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Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan

CarolC 27 Apr 09 - 07:01 PM
katlaughing 27 Apr 09 - 07:07 PM
frogprince 27 Apr 09 - 07:41 PM
catspaw49 27 Apr 09 - 07:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Apr 09 - 08:00 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Apr 09 - 08:17 PM
Jack Campin 27 Apr 09 - 08:37 PM
frogprince 27 Apr 09 - 09:13 PM
CarolC 27 Apr 09 - 10:02 PM
oldhippie 27 Apr 09 - 10:03 PM
CarolC 27 Apr 09 - 10:06 PM
katlaughing 27 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Apr 09 - 12:00 AM
Mark Ross 28 Apr 09 - 12:03 AM
Jack Campin 28 Apr 09 - 05:48 AM
catspaw49 28 Apr 09 - 06:48 AM
matt milton 28 Apr 09 - 07:23 AM
matt milton 28 Apr 09 - 07:28 AM
CarolC 28 Apr 09 - 08:22 AM
Uncle_DaveO 28 Apr 09 - 10:23 AM
alanabit 28 Apr 09 - 11:19 AM
catspaw49 28 Apr 09 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Gniklre 29 Apr 09 - 03:14 PM
Phil Edwards 29 Apr 09 - 03:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Apr 09 - 07:05 PM
greg stephens 29 Apr 09 - 07:10 PM
Spleen Cringe 29 Apr 09 - 07:25 PM
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Subject: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:01 PM

This is one of the funniest radio programs I've listened to in a very long time...

http://performancetoday.publicradio.org/?month=4&day=24&year=2009

To listen, go to the right-hand column, currently second from the top, to the program called, Mr. Tambourine Man.

If I hadn't heard it on Performance Today, or had I heard it on April 1, I would have been convinced it was a spoof, like Mighty Wind. I find it even funnier because of the fact that these people are serious.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:07 PM

I couldn't listen to it for very long. I loath that kind of pretentious, self-absorb bs and the song sounded awful. It does sound almost like a send-up...would be better and more listenable if it were!


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:41 PM

Approximate quote: "I don't know if anything like this has been done before, taking the words of an existing song and setting it to different music". Pretentious, self-absorbeded bs indeed, Kat, and by a probably-highly-educated idiot. Watch for at least some "important" critic to gush praise for this. At least it serves to prove that there are worse evils in music than "MOR" (Middle Of the Road).


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:48 PM

A---Dylan has already done the same thing to many if not most of his own songs.
B---When Dylan does it there seems to be less pretentiousness.....a lot less.
C---This guy seems to be a Sondheim wannabee as he has no real particular talent of his own....and I hate Sondheim.
D---He's a dick.....not even a hard-on....just a dick.....

Gawddamn, did that ever suck or what? ("Or What" is not the answer)


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:00 PM

There is a good film on Dylan by Martin Scorsese, "No Direction Home," a portrait of an unusual (and uneven) person, available on 2 cds.
Performances from the 60s included, and some previously unreleased material.

No interpretive jargon, just Dylan, warts and all.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:17 PM

I should add that the Scorsese film costs as little as $8.00 from some companies selling through Amazon.com. A bargain for the 2cd set.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:37 PM

Corigliano is one hell of a fine composer. Why he is setting garbage texts like Dylan's braindead lyrics I can't imagine, but I presume he had some intelligent reason and I guess I'll hear it eventually (the link provided above doesn't work in Firefox).

There's very little free Corigliano on the web (and some terrible performances) but try part of Corigliano's Symphony no. 2.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:13 PM

When a composition is chaotic and discordanent, how (apart from familiarity with it as written) can you tell if it is being performed well or not?


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:02 PM

Am I the only one who found it hilarious? I first heard it while driving, and I could barely drive, I was laughing so hard.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: oldhippie
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:03 PM

I'd much prefer to hear "Desolation Row", but I guess Mr Tambourine Man is okay. Interesting composition.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:06 PM

By the way, the link I posted works in Firefox for me. That's the browser I was using when I started the thread, and I did listen to it using Firefox prior to posting.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM

It worked fine in firefox for me, too.

