Same songs every time?

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:26 AM

Actually, the task of learning new songs is considered to be very efficacious for older brains. Keeping the mind active is a real help in staving off the lessening of brain power that can come with age.

I came to folk music when I was 52, ten years ago. Prior to that I knew very few folk songs, just the stuff we learned at school. Now I try to learn a new song every week or so - walking the beach with the dog, or just around the house. Depending on the song I might get the words down in a couple of days or, as is the case with the song I'm now trying for, Lorena, I'm still working on it after best part of a week.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:35 AM

Fair point Jacqui, and I agree that song learning is good therapy for an older brain. Though when I use the term 'elderly' I don't think of someone in their sixties - more perhaps a person eighty plus. Once upon a time maybe, but certainly not these days. In fact one of my good friends approaching seventy, is currently completing his Phd.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:35 AM

Can't and wont are not the same.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:37 AM

Just realised, I didn't actually use the term 'elderly' - never mind, the Lark Rise to Candleford quote did make me think a bit about my own assumptions though.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 15 May 09 - 09:17 AM

Like Ian Fyvie, I keep a record of the songs I sing and play at Wimborne each week. However, I've a repertoire of about 200 songs that I can just 'do' without needing to refresh my memory and I often find that a song which I assume the audience and/or other performers will be thinking 'oh, not that one again', I've not sung for a year or so.

When I go to clubs other than Wimborne, though, I do have a sort of 'A' list of a dozen or so songs that I know from experience will be well received. Again, I worry that I may have sung the same two or three the last time I was at a particular club, perhaps six or more months previously.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 May 09 - 09:21 AM

I know a bloke who, at the start of each year, types out a list of all his songs, then each time he does one, crosses it off, so as to avoid doing any one've them twice - in a year!!

I don't know if he'd have enough for 2 or 3 once a week - as he'd need between 100 & 200, guess he learns fresh ones to cover himself?

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Tootler
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:07 PM

Over the year I avoided repeating myself I think I learnt around 100 songs, many of them I learnt just well enough to do them during one week and I have since forgotten them. Some I will probably never sing again, because they didn't feel right to me or did not go down too well.

I also regularly play a couple of tunes on my flute instead of singing a song in one of my spots. That seems to go down quite well. It did mean I had to learn quite a few tunes as well though.

At the moment I am aiming not to repeat a song or tune for about 3 months

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:56 PM

Depending on the song I might get the words down in a couple of days or, as is the case with the song I'm now trying for, Lorena, I'm still working on it after best part of a week.

Jacqui, here's some other words if you want to pep it up:

The bytes go creeping by, Eudora
The net has broken down again.
I'll get my mail today, Eudora,
But I'll be damned if I know when

        For the mail comes in as slowly now,
        As when I was on AOL.
        But with the mail that's coming in now
        I think it may be just as well.

The spam comes pouring in, Eudora;
A never-ending siren's song.
If all of it were true, Eudora,
I'd have a Thing ten meters long.

        They sell you stocks and bonds and girls,
        And boys, and condos by the sea.
        I don't know where they got my address,
        But like some old drunk, they won't leave me be.

Peter

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 09 - 07:12 PM

Thats beautiful Peter. sniff.
I'll read it again when the Scotch wears off.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Arkie
Date: 15 May 09 - 09:48 PM

People most likely go to music gatherings for various reasons. Some enjoy the social contact but take the music seriously and take seriously the occasion to play or sing for a group's enjoyment. Others, as suggested by Crow Sister, go to gatherings primarily for the social contact primarily but also might like taking part or even feel obligated to join in the singing. I would suspect those who sing the same songs over and over might not ever sing except when they go to the gatherings. If there are just a few of the repeaters one might learn to tolerate it. If it is in fact driving folk away that is another problem.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 May 09 - 10:29 PM

I think *I* decided to learn more songs in my home town, 40 years ago, when every month one old guy came and did "The Strawberry Roan"...over & over & over.

Now, our local folk group has a 'theme' every month. It gets folks to try to find new songs and stretches the imagination. Some, of course, don't learn new songs as well as others and often don't even LOOK for one till the day of the sing. It's a mixed blessing, but works pretty well for the most part.
I don't add new stuff as often as I used to, but because I DID for years, I can usually dredge up something to fit.

(Richard Bridge said up there ^ that he was introduced this way.. ""This is RIchard, he's one of our singers, we don't know what he's going to do, in fact I don't think we've ever heard him sing the same song twice"."
I was once introduced the same way, and 30 minutes after I finished, I thought of the perfect reply...."Well, you see, a song needs some time to recover after I do it!"... I'm still waiting to use that line publicly.)

I have, as many of us have, been identified with a few songs...mostly silly ones... and I often get asked for them by folks I don't see regularly. I have had to restrict certain ones to once or twice a year. "Mrs. Ravoon" is in that category.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 16 May 09 - 02:07 PM

We're having a nostalgea guest night in June where three regular supporters come back together as the trio they were well known for in the 1990s.

There's a twist also, which could be used in a singaroud theme night. The trio, PJC, will ask other regular supporters who sing to perform songs that PJC request!

Most singers will be asked in advance what they're being requested to sing, but I expect more than one singer who we don't see that often to have this sprung upon them. Should be fun!


Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:02 PM

Peter-

Your "Eudora" song brought tears to my eyes.

Maybe I'll work up a verse inspired by the shift from Verizon to Fair Point Communications, the break-in period for this telemiscommunications giant has been festering for at least 6 months.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:38 PM

Guilty as charged.
Must admit, only know a few, I believe my favourite song gets better each time I sing it, but I would wouldn't I.
Something to do with a comfort zone.
I have learnt another one today which I will expose people to next time I get the chance.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:11 AM

.......similarly with tunes.

I was at a tuney sesh some months ago that I'd not been to for some years & they were still doing the same sets!!

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: GUEST,Guest MikeL
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM

Hi everyone

I can see both sides of this interesting thread.

As an organiser and resident of several folk clubs over the past thirty years or so......!!!! I have performed many times in my own clubs.

When doing so I always tried to learn new material and I usually managed to learn at least a couple a week in the early days.

My format for my clubs at that time was that we had the night split into two halves separated by a half hour or so break.

On most cases I used to open the night whether we had guests or not so I knew all about going on first !!!! My strategy was to always open the night with a song that I considered to be " concert standard". This settled both me and the audiences down. But then I would use some of my first spot to perform songs I was trying to perfect. As a singer/guitarist I always considered it more important to know the words perfectly rather than the accompaniament.

In the second spots I tried to use music that I knew very well that I could perform to as high a standard as I could. I had enough of this material to vary the songs and I am proud to say that I always managed to ring the changes at the same time as being able to do any requests that members asked for.

During this time we had many floor singers - of all standards. We too had the salt of the earth standbys who would get up to help when not many others singers were available.....some of these did sing/perform the same tunes/songs. But I was always glad to use them and I believe that so did 99% of the audiences.

I have also performed as a guest ( most paid ) at many clubs and then it was different I always had a set of stuff that I considered my best - it changed to suit occasions and audiences. So I used to sing some songs more often than perhaps I would have wanted....but hey....the customer is always right !!

Happy music-making

MikeL

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:33 AM

I presume that was me Mr Happy was talking about in May. I've actually got enough on my list "of songs I've forgotten" to do 6 a week and still have a few left over. Apart from stopping me from repeating myself, it means that I'm less likely to forget them completely.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:38 AM

Dave,

Yes 'twas you!

Bring your little list down the Carlton tonight, you can be the mystery gust!

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:27 AM

No doubt he'll be singing "Blow, Boys, Blow", "Ready for The Storm" and "Blowing in The Wind".

Or even "Mandolin Wind"!

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:54 AM

Mr. Happy's comment about tune sessions takes us into a different area. New tunes are nice, but people can't join in until they've been played enough times to get into the brain and out through the fingers. And you go to a music sesion to play.
And most musicians are better than me; but I have difficulty starting off a new tune that no-one is joining in with, when I have all the other tunes ringing in my ears.
I like the old 'lift the roof' standards, dotted through the evening. With the new and fairly new ones mixed in.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:39 PM

The Singer/songwriter tends to do his/her own songs. They repeat them to sell them to audiences. Then audiences want the Singer/songwriter to do their fave songs.

There is an imitative aspect to the contemporary music called "folk" these days that tend
toward "pop corn beat" tedium. The variegated and rich traditions of the world's music always need to be explored.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:42 AM

Stringsinger,

The kind of seshes I generally attend aren't the sort where there's generally a formal audience.

Usually, everyone in the sesh is a participant musician/ singer,any others are listeners/ shaky eggers etc or chorus joining in'ers.

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:46 AM

So its not a matter of 'selling' anything

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: Gervase
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:46 AM

I'm lucky enough to have a repertoire of well-learned and polished songs that will last me a good ten years before I need to repeat myself when I'm singing in public.
I'm unlucky enough only to get about two opportunities a year to sing in public!

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: GUEST,Big Elk
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:55 AM

Different folks, different strokes.

There has to be an awareness that we are all different. Not everyone has the time or the facility to master 2 new songs or tunes a week.

I think that it is acceptable to use crib sheets and or key notes, but only to reinforce that which you already know, as a safety net. However to fumble and stumble through a song that or tune that has plainly not been practiced or even part memorized is to sell yourself and the audience short.

Amateur or pro, to stand up and argue about what you are going to do and what key it's in is an insult to the listeners and fellow musicians. I don't tend agree with Lead Fingers about much, but the "is it me next brigade" and the fumbling etc is unacceptable, why bring an instrument and put yourself up if you are not ready to commit and engage.

At the other end of the scale is the person for all songs (and or tunes) for all seasons, but they all sound the bloody same.

There is no one size fits all solution, nor should we ever seek to find one. However it is fair to ask all those who stand up to consider the audience and to make the effort to use their talents to the best effect possible. It is also right that the audience and fellow singers do not judge too harshly, as only the truly enlightened can see themselves as others see them

Subject: RE: Same songs every time?
From: GUEST,JOHN AND JEAN
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:25 PM

One of the joys of grass roots folk music is variety and a good old sing song

There should be no shame whatsoever if a performer in a sing around gets a few words notes or chords askew

LONG LIVE - LIVE MUSIC - WARTS N ALL

For a paid for performance even I don't expect perfection but mistakes should be minimal

Using the sing around clubs even the bigger named semi professionals should experiment and practice