What should Susan Boyle sing next?

Subject: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 12:58 AM

For those who have happily discussed and speculated about the phenomenal voice and stage presence of Susan Boyle, I think we need to move forward.

What should Susan sing next time?
(I will admit: I think she could ditch this contest and move forward from here, but she may want to follow it through to the end for a lot of good and well-considered reasons).

I've given this some thought and spent some interesting time chasing down songs on YouTube. She can do the big show tunes. She can give the audience what-for. So how about one made famous by Gertrude Lawrence--"The Saga of Jenny" from Lady in the Dark, music by Kurt Weill, lyrics by Ira Gershwin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iQ2vjPCQkY

Or how about something from Gypsy? "Everything's Coming Up Roses" has a lot higher center of emotional gravity, so to speak, than her first appearance on Britain's Got Talent, and it's a song sung by an older woman, so it wouldn't be out of place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1znyr0QQGE&feature=related.

"Send in the clowns" is another one for an older singer. Do you think Sondheim would do for Susan? Here's another Ruthie Henshall performance, showing how a singer can belt it out. I found several versions where it is almost spoken by some singers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyscZQmRc6w&feature=related. This one might be too subtle for the Britain's Got Talent group, though. Ironic, but subtle.

She could sing "All That Jazz," but the visuals might be tough to pull off. It would require a costume that did the work of distracting the eye. Lots of beads, perhaps. What's interesting is that for all that Susan said she'd like to be successful like Elaine Paige, I am finding more songs from Ruthie Henshall (who I've never heard of before) that are more musically like what I think Susan can sing. Poor photo quality, from the Today Show on NBC in the States.

But another one that is meant for an older character and I think Susan would do a lovely job with is "Memory" from Cats. I love how Betty Buckley (a Fort Worth, Texas, talent) belted this out. She created the American Grizabella on Broadway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJRFr3Fs7s. (I remember cracking up Spaw with an offhand remark about Betty Lynn on an Art Thieme thread a while back.) I think this is the one Susan should do. This one is not such good sound, but it is the stage performance in costume. I don't think Susan should try this at home or anyplace else. It's a really tough role, very physically demanding. But I think she would do a marvelous version of the song.

No apologies for suggesting show tunes. They are big songs, they highlight big voices, they're a pleasure to sing and to listen to. Purists need not (and please don't!) comment.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:07 AM

'Stormy Weather'. Controlled power w/plenty of emotional impact w/room to improvise and make it her own. "Somwhere Over The Rainbow' would be a crowd pleaser, but cliched.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:22 AM

I remember thinking that Eva Cassidy had a kind of strange trajectory in her career. She died way too young, but why wasn't she in the big time before she died? She had a great voice also. (She was also quite young and beautiful--so apparently even those attributes aren't enough, sometimes). Her version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is breathtaking, if you haven't heard it. You're correct, I think Susan could do a lush version of it.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Neil D
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:04 AM

"La Vie En Rose"

A completely different type of song necessitating the use of an entirely different vocal style would demonstrate range, both musically and emotively.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:16 AM

At the risk of 'thread drift' and bombast, Eva Cassidy was/is probably the single best all-around singer of the 20th century. Have friends in DC who knew her and have said she wasn't interested in becoming 'a star' as there were SO many compromises the 'big boys' wanted her to make. She simply wasn't willing to 'play ball'. She knew she was good, not in cocky self-perpetuating way, but wasn't going to be told what and where to sing. She was very much her own woman. That's why she was never a major label act. Be thankful to Chris Biondi's foresight in giving her access to his studio carte blanche and free of charge. Otherwise we wouldn't have the documentation of her other worldly giftings. Physically, she was unimposing, attractive enough, but not a head turner, as they say. A little on the chunky side by showbiz standards, but when she opened her mouth...the whole room would come to a standstill.

Susan Boyle possesses many of the same attributes, but hasn't demonstrated the breadth of chops Eva had...yet. Most great singers have 2/3 elements of the 5/6 across the board. Eva had them all...seemimgly w/o effort.

Susan Boyle's performance will go down as one of the greats in TV history as she turned and entire world on it's head in 15 seconds...quite remarkable. We're ALL Susan Boyle at some level which is why she touched such a universal nerve. But if one listens closely one can hear slight pitch struggles w/t low notes in the song...probably because she couldn't hear herself over the applause. The performance wasn't flawless, but it's the first time I've been moved to tears since the opening strains of 'Field's Of Gold' on Eva Cassidy's 'Songbird' CD. Wept through that CD in much the same way I wept through Susan Boyle's performance.

Beauty and purity of spirit personified.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: breezy
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:38 AM

Lets just wait and see shall we.

Maybe she doesn't need this programme as much as it needs her!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:54 AM

The sensible thing would be to give up right now. Always leave wanting more - as you all obviously are - drooling on the fringes of another media frenzy as another life-less-ordinary is withered under the scrutiny of the media spotlights. I just hope there'll be someone round to pick up the pieces of the real Susan Boyle when the celebrity circus moves onto the next hapless victim.

And it's not about the voice at all - it's all about the image. Without that no one would be bothered in the slightest.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:01 AM

she should sing something by Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden, or maybe Journey.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:08 AM

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie - PM
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM

'But Piers Plowman's reply to my example -- "Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman." -- makes my point. Piers said "Oh, I thought Bea Arthur was a very attractive and impressive-looking woman. "
She was (maybe still is), but Bea in her 40s or 50s would not have been cast as a romantic lead opposite a man of the same age who was considered a sex symbol comparable to Sophia Loren, while the movie industry thinks nothing of pairing Jack Nicholson with beautiful 30-something women.    That double standard is alive and well.'

Just for the record, I wasn't arguing with the point you were making, which I think is manifestly true. I've just always liked Bea Arthur's appearance (it occurred to me later that "striking" would have been a better description) and I think she was a fine actress whose TV vehicles didn't do justice to her.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: scouse
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:09 AM

I completely agree with your sentiment Breezy. She's more than the sum of all the shows parts.I shall sit and wait. Someone as special as Susan needs to have someone really knowing the showbiz ropes to guide her. Her voice should not be for some other persons profit!!
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:17 AM

I love the singing of Eva Cassidy who could perform wonderful interpretations of jazz, blues, folk, gospel, country and pop classics without any problems (sometimes cringe making) of 'crossover'
It was probably this inability to be put into any single recording genre and her reluctance to limit herself to any single style that hindered the important recording deal

enjoy and thanks for the memory jeff a 'thread drift' well worth it

Personally, I think Susan Boyle should stick to what she obviously does best, there is a large enough audience for that style of singing and a wealth of material to deaw upon.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:18 AM

In a riposte to "Scotland's got no talent", she should gie it laldy wi' one o' oor Muckle Sangs!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:27 AM

The most interesting thing about these talent contests is that the initial songs are chosen by the artist.X Factor and probably from now on with this talent show, someone else chooses the song and from what I have seen and heard, get it completely wrong. It can be make or break for an artist.If the wrong song is chosen Susan could rapidly lose all her fame overnight,never matching up to the original performance.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: caitlin rua
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:46 AM

Disagree totally with Sinister Supporter. That voice represents solid hard-core talent, the kind you can't fake. An image - whether it's bimbo or underdog-made-good - without talent will fade like the yesterday's-news that it is. But her artistic gift does have staying power on its own.   

Of course looks matter a lot in showbiz. But she doesn't have to go that route these days. Certainly the huge TV exposure and all the hype kick-started her and got our attention: without it we'd never have heard of her, nor would the bigtime US critics and journos . But Susan can opt out of the glitzy thing if she wants to and simply sing, and we will always be able to just listen. With the internet and streaming and individual downloads and all the other ways there are to access music, she has some choices now, and so do we. There's finally some room at the table for outsiders, specialist interests and general asymmetrical pegs who can bypass all the conformist round holes.

Not long ago she'd have had to submit herself to the grinding jaws of the all-powerful Star Machine, but no longer. I wouldn't start writing her epitaph (do I detect a note of gleeful cynicism?) just yet.


PS: I'd like to hear her sing Sunrise Sunset from Fiddler On The Roof, and It's Her Or Me (a.k.a. Now That I've Seen Her) from Miss Saigon. Also Sandy Denny's severely under-rated Ecoute Ecoute - the title of which is highly appropriate. So is the line "(s)he is of value now they say".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:55 AM

That voice represents solid hard-core talent, the kind you can't fake.

I disagree; it is a faked voice of the type we're hearing too far much of these days. If it wasn't for the special-needs chic, no one would have batted an eyelid.

do I detect a note of gleeful cynicism?

No note of gleeful cynicism, just utter & abject despair for the impeding fate of poor Susan Boyle and the ghoulish hype to which the whole country (and much of Mudcat) has fallen victim to. I'm not writing her epitaph - the journalists will have written that on the first day of the Boyle circus.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: caitlin rua
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:20 AM

Vocal equipment is something you're born with, or not. You cannot fake a good singing voice (I know a number of people who would love to, and would if they could). The sound she makes is the sound she makes, and if it's not there in the vocal cords no amount of post-production can put it there. But I do take your point about all the window-dressing. "Special-needs chic" is a nice turn of phrase, and I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately.

But with the variety of alternative forms of listening available now, I really think she can rise above all that and go her own way and still keep an audience interested. Maybe not the kind of audience that fills commercial arenas, but an audience just the same, comprised of individuals all over the world tuning in to her at every hour of the night and day. And I'm sure if you were able to bring them together in one spot and one time they would fill a stadium. Or more.

I really do think it ain't over for her, and doesn't ever necessarily have to be. Though - for the reasons you have given - this does require being perceptive, also making intelligent and realistic choices. I hope she - or anyone genuinely acting on her behalf - will.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 12:57 PM

Maybe Gershwin's "Someone To Watch Over Me", because with all the hype and exploitation of the media possible, it's appropriate. It would be a good one for her voice. I'd listen to her no matter what she looks like or what her circumstances.... I enjoy all kinds of singing voices, she was born with an instrument I enjoy.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: breezy
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:00 PM

sinister supporter talking out of arsenal end of the stand.

you no nuffinck mate

dont give up any job to be a critic

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:03 PM

Nothing faked about Susan's voice. We each have a larynx we are born with. How we use it makes the voice what it can be, but you can't make a tuba out of a high D whistle... we are born with the size and shape of cords we have, the tone and range. Ditto what caitlin rua wrote.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:30 PM

Those low notes aren't easy to hit, and in the versions I compared it to I didn't hear any of the singers lean on those notes. They pushed down to them as well as they could, glad, I suspect, to be done with them.

I started this thread to ask about what people thought she should sing next. Maybe Sinister and Diane would like to start their own nay-sayer thread somewhere else and leave the rest of us to enjoy our speculation.

Yeah, I know, dream on. They get too much pleasure out of being negative, of delivering the thumb to the eye.

We've looked at musicals, but the Big Band songs are also a wealth of possibility. Some of the ones that Doris Day, Ella Fitzgerald, and others used to sing would work. Especially after hearing the tones she worked over in "Cry Me A River."

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:33 PM

Old Russian proverb: "Is no should. Is only is."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:40 PM

Lowlands away my John
76 trombones
I am sure sooner or later she will do Amazing Grace. Probably quite well.
Scotia's greatest hits..Loch Lomand, Road to the Isles etc.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:58 PM

Stardust

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:17 PM

I know this is just for fun, but at the risk of being a little serious, I hope she sings....

                Whatshewantsta

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:22 PM

Good one Kendall!. If we rephrase the question to say 'What would you like to hear', I think she could do a cracking 'Rose of Allandale'.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:22 PM

Old Maid in the Garret :-)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:23 PM

Sentimental Journey

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:27 PM

"I'm Gonna Pick Poor Robin Clean"

"The Death Of Queen Jane"

"Waltzing With Bears"

"Cocaine"

"Panama Limited"

"Boyle Them Cabbage Down"

(>Art Thieme<)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:34 PM

Oh, and also:

"The Internationale"

and "That's The Ticket" (by me!)

Art

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:40 PM

I think "Memory," from Cats would be a very good one for Susan. I know there are people out there who don't like the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber, but for every one, I think you'll find several hundred who do. No matter how you slice it, he has written some really fine, evocative songs.

Just because some songs are well-liked by a lot of people doesn't mean they aren't, by all musical and esthetic standards, good songs. The idea that simply because many people like them is proof that they are "schlock" is nothing more than elitist snobbism and reveals a sad ignorance of the musical and poetic qualities that make for a good song.

Here's another rendition of "Memory" sung by Elaine Paige, the singer Susan wants to be as famous as. I think Susan could do this very well indeed. And with a little attention to detail, even better than Elaine Paige.

"Memory."

However—I think Susan probably already has a good idea of what she's going to do next. I'll trust her judgment.

Don Firth

P. S. May the cynics and nay-sayers simmer in their own bile. They are, as the old song says, "more to be pitied than censured."

Subject: What should Susan Boyle sing? - Memory (Cats)
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:51 PM

Maggie, it's interesting that you suggested Grizabella's song "Memory" for Susan and then referenced Betty Buckley's version.   The first version version of that song I ever saw/heard (from the actual musical) was that of Susan's ideal, Elaine Paige.   

Grizabella (Elaine Paige) sings "Memory"
Elaine Paige as Grizabella: "Memory" (reprise)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:00 PM

Don, you must have been posting while I was in process of formatting my like-minded post. (It took me a while to sort through the YouTubes to find the best videos of Elaine Paige as Grizabella.)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:04 PM

I compared the two, Buckley and Paige, and thought Buckley had more power in her version, so I defaulted to the American version because I liked it better. Paige is good, but doesn't have the passion in the song that Betty does.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM

Right, Genie. Great minds tend to think in similar channels. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:24 PM

So true, Art. ; )

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:34 PM

Paige isn't bad, though. . .

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:39 PM

With the blues chops she hinted at on "Cry Me a River," how about "Can't Help Lovin' That Man of Mine" from _Showboat_? Oh, and of course "Summertime."

Charles

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST, Cy Nick
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:10 PM

How about she steers clear of everything suggested here ... she needs votes from normal people to win.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:35 PM

Elaine Paige has, of course, become very aware of Susan Boyle, and there is a word going around that the two of them may record some songs together.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:52 PM

Oops. Don, I called you "Art."   Sorry.
(Well, maybe you are, but that's not your name.) ; )

G


As for whether Paige's or Buckley's "Memory" is better, I think it's just two different interpretations of the same role. Paige's "Grizabella" seems softer and more vulnerable, and her rendition of Grizabella's theme song reflects that.   I kind of prefer that, but it doesn't make that one "better."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:55 PM

Maybe Susan and Elaine could record that duet "Loathing" from "Wicked."   I think they'd sound great!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:56 PM

"Ae fond kiss"?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:03 PM

Maybe she could pick a Celine Dion song or something like that, that has been a pop hit within the past 20 years.   She could probably do some great sea chanteys, but I don't know how much market there is for that (especially on BGT).

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:12 PM

oh please Greg let that stay one of my favourite songs

Ae Fond Kiss

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:44 PM

Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Istanbul, Not Constaniople
I'm Just a Girl Who Can't Sa... nah, bad idea
Joni's 'Clouds'

Let me think some more. (I think Ae Fond Kiss would probably sound good.)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:45 PM

Sorry, Emma. Just a little flight of fancy. I'll revert to being sensible, how about "Donald Where's Yer Troosers?"

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:49 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:04 PM

Do you suppose Susan has a sense of humor?

Just an idea. . .

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:39 PM

What A Wonderful World

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:49 PM

"The Internationale".

I see Art has already suggested it.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:49 PM

There is only one choice for her next song, ( assuming we are talking about winning the competition ), and that is "Memory" as suggested by SRS and seconded by others.

I would love to hear her do "Words" by the Bee-Gees, or even "To Love Somebody".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:53 PM

Here at the house I've been comparing washers, getting ready to replace a dead one. You can select machines from the list and print out sheets with comparisons down the line of all sorts of features, everything from the weight, the energy use, the type of tub, RPMs, the number of settings, water temperature, and more. Too bad there isn't a comparable system to use to evaluate the number of features of some of these songs. :) Vocal range, skill level (difficulty), speed, emotional temperature such as drama and pathos, popularity, etc.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:09 PM

In opera, arias are written for voice types that also relate to the role, so there is a definite classification of voice type/matched to song. A spinto tenor, for example, has a quality that can be bright like a lyric tenor, but also have a dramatic weight to it.

What I don't like about the song Memory is that there are a lot of low notes in it that don't ring out, and I'd like to hear her voice with a song that would use the strongest part of her range, really show what it can do.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:13 PM

On SRS's note, a slight aside. . . .

When I was singing in the massive Seattle Center Hootenannies in 1963 (crowds of up to 15,000), the fellow who was setting up the programs and deciding who sang what and in which order had the following coordinates: Up, Down, In, Out.

"Up" was peppy and up-tempo. "Down" was slow, perhaps sad. "In" was a song he figured the crowd would recognize (recently recorded by some pop-folk group). And "Out" was one they probably wouldn't be familiar with and he often wouldn't approve. He wanted us to do mostly "Up" and "In" songs.

One of the singers, Jerry Murry, said he wanted to do a "Down" and "Out" song. The guy looked at Jerry balefully and asked, "Oh, yeah? What song?"

Jerry answered, "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?"

The guy busted up and said "Okay."

Okay, back to our regular broadcast. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:20 PM

LOL

that was funny, Don.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Pistachio
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:44 PM

I'm with Frog Prince. Let her sing another favourite of hers, one she is familiar with.
It's a huge task to 'name the song', whatever is chosen will be loved by some loathed by others. I'm sure Susan and her voice will deliver and I wish her Good luck.
To be honest I'm more worried about what will be done to her, what a 'stylist' will get her to wear. Lets hope they keep it simple and classic.
H.x

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:45 PM

I second a lot of these already, especially "Someone to Watch Over Me" and other Gershwin tunes. Also I think a lot of the old standards would work.......Embraceable You, The Shadow of Your Smile, Misty, When Sonny Gets Blue, September Song, But Not For Me, etc.

Give her a shot at Rose's Turn as well.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:53 PM

First Time Ever I Saw Your Face?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:36 PM

I think she should sing what she wants to, but it's fun to imagine what her voice would sound like on different songs. My suggestions were pretty lame, but I just don't know the genre. Spawn knows way more show tunes than I do, and I like his suggestions. I'd like to hear her sing 'Memory' too, but I don't know that her voice, clear and pretty as it is, has the power for that one. (I don't know that it doesn't, either.)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:39 PM

My Funny Valentine

If I Loved You (words wouldn't come in an easy way)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:47 PM

I REALLY think she'd be great singing a song I've always loved Nina Simone singing.

"The Other Woman"

Art

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:52 PM

Just thought of another good Gershwin standard,

The Man I Love

Someday he'll come along, The man I love
And he'll be big and strong, The man I love
And when he comes my way
I'll do my best to make him stay

He'll look at me and smile, I'll understand
Then in a little while, He'll take my hand
And though it seems absurd
I know we both won't say a word......

I think she could spin that one out the way she did Cry Me A River.

All Of Me

have we already said Summertime ???

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:53 PM

ah, just thought of one I'd REALLY like to hear her sing.....

The Last Rose Of Summer

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:00 PM

Fly Me To The Moon

Don't Get Around Much Any More

and.....

NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:11 PM

Achy Breaky Heart

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:16 PM

You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To

'Til There Was You

Many A New Day

Let Me Entertain You

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:48 PM

"Achy Breaky Heart"...Little Hawk... go away; or do you want to suggest "Who Let the Dogs Out" next...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:54 PM

(re: the Gypsy song, I was thinking of the shimmy Susan did)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:08 PM

It's a huge task to 'name the song', whatever is chosen will be loved by some loathed by others.

Of course--this is a fanciful exercise. But I like those suggestions of the older classics. Gershwin, Weill (did anyone listen to "The Saga of Jenny"--very "up" in a perverse sort of way on Don's briefly sketched system. And that was a funny story, Don! I was out in that audience a few times, I'm happy to say. Mainly with eyes for only a couple of performers known to me. You, Dad, Stan, Pete Seeger. . . )

Name some more torch songs. What did Dietrich or Garbo or whoever of that ilk sing in their old movies with songs and the Euro song tradition in composers and lyrics (the brain drain before and during WWII)?

What about an animatedly angry song, like "I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair" from South Pacific or "Just You Wait" from My Fair Lady.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:13 PM

Ah! My Fair Lady! "I Could Have Danced All Night." Exuberant, and should show off her singing voice pretty well.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:16 PM

. . . and then, of course, there's "Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins, just you wait!!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:49 PM

Cry Me a River is considered a torch song.. I like her rendition. I already mentioned Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.

More would be:

As Time Goes By

What'll I Do?

Somewhere Beyond The Sea

The Man That Got Away (from A Star Is Born)

Smile

Smile though your heart is aching
Smile even though its breaking
When there are clouds in the sky, youll get by
If you smile through your fear and sorrow
Smile and maybe tomorrow
You'll see the sun come shining through for you

I'll Be Seeing You

In The Still Of The Night

It Had To Be You

Nevertheless (maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong)

Without You
(I can't forget this evening and your face when you were leaving, Harry Nilsson)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:58 PM

We'll have to send her a list of songs to put on her first few CDs. :)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:59 PM

(What was I thinkin' of. "Just You Wait." Maggie just said that!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:05 PM

Sheesh...there's a lot of what's-the-next-emotional-high baggage loaded in some of these songs...how about we forget she's never been kissed, etc., forget the progression to the next my-man song, and she does something like Let A Smile Be Your Umbrella or Always on the Sunnyside?**bg** Or, Singing in the Rain? Or something from the Unsinkable Molly Brown.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:09 PM

LOL

Kat! Emotional baggage is what Torch songs are all about!

I guess 'cause I like how well she did Cry Me A River, I think that ilk would do well for her.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:11 PM

I think the only way she can get away with a show tune is if it is one of the real high-fliers. It just happens that angst and emotion work. It wouldn't make sense for her to sing a song from Annie, would it? A child-like story. (Though she could do one from Oliver--that has some really beautiful ones, as I recall.)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:16 PM

I thought I'd posted one from Oliver, a song Nancy sings,

As Long As He Needs Me

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:24 PM

I remember reading that title. Couldn't remember what it was from at the time.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:30 PM

"Over The Rainbow" - which, BTW, is the actual title of the song - would be a good choice IF she can bring her own interpretation of the song. Preferably without totally losing the original melody, as Eva Cassidy (haunting as her rendition was) did.   

Maybe "Stormy Weather?"

Or could she handle something like the Heart song "Alone" or Carole King's "Natural Woman?"

Other things being equal, the audiences on these shows seem to be more drawn to up-tempo belted-out songs than to slow, soft ballads.