I tried to listen to the symphony. More pretentious crap of little skill. I've had to play that kind of crap when in orchestra and it is just as bad to play it as to listen to it. There is no skill in "composing" such so-called music.

I am working on the first video of one of my brother's pieces, a tone poem called Ode to the Rockies...when I get it done, I'll post a link. Then you may hear a work of a real, very skilled modern composer who does not sacrifice tonality and does not equate "new" with shock value. It is my hope we will be getting his symphonies done electronically soon, too. Once I get the Ode up, I will be doing more videos using excerpts from his piano works including a medley of themes from his piano concertos that will knock your socks off. When he writes, he doesn't go looking for somebody else's words, either. His Second Symphony was written entirely by him for orchestra, full chorus and soloists. He is working on a opera of the southwest, now, doing his own libretto. He also does all of his own very distinctive orchestration.

If I sound like a bit of a rant, it's probably because I get frustrated at the pretentious ones who are held up as some sort of standard.

Carol, I did see the humour, just couldn't last for listening to it. i'd love to hear the Mighty Wind group do something like it, though. They wouldn't have to stray very far from the truth of this crap, though.

kat


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:00 AM

Ahhh- Yeee - Tyhhee - yo got it yo got it!!!!

So ye be probin ports eh---?

Feellllzz gouuudd

Continue - yeah - yeah - right there.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

one final post to leave a clue - I am late for the salt mine


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:03 AM

The biggest waste of time and money since David Letterman!

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:48 AM

There is more Corigliano on Spotify, though not his symphonies and not the Dylan setting. Try the "Phantasmagoria" pieces.

His Second Symphony left me absolutely floored after I heard it on the radio, not long after the premiere. I immediately phoned someone in the US to see if he could get me a CD of it - I've never done that with any other piece of music.

I why can't quite imagine why Corigliano picked such a godawful piece of pretentious adolescent crap to set to music. In contrast, the tune for "Mr Tambourine Man" is basically not too bad - I presume Dylan reworked something traditional (speed it up and it might be a tune for a children's game).

I still can't listen to that thing on the NPR site. Firefox downloads it but then nothing on my Mac can play it.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:48 AM

I guess he wanted to write additional pretentious claptrap of his own. I am well aware of John Corigliano. I just think his stuff is crap for the most part as I don't really give two shits for most modern symphonic (I hesitate to say classical) work.,,,,,,don't like the Red Violin either.

And yeah, Dylan stole the tune but the JC crap has no "tune." Sounds like he might have written it for Yoko Ono.........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: matt milton
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:23 AM

"pretentious crap of little skill ... just as bad to play it as to listen to it. There is no skill in "composing" such so-called music".

Why is it "so-called music"? It's clearly music.

It's ludicrous to say there's no skill in composing it ? anyone with ears can hear it's clearly very well composed music. And to call it "chaotic" is bewildering - it's not remotely chaotic and is actually very orderly.

Too orderly for my liking actually. Because what's wrong with it is that it's not really contemporary music. It's pre-Darmstadt school romantic modernism. It's actually quite retro. It's music in the same compositional sphere as the more discordant Stravinsky, Shostakovich or Bartok works.

Blimey, if you think that's tough, i'd love to hear what you all thought of Boulez or Finnissy or Richard Barrett or James Dillon.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: matt milton
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:28 AM

Of course, music aside, there's another thing that's massively, glaringly wrong with it, and that's the kitsch that results from setting such overly familiar words to that music. It does indeed sound utterly ridiculous.

Composers from the classical sphere who are self-professedly ignorant about pop culture should steer clear of it - they invariably come unstuck.

If all Corigliano wanted was to set some populist poetry, well, there's enough out there without having to nick pop lyrics.

