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Tech: Tech: Windows 7

JohnInKansas 30 Apr 09 - 06:02 PM
robomatic 30 Apr 09 - 09:20 PM
JohnInKansas 01 May 09 - 02:11 AM
olddude 01 May 09 - 03:00 AM
artbrooks 01 May 09 - 11:44 AM
robomatic 01 May 09 - 01:55 PM
Bonzo3legs 02 May 09 - 01:48 PM
Joe Offer 04 Jan 10 - 01:21 AM
Bert 04 Jan 10 - 02:13 AM
Sawzaw 04 Jan 10 - 11:48 PM
olddude 05 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM
Donuel 05 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM
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Subject: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 06:02 PM

In BS, since I don't think many will find it of immediate interest and it doesn't relate to anything much one can do now.

One of the main reasons for avoiding Vista has been the inability to run perfectly good programs and use hardware peripherals that weren't supported for Vista.

If you have switched to Vista but have some of that sort of stuff still around, there may be some hope that the coming Windows 7 will let you return to using the good stuff instead of the new hardware you bought to replace it.

Microsoft reveals Windows 7 'XP mode'

Run XP apps in Win 7 using virtual machine
Gregg Keizer
April 27, 2009

The option implied in the headline is slightly wrong, but an "add on" allows you to open a "Virtual XP" machine and install programs that ran in XP. Once the programs are installed using the WinXP Virtual Machine, they'll be "ported to Windows 7" and (Microsoft promises so you know it's true) they will run in Windows 7.

It is noted that the add on will be available only for the three most expensive versions of Windows 7, so if you might consider the new OS it could be very important to be sure that you get a version supporting this feature - if in fact the feature ends up being released. With Microsoft's proclivity for changing names and content in versions of their stuff, careful checking at the time of purchase should be considered critical.

I note that the article uses "programs" consistently, which leaves some ambiguity about whether hardware drivers will be portable by the same method. Our major lossage with Vista was "our best platform scanner" which simply can't be used with Vista, and our "large format printer" that has to use a substitute driver from a different printer that doesn't quite provide all the features available under XP.

The article linked above gives links to blogs where supposedly credible Microsoft (oxymoron?) agents have described the add on. I'm sure I've got a year or two to look for the rest of the story, so I'll read the originals later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 09:20 PM

I'm interested in Windows 7 and other coming attractions such as USB 3.0.

I'm under the impression that one is supposed to be able to run Windows XP apps in Windows Vista via one of its functions telling it to run them as such. I've had indifferent success with doing this, personally.

There are some things that Vista does better than XP, better than Linux, and for all I know, better than a MAC.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 May 09 - 02:11 AM

Vista allows you to choose a "compatibility mode" for older programs but it has only rarely worked for anything I've had. The simplest way to set it up is to install the program, then put up a shortcut on the desktop. If it's a program that Vista identifies as "possibly incompatible," the "Properties" for the shortcut offers a Compatibility tab where you can tell it to "run as for" an earlier Windows version. WinXP had pretty much the same method for older software. Neither worked very well in most cases where you needed it.

The greater problem with Vista was with hardware, since there's no such thing as a "compatibility mode" for drivers. An entirely new, rewritten driver is required for Vista. If the hardware maker didn't provide a new Vista driver, the hardware didn't work.

Both Vista and WinXP had a sort of "compatibility update" feature if you did an upgrade from an earlier version. Both of these would attempt to "salvage" software installed at the time of the upgrade, by "filtering" the existing installation into the new one at the time of the upgrade. It didn't work very well for the upgrade to WinXP, and less well for the upgrade to Vista. About the only thing I've seen that worked with the Vista "upgrade filter" was the ability to automatically preserve Outlook Express email and address books and import them into the "Mail" program that replaces OE in Vista.

OE in WinXP and Mail in Vista are essentially the same program, but OE used a binary "address book" (.wab) and "email" (.dbx). Mail in Vista has an open .csv file for addresses (newly named "contacts") and a somewhat different setup for messages in which each message is more or less a separate .eml file.

The "virtual machine" method for backward compatibility reported in the article appears to be a variation on the upgrade "filter" method used by Vista. You do not run programs in a virtual machine. You start the VM to install the program, and then Win7 thinks it was installed in a former OS, and it's finishing an upgrade, so it attempts to "filter" the program into a form that will run in Win7.

