected because they knew how to use Google but didn't have a clue as to how to evaluate the information they found. We stumbled over those entries and either dismissed them or ignored them. I understand perfectly well the position of scholarly prowess when the occasion arises.

There is a lot of cultural literacy that can come into this discussion of this performance by Susan Boyle. I've seen some pretty silly remarks on the YouTube threads--lots of people want to say something, just because they're so happy to see this little drama unfold. It's like a wonderful short story, in which we reach a denouement in under 7 minutes. The Culture understands 1) television programs 2) Simon Cowell and 3) the underdog. There will be more out of this, but right now, a lot of people can appreciate this performance on a lot of levels.

How about wrapping this up with a little theory: Jean-François Lyotard wrote a great essay called The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge. In it, one important point he makes is about how all cultures "privilege" storytellers. Part of the problem in this thread is that the "storyteller" is not one individual, the storyteller is the television program with all of it's flaws. I think that DESPITE the "flaws" of the corporate storyteller, Susan Boyle managed to take control of the story and it had a happy ending.

Climbs down off of the stack of philosophy texts . . .

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:09 PM

Joe, you said, 'I have to admit I like it, but I hate myself for falling for all the sentimental enthusiasm connected with the Susan Boyle performance.'

For one thing, it doesn't hurt anyone to feel happy at someone else's talent and good fortune. I don't know what sort of dismal society we must be part of when you can doubt your own good feelings. Joe, you shouldn't actually aspire to cynicism. If you really HATE yourself because this touches your heart, maybe you should figure out why. I'd think anybody who tried to make me feel bad about feeling good must be pretty pathetic.

She said it didn't make her feel bad that people had been laughing at her. She'd come to sing, and she just got on with it.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:16 PM

CNN story about Susan. Take a look here, there are several photos--you'll see that she is actually quite a normal weight.

I think the podcast of the Larry King show can be downloaded, but so far my browsers are blocking it. I'll work it out, but it says the podcast is free via ITUNES.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:28 PM

There is a clip of the Larry King interview on you tube.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM

For at least 2/3 of my lifetime, Julie London's recording of "Cry Me a River" has been one of my favorites. Others have recorded it, but none could match Julie London. I admit Susan Boyle comes pretty darn close. I really like her recordings of both songs.

But there's something about this "overnight sensation" aspect of the whole thing that bothers me. When I see so many people go bonkers over a performer who has performed (now two) songs publicly, a little warning light goes on in my head*. If she has been interviewed so many times since the talent show, why hasn't she sung for some of the interviews?

Overall, I still prefer Julie London.

-Joe-


*(some may refer to it as an "idiot light")


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:48 PM

She has sung, Joe, for several of the interviews. A capella, the song she sang last Saturday.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:56 PM

This thread first alerted me to this video. Prejudice at firest stopped me looking at anything to do do with the 'Gots Talent' programme and their talentless panel of judgemental self seekers. However, I did succumb, and am thoroughly glad that I did. People described it as 'heart warming', and it was. And if that is sentimentalism, then I'm glad I still retain a bit of it. Some of what I've read above actually makes me nauseous. If that kind of dismissive, elitist, partial nastiness is typical of music lovers, folk or other, I'd cancel my subscription to any lists involving them now. LOOK, she sang for the joy of it, she did it well, beyond our mere critics' capabilities. Too bad she didnm't sing a Child ballad, but she sang wonderfully. If anyone doesn't see why that isn't 'folk', and wants to call it something else, that really is their problem based on ignorance, prejudice, and probaly an attack of piles. See many other threads on 'WHAT IS' type questions.
(continued on page 94)


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:04 PM

Well dang....what a shame. Two songs and she's tapped out. No way she could possibly sing anything else............damn.......I'm really sorry to learn that......................

And here I was makin' a list of all the songs I'd love to hear her do. But I guess its over for her after coming in second to Julie London........****sigh****.................Wonder if she'd be any good on some Ethel Waters/Bessie Smith, torchy kind of stuff........nah..............maybe some jazz standards like "When Sunny Gets Blue"...............no.....no.........

She's just to MOR I guess.............................geeziz......gimmee peace........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:34 PM

Oh, Spaw, it isn't that bad. Maybe she'll do very well in the rest of the competition - but she'll never be another Julie London. And what about Diana Krall? She'll never be another Diana Krall, either. Are you going to desert Julie and Diana and run off after this upstart Susan Boyle? I dunno, Spaw. I just don't know.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:42 PM

I've reserved a spot for you Joe at the newly reopened and improved NYCFTTS!! Rest quietly now....The Insanevac Chopper is on its way and you'll soon be in the hands of the lovely Nurse Sins Ratched. I've ordered more Nose Flutes and a supply of Fleet Enemas.

Spaw---Developer and CEO of the NYCFTTS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:45 PM

Hey..... save a few of those trinkets for me. I am sitting here on my hands waiting for my 17 year Ciara to come home from her first prom. Given the events of July 5 past, I am OK with that. Move over ..... wait ..... what the hell do you think you are going to do with that tube ...........

Mick


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:19 AM

Ron, Hugo's Les Miserables is a monumental book, and not only were the movie versions, of necessity, "Reader's Digest Condensed" versions, I knew full well before seeing the musical that it would also be a condensation, so I had no illusions. Also, since high school, I've had classmates and, later, friends who were (are) involved in musical theater—including my neighbor immediately upstairs (not the woman who writes her own "folk songs," she lives on the top floor). So there, too, musically I knew pretty much what to expect.

Within the parameters of the possible, I think the musical was well done. Certain aspects could have been done better, but all-in-all, well done. Some parts were even better than I expected.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:57 AM

Diane, you are certainly entitled to choose not to waste your time on a TV show contestant singing music from a musical or a song from the pop/blues/jazz world, and far be it from me to put you down for expressing that opinion.   But may I suggest that if this subject is one you feel is a waste of time, you really don't need to spend any more time weighing in on it?

Just as the person/people who think Alice's "caption" threads are a waste of time doesn't need to open them, I'd say there are many other threads here at Mudcat that are on topics you'd probably feel are more worth your time. : )

Genie


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:20 AM

BTW, I know full well what "MOR" means. But since when are songs from musical theatre or the pop or rock or jazz world, by definition, more "middle-of-the-road" than "traditional" or "folk" music?

FWIW, I hear the Gershwins' (and DuBose Heyward's) song "Summertime" done all the time in both folk and jazz music gatherings. That song is from a friggin' OPERA, fer cryin' out loud.

Damned pigeonholes!

Genie


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM

Yes, Alice, I got the impression that a primary reason why Susan has never had a love life has to do more with her having had major responsibility for taking care of her ailing mum than anything to do with either her looks or personality. Sometimes the demands of real life can be so consuming that one doesn't have the luxury of pursuing a "personal life."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:44 AM

Judge Piers Morgan was on Larry King with Susan Boyle tonight, and he apologized to her for the way he acted when she first came on stage before the judges.

"I sort of feel like apologizing to Susan," he said. "I'm sorry, because we did not give you anything like the respect we should have done when you first came out."

He said the judges had been through a long day with "lots of terrible auditions."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:05 AM

In the first place, I didn't invent the term "schlock". I was merely quoting one of several other contributors to this thread who were as astonished as I was that a karaoke singer from a downmarket TV talent show was being discussed at all on here. The expression was so apt I nicked it.

Somebody or other asked whether I'd criticise this Caledonian warbler if she'd sung a "f*lk" song. Jock O' Hazeldean was mentioned at some stage. How far from the point can you get? She wouldn't be doing material which falls within the remit of this forum on dumbed down telly in the first place. Her voice might be OK; I haven't heard more than a snatch of it because I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than listen to tired and tainted material from Claude-Michel Schönberg or even A L Webber (to name but two inferior composers) in the first place.

I chose instead to comment somewhat scurrilously on the activities of Cameron Mackintosh's accountant as they are marginally more interesting than the travesty of Victor Hugo's work produced by the paymaster. I don't have a "musical specialty" nor indeed am I especially good at anything at all. I'm "quite good" at lots of things and anyone who was vaguely interested could find examples of my work in appropriate repositories.

