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English Fair Fund is BNP Front
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Joe Offer Date: 21 May 09 - 03:46 AM Well, Daily Mail Reader is misinterpreting what I said, and so are several Mudcatters who ought to know better. I'm certainly not advocating tolerance of the BNP. I abhor what they stand for. I had a very interesting encounter with a BNP type when Micca and I were riding a bus in London. Since the drunk BNP guy and I had the lightest skin of anyone on the bus, he came looking to me for sympathy as he loudly condemned all the "foreigners" on the bus. I responded, "I am not a citizen of your country, sir; and I certainly don't agree with you." Maybe I should have followed the enlightened example of many of you and called him asshole and motherfucker, but I really don't think that would have done much good. Logic and a bit of wit seem to work much better. One thing about these BNP people - they vote. Every one of them shows up at the polls, in far higher percentages than the rest of us. Calling them "asshole" just inspires their self-righteousness and makes them feel like martyrs for their cause. What good does that do? But if you discuss with them rationally and respectfully, you might just win one or two of them over. So, I ask again - stay calm, use logic, and remain civil. Thank you. -Joe Offer-
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 20 May 09 - 09:27 PM Joe, I don't often disagree with you, but reasoning with the BNP is like reasoning with the KKK. Can't be done. They are a disease, and I have no, repeat, NO common ground with them. Nor will I ever want any. This post IS respectfully submitted. The one prior to this: the asshole from the BNP posing as Mark is much like the Daily Mail reader--coming across as a nice guy. BULLSHIT! Reason with people like this? HOW? Listen to them? WHY? Read their associations: David Duke, Stormfront, KKK . . . . I have NO doubt they are also aligned with the CHP in Canada and the Aryan Nations, et.al. NO. I will NOT reason or enter into discourse with people like that. If management decision is that I have to be NICE to these motherfuckers, ban me. If management decision is that I should go to other threads and not post to this kind, ban me. One of the reasons this trash left before (a few years back) is because my posts were so damned rude. Consistently rude. And they will continue to be with these folks. I don't want their supporters figuring this is a nice comfortable place to attract new recruits. Mudcat is NOT their forum. Maybe it ain't mine, either. I'll abide by your decision. BM |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 20 May 09 - 09:14 PM "GUEST,Daily Mail reader Please keep this debate civil." OK. Kindly go fuck yourself. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Sorcha Date: 20 May 09 - 09:13 PM RACE means homo sapiens....no matter what spin you put on it. HUMAN..... |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 May 09 - 09:09 PM Er - Daily Mail Reader - "survival as a race"? Now just what meaning that you can try to put on that is not racist? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 May 09 - 08:12 PM It also is not helpful to accuse people of "trolling." Trolls are people who try to stir things up for the sake of it, by saying things they know will do that, which they very well may not actually believe. It's mischievous and destructive, especially when it is cruel, which it very often is. People who are genuinely trying to promote racist ideologies, and racist parties are not trolls. Unfortunately. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 07:55 PM Unfortunately these sort of dispicable comments Joe Offer refers to is what can be expected as it becomes ever clearer that BNP are winning hearts and minds all over the Country,expect a lot more of it too as polling day gets ever closer,the opposition here are getting more and more worried. I think I have made valid points, I won't be responding to any provocation here. I know they are decent people, and I know that my views are supported by the vast majority of the British public and the Lord Jesus Christ himself. The other main stream parties are running scared for they now know the BNP have broken the political mould and are on the up and are being listened to by the ordinary people, they are saying what they want to hear. I do hope they keep up the pressure on this sad sad government. God bless you all and good night. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 May 09 - 07:48 PM Normally I'm inclined to sceptical about voting - as the old sayings go, "Whoever you vote for, the Government always gets in" and "If voting really changed anything, they'd abolish it" - but in this particular European election I think the danger of the BNP getting in means that abstaining or spoiling a vote is a luxury too far. The two-fold danger is that, with most people feeling really pissed off about all the big parties, large numbers are just going to stay home - and that at the same time there will be a fair number who are taken in by the lie that the BNP is not in reality a British Nazi Party and who cast a protest vote their way. The combination of a greatly reduced vote overall, and a rise in the BNP vote could mean that they get candidates elected, and this means sizeable financial resources being paid to them, which they will help them build a more dangerous organisation. So the important thing this time is to vote, no matter for whom (no shortage of alternatives), so long as it's not the BNP. Here's a link explaining how the election process works for the European elections European Parliament elections in England, Scotland and Wales. It's worth reading it, because it's not at all like any other elections. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 07:46 PM And no... I will not accepted neo-naziism, even if people do vote for it, for the same reason that among other countries (including India, Nepal)as well as Britain fought against it in WW2, and for the same reason why the Civil Rights movement opposed bigotry and separatism in the 60s, and for the same reason that most of the world deplored Apartheid during the 2nd half of the 20th century. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 07:39 PM See my point 8. The BNP will probably gain seats, not because voters support what the BNP is about, but because they feel disaffected by mainstream politics. - and the fact that the BNP don't have the guts to publicly state their real point of view (see their actions,... not their propaganda) |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 07:32 PM Emma, would you please give your predictions for the June elections. I will be glad to. Do you think people will reject the party ? do you think they will lose seats ? Will you accept the election results in June or stamp your feet ? