Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 16 May 09 - 07:19 AM

Just to add - my comment was not a criticism of the website (I haven't used it enough to know), but a kneejerk response to what Richard said about it being hard to find the job description. That kind of thing is the test of a good website though.

Sue

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 09 - 05:54 AM

Anyone who believes that marketing an event comprises of booking the best names and bubbling over with enthusiasm deserves to be given the job. If only to bring them back to earth...

DeG

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:02 PM

Hi Dave, your link into the EFDSS job description has gone tits up can you revive please?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 03:44 PM

I worry about anyone who STILL thinks that "Xxxxx's Joint" is a trendy name.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:58 AM

Apologies for contributing to the thread drift. I hope the EFDSS finds a good candidate for the job. I work for a partnership between the NHS and a small health and social care charity and know that charities a) haven't got a lot of cash to throw around unless they're one of the biggies; b) can often attract skilled people for that kind of money; and c) should and do take a distinctive and different approach to promoting themselves and doing business than both the private and public sectors... thus making comparisons with those sectors slightly off the mark.

Good luck. I wish the job was in the North West!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:33 AM

Clearly the 'us' in the Folkarts England peice Crow Sister quotes refers to all the people making, promoting, listening to and enjoying the music. It's nothing sinister and doesn't imply an excluded 'them'. I'm not and never have been a folkie and have no desire to become one (labels don't really become me...) but have never felt like I've been left out of someone else's party when I've listened to folk music. It's only music.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:22 AM

I love the vitality in your post Crow Sister...but the 'us' part worries me.

The whole point of the last 5/6/7 years or so that I've been raving about this music is that it's NOT the music of a select club. There is no 'them and us', there is only 'we' and the music belongs to us ALL, regardless of accents, gypsy heritage, middle-england villages, bank balances etc...along with all the other inverted snobby ideas that surround the music as being 'ours'.

It's everyone's but somehow, it became 'ours', as in 'yours', not 'mine'. How the hell that happened I've no idea, well..I do, but I'd get told off in this thread for telling you. I'll start a new thread...

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:45 AM

I would say from reading this thread that the shop does need to be reopened. Ideally a place for visiting musicians and dancers to provide daily surgeries / workshops should be arranged.

I would like to see a wider involvement as well. Tourists don't only visit London. The EFDSS should build strong partnership links with the Tourism and Leisure Services of every county in England. There needs to be communication between Education Officer tied to those Tourism & Leisure Services. Of course the local Tourism & Leisure Services need to take a stronger interest and support the tradtional song and dance in their respctive areas, but the EFDSS rep could be the person to push this.

My BA degree (English and Education), experience information/communications (web and print publications)and keen interest in trad and roots music and dance is not enough to overcome age health issues which impair my mobility. I don't think I can cope with the commute and other required travel to do the job properly. Otherwise I would jump on this job.

I hope they get a candidate who will really raise the profile of not only the Society but traditional dance and song in general across the UK.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:27 AM

I'll take that as a "no" then.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:27 AM

".....and so...the music went back to being hidden."

Hardly! Lots of young folk bands emerging now, and young boys and girls picking up on trad English music. And some most interesting left-field folk being created by artistic young bands captivated by traditional folk songs and folk-lore. As Folkarts England say:

"There has never been a better time to get involved with folk music. There are certainly now more people on the stage, in the admin office, writing the reviews and providing back up than ever before. [...]
There are more festivals with bigger audiences, more record labels, more radio stations prepared to play our music. Local & national magazines and newspapers are printing reviews and stories about us and our music, dance and song. Folk is being taken seriously.
Street Theatre and Dancing in the public eye is still a first class vehicle to bring in a new audience and now when they come in, we can deliver a music that has Folk - appeal, is easy listening and is attractive. The likes of KATE RUSBY, SETH LAKEMAN, CARA DILLON, ELIZA CARTHY, BELLOWHEAD, MORRIS OFFSPRING, WHAPWEASEL, and many more are doing this and breaking boundaries all the time."