Looking down the list of posters, there's not a single one known to me personally. They can't even get my name right and I'm unlikely to bump into any of them by chance if they spend their time hanging out at West End / Broadway mainstream theatres watching populist, MOR tripe. They can if they really, really want to but they ought not to inflict it forcibly on the rest of the population. This is, apparently, what they mean by "inclusive" and I'm certainly not that. I might have remarked before: If elitism = excellence, long live elitism. (Again, not mine but from a member of Hammersmith Morris).

I don't wish this wannabe either well nor ill. I don't care. It doesn't interest me. Do I stick music into various categories? Ah yes, guilty, but only two. Good and bad. And what you get on this sort of TV freak show is by definition the latter. IAFWAFIAWM(orW)WQ. Life's too short, etc etc . . .


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Steamboater
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:53 AM

When I saw Boyle, even before she began to sing, I immediately thought of Bette Davis as Charlotte Vale, pre her Claude Raines make-over from "Now Voyager". . Next? Boyle in a stage musical adaption of "Now Voyager". She's perfect!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:01 AM

Strange how this thread has become about one poster. It always does, when she doesn't like a particular thread. That way, it usually ends up getting closed down, and voila, she's achieved her goal.

Life's too short for pedantry, acutally. It truly makes no difference to the way the world turns if people on Mudcat are discussing Susan Boyle. She deserves to be discussed, she has an incredible voice.

What the fook her private life has to do with anything though enrages me utterly. Tell the nosey bastards to bugger off. I expect she prefers life with Pebbles to any other life. Everyone is different. The lady oozed happiness to me.

I think one poster in here could learn a great deal from Susan's sweet nature.

Joe, promise me you won't turn into a Grumpy Ol' B*gger! :0)


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:52 AM

Good singer. Bloody awful song. That is the sum total of my thoughts on this obviously engrossing subject.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: caitlin rua
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:11 AM

Normally-cynical muso columnist Bob Lefsetz has this to say:

Susan Boyle went on to become the biggest superstar in music today. It's no longer a top-down world. If you want to succeed, you have to realize you're in PARTNERSHIP with your audience/consumers. These same teeming masses decide who is a star, not radio or other traditional gatekeepers. How long would it take for radio to go on Susan Boyle? You'd need SET-UP. The record would have to be tested. But none of this interference is run on the Web. You can get an instant spike on YouTube. Sure, Susan Boyle sprang from the platform of "Britain's Got Talent", but they don't air that show in the U.S. and my inbox was burning up moments after she appeared on the show. That's how fast you can make a star today.

Will she last? She's an outsider, a virgin who's never been kissed. She was dissed by her schoolmates. She's not a Barbie. The same people suing the Pirate Bay are the ones who are foisting unreasonable "stars" on the public, less and less successfully. The public knows it's cookie-cutter, that you've got to be beautiful and have true desire. Talent? The handlers will take care of that.

The public saw something in Susan Boyle. Somebody who's not playing by the rules, who believes in herself. For all the bullshit about the end of civilization, the death of record companies and newspapers, those of us not employed by these entities, sans the blinders, view this as the most exciting period of our lives. Suddenly, the Davids have power. Our lone voice now means something. Truth holds sway in a way it has not previously. It's no longer who you know, but how good you are.

We're not building stars, we're building careers. Stop laying your album-length opuses on people who don't care. Give us more Susan Boyles, who don't have a fake bone in their body, who own their identity, who follow their path so independently, that we follow them.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:16 AM

Actually, I have now had another thought. Where were you all for the last twenty years of Susan Boyle's life? And where are you now, for the Susan Boyles of our own communities? She's a local pub singer. Do we all support our own local pub singers? I hope so.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:18 AM

Actually Greg that would make a good subject for a thread - Pub singers that you rate - Far better than the recent best singer that you know, where loads of posters named singers that might be known to them, i.e. they've listened to but that none of them actually "know".

As to the MOR crap being spouted here by some - I would have thought it self evident that if you enter a "Talent" contest where you will be required to perform through progressive rounds for that first song you have to pick what material you perform for the "Judges" who decide whether or not you carry on with great care. Ideally the song should be known so that the audience can react to you if you sing the song well (as was the case with Susan Boyle), that first song must also demonstrate your range to show the "Judges" what you are capable of and what the power of your voice is, lastly if at all possible the song should have a degree of difficulty that the "Judges" can acknowledge ("Big Song" was mentioned by one of the "Judges" on the show when it was announced).

On Diane's criteria on what makes a song or music worthwhile listening to, I'd condemn about 95% of the navel gazing contributions of modern "singer-songwriters" to the trash-can as meaningless tripe, best dscribed as being full of 15 year-old angst poured out and written in a bedroom where it should have remained unnoticed. I like songs that tell stories which is the reason I like "traditional" Folk, possibly because the passage of time has sorted the wheat from the chaff.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:33 AM

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie - PM
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:46 PM

"Piers, I think you may be right about Susan going along with a partially staged episode on BGT. And I don't fault them, or her, for that."

No, I don't fault them, either. That's show biz. It's not a show I would watch. I don't know about the versions in other countries, but the German one ("Deutschland sucht das Superstar" == "Germany Seeks the Superstar") is based on the "Gong Show" premise and it involves the judges insulting the "bad" performers. I whole idea of it makes my skin crawl.

"PS,
Leo, you're so right. Susan Boyle isn't anywhere near the grotesque that some reviews are making her out to be. She's a rather average-looking 40-something woman in an entertainment world [...]"

I agree. Besides, who cares what a singer looks like? Not everyone can be gorgeous like me. (I don't like to boast, but I've been told I have the perfect face for radio.)

"Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman."

Oh, I thought Bea Arthur was a very attractive and impressive-looking woman.

I also like the way Peter Pears sang Benjamin Britten's folksong settings and I love Kathleen Ferrier's recordings of folksongs. There's not just one right way to sing folksongs. And I like Ethel Merman, though not so much when she's belting out songs. She didn't only sing like that.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 07:56 AM

back to Susan Boyle, who I still wish did folk music. Maybe she does.

No. The Linlithgow Folk Club has had regular singarounds going for about 20 years, a few miles away from where Boyle lives. (I've been to quite a few of them, despite coming from much further away). There are many other singers' events in West Lothian she could also have gone to - Tattie Bogle could give a better list than me, she helps organize some of them. These range from solidly traditional to completely singer-songwriter.

Boyle obviously doesn't give a flying fuck about folk music however you slice it. She's going to spend the rest of her career, however long or short it may be, doing the same sort of garbage as she did on TV.

I'd rather listen to almost any of the Linlithgow FC regulars.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:09 AM

I have never been a fan of musicals. Like Teribus, I prefer songs that tell a story. That being said, I was enthralled by Susan Boyle's voice. I would like to hear her sing "Song for Ireland" but that's just me.
This site is dedicated to folk and blues but nowhere is it written that it is restricted to those narrow parameters. In my not so humble opinion, talent transcends such limits.
Diane, ease up and while you are at it, define folk music.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:21 AM

yes ,I remember LinlithThgow Folk club,Nora Devine used to organise it,.
I played the club three or four times.really friendly atmosphere,and good singers.is Nora still around?she used to run a wool shop, I think,and the pub was the Black Bitch,
I never saw Susan Boyle there.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:23 AM

Kendall I totally agree a wonderful song.
I second that
Al


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:16 AM

a song for Ireland was written by Phil Colclough,I am not sure I would like to hear Susan Boyle sing it.
She should sing that which she enjoys,which seems to be what we have heard so far,it is as silly as asking a singer of folk songs,to sing opera,or jazz,or Barry Manilow.
having heard Peter Pears[a good classical singer]murder the Water is Wide,I am not sure Susan Boyle would make a good a job of Song for Ireland
Sean Cannon does a supreerb version,but Sean Cannon,is someone who is immersed in the Irish tradition,anmd who clearly relates to the song.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:25 AM

Ahem! The NYCFTTS has been alerted to the ongoing situation here and is on full emergency standby.

Please govern yourselves accordingly.

This has been a public service announcement.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:28 AM

There is a recurring theme to the effect that "this song/performance" should not be discussed on Mudcat because the song comes from a stage production. Do folks realize how many songs in contemporary repertoires come from theater? How many folk singers are singing songs that Ewan MacColl, or Brendan Behan, composed for Stage productions 50 years ago? Almost anyone who does music of the sea sings Jolly Roving Tar, which was written for a stage production 120 years ago. Harrigan and Hart are considered by some to be the originators of the American Musical Theater, and I can think of a few of their songs that are part of the performance repertoire of some pretty successful "Folk singers".