Genie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:34 PM

On the contrary, I think Tomorrow from Annie would be quite fun for her to do and significant vis a vis her apparent life-up-til-now.:-)

I thought CMAR was better than the other song she did, so I get the angst, etc. and I think she'd obviously be good at them...I just thought, oh, well...I can't see her doing My Blue Heaven, though!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:40 PM

I don't watch American Idol, but a couple years ago I did happen to catch seeing a contestant, Melinda Doolittle, (who I thought should have won in 2007) sing My Funny Valentine, and I thought she was just great. She also sang As Long As He Needs Me. Now, there was a talent that should have gone to the top, but a "prettier face" and weaker singer won instead.

Melinda Doolittle, As Long As He Needs Me

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:45 PM

"Tomorrow" is usually kind of belted out - at least parts of it are. That'd work.

She could also do something like "You'll Never Walk Alone" or "Climb Every Mountain."


But I really do think she could also pull off some non-musical theatre type, more rhythm and blues or Motown songs. Or power versions of pop songs, e.g.:

Bridge Over Troubled Water
RESPECT
Ain't No Mountain High Enough
Because You Loved Me
Alfie
Unchained Melody
Blue Bayou

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:46 PM

Nadia Turner also did an awesome job on that same song in AI's Season 4. It's a good choice.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:53 PM

Fry Me A Liver,
Fry me a liver,
I fried a liver for you.

Art

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:00 AM

with fava beans and a nice Chianti?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:23 AM

Ah, we're back to the LOL cats captions, eh, Alice? *g*

BTW, the song I was referring to in my last post was "As Long As He Needs Me" from "Oliver."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:29 AM

No One Is Alone is from Into The Woods. It's a great one for Susan's voice. Here is Bernadette Peters with No One Is Alone.

Off topic, but my favorite part of Into The Woods is the duet "Agony".
"Agony" - Into The Woods

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:44 AM

Then from Sweeney Todd, there is

Green Finch and Linnet Bird

Green finch and linnet bird
Nightingale, blackbird
How is it you sing?

How can you jubilate
Sitting in cages
Never taking wing?

Outside the sky waits
Beckoning, beckoning
Just beyond the bars
click for video

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 10:31 AM

Now that I've been listening to some of these other songs, I have "Memory" stuck in my head. I wonder if this is a harbinger of Susan's next song choice? But someone mentioned a ways up that "Amazing Grace" would also be a good one. It would--very simple, but when sung well, sends shivers up my spine. (Leontyne Price sang my favorite version, I think it was a televised performance and I haven't found it since.)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:51 PM

I have seen the travelling Broadway production of CATS and was pleasantly surprised, but I have to say IF she sings Memory I think I shall vomit! It has been so overdone...I would welcome her singing something completely new and unheard!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:59 PM

I agree forget about what Sinister Supporter said it's not the image that matters it's the voice, who cares what the singer looks like or sings like just as long as they are good singers who cares what they look like I mean you don't buy a cd just because the singer looks good

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:09 PM

More from the theater genre,

Some Enchanted Evening

Getting To Know You

Hello Young Lovers

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:10 PM

"I mean you don't buy a cd just because the singer looks good "

I'm afraid that a lot of people do just that - that's what Taylor Swift has based her career on.

Cute - but she can't sing. IMO.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: caitlin rua
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:26 PM

Well, CD's are going the way of the horse and carriage. Photos are for looking at. Voices are for listening to. More ways than ever to do that now. A lot of it free, too.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:50 PM

Oh, My GOSH!

Susan Boyle will do Whistle Down The Wind next
and sang an unaccompanied recording in her home!!!

Listen/watch here
WHISTLE DOWN THE WIND

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:47 PM

NPR's Talk of the Nation is discussing What Kind of Makeover she may need to be a pro-performer which was her stated goal. Interesting.

Talk of the Nation, April 21, 2009 · Scottish villager Susan Boyle wowed judges during Britain's Got Talent auditions, in spite of her plain appearance. She's now considered the favorite to win the reality show, but her fashion does not receive the enthusiastic raves used to describe her singing voice.

Washington Post fashion editor Robin Givhan writes that though it may not be PC, Boyle should complete her Cinderella story with the help of a makeover. Givhan's not calling for an extreme makeover. "The point of a proper makeover," she writes, "is not to look like someone else but the best version of yourself."

Folks are calling in with their opinions.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:54 PM

Where is that video from? I don't watch the various news channels, so I don't know who that newscaster or interviewer is. CNN?

Tell us about Whistle Down the Wind. I find some info at Wikipedia.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 03:11 PM

Where can I sign up for one of these makeovers?
I wanna be 40.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 03:25 PM

100

Would she be a folk singer if she sang "100 bottles of beer on the wall"?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

WHISTLE DOWN THE WIND

she sang it on MSNBC, for newscaster Monica Novotny

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 04:27 PM

Regarding a makeover, I honestly don't think she should have much done, at least not right now. I don't think she has the best voice, although it's very good. She does have a plainness that's quite charming, both in her clear, clean singing and her unassuming appearance. I don't think she's unattractive though. I think she has a country-girl sort of beauty that partially comes from the joy she takes in singing--she GLOWS when she sings.

They can help her out a little, but I hope they keep in mind that people like her, not in spite of her looks, but because of them.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 08:08 PM

Well, maybe she could do "Dance 10, Looks 3" from "Chorus Line?"   
But only if they subject her to some sort of "extreme makeover" -- which I don't think she'd agree to.

(Would they let any contestant sing that song, 'unsanitized', on BGT anyway?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 09:55 PM

This dress is meant to conceal a lot even though it is rather fitted. You can see the model is of "normal" proportions, not a spaghetti strand.

This is even better. A gown and jacket with beads for sparkle.

Simple, better lines than the dress last time.

Or really surprise folks.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:39 AM

Here are a couple of refresher links:

The original Susan Boyle performance

and her

Cry Me a River.

(For reference, here are Ella, Julie London, and Barbra Streisand singing "Cry Me a River.")

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: oldhippie
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:51 AM

All the traditional songs from her region that she has probably singing around the house for years; that would make a great 2 or 3 CD set.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:11 AM

Kat, the remarks on that NPR program are all over the board. Some who dismiss the topic outright, others who have a more practical approach:

Collette Mak (LibraryGirl) wrote:

I'll admit that I found this a strange topic for TOTN but, okay, it IS something people are talking about. My two cents--Ms. Boyle has an amazing voice and she sat a lot of people on their heels when that voice came out of an unasumming package. That's part of her charm but that won't take her where she wants to go--the surprise is over. A make over to give her look that works well on TV and stage is a sensible suggestion. You can bet the judges pay attention to wardrobe, makeup and hair when they perform. It's not a different standard for her, it's the same standard.

and

Regina Brunig (Parinama) wrote:

Your discussion of Susan Boyle misses the point: The world fell in love with her, not inspite of her looks, but because of them. The magic came from a mixture of the unexpected power of her voice with the generous spirit of her delivery in the face of a unanimously unkind reception from the audience. I hope she stays as frumpy, natural and open-hearted as she appeared in that first song.

and

Chris Kar (weecamlass) wrote:

The important thing here, to me, is not whether she needs a makeover. Why has she become so popular? It's partly because of her talent, but it's mostly because we are all thrilled to see a "regular" person succeed - without the "handlers" or the makeover. People are crying out for more authenticity, less judgment, less conformity. We are tired of how much our world judges us (especially women) on our appearances above all else. She succeeded not in spite of how she looks but because of it - because she is just like the rest of us, and there's nothing wrong with celebrating that. And when she succeeded, we all did.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:29 AM

Something Wonderful   (The King and I)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 02:24 PM

Demo recording of Susan Boyle's, from 10 years ago:

Susan Boyle sings "Killing Me Softly"

I think she could do any number of songs that Streisand, Midler, etc., have done. Not sure going back to musicals from the '40s and '50s is such a great idea, unless the songs have become standards that even kids today would recognize and/or she puts a whole new twist on them.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 02:49 PM

I think she should do When You Say Nothing At All, and dedicate it to Miss Easeby, Sinister Supporter, Jack Campin and greg stephens.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:00 PM

I'd perfer this woman didn't touch anything by Carole King...

I think she should do When You Say Nothing At All, and dedicate it to Miss Easeby (sic), Sinister Supporter, Jack Campin and greg stephens and Murray Macleod

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM

Wow
Thanks for that link to Killing Me Softly!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:05 PM

The trick is to find something that allows her to display her vocal range with a song that is popularly recognized as a very beautiful piece. Sounds simple, doesn't it?

Interesting how these other songs she recorded are turning up. Clearly she has been trying for a career for a while, but it was getting the attention that was the tough part. There may be a few producers kicking themselves by now.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:17 PM

I read an article today about a friend from the village who had a copy of the demo tape and had been told by Susan that she had spent all her savings to have it made to try to be a professional singer. The friend remembered the tape when Susan appeared on BGT, so now the recordings have come out. Only a few copies were made. The article said 2 songs were recorded. I don't know if the other one was Cry Me A River, which ended up as a donation to the Charity CD, or if there is yet another song from that old demo tape.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:40 AM

dedicate it to Miss Easeby, Sinister Supporter, Jack Campin and greg stephens.

Apart from anything else I was first attracted to Folk Music because it seemed to represent something genuinely human, away from the marketing, hype, bollocks & lies of mainstream so-called culture & the utter ghastliness of its music. As a tender 14-year-old I was very impressed that I could sit in the dirty back-room of a pub watching an unamplified, unaccompanied singer giving her all before an audience of 15 people who'd never heard of her either but were nevertheless moved to buy copy of her LP Airs & Graces, as indeed was I. My feelings on the purity of Folk Music notwithstanding, the ghastliness of the other thing remains very much intact - as does the marketing, hype, bollocks & lies of mainstream so-called culture as evidenced by the hype-fest over poor Susan Boyle that has somehow spilled over into these threads.

What should she sing next? Maybe she should try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WvYa1rH2ns

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 05:12 AM

I am really surprised at how much score-settling this thread has generated (and the previous, now locked, one). It reminds me, a little bit, of how much hysteria there was after the death of Diana Spencer in 1997 and how difficult it was for some to voice a view contrary to the prevailing social mood. No comparison here, of course, just an example.

In relation to old hippie's suggestion that she should sing "All the traditional songs from her region that she has probably singing around the house for years; that would make a great 2 or 3 CD set", I can only ask: why do you think she knows any, or would even be interested in singing them? Because someone comes from a non-urban background doesn't mean that they're immersed in the culture of the region.

In a current mag feature on Scots singer Eddi Reader (now renowned for her wonderful interpretations of the songs of Robert Burns) she notes that she was brought up in a working-class city community, the only music in the house was that of the radio, trad music did not figure at all, or make any impact on her style or taste. She developed her interests and skills in later years. Just being Scots didn't make her know her cultural roots, or even be interested in them.

Maybe it's the same for Ms Boyle? Are we starting to turn her into something / someone we want her to be rather than what she is, and wants to be herself? Is this any different from commenting on her appearance?

Flame away!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 09:50 AM

NormanD, I frankly wonder at why you think this remark would be controversial? If you read through the suggestions people are coming up with they are all over the place, but are suggested because of the scant evidence we have of the vocal range and possible repertoire of the singer in question. So far her performances fall within popular culture--but perhaps these are what she put forward, thinking those were her best bet to get into professional performing? No one has disputed or suggested that where she is from automatically makes her a singer of Burns songs or of a certain category of Child Ballad. It would be lovely if she does sing them or show interest, but we simply don't know. If you read that in, I think you saw wishful thinking.

We're all just guessing. As the opportunities arise, we will learn more.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 10:33 AM

Interesting comments about Susan Boyle singing songs of Scotland... I would bet she sings songs of all kinds from many sources. By the way, her family is Irish, Catholic, even though living in Scotland, and as much as other types of music, she sings hymns, as on her frequent visits to Knock. There is plenty of info now about her from interviews with her voice teacher, her neighbors, the parish priest... anyone can find the interviews with a web search.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM

I hope some links to those interviews will be posted here, when people come across them.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:22 AM

her parish priest, on Susan Boyle

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:55 AM

Interview with her voice teacher, the Independent does not allow a link to the article,

so just Google:

The Independent Don't Lose the tune, warns man who taught Susan Boyle to sing


-- snip

But he has reservations about the TV talent show route to fame: "Sometimes I feel it is so sensationalist. I feel they sometimes are not allowing the more intelligent Susan to come forward. I look at the names people are calling her and I think this is worse than what she is leaving behind. This is not respecting someone, saying they have a voice like an angel and then calling them names," he said.

"Susan is a woman you can sit down with and have a very intelligent conversation. She is one person with whom I can say about my own act 'do you think that song should be dropped?' or 'is that working?' She is one person whose judgement you can really trust."

He said the much-reported mild brain damage she sustained during birth barely affected her daily life.

"She is being portrayed as being lucky but she is someone who is not just a talented woman but she has a real intelligence. She may have had the problem when she was born but it does not affect her 99 per cent of the time.

--snip

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:28 PM

New York Times article is interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/d2js7o That Independent link seems okay. I stuck it in Tinyurl, though, because it is kind of long.

I hope her friends and family are able to provide support and buffer her from the insanity out there. She sounds like a lovely woman.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 01:26 PM

Just by chance there is an interesting interview of comedian Carol Leifer whom I knew nothing about before this interview. She has just written a book called If you lie about your age, the terrorists win. May or may not have some relevance in this instance.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 01:33 PM

One that keeps coming to mind is I Don't Know How To Love Him from JC-Superstar

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 01:43 PM

Very good article in the New York Times, Maggie. That about says it, I think. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get the other URL to work.

As to the nay-sayers and the cynics, I feel as Virgil did when speaking to Dante about the inhabitants of the lowest level of Hell who, because of their aloofness and lack of humanity, had more than earned their dismal fate:   "Let us think no more about them, but look once and pass on."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 07:06 PM

Don--here's the entire thing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/dont-lose-the-tune-warns-man-who-taught-susan-boyle-to-sing-1671687.html

Good quote.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 07:21 PM

How about if she did some of those killer Helen Reddy songs like:

"You and Me Against the World"

or

"I Am Woman"

I have not had the (Cough) joy of hearing a spirited rendition of either one of those gems in, well, some time now, and I can't help but wonder why? I mean, who would not want to subject themselves to such stirring stuff? Who, I ask you?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:16 PM

DUETS! She could do one with Mick Jagger. "I Can't Get No(SATISFACTION)..."

But seriously Amigos, there's little point in regurgitating what's been done before...Unless you want to appeal to a small market segment...

If she really wants to be a singer, get an agent and start searching for great NEW songs from
the world's best writers...I'm sure that with the right team she could put together a killer album...poetic, charming and memorable.

Granted she would pretty much HAVE to do the song from Les Miserables & Cry Me A River, and a "tip of the hat" to the folks back home with a Classic Scottish/Irish/U.K piece, eg. "Wild Mountain Thyme"(hope I spelled it right),
but it would be cool to have a few surprises on there too.

Be a crying shame to kill the momentum she has going for here now. But Simon Cowell isn't an idiot, I'm sure they are working on something as we speak.

Hang in there Susan, they don't call it show BUSINESS for nothing...

bob

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:19 PM

Make that, for HER now.....TYPO, yeesh...BR

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:32 PM

Thanks, Maggie! Good article. And her teacher sounds like a good man. I hope he's able to protect her from the more predatory types. But from what he says, and from what she said about taking it all "in baby steps," I get the impression that she has a pretty good grasp of the nature of things. Let's hope. . . .

####

Actually, considering all of the many good possibilities, and also considering the fact that she has probably already decided on what she wants to sing, I wouldn't presume to try to tell her what she should sing. But a few months back, on the Classic Arts Showcase channel, I heard tenor Finbar Wright (who appeared on the "Three Irish Tenors" telecast on PBS) sing THIS.

But probably not before a screaming audience. It starts out gently, it's very lyrical, and it has a good dynamic range that would let Susan's voice really soar. I think that she could do a fine job of this, and I would love to hear her sing it sometime. Words by ??, music by Fredrick Chopin (Etude, Opus 10, No. 3, "Tristesse").

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:46 PM

When I watched her singing Whistle Down The Wind, I kept thinking of ...

For she's a fine, big, strong, lump of an agricultural Irish girl, She wears no paint nor powder, and her figure is all her own

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 10:40 PM

This thread was started as a speculation, but I think it is equally a wish list--songs we'd like to hear how she handles them. Heck, she's only 48, she has time.

Don, this isn't the first Chopin to make it to song form. Prelude #20 in C minor became "Could it be Magic?" in Barry Manilow's hands.

SRS (who as she types hears strains of Villa Lobos etude #11 coming from the next room)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 10:46 PM

So, I was wondering....WHEN will Susan Boyle sing next? Is there some kind of competition in this "Britain's Got Talent" think, or is it a one-shot, sink-or-swim proposition? We see the "Dancing With the Stars" dancers every week. When are we going to see Susan performa another song, perhaps without the interruptions of the first performance?

-Joe, still not convinced she's more than a really good karaoke singer-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:24 PM

Hi Kids: Got to thinking what Joe was saying in the previous post. I think Susan Boyle is a good singer. But what made that performance was the CONTRAST, sadly, between her looks and the voice that went along with it.

The point I was trying to make before was that she needs to be nurtured. If whoever guides her career from now on can meld the look, personality, and singing ability into a complete package, she will be around for a long time. If not, I think she will return to obscurity in 2 years.

She is NOT Celine Dion. And with all due respect, Celine is a great singer with a voice that can cover a variety of songs. And she can do the Vegas thing. But there were times when even SHE did a bit of overkill...Listen to Jennifer Rush doing "The Power of Love"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr0xJBsVbZY
Now when you hear Celine's version, you could say "great job", but Jennifer CAPTURED "something" in that song that Celine missed. And to these ears, Jennifer has the edge on that song...And where is she now? (And sure, 25 years is a long time)...

Wishing Susan much success...
bob

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:43 PM

Jennifer Rush & Celine Dion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXChmr_Y1d8
BR

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 12:00 AM

Yeah, that Jennifer Rush vocal is really something, all right.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 12:22 AM

Joe,

I heard the date, but I don't remember. Early May, and it looks like it is on Saturday, so I'm guessing May 2 or 9.

Here are some links with various bits of information, and the first video, for reference.

Original YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY
(as of late April 23, 2009, 41,895,287 views)
Don't you love it how the jaws drop?

For comparison, here is Ruthie Henshall singing, with words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHBkhw9DRqc Another story.

Amanda Holden on CBS (she hears "Cry Me a River"), plus info about the 12-year-old from last week. If you look back at the original video, the exchange, when Susan realizes Amanda's second vote gets her to the next round, there is a lovely nod of affirmation that goes a long way to making the judge panel look humane.

In early May is Susan's next performance on the program Britain's Got Talent.

Neighbor interviewed
Neighbor has given Susan friendly kiss story.

Missed revenue stream on YouTube (spat between YouTube folks and ITV)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:38 AM

Bob Ryskiewicz, I take exception to your remark about Jennifer Rush, "where is she now ?".

Jennifer Rush is one of the biggest draws on the European concert scene, she has a new album coming out this year, she is singing as well as ever, and she is still as drop-dead gorgeous as she was 25 years ago.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 09:46 AM

Elaine Paige talks to Larry King about Susan Boyle

(there is a very short ad that plays first, then it goes to the Paige video)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 10:19 AM

Interesting to finally hear from Elaine Paige. It must be difficult to have lots of interviewers asking speculative questions--hoping for an answer that will end up locking them into a commitment (a concert, a tour, whatever). It is such early days yet. And I wonder--because she idolizes Paige, even if they sounded a bit alike, wouldn't more contrast in voices go further for a good concert? Otherwise it will simply be for comparison. I would think a pairing along the lines of Carol Burnett and Beverly Sills or Burnett and Julie Andrews--where they were different enough that they weren't being compared.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 10:57 AM

Murray: World view, World view. She's near invisible in North America...Airplay? T.V.? Commercials? DA BIG TIME!? Great to hear that she's still going strong in Europe. She's a great talent...Love her...bob

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:09 PM

Interview with the man who put Cry Me A River on the charity CD.

He says he unfortunately threw away her original audition tape long ago.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 11:40 PM

I talked with Betty Buckley's mother this evening. She and a friend (a retired broadcast journalist in this market) had both seen Susan on YouTube and loved her performance. I pointed out to Betty, Sr., that many of her daughter's recordings were probably getting a lot more airtime this last couple of weeks because so many people were looking for other recordings of songs, and enjoying the comparisons. It will be interesting to see if anyone reports a blip upward in sales in this category of women vocalists/show tunes.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 11:43 PM

Video from when Susan was 25 singing in the pub, I Don't Know How To Love Him.
http://www.casttv.com/susan-boyle/susan-boyle-jesus-christ-superstar/3y85vc

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 12:38 AM

Someone had to do some digging to find that--and from the days of huge clunky recorders and no extra lights.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 09:14 AM

It says it was a family gathering, so probably a relative had a video camera for the occasion.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 09:49 AM

The "Don't Know How To" video is interesting. She already sang far, far, better than I ever have or ever will. But I wonder if this represents anything like her best at that age; I've known "unknown" 15 year old girls who were more impressive than that. My tentative take would be that she didn't happen to be anything like an exceptional child prodigy, but between training and experience she has really developed well. All of which is probably just irrelevant blather; I'm with those who consider her to be a joy and a wonder.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 10:49 AM

Alice: Interesting to have had the opportunity to see that video...Thanks...bob

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:45 PM

It's no surprise that some kind of "make-over" was going to happen to Susan. Though apparently Cowell isn't happy (I don't know why--I think she looks good), Susan has darkened and styled her hair, and it looks like she may have new glasses. Or the eyebrows were also brought into line and the glasses look better. Modest changes, all.

Here is a link to the CBS Early Show article and photo. This is the kind of change one would expect--not to go out on a limb with color or style, but to simply stay in line with what her color was before she started to turn gray, and to give her an up-to-date cut. It's the least she, and we, can expect! (If I were she I wouldn't wear those big fat beads any more, either.)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:03 PM

She's an amazing singer.
I think a good song would be "A Case Of You" by Joni Mitchell.
Best of luck to her in the next round of the show. If I had the money
right now, I'd bet a lot of it for her to win the contest.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 01:14 AM

Amazing Grace sung on stage by Betty Buckley. Very jazzy. It's a possibility.

I found a site called KeepVid (http://keepvid.com/) that lets you download mp4 files, and my mp3 player has conversion software to save to the player. I've captured the Susan Boyle songs and have gone prowling around YouTube for others to save. What a wealth of songs!

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Clontarf83
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 02:34 AM

Flower of Scotland

I wish I had someone to love me

If you knew Suzie....

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 03:50 AM

Mr. Wu's a Window Cleaner Now.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 09:45 PM

Another old recording has surfaced.

This is from 1984. Susan looks so young in this.

From a singing local singing contest, the audio is very bad quality, but here it is:
The Way We Were

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 May 09 - 05:13 AM

"Mr. Wu's a Window Cleaner Now."

Great song choice!
With banjo??

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 01 May 09 - 05:59 AM

Ukulele! (Cheeky grin is optional!)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 09 - 08:20 AM

"Ukulele!"
Oh, naturally! Do excuse the aesthetic faux pass.