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:09 AM

Sadly, I've decided to turn this job down.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:07 AM

You'd not drag me over the threshold of the place...sorry mate.

Jim Moray? Nope, I won't go to a gig of his, not until Jim works out that to join in denying Freedom of Speech to people is wrong. It ain't rocket science. He's been taken over by the MM's. very sad.
Sorry Jim, but I'm still fuming over that. I do however, accept apologies that are sincerely meant.

Folknacious, why don't you get yourself a good dollop of humour? I doubt you'd find much of it at Cecil Sharply though..could be wrong of course.

And...as for this:

"...because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about!..."

Wanna bet? I could write things about this music that would make *you* froth at the mouth with rage, but it'd make thousands of people froth at the mouth with eager anticipation to discover a music so beautiful. Sadly, some of those who inhabit, and er..perform at Cecil Sharply, have taken it upon themselves to ensure that I don't get to write about it in the very place that drew more people in than any other, once upon a time.

So, I gave up writing about it.

May I suggest you stick your little head up your little traddie arse and keep your own mouth shut? OR..you could go over to the BBC board and join in the thread I started over there about whether folk music is living or dying, the most popular thread in AGES...sadly, I can't join in, despite starting the bloody thing. But, such is what some of the inhabitants of Cecil Sharply so desire..

Thank oo so much.


Yup, I know Joe..."Lizzie, you're not welcome in this thread any longer"...ad infinitum.

......and so...the music went back to being hidden.

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:54 AM

Lizzie: answer the question. Have you ever been to an event at Cecil Sharp House? Did you go to the Young Coppers album launch, the RVW celebration, Jim Moray's concert in Feb, the St George's Day concert? If not, stop being Queen Of The Dimwit Moaners and go for a long, long swim . . . because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:44 AM

"Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate,"

I haven't seen the ad but if they are asking for someone with a marketing degree, they are probably eliminating about 95% of the most suitable applicants. In 40 years of being associated with marketing I still hardly ever come across anyone with a marketing degree - and the ones that do are mostly still "babbies". If top marketing people do have degrees, it's usually something totally unrelated to their current position, Geography seems to be the most popular for some reason.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:33 AM

"Leveller: Check out this Gibson....Sounds like you have a winner! "


Thanks for that, Guest RnB - same guirtar, same amp and the same sound. Nice isn't it?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:21 AM

"....and, getting back together especially for THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW we are proud to present EQUATION, the Folk Supergroup, starring....yessss..ALL those fabulous Lakeman Brothers, Cara Dillon, Kathryn Roberts and Kate Rusby!

Also, a Special Appearance will be made by Martyn Joseph, just recently returned from yet another Sold Out Tour of Canada!

Buy your tickets fast, because they are selling like Hot Morris Men!"

;0)

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:16 AM

Ah...but you see...I'd open the shop up again..and WHAT a shop it would be!!

I'd also bring in acoustic music to Cecil's Joint..in FACT, that'd be a real cool name for it!

Cecil's Joint...

Sooo much better than the boring ol' Cecil Sharp House..Gee Whizz! I can't think why I've not thought of that before?

Oh poo. Ralph Vaughan Williams, nice chappie though he probably was, is not a very inspirational name for a concert is it? I mean??? Come ON.

'THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW' - starring Show of Hands, Eliza Carthy, Seth Lakeman, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Cara Dillon, Jim Causley,(swoooon) The Demon Barbers, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken...AND...THE OYSTERBAND....brings you music to reach the parts that even the Shropshire Bedlams can't reach!'

Oh yesss....I am sooooo warming to being the new Marketing Directory Lady

:0)

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:04 AM

Has lizziecornish ever been to C#?
No, of course not or she'd have been aware that the shop was shut down, nay dismantled, years ago and that there are not (fortunately) any commercial premises "across the road" that could be used as a "pay-to-play" hangout for overgrown adolescents who think the world owes them a living for playing stuff that should never be allowed across the thresholds of their bedrooms.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:57 AM

Anyone who wants to promote an event featuring these or any other artists has only to hire one of the halls and get on with it. Such a happening would have no bearing whatsoever on the need (or otherwise) for a marketing director responsible for the future direction of the society. Though re-opening the shop might.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:53 AM

On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock.