Regardless of the origins of the song she chose, this average looking person, walked on to a stage with a few thousand people in the house. She maintained her dignity whilst being very rudely treated by this audience, and then started to sing. Now I realize a certain percentage of us readers of Mudcat actually have performing experience, but to maintain ones composure with an audience response like that is not an easy thing to do. She never wavered once. She planted her feet firmly on the stage, said this is what I do, and did it. There are a lot of people with opinions here that will never do that in a million years. Who gives a Fuck what song she sang, she's got balls, and did a great job. I applaud the performance.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:31 AM

Dick Gaughan commented during a performance that he'd decided there was no such thing as bad music - just music he either liked or disliked. Good sentiment to hold I reckon.
Folkies can sometimes be so critical of each other's music. Kind of odd when we could just be celebrating each other's pleasure in the creation of music.
Great to see an ordinary person doing an extra ordinary performance. Whether you liked the song or not, it's grand to take pleasure in her success. It's a big jump from a pub or church venues to the big audience, studio, lights etc. What guts. She not only dreamed a dream, she did it.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:53 AM

I also performed at the Black Bitch back in August 1990. It would have been easy to have not seen Susan Boyle there.
It was a wonderful audience and they treated me like family.Typical of Scotland.
I ended with Flower of Scotland because I knew they would all sing along, and I was feeling really down at the passing of the man who wrote it. The wasn't a dry eye in the house. Not one.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:03 AM

"If elitism = excellence, long live elitism"

The sad thing is, there are actually some people that believe that failed premise. There are also people who get hung up on trivial minutae such as spelling (long live Slip Mahoney!) or perceived rules for forums and end up completely missing the point.

The story isn't about whether one likes showtunes, television, or the potential oxymoron of "Britain's Got Talent".   Most rational people understand that the takeaway from the video is the valuable lesson about prejudging people. I'm just as guilty


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:06 AM

Those who can do - those who can't criticise.

I get great pleasure listening to anyone with what I consider to be a beautiful voice. It really doesn't matter what they are singing, but when you listen to an almost perfect rendition of what is obviously a difficult song to sing, that speaks to something, I think, in the heart of any true singer. Folk music is my main love but I will admit to liking musicals, classical and pop music. That gives me such a wide range of sound that can make me happy to sing along.

At the FSGW Getaway we have had doowop sessions that I am sure the purists would want to have run out of camp on a rail, but they were FUN. To me, music should be about enjoyment, singing for the sheer joy of the moment and Susan Boyle showed that with every fibre of her being. I'm glad that, at last, she is getting her place in the sun. It's about time.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:19 AM

Those who can do - those who can't criticise.
not true.a cliche,and a generalisation.
for the record,I have not criticised her.I too am pleased for her,furthermore I think she will perform best those songs she enjoys,which is why it is silly for people to say I would like to hear her singing folk music or this or that song.
every performer if they are to perform well,will choose that which they like.
nobody expected ElvisPresley to sing Lord Randall
I am really pleased that merit has won out over image.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:20 AM

News flash! Twelve hours ago, my husband returned home from a trip to Arizona. He reports that Susan Boyle's performance was on TV at the hotel, in the airport in Tucson and in the airport in Las Vegas.

Amazing, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:28 AM

I'll skip past some of the more analytical posts and add a remark on her musical skills--I was searching for the Larry King stuff last night and see that CNN has also posted the audio of her "Cry Me A River."

She may not be Julie London, Joe, but her voice in places reminded me of Shirley Bassey.

"MOR" or popular culture--the elephant in the room on a folk site? A lot of people make a darned good living in that cultural venue. Some of them stray into specialty recordings when they get a chance.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:33 AM

Surely, the crucial thing is she didn't succeed in spite of her image. She was put on the TV precisely because of her image.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:02 AM

Greg - does the reason matter as much as the lesson?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: NormanD
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:04 AM

"Surely, the crucial thing is she didn't succeed in spite of her image. She was put on the TV precisely because of her image."

Yes, fully agree, Greg. The logistics of this prog, and others like it, are to ensure a good revenue flow through viewers and further advertising / sponsorship / franchising. Any way of generating interest is money in the till. Every show like this will have an outsider who does well, in spite of....

Susan Boyle has made it to the front page of today's Daily Mirror. She is obviously good copy. In the final outcome, however it's judged (by the panel, or viewers' telephone votes, I don't know the details of this) she will have won, whether she formally comes first or not.

That's entertainment.

I think I'd like to re-visit this thread in, say, six months time and ask how many of us here have gone out & bought her first released piece of music? Or gone to see her live?

There's a lot of gushing now, but a few months down the line I bet tastes will be different.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:06 AM

I think that she would have been chosen to take part even if she had measured up to what is considered to be 'attractive' by the media. Not to have allowed that voice to be heard, when the opportunity was there, would IMHO, have been criminal.

Who knows, maybe this will encourage others with exceptional voices to try another time. Maybe, if enough 'ordinary' people found their voices in this way the public perception of what is 'acceptable' might be dented.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:26 AM

she suceeded because of her voice,despite her ordinary image.
she has not been manufactured,unlike some of the stars of the folk and pop scene ,
Iagree with Jacui c,this is a great victory,for everyone that believes in home made music,and everyone who follows the philosophy of William Morris,that all ordinary people have the abilty to do something creative.
it is the difference between the highest common factor or the lowest common denominator,it may not be my kind of music,but it proves there are many people out there with talents that are not recognised,they may be literary or artistic rather than musical,but every ordinary person should have the oppurtunity and belief thatthey can be creative in some form or other,and, those talents need to be encouraged rather than smothered


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:33 AM

It's actually somewhat tragic that we're even discussing this womans 'looks' here at all, though I understand that it's in reaction or response to the banal bullshit the media pumps out so predictably.
Woo, big shocker! Someone 'ordinary looking' can sing.. And there was me thinking that one must be Barbie incarnate to manage a tune. Funny old thing, but I was scouring YouTube earlier today, and what a fine bunch of women singers we used to have (though to be fair I was primarily looking at American female singers - incidentally discovering the kick ass Big Mamma Thornton I Smell a Rat in the process!)- and composed of so many sizes and shapes and with missing teeth and all...

Where did all these class act ladies go?
Not that I'm knocking girls possessed of natural beauty - who can also sing, but somethings wrong with this picture when it becomes a shock to modern audiences (and cause for debate!), that a woman who isn't also exceptionally physically lovely, can sing well...


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:40 AM

What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:44 AM

she has not been manufactured,unlike some of the stars of the folk and pop scence

Which stars of the folk scene have been manufactured?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:49 AM

The old Hollywood studio system was famous for manufacturing stars. Kim Novack is one of that group.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:59 AM

I am offended that this folk and blues site has threads about friggin' Morris Dancing. While they might use folk music, Morris Dancing itself is NOT folk music........No one really knows what it is but it sure as hell isn't folk or blues music.

So take all that weird shit to a site where they talk about it like http://weirdfuckinshit.com

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:07 PM

think about it Folkie Dave,think hard.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:10 PM

"So take all that weird shit to a site where they talk about it like http://weirdfuckinshit.com"

Spaw, you're a terrible tease, a whetter and dasher of unnatural appetites and quite possibly a jadrool. There I was, ready and willing to take your seemingly excellent advice (goddammit, it sounded like my kind of forum!) when I discovered to my dismay it was all faked.

Bah.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:10 PM

Above.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

Kendall asked me Diane, ease up and while you are at it, define folk music

No to both.

What, moi? I don't even use such a sell-by-expired term. It means all manner of different, often extremely peculiar, things to too many people. Like PPM, the Seekers, Julie Felix, CSN&Y, Joan Baez on a non-political day. Or here in the British Isles it means something for the nasty right to latch onto, or else Vashti (clip-clop) ,Bunyan, men in woolly jumpers or wifty-wafty, celticky, tie-dyed, wicker-person-type, patchouli-tinged Enyaesque twee nightmares.