Of course there are several more wonderful songs that posters here have for some mysterious reason passed over:

Performed in honour of the king
A favourite of the older generation
Or something a bit more jolly!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 May 09 - 08:31 AM

Oops, was me below... :-)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 01 May 09 - 09:25 AM

Well, it was a banjo ukulele to be precise: a cross breed of the American banjo and the Hawaiian ukulele!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:04 AM

Banjos definitely belong someplace else! Move along! Move along!

That latest video of Susan is very hard to hear--it's nice that a few of them are around, but wouldn't it be nice of a few good-quality audition tapes turned up. People are clearly craving more of her performances, for as much as they're scouring their old video tapes looking for a few frames of Susan.

On an interestingly related note, today I heard an ad on the classical music FM station for a couple of concerts here in the next few weeks by Paul Potts. He is a good example of how the music can win over the looks--I've seen him on Oprah since all of this Susan Boyle audition happened, and while his front tooth has been fixed, his clothes are better and his hair is a little longer, he's still the kind of round little fellow from Wales who is out there enjoying himself singing, like he said he always wanted to do. I think this is the least that Susan can also hope for.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:15 AM

I guess what I fear is that this woman will be in the lime light for a spell and then the public will get tired or her.

I am hoping she is sensible enough to enjoy this time, make good use of opportunities and be graceful and unflappable when the media frenzy starts to wane away.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:32 AM

She loves singing, she has wanted to be a professional singer, she is hoping she can be a professional singer.
Yes, be careful what you wish for, and yes, the industry can exploit people, but I think she is probably satisfied that she has finally had the chance to do what she hoped for.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:35 AM

The heated frenzy part will no doubt die down, but she might very well have a nice little career without headlines.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 May 09 - 12:00 AM

The Chopin prelude cited did not in fact become a Manilow song--it was just used as an intro to one of his wonderful creations. I always did think it was a ridiculous travesty-but a perfect juxtaposition of high culture and stupid bathos--I assume it's clear which is which.

I also was not exactly impressed by "Piano-Bloke's" rendition. I'm virtually certain he muffed at least one chord and I would disagree with some other aspects of his interpretation .   I play this piece every day as part of a short memorized portion of practice.

Now back to topic: Susan Boyle has real talent--and had impressive self-assurance vocally even 25 years ago.   I sure hope she is not forced to sing more of the overdone tripe it appears she has been captured on video singing. She could do justice to any number of songs--"Someone To Watch Over Me", as has been suggested by several posters, would be particularly fitting--and poignant.

And I wish she had resisted all attempts to "improve" her appearance.   She could have thumbed her nose at the whole idea of pushing appearance as part of the singer's package--and still probably won the contest. Then she could wear a new dress for the queen.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 May 09 - 12:17 AM

As a poster has already linked, check out 10-year-old Hollie. Amazingly enough, Susan may have stiff competition from her.   The voice coming out of that little girl is not to be believed. Obviously what happens in the next rounds may change things drastically.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 09 - 01:52 AM

The Chopin prelude cited did not in fact become a Manilow song--it was just used as an intro to one of his wonderful creations.

I haven't listened to that song in a very long time, but I played the Chopin often enough as a kid that the Manilow song sounded to me like a variation on it--as scant as the tune was, it was part of the song also.

I heard the performance of the little girl, but it wasn't compelling. I watched it once and that was that. Susan's story and performance is simply so much more compelling.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 May 09 - 10:50 AM

It's true Susan's story is far more compelling.   And on that basis she might well win if it seems she and the little girl are even in talent.   Similar to the Oscar being awarded for sentimental reasons.

But an objective observer, it seems to me, would have to be stunned that voice came out of that little girl.   I certainly was--and was not alone.


Obviously, as I noted, a lot will hinge on the next round.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 May 09 - 10:54 AM

And no way was that Manilow creation even remotely close to the Chopin in any part of the Manilow's "tune".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 09 - 01:38 PM

I think we'll need another opinion on that, because I'm certain it is and your "Un-Hunh" doesn't trump my "Uh-Huh."

Does someone at Mudcat know Manilow? Ask him for us, please. ;-)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 May 09 - 05:03 PM

I would like to hear her sing a duet with Jamie Pugh - who was on tonight's show. Hear him here, singing "Bring Him Home":

Jamie Pugh

- jeanie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 02 May 09 - 09:53 PM

you beat me to it, Jeanie,
I was going to add a link a few hours ago, just came back to see if Jamie Pugh had been added.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 09 - 09:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1KHRf02ups

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 09 - 10:09 AM

first interview, Jamie Pugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVX01vVG2VI

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 09 - 10:13 AM

better link where the Audio is in sync with the Video
and is not cut off at the end like previous link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m2gNzTWauw

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 May 09 - 11:09 AM

Looks like we need a collective "Britain's Got Talent" thread with all of these other entries. I don't see the program, obviously, being in the U.S., I see the clips people provide. You'll have to decide which ones are good and make a list of them. (Spare us the rejects, if they post those to YouTube also!)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 May 09 - 07:16 PM

Sorry, SRS, but it's unconstitutional--cruel and unusual punishment--to ask anybody to listen voluntarily to that Manilow creation again.   It was ubiquitous enough at the time that it graced the charts that I and lots of others had plenty of chances to note the absurdity of putting in the Chopin, which had no connection or similarity whatsoever to what came later-- as an intro to a trite and overblown--i.e. typical Manilow--offering.

In fact I'm amazed you seem to have lashed yourself to the mast of that singularly unseaworthy vessel.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 May 09 - 11:49 PM

I played that Chopin piece many times over the years. The melody is there, it isn't just big ponderous chords to be pounded out on the piano. I'm not a huge Manilow fan, but I recognize a theme and variation when I hear it.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:26 AM

" theme and variation"?   Anything you say. Look it's patently absurd that we're still badgering this incredibly specious line of reasoning. Sorry, the Chopin has exactly nothing to do with the Manilow, except that for some reason Manilow appears to have wanted to give his piece of pop fluff some hoped-for gravity by starting his creation with the Chopin.

I've played enough Bach, Mozart etc.--and listened to enough music-- to recognize a theme and variation.   And as a musical Lloyd Bentsen might say: "I know theme and variation.   Theme and variation is a friend of mine. And, Mr. Manilow, what you have created here is no theme and variation."


Now can we return to the actual topic?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:34 AM

And obviously there is a melody to the Chopin. Nobody but your good self ever raised the possibility there was not--though the version of the Chopin linked to in this thread seems to favor the thudding chord interpretation.   Chopin was a master of melody, though this piece is obviously not his best. Manilow, on the other hand, is not a master of anything--except bathos and sales.   And even in sales, Chopin probably has him beat--though at this point he probably is not benefiting personally from this.

Now it really should be time to return to the topic.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 04 May 09 - 08:04 AM

This Susan Boyle thing has got completely out of hand....ok so she has a good voice, but it's not like she came on the show sounding like the next Maria Callas or something. Go to any Northern working mens club any night of the week and you'll find chubby plainish lasses providing the entertainment who don't fit the showbiz looks mould, but who have a cracking voice. Nothing new there!

I don't read the tabloids but I noticed one of their headlines screaming out the other day how Susan was 'close to the edge' ie. a nervous breakdown? I do hope this isnt true, I wish the woman all the best but please people, get a perspective on it.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 May 09 - 10:35 AM

All comparisons are odious. Whether Susan Boyle and all of these other names suggested, or Ron Davies and his rant about Chopin and Manilow.

I suppose it is the nature of modern discourse to listen to each newcomer on Britain's Got Talent and wonder how the next wonder will sound when set up to compete with Susan.

Personally, I think we're dealing with an order of magnitude question here. I think Susan would have had this reaction even if she'd come on after the little girl in the tutu or the too-shy-to-be-believed Welshman who is (surprise surprise) singing a song from Les Mis. Each has a level of talent. I think Susan's was well-formed and she has practiced and continued to sing over the years, despite the bushel basket hiding her light. So to speak. She was a professional-wanna-be who hasn't been given a chance until now. Whether she wins, or there is a sudden sympathy vote for the 12-year-old who switched to a Michael Jackson song or one of the others, Susan has arrived. She has been heard, her ship has sailed and she is on it.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Catamariner
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:11 PM

I agree with SRS, and have been haunted by Saga of Jenny since I heard it on a radio show last summer; tracked it down on YouTube and Google and learned it (the only way to exorcise that kind of haunting). I think she would love that song, and it's a stunner. While I agree that Stormy Weather (and Memory and Over The Rainbow) would be "Ins" more than Jenny (which tells a delicious and blackly humorous story and allows both bounce and a wee bit of vamping, which Susan would love :-), what about "Cry Me A River" rather than Stormy Weather? Less covered, and she can grab them at the first six notes, and impress the audience with her phrasing at the "You drove me/Remember" section. Admittedly, the emotional tone can be slightly vindictive (a matter of artistic interpretation?). I've always loved the emotional texture of "I'll be Seeing You," but there are not as many opportunities to dazzle in that song; still, it's a lovely tearjerker for the audience members who "get" the context. For sheer beauty, I have always loved, "O Mio Babbino Caro," she's a mezzo but she has the range for that. Every mezzo does Habanera, so probably not that.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 09 - 09:09 PM

"All comparisons are odious".   Oh, joy. There's no such thing as quality in music, and we must not judge that one is better than another. No difference between Chopin and Manilow. And Mozart and Neil Diamond, I suppose.

Sorry, SRS, you can regale us til the cows come home, if you choose to, with the wonderful finery the emperor is wearing.   But he's still naked.

There is a difference, and a comparison can be made between the Chopin which has at least some musical merit, and the Manilow which, shall we say, has less--and no connection to the Chopin musically except in a young listener's vivid imagination.   I trust you're not as young now.

And it's not just my prejudice against Manilow. I even actually like one of his hits--Copacabana. I've been a big fan of pop opera for quite a while--as long as it's over in about 3 minutes. "Leader of the Pack" and "Dead Man's Curve" are two well done pop operas. Copacabana fits solidly in that tradition and works well. It probably helped that Manilow did not write it by himself.

If your expectations are low musically, you can appreciate a lot of pop--but I'm under no illusion that any of Manilow can hold its own musically with Chopin, even a modest Chopin like the one cited.   Nor can it hold its own with most other pop, Copacabana being the only exception.

Your candidate to illustrate how a classical piece "became" a pop piece in the hands of pop singer is just not the best choice. The irony of course is that your general point is completely valid. If you had said that a part of the Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook "became" "Lover's Concerto", as sung by the "Toys", your position would be much stronger. However, citing "Magic" as a pop realization of Chopin is way off target.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 09 - 09:37 PM

Well, in the interest of musical fidelity, I made the supreme sacrifice and actually spent about 7 minutes of my life listening to that wonderful Manilow creation--all the way through. (At least, thanks to You-Tube, I didn't have to buy it.) I hope you appreciate what I have suffered.

What Manilow has done is taken one riff from the Chopin, and, in the best pop tradition, hammered it into the ground ad nauseam. I can see why a young listener might think it was a variation on the Chopin. I would hope an older listener would realize the difference between what he has done and a theme and variations approach.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 09 - 09:45 PM

And now perhaps we can all get back to the subject.

I would dearly love to hear that 10-year old with the amazing voice sing something else. I do think she could give Susan a run for her money.

But I would imagine the "story" will carry Susan all the way unless she stumbles badly. None of the other contenders are likely to be judged as so superior to Susan that they deserve first prize more. And if it's close, she wins.

After all, it's not as if the 10-year -old won't have plenty of chances ahead. As has been noted, this is Susan's moment--in large part because of her story.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 09 - 12:04 AM

Ron, I'm not even going to read your last three posts. The quote is Samuel Johnson, go pick a fight with him. Go talk about all of that other stuff someplace else. Go fight someplace else.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 09 - 12:44 AM

Okay, I apologize. You made the ultimate sacrifice to listen to Manilow. Youth/age, I don't think that is an issue. But now back to Susan Boyle, please.

"Memory." I think that is the one that is going to get her the biggest bang for her buck. That program will be watched (and voted on?) by millions. Charismatic may be called for, and a lower common denominator. She can work on the rest of the stuff once she is done with the program.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Murphy
Date: 05 May 09 - 08:19 AM

"I dreamed a dream" was musically inspired by the intermettzo from Cavalleria Rusticana. Mascagni's "Ave Maria" which is basically the intermettzo with words would be a perfect choice for Susan.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 May 09 - 09:33 PM

You may be right about "Memory". But, if so, that says something rather dismal about the voters, who, I suppose, may well be the great (young) unwashed. As they are on this side of the Pond for American Idol. I would hope they would have broadened their taste beyond a would-be classic which which somehow has instead gone straight to the hackneyed stage--and whether it can ever bounce back from that appears questionable.

And the Johnson quote has remarkably little resonance--especially since he ignored it himself--as do all rational beings.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 May 09 - 09:34 PM

"classic which somehow"

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 09 - 11:44 PM

I haven't watched the video for a while, to give it a break, and find, when I return this evening, that Susan Boyle is still head and shoulders above any other act I've heard on that program, and in many comparisons, is easily as good as the high-profile women who are singing comparable songs.

Oprah had a young man from Quebec on her program today, a big setup, he has worked hard, rented theaters, etc., so his U.S. "premiere" was today, but he simply didn't have the chops, voice-wise, to hold my interest. Susan's is a story that will be hard to top for a long time to come, I think.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 09 - 09:15 PM

"...Susan Boyle is still head and shoulders above...."   Somehow, that's not surprising, considering the source.

At this point she would not get my vote--but don't worry, I won't even try to "vote" on this. And I trust I'm in the minority, a familiar position in matters of this kind.

However, I don't want to encourage even the possibility of yet more versions of the same relentlessly low-brow tripe--(I of course prefer high-brow tripe). "The Way We Were", "I Don't Know How To Love Him", that gem from "Les Miz", and possibly "Memory" now on the horizon all fit snugly into the category of tired retreads.

I would hope and pray that this stuff is not her actual taste--but at this point it doesn't look good on that front.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:03 AM

"considering the source." Just what is your problem? There's nothing wrong with this source!

I suspect she'll have to take a broad, lowest common denominator pat to win that prize. For all that "Memory" is a popular and rather schmaltzy song at this point, I really respect some of the singers who have performed it. Low hanging fruit, know what I mean? This is a calculated effort, to win the hearts of the folks entitled to vote.

I'd love to hear her do jazz, and more of the blues, based on that performance of "Cry Me A River." So far that is really her best performance (of the few we have to go by). Kurt Weill, Bernstein, Sondheim, and a lot of other more sophisticated songs await.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 09 - 10:30 PM

Temper, temper.   I imagine that if you think about it you will realize that nobody is in the least surprised to hear that you think she is still the cat's miaow. That's what I meant. You might want to adjust that chip on your shoulder--not every criticism is a personal attack.

However if you like aphorisms, perhaps you'd like to try "To thine own self be true", (which at least the author tried to live by--in contrast to the Johnson quote). And if that, to her, means singing "Memories", for this occasion, then there's a real good reason she and I part company. Specifically, the reason I cited in my last posting.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:27 PM

Ron Davies, why are you hanging around on this thread if you don't apparently like this performer, or her music choices, or at least you aren't really interested in the opinions of the people here? What is your point? I think it is "understood" by the adults here that in order to get her out of that sausage-maker of Simon Cowell's "Britain's Got Talent" (even if it doesn't have good grammar--it should be "Britain Has Talent") she needs to toe the line. Perform the big, over the top, WOW-them-all song. Then she can go on to the good stuff.

She is good. Her story is compelling. It's a package deal. Maybe it's a "chick" thing. But go away if you're going to dismiss the enthusiasm with which Ms. Boyle has been received.

Thank you.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 May 09 - 10:51 PM

The originator of a thread has to realize that a thread is like a child who moves away from home--you have very little control.   A thread is of course much worse, since after your first posting you have absolutely no control.   Even over people who disagree with your entire premise--which indeed I don't.   I think Susan has a very good chance, for reasons I've noted earlier.

As for why the thread topic has drifted, from time to time;
1) Welcome to the real world,    and
2) Who, pray tell, brought Barry Manilow into the thread in the first place?


And the thread originator might want to develop a bit thicker skin, rather than taking offense when I noted that her continued assertion that Susan is the best thing since sliced bread is not exactly unexpected.

After all, I didn't say that somebody who evidently still thinks the Manilow's "Magic" was a variation on the Chopin might not be the best person to judge quality in music.   Or point out that Manilow, who was one of the top jingle writers, responsible for "I'm stuck on Band-Aid, cause Band-Aid's stuck on me" and other similar contributions to US cultural life, knew exactly what he was doing, in order to hit his target audience. So he dumbed down the Chopin to their level--not exactly theme and variation.

Nothing wrong with repetition--after all it's the basis of rock. Songs like "Satisfaction" have their fair share. But "Satisfaction" has a lot more going for it than the insistent beat. If anybody listened to the verses, it is a perfect satire on commercialism. Rather than the overblown emotional twaddle of the typical Manilow offering--"Magic", to pick a purely theoretical example.

I also didn't point out that somebody who evidently endorses: "All comparisons are odious" had no problem herself with a comparison earlier in the thread: "Paige is good but doesn't have the passion in the song that Betty does."

So you see, it could have been worse.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 09 - 11:03 AM

Ron, take your philosophy of the world and the sorry-ass soap box you're trumpeting it from and go away. You're the one hijacking the thread, yet you stand there like butter wouldn't melt in your mouth saying 'get used to the real world.'

Those of us in the "real world" were rather enjoying this thread and all of it's permutations and possiblitiies before you came along, but guess what, now it isn't a thread about Susan Boyle, now it's a thread about Ron Davies. Was this your goal? Jump in the game, steal the ball, then stand in the middle of the court holding it out of reach, with everyone focused on you now? Does your ego need that much stroking?

We all know threads morph and change. And we also see spoil sports and recognize them for what they are. You aren't really here to discuss the topic, you're here to change it over to an argument and a discussion about you. You're trolling. This how you get your kicks.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 09 - 05:28 PM

Winfrey to interview singer Susan Boyle
link

LONDON, May 8 (UPI) -- Oprah Winfrey is to interview Scottish singing sensation Susan Boyle via satellite for her U.S. chat show.

Boyle, a 48-year-old church volunteer who has been described as dowdy-looking, made headlines when she appeared on "Britain's Got Talent" last month and wowed the crowd with a stunning vocal performance. The clip of her rendition of "I Dreamed a Dream," complete with the audience's and judges' initial dubious facial expressions, then enthusiastic applause and praise, has gotten tens of millions of hits on the Internet.

The Daily Telegraph said as many as 10 million viewers are expected to watch Boyle be interviewed for a special edition of The Oprah Winfrey Show called "The World's Got Talent," featuring acts from some of the 40 countries that broadcast versions of the popular talent competition.

Boyle will not be heard singing on "Oprah," however, the Telegraph said.

Judge Simon Cowell and his fellow producers on "Talent" have instructed Boyle not to perform, saying she should save her voice for the "Talent" semi-finals. They also are understood to be trying to prevent Boyle from gaining an unfair advantage over her fellow "Talent" contestants, the newspaper said.

-------------

Right--she has been singing for years, but now she should "save her voice." I suspect Cowell has this contest barely under control this time around.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 10 May 09 - 01:32 PM

Has this been said yet?

I suspect that the song she sings next will be one that Cowell has a financial interest in promoting, and will no doubt choose for her to sing. In the same way that "Hallelujah" was 'chosen' as the finale song for the last national tv talent show he was involved in. Various versions, including Buckley's cover and even Cohen's original, became chart hits - it was all money in Cowell's pocket, for publishing rights.

Ms Boyle's voice is only as good as its ability to make money. Aesthetics hardly enter into any of this. She is latest cog in the Cowell money-making machine.

She has to "save her voice"? Oh, right. This means that Cowell & co have not been able to cut a deal with O. Winfrey's people over television / video / YouTube royalties.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 09 - 01:17 AM

If you believe that Ron is trolling, then the correct procedure is to ignore him.

Ron,
You may have discovered the ultimate truth in your assessment of Chopin v Manilow, but you have made your point. There's no need to keep re-stating it.


Be nice to each other!


DC

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 09 - 01:18 AM

The whole thing is about manipulation. To think otherwise is being totally naive.

I'll leave this thread well alone now, the same as most others have. SRS, I wonder why you have such an obsession? An answer is not required, though a moment's self-reflection might be helpful to you.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 11 May 09 - 01:32 AM

Apologies - the last post above, "Guest", was from me - the cookie had vanished. I didn't wnt the post to be seen as an anonymous one.
Norman

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 May 09 - 01:39 AM

- and the "Guest" post above that was from me.

SRS & Ron,
If you want to continue the fight then why not take it to P.M.?

DC

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Van
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:26 AM

Perhaps something by the Razorheads - Black socks get you laid - maybe. Just being rude about her appearance and her lack of experience in a certain area. Totally unbefiting of a catter so I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 09 - 04:02 PM

I sent a PM to one of the clones asking to have the messages that did all of the arguing from Ron removed and many of the negative remarks after that. I don't know if the cleanup will happen--though an assault on a perfectly good thread is offensive enough, it doesn't necessarily constitute personal attack, which is what is normally deleted. However, because of the nature of this thread it is likely that a lot of non-Mudcatters will be reading this material, as a follow-up to their very natural interest in Susan Boyle. To find a music site that discusses it is a good thing.

I wish the argumentative posts will go away. If not, I hope that anyone who is just coming to this thread will ignore the nonsense that occurred below. If you are here to talk about the subject of the thread, please contribute. If you're a guest, give yourself a name and use it each time you post or your message will be deleted.

Susan will be interviewed on the Oprah program today.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:41 PM

Oprah is on right now, with Simon Cowell as a guest talking with Oprah about the "it" factor that winners of these contests possess, but our local Dallas affiliate has decided to break away from the program in order to play a low and high speed police chase. I'm sure Susan will most likely be the last guest, so maybe they'll catch the burglary suspect before that episode. Otherwise, they replay the program on a sister station later this evening.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:02 PM

Didn't see her--so either she was on first (I forgot to turn on the program for a few minutes) or she was on during the extended time when they were away with the police chase. I don't know if any bits of Oprah can be shown on YouTube, to share it with viewers on the other side of the pond if she does turn up on the program.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:07 PM

I have absolutely no doubt that Simon Cowell's highly paid publicist will keep this kettle boiling as long as it can be milked - if you will excuse the mixed metaphor.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 09 - 11:59 PM

I was out mowing the yard and missed the beginning of the program when it replayed. So if Susan was interviewed, it was in the first few minutes. C'est la vie.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 May 09 - 02:37 AM

Open the mag to about page seven to see what Susan is really like.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 May 09 - 05:45 AM

Very amusing, Georgiansilver - though it's about as genuine as the BGT clip that started the whole Boyle circus...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 May 09 - 09:10 AM

'Simon Cowell appears on "The Oprah WInfrey Show" (WFSB, Channel 30, 4 p.m.), with glimpses at performers in his worldwide talent searches, cheif among them Susan Boyle in Scotland, who is most recently being used to hype the upcoming season of "America's Got Talent." '

TV Eye - what's on television
May 11th

Although Simon Cowell was a guest Susan Boyle did not appear in person but via a link - with subtitles!