Bryan Ledgard runs the company that sets the magazine, the journal and some of the books. He does the jobs he's paid to do and also some as a volunteer. He's a highly valued member of the team with excellent design skills and a proven commitment to the work of the society. As far as I know he has no influence in or over the broadcast media production company you mention and they have no connection with or influence over the society.

This thread seems to be reaching the end of its useful life and I have work to do.

Cheers.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:53 AM

So an event like the RVW concert, with Eliza Carthy, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Jim Causley, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken, Mary Humphreys and Anahata and so on, playing to a packed and enraptured house, is the Moaning Minnies stuffing up whoever it is you think they're stuffing up and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend?

Oh really?

Ever been there, by the way? Or are you just guessing?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:33 AM

OOH!   I could do that! :0)

I'd get Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman in, fill the place up with vibrant music and vibrant beings...marketing it would be an absolute doddle!

Oozles of Enthusiam bursting forth all over the place, inspiring those who've never heard of Cecil Sharpley Hoose to come racing to the door!

And as for the shop, well, I could fill that up with posters of the Shropshire Bedlams (swooooon) and Fishermen's Friends (11 swooooons!)
Demons and Bellowheads and all sorts of wonderful stuff...T shirts and car stickers, books and CDs, posters and roasters and things that go bump nonny noo in the middle of the night...

It'd become the most popular attraction in the whole of London City...

But wait...

Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate, or a graduation, save for the graduation in colour from Beige Music to Colourful Music...a Dulux Coloured Plethora of sight and sound, spilling out of Cecile TooSharpley House and out into the bowels of London Town, lighting up the sky!

Nah...best to leave it to the Moaning Minnies to sort out, then it can still be spoken of in hallowed terms and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend....

I'll open a new Folk & Acoustic Cafe, across the road...No Degrees Allowed...where everyone can sing in whatever accent they love best.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:28 AM

On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:18 AM

Diane wrote:

the website seems to be a Smoothops effort

Que?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 07:19 AM

On the grounds that the mag, journal, publishing, instrumental / dance tuition, several festivals and folk directory which all used to be produced inhouse when I was on the staff are now outsourced (the website seems to be a Smoothops effort) or have disappeared altogether, yes I did wonder just a bit what current staff (other than the librarians) actually did. A bit like at the BBC, really.

The then Chief Exec in what was unfondly known as The Goode Old Days was quite adamant that he didn't want the staff to have anything like an encyclopedic grasp of what I (for one) thought we were there for. He wanted us to just do typing and let halls to anyone who would pay. Nevertheless, we provided a comprehensive information service to all who phoned and dropped by the library and shop. Ah, the shop. Such a loss . . .

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Howard Jones
Date: 10 May 09 - 07:09 AM

Folknacious, it's not a question of anti-London snobbery, its simply geography. The side of the EFDSS which gets most publicity is its events, which are all in London. As Johnny pointed out, its main activity is actually in publication, but this gets much less emphasis. My perception of the Society's activities is focussed on events which I can't get to. For that reason it doesn't seem very relevant to me.

Johnny mentions the Take 6 project, which looks fantastic, but the information about this on the website is hidden away under "Education", which is not a field I'm personally interested in so its not somewhere I'd look. Something like that should be trumpeted on the home page.

It needn't cost much to publicise these activities more widely. Getting support from outside the folk world is important, but it's folk enthusiasts who should be the backbone of the Society, yet I know hardly anyone who is a member.

The sooner they get a marketing director in place the better.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 06:51 AM

The EFDSS web site is being completely overhauled right now and the new one will allow staff to do daily updates of the news.

