Req: songs about Pretoria Pit Disaster(Lancashire)

Subject: RE: Req: songs about Pretoria Pit Disaster(Lancashire)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 06:03 AM

Dave Dutton (born 1947 in Atherton, Lancashire) is an English actor. He has played roles in many different television series including Heartbeat and The Royal. He has also played eleven different parts in the soap opera Coronation Street, as well as five in Emmerdale. He is a former newspaper reporter, television scriptwriter, songwriter, author of 14 books and ex-front man for comedy folk group Inclognito with Bramwell Taylor and Eric White. Wikipedia

https://lancashireminingmuseum.org/2017/10/22/no-carols-this-christmas-the-pretoria-pit-disaster-21st-dec-1910/
To mark the 75th anniversary of the disaster in 1985 Radio Manchester commissioned a special programme entitled ” No Carols this Christmas ” which told the story through words and music with contributions from The North West sound Archive and local folk artists Bram Taylor and Calico. To listen to the programme click on the link below and press the play button.

More than 100 remember Pretoria Pit tragedy The Bolton News 28th December 2021 https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19811557.100-remember-pretoria-pit-tragedy/
Ex-colliers from across the former Lancashire coalfields observed the anniversary of the Pretoria Pit tragedy, just before Christmas. Former Bolton West MP Julie Hilling welcomed guests to the short ceremony at the memorial stone in Broadway, Over Hulton. Another memorial stands to the victims in Ditchfield Gardens, Westhoughton.

A poem, to the youngest blast victim, 13-year-old Frederick Stanley Houghton, written by Dave Dutton, was read out by Andrea Finney. She also read out 'Sombre Christmas', another reflective poem, later, and Corrie Shelley delivered a song called 'Johnny'. Jim Berry, of the Houghton Weavers, gave a musical performance of The Pretoria Pit Disaster, a tribute to those lost, before wreaths were laid. Another piece of music, again written by Dave Dutton, 'No Carols This Christmas', with Jim Berry and Corrie Shelley giving a duet, rounded off the gathering, with Mrs Hilling thanking all those who took part.

And one more poem by Dave Dutton Mar 22, 2018 https://www.dave-dutton.co.uk/post/the-angels-of-st.-peter-s-square
I've been working in Manchester quite a lot and frequently crossed the area in front of GMex and around St Peter's Square where the Peterloo Massacre took place on August 16th, 1819 when a large peaceful gathering of working class men and women were protesting for the right to have a vote. They came mainly from Manchester and the cotton towns surrounding the city, including, I am proud to say, my own home town of Atherton. It has always been on my mind, since first reading about it many years ago, so I wrote this poem.

THE ANGELS OF ST. PETER'S SQUARE.

It was on the eighth month of the year
A vision I remember clear
The sixteenth day and I will swear
I saw them there. I saw them there
As I sat in St. Peter's Square.
I saw them there. I saw them there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 07:48 PM

raymondcrooke Jan 18, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaf2uCh0Fm0 The Pretoria Pit Disaster (by Dave Dutton) Pretoria Pit

This song was written by Dave Dutton (born 1947 in Atherton, Lancashire), an English actor who has played seven [now eleven!] different parts in the soap opera, "Coronation Street". He has written songs for the folk group The Houghton Weavers, including this one which tells the sad story of the Pretoria tragedy. The tune he used is "Tramps and Hawkers", the same melody Dylan used for "I Pity the Poor Immigrant".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 12:07 PM

Thanks Dave, I can't think of anything, other than perhaps that it would be interesting to know what spurred the writing of this song;

And, perhaps - did they opt for the 'Tramps and Hawkers' tune because of its prior use with other mining ballads?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 05:19 PM

Houghton Weavers, founded in 1975.
Howfen Wakes, released in 1976.
Houghton Weavers today;
David Littler; founder member
Steve Millington; joined in 1996
Jim Berry; joined in 2017. Brother of founder member Tony Berry who died in 2019.
Contact; through website.
Concert; Friday 1st March 2024 7.30pm St Bartholomew's Church, Westhoughton

And here's a mining event, but without the Houghton Weavers;
Saturday 6 July 2024 The Folk Tent at the Lancashire Mining Museum's Lancashire Festival
Astley Green Colliery, M29 7JB just 4 miles from Pretoria Pit, Atherton.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 12:17 PM

I may be seeing the Houghton Weavers next month. Not sure yet. If I do, is there anything I can ask?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 05:50 PM

Reinhard, thanks for this, very useful/interesting to know

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 05:46 PM

Dave, that's a fascinating but grim detail, thanks for sharing.