A representative of Britain's Got Talent said

"None of the acts are allowed to go (overseas) for any events until the show is over"

She was also allegedly invited to attend the prestigious White House Correspondent's Dinner in Washington on Saturday night but none of the acts on the show are able to attend events until after the contest has ended as part of their contract with Britain's Got Talent.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 10:40 AM

Georgian, that is not only an unpleasant web site, it's the kind that is probably a source for computer viruses. You shouldn't be visiting those or your computer might come down with a disease.

Still harping on the "genuine" talent of Ms. Boyle, Sinister? That's why you post with your own name, then, right? To give a genuine conversation?

Thanks for the blurb about the program, Emma. I suppose if she wasn't going to perform then they decided not to keep her to the last thing in the program. Subtitles? Really? They think the Scots accent is too much for American ears? I found a description of her segment at the Oprah web site. They have organized the site so you don't do much scrolling. Click through the next couple of pages from this page and you'll find more about the interview with Susan.

On the second page

Susan, the youngest of nine, says she started singing when she was 12 years old. Music, she says, helped her cope with a learning disability. "I was kind of a slow learner at school, so getting something like singing was a good way of hiding behind that and so boosting my confidence."

Susan says her biggest supporter was her mom, who died in 2007. "After that, there was a wee period where I didn't sing," she says.

To help cope with the loss, Susan says she auditioned for Britain's Got Talent. "I am very slowly getting over it," she says. "One of the reasons I applied for the TV show was to try to see if I could perform in front of an audience."

It was the performance of Susan's life—and everything changed overnight. Paparazzi now camp outside of the home she's lived in for 48 years, and her mailbox is filling up with fan mail—with a few letters for her cat, Pebbles, mixed in.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 May 09 - 10:57 AM

That's why you post with your own name, then, right? To give a genuine conversation?

Is Stilly River Sage your real name then? Whatever, it's very beautiful. Please note, I've just changed my mudcat handle again.

Otherwise, I don't doubt the genuine talent of Ms Boyle, I just fear for the impact of this noxious media circus upon the life of one such as she. Already the cracks are showing...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Homage to a grandfather I never met.

The Golden Goose syndrome will/should/ought to kick in for anyone who is a talent scout, especially someone like Cowell. Protecting a contestant versus protecting an investment is moot if the system (devouring paparazzi, over-zealous fans, etc.) overwhelms the woman with the voice. One would expect that Susan is getting a crash course in media relations.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 12 May 09 - 12:36 PM

I fear also for those who have become so obsessed with her that any criticism or contradiction is treated with anger and vulgar language.

"Stilly, etc" - this whole correspondence says more about you than it does about Ms Boyle.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 May 09 - 01:04 PM

Well . . . let's put it this way:

When a number of people express happiness at someone else's good fortune, or eventual recognition of their talent, I'm really amazed, and not just a bit disgusted, at the number of people who seem to feel it necessary to come crawling out from under the carpet, rush into the party, and pee in the punch bowl. Strikes me that there may be a touch of jealousy and spite involved.

The fact is that Ms. Boyle has an excellent singing voice, it's obvious that she enjoys singing, and she seems to be a very nice person. I, for one, am quite happy to see that her genuine talent is being recognized.

And this is a whole separate issue from the ethics of those who may—or may not—be trying to exploit her.

Get a grip, folks!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 May 09 - 01:07 PM

Cowell's wretched programme BGT encourages the audience to mimic the stylized, and many would claim rehearsed, mockery of the judges to some contestents and then turns the cameras on them.


Norman D wrote - 'I fear also for those who have become so obsessed with her that any criticism or contradiction is treated with anger'

From a news report at the end of April

'A SCOTS teenager has become the unwitting victim of a global hate campaign ... for making faces at internet singing star Susan Boyle.

She was seen rolling her eyes when the singer told Britiain's Got Talent judges her ambition was to be as successful as West End star Elaine Paige.

A clip of the audition at the SECC, watched almost 100m times on YouTube, has provoked dozens of abusive and threatening posts against the teenager, nicknamed the 1:24 girl because she appears just under one and a half minutes into the footage.

One reads: "Talk about never judging a book by it's cover. Anybody else feel like punching the chick at 1:24 in the face?"

Another calls for her to be "named and shamed", while one fan of the Scots singer threatens to set up a "hate club".

Friends of the teenager have accused the show's producers of unfairly singling her out in the editing of Boyle's performance in front of 3000 people.......

A friend of the teenager said: "She is extremely upset about this hate campaign. Everyone in the venue was in exactly the same boat, booing Susan and heckling her before she had even begun to sing." '

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 03:10 PM

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD - PM
Date: 12 May 09 - 12:36 PM

I fear also for those who have become so obsessed with her that any criticism or contradiction is treated with anger and vulgar language.

"Stilly, etc" - this whole correspondence says more about you than it does about Ms Boyle.

NormanD, I don't know you from a hole in the wall. You never participate on any other threads where I am active, so you are in no position to make such sweeping statements about someone totally unknown to you who has been following this newly discovered performer with pleasure. Some of us find this contest procedure to be slow-moving after the original broadcast, and we'd like to get our hands on a more well-rounded selection of her work, to see just what she is capable of. What about this offends you? We've speculated at the songs she might do well, and we've discussed the generally shallow nature of the audience voters (that lowest common denominator can be relied upon--there's a saying about never going broke by underestimating the American public--the same might be true here).

Have you read through this thread uncritically and consumed all of the the arguments as if they had equal weight, even when they smacked of trolling by others? If you can't sort out the players and the tone of their discussion, then no wonder you've reached this conclusion. However, your conclusion couldn't be more incorrect. I think the problem here is the "tone of voice" in your head and the spin with which you approached the topic. If we protest the wet blankets who want to rain on this parade, even telling them to get lost, go start their own thread, that makes us pathetic? No, I don't think so.

Emma, I have wondered about the women who were captured in the audience when segment was edited. The kid with the mascara probably got the worst of it, and the one when she mentioned Elaine Paige comes in second. In those glimpses their uncharitable attitudes were etched in stone, digitally speaking. There is another woman, near the end, who is happy and crying. But did she also sneer early on? It wasn't captured if she did. The point is, these micro expressions were frozen in time at that point in the film, yet when you see the audience swiftly respond to Susan, clearly all them them were swept along and one presumes that these women received that same "wake up call" that Amanda spoke of. They probably cheered just as loudly as the rest. It would be a shame if this happy discovery of a wonderful singer ends up with a few audience members being victimized for something many of them did.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 May 09 - 03:19 PM

Unbelievable and very scary. A witch-hunt because of bizarre hysterics over a few justifiably natural raised eyebrows.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 May 09 - 04:22 PM

". . . a few justifiably natural raised eyebrows."

Because some folks thought because Ms. Boyle is "funny looking," she should be treated with contempt?

Unfortunately, this does seem to be a human trait. One of the less admirable ones.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 12 May 09 - 04:25 PM

SRS - or whatever pseuodonym you wish to hide behind - you never seem to participate in any of the threads that I'm active in, so perhaps that makes us even. I know you as much as I know Ms Boyle. That is, not at all. Which is about the same as you know Ms Boyle. You have your opinions, and I have mine.

I merely make an observation that your loyal following of a tv talent show competition winner (one round so far) is quite an obsessive one. I'm not especially concerned at what lies behind this - that's a matter for you to consider when you next look in the mirror. I just find it all quite strange.

You seem to have had quite a few run-ins with "detractors" - R. Davies here, and D. Easby on the other closed-down thread. As noted above, there is quite a lot of anger being displayed here. If you want to address some at me, then that's up to you. I'd prefer you didn't, but if it makes you feel better, then enjoy yourself!

My whole aim in joining this discussion in the first place (and you will find that I have not expressed any ill will towards Ms Boyle) is to comment on the whole fraudulent nature of this "reality" show, and how some people are cynically used to make rich people even richer. And, I repeat - going back to the thread title - Ms Boyle will sing whatever she is told to sing by the Cowell money-making machine.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 May 09 - 04:30 PM

Yes justifiable - irrespective of appearances.

If I were to announce to the members of Mudcat that I want to be the next June Tabor say, I imagine that it would generate a few raised eybrows. And I see nothing monstrous in that.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 05:58 PM

I merely make an observation that your loyal following of a tv talent show competition winner (one round so far) is quite an obsessive one.

A pop psychologist in the making.

You seem to have had quite a few run-ins with "detractors" . . . If you want to address some at me, then that's up to you. I'd prefer you didn't, but if it makes you feel better, then enjoy yourself!

You seem to be the one looking for an argument.

Look at how you phrased your post--what's the payout for you, hmmm? Troll-in-training? Did you want to talk about the thread subject, or are you going to continue to psychoanalyze me, and suggest that those of us who appreciate this woman and want to talk about it are somehow mentally weak or musically deficient?

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 10:54 PM

I suspect this Australian news network could only sample the program, but they talk a little about how they used subtitles on the Susan interview that I missed. Ms. Boyle certainly looks happy. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 09 - 11:07 PM

Ah ha! There is a fan site (I suppose this was inevitable) that has links including this, a little bit of that interview.

I'm not going to fool much with that site, I have the strong suspicion that it isn't one that Susan has any input in. It's there to gush. (I'm sure some of the folks who have commented in this thread won't understand this seeming contradiction.) The address is http://www.susan-boyle.com/. They do have a photo of "Pebbles" on their home page. She is a beautiful kitty. sniffle We lost one of ours in January.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,carol
Date: 16 May 09 - 11:24 PM

one of whitney houston's songs

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Carol
Date: 21 May 09 - 02:39 AM

Hi ,
I suggest Susan Boyle should sing gospel or Mariah Carey's "Hero"
Carol

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 May 09 - 10:20 AM

It's coming up this weekend, and I imagine the performance will hit YouTube a few seconds after the sequence ends.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:45 AM

Okay. To reprise the original performance (now with close to 59,000,000 hits on this link alone). She sings again this weekend. A lot of people have patiently waited for more from Susan--whether she wins or loses this contest, she is a winner for many people who love her performance, with or without the personal story it is embedded within.

Good luck, Susan! I look forward to your first commercial CD!

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:31 AM

She's made it into the Simpsons.

Simpsons reference

That's true celebrity status.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 09 - 12:33 PM

If you make it onto The Simpsons, you have arrived! :)

Information about the program tonight. They say the performance will be posted (well, duh!) soon after the program.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Fran
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:25 PM

She is through to the finals, she sang 'Memories'. a shaky start but then it got better. Susan Boyle Semi Finals

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:41 PM

Boy(le), that WAS quickly posted! I just saw the end of her performance and the voting only a few minutes ago!
Slightly rushed, I thought, always one jump ahead of the music, not entirely happy with the long notes, but great voice! Wondering if she'll be too busy to come to our local Festival (about 10 miles from where she lives!)
TB

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 09 - 07:03 PM

Yeah, the first few notes were just a bit uncertain, but she finished it off very nicely.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 09 - 09:27 PM

I think this was probably more nerve wracking than the first time--no expectations last time, and then all of the expectations leading up to this one. That was a really rocky beginning, but once she gets the hang of all of this she'll start out fine in each. It would be nice to hear the entire song, not the expurgated version of each of these.

Did she move on to the second round? (One guesses so, but if not, it means she can get on with the rest of her life's work sooner.)

We can certainly say that we named that tune, didn't we?

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Mallee
Date: 24 May 09 - 09:34 PM

Memories. I am Psychic

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 09 - 10:41 PM

Memory is the name, actually. I misnamed it when I spoke to Betty Buckley in the grocery store one day and she corrected me. I won't forget that one again!

If Susan reads through the thread she'll find lots of great suggestions for her first 15 CDs. :)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Hollyflewin
Date: 24 May 09 - 10:54 PM

Dream the Impossible Dream - from Man of LaMancha
Don't Cry for me Argentina - from Evita (another Andrew Loyd Webber)
The Music of the Night - from Phantom (another Andrew Loyd Webber)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 09 - 12:01 AM

I had a piano version of The Impossible Dream when I was a kid, and I played it way too often. Now I think I'm allergic to it.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: BK Lick
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:15 AM

Huffington Post story

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 May 09 - 08:30 AM

It makes a fella feel like the average guy actually has a chance in the world, or girl.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 May 09 - 04:29 PM

"The singer, who lives alone with her cat Pebbles in one of Scotland's poorest regions, said before Sunday's performance that she wouldn't transform her appearance. 'I just want people to see me for who I am, and do my best at singing the song, that's what I am focusing on,' she said."

As Ford Prefect (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) might say, "That lady knows where her towel is!!"

Don Firth

P. S. Coincidentally, this (May 25th) is "Towel Day."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 26 May 09 - 01:19 PM

My #1 pick, in which I expect she would be sensational, would be the Gershwins' "My Cousin In Milwaukee" (from Pardon My English, 1932) (has some opportunity for acting, including a wiggle or two).

Others: Gershwin: "How Long Has This Been Going On?" (from Rosalie, 1929 - good contrast between a cutesy intro and bluesy main theme)

Coward: "If Love Were All" from Bitter Sweet (1929) and "Later Than Spring (from Sail Away, 1961)

Rodgers and Hart: "Where's That Rainbow", "It Never Entered My Mind", "I Think I'm Back In Love Again"

Rodgers and Hammerstein: "Everybody's Got a Home But Me" from Pipe Dream (1956?)

Porter: "From This Moment On" from Out of This World (1950) or "I Hate Men" form Kiss Me Kate (1948?)

Moross-LaTouche: "Goona-Goona" from The Golden Apple (1954)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 26 May 09 - 02:15 PM

Ooooh, that "Memory" rendition came off badly, unlistenable until the final chorus.   Oh dear oh dear, more of that won't do.

The Ethel Merman song "Everything's Coming Up Roses" would be in order, and a bit of coaching on covering her 'break', and perhaps a drink or two to take the edge off...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 26 May 09 - 02:37 PM

I think she's utterly overrated.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 May 09 - 02:39 PM

Susan Boyle's triumph was part of the initial publicity for this year's series. I fear she is a little past her sell-by date now. The smart money's on her being pipped at the post by Flawless.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:15 PM

Lox and Greg, you're being very cynical, under the circumstances. The pressure on this second performance must have been tremendous with all of the buildup. Yes, hard to listen to that nervousness, but I won't count Susan out. And even if the competition goes elsewhere for a winner, she'll be recording under more ideal conditions and we can hear more like Cry Me A River when things calm down.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:31 PM

SRS, I'm sorry but 'under the circumstances' of this wretched, money raking, exploitative programme it's impossible to be anything other than cynical

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:51 PM

For those not familiar with the Gershwin Brothers' "My Cousin In Milwaukee", here's a link to a performance by Ella Fitzgerald:

http://www.rhapsody.com/ella-fitzgerald/sings-the-gershwin-song-book/my-cousin-in-milwaukee/lyrics.html

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:55 PM

Emma, I don't see the program here in the U.S., I just see a few clips. I don't watch the American version of all of those various competition programs. I am responding to the mega-hit that her YouTube video became and all of the interviews and expectations. The context of the program seems peripheral to me, I can see the world reaction as being something far more intimidating.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:11 AM

Re: 'Memory' Sounds like she has quite a problem with her upper register, or rather she's scraping the upper limit of her range which makes it sound ugly. Overall I dislike this woman's voice and lack of interpretation. Volume, does not translate as feeling to me. As a competitive performance, she didn't deserve to win anything. Though in her defense I've no idea what all the stress from the publicity must be doing to her. And I feel sorry for her too, I imagine the circus will soon be leaving town.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:34 AM

I don't think I'm being cynical at all.

I love to hear a good singer singing well.

I saw the first Susan Bpyle Audition and it only piqued my interest because everyone was making such a big deal.

I took a second look in case I had overlooked something and didn't see anything extraordinary.

I think the Panel were looking for another Paul Potts and they decided that she fit the bill.

I also think, and have thought consistently throughout that her appearance has been central to the way she has been marketed.

The way "Britains Got Talent" have sold her has been something along the lines of "wow - she looks like that yet she can sing nicely - amazing!!"

This approach I find utterly demeaning to her.

She has been sold to the public under the guise of a role model to big frumpy women, so that they too might feel that their lives are worth living.

How insulting!

Before people jump down my throat and accuse me of being unfair, I would like you to consider this Analogy.

When you think of Ella Fitzgerald, do you think "Big Fat Black Singer Ella Fitzgerald - role model to Big Fat Black women everywhere"

Or do you just think - "I think I'll rewind that song because it was brilliant."

And while we're drawing parallels, lets consider why Ella was considered such a good singer - she could do anything - touch you, energize you, make you laugh ... etc ...

In terms of repertoire Susan Boyle is a one trick pony.

But most importantly, from my personal point of view, Her voice is ok but I wouldn't pay to go and watcch her - and if she was performing in front of me I'd probably listen for a short while, but I would need to get out after the third song.

And that's without the gushing praise from the "isn't she amazing" brigade.

Finally, have another look at the audition clip on youtube and look at simons smile.

A more insincere slimy contrived facial expression I have never seen, yet somehow people are prepared to believe his acting.

Sorry if you disagree.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:56 AM

Lox, you have hit several nails on their heads.

Susan Boyle is not an especially gifted singer, though I wish her well as anyone in her situation deserves the opportunity to find success if the opening arises. Her particular 'style' is one that a lot of audiences currently admire, but to my ears it lacks finesse, subtlety, wit or genuine power.

Personally I blame Whitney Houston - a great singer until she started shouting a few bars into 'I Will Always Love You'. The world fell at her feet & ever since then, battering-ram bellowing has been mistaken for real skill.

And let's not forget the 'genre' of music S.Boyle seems to favour - middlebrow cod-operatics from stage shows that cater for those who think they're getting 'real culture'.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:04 AM

So let us consider the other side of the coin Lox,that this may not have been a set up, that she came out of a batch of thousands and impressed after giving a totally unexpected great performance.
I understand your cynical response and to many that are trying to pull the rug from under her feet. A not particularly good looking woman ,overweight and not particularly well dressed was marketed? Come on now Lux just think a bit more clearly about this.I totally agree with the dislike of the programme and the way the performers are exploited and ridiculed,but this lady has come from a little town in Scotland has shown that a nobody can set the World alight by her singing. A matter of choice if you like her voice or not, but good luck to you Susan,I for one would enjoy it very much if you win it. There are two spectacular dance groups to nip it away from her however.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:22 AM

Alan,

I hope she finds happiness in whatever she does and I wish her luck in the competition.

I didn't say whether or not I thought it was a set up, I have been ignoring that discussion and remain uninterested in it.

I do think however that the reason she was put through and featured so heavily in the TV show (when as you say thousands entered) was because of her marketability,

Her marketability is based on her media personality - a shallow construct based on her appearance and her place of origin.

Media personality is the key to all popular performers nowadays.

Everyone thinks they 'know' kylie - we have a soft spot for her regardless of her talent as a singer. This comes from our affection for Charlene from Neighbours.

Robbie Williams appeal again was based on his fans collective illusion that they knew him - they knew when he meant it and when he was taking the piss.

Reality TV shows like the X factor and BGT allow a media personality to be cultivated and sold. The decision about who to market and who to put through to the finals is made straight after the auditions and those people are followed by the cameras from day 1 till the final when we the public have to decide which one we like the best.

The other Yesses are ignored and filtered out slowly but surely, leaving us wwith the illusion that "our" favourites have made it ... "YESSSS!!!!" ......

Susan Boyle is all about the hype. The touching story, and its west end musical soundtrack and moments of triumph, despair and shared anticipation and nerves is all completely and deliberately contrived.

If this was a talent show in your church hall, local community centre, song circle, session or open mic night, she would get polite applause and little else.

Watching Simon Cowell go on - weeks later - about how he wants to apologise for thinking that she was a joke when he first saw her cos she looks so awful etc was about the most nauseating bit of emotional engineering I have witnessed outside hollywood.

Guys, the empress isn't wearing any new clothes.

Thankfully she kept the old ones on.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 10:43 AM

Lox, you're so busy deconstructing the media martketplace you forget that many who viewed Susan's video DON'T get or DON'T WATCH the program(s) that pit one contestant against another. The response to her YouTube video was something all out of proportion to the program itself, way beyond what you describe in your pros and cons media nanny cogitations. Not everyone is as gullible and shallow as you suggest, and her performance broke free of the armature of the "talent show" weeks ago. This isn't about Britain's Got Talent. This IS about a lot of people who happen to think that Susan has a beautiful voice and is, if allowed, going to emerge into the music world as a mature performer with a rather fairy tale aura. Susan's gifts are very real, Smedley, as I think you and many others will come to recognize sooner rather than later, once the nonsense of these television programs is over with.

What you're missing is the most important moment in the first audition, the moment when Susan finished singing and turned around to walk off of the stage before the judging began. She went out there to sing. She didn't expect to win, she proved something to herself, but if she was accustomed to being judged by her looks, she apparently (possibly) assumed this was as much as she was going to get out of the program where beautiful people generally reign. She had a chance to prove she could sing to a big audience and she took it. Forget the game show blather. Let her get past the incredible pressure of competing, and she will shine.

Personally I blame Whitney Houston - a great singer until she started shouting a few bars into 'I Will Always Love You'. The world fell at her feet & ever since then, battering-ram bellowing has been mistaken for real skill.

No Whitney wasn't the first. I was disappointed with several of Barbra Streisand's albums during the 80s and early 90s because she seemed to be bellowing out her songs, not singing. They were way too loud.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:41 AM

No Whitney wasn't the first. I was disappointed with several of Barbra Streisand's albums during the 80s and early 90s because she seemed to be bellowing out her songs, not singing. They were way too loud.

-----------------------------

You may be right (I've never knowinglyheard any post-1970s Streisand) but the Houston single was a multi-million-seller, regrettably, so I'd wager it had more influence than Babs.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:15 PM

Why are we discussing Susan Boyle on a folk/traditional/blues site? Bad threads drive out the good, and we really don't need anymore like this one.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:21 PM

Because people have opinions on music across the generic spectrum, perhaps ? And the number of posts on this thread as opposed to some purely 'trad' ones tells its own story, I think.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:45 PM

Michael, there are a couple of others who have made a similar complaint. We've told them the same thing I'll tell you. If you don't like the thread, go participate on one you do like. It's that simple.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:58 PM

"The response to her YouTube video was something all out of proportion to the program itself, way beyond what you describe in your pros and cons media nanny cogitations."