On my way to Fiddles On Fire this morning, I was looking over somebody's shoulder at the Sun on the tube (just scanning the day's posts, ha!, a place in the Sun, jeez who wants that?). It had a full-page pin-up poster of the Scottish warbler, I kid you not. If she's allowing herself to be exploited in that way, is the publicity machine that's already huffing and puffing behind her going to let her take a gig headlining your local festival? That's assuming any organiser would be bonkers enough to try and book her. I think not. She wants to be Elaine Paige, apparently.

I also see someone is standing on their head and going into the most improbable contortions trying to equate Lloyd-Webber-like / C-M Schönbergish-type shit with music of the agitprop theatre. Stop now. Such comparisons are total bollocks. [Historical note: Ewan MacColl certainly had the music hall as a role model, but Carousel and My Fair Lady? Oh no].

Ease up on what anyway? Musical standards? I've just spent the day in the company of some of the finest string players in the universe. In the words of someone you might recognise from one of your dumbed down adaptations of a Shaw play: "Not bloody likely".


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:17 PM

Diane, you aren't jealous of her, are you?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:20 PM

guardian piece today

There was also a nice piece by AL Kennedy, but it seems only on paper.

Penny


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:21 PM

Actually I slipped past Captain B's reference to manufactured folk performers, with the rest of his post resonating as it did for me. I can't think of anyone here on the U.S. scene who would come to mind. I don't see anyone in the mainstream media here as being apt to try to manufacture a folk "star". Going back a few decades, something like the New Christy Minstrels or the Serendipitty-doo-da Singers. Even those put out some vinyl that was good for a little fun if not taken at all seriously.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:22 PM

Captain Birdseye, I said I would like to hear her sing Song for Ireland. Thats all I said. I did not say she should or shouldn't. I hate it when some wag reads between the lines. I say exactly what I want to say, no more, no less.
Diane, what I meant by ease up (quite clear to me) is by now it should be obvious even to a self centered, pedantic, verbose pain in that ass that you are like a wet dog at a wedding.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:24 PM

kennedy piece

Here's the Kennedy piece


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:38 PM

There have been several threads on Mudcat taking offense at the way the mainstream media dismisses and mocks folk music, but that's nothing compared to the reaction of some of the posters here who seem to feel that any singer who chooses a genre other than folk music is beneath consideration, and that any music that isn't folk music, or tradtional music, or whatever we want to call it (I don't want to go there...) is somehow tainted or inferior. What a narrow, limited way to approach music. I listen almost exclusively to folk music, usually traditional - and within that I include many ethnic types of music so the spectrum is quite broad. My CD collection consists almost entirely of traditional music of one kind or another. But I can still appreciate other genres of music - including some pop, broadway, opera, etc. I enjoy singers like Shirley Bassey, Liza Minelli, Elvis Presley, Charles Aznavour and (I confess) Enrico Macias.   There are certain voices that are just 'gifted' - I woulc include in that category Amalia Rodriguez, Elvis Presley, Julio Iglesas (not his choice of material - his voice), Willie Nelson and, I believe. Susan Boyle. I don't think she's only destined for 15 minutes of fame. It reminds me a little of John McDermott, who made a CD recording of "Danny Boy" for his mother that somehow got into the hands of a music producer. He's got a spectacular voice too, although I don't much care for his choice of songs.

I'm glad she got her big break. I hope life takes her in wonderful directions she never dared to dream of.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:40 PM

Even in that article, Kennedy has a a couple of phrases that could have been done without: "Boyle is hearty about her snacks, she has the slightly masculine bearing of the long-term single lady". Does he actually have a clue as to how much she eats? Is there any real tendency for mature single women to have more "slightly masculine bearing" than otherwise similar women who are married? Apart from those caveats, I thought Kennedy came across very well.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: open mike
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:42 PM

there is a link on face book where you can become her fan:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1094866528&ref=profile#/pages/Susan-Boyle/64833259561?ref=nf


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

Song For Ireland

Ah, yes. Forgot I had something to say about this.
Phil & June Colclough from Staffordshire wrote this. They are not Irish but had a great love for the country and considerable insight into the Irish political situation.
Dick Gaughan (who is half Irish) has said that an Irish person could not have written it because it needs some distance to get that sort of perspective and, likewise, to sing it effectively and with conviction.
What evidence is there that this Caledonian warbler is not a raving, orange-clad Rangers fan?

Still not even contemplating "easing up". Pah. No chance.
Oh, and when you take your sopping dog for a walk, don't forget the pooper-scooper.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:50 PM

yes,Kendall ,my old wag,and I said that I wouldnt like to hear her sing it,I said she should sing that which she enjoys singing.
same as you and me.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: open mike
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:58 PM

become a fan here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=72212861218

the you tube clip posted here has had 25,714,086 views!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:11 PM

I do not think people talking about something other than folk music means they don't love folk music. It's not a loyalty issue.

Diane, I don't know why you have to post to a thread you don't like 16 times in a relatively short amount of time and just make an off-hand remark about Fiddles on Fire. One might think you actually enjoy the negativity. Would you really rather talk about something you don't like in a thread you don't think should exist with people you don't respect than start a thread on something you DO like? Never heard of the show before, and it would probably make for a great thread.

I don't the performance was set up, but definitely edited. For me, the charm is in the surprise. Everybody watching it can feel like they've made a discovery in an unlikely place.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:16 PM

Back to the thread topic...

CNN has posted a video of interviews with the pub owner and the church organist in Susan's home town.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/04/18/shubert.uk.boyle.neighbors.cnn

"Hometown Proud Of New Star"

They are proud of her and that she is being "just herself". Unvarnished, unpolished, and brimming with heart.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:21 PM

"That's nothing compared to the reaction of some of the posters here who seem to feel that any singer who chooses a genre other than folk music is beneath consideration"

As ever, this is in part a thread about individual musical taste, perfectly exemplified by the post the above quote is from. Some people like light entertainment MOR type singers, some wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Statements like "anyone who likes singing MUST like this" are meaningless. No-one has to like anything. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's chips, but these public compulsions, like the beatification of Diana and the vilification and later beatification of Jade Goody are simply weird. And if you dissent you're not simply stating an opinion - you're actually BAD. Social psychologists will have a field day.

Personally I don't watch these talent shows, because "they say nothing to me about my life" (to quote the once sainted now moribund Morrissey). Having said that, I listen to plenty of stuff most Mudcatters wouldn't pee on if it was on fire, stuff which gives me far more pleasure than I get from Shirley Bassey or Elaine Paige and their soundalikes, for example, which frankly, makes me want to leave the room. 'Orses for courses, guv. Nothing more and nothing less.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:31 PM

No problem with other people's opinions. What pisses me off is when those particular people go on to castigate others because they they are taking part in the discussion. If you don't like the thread subject, stay out of the thread.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:33 PM

this is a great victory,for everyone that believes in home made music

What's home made about it? She did a full length course at a drama school.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM

(1) I'm not talking about "f*lk" music. I never do. Read innumerable posts passim.

(2) I am also not making "offhand remarks" about Fiddles On Fire. I find it remarkable and excellent that Folkworks have brought this to London. Ali Anderson was grinning all over his face at its success, and justly so.

(3) What I did make an offhand remark about was that someone's Sun on the tube this morning on the way to said event had a full-page poster of this latest manufactured karaoke "star".

[The Sun is a disgusting, Murdoch-owned travesty of a daily newspaper renowned for its page 3 featuring an abundance of unclad tits].


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:00 PM

"One might think you actually enjoy the negativity."

Heh! Quite likely, Jeri! ;-) The world is chock full of confrontational people who thoroughly enjoy getting upset or really worked up about something, trivial or otherwise, and then mouthing off about it to anyone who will listen. It strengthens their perhaps fragile sense of identity, bolsters their hungry ego, and makes them feel like their powerful opinion fecking matters...!   (that's always questionable)(and definitely up for debate)

But Spaw - I am very upset to find out that the site weirdfuckinshit.com does not exist! I had hoped to find much there that would interest me. You owe me, man. Bigtime.