As a Wiganer, this song drew my interest - all of the locations lie just either side of the boundary between my home town and Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 05:42 PM

Hi Joe, as I say above, I encountered this song - The Pretoria Pit Disaster, as per the name of the thread - on the Houghton Weavers' 'Howfen Wakes' LP (it's the last track on there)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 04:55 PM

An interesting (to me) bit of information is that Pretoria Pit was owned and run by the Hulton mining company, formed by William Hulton who, amongst other things, ordered the Petetloo massacre 100+ years earlier. He was high Sheriff of Lancashire who presided over the hanging of a 12 year old boy for breaking a window! 100 years later his descendants skimped on safety measures resulting in the pit disaster. I'm sure he would have been proud of them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 04:31 PM

What is the title of the song you posted, Black Acorn?

It certainly isn't "Howfen Wakes": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWXECkcme3g

Ah, here's the track listing:
https://www.discogs.com/release/3684931-The-Houghton-Weavers-Howfen-Wakes

I've added all information to the song lyrics from Black Acorn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: Reinhard
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 03:12 PM

The Houghton Weavers' album's record label says the song is by their band member Norman Prince. He is also credited for the tune of two other songs on the album.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 02:48 PM

Does anyone know where the lyrics come from - perhaps one of the Houghton Weavers themselves?

The tune will be familiar to many from another mining song, Tommy Armstrong's 'The Durham Lockout' (though perhaps that is also a tune that he, too, gained from elsewhere?)

Subject: ADD: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Norman Prince)
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 02:46 PM

A bit past the time of asking, but I've just been listening to this on 'Howfen Wakes', the Houghton Weavers' 1976 debut LP for Folk Heritage Recordings. I make out the lyrics as follows:

PRETORIA PIT DISASTER
(Norman Prince)

For come all ye people, listen now
To the tale that I do tell
About the days not long ago
In the year of 1910
The children they lay fast asleep
A-dreamin' of good cheer
And the snow was falling all around
Twas Christmas time of year

As the children lay beneath their sheets
The men did go to work
To feed and clothe their families
From this they did not shirk
They worked down there amongst the dust,
The dampness and the grime
Down at Pretoria Pit it was
That dark and dusty mine

The women they did start their day
To school the kids did go
They laughed and chased with all their friends
As they played there in the snow
Their smiling faces showed us all
How happy they did feel
But the day that lay ahead for them
Would seem to be unreal

At eight o'clock the noise was heard
As far as Bolton town
The workers in the fields, they felt
The shaking of the ground
Not one of them knew what it was
That made their blood run cold
But the feeling, it spread all around
To all, both young and old

From Howfen and from Daisy Hill,
The people they did run
From Wingates and from Atherton
They came from miles around
To see what they could do that day
For the men there on that shift
And they hoped and prayed their loved ones weren't
In on the three-bank pit

The men did dig with their bare hands
While the women knelt and prayed
How many of those boys and men -
How many could they save?
A teenager rescued fifteen
As he dug amongst the slime
And he tried to rescue even more
And he perished in the mine

When all the hours they had gone past
And the final count was made
Three hundred and forty-four were lost
Down in that blackened grave
Three hundred and forty-four were gone
And all those boys and men
Their wives and all their families,
They'd never see again

Now of all the tears that we do shed
And the thoughts that we do hear
Remember one poor mother there
In Wingates she did live
Her husband, he did perish there
Along with her four sons
She lost her family of men
In one short afternoon

Now if ever you feel pity now
And sorry for yourself
Remember all those boys and men
Who died there on that shelf
Remember all those families
Who lost a father dear
In the year of 1910 it was,
At the Christmas time of year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HflHQYShfM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 May 09 - 01:55 PM

refresh

Subject: Lyr Req: Pretoria Pit Disaster (Lancashire)
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 07 May 09 - 01:12 PM

Next year will be the 100th anniversary of the Pretoria Pit Disaster (on the border of Atherton and Westhoughton, Lancashire) when 344 men and boys were killed in a huge undergound explosion. It was the highest death toll in any English mine accident.

As part of a project I am putting together, I am looking for the lyrics of any songs relating to the event (especially, though not exclusively, that by The Houghton Weavers).

Thanks in advance.