The youtube clip includes the Ant and Dec preamble with emotional music soundtrack, it includes the edited crowd giving its 'spontaneous' standing ovation, Amand Holden wiping tears of unrestrainable emotion from her cheeks as Piers and Simon exchange meaningful looks and Ant and Dec burbling about how "I bet you weren't expectin' that pet" - all beautifully edited and it includes the whole post performance hype that came from the judges and of course from Ant and Dec, with continued triumphant emotional soundtrack and then of course the judges 'offstage' comments "wow she was amazing" etc.

To suggest that the youtube viewers were immune from the hype is therefore not true.


"the moment when Susan finished singing and turned around to walk off of the stage before the judging began. She went out there to sing. She didn't expect to win,"

Or she might just not have known what to do next ... how does anyone know which of the millions of possible reasons for doing that was her actual reason.

She wasn't there to win?

She entered a competition and she competed.

Your comment above refers to your emotional response, and you are projecting onto her your belief about what her motives are and about who you think she is - It may be coincidence that the personality you are attributing to her is the same that is being hyped in the media.

In reality, you know her as well as I do - that is to say not at all.


"but if she was accustomed to being judged by her looks, she apparently (possibly) assumed this was as much as she was going to get out of the program where beautiful people generally reign. She had a chance to prove she could sing to a big audience and she took it."

Last year, when Paul Potts won, Simon cowell rubbed his hads together and thought to himself 'wow - here's an unexpected money spinner - non typical looking performers who can sing'

Have you seen slumdog millionaire? the scene where the little boy who can sing is blinded by an organized crime boss?

Well that stuff really happens. Why? Because people love to be moved to tears by the beautiful singing voice of a little blind boy as opposed to a little sighted boy, so the organized crime boss knows he'll be worth more money blind.

Simon Cowell sees Paul Potts raking in the cash all over the world (because of youtube? again?) and he sees a similar opportunity in Susan Boyle.

Now its timee to honestly ask yourself this question.

Which came first - the "youtube phenomenon" or the news story ...

... and who paid for the news story to become news? ...



Susan Boyle is not a bad singer.

But there are thousands of better ones.


She will go the same way as Michelle McManus of Pop Idol fame.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:12 PM

My Gawd, I have never seen such a massive collection of mean-spirited nay-sayers--not to mention lousy judges of singing voices! Incredible!

Case in point: "Sounds like she has quite a problem with her upper register. . . ."

Speaking as one who has been studying voice off and on since I was a teenager and listening to all kinds of singers, from gut-bucket to pop to rock to blues and folk (especially), on through Broadway musicals, Grand Opera, and art song, I think I know something about singing voices.

And I can say, with the full assurance that I would be backed up by the vast majority of voice teachers and singing professionals that, not only does Ms. Boyle have a genuinely fine singing voice--a considerably better voice than many well-known professionals--but that her upper register is her really strong suit.

She got off to a slightly wobbly start in "Memory" and then got it together. This was not due to any defect in her singing voice or flaws in vocal technique, but to sheer nervousness! And who could blame her, considering her lack of experience in singing before a large audience and on national television and with the whole world looking on and judging her?

No bloody wonder she was a bit nervous! Wouldn't you be? Could you do what she did, anywhere near as well as she did it?

All she needs is more experience singing before large audiences. She has the voice and she knows how to use it well, and she has a good musical sense. Give the woman a chance, for cryin' out loud!!

Most of what I read here is just sour bloody grapes!!

Don Firth (spitting nails at the sheer pettiness of some of the comments here!)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:24 PM

'And I can say, with the full assurance that I would be backed up by the vast majority of voice teachers and singing professionals that, not only does Ms. Boyle have a genuinely fine singing voice.....'

In fact Don, here in the UK at least, West End professional singers etc have consistently and, as far as I've seen, unanimously said that her voice doesn't have what it takes for the professional stage but, as you claim she has 'a considerably better voice than many well-known professionals' I suppose they are all suffering from 'sour bloody grapes' too

Simply disagreeing with your opinion Don does not make any poster here 'petty'

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:29 PM

And--I don't care diddly-squat about how she looks.   Or all the hype, or whether the show is phony, or who the money-grubbing carpetbaggers might be, or any of that.

I am listening to the lady's singing voice and the way she uses it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:33 PM

Her voice is fine, Emma B. All she really needs is a little experience to get it all together.

Maybe some of the West End professional singers you cite are a bit nervous?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:36 PM

Lox, again, you're wrong. I'm projecting nothing. I've listened to her interviews, I'm not reporting something imagined. Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?

Your comment above refers to your emotional response, and you are projecting onto her your belief about what her motives are and about who you think she is - It may be coincidence that the personality you are attributing to her is the same that is being hyped in the media.

I don't know Ant and Dec from anyone. I'm really not interested in the tears or smiles of the judges. I watched Susan as she delivered the song. And I've listened to her very nice version of Cry Me A River. If you don't know how to filter out the noise (the above mentioned tears and smiles and remarks), I don't know how you're going to understand the point I'm trying to make, or even understand why many people are so pleased with her performance.

Her premature stage exit isn't something I alone remarked upon; if you read through these threads and other conversations, you'd know that the first performance was a challenge to herself to get out there to sing in front of a large audience. Her voice teacher urged her to do it. While that performance is NOW a turning point in a more complex story, this story from that point is not something that Susan expected. I saw the Paul Potts performance, and am aware that his career has been launched from a similar contest stage performance. I don't know how Susan compares herself to Potts, or if she thought she had a chance because he made it. Interviews haven't covered that question. To pronounce the entire program and system as corrupt, calloused, calculating, whatever, is stating the obvious. If you see the performers and viewers as equally corrupt or their reactions suspect, then perhaps very little makes you happy in this day and age.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:40 PM

Thanks, Don, we cross posted. I know of your background, and know that you have one of the finest singing voices I've ever heard. Your praise speaks volumes.

Who are these under-impressed "West End" singers? Can you cite some names? The ones I heard interviewed were impressed with her work, as was Patty LuPone, who performed the same song on Broadway when it debuted here in the U.S.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:46 PM

'Her voice is fine, Emma B. All she really needs is a little experience to get it all together.'

Don, you are entitl;ed to your opinion as others are entitled to theirs without being termed 'mean spirited' etc because they don't happen to agree with you

I believe she needs a great deal more than 'a little experience' but I'm not calling you names because you disagree with me - ok?
I'm just questioning your statement that you have absolute assurance professionals and voice teachers would agree with you as the generally held and stated opinion amongst such people doesn't seem to bear this out.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:58 PM

'Who are these under-impressed "West End" singers? Can you cite some names?'

I have already posted links SRS but.....

from one report on April 18th

'THE combination of her dowdy appearance and angelic voice may have captured the imagination of the nation, but Wales' West End stars last night poured cold water on Susan Boyle's chances of becoming a bona fide musical star.....

John Owen-Jones, who was the youngest ever Jean Valjean and has played the part several times in the West End and on Broadway, said Boyle was no more talented than dozens of other West End wannabes.

"I'm starting to get sick of people like her because there's lots of people in the West End who can sing like her and work hard at what they do", he said.

"She has a good voice and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not trained and she couldn't do eight shows a week in the theatre.....

While being rather more complimentary about her talent, Stifyn Parri, who played Marius for two years at the Palace Theatre in London, said Boyle's voice wasn't strong enough to convey her to the country's top theatres.

"She hasn't got the best voice in the world", he said. "I don't know if she has the potential to be in the West End but she's certainly got what the public are looking for."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:08 PM

"No bloody wonder she was a bit nervous! Wouldn't you be? Could you do what she did, anywhere near as well as she did it?"

Yes, everyone doing a competition gets nervous. I guess that's a part of it. As to doing what she does - I wouldn't want to. In point of fact, and this is the bit where you get to roll your eyes in disbelief and pull faces (off camera - so no worries about receiving death threats), I really wouldn't want to swap my voice for hers. I just don't like it - I find it brash, cheap and unattractive. I've no desire to sing show songs on big telly comps either. I'm more than happy in pubs singing traditional folk songs. Other people are entitled to express a less than glowing review, without it being considered bitching or jealousy. She's put herself in a competition purposefully, in order for others to judge her ability - I personally find it wanting.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:12 PM

Yes, Don, to everything you kust said. A brilliant upper register once she's relaxed into it.

I'm thinking she'd do well with a showtune with a long, lazy intro before the vocal acrobatics begin, so she has time to get comfortable. That would get her past what I'm sure will be the paralyzing fear of the final.

Her voice is really good once she's comfy, but I'm afraid she won't get away with a wobbly beginning again.

Claire

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:33 PM

"Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?"

I haven't said one word about anyones character.

I've said that I think Susan Boyle is overrated and that she owes her fame to cynical hype.

I've also wished her well and good luck in the competition.

Do I see the performers as corrupt?

Well what did I say - That I know her as well as anyone else here ie not at all.

So I haven't made any cooment on her character except that I don't know anymore about it than anyone else here.


As for the audience on the clip ...

... watch it again honestly and tell me that that is an honest audience response ...

She's a nice singer.

She isn't any more than that.

The rest is fluff.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:03 PM

Clearly this thread was set up for people to speculate on Susan's future success. Those who don't like her or wish her well need to move along. Trolling is so unattractive.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:19 PM

Crow Sister, it appears that what it amounts to is that you don't like the kind of songs Susan Boyle sings. Okay, fine. But that doesn't mean that she isn't a very good singer of those kinds of songs. There are people who can't stand opera, but their dislike of singing voices like those of, say, Ramon Vargas, Anna Netrebko, and Dmitri Hvorostovsky does not mean that these three internationally famous opera singers are not brilliant singers. If they don't like listening to the music these three sing, then obviously they are not in a position to judge.

I can hear a brilliant, almost "silvery" quality to Susan Boyle's voice (it's impossible to really express this sort of thing in words, you just have to be able to hear it) that many well-known singers who sing the same kind of songs simply do not have. Does she have the best voice in the world for the kind of songs she apparently likes to sing? No. But it's certainly up there with some of the better voices. And as far as her voice not being big enough for musical theater, that's simply not the case. Even on the YouTube soundtracks (and my computer has a set of excellent Altec-Lansing speakers, complete with sub-woofer, by the way), you can hear the size of her voice when she lets it out, just as you can with the opera singers I have linked to above. And I can tell the difference between electronics and natural reverb.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:42 PM

Trolling isn't attractive.

Neither is putting words in other peoples mouths.

And now that you've finished putting words in my mouth perhaps you could refrain from calling me names.

Plus, if you read my posts again you will find that I have speculated on Susans future success as well.

So to remain on topic -

I think that once the market has finished revelling in the post-audition hype, she will discover that it doesn't have a place for her - which I might add isn't fair as she has done nothing to deserve such treatment - but I think it is a reality.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:54 PM

Lox, you give with one hand and take with the other. Don't expect us to accept your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones.

Your remarks are what is, at best, called "damning with faint praise." No one is fooled.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:20 PM

SRS, I think if you read back on the various threads you will find that many people wish Susan Boyle well without crediting her with a world class voice.

I, for one, hate the exploitation and manipulation of the TV show and the draconian contracts it imposes on contestants not to mention the very nasty ritual humiliation which characterizes the programme as well
I also find the cynical promotion of a 'fairy tale' by a highly paid and sucessful publicity machine distasteful and very disturbing.
Like Lox, I hope sincerely that Ms Boyle comes out of this circus emotionally intact.

As for 'trolling'.....

'In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response'

Now I don't consider my opinion of a singers voice to be either controversial or infalmmatory - it's simply an opinion like yours, Dons or Lox's

Unfortunately the practice or combining threads results in discussions going 'off topic' from the original posters intentions (a typical example can be seen in the recent BS thread about retaining a friendship with a BNP member)

The only examples I've seen of 'provoking other users into an emotional response' however is the name calling of people who just don't share the view that she is a 'world class' singer and the attribution of the meanest motives to them.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:29 PM

I think she would interpret Jerome Kern well.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:29 PM

Fair enough Don. We are clearly hearing different things. I don't enjoy the voice I hear, and you do. I do hear distinctly unpleasant tones at the top end in particular. I do however think she could do West End quite well (I hope she gets some kind of reasonable career out of all this), and that her voice and style of singing certainly suit the material she likes to sing.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: breezy
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:40 PM

Lox talks bolls,

did you get it ?

There was no hype, there is no hype.

Wobbly start agrred but recoverd well to finish strongly

Go Susan go

Me mam won cups for singing !

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:52 PM

"Don't expect us to accept your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones."

Ok - if I ever make such a suggestion I will be sure not to expect anything from you, just as I have no expectations of you now.

In the meantime, I would really appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth.


I have given my point of view which is in two parts.

1, I think she is ok - nothing special.

2, I think the reason she is so successful is down to media hype as I have described above.

If I met her I would say "I think you sing very nicely" and I would wish her luck.

If she asked me "Am I really that unique" I would honestly tell her that I didn't think so.

No review has ever commented on the appearance of Dame Kiri Tekanawa or Ella Fitzgerald, except maybe in brief reference to what they were wearing, as to do so would be trite and shallow.

I could listen to either of them all night and be moved without the assistance of a sob story and a panel of gushing judges.

It is my opinion that Susan Boyles singing is unmoving without those things.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:56 PM

"Lox talks bolls,"

Your opinion - fair enough.

"There was no hype, there is no hype."

yes ... and God made the earth in seven days before putting dinosaur fossils in the ground to test our faith ...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 10:26 PM

Why don't you go start a "why we don't really like Susan Boyle" thread, and quit harping on this one? You say words are being put in your mouth, I say not--with what you put on the page, and with those big gaps you leave for reading in between the lines, you're not kidding anyone.

Where's Alice with all of her great links to interviews? They'd be very welcome about now!

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 May 09 - 02:39 AM

The woman's put herself in a competition where she's deliberately inviting the public to judge her performance.
This thread was about what should she sing next in that competition.

Well now she's sung again, and she sang Memories.

I don't think she deserved to win the last round, based her performance of the song 'she sang next'. Others obviously do.
Her story isn't a big personal drama or sob story, she's just an average looking woman, with a strong but not exceptional voice (IMO), who has gained a lot of publicity from a TV show.
But in my humble, you do seem to be getting your knickers in a bit of a twist there Stilly, and over not very much. You don't seem to be able to endure any comment on her performance, which isn't glowing. Boyle still has a huge following, and I hope she does alright out of all the coverage.

Anyway, I'll leave the thread to fans. I've avoided personal bickering on here for the most part, and I don't plan to get drawn into any now.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:21 AM

'Anyway, I'll leave the thread to fans'.....

Think I'm with you on this Crow Sister

"A fan(actic)* is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:23 AM

"You say words are being put in your mouth, I say not"

Here are some words that you have put in my mouth.

"your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones."

Please show where I made such suggestions.

"Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?"

Please show where have I commented on anyones character?

"If you see the performers and viewers as equally corrupt or their reactions suspect, then perhaps very little makes you happy in this day and age."

Where did I say that the performers were corrupt?

How does this reflect on my happiness?

"Lox and Greg, you're being very cynical"

Why? because we don't think she's amazing like you do?

"Those who don't like her or wish her well need to move along."

Why? You said that "this thread was set up for people to speculate on Susan's future success".

So basically what you're saying is that if I disagree with you then I am not welcome.

You are also saying that if I disagree with you it can only be because I think there is something wrong with the character of people I disagree with, I am just very cynical or I am lacking in happiness.

The only person talking about character here is you and you have referred to mine in the quotes above. I have not said anything about your character.

Let me ask you a question:

Why have you needed to turn disagreement with this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes not to be particularly impressed by her voice or to know anything her story?

"with those big gaps you leave for reading in between the lines, you're not kidding anyone."

My first post was one line long. It said that I thought she was overrated.

Your response to it was to call me cynical, then to make comments (as shown above) about my character, then to call me a troll.

At first I humoured you and explained my thinking.

Now that I see you are just trying to drive away a dissenting voice (as quoted above) I will not bother to explain anything else to you.

You're behaving like a spoilt teenager who isn't getting her way.

Grow up!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:33 AM

Argggh! She's made it to the cover of The Radio Times! Maybe if SRS lived over here she'd see things in a completely different light...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: evansakes
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:05 AM

I watched Susan Boyle's audition appearance on YouTube and thought it was pretty spectacular. Her naivete coupled with the preconceptions of the audience and judges only added to the emotional impact that night.

We then watched her first proper performance at the weekend and it was something of a reality check after all the hype. Maybe nerves and the weight of expectation got to her. Her intonation at the beginning and end was actually poor (though the middle bit was much more confident and assured). I suspect if she was auditioning for a West End show that she'd not have been successful

I think she did herself no favours by choosing 'Memory'. If she picks the right song I think she'll still be favourite to win in the final.

I thought the biggest injustice was the ventriloquist (who did Pavarotti) being overlooked in favour of the pretty boy who contorted his face throughout the U2 song. Even through clenched teeth and with a deadpan expression he clearly had a far superior voice and talent (and would have given more pleasure at a Royal Variety Show)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:22 AM

I'm annoyed by those who want to turn appreciation and support of this singer into an indictment about my personal life, my imagination, my fairy tales, whatever people are choosing to lob into the conversation. I'm doing just fine, thank you, and would like to see a lucid, supportive discussion and not the usual fan hype (you can't get far through the YouTube remarks before you've seen a lot of nothing). So is that unreasonable? I've tried to keep the thread on the subject, and there are folks who enjoy taking pot shots to see if they can change it, and once again, several of you have. How many times will Lox come back and act like butter wouldn't melt in her/her mouth, clarifying nothing, just to poke at the non-subject some more? Don't act like I'm the problem, or some starry-eyed fan. Get a life, you guys, and if you don't like Susan, go write about it elsewhere. What don't you understand about that simple request?

But wait--this is more about the last word, the annoying remarks to see you can change the topic again. So I guess we'll see more of the nothing you have to say that is worth saying until you get tired of it. This is my last word on the subject.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:54 AM

"How many times will Lox come back and act like butter wouldn't melt in her/her mouth, clarifying nothing, just to poke at the non-subject some more?"

Erm ... well as you have asked a question about me ...

I hadn't planned on poking anything ...

... I think I've shown pretty conclusively up above that you've been the one doing the poking ...

why?

Well it seems to be because I said I don't rate Susan Boyle like you do.

"I'm annoyed by those who want to turn appreciation and support of this singer into an indictment about my personal life, my imagination, my fairy tales, whatever people are choosing to lob into the conversation."

Can you provide an example of anyone doing these things? ... cut and paste should do it.

I have provided examples in my previous post of you doing it to me ...

You can check if you like.


I would suggest that if you don't want it poked, don't poke it yourself.


In the meantime, why don't we just agree to disagree, declare a pax and move on.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:56 PM

God save the Queen.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:11 PM

"Can you provide an example of anyone doing these things? ... cut and paste should do it.
I have provided examples in my previous post of you doing it to me ..."

Guilty as charged, I did publicly accuse Stilly of having her "knickers in a twist." Ooops..

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:53 PM

Well it has been reported tonight on ITV News that Susan has threatened
to quite the show because of all the sniping. So the pressure is getting to her. I expect this will be seen as part of the "Marketing Plan" by some,but it is a sad thing that she has been upset by some people having a go at her because she has a chance to win it. If she does appear then it will be down to her performance on stage that will get her the public vote or not.
I did not enjoy the show tonight.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:55 PM

I repeat,she must sing, God Save The Queen.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:12 PM

From the Telegraph.co.uk

Susan Boyle 'considered quitting' Britain's Got Talent

Susan Boyle has considered quitting Britain's Got Talent altogether due to the pressures of fame, show judge Piers Morgan said.

Morgan launched a defence of the 48-year-old, dubbed the 'Hairy Angel', who is the favourite to win, saying that she has been in "floods of tears" this week and suffering from almost crippling nerves.

Writing on his internet blog, Morgan said that "frightened rabbit" Boyle had fleetingly felt like throwing in the towel to escape all the attention.

He said that reading bitchy comments about her had made him feel "very, very angry".

He wrote: "Susan is finding it very, very difficult to cope, and to stay calm.

"She has been in tears many times during the last few days, and even, fleetingly, felt like quitting the show altogether at one point and fleeing all the attention.

"She's had to read stories and columns, and listen to radio and TV phone-ins, calling her arrogant, insincere, spoiled, fake, mad and so on.

"Now, I have been called all that and worse in my career, but I spent 20 years in Fleet Street and know how to deal with it.

"Susan Boyle has never experienced anything like this and is like a frightened rabbit in headlights."

The finalist lost her temper in the lobby of the Wembley Plaza Hotel in north London after being "wound up" by two strangers.

Police stationed at the hotel intervened in the situation.

Boyle was photographed talking to two police officers in the car park following the incident.

A spokesman for Boyle said: "The police were escorting a journalist from the premises who had been winding Susan up. Susan and her sister were talking to the police telling them what had happened."

Speaking to Nick Ferrari on LBC 97.3 radio, Morgan described the church volunteer as "an incredibly sweet, nice, gentle person who has been propelled through this show.

"Suddenly, a month later, she's the biggest star on the planet and I don't say that lightly...

"Anybody who has gone through that incredible transformation is going to be feeling the most unbelievable pressure, not least of which because the final is on Saturday and she knows that everything may rest on that one performance and you could see the nerves almost crippling her on the semi-final show and I just think it's time that everyone slightly backed off...

"Knowing her as I do, she's been incredibly upset this week. She's been in floods of tears."

Boyle, from Blackburn, West Lothian, was propelled into the spotlight following her audition for the ITV talent show, singing I Dreamed A Dream from the musical Les Miserables.

She went on to become a global internet sensation, scoring millions of hits on video site YouTube and gaining celebrity support including that of Hollywood star Demi Moore.

Morgan told the radio station that talk of Boyle's hotel outburst had been "massively exaggerated...

"She is getting this ferocious attention and my heart does go out to her a bit.

"She is really upset about all this and apparently she's really upset that she may have offended me.

"You know what, Susan, all you have to concentrate on now is doing an amazing performance on Saturday.

"You're the red-hot favourite. There are people who want you to fail.

"There are people who want to snipe at you, who want to kick you because now suddenly you're so popular.

"All she has to do is do a great performance."

Boyle will compete for the chance to perform at the Royal Variety Show.

The semi-final stages continue today, with sax sensation Julian Smith tipped to make it through to the final showdown.

The 39-year-old from Birmingham will be joined on stage by grandfather and granddaughter singing duo Two Grand aka John Neill and Sallie Lax, aged, 76 and 12 respectively, from Doncaster and punk pop act Brit Chix from Boston, Lincolnshire.

Breakdancing OAP Fred Bowers, dancing dog act Jackie Prescott and Tippy Toes, from Oxford, and dance troupe Sugarfree, from Essex, will also take part.

Singer Callum Francis, 12, from Hertfordshire, and burlesque act Fabia Cerra, 35, from Oxford, are also hoping to get to the final.

William Hill said it has started to see a possible Boyle backlash and eased her price today from 4/7 to 4/6, with Shaheen Jafargholi cut from 6/1 to 5/1.