Regarding the Morris Dancing...well, I have to agree with you 100% there. No way that weirdass archaic incomprehensible stuff should be allowed to be discussed on this Folk and Blues site. Uh-uh. It's definitely not appropriate. W.C. Fields hated Morris Dancers! So did luminaries such as Elmore Bumwit and Fuckminster Buller. Even hamsters can't tolerate it, and they'e very tolerant creatures. In my opinion, Morris Dancing should be banned outright in the civilized world.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

jack ,how is that different form someone having guitar lessons.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:23 PM

The Sun is indeed disgusting. We have its spiritual equivalent here in Canada, the Toronto Sun. It is probably the stupidest newspaper in this country, focusing mainly on sex, pics of babes in bikinis (but no actual nudity...this is Canada!), violence, shameless pandering to people's grossest emotions, and stories that elicit fear and hatred and promote a fascist social agenda.

I can't help but wonder if these two illustrious periodicals are owned by the same corporate management?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:29 PM

The conversation, while it was about Susan Boyle and the competition she entered, was interesting. Since Diane Easby and her sour attitude keeps coming back and jerking the thread around to everything else, it is getting boring. Maybe she'll spend long enough at her Flippin' Fumin' Fiddles today that the conversation will have an opportunity to get back on track?

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:38 PM

SRS,Why do youkeep flaming,do you have apersonal grudge against Diane Easby


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Quasi Modo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:48 PM

Being ugly hasn't done Dick Gaughan any harm.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:51 PM

Norman D, you're right about Susan being put on TV because of her visual image - and its contrast to her vocal skill.   There are no doubt equally gifted singers turned away at Broadway auditions every day.   Vocal talent like Susan's may be 1 in 100,000, even maybe 1 in a million - it's not 1 in a trillion.   
But I think the reason Susan is winning "fans" around the world goes beyond just the plain-Jane-with-the-beautiful-voice thing.   What impresses me most is how genuine and natural and self-accepting she is. I admire and envy her that more than I envy her voice, and I'd wager a lot of more conventionally "beautiful" people around the world are drawn to her for the same reason.

Genie

PS
Mark Bernier, I agree this lady has incredible courage, confidence, grit. Call it whatever you like, except can we please find a less sexist expression to describe a woman with these qualities than "she's got balls?"
*g*


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:58 PM

Flaming? I don't think so. If she's a friend of yours, why don't you escort her over to a thread where she'll be happier. She's turned this one into a slug fest. There are lots of links out there now with more information about Susan Boyle. But when I came back this afternoon to look to see if any had been posted here, I see that Ms. Easby, as unhappy as ever, has continued to return, despite having no apparent interest in the woman, her music, or the discussion. It gets boring to read after a while. You'd think a well-placed dismissal yesterday would have taken care of the problem, wouldn't you?

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM

Crow Sister, amen to your post about why we're discussing Susan's appearance - more than we'd be focusing on the appearance of an equally ordinary-looking man. Even in the days of radio the women were often expected to be more glamourous than the men, but, yes, there were very notable exceptions: Kate Smith, Ella Fitzgerald, Mahalia Jackson, etc.   
But Piers Plowman's reply to my example -- "Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman." -- makes my point. Piers said "Oh, I thought Bea Arthur was a very attractive and impressive-looking woman. "
She was (maybe still is), but Bea in her 40s or 50s would not have been cast as a romantic lead opposite a man of the same age who was considered a sex symbol comparable to Sophia Loren, while the movie industry thinks nothing of pairing Jack Nicholson with beautiful 30-something women.    That double standard is alive and well.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM

Check out today's NY Times where they talk of her talent, all the strictures placed on her (and other contestants regarding the press, contracts, and representation).   I loved their description of the judges---the men--"smarmy" and the lady being the antithesis of the Ms Boyle in her appearance which physically precludes her being able to show any emotion (read make-up/surgery)

A nice interview with Ms. Boyles brother was included.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Phil
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:21 PM

Just an amasing singer. WOW.

Phil*


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:25 PM

I'm afraid I don't understand quite why a song from musical theater is considered by some to be MOR or "middle of the road." MOR = elevator music? What I usually hear in elevators are things like "The 101 Strings" doing saccharine arrangements of rock songs from thirty to fifty years ago with an occasional Bobby Goldsboro song thrown in, or often these days, André Rieu sawing away at Strauss waltzes.

MOR used to be considered "middle of the radio dial," or what is currently popular at any given time—what all the "hip" people are listening to, sometimes referred to as "acne rock" (although most rock stations considered themselves to be quite "avante garde"). Interesting to note that in the U. S. during the late 1950s and up until the "British Invasion" in 1964 or '65, this consisted of folk music. Or what passed for folk music (see "A Mighty Wind").

By the way, Folkdavie, "Which stars of the folk scene have been manufactured?"

Several individuals and groups. People such as Al Grossman "manufactured" a number of "folk" singers, most notably Bob Gibson, Bob Dylan, and Peter Paul and Mary. He was prowling after Joan Baez, but she smelled him coming, took evasive action, and hired Manny Greenhill as her manager.

Try contrasting someone like, say, Paris Hilton, an out-of-the-cookie-cutter Barbie doll, who, as far as I know, has no perceivable talent and is famous only for being famous, with someone like Susan Boyle who actually has a genuine talent along with a strong urge to share it. In just universe, who really merits fame and fortune?

To suggest that Susan Boyle should try her hand at singing folk songs reminds me of something Jean Redpath said. She'd been singing concerts, folk festivals, clubs, etc., and making records for a couple of decades when some woman came up to her after a concert and said, "You have such a lovely voice. Have you ever thought of doing something with it?"

Astronomers look at the Cosmos with the most powerful telescopes available to them, and they discover marvels. Some folks seem to insist on looking at the wide universe of Music through a key hole and end up just bitching and complaining.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:28 PM

frogprince: " ... Kennedy has a a couple of phrases that could have been done without: "Boyle is hearty about her snacks, she has the slightly masculine bearing of the long-term single lady." Does he actually have a clue as to how much she eats? Is there any real tendency for mature single women to have more "slightly masculine bearing" than otherwise similar women who are married? Apart from those caveats, I thought Kennedy came across very well."

Agreed. On both points.
Another otherwise-positive article referred to Susan as a "spinster" - another archaic term we'd do well not to disembalm.

Does anyone say of Ronan Tynan, "I can't believe that voice is coming from someone who looks like THAT?" Or describe him as "hearty about his snacks?" Etc.?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:37 PM

(1) As previously stated, there is no-one posting to this thread who is personally known to me. And, furthermore, I will not be led by the hand or nose "somewhere else".

(2) I am, actually, extremely happy, having spent the day (also as previously stated) with supremely talented musicians at Folkworks.

(3) On my journey to said Fiddles On Fire, I saw a copy of the vile Sun which is actually giving away posters of this talent-show heat-winning singer.

(4) Yesterday, there was a considerable body of opinion behind my contention that an unknown karaoke singer on a crap TV reality show warbling stuff from Les Mis had precious little relevance to the forum.

(5) That she is being backed by scummy Murdoch media would seem to reinforce this.

(5) A small cabale of disgruntled downmarket show-tune wallowers appear to want everyone to talk about only what they want to talk about and so keep up an insulting, patronising hail of abuse.

(6) A "personal grudge" against me has been suggested, but the perpetrators don't even know me. I suggest rather that the grudge is against Folkworks and The Sage which they inhabit on the south bank of the Tyne. It's a copyright war, people. SRS has the hump! Ahhhhh.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

LittleHawk, maybe you shouldn't be too sad that weirdfuckinshit.com.   Since that domain name hasn't been snapped up yet, I see it as a potentially great investment opportunity for an inventive sort with a penchant for that sort of thing.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:51 PM

It's true that Grossman "manufactured" (or better said: orchestrated) highly successful careers for a whole series of performers, including those you mentioned, Don. It's also true, however, that they all had talent worthy of those successful careers. Grossman just happened to be the man to successfully market it to the public, that's all. That was his talent.

Baez, given her altruistic character, would not have been comfortable with Albert Grossman, so she probably made the right move in a personal sense by going with Greenhill...although Grossman would have made more money for her by far, I expect.

Now ask Joan Baez if she thinks Bob Dylan deserved the success he got in the business...she clearly has the highest opinion of his creative and performance abilities, as I think he does also of hers. There's no reason to dump on people just because a slippery character like Grossman helped them to market themselves far more effectively when they were young and starting out.

Stilly - You said: "You'd think a well-placed dismissal yesterday would have taken care of the problem, wouldn't you?"