Same old wheel. Different hubcap. The usual used car sales crew.

If it works better than Vista, it's possible that programs that ran in WinXP but didn't run in Vista might - just might - - just possibly might - - - there might just be the possibility that they might - - - run again in Win7.

It would be wonderful if this method allows you to use WinXP drivers in Win7, so that older hardware could be used; but I don't see any real promise of that being the case. The descriptions of the "feature" at this point are vague, and unofficial.

It might be worthwhile to save some old software and hardware, if it's something you liked and you've got a place to keep it, just on the possibility that you might be able to resurrect it by switching to Win7 when more is known. I don't intend to hold my breath while waiting, but may postpone junking the $400 scanner that can't be run with Vista. It might be possible to justify a new OS if I could get the scanner back and get full-featured use of the $360 Super-B printer. (They only make Toys-4-Tots now, so neither machine is replaceable with a "business strength" Vista-compatible machine.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 09 - 03:00 AM

I am a heavy Windows user. But until Microsoft learns to secure their own operating system. I will never be a fan. For some reason we have all bought into this notion that it is the users responsibility to acquire add on products and insure they are maintained and up to date to prevent unauthorized access to the OS components. It is a ridiculous notion actually but we all live with it. Vista by design was a bonanza to the hardware vendors, Microsoft and Microsoft OEM. People had to upgrade their hardware and much of their existing software because their existing platforms would not run with Vista. It was a big pay day.

Myself like everyone else simply has to live with this notion but I look forward to a new release of Windows and I would looking forward to getting the flu .. In the end it costs me a bunch of dollars and usually makes me sick to my stomach during the process.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:44 AM

Well, my c.2003 HP "all-in-one" printer/copier/scanner didn't work with Vista, so I donated it to the elementary school around the corner and bought a new Canon - less expensive and more bells and whistles. Everybody is happy. I guess I'll deal with Windows 7 when it gets here.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: robomatic
Date: 01 May 09 - 01:55 PM


I have similar experience to you with the compatibility mode. My approach however is to consider that the software is dominant to the hardware. Thus, my XP laptop remains my XP laptop and rather than upgrade it to Vista, I purchased a Vista laptop. I've been happy with both purchases and appreciate each unit for what it has to offer, including a certain insurance in case I drop one or one succumbs to infection. Document I care about are stored on external drives.

I'm holding off on putting money into another computer until I can justify it, and without some significant advances in hardware or software, I can't justify it. So I'm paying attention to anticipated developments such as Windows 7, USB 3.0, or Macintosh improvements.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 May 09 - 01:48 PM

I have a 10 year old laptop with a partitioned hard drive. I reinstall XP at the end of each 30 days on the larger partition. This allows me to reinstall demo editions of software for ever - good eh!! The hard drive is just 4.5Gb and the processor is just 400MHz. It weases along but downloads music by bit torrent as fast as my new PC!

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:21 AM

I moved your message from a musical keyboard thread, so I hope you find it.
On the page where you were supposed to enter the activation key, there should be a Microsoft phone number you can call to activate Windows. I called that number when I had trouble activationg XP, and I was very satisfied with the help I got.

You should also be able to get help from Dell.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:13 AM

I hate Vista. It wouldn't let me write to my own files and Microsoft support was no help.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:48 PM

I haven't tackled Windows 7 yet but the XP mode is hardware Dependant.

If your processor allows virtulazation, you can install the 7 virtual software, and then get the free download of the XP Mode software to install on it.

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM

My development platforms are all windows sadly but I am moving more and more to Linux ... I just get tired of dealing with the updates, patches and new releases along with the viruses and such

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Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Windows 7
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM

I just started up 7 tonight. Its good to know I could use the XP cakewalk recording studio software "if my processor allows virtualization?". It sounds hopeful. The last switch over I did caused me to lose all my 3D picture constructs. All the elements were replaced with numbers instead of names of objects so I could not reconstruct most pictures.

Getting our camera picture album and photoshop installed tommorrow will be the first big challenge that I hopw will go well.

Bonzo you cheap son of a gun

Can't you just reset your computer calender.

It would be even better if you could just set it at 1887 for software that will expire in Feb. 2010

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