He could have at the very least tried reading Dylan's "Tarantula" book - at least those are words that haven't been set to music.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 08:22 AM

I think it might be necessary to use a Real One player for this radio program. It might be possible to get it for Mac here...

http://www.real.com/

I not only find the music funny, I find the way they talk about the music funny, especially as it's juxtaposed with the orchestral music playing in the background, and with their impossibly articulated, classical music world word pronunciations (which is doubly funny when one considers Dylan's own extreme lack of articulation in his word pronunciations). And also the bizarre juxtaposition of a very serious sounding musical score with the rather un-serious sounding Dylan lyrics, like this, for instance (sung operatically)...

"How many roads can a man walk down, before you call him a man... yes...

The whole thing sounds like it could be written by the same people who made This is Spinal Tap and Mighty Wind. Take this bit, for instance...

"I wanted to start in the world of someone who doesn't have Mr. Tambourine Man, and who is lost... and then... after that, I begin the theme... and then... suddenly the mood changes and... this person who was so dispirited suddenly says, 'Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me', and all of a sudden the world lights up and we're into the wonderful world of the sixties."

"Blowin' in the Wind is a wonderfully enigmatic piece, because, what it does is, it states many things that people have around them and it says, 'How can you ignore these injustices'. But the answer is not an answer. The answer is..... blowin' in the wind..... meaning..... the answer isn't there, but the question is. "

I think Dylan, himself, would laugh at people trying to explain (and sing) his songs in such a serious manner.

LOLOL


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:23 AM

Spaw, you said,

This guy seems to be a Sondheim wannabee as he has no real particular talent of his own....and I hate Sondheim.

I don't care for what he does with it either, but you're clear, clear wrong when you say "he has no particular talent of his own".

Corligiano is a contemporary big name composer, highly respected. What I've personally heard of his work has been mainly orchestra and violin, but I expect he composes for other musical genres too--I'd bet heavy money on it.

As to Sondheim, I blow hot and cold. He's done some excellent stuff, and then a bunch that leaves me quite cold.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:19 AM

It just sounds silly and pointless to me - as I had expected.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:03 PM

I am well familiar with him Dave....read my second post. I just don't care for him or for the style/idiom......Yeah, he's won awards. I don't care for Red Violin either. If I said he left me cold, that would be warmer than I actually feel.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: GUEST,Gniklre
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 03:14 PM

I...had a really good time listening to this. The lyrics are amazing and the music is really cool.

I don't see that there has to be a particular reason for making something like this. Has it never seemed like maybe a fun idea to take words you already know and put them to music in a different way that you like?

Cause that's what I got out of this. Just really fun.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 03:53 PM

"I wanted to start in the world of someone who doesn't have Mr. Tambourine Man, and who is lost... and then... after that, I begin the theme... and then... suddenly the mood changes and... this person who was so dispirited suddenly says, 'Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me', and all of a sudden the world lights up and we're into the wonderful world of the sixties."

Funny, because when I used to do Tambourine Man I always started with the evening's empire returning into sand ect ect, partly to take the audience by surprise and partly to get myself immersed in the song. I never thought the speaker was either lost or dispirited, just exhausted and a bit zonked ("left me blindly here to stand, still not sleeping"). The other thing about approaching it that way is that to begin with the chorus does nothing, melodically - the melody only resolves at the end of a pair of nagging repeats, when you get to "I'll come following you". It's not a restful song, apart from those few notes. To me it's the sound of someone drifting into a dream after they've been awake all night.

to dance beneath a diamond sky with one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea
Circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate
Driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow








(And then thinking "Whoopee! It's the wonderful world of the 1960s!" Obviously.)


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 07:05 PM

"I don't know if anything like this has been done before, taking the words of an existing song and setting it to different music"

What a very strange thing to say. It suggests someone who must have led a somewhat isolated existence in some respects.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 07:10 PM

Very interesting analysis from many listeners. Load of bollocks, as far as I am concerned.


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Subject: RE: Contemporary Classical Bob Dylan
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 07:25 PM

Couldn't listen to the clip CarolC linked to without having to download horrible realplayer... But Jack, thanks for the Youtube link. Fantastic stuff for just before bedtime. Which is now. He's going straight on my 'things to buy' list. Can't believe he's bypassed me till now!


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