Ah! But that's probably just the kind of thing Diane Easeby is thinking too, whenever she hits the "submit" key and delivers her own "well-placed dismissal". Think about it. Get two people like that reacting ever more huffily to each other's last comments and it just goes on forever and ever....like the energizer bunny.

How about if I offer a free copy of "What Is Folk Music - The Compleat Answer to the Question of the Ages?" (by Allen Folkwrightson, Stingout Press 1972) to whoever stops counterreacting first? This will be confirmed by no such counterreaction in 100 consecutive posts on the thread (by all participants).


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:52 PM

Diane Easby,is someone I have never met.
I saw her fleetingly in about 1974 at CecilSharp house,but have never actually met her,so she is not an acquaintance and not a friend.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:59 PM

What Is Folk Music - The Compleat Answer to the Question of the Ages?

No, absolutely not.
I do not even want to clap eyes on such a tome.
You need to raise the stakes a hell of a lot higher than that.

Dick: Diane Easby is [ . . . ] not a friend.

Oh dear.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:12 PM

Little Hawk, I didn't say that these singers didn't deserve their success. But be it noted that Grossman put a couple of trios together that simply didn't work before he found Mary Travers, Peter Yarrow, and Noel (Paul) Stookey and got them together. That combo worked.

Dave Van Ronk made the comment about Grossman that he was really amazing. He could follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you. And two hours after you'd had a conversation with him, you suddenly discovered that he'd stolen your underwear!

As to Bob Dylan, had it not been for Grossman's management and the fact that Joan Baez took him around with her on her concert tours, introduced him, then chewed the audience out when they booed him, one can't really say where he might have ended up.

But that discussion is for another thread.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:13 PM

There are no negative people in my real world. I have weeded them all out.I don't know Diane Easby and I don't want to. Thats probably the only thing we agree on.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:24 PM

Mostly she seems to keep posting the same messages several times in the thread. Does repetition make them more accurate? No.

LH, we weren't talking about folk music, we weren't talking about Easby's music, we were talking about Susan Boyle's music. Easby registered her complaint. Many of us have been known to register complaints, and sometimes even go back and clarify. That's not what this is. Easby's looking for an argument, and is too lazy to even type up new posts each time, she's wasting our space and her time by cutting and pasting herself. Yawn.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:38 PM

As a point of clarification, one post of mine is duplicated. This because it vanished and I reposted. Then Joe Offer reinstated the original. If someone hadn't been playing silly buggers in the first place this would not have occurred,

Just wondered how SRS is getting on with preparing the law suit against The Sage for name hijacking and impersonation. Or indeed how many Sun posters of the Caledonian karaoke queen are being stuck up in windows the length and breadth of Clydeside. Or whether she is indeed a Rangers supporter.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:42 PM

Hey Hawk.....Ya' know......We been mucking about with tons of crappola for years that really does belong on a site like weirdfuckinshit.com.   We oughta' get the domain name and start with little stories and tales of weird fuckin' shit........like Morris Dancing......or people who have never been seen........or volatile violins.........I think we need this as Mudcat is a folk and blues site and we need to get crap like fiery fiddles off of here.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:03 PM

Susan said she went to the audition knowing people would be cynical about her. She just went there to sing. She was confident that she would win them over.

It's interesting that some people are cynical without even really seeing or hearing her.

It takes all kinds to make a world, and cynics will always be with us.

I think a lot of people are fed up with the cynicism and negativity. I think that is one reason why she is endearing to people around the world who now know about her. Her self confidence and unassuming manner is what makes her so appealing. Her voice with a personality not so endearing would not have brought on such world wide interest. She seems to be a genuinely positive and optimistic person, and people are hungry for that right now.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:03 PM

I bet you bore each other equally, Stilly. ;-D Or at least you would claim to.

Actually, I think you're providing yourselves (and probably some other people here, like me) with much entertainment. If not, you wouldn't come back to this thread, would you? This can't all be bad.

Diane - I was afraid that book wouldn't be nearly enough to tempt you. Hmm. I'll just have to come up with something far better. Give me some time to mull it over, okay?

Don - Come on. Yeah, sure, we could consume massive amounts of bandwidth discussing it and arguing about it...and we'd probably better not...but do you honestly not see that Bob Dylan had talent worthy of his success, regardless of Albert Grossman? Without the help of Grossman, Joan Baez, and a couple of other key individuals like John Hammond and the reviewer who gave him a rave review shortly after his arrival in New York, it would have taken him longer to make it. I figure...maybe a year longer. Maybe two years at the most. But he would definitely have made it, because his songs were perfect for the time. As far as I'm concerned, that kid was simply unstoppable.

If you don't happen to like his particular style...fine. Your taste is not my business. But I don't see how you can deny his talent or his own effectiveness at getting his career rolling with a very concentrated and focused effort.

It takes more than just talent to succeed in that business. It also takes grit, determination, and a hell of a lot of hard work.

Baez's audiences booed the young Bob at first because they had come there to listen to Joan. They had expectations. He didn't sound anything like what they thought they were there for. That is what happens to many opening acts at a lot of performances, because the average person has a pretty short attention span, a large measure of ignorance, and little patience for something not fitting his expectations. Joan lectured them so they would stop...think...and actually listen. And when they did...it worked. That's all people need to do with any act that's any good. Stop. Think. Actually listen.

Sooner or later people were bound to listen to Bob Dylan. They just needed to make the decision first that they wanted to, that's all. They had to think he was "somebody" first. The water cannot flow till you open the tap in your mind, and opening the tap is your decision. Someone else whom you respect can definitely hasten your making of that decision with just a few choice words. That's what Joan did for Bob and for the audience when she took him out on her tours. She did it because she knew he was worth it.

Would not any of us do the same? I hope so.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:05 PM

I don't know what in hell you're talking about now, Diane. Why don't you take a BC and call someone on Monday morning?

Meanwhile, ON THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD,

There are lots of Google hits on Ms. Boyle now.

Many of those are blog remarks, but there are also some new articles and intereviews mixed in.

L.A. Times has an article that sums up what a lot of interviews and articles have come up with so far.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:06 PM

Alice, not unusually, you have once again hit the proverbial nail.

{;<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:10 PM

Like I said, Little Hawk, this is a discussion for another thread.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:19 PM

Okay. ;-)

Regarding Susan Boyle, I found her performance very good...specially her spunky personality and excellent stage presence. I would probably have appreciated the song itself a bit more if I was more familiar it in the first place, but I'm not. It sounded good, as far as that goes, but it's sort of far away from what I usually would find myself listening to.

It was enjoyable seeing the reactions in the judges and audience. Naturally that was edited for the best possible effect.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:20 PM

Little Hawk, MOM is looking for you. . .


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:00 PM

Old Maine saying: "Ignore it, maybe it will go away."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:05 PM

::: This is a great victory,for everyone that believes in home made music
:: What's home made about it? She did a full length course at a drama school.
: jack ,how is that different form someone having guitar lessons.

She had much the same training Elaine Paige got - just didn't do anything with it for a long time. Voice production, acting, the lot. That's a long step up from a few lessons with a local guy who advertises with a handwritten index card on the supermarket noticeboard.

She's being presented as a naive untutored talent making it against a hostile world, when in fact she had exactly the skills required to do the job the media industry wanted done (basically, to be the next big human-interest story, filling the gap vacated by Jade Goody).


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:08 PM

Jack, she was born with some brain damage and has learning difficulties. She's an amateur, in spite of having some singing lessons.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:11 PM

They called her Susie Bong, or Susie Simple. This week Susie Simple went global.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1171536/They-called-Susie-Simple-si


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:25 PM

The article about "Susie Simple" that I just linked to is the best one that I've read about her so far.

To quote from it..
"Recalling her childhood, she said earlier this week: 'I was born with a disability and that made me a target for bullies.

'I was called names because of my fuzzy hair and because I struggled in class. I told the teachers but, because it was more verbal than physical, I could never prove anything.

'But words often hurt more than cuts and bruises and the scars are still there.'


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:41 PM

She is, Stilly? Feets do yo' stuff! I am already gone.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:58 PM

I knew a woman who was slightly developmentally delayed—a learning disability, actually. Her name was Maureen. The kids at school teased her unmercifully and called her "Maureen the Moron." This poor woman had a miserable self-image, hated her name (preferred to be called "Kitten"), hated herself, was afraid of everybody and everything, and died quite early.