There is a new web shop which went up last week and replaces the one I put into operation when I had the responsibility. The web shop has been a success over the last three or four years. Until last week every sale and delivery notification was reported to me via email and I have a full knowledge of the EFDSS customer base which extends across the globe. That knowledge will obviously fade now as others pick up the reins but I expect he new marketing director will find it a useful starting point,

I can say that with a couple of exceptions, every order was turned round by the staff within 1 working day, which is what web customers expect in this day and age. I see occasional comments on here wondering what the staff 'do all day' - I can answer that - they work exceedingly hard at a mountain of routine work and still find the time to talk to people who ring in with queries about the folk scene in general (sometimes expecting the staff will all have an encyclopaedic of the entire folk scene).

A new full time member of staff with good managerial experience will be yet another positive step forward for the Society, but it won't immediately solve all the problems of a hard pressed charity operating in a recession. The Society will still need volunteers in the House and in the many other supporting roles ( and where we're going to find someone to take over the work of our dear departed friend Malcolm Douglas I really don't know, but it will happen and things will get done - in their own good time).

Folkopedia continues to grow slowly although the number of regular contributors is quite small and we could do with more. Now I've stepped back a bit from the EFDSS governance and am also about to retire from academia I can return to my key projects of Folkopedia, Village Music Project and the Paul Graney audio archive.

Getting back to the EFDSS web site, I've seen it go through 3 major overhauls and the fourth is imminent. Most people accept that maintaining web sites is time consuming and/or costly and there's always a better one around the corner. The EFDSS site is much better than it was and guess what, there's a better one round the corner.

THe EFDSS Folk Shop

Folkopedia

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:53 AM

So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then?

I rarely look at a website (including my own) without thinking how it could be improved.

It probably applies to the EFDSS.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:21 AM

Thank you Dave, I will point that out to a person I know.

Signage outside C#Ho would be subject to planning permission AND all the restrictions normally applied to a listed building. Listing a building may reduce its market value, but thanks to the powers that that is so or the vultures would strip our land of its architectural history.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 09 May 09 - 07:38 PM

So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 May 09 - 06:32 PM

Incidentally, I am told that it is not that easy to find a full job description on the C# site.

I agree not easy - but for "catters I provided a link in my first post.

It's near the bottom of the page.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 09 May 09 - 06:25 PM

Mornington Crescent

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 09 - 06:02 PM

Iinchigeelagh, County Cork.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Alan Day
Date: 09 May 09 - 05:57 PM

I agree with you Diane it is not scary at all around Cecil Sharp House
a lovely area in fact.
Although I would hate to see neon lights and flashing signs,I do think the outside could do with a bit of a smarten up to at least show people what the place is.As for the inside, you go up the stairs and there is the Security Guard sitting behind a big desk. If you have never been there before there is nothing to say what is on in any part of the building,just people wandering about some with instruments some without.
It is a very strange and unwelcoming place. The home however of some fantastic nights. The jive I had during our interval in the Main Hall
was in one of the lower rooms and it was American Swing Night. Half an hour of the most memorable dances I have ever had.
Al

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: GUEST,RnB
Date: 09 May 09 - 05:35 PM

Leveller: Check out this Gibson....Sounds like you have a winner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLBlCTziJYo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2FGregsGuitars&feature=player_embedded

This was the only way I could get this to you, since you were wondering about the 325 in Jan. '09! Hope it was no intrusion?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 May 09 - 03:38 PM

THan where?