The bookies is also offering 10/1 that Boyle swears during the live final and 100/1 that she proposes to Morgan following her victory.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:21 PM

I mane a mistake on May 26 - there is no Rodgers and Hart song "I Think I'm Back in Love Again". I was thinking of "I Wish I were In Love Again". Another one I expect she could do well would be "You Took Advantage of Me".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:28 PM

"Susan Boyle Has Plenty of Reasons to Be Pissed"

'Tuesday night she lost it in a hotel lounge when she heard her favorite judge, Piers Morgan, say on TV that her 12-year-old rival on Britain's Got Talent put in the best performance of the second round.
She flashed what was confusingly referred to as a "rude two-fingered gesture" (could someone please explain what's indecent about a V-sign?) and told more than 100 gathered fans of the show to "fuck off" before retreating to her room

Critics say it's the diva kicking in, and sympathizers say it's the pressure becoming intolerable......

A healthy temper doesn't quite fit into the Cinderella story that the show is promoting; Piers Morgan is portraying her as a victim of UK media jackals, saying "the increasingly unpleasant bitching and carping" is driving the sensitive songbird to tears, and issuing a treacly call for everyone to give her a break. "My heart absolutely bleeds for the poor woman," he intones, adding condescendingly, "Susan's just a sweet, middle-aged lady from a Scottish village who can't really comprehend the sheer scale of what's happened to her."

Her video's gotten 200 million hits on YouTube and she hasn't made a dime off it, and now she has to compete with 12-year-olds and wacky dancers to win this thing, or be perceived as a loser.....

Caroline Miller alternative report no doubt not emanating from the shows publicist

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:50 PM

The idea of Piers Morgan talking about Media Jackals is utterly preposterous.

Ex editor of the Daily Mirror, the man is a walking tabloid who doesn't so much speak in sound bites as in cheap headlines.

The Jackals are him, Simon Cowell and their bit of posh weepy totty Amanda Holden.

And I don't believe one word that I read in the news on this subject any more than I believe the lies that are peddled about any other celebrities.

I don't know if she can pull out now ... she is already a household name and face - she may need the buffer zone now that fame and money offer between her and the public if she is to remain sane.

She can't go back to how it was - cos that place doesn't exist any more.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:02 PM

300

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:03 PM

The famous "V" sign is considered obscene in the UK, Emma, if the knuckles of the fingers forming the V are facing outward. It is exactly the same significance as "giving the finger" in North America. (perhaps Brits feel that 2 fingers are better than one...)

If the knuckles of the fingers forming the V are facing inward, however, which means that the other 2 fingers and the thumb are out in front, then it is not considered obscene. Churchill's use of the "V for victory" gesture was of the latter type, not the former.

It's a bit easier and more comfortable for the hand to flash the common insulting V sign than it is to do the V for victory sign.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:08 PM

Legend has it that this goes back to the battle of Agencourt.

If the french captured an English archer they would cut of his finger so he couldn't use his bow.

So they would stick up their middle finger at the English to taunt them before battle.

The English would stick two fingers up in defiance.








Of course this is actually just a myth and not true - but it usually gets an excited response.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:08 PM

he V sign is not really 'obscene' LH - it's much more a fairly common 'up yours' gesture said, according to urban myth, to have its origins in the archers who fought in the 100 Years War against France

It was a means of telling your opponent that you were still capable of drawing a bow string back, as you still had two fingers!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:09 PM

Ha,

Beat you to it ;-)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tootler
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:21 PM

When I was at school, which is a few years ago now, we understood the V sign to mean "bollocks". I didn't hear the Agincourt myth until many years later.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:45 PM

I find it really pathetic, not to mention disgusting, how the sudden success of an otherwise obscure person can bring out the worst characteristics of some people.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: robomatic
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:32 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight but I was slightly disappointed that her last choice was the big one from 'Cats'. Still, it's her choice, and if she likes it, more power to her.

I suspect that my desire to get an idea of her staying power with "Inna Gadda Da Vida" would be problematic, but it would sure make the others have to sing faster.

I'd like to hear her do some classic torch number.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeanie
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:19 AM

It has saddened me greatly to read about the way Susan Boyle has apparently been affected by the publicity (both positive and negative) following her winning the first round.

The public's reaction to her was such an unprecedented overnight, immediate phenomenon. I do wish she, or someone close to her (her singing teacher, perhaps) had seen the sense in engaging an agent/personal manager immediately after the first show. I hope she is getting one now. She could have been saved from so much. An agent would steer her through the minefield of publicity interviews, the reading (or not !) of press articles and so on, and would advise her on the wisdom (nor not !) of making any instant changes to her appearance and would advise her on the best choice of song and so on.

An agent would also tell her that losing the contest would definitely not make her a "loser". It was a different kind of contest and contestant, I know, but all of the main contenders in the "Maria" contest have gone on to major roles in the West End and national tours.

An agent would also prepare her for the kind of "public" she would be meeting. Not long ago, I heard two actresses speaking who had each been famous long-running characters in "Casualty" and "Brookside" respectively. They were saying how people would camp outside their doors, acost them in shops, make critical remarks about their appearance and so on. One of them had gone on to work in classical theatre with Derek Jacobi and asked him how he coped with the public's attention after "Cadfael" when out and about. He said it rarely happened: "Different sort of audience, my dear."

However the finals of "Britain's Got Talent" turn out, there is certainly a performing future for Susan Boyle and I do hope she is able to take the opportunity to pursue it, with proper professional guidance.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:04 AM

Susan Boyle has been handled with quite insensitive and shameless marketing by the only people who are making any money out of her TV appearances to date while being constrained in everything she can do, say or perform by the compulsory draconian contract

Her 'image' and Cinderella story has been carefully manipulated and promoted by the producers for maximum emotional impact on the viewing/voting public but, I'm pleased at least that she has finally lost her temper with Piers "Rent a Gob" Morgan - described by the people who know him best as "smarmy", "arrogant" and "self-satisfied"

He has cynically given a somewhat naive Ms Boyle the impression that he is her biggest fan and, when he openly praised another contestant as being in with an excellent chance of winning (all part of whipping up viewing figures and more dosh) it is hardly any suprise that she felt betrayed and used; frankly I'm suprised she only yelled 'Fuck Off'

Jo Hemmings, a leading behavioral psychologist, has observed that although she never initially expected to win when she first entered thanks to the plethora of uncritical and almost frenzied adulation she now has an artificial selfbelief that has been put on her by other people adding -

- She's now convinced she'll win - and that's part of her problem

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:53 AM

"I find it really pathetic, not to mention disgusting, how the sudden success of an otherwise obscure person can bring out the worst characteristics of some people."

It is an apt illustration of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" as also evidenced on this thread.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:17 AM

Bobad, my feelings are nothing to do with the 'politics of envy' or any other interpretations of 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'

As I have posted before, I have nothing to feel envious of.
True Ms Boyle has a (much) better voice than myself (but then almost everyone has) but I have been blessed with a good education and a sucessful and rewarding career and social life that she has missed out on.

I am however angry of what has been dome to this apparently trusting naive woman in the name of public 'entertainment' and padding the already overful wallets of those that have exploited what is, frankly, a good talent but not one likely to bring her the sort of career she wishes for despite the internet phenomena and cleverly manufactured publicity.

Like the psychologist I quoted above I feel that the uncritical adulation has uiltimately done her no favours either.

Nevertheless, I reiterate that I hope she comes out of this circus as unscathed as possible, wish her the best with what I fear will be a short lived 'fame' and feel sad that sometimes we do have to be very careful what we wish for.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:05 PM

Well, all the UK papers today are headlining on her imminent mental collapse and saying that she's on the verge of withdrawing from from the BGT finals. The Boyle Bobble appears to have well and truly burst! Poor woman's been well & truly shafted, as of course was a foregone conclusion all along - she was set up for a fall. Not a matter of told you so, just a matter of an absolutely tragedy that a human being could be treated in such a way. Still, if all she comes out of this with is a little wisdom and an appearance of the cover of The Radio Times then that's achievement enough I would say. 15 minutes of fame? It's been barely 5!

Time, as ever, will tell. I hope I'm wrong, and that she goes on to fill SRS's CD collection will many cherished volumes, but it's looking unlikely...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:35 PM

I agree, bodad.

I also agree with Jeanie. No matter what happens in the finals, Susan Boyle has already won. What she needs to do now is to get herself a good agent-manager who will look out for her interests, guide her career (if, indeed, that is what she wants), and protect her from the exploiters and those who would try to drag her down.

I repeat: what happens in the finals is not all that important. Even if she did decide to withdraw (which might not be a bad idea, just to save her nerves), she has already won.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:53 PM

'Rarely has a television show been more badly misnamed than Britain's Got Talent.

The producers might like to pretend the programme is inspired by the quest for entertainment gold. But, in truth, the base metal of cynical exploitation lies at its heart.

It is a celebration of banality and eccentricity, not of genuine talent.
In this modern version of the Victorian freak show, too many of the contestants have neither the real star-quality nor the psychological equipment to cope with the sustained, harsh glare of the public spotlight.

Britain's Got Talent reflects some of the worst traits of so-called 'reality television'.
Like its close relation Big Brother, this show is all about manipulating the eagerness for celebrity among vulnerable, often desperate people.

The more tears, humiliation, conflict and embarrassment, the more the public loves it.

The three star judges - Piers Morgan, Amanda Holden and Simon Cowell - keep telling us that this awesome success is based on the British public's desire to be cheered up in the midst of a recession.
There may be an element of truth in this, but I fear there are darker, less uplifting forces at work; a combination of smug mockery mixed with sentimentality, vulgarity and titillation


The prime victim of this show's contempt for morality is Susan Boyle

Her simplicity and otherworldliness - qualities that were a large part of her appeal - have also left her exposed

She is said to have shouted foulmouthed abuse at a TV screen in a public lounge after Piers Morgan, upon whom she has confessed she has a crush, showered praise on her rival for the title, the 12-year-old singer Shaheen Jafargholi.

All this serves only to boost the profile of Britain's Got Talent. As with Big Brother, the greater the controversy, the higher the ratings.

The producers of Britain's Got Talent are no doubt revelling in all this hysteria and the rivalry between Susan and the other leading contestants'

By David Wilson, former psychologist on Big Brother
29th May 2009

and Piers Morgan's part in boosting the rivalry that appears to have caused Susan Boyle's anguish after he had 'flirted with her and asked her out on a 'date'?

What he told one newspaper about Stavos Flatley -

"always had a soft spot for the father and son dance duo.
"They are my funniest and favourite act ever," enthuses Piers

on the TV about Shaheen Jafargholi

his had been "the best singing performance we have heard in the semi-finals so far".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 02:14 PM

'What she needs to do now is to get herself a good agent-manager who will look out for her interests, guide her career (if, indeed, that is what she wants), and protect her from the exploiters and those who would try to drag her down.'

Nice ambition Don but it ain't going to happen

Why?

Whoever actually wins the real winners of both The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent are Simon Cowell, his record company Syco, and ITV, which screens both programmes.
While they rake in millions from the stars of these shows and phone
votes from the public, most of the performers themselves will be lucky to see more than a tiny fraction of the money made off their backs.

While much is made of the prize money for the winner there is some old-fashioned sleight of hand going on.
That figure refers to the amount of money Simon Cowell's record company, Syco, and parent company Sony BMG will payfor writers, producers, stylists and marketing, with the artist receiving an advance of only £150,000 - which sounds a lot of money until you realise they must live off this for the unspecified duration of their contract
Even then the vast majority of any profit made from the CD will go to Simon Cowell

However, for most of the runners-up and finalists on the two shows, the experience is likely to leave them with little apart from a book of newspaper cuttings and a sense of failure.

The roll-call of these 'failures' is already long. Who now remembers
previous X Factor and Britain's Got Talent winners and runners-up such as Shayne Ward, Leon Jackson, Steve Brookstein or Andrew Muir?

Contestants think it is the beginning of their career, but there is
nothing to back it up.

Even after the show a runner up can't sign with anyone for three months.

On tour, the X Factor and Britain's Got Talent acts have to pay for
phone calls or other expenses and even for their breakfast if it's not included in the price of the room.

Impossible that Ms Boyle would be able to afford the type of agent/manager you refer to even in the extremely unlikely event she was allowed to

'Because Sony and Syco have got you, it makes it a bit frustrating if
other work comes up,' says Damon Scott, the 30-year-old singer and
puppeteer who was runner-up to opera singer Paul Potts in the first
series of Britain's Got Talent. 'You essentially have to go to them
for permission.'

Contracts make it clear that Sony BMG has the 'final say' over album
tracks, producers and single releases.

Even more ridiculous than the fact it stipulates that contestants must not say anything 'unduly' derogatory about Cowell, it also says the contract is enforceable anywhere 'in the world or solar system'.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:02 PM

Emma, do the contestants have to sign a contract with Syco to appear on the show? And if Susan Boyle did turn out to be a runner-up in the finals, could she then sign with someone else after three months?

Really good agent-managers don't charge the client. They get their money from a percentage (usually 10%, sometimes 15% with a really good one, e.g., the late Sol Hurok, for example) of the client's earnings.

I worked with an agent for several years, and other than 10% of what I got for a singing engagement, I didn't have to pay him anything. It was in his interest that I was doing well. If not, he didn't get paid. And he kept me working pretty steady without my having to go out and beat the bushes. I was not his only client, of course.

I don't know how things work in the British Isles. Maybe the system is different there. But considering the splash that Susan Boyle has already made and the fact that, even though she may not be Maria Callas or Natalie Dessay, the lady is a pretty darn good singer. I would imagine that there would be agents jostling each other to get at her.

The trick is for her to get one who realizes that her interests and well-being are in his interests as well.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:02 PM

The story on PRI's The World today says she is under such pressure that she has moved to an "undisclosed safe house" until she can return home.

She's Got Presssure (3'30")

All of that pressure, no payment, no turning back. If someone is looking out for her, maybe one day she'll simply get to do what she wants to do--sing. In a studio, or in settings that are appropriate. I like that Derek Jacobi quote. That is probably the answer in a nutshell. Perhaps she can become the Glen Gould of the music world, and stick to studio singing only.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:03 PM

to further quote the psychologist David Wilson

"It's a duty of care, it's about a moral responsibility.

The harrowing week that Piers was describing hasn't been created by the press.
The harrowing week has been created by the programme."

"If Britain's Got Talent was an experiment in any university we would have to draw a line on that experiment because ethically we would be putting the person at the heart of that experiment through emotional turmoil."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:29 PM

I want to offer just one comment here, one incisive bit of analysis that no one else has offered yet on this fascinating subject.

Ahem!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYAAAAAGUGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for listening.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:59 PM

Good commentary on PRI, Maggie.

Random thoughts.

In the glitter and fanfare of all that fame and glamour, starring in live musical theater can be beastly work, as can singing regularly night after night in a club (like a nightclub act) can become. Somehow the glamour can wear off really quick, and it can become just another kind of daily (or nightly) grind. Some folk "yust go nuts" for that kind of life, but a fair number of people who aspire to be stars discover when they get there that it's not all beer and skittles. Out in front of the audience can be a real high, but it can also be damned hard work. In fact, most of what goes on behind the scenes is just damned hard work.

Unless Susan Boyle is really into something like that, and knows what it entails, I would suggest that she seriously consider a recording career. Stilly mentioned Glenn Gould. Good example. He concert toured for about fifteen years and decided it was hell-on-wheels and that he hated it. So he quit and turned his talents to studio recording. He turned out what are arguably the "definitive" recordings (if there can ever be such a thing) of J. S. Bach's keyboard works. And he did it his way and pretty much in his own time.

And it's honorable work. I've seen film clips (Classic Arts Showcase channel) of singers like Bryn Terfel and Kiri Te Kanawa (with Leonard Bernstein conducting. She begins singing at about 1:45 into the clip) in a studio, with full orchestra, wearing earphones and standing before high-quality condenser mics—and dressed in their grubbies—singing their little hearts out. If somebody goofs, okay! Either do another take or tidy it up with software. Once it's in the can, you can then move on to the next thing you want to do.

And someone can listen to your performance as often as they like.

Or "ghost voices." Marnie Nixon dubbed in the voices of Natalie Wood in "West Side Story" and Audrey Hepburn in "My Fair Lady," along with dozens of others (she actually appeared on screen as one of the nuns in an early scene in "The Sound of Music" (in "What Do You Do with a Problem like Maria?" MN had the solo line, "She makes me laugh!"). This gave her a solid career as a singer (she also did concerts and recitals) without the hassle of "being famous," a hassle that Susan Boyle is all too swiftly and painfully learning about.

And don't forget royalties. A radio announcer friend of mine taped a batch of commercials some years ago that the company is still using. He said he spent an hour and a half in the studio recording the spots, they paid him a wad at the time, and still, every three months he gets a royalty check in the mail. For stuff he did once. A few years ago!

Kinda makes a person smile. . . .

Don Firth

P. S. Speaking of Kiri Te Kanawa, she, of course is one of world's foremost sopranos and I like her singing very much. Compare THIS with THIS. Frankly, for sheer verve and intensity, and as much as I like the singing of Dame Kiri, I can't help but prefer the second performance.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeanie
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:02 PM

Yes, Don, the agent system is exactly the same over here - so after 3 months (if that is what her contract with the TV company states) she (or any other runner-up contestant) would be totally free to sign up with any agent. She would not have to make any payment. In fact, in the UK there is a law against agents charging an up-front fee to take someone onto their books - they can only deduct percentages of earnings on work they have found for their clients.

Judging from what I have read here about the hold that the TV production company will have on the eventual winner, it seems to me it would actually be better to be a runner-up and be able to make one's own decisions with the career advice of a good, independent agent, rather than being the apparent "winner", whose hands will be very much tied.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:12 PM

Thanks for the infro, Jeanie. I just hope Susan Boyle is aware of that and has thought the whole matter through. I think if I were her and having to put up with what she seems to be enduring, I'd just bag the finals and go my own way--seeking the advice of those I can trust to have my interests at heart.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:28 PM

Nice break for that friend of yours who did the commercials, Don! It definitely pays to be in the right spot at the right time.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:58 PM

The best act won! Bloody hell those kids are amazing!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: breezy
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:16 PM

Stavros Flatley was robbed

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:23 PM

I Thought Susan Boyle sang well.

I thought the best act definitely won.

And I thought that while the final two acts were waiting for the final result, she seemed to be really unhappy and was shaking and finding it hard to keep it together, and it seemed that she didn't want to be there, until the result was announced, at which point she seemed to relax and looked genuinely happy and relieved that it wasn't going to be her in the spotlight any more.

The others were all much of a muchness.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:27 PM

I'm glad Susan didn't win, for her own sake.

And go Essex!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:27 PM

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't matter whether you win or not. If you take part, you agree to give a cut of your any profits you might make, as a result of the publicity they give you, to the program makers as part of the contract.

So if you come 200th and then go on to sell a million records, you still give Simon Cowell his pound of flesh.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:30 PM

I'm just glad it's all over

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:43 PM

Totsal fix.Flawless were the best! Still, at least the winsome blubber din't win, we must be thankful for small mercies..

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:49 PM

People magazine article.

Good thing it's over. Now Susan can get on with the work she needs to do. Sing.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:50 PM

Has there been some sort of talent show on? Or something?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:15 PM

I was a bit disappointed in Susan repeating her "I dreamed a dream" She sang it well, but if only she had done something different. I have just been reading some of the songs suggested by Mudcatter's and what a shame she did not really belt one of those out. As it was Flawless were outstanding,they pulled out the stops and delivered.
They are now advertising for next years show,I hope the Lemonade Lady enters ( as she said she would).Now here is your chance Lox if you enter you can REALLY find out what goes on.
Do you want your coat back now?
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:22 PM

Too bad that Chongo doesn't live in the UK...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:22 PM

I'll do a duet with you Alan ...

... But you'd best clear your diary for the next 15 years cos it'll take that long for the Al & Lox mania to die down ...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:10 AM

The headlines I'm seeing out there are written by editors who apparently see only in black and white.

Anyone who thinks Susan "lost" in this competition by coming in second is nuts. She has come out of this with so much momentum she can no doubt do what she wants, and pick and choose from offers. That doesn't look like losing to me. But the pressure of that competition is removed, and hopefully an agent and a few personal assistants will help her navigate the next stage.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:32 AM

I couldn't find the video earlier, even though there was news covereage of her performance. I didn't see a YouTube linke above, although there may be one. Click here for a video of Susan's performance of "I Dreamed a Dream," which won here second place in "Britain's Got Talent" this evening.
I would have preferred a new song instead of one I've seen already, but she did this perfectly.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:52 AM

I will start practising Lox
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: evansakes
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:55 AM

"What should Susan Boyle sing next?"

'Show me the way to go home'?

Seriously though I think she'll do well. She's the highest placed singer and this is where Syco (ie Simon Cowell) will make a real killing. A dance group can't sell CDs and downloads so will be less marketable in the short term.

It takes a lot to impress me with these dance acts but the invention and vitality exhibited by 'Diversity' made them worthy winners for me. The main talent in their ranks is of course the choreographer and whatever happens to all his mates he surely has a great career in front of him (maybe Michael Jackson will sign him up?)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:50 AM

I saw two dance acts when people posted links--Diversity and Flawless. Did Flawless proceed through to the finals also, or were they knocked out before that?

I've heard about different parts of the program, Susan's performance, and remarks about Diversity at the end. Are there two separate videos for these?

I listened to a clip of Susan's final program performance, this is also what Paul Potts did, reprise the first song for the last program. The final one may have been flawless, but the first one had a lot more passion. Too bad Susan can't get a few cents per view for that one and retire on her royalties. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:03 PM

Diveristy - The Winners, performing in the Final


Susan's 'Final' performance


Well, Susan knocked spots off those dancers. They're a dime a dozen I'm afraid, although I recognise the hard work they put in, but this lady has a voice that's something special.

It was good to see her singing that song again, not only is it a very beautiful song, but she felt at home singing it, and after all the terrible pressure she's been under, I should imagine that gave her comfort.

I also thought she looked very pretty and very elegant. :0)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:06 PM

Joe, just to let you know. I re-did the link to Susan's performance, as your one isn't working any longer, says 'video removed'....I expect this one may well disappear too...anyway, that's why I did it. :0)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:49 PM

If those dancers are a dime a dozen you'll have no difficulty providing links to dozens of other groups of a similar quality.

Al - so you do the singing and I get the cash yes? you be boyle and I'll be cowell ...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:52 PM

BTW - I thought the girl who sang with her grandad had a much more expressive, dynamic and lively voice than susan boyle. It also had that silvery quality to it.

If grandad hadn't forgotten what was going on for a second and nearly missed his cue they could easilly have been up there.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:57 PM

Here you go, Lox


Put all those lads together, add a few lassies and a great choreographer and....POW!   There are thousands of kids out there who do 'extraordinary dancing' these days..youtube's full of them.

Don't get me wrong, they *were* pretty good, just, for me, not the ones who should have won it. Just a personal view, that's all.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:41 PM

That's pretty amazing!