Damned shame. I wonder what kind of life she might have had if the kids had just been a little nicer to her.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM

I hope she wins the 100,000. gets kissed full on the mouth and goes back to her simple life.
Karaoke, indeed. LOL


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:52 PM

What a low down disingenuous remark that was... Caledonian karaoke queen indeed! Look, I dont give a rodent's rump if she is as phony as a three dollar bill, she has a dynamite voice.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:40 PM

From another article with more details:

"Last Saturday night the whole street turned out to wish her well after the programme ended. All the doors opened and everyone piled out shouting congratulations to her."

But family friend Elaine Clarke, 47, is worried the attention may be too much for Susan, who has lived in the same village all her life, sheltered by loved ones.

"Susan is shy around people she doesn't know until she sings – and then she loves an audience. She is well known in the village for her beautiful voice and sings regularly at the pub. She sings all the time and when she has the windows open we can hear her all over the street.

"When we have barbecues in the summer she goes from garden to garden singing. She's safe here in this village but she needs to be properly managed with all this success. I hope she's looked after."

link... click here


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:46 PM

Dinner date planned for Susan. Be very nice, Piers!

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:41 AM

"She had much the same training Elaine Paige got - just didn't do anything with it for a long time. Voice production, acting, the lot. That's a long step up from a few lessons with a local guy who advertises with a handwritten index card on the supermarket noticeboard.

"She's being presented as a naive untutored talent making it against a hostile world, when in fact she had exactly the skills required to do the job the media industry wanted done. . . ."

Jack—and others—let me explain a couple of things. I spent a three years at the University of Washington School of Music and another two years at the Cornish School of the Arts, a sort of intensive instruction conservatory. Around me were dozens of students who were taking lessons, practicing, learning music theory, studying up a storm with sight singing, ear training, performing in student ensembles—the works. Considerably more intensive than the kind of training that Susan Boyle may have had. Many of my fellow students had dreams of concert careers.

Some of the people I went to school with, I heard of later on, making their way down their chosen musical path. But the vast majority of them vanished into obscurity. Became church organists or choir directors, teachers, or just plain couldn't cut it in a music career.

Training can only polish what you already have. The moment of truth comes when a performer gets up in front of an audience. So regardless of whatever training she may or not have had, and regardless of whether or not the television show was a carefully stage-managed phony set-up—when the time came and she was out there, alone, on the stage, Susan Boyle delivered.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 01:01 AM

I agree with Don.

When you watch that video and she finishes the song, what does she do? She turns to leave the stage. I think this is because that song was her goal. Who knows where she thought this would go after she sang, she probably didn't have a clue as to the response. Perhaps she expected her non-show-biz looks to exclude her from going further. But she did what she went there to do.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 01:28 AM

My take on it exactly, Maggie.   Susan had 'won' the moment she got the awe-struck reaction from the judges and the crowd.   So she proudly and happily walked off, neither expecting nor, really, needing more. Whatever else comes of it is icing on the cake.

I do hope she isn't exploited at her expense. E.g., I'd like to think she'll find a nice chap who really cares for her - if that's what she wants - instead of having someone like Piers Morgan or Simon Cowell plant some sort of 'mercy smooch' on her as her first kiss.

She does in some ways seem to be a bit of a naïf - a delightful one. But I wish the media would quit calling her a "spinster," dammit!    That's so 19th Century. Oy!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 01:39 AM

If she were a Mudcatter then Jacqui could tell Piers and Simon "cellar!" and that would be that!


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 10:58 AM

I have just re read this thread , and now appreciate why a lot if 'Good' people no longer bother with MudCat ! A HELL of a lot of interesting comment interspersed with such intense Negativity from a small minority !
Ms Easby is obviously of the opinion that ANYTHING that a lot of people enjoy cannot POSSIBLY be worth listening to .
And Mr Campin obviously thinks that people who are more interested in 'Show' type songs OUGHT to be taking them to the Linlithgow Folk Club !
Lord Give Me Strength !


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 11:37 AM

Mark Blankenship is an award-winning critic and reporter.
He contributes to internationally recognized publications like The New York Times and Variety, and his hundreds of reviews and features have covered everything from avant garde theatre and classic cinema to popular music and trash television.

He writes... 'I have a theory on why Susan Boyle has become such an instant and inescapable internet star.'

'By now, it's an unavoidable trope: The unusual-looking, weirdly-mannered outcast shambles on stage for an audition on a show like American Idol or America's Got Talent and promptly makes a fool of herself. Her embarrassment is played for tawdry laughs, and viewers are encouraged to feel superior to her and so feel better about themselves.

And obviously, the producers of Britain's Got Talent know that.

They introduce Boyle with the goofy music reserved for the usual freak, and they show her talking about how she's never been kissed and how she lives with a cat.
The audience audibly mocks her as soon as she takes the stage, which encourages all of us at home to sharpen our claws.

After that, her singing—which is very good, if not quite excellent— naturally causes an uproar. We've been primed for dog food, but we get a burger, so it tastes like steak.

This narrative is just as manipulative as anything else on reality television, of course. Boyle could have been presented as a winner from the very start, but that would've ruined the drama.

But as fabricated as it is, her on-camera arc is undeniably moving.

That's partially because Boyle herself seems so lovely, but it's also because this clip enacts a story that we want to be true.
No matter how much we mock those we consider beneath us, it's much more satisfying to be reminded that everyone has dignity.'

full report


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM

"We've been primed for dog food, but we get a burger, so it tastes like steak."

I think that's a bit of an underevaluation of Susan's talent. I'd say we were primed for dog foot, but we got a steak, so it tasted like filet mignon.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:03 PM

I am waiting for the first "kiss and tell" story in the Sun.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:06 PM

I've always wondered at a society which has to have everything it does analysed. The articles are all well and good and I know I've not been shy about putting in my two cents worth, but why can't we just watch and enjoy, or not, without having to go on and on about it, quoting the pundits to back us up, etc. I am not targetting anyone specifically, just pondering.

A while back I was going to say she is benefiting from the "Obama effect"...she has struck the same deep down chords of hope, elation, let's-hear-it-for-the-little-people that he did in his campaign and that some of us believe he continues to do...she had that same audacity of hope. And, no, I do not think she should go into politics. How pathetic is it that I feel a need to even say that; that I believe someone will come in and denigrate what I've just expressed and highjack the thread? *sigh* I would like to have a hope of civility, at least.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:12 PM

Nicely put Kat.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:22 PM

Been trying to remember when I agreed with a critic last....


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:24 PM

It basically boils down to this, Kat. A lot of people (well, most people...) simply love to here themselves talk. It confirms and strengthens their own sense of their identity.

So, no matter what is ever being discussed here, a variety of people will drop in and do that...and their opinions will always vary. A person whose opinion diverges widely from the majority will generally feel that they are considerably smarter than the majority, and they will enjoy fighting over their differing opinion with the majority. The majority, on the other hand, will generally feel much superior to the lone outsider (or two) and they will enjoy ganging up on those outsiders and thoroughly castigating them...hopefully driving them finally off the thread. The more the these two sets of people fight, the nastier it gets, the more stubborn they all get, and the greater becomes their emotional investment in defending their chosen position (whatever the heck it is), and the lower sinks their respect and courtesy toward those they are contending with.

And there you have the Internet! ;-) It's a battle of flaming egos, conducted at a safe distance, with a singular lack of regard for the kind of restraint we might all normally show when dealing with others face to face.

On the other hand, to look on the positive side, it can be quite mentally stimulating and entertaining at times if you don't let the rancour get you down too much. ;-D


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:35 PM

here is agood reason why people dont bother with Mudcat,they dont like to be called Pedants,and Humourless,neither do they like to be called certified assholes,or any of the other unneccessary insults,that people on this forum heap on each other.
we are all entitled to different opinions,and we should be able to respect that without insulting someone because they take a different viewpoint.
if every member of this forum gave themselves 30 minutes before they preesed the message button,this would be a better place
The best thing about this FORUM,imo,are the threads where people pass on musical knowledge.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 12:50 PM

You're quite right, Captain Birdseye, but to change that situation, this forum would have to be moderated according to a whole new set of rules, and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

At least, though, the behaviour here is generally a lot more reasonable than the comments you see on sites like YouTube. I think that's probably because the membership here is not on average nearly as youthful as on Youtube...where a lot of people behave in an extremely ignorant fashion toward one another, as if they never learned one thing in their lives about manners or consideration for others.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM

This has been a fairy story for our time. However, I fear for Susan's privacy now, for her dignity. Being silly on stage, giving the grind and the quick-step to the mouthy audience as a "here's back at you" retort seems to have opened the floodgates of speculation. There will be parties out there who wish for big headlines to sell their stories, whether in print or online, and will get those headlines at her expense.