Incidentally, I am told that it is not that easy to find a full job description on the C# site.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 09 - 03:23 PM

is it more dangerous than Inchigeela

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 May 09 - 11:50 AM

I'm always puzzled by the rumour that C# is in a scary bit of London when it is actually in one of the poshest. Ursula Vaughan Williams used to live around the corner and Roy Guest was the actual next-door neighbour. There's a bus stop right outside for the 24-hour 274 which goes past any number of stations so there's no need to walk anywhere. If you've left your vehicle in Regent's Park free parking, it goes past theretoo. True, some people object to the 5-minute walk to Camden Town tube, most likely because this involves going down Parkway and realising that the jolly people spilling out of jollier venues have probably had a better time. You could always walk to the equidistant Chalk Farm instead.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 09 - 11:17 AM

John,GoodPoints,
however to fulfil the criteria you suggest,it needs to have good parking facilities,good public transport connections,and be in area where people can feel safe, when they are waiting/or walking for public transport late at night.
I have seen conflicting opinions on previous threads,about its late night suitabilty.
however, I wish EFDSS and the new marketing director,every success.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 09 May 09 - 10:45 AM

Howard.

The events are London based because thats where the venue is. EFDSS doesn't run events outside London because it hasn't got a venue or a budget to do that. It would also duplicate what others are doing anyway.

The national dimension of EFDSS is surely publishing (which is international as well) and partnership projects. The publishing projects are quite well advertised and seem to be attracting steady long term sales. The partnership and education projects are advertised regionally, where they are most relevant, and reported nationally by the means I identified above - leaflet, web, email, magazine, and mailout. As I said, events tend to get noticed more because they get refreshed more. The 2+ year life of the single, high level funded Take 6 project will see scores of events at the House go past during the same period, yet they will possibly impact on the same number of people.

But if you mean a national awareness campaign, banging the drum about our national projects, maybe some people would be in favour of it but as I said, I prefer the quiet approach of putting energy and funds into getting on with it and recruiting long term consolidated support by amassing a portfolio of well completed projects which demonstrate long term strength and commitment. Those projects generate their own support for the society's work but probably more from the general public, children, teachers and local folk animateurs rather than the folk enthusiasts.

The present council and future marketing director may see things differently of course.


Dick.

The House can be a local venue (same as Ryburn 3 Step have local venues) and it can be a centre as well. As a centre it needs to serve a visiting clientele (whether from abroad as suggested by Alan Day, or from the provinces for high profile events like the RVW celebration or from just down the road for a Tuesday workshop, at which point it's just their local venue).

And it needs to make stuff available globally (web shop/mail order, online library catalogues, information services). I don't think that marketing these developing activities is particularly difficult - it just needs a competent person to take on the job - hence the advert.

People seem to be making more of this than it actually is. The society appears to be improving bit by bit and thanks are due to those people who are continuing to make it happen. They have my support.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 09 May 09 - 10:27 AM

I echo GUEST Squiggle's remarks above, and John Adams'. As for EFDSS being Londoncentric, that has never been a bad place to start a national awareness of something in media/marketing terms. Given restricted budgets and finite energies, it's possibly better placed to coalesce things and move them onwards and outwards from there than in places with smaller populations and less national media focus.

Also, although I don't come from London, I do raise eyebrows at the incredible knee-jerk snobbery and antagonism always levelled (not just in Folk) at anything done there, from people in other parts of the country. People who in the meantime - Ryburn, EA, Folkworks etc OBVIOUSLY excepted - are happy to sit on their arses and carp.

I left EFDSS in the late 1980s but have been increasingly thinking of rejoining lately, especially after the blinding St George's gig which I went up to CSH for. Maybe that and this thread has persuaded me it's time.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 May 09 - 10:24 AM

Once upon a time the EFDSS had regional offices in Exeter, Colchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and somewhere or other in the North East. Now it hasn't. There is a long history of arguments that its sole premises should be somewhere other than in Regents Park Road which, no matter how reasonable and apparently justified, cannot even be considered because the place has been rendered unsaleable as a result its listed status.

So, it is where it is but does that matter nowadays? The VWML is online and the shop is long gone so people don't just drop by (or stay all day) but just show up for special events which you can read about on the website or the mag.

What should a marketing director be paid? That could, of course, depend on what (if anything) they actually achieve but if the relatively low sum of £32k were to be paid retrospectively then, obviously, no-one would even start.