But the problem with it is that it's in pretty much the same category as the person who can cup his hand in his armpit, and by moving his arm up and down, play Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.

An interesting and jaw-dropping novelty. But where do you go from there?

Don Firth

P. S. No, no matter how you slice it, or who won the BGT finals, the real winner to emerge after all this fuss and feathers is Susan Boyle. She's a singer.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:34 PM

Oh well then thats easy.

Just find a great choreographer and you'll have another group that good

... just haven't found one yet ...

keep looking till you have eh ...

Your post is irrelevant as it contains no humour, no relevant observations and no acting - just world champion competitors ...

The lass who sang with her grandad was a singer too with more flexibility and promise than Boyle, and to my ears with a more pleasing voice - which I might add is still ripe to be developed unlike susans which is stuck in its groove by now.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:43 PM

BTW - I shall not bother linking to world champion singing competitors - and we know that such competitons exist - as we would find that Boyle would be totally outclassed.

But the point isn't to bring her down with derisive falsehoods, just to express our point of view.

You think Boyle should have won? fine.

I don't think she was the best singer.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:35 PM

Lox, I could easily compile a list of twenty female--or male--singers whom most knowledgeble people would agree are extremely good. But there would undooubtedly be general disagreement as to which one of them is "the best." One does not have to be "the best" to have won in the sense that I mean.

Out of a dozen excellent singers, each with his or her own special talents and characteristics, how do you pick "the best?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:49 PM

I cannot understand why you keep repeating yourself Lox. You do not like Susan Boyle's voice, OK. It is a matter of taste, there are a number of singers that I do not like, that people do like.A number of us do like Susan's voice and from the moment I heard it wrote about her on this site.I have never heard such rubbish written about a singer before,non of it based on fact. If she has a large contract before her to do some recordings and make money then good luck to her. I hope she can cope with all the pressure, but losing probably eased her concerns.
I look forward to future recordings of hers and I shall enjoy listening to them and you Lox can just reach for the knob and turn it off.As I am about to do with you.
Remember the subject was "What shall Susan Boyle Sing next" a number of the lovely suggestion earlier in this discussion,I hope.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:31 PM

Don,

"Out of a dozen excellent singers, each with his or her own special talents and characteristics, how do you pick "the best?""

You are much closer to my way of thinking than you might believe.

The reason I made that point was in response to the points made about Diversity being a dime a dozen.

There are in fact lots of contemporary dance troupes, but who stands out within that genre as having more imagination, humour etc.

Likewise, there are many singers. Who really stands out in that genre of performance?

Susan Boyle?

Then turn up the volume and enjoy her music and don't worry about my opinion - it shouldn't affect your enjoyment - we disagree but that doesn't make either of us wrong.


I think that the greatest thing about music is that it is the best example of true democracy that we have.

Whether you know every aspect of Music history, understand every nuance of theory, are conversant with every cultural variant, are able to play every instrument in every style ...

... or not ...

... it ultimately comes down to what you like or don't like.

And nobody is wrong.

Try telling a 12 year old street kid from New Cross that Palestrina is better than Dizzee rascall ...

... or a cowboy from ... I dunno ... texas ... that eric dolphy is better than Garth Brooks ...

we all have the power to simply say "I like it" or "I don't like it"

and that is how we determine whether music is good or not.


And like politics, there is always something to talk about.

And thats a good thing.


And the song for her ... orchestral arrangements of "I loves ya porgy" or "summertime" from Porgy and bess.

Or something subtler with a pianist might lead her to proving she has a range of dynamic posibility.

I suspect that they'll get her belting out euphoric gut wrenchers though wherever she goes which is a pity.

As I have said before, i wish her well.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:03 PM

So, put simply, as you say, what it comes down to is that you don't particularly enjoy her singing and I do. Well, that's life. So be it.

But my point is that, like her or not, by any standards of vocal production and musical quality, she is a very good singer.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:31 PM

"what it comes down to is that you don't particularly enjoy her singing and I do"

Actually I haven't said whether I like her or not - I've said I don't think she stands out from other singers.

And I've given my reasons.

But as Alan says, I'm repeating myself ...

... I did try to get on track with the Porgy and Bess comments.


I hope they don't give her the whole "rock orchestra" treatment with cheesy drumming and big exaggerated key changes as you would expect from Celine Dion etc ...

... I sadly suspect that that is what you can expect her managers, with a little guidance from the cowell morgan mafia, to prescribe for her roadshow repertoire.

You'll be able to catch her live don't forget when the BGT tour happens.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:14 PM

Lox, if you don't particularly like her, I will say it again, give the subject a rest and go talk about something else. We're tired of your same old opinion again and again. Wish her well and move along.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 03:57 AM

Sad News,that Susan has been admitted into a private clinic under The Mental Health Act.
This has been announced this morning on the news. No other information is available at the moment.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:30 AM

Alan,

I agree that this is very sad news.

I hope she makes a full and swift recovery.

The thing that matters most above all else is the womans happiness.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:31 AM

SRS

Pay attention - if you were actually reading my posts you would have noticed that your comments are late at best. ...


But lets pretend for a second that all I have been doing is repeating the same point again and again ... if that was true then my opinion would be as valid as yours or anyone elses so stop telling me where and when I can give it.

As for repetitive - you're like a stuck record.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:38 AM

How bloody awful and predictable, her close friends stated concerns about her as a 'vulnerable' person, were never taken seriously. Wonder what the tabloids headlines will be: "Dreams turn to Nightmares!" "Boyle in Breakdown Shock"? And on it goes, plenty more media mileage left though, as the poor woman won't ever be able to go home to rest now without reporters relentlessly dogging her every move on behalf of her "concerned" fans.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:47 AM

Turns it all into even more of a freak show. Pretty disgusting really.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:01 AM

Looks like the final answer to the question posed in this thread is "They're coming to take me away, ha ha".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Nick
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:03 AM

Jack you are as tasteless as me as that is exactly the song that was going through my head.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM

Talent star Boyle taken to clinic

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

Maybe this will prompt a call for more responsibility to be taken by the makers of these shows.

They plunder the public like an oil company plunders the sea.

They find their natural resource and sell it with no thought for the consequences.

I can just imagine tha conversation between Gordan Brown and Simon Cowell ...

G "Is everything ok Simon?"

S "Yes - we'll still make a profit ..."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Nick
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:01 AM

You don't think anyone could be cynically manipulating this situation do you?

On the 'all publicity is good publicity' and off the back of the suggestion that she will make £8m next year I do wonder. Can't do you too much harm when the Prime Minister makes enquiries after you (second thoughts - not so sure about that) and that you are all over the papers and telly and internet.

No, couldn't be, could it.

Another of the mysteries to me is why her virginity is relevant at all but it always gets mentioned. Could it be that she will be appearing on page 3? A before and after celebrity makeover where it suddenly turns out she looks like (insert fantasy figure of choice)? Or could it be that it's a bit like the famous David Mellor 'making love in a Chelsea football shirt' that was a complete fabrication.

So much cynicism oozing out of every pore that there is a pool under my chair.

I do feel rather sorry for her and what is in store for her which may not ultimately be in her interests.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:20 AM

An accident waiting to happen. Poor woman - I hope she really is faking this and milking the slobbering masses for all they're worth.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:43 AM

Straw Poll here.
Who are more unpopular?
Tabloid Editors?
UK MP's....?
Poor woman. I just hope that she screws them all for shed loads of money.
She deserves it. Not my cup of tea musically, Nice voice though.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:54 PM

Mudcat died for a while and took my last answer.

The stress of the last few weeks would cause anyone difficulties, especially someone unaccustomed to the limelight and the generally thoughtless reports (of her looks) and at times abusive reports (of her character). Now the idea that seeking medical care or advice somehow makes her into a pathetic creature is just too callous for words.

Lox, I stopped reading your posts a while back. I was responding to someone else who also told you, politely, to get lost. I just wasn't so polite. I won't read your next post, so I image you will be able to come back with more insults and feel like you got the last word, won't you? And that's what you're really here for.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: NormanD
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:06 PM

It's all ended in tears. Why am I not surprised?

Build 'em up and knock 'em down!

And who benefits? Cowell and his business associates.

A nice little fable of our times that illustrates the evils of capitalism.

Maybe it's time to let this whole thing drop and just reflect on the morality of it all. And to stop hurling insults at each other.

Norman

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:09 PM

Maybe it's time for Susan to finally start planning what she really wants to do, and to take a look at some of the suggested songs here. Making a plan is one of the best and easiest steps forward when recovering from depression or the doldrums.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:15 PM

"Making a plan is one of the best and easiest steps forward when recovering from depression or the doldrums"

'The doldrums'? I'm sure Cowell et al will think the same, as will anyone else who doesn't take the potential serious psychological and emotional effects on a *known mentally vulnerable* party of the intense degree of ridiculous mass hysteria Susan's recently endured. Stilly, your 'pat on the head' tone, frankly stinks IMO. Especially as it's already been illustrated on this thread, that there have been serious concerns from close friends and family and mental health professionals who've worked on similar shows.

What Susan needs to recover from her breakdown, is to be able to go home and return to secure surroundings, friends, family and village life away from the effects of all this OTT bullshit - just like anyone else who has been unbalanced by overwhelming experiences they are not equipped to cope with. Unfortunately for her, of course she will never be allowed to do that...

However one thing has come from this, BGT are discussing implementing psychological testing prior to allowing contestants enter the show.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:54 PM

Pat on the head my ass.

Crow Sister, I beg to disagree. The mental health professionals in my family would not concur with you. Running home and hiding out won't make her feel any better by itself. Familiar surroundings combined with plan (that dream she had to be a singer is a good start, it's not a bad or unreasonable goal) to help her through this time are better than just going home. And unless the folks in her village are mental health professionals, they are as likely to enable problems to continue as to help solve them.

She needs to sort all of this whirlwind out, and possibly start with baby steps after this setback. Having a goal is good for someone going through stress and/or depression, and she needs to talk this over with a psychologist or psychiatrist or in a similar professional setting like that. Talking through it can be a damn sight better than just medicating someone and hoping the problem goes away, or warehousing them (at home, down in the village). Medication often defers a problem like this, and hiding out won't help.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:08 PM

That's a bit harsh, Crow Sister.

Of course one can't really tell for certain from the various news reports, but the impression I get is that Susan Boyle was more than just a bit overwhelmed by her sudden burst of fame, and even more so by the totally uncalled for nastiness that some small-souled people felt impelled to exhibit (as bodad said, the "Tall Poppy Syndrome").

I have the feeling that hauling her off and locking her in a padded cell might just be a bit premature. Lacking definitive information (as I believe we all are), I would suggest that probably all she really needs to do is back off from other peoples' hype and hysteria and go home for awhile (being careful to raise the draw bridge), then think the matter over and decide what, if anything, she wants to do from here on.

I hope she doesn't just decide to become a recluse. I believe that, with good advice from those who have her best interests at heart, she could have a very productive and satisfying (not to mention lucrative) career ahead of her. I made a few suggestions up-thread that might be worth evaluating, such as concentrating on recording, "ghost" singing, and performing in smaller, more comfortable venues.

I think I'd at least get a bit of medical advice before I'd have her packed off in a straitjacket.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:52 PM

I've just read Crow Sisters post and see no mention of padded cells.

Don, you said:

"I would suggest that probably all she really needs to do is back off from other peoples' hype and hysteria and go home for awhile (being careful to raise the draw bridge), then think the matter over and decide what, if anything, she wants to do from here on."


Crow sister said:

"What Susan needs to recover from her breakdown, is to be able to go home and return to secure surroundings, friends, family and village life away from the effects of all this OTT bullshit"


I don't see a difference in opinion .....


Perhaps I've misread your post, but I took it to be a response to crow sisters, in which case I am curious to know where the reference to striaghtjackets etc comes from.


SRS

"so I image you will be able to come back with more insults"

You may not be aware of it, but anyone can read back over this thread, in which case (assuming that they are so utterly bored that they have nothing else to do) they might take the time to note that I have not insulted you or commented on your character, but have in fact had to endure comments by you on my character and name calling by you.

This has been because my opinion on the subject of this thread is different to yours. The fact that you insist on taking that disagreement so personally and responding in such a personal way says nothing about me but reveals a lot about you.

I am not so intellectualy weak as to be intimidated by your aggressive stance. I will always respond to unfounded accusations and if that means I have the last word then I'll be glad of the resolution it brings.

I've offered you a truce and you haven't accepted it.

I can back up each and every one of my claims with a post reference or a cut and paste if necessary. There is no evidence of the things you have said about me.

I will continue to post here as I find this subject interesting. If you don't like it - tough titties.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM

What Susan needs to recover from her breakdown, is to be able to go home and return to secure surroundings, friends, family and village life away from the effects of all this OTT bullshit

"village life"?

jesus frog, what sort of a place do you think Blackburn is?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:56 PM

Blackburn west Lothian is a village - not to be confused with the city ...

... part of a collection of villages apparently.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Bugsy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:33 PM

"They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha Ha"

CHeers


Bugsy

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:05 PM

Times Online article

[snip]
"Her friends and family may have been very well meaning," says Dr Pam Spurr, a behavioural expert, "but they will have had no idea of the things they should or shouldn't have been saying to her. They could have been saying 'You're going to win, you're going to win'. It becomes very one-sided. Win or it's all lost. And she didn't."

Then again, for the past few months perhaps everybody has been a bit lost. Max Clifford, the publicist, doesn't represent Susan Boyle but does represent Simon Cowell, her new Svengali. "This is an unique situation," he says. "I have worked with the biggest stars in the world. Nobody has ever become world famous this instantly before. With Paul Potts (Britain's Got Talent, 2007) it happened quickly but nothing like as quick as this. Total obscurity to world fame in seconds. Nobody knows how to handle this because it has never happened before. We're all learning. Simon's learning. None of us saw it coming."

Boyle was admitted to the Priory Clinic in North London on Sunday, after an unspecified incident at the Crowne Plaza hotel, Central London. The police have confirmed that officers attended to help "doctors assessing a woman under the Mental Health Act", and the London Ambulance Service said that its staff had been there, too. She is not thought to have been sectioned. All the same, by the end of yesterday it was considered unlikely that she would be taking part in the Britain's Got Talent live tour, which starts on June 12, or that she would undertake a planned trip to the US. Pam Spurr is not surprised. "If she has had any sort of breakdown," she says, "three weeks is not a very long time."

[/snip]

The British jargon--officers helping doctors--that seems to be the wrong way round, and "sectioned"--is this categorized for a particular treatment or wing of the hospital? None of this should be available to the public or press, so I don't expect an answer except what these terms mean in the UK.

[snip]

Max Clifford says. . . . What Boyle needs now, he says, is people from home. "People close to her, whom she has been close to for many years. People who are happy to be in that situation. As opposed to being on her own, isolated, surrounded by television and music executives. These are people who understand the machinations of the media but they don't understand her. She comes from a different planet."

Clifford says that he can't see Boyle ever being able to live a quiet life again. "But I keep reminding people," he says, "she put herself forward. She wanted to be on stage. Right up until last week, when the tabloids turned on her, she was loving the whole process. Simon sees the most important thing as her being happy and fulfilled, whether she is pursuing a career or not."

[/snip]

It's a much longer article, taking detours through various lives altered by sensational fame.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:07 PM

". . . potential serious psychological and emotional effects on a *known mentally vulnerable* party. . . What Susan needs to recover from her breakdown [!!] . . . just like anyone else who has been unbalanced [!!] by overwhelming experiences they are not equipped to cope with."

Lox, it sounds to me like Crow Sister has already sent for the "men in the little white coats" to bundle Ms. Boyle off.

Let's not bury her 'til she's dead, okay?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:19 PM

Now this is fascinating.

I raise the possibility that Susan may not be the best singer since Caruso--though I thought she might well win the contest. I am promptly labeled a troll.

Then Crow Sister says: I dislike this woman's voice and lack of interpretation.   And is promptly declared a troll.

Then Lox says Susan is overrated--and is told "trolling is so unattractive."

Gee, is there a pattern here?   By somebody who thinks that anybody who disagrees with the thread originator's ex cathedra pronouncements is by definition a troll?

And seems not to be able herself to tell the difference between starting a thread and signing up an Amen chorus for Susan?

Plus ca change....(need French diacritical mark).   

Sounds like what I said a month ago fits perfectly.

"The originator of a thread has to realize that a thread is like a child who leaves home---you have very little control.   A thread is of course much worse since after your first posting, you have absolutely no control."

In fact if you try to assert control, you make a perfect fool of yourself.   As we've just seen wonderfully demonstrated.

You can call the thread anything you want. But if people take it in different directions and you try to stop this, you do nothing but frustrate yourself--and wind up in a state of constant outrage.   But who knows, perhaps that is the normal state for some Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 01:00 AM

Slumming, Ron?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:31 AM

The BBC said tonight that, if she is able, Susan Boyle is planning a CD this fall and then a tour of the US. I hope she is able.

This thread is disappointing. It started out, I think, on a cheerful, cheering note for the woman and the surprise she graced us with but deteriorated quickly into being a sniping contest that smacked somewhat of sour grapes.

Why not, as Sage intimates, let this thread be a You go, girl! instead of a sniffy 'I know LOTs of people who would do better', with more than a hint that s/he is speaking of her or himself.

"And that is all I have to say about that."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:32 AM

I know Susan said in her first audition that she lived in a village and that has been picked up on elsewhere, and I know that what constitutes a village may depend on where you come from yourself, but I don't think many Scots would recognise a town like Blackurn as a village. In sheer size it is comparable with most of the market towns in for instance the Scottish Borders. For example the town of Jedburgh has a smaller population than Blackburn and is itself surrounded by much smaller villages like Ancrum, Oxnam etc. To me a village is a small community with maybe only a couple of shops, a pub and small school if they are lucky. In other words it is more rural in character.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:58 AM

I've no idea what happened in this instance, but one of the more common reasons for being sectioned (compulsarily hospitalised for mental health treatment) is if someone's known to be a high suicide risk and a serious danger to themselves. As I say, no way of knowing in this instance whether that applies, but it's one of the more common reasons for compulsarily hospitalisation.

The presence of an ambulance ready to take her to hospital, doctors assessing her under The Mental Health Act, and police backup, means they did come to potentially 'lock her up'. Though there's absolutely no shame in that.

I've known quite a few people who have suffered breakdowns of one sort or another, but I've never personally known of someone being assessed under The Mental Health Act, or indeed sectioned under it. It does sounds like quite a serious incident to me. I hope the papers don't hound her to pieces when she gets out, but it's impossible to imagine her getting any peace. It's a very sad situation.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:00 AM

PS Stilly, apologies for having a temper at you, back there. I don't usually get so snappy at people onlist.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:08 AM

Not trolling, just an observation...
Susan Boyle strikes me as a very vulnerable woman who is perhaps not able to make decisions in her own best interests at the moment. Following an accident at birth she was diagnosed as a child with severe learning difficulties, and spent much of her early life as an isolated and often bullied kid. I'm not a mental health professional, but it would seem to me that someone like that is likely to be less able to cope with the sort of hype and hysteria that have enveloped her than, say, anyone on this forum.
As for what she should sing next; more stuff with her own church choir surrounded by people who know and love her, and a long way away from the 'music industry' and the rapacious, exploitative sharks that swim around it.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 10:03 AM

Stilly,

Interesting post you made there. I see you found Max Cliffords comments interesting and thought provoking.

Reminds me of the post I made before the night of the competition final.


"I don't know if she can pull out now ... she is already a household name and face - she may need the buffer zone now that fame and money offer between her and the public if she is to remain sane.

She can't go back to how it was - cos that place doesn't exist any more."


Is it only trolling if its me who says it? or are you trolling too now?

Or maybe my points are interesting and relevant after all and you are just on a personal vendetta.


Glad to see we agree on what constitute interesting ideas though eh? ...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 01:06 PM

Lox, you win. I'll roll over and just let you have your way. I'm not coming back to my own thread because clearly it isn't possible for a conversation to evolve about a topic in an organic way when people like you and Diane Easby and Ron Davies are more interested in parsing out their own navel lint and following every offhand remark as it if it were of equal weight or importance.

Challenging someone to support a side issue instead of your starting a new thread to discuss it is a waste of the time of people who wanted a lucid conversation about Susan Boyle. We're not interested in the fan sites, the mindless consumption of the story, we want to THINK about it. Bringing in pieces when they are thoughtfully written and timely is one way to forward this conversation--if your sources are yellow rags blaring out nonsense then I don't want to read them, I'd like some thought behind the discussion.

Clearly you don't want to talk about Susan beyond saying the same thing over and over, and you really don't like her, but you do like yanking my chain, and I'm tired of telling you to get lost. I've heard from Joe Offer about calling people trolls--that strategy hasn't worked--you haven't stopped to examine what emotional need you are filling by being the fly in the ointment on this thread. And you are one of several taking turns with pot shots at the topic and those sharing in it. You'd think after a while you'd get the message or go start another thread.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 01:10 PM

For those who really want to fight about something and are looking to exercise that stimulating sense of outrage and drip a little venom on someone, be advised: we already HAVE a fine thread devoted exclusively to quarreling down in the BS section, and we are thirsting for all the contributions we can get.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:06 PM

More unsubstantiated accusations with no bearing on the content of my actual posts.


If you take an aggressive posture with someone, make accusations and call them names you can expect them to react.


I have shown three things above very clearly.

1, I have not done any of the things you have accused me of

2, you have made personal attacks.

3, that if you had actually read my posts you would have seen that not only are we discussing the same topic, but in some cases we share the same views.


Finally, I have tried to make peace and you have rejected my attempts to do so.


Despite this utterly uncalled for, indefensible and deplorable behaviour you continue to take a position of enmity.

The evidence above is utterly overwhelming.

So you make whatever decision you like but be sure not to attack me without good reason.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:46 PM

click

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM

I don't know Susan Boyle but I like her name and I like her face. I wish her well, but no more songs from, ugh, CATS!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:01 PM

well she came second so now maybe the leeches can leave her alone in peace for a while. I applaud her for what she has acheived and in difficult circumstances.
I wish her well and if she does go any further i hope she has a few honest people around to support her endevours
helen

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:06 PM

Amen to that!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Indrani Ananda
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:17 PM

The lady should be allowed to sing whatever song she chooses, the more eclectic the better.

                         Britain's got talent? Well, where is it? We are constantly being bombarded by this punter-fodder for months on end; and night after night on numerous TV channels the stuff is churned out - and they have yet to take this circus on tour, so heaven knows how much more we are in for.

                         Real talent means writing and singing your own songs, not being dictated to as to your choice of performance. The "Editor's choice" might not do your voice justice (!). Where are the novelists, poets, playwrights, painters of masterpieces, costume designers, modelmakers, sculptors etc.? Not there, are they. Yet everyone must surely agree that people in these categories surely do possess talent.

                         Instead, we are expected to listen to hapless hopefuls going through various degrees of humiliation, whether it's catawauling into a microphone - with the rare exception of Susan Boyle here - or leaping around the stage in a raucous frenzy.