I hope that village of hers has the good sense to help her when she needs it. Help protect her privacy.

SRS


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM

'why can't we just watch and enjoy, or not?'

The original video link appears to me, to be, at least, about the cynical manipulation of emotions to attract a viewing audience at least as it is about a woman's singing performance and I feel this is a valid topic of discussion.

As certain kinds of 'trained' voices and material tend to leave me unmoved I usually rely on those with much greater experience than myself to comment on how 'very good' or 'excellent' they are; I can only form a subjective view.
Personally, I prefer to hear a folk song sung by someone with an affinity for the simplicity of the lyrics and melody - probably why I'm a folk fan!

Whether you agree with a critic or not is down to personal tastes and quite often whether it's yourself that's the subject of the critic :)

What did move me about the clip however was the reason that I never watch these kind of stage managed so-called 'reality' shows and served to reinforce my opinion not to change that decision.

I wish Miss Boyle the very best if she wishes to persue a career in singing this kind of show song and the very sincere desire that she remain outside the influence of Max Clifford and the pages of the Sun


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 02:06 PM

I'm sorry, Mark Blankenship may be an award winning critic, but in this case, he's a horse's ass way off base.

After he sets it up in a manner that is just as cynical as he accuses the show of being, he says, ". . . her singing—which is very good, if not quite excellent. . . ." demonstrates that, as a music critic, he ought to seriously consider taking up plumbing.

I mentioned above that ever since high school, I have known people who are involved in musical theater, although I have not been a direct participant myself. And I've known personally, and heard, singers with all kinds of voices, from completely untrained all the way to opera singers, and all points between. Music theater is not my major musical interest, but I've heard a lot of it and I enjoy it when it's well done.

Susan Boyle has an excellent singing voice, especially for music theater. Her singing voice has a quality to it, in all senses of the word, that is right up there with the best of the seasoned professionals. All she really needs is a little polish, which would come with a bit of experience and with the guidance of a good director.

This fledgling has fully developed wings, and she's ready to fly.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: caitlin rua
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 03:34 PM

I fully agree with Don. I was disgusted by the grudgingly-qualified praise, as though he can see things more deeply than everybody else. "Very good, if not quite excellent"?? Hamburger but not steak?????????   

If he had been watching some pretty young dolly bird playing Fantine in a professional production of Les Miz who could sing half as well as that, I don't think such damning with faint praise would even occur to him. The fact that the context was an amateur talent contest has obviously coloured his judgment. You HAVE to find fault. It goes with the territory. Look how much money Simon Cowell has made just for dissing people. Everybody on the internet is shouting Hooray For Susan? Well, cut her down to size. Show them all what a perceptive critic you are.

What he is, is a twerp. Those comments are more about Mark BlanketWet than about Susan Boyle. And they reveal more than he counted on too. It's not that no one can dare criticise her. But those remarks are unconstructive and dishonestly self-serving, using Susan to show us all what a clever clogs he is for seeing what we've obviously all missed. In his dreams.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

Captain B, I have no problem with an opinion different from mine; it's when the other person not only states his/her opinion but also has to try to invalidate mine or change what I said.

Hawk, if you knew me you would also know that I don't say anything in the forum that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

As far as Diane Easby goes, there is an old Jewish proverb: "If a man calls you an ass you may ignore him. If TWO men call you an ass, buy a saddle."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 04:14 PM

I suspect that the "awww" factor regarding Susan Boyle's appearance is due mostly to her homeliness and her statement that she's "never been kissed". I find her singing, while technically accomplished, to be quite strident sounding, with a sort of trumpety quality. Not someone whose record I would buy.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 05:28 PM

And Mr Campin obviously thinks that people who are more interested in 'Show' type songs OUGHT to be taking them to the Linlithgow Folk Club !
Lord Give Me Strength !


You know perfectly well that I meant no such thing. Cut the bullshit rhetorical tricks.

In practice LFC gets all sort of stuff at the many and various kind of events they run. I could well imagine somebody turning up to one of the Black Bitch singarounds and doing Cry Me a River. The Lloyd Webber thing is a lot less likely.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 05:53 PM

I wonder if Claude-Michel Schonberg is really tired of having his composition credited to Andrew Lloyd Webber.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 07:01 PM

Oh, I should think there are rather more than two men (or possibly also women) who are even now extracting the poster of the Caledonian Karaoke Queen from yesterday's Sun and blue-tacking it to their bedroom walls.

Whether they consider those whose musical aspirations are more elevated and thus somewhat different from the overblown, bombastic, MOR drivel emanating from the pens of C-M Schönberg or A L Webber and others of similar ilk to be "asses" is incalculable and supremely irrelevant.

There are those whose musicality comprises sublimely magnificent works resonating down through the ages and of genuine musics chronicling people's experience and endeavour rooted in some sort of tradition. And then there are those whose musical horizons rise no higher than piles of "asses" shit.

I know which I'd choose to discuss music with, whether on a virtual forum supposedly devoted to aspects of the former or in real life.


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 07:17 PM

Digressing for a moment, surely "middle of the road" should be MOTR. If "the" is considered to be too insignificant to bother with, then why include the even shorter "of" –why not just use MR.

It's no wonder I get confused. Proper English is much more understandable.


DC


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 08:26 PM

From the Scotsman, today's news:

--
... "And yesterday Ms Boyle's singing teacher revealed that she was a serial talent show failure who had previously auditioned without success in the late 1990s for My Kind of People and abandoned the auditions for The X Factor when she realised people were being chosen for their looks. Fred O'Neil said that Ms Boyle's audition for Britain's Got Talent was her final throw of the dice.

He said: "I remember a phone call late last year when she said she was too old and that it was a young person's game."

Mr O'Neil urged her to reconsider and attend the auditions in Glasgow."


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 08:40 PM

Diane Easby, then why in the hell don't you start your own thread and lay off this one which you obviously hate? Do you think that your continuous ranting is going to change anyone's mind about you?


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 09:15 PM

And in my perambulations through the halls of a couple of music schools, I've met a few narrow-minded musical snobs like Diane Easby, who, when they learned that my main interest was folk music, rolled their eyes not unlike the judges and some of the audience members on BHT before Ms. Boyle began to sing. "When," they would ask me, "are you going to give up these trashy hillbilly songs and take a serious interest in music?"

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Acme
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:01 AM

Okay.

Let's take this to the next level.

Susan won the first round, hands down. Now what is she going to sing next? Here's another thread for helpful suggestions for Susan.

Maybe she's very very lucky and someone has turned her onto Mudcat. One of our UKers. So here's your chance--what would you like to hear her sing?

SRS


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Subject: RE: Caledonian Karaoke Queens
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:24 AM


Added later per request from Diane. -Joe Offer-

. . . change anyone's mind about you?

Oh, very telling. I'm not the one singing crap on trashy telly talent shows and this thread's not about me. Besides, not one contributor to this thread even knows me and has, thus, no right to an opinion about me in the first place, even if this were an appropriate place to voice it.

What I am looking askance at is why this inconsequential, off-topic froth is even mentioned on this forum. Imagine a newcomer with an interest in trad and roots looks in? They'd quite rightly be off like a shot to seek a forum that stuck to its remit.

At the weekend I was at the Folkworks string event alongside people entering their ninth decade (Tom Paley) and under-10 learners at workshops on the Karnatic violin of South India, Klezmer, Romanian, Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Scandi as well as English styles. Each participant was passionate about the worth of their music and eager to learn from world-renowned tutors and from each other.

That's my sort of music and it's what this forum should be highlighting. Not the dregs of reality television.

    I think maybe it's a good idea to continue the discussion on the next thread.
    -Joe Offer-


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