Nearly 40 years ago I was paid less than £20 a week. But that was then. Then, the shop was ringing with sounds from instruments and vinyl and the library crammed with musicians nicking tunes and lyrics (or it was when the then Chief Exec was out). Nowadays, well I haven't a clue what they do in office hours but surely a marketing director could get them marketing?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 09 - 09:59 AM

It could be argued that it is a complete waste of 32,000.
The siting of C#HOUSE,means that it could easily be perceived[and clearly is by some] as a london folksong and dance club.
The Marketing director has to over come this and persuade people that it is not,how will a Marketing Director overcome a Geographical location.
[But NW1 is a long, long way from EX34...]
It is also along way from Manchester, Newcastle and Teeside.
Perhaps the marketing director should focus on its convenience for Londoners,and promote that aspect of it.
Sure, what would I know I have only been a professional folk musician for 35 years,and am not an expert on marketing.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 May 09 - 09:28 AM

John, I agree that there's plenty of information from EFDSS, both in the magazine and the website, but it appears to be overwhelmingly London oriented. Ryburn and EATMT are local groups, but EFDSS is supposed to be national. If it's doing more outside London, then it needs to tell us about it. Otherwise, it will continue to seem irrelevant to a lot of people.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 09 May 09 - 08:15 AM

I've always favoured the 'quiet' approach, where you get on with things and people will find you in their own time. It works well for Ryburn 3 Step.

Having said that, there's no shortage of information available in the public domain about what the EFDSS is up to. If you are a member it's fed to you via the magazine and if you're not, it's only a mouse click or a leaflet away. The Society can't make people look at their info but it's there. The events tend to come to the fore as there are lots of opportunities to refresh the information whereas you only get to talk about the longer term work when it starts or finishes - there are not the same opportunities.

With regard to the R3S (& EATMT) comparison, EFDSS is exactly parallel - leaflets, web site, emails, mail outs and get out to talk to people. The difference is possibly that R3S can't grow and EFDSS needs to. There are lots of non folk aware people out there who could benefit from EFDSS education projects and publishing, academic partnerships, etc. etc. A marketing director will need to identify and target the various groups, orchestrate the campaigns and open up new markets - not that I now have anything to do with this area of operations - I've moved on, although I'm still involved with an advisory committee and a couple of projects.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 May 09 - 06:03 AM

"There's loads of stuff happening out there that the EFDSS has a quiet hand in enabling."

I think that's the problem, it's a quiet hand and most people (myself included) simply don't know what the EFDSS is doing away from C# House. If anything, we get a distorted picture because of the emphasis put on the activities at the House.

However, if organisations like EATMT, Ryburn 3 Step etc manage to get their message out, presumably without the help of marketing directors on £32k pa, why can't the EFDSS? That's not to suggest they shouldn't appoint one, it's clearly needed, simply to suggest they should already have been doing more.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 09 May 09 - 05:56 AM

"I am genuinely interested in how much you think it should be. And what the figure ought to cover."

I really don't know enough about the EFDSS to even hazard a guess. If, as a charity, they were looking to generate revenue by the conventional means of mailing their database then an in-the-mail cost of £400-500/000 would be what I would be looking at (depending on volumes).

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Alan Day
Date: 09 May 09 - 04:27 AM

Many visitors come to England to see and participate in our Folk Tradition. Often they ask where they should visit. For Concertina players for example The Horniman Museum offers an outstanding collection.Cecil Sharp House should be catering for this interest with daily events , music and dance demonstrations. This need not necessarily be live. It is a place we should be proud to point people to,we can create the interest, but this should form part of a serious rethink of the building.
I applaud you John you have at least started the ball rolling,let us hope it continues.
Al

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 May 09 - 04:18 AM

I am genuinely interested in how much you think it should be. And what the figure ought to cover.

And of course what you would expect to achieve for that figure.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 09 May 09 - 04:03 AM

I think that the figure that is as important as the salary is the size of the marketing budget itself - and what they hope to achieve for that figure. Those would certainly be the questions I would ask if I was applying for the job to se if their expectations are realistic.