                         Why do we allow people like Cowell and the "judges" to belittle people who try so hard? Why is there uproar when a woman with an amazing voice nearly wins and is almost destroyed in the process? Here' why: she's never been heard of before the age of forty eight, and aren't singers required to have big hair, in-yer-faceness, high cheek bones, and a brazen way of writhing around the stage whilst showing all they've got? Shouldn't they be screeching in their pornophonic voices against God knows how many blaring backing tracks and bass-ridden drums, giving us all a good impression of someone being garotted?

                         For a lady like Susan to receive so many votes goes against the commercial grain of Cowell and his ilk, who find it hard to cope when an anomaly occurs. Like when Michelle won, a couple of years ago, I believe, but as she was "overweight", the axes were swift to fall on every side, despite her good performance.

                         My advice to Susan is: milk this for all it's worth while you can, before they change their fickle minds - it's brilliant you got so far.

                         As for which song she should sing next - might I suggest "Sleeping Sun" by Nightwish - the world is badly in need of some lyrical, genteel songs.

                                              Indrani.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:11 PM

Don't follow stuff like Britain's Got Talent - I leave that for the white van men and tabloid 'News Comic' readers (a bit of overlap there perhaps?).

But heard Susan on a news broadcast. Lovely voice.

The people in the media who slagged her off I just imagine as journalists with a big dew drop in the corner of their mouths about to drop on the pile of child porn they've just downloaded.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:23 PM

"Shouldn't they be screeching in their pornophonic voices"

"Pornophonic"....nice word, Indrani.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:37 PM

"Real talent means writing and singing your own songs. . . ."

Got to quibble a bit with that. There are many songwriters, from well-known to obscure, who can't sing for sour owl jowls—but can write some very good songs. And the flip-side: good singers who try their hands at songwriting and turn out pure drivel.

Don't know for sure, but I've hear that Mozart had a singularly unmusical voice.

I generally tend to agree with what you've said, Indrani. When watching those clips of Paul Potts and Susan Boyle (on YouTube here in the U. S., since I can't actually see the show) and I see two not particularly glamorous people come out and express perfectly worthwhile ambitions (Potts saying he wants to sing opera and Ms. Boyle's expressing a wish to be a well-known singer like Elaine Paige), and then seeing the three judges sneer and roll their eyes, makes me want to smack the three of them in their smug faces. One wonders it they would act like that if Paul Potts was a tall, muscular hunk and Susan Boyle was a slinky, anorexic blonde. The satisfaction comes when Potts and Boyle actually deliver, and the judges have to back off and munch a quantity of crow.

But there is even more satisfaction in hearing two hitherto obscure people displaying a prodigious talent and being given at least a moment of recognition for it. If there is a justification for this kind of television show, it is in the opportunity it affords to showcase people like Susan Boyle and Paul Potts. And hope that they can slip the bonds of the hyenas and buzzards and have a real opportunity to develop as artists.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 02:33 PM

Indrani has been using the word 'Pornophonic' for many years to describe.... well need I say more? Totally brilliant addition to the English language!

However I must agree with Don that songwriting, and musicianship are totally different skills.

I think performance is a third one. I've seen performers at clubs whose songs are basic and skitty, their guitarwork is pretty rudimentary, but they are brilliant musical entertainers.

A performer such as above can ceate a great atmosphere both for a guest night and Singaround.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:00 PM

Exactly so. There are people with fairly modest ability who seem to have a reak flair for engaging with an audience. And this is often independent of musical ability

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:02 PM

"real," that is.

wotthehell archy wotthehell. . . .

400

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 10:58 AM

New video

sorry, had to post this.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 11:24 AM

Blackburn west Lothian is a village - not to be confused with the city ...

I am well aware it's not the same place as the township/parish/conurbation/arrondissement/oblast in Lancashire. I've been to the West Lothian one Boyle comes from, not to the other one that you seem more familiar with.

Blackburn (the real one) is a post-industrial shithole surrounded by bings of mine waste with a Third World level of unemployment, the visual appeal of Norilsk and a drug problem like something out of New Jersey. It has as much community spirit as a petrol station at 2am.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM

Not just a flash in the pan?

PreSales at Amazon outsell big names:

Susan Boyle Already Bigger Than Whitney Houston, New Moon & the Beatles

Whitney Houston, the Beatles and Jay-Z ought to step aside. Susan Boyle is the new queen bee of the album charts.

Too bad no one will get to hear her record until Nov. 24.

Britain's Got Talent's undeniable breakout star—whether she won the grand prize or not—is nearly three months from the release of her debut album, yet, thanks to presales, stands at the very top of Amazon.com's best-seller list.

Houston's comeback album, reissues of the Fab Four's classics, Jay-Z's Blueprint 3 and even the soundtrack for New Moon are eating her dust.

Talk about dreaming a dream!

---

Threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Susan Boyle
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

Well you can say what you like (I don't particularly like her) but I think its wonderful what she has achieved in such a short time. Good luck to her.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8378194.stm

I will now wait for the grumps who want to knock her down :-)

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM

It isn't the kind of music I usually listen to but she has a gorgeous voice. I'm thrilled for her!

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:12 PM

Yep, Good luck to the lass.

I know that there are so many excellent performers in the Folk World that never get that opportunity and I can understand if they feel a bit jealous or think that she should have served her trade, but I just think its nice to see somebody who I think was struggling socially to have this happen to her. Gives other people hope.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Acorn4
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:49 PM

In the folk world no one gives a monkeys about what you look like as long as you can produce the goods, so I would think we should all be glad for her because of her proving that image can be secondary to talent.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:52 PM

Well said Acorn

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:04 AM

I think this remark is worth quoting here from the Eddi Reader thread, if only to point out how mean-spirited some of the UK posters here have become:

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Campin - PM
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

...Eddi Reader comes across to me like a Susan Boyle without the mental retardation to excuse the tastelessness.


Inexcusable, IMO.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:12 AM

Agreed. Surprised at Jack, whom have never met but who usually writes much better sense than that, I think. Susan Boyle comes over to me as modest and likeable.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:29 AM

I hope we are not going to see the same situation on this thread that seems too often to be happening on other threads.

Michaelr, I know Jack said that on the other thread and it wasn't very nice, but did you need to copy and paste that over into this thread. It will only fuel the aggro so to speak.

Lets keep this thread sensible and no flaming or attacking individuals on here please, otherwise I will be asking Joe to remove the thread or at least moderate it.

Whilst I am happy for her, I see on the news this morning, that she may not be coping with all this fame. For me that is very concerning, as in a way, she has no control over her own destiny, which I suppose is the price of fame. I just hope that behind all the money involved etc, that somebody is taking a firm grip on looking after her health..

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:58 AM

What she really needs is to be ' discovered ' by Lizzie Cornish.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:29 AM

Michaelr, Jack C is ONE of the UK posters, not SOME, unless he has developed multiple personality disorder. This constant knocking of and lumping together of UK posters is getting pretty tired.

Susan Boyle? Not my cuppa tea, but sooner a middle aged woman who's had a difficult life than a bunch of overexcited teenage gibbons to win these things...

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:29 AM

Lets keep this thread sensible and no flaming or attacking individuals on here please, otherwise I will be asking Joe to remove the thread or at least moderate it.

So no opinions to the contrary or else you'll be petitioning Pope Joe for an excommunication, huh? Well - I always thought Mudcat was a discussion group where people are allowed to think for themselves regarding matters of minority relevance - not some society for the mindlessly mutual adoration of the latest fabricated phoney MOR celebrity superstar, whatever human interest element has been woven into the mawkishly grotesque and sickening fantasy by way reality. Reality TV becomes reality music! Except reality isn't real any more - it's been annexed by the spectacle!

I tell you - it was this sort of diabolically commercialised soul-deadening CRAP that pushed me out of the box as a somewhat desperately inquisitive 12-year-old (circa 1973) thus leading me to the real stuff. It's a journey that continues to this day - and the merest thought that such mind-numbingly manipulative culture-killing so-called music still exists ensures that I remain well and truly out there - where the wild things are, the real things, the truly wonderful things which includes a whole world of human & musical possibility. Hey, and that includes folk - remember that, you guys? Mesmerised as you are by the tinsel-glare of the Susan Boyle image-myth-making marketing super-star machine.

Snap out of it. Keep it real. Here's the antidote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZmJnY6N56M

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:32 AM

Moderated thread, eh? I'm outa here!

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Smedley
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:37 AM

I don't begrudge Susan Boyle her success, and her rise to fame certainly merits attention from any cultural sociologist looking to explore how the contemporary musiic/fame machine works.

She has a very good voice in her genre.

But her genre (which I would define as that hideous middlebrow zone where show-tunes get pretensions of operatic status and pop/rock songs get 'respectabilised' through pseudo-classical singing) is my utterly least favourite zone of music ever.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:49 AM

her singing has got to be better than a lot of the crap that is pushed over the music scene

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Smedley
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:01 AM

Technically better, to some ears, yes. But does it *mean* anything ?

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:17 AM

What a load of snobbish rubbish some of you write.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:38 AM

Hey! My post was missed off in the merger! Never mind; here it is again.

Lets keep this thread sensible and no flaming or attacking individuals on here please, otherwise I will be asking Joe to remove the thread or at least moderate it.

So no opinions to the contrary or else you'll be petitioning Pope Joe for an excommunication, huh? Well - I always thought Mudcat was a discussion group where people are allowed to think for themselves regarding matters of minority relevance - not some society for the mindlessly mutual adoration of the latest fabricated phoney MOR celebrity superstar, whatever human interest element has been woven into the mawkishly grotesque and sickening fantasy by way reality. Reality TV becomes reality music! Except reality isn't real any more - it's been annexed by the spectacle!

I tell you - it was this sort of diabolically commercialised soul-deadening CRAP that pushed me out of the box as a somewhat desperately inquisitive 12-year-old (circa 1973) thus leading me to the real stuff. It's a journey that continues to this day - and the merest thought that such mind-numbingly manipulative culture-killing so-called music still exists ensures that I remain well and truly out there - where the wild things are, the real things, the truly wonderful things which includes a whole world of human & musical possibility. Hey, and that includes folk - remember that, you guys? Mesmerised as you are by the tinsel-glare of the Susan Boyle image-myth-making marketing super-star machine.

Snap out of it. Keep it real. Here's the antidote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZmJnY6N56M

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:44 AM

I suppose if Susan Boyle sang a song or two in my presence, I wouldn't mind. She has a nice voice and style - but her entire repertoire can be performed in an hour or so. I can't see what's left to say about her, but apparently people want to talk - and I can't see a good reason why they shouldn't. The thread started today had the makings of another Mudcat brawl after about three messages, so I moved the whole thing over to an existing thread to water down the nastiness.
This whole Susan Boyle thing bores me to tears.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:49 AM

"This whole Susan Boyle thing bores me to tears."

And me!

Perhaps the long, cold evenings have sapped some people's will to live!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:55 AM

She is currently breaking sales records -   this doesn't make her music significant, but it mnakes *her* significant for those of us who like to reflect upon the cultural/historical/social aspects of music.

I've never criticised those Mudcatters who want to wrangle over the chord sequences on a particular banjo to some old fart's version of 'Froggy Went A Courting' - that's your thing & good luck. But others here, me included, like to look at music's impact as well as its content.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:20 AM

music's impact as well as its content.

The impact of Susan Boyle is but another nail in the coffin of our culture; its only purpose is to make everything the same in order to facilitate marketing.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM

"The impact of Susan Boyle is but another nail in the coffin of our culture; its only purpose is to make everything the same in order to facilitate marketing"

Have you ever heard of Vesta Tilley!! This is not a new thing and if you can sing (as Vesta could to) then why not have your five minutes.

Of course we would like to hear her sing some traditional stuff instead of the songs she is told to sing but heh that's becuase that is what i want to hear, we don't like it when people tell us to sing stuff we don't like either.

Good for her that she has had this success.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:24 AM

"The impact of Susan Boyle is but another nail in the coffin of our culture; its only purpose is to make everything the same in order to facilitate marketing. "

Too gloomy, not least because she so palpably isn't the same as previous artists marketed via the same channels. She isn't Will Young, she isn't Leona Lewis - you can generalise about the techniques of selling being the same, but there remain differences of style & emphasis.

But I don't want to get too Cukltural Studies about it all.......

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:32 AM

"But I don't want to get too Cukltural Studies about it all......."

I wonder what the etymology of culture is? And what relationship it has to 'cult'.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:49 AM

'The thread started today had the makings of another Mudcat brawl after about three messages, so I moved the whole thing over to an existing thread to water down the nastiness.,

Where to, Joe — can't see it anywhere.

---

See? It worked!
But in the thread started yesterday, somebody brought in mental retardation in the sixth message, and Lizzie Cornish a few posts later. Here, they don't stick out and are far less likely to cause a brawl.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:24 AM

I wonder what the etymology of culture is? And what relationship it has to 'cult'.

'Culture' is derived from the latin cultiva

'Cult' comes from (again Latin)cultus meaning worship.

There is no etymological relationship. (apart from their being from the same language)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:45 AM

Cultiva Cultus - I like it!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:02 AM

Cultiva Cultus - I like it!

LOL! It does have something about it, mind.

It would make a great Pantheistic slogan...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:58 AM

Spleen Cringe - note that I didn't say ALL UK posters. But just look at the recent dust-up between SO'P and MtheGM, and you'll see why saying SOME is justified. There are more examples I could find, but it's not my intent to fan the flames, just to hold up a mirror.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:27 PM

MichaelR: Sweeney & I had, as you say, a 'dust-up'; i.e a brief disagreement just between the two of us; now reconciled if you look. I can't feel it just to call that 'mean-spirited' in the same sense as the drawing attention to the comment about Ms Boyle's intellectual capacities on another thread, about which you may recall I agreed with you in the very next post to yours denouncing it; but from which you nevertheless extrapolated the generalisation over which SpleenCringe took issue with you.

You appear to me to be confusing two different sorts of discourse to mount an ill-considered attack on the bona fides of UK posters in general — American ones being invariably sweetness·&·light in their posts, no doubt!?.

You say you were 'just holding up a mirror': are not those who do that liable to catch sight of their own faces?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

Splitting hairs there. Fact is, most of the nastiness here on Mudcat, as well as most of the plain silly nonsense, originates from the UK. I'm tired of it, as are Joe and Max.

This used to be a good forum with many knowledgeable contributors. Now, most of them have been driven away by the vast amounts of crap that appears here. Shame, really.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:20 PM

The simple answer is Moderate strongly with people who can't talk to each other in a civil tongue. Once that message gets out, some of these people will stop posting and come into line.

Michaelr, you didn't help things on my thread by copying over a post by Jack Campin. That was pure shit stirring, so please don't get high and almighty. You are as bad. It caused Joe to stop my thread and merge it with this.

Hey ho, I will get my coat.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM

Splitting hairs there. Fact is, most of the nastiness here on Mudcat, as well as most of the plain silly nonsense, originates from the UK. I'm tired of it, as are Joe and Max.[quote]
I see some fairly nasty things from A Couple OF American contributors,and a couple of American guests, I believe Martin Gibson was an American[who seems to have been banned],Gargoyle is first rate objectionable, and there is one member[American]who is very unpleasant.
I found the clip from Peter Laban[American guest],tasteless and unpleasant.
I am not a fan of Susan Boyles Music,but I wish her every success,she has a good voice,and she is trying to do something creative, fair play to her.

Subject: Susan Boyle and Mudcat
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:09 PM

Surely , whatever the merits of this good lady, her achievements do not belong to a music site dedicated to Blues and Folk.
Mudcat does not need to descend to the-sheep like mentality of the rest of the knobheads who support the T.V. programmes / system control - from which she came.
I try to escape all that shite by reading and contributing to Mudcat.
Joe can you remove such references to Ms Boyle into the "other " batch, but with the acknowledgement from me that (not having heard her sing) wish her every good fortune in her musical career and life in general.
Bless 'er
Betsy

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle and Mudcat
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:19 PM

We've discussed many types of music over the years, not just folk and blues.

Subject: RE: Susan Boyle and Mudcat
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:19 PM

YES !!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:45 PM

I hear she has a single covering the Rolling Stones' Wild Horses' which is getting lots of airplay and is pretty good from accounts of people whose judgement I trust.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:50 PM

Just googled it...pretty impressive interpretation. Good luck to her.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2635301/First-listen-of-Susan-Boyles-new-single.htm

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:52 PM

Hi, Tug, if you look at the links above on this page, you'll see the thread for Wild Horses. I still like her "Cry Me A River" best of what I've heard.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:51 PM

Record-breaking pre-order sales for her on Amazon, I understand. What I find most impressive is that that seems to imply that people are actually shelling out money for her music, rather than just take it off the Web.   I'm not tempted to buy anything by her, but if people are actually buying her music, good for her. I've read somewhere that 90% or some amazing percentage of music these days is not bought but procured through other means.   Sometimes I think Jan and I are the only ones who buy CD's--though it's classical for me and current country for her. Of course I like liner notes etc.   By and large an MP3 doesn't make it for me.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:26 PM

Ron, re what you wrote about mp3's, I'm sad for what young people today are missing - the shared record albums that we would sit around and listen to with groups of friends, passing around the album covers and discussing the illustrations and liner notes. Music was a group bonding experience. Now I see people plugged into their personal ear buds, solitary, alone.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:32 PM

Good point, Alice.   In a lot of ways we were really really lucky to grow up when we did--particularly when pop music was a lot of fun, you could do it yourself without a boatload of electronics---and it wasn't so damn nihilistic as it seems to be now.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:11 PM

There may be some hope. The first thing my grandson did when he turned on the mp3 player we gave him, was to turn to his friend and hand him one of the earbuds so they could listen together. His parents bought him speakers for it, so he can share more easily and it is turning out to be a great way for him to learn lyrics.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM

I remember in 1970 a group of us were camping in brittany. We had a battery operated deck and a collection of records. One of these was the Bridge over troubled Water LP,whichhad all the lyrics printed on the cover. Sitting round the camp with french youngsters joining in the words , reading from the cover,, was a great highlight.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:43 AM

The Sony Walkman came out in 1979! Thirty years ago now, and people have been using some form of personal music system ever since - when *out and about* of course. Most people when at home however, still continue to switch on the stereo - or at least I certainly do.

I have my amp & speakers connected to the laptop, and of course there are docking stations for iPods too, which do essentially the same thing. I don't think anything's really any different than it was.

Kat, you could get your grandson a twin headphone socket and a spare set of ear-phones to go with it, that way if he has a friend round they both get a set. Though it's possibly more sociable to have one ear free for chatter! On my old Sony Walkman, I even had a Mono/Stereo option, which meant when sharing you didn't lose half the music..

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:28 AM

I guess because I am an artist as well as a singer, the LP covers with the illustrations and photos and the liner notes and sometimes lyrics were part of the whole shared experience for me. We'd talk about not only the music but what was on those LP covers. Just not the same now, even with CD inserts. It doesn't seem like a group experience as much as it was back then with those big albums of visuals. I worked in a radio station through college, and the covers had info we dj's would share with the listeners, too.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

One hopes that with a lifetime of singing in her home community that Susan does have a good-sized repertoire. Once the hoopla and the managed stuff has run its course, perhaps Susan will be able to default to her own personal favorites and you'll hear some of the local or folk type songs that have gone unnoticed until now. So much of what people know about Susan is the stage-managed press side of things that emanate from her performance last spring. The "real" Susan may surprise people. I certainly hope so.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:14 PM

That's one possibility.   Another one is that the stuff she has done reflects her own taste also. With her high profile--and, it appears, sales-- there's likely to be another CD.   We'll probably get an answer to this question eventually.   There's no rush.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alice
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:22 PM

I expect she will do a CD of hymns at some time.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

Why are peeps presuming that SB doesn't actually personally like the stuff she sings?

My guess would be that she personally *loves* those show tunes, and why shouldn't she? She told the world yonks ago, that her personal dream is to be the next Elaine Page - which I'd guess, would tend to describe the type of music that she likes.

Anyway, good for her that she got through the psychological troubles she was having before. I hope she does well for herself from the work she's now doing - and it isn't all going to line Cowell's already overburdened pockets!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:15 PM

How many musicians do you know who like only one type of music? She may be enjoying belting out the show tunes, but she may have a good repertoir of church songs, of folk songs, of popular rock songs and torch singer ballads. It will be interesting as it unfolds.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 09 - 11:57 PM

these idiots from Idol and all the people that are supposedly helping Susan Boyle, are all wrong! Why do they think people went crazy over her? To hear her sing wild horses, no no no! here is a list of songs that would be perfect for Susan, you some emotion? and crecendo? yeah!
I BELIEVE
YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE
AVA MARIA
EBB TIDE
MEMORIES
MY WAY
TILL,      YOU HAVE MADE HER INTO SOMEONE SHE IS NOT, SHE PICKED "I
          DREAMED A DREAM' FOR A REASON NOW YOU HAVE HER DOING CRUMMY JAZZ CRAP WITH GUITARS, SHE IS BEAUTIFUL AND EMOTIONAL, LET HER PICK HER OWN SONGS, WITHOUT ALL OF YOU JADED SICKOS, LIKE SIMON!
SINCERELY JANICE DOERGE FISHERMANS LANE MAIDEN NC

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,PL
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 08:58 AM

OK Janice, take a deep breath and read : this thread

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 02:46 PM

Janice, I think that's the best post made on this thread!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 04:25 PM

Looks like we have a newcomer to Mudcat.

Janice, if you'll read through other threads about Susan here, you'll find that we covered a lot of that territory. While there have been detractors, she has a lot of supporters here, who hope she'll be able to let 'er rip and belt out whatever it is she wants to, especially if it compliments her lovely voice and range.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 09:28 PM

I just bought the cd and am thoroughly enjoying it.......I think Wild Horses was terrific. Not a nasty word to say........

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 03:23 AM

I watched the special the other night - she has blossomed and seeing her perform with Elaine Page was magic. Good luck to her, even if Mr Cowell makes another fortune as a result.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 09:12 PM

Wish I had seen that -- I am no musical expert but I think she has a great voice to listen to.

Jaqui - we missed you at Tom's mayoral celebrations (sorry for thread hijack)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:53 AM

That special must have been one broadcast in the UK? Is that where you are now, Jacqui?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:56 AM

It's on YouTube.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Aeola
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

To sing with your idol in front of a huge audience and with all the baggage of nerves etc ( as reported )must be traumatic, but, to carry it off as she did is something special. I'd love to hear her sing some Jazz.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jeanie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:39 AM

I think her singing of "Cry Me a River", in particular, was superb on the TV special last week. She was *performing* (as opposed to "merely singing") with real truth and emotion. Wonderful.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:09 PM

Thank you for posting the U Tube link......that was fun!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 04:25 PM

They should make an album from Susan's TV guide special,

she's so refreshing, it just makes me so happy to see her happy,

she has the voice of an angel - I once her her singing and I

thought it was Celine singing!! The TV special was the best I"ve

seen in a long time.