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Sorcha Date: 20 May 09 - 07:21 PM I simply can't believe anyone in this day and age thinks that skin colour or country of origin MATTERS at all. Blood is red....and if we weren't all the SAME race, we couldn't share blood transufions....DMR, I truly HOPE that someday you need a blood transfusion and the ONLY blood available is from a person of colour! |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 07:15 PM I guess from your comment you are white... (1) Anyone can say what the disaffected want to hear. What makes a difference are the ACTIONS taken by those in power. (2)I do not challenge the right for anyone to vote who they want for, only to vote for the right reasons. As I said in my earlier post, if one wants to vote because they agree with the BNPs neo-nazi standpoint, that is their prerogative, but should only do so if that is what they really support. (3)When the BNP talk about crime, they place attention on crimes carried out by black people, but have little to say about crimes carried out by white skinhead thugs. Policing has to be even handed. (4) All children should have a good education, and that has to include tolerance of people who are different to themselves so that a culture of prejudice doesn't escalate. (5) Fascism is about achieving power by fear and deception as oppose to winning the hearts and minds of the electorate. (se my point 1). (6) I make no secret of being a socialist, I am employed by a worker co-operative and I work with organisations that advocate on behalf of the most disadvantaged, not by turning individuals against each other but campaigning for fairer and more equitable societies. (7) What is the cut off date before and after British people are real. IF you want to go to extreme, join Plaid Cwmru, its arguable that the Welsh are more British than the English have been for over 1,000 years. If by real British- you mean the right skin colour then you have just supported everyones argument against the BNP. (8) I wonder why big businesses don't want to be seen to be associated with the BNP. As for media representation, the BBC broadcasted an excellent undercover expose of what the BNP is about. (7) Toby Lecomber and John Tyndal fine upstanding gentlemen???? Hmm.. by what definition? (8)It is through fear of ignorance of some voters, and a low turnout in the June elections that could get the BNP more seats than they deserve (9) apart from my quip about laxative in cups of tea, I don't think I have said anything uncivil. But between now and the June elections I am doing everything in my power to campaign against the BNP and what they stand for, |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Emma B Date: 20 May 09 - 07:12 PM I do not respond to taunts - only the 'distortions of the truth' (there I didn't call you a l***) you are detirmined to put out here If you have the balls to engage in discussion - post under your own name! |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 May 09 - 07:10 PM ""They do not receive back-handers from big business, they do not receive any fair representation from the media, their fine and upstanding members are relentlessly persecuted - all for what?"" No, they don't get any back-handers from big business. They're pretty handy at dishing out a few back-handers to those who disagree with their views, particularly those with a different skin tone, which is why they are as you put it "relentlessly persecuted". Of course, what you call relentless persecution, others see as pointing out their criminal records, and activities. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 07:09 PM Emma above you said "Muslims in Britain have been the main target of the BNP in recent years" how ? tube stations or public bus bombings ? I think you may have got your facts mixed up. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 07:05 PM Emma B, please tell me how many seats the party are likely to lose in the June council elections ? Come on, put it here so we both can reflect on it in a few weeks time. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Emma B Date: 20 May 09 - 06:51 PM 'The BNP are the ONLY political party which looks out for the real British people.' The BNP constitution opposes any racial integration. Articles in BNP journals condemn mixed-race relationships as "mongrelising the white race". (or as you prefer to call it 'the real British people.') 'The slurs of the lefties above are transparent. People reading this will see we are not knuckle dragger's, but normal people fighting for our very survival as a race. People see just what a fog of lies and distortion you are saying about the BNP.' There is no need for 'slurs' or 'lies' the BNP is condemned as racists by their own leaders statements The BNP may have got 'cleverer' but its real politics remain the same. 'Muslims in Britain have been the main target of the BNP in recent years, although Griffin has by no means abandoned his antisemitism. Early in 2008 the BNP distributed a leaflet in the north west of England, where Griffin will head the BNP list in the European elections, which claimed Muslims were responsible for 95% of the heroin trade. Four BNP activists, including a local councillor, were arrested in November 2008 on suspicion of publishing and distributing leaflets intended to stir up racial hatred.' but 'evenhanded' in hatred too I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the Earth was flat … I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria Nick Griffin 1998 |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: artbrooks Date: 20 May 09 - 06:48 PM It would be interesting if one of the mods with that capability would tell us if all of the "GUEST,XXX" posts come from the same place. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,lox Date: 20 May 09 - 06:48 PM Maybe Mail Reader isn't a satirist ... ... maybe just a real good one ... You don't need to lie about the BNP, you can just go to youtube, or the links on this site, to the videos of Nick Griffin teaching David Dukes followers that if you want to talk about Racial Purity you have to call it identity, and how that is an example of how to sell nazi ideology without selling it out. Then you can Check out the other video in which he denies the holocaust. And those are just the most basic of a vast realm of evidence that they represent a fascist ideology. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 06:36 PM Joe is correct in what he said. I found his comment fair and timely. If you took time to read their policies then you would soon change your views. Why why all this sily fear of the party ? You keep calling people silly stupid names. If a bigot means wanting freedom of speech and being free to vote for whoever I want, then I am a Bigot ! If racism means wanting the police to do their jobs and stop crime, then I am a racist. If being moronic means wanting my children to have a good education, free from politics and sexualisation, then I am a Moron ! If being a fascist means I want democracy at all levels, then I am a Fascist ! If you think your name calling will change my mind, you are wrong. Clearly I am made of sterner stuff than you and this is simply going to stiffen my resolve and make people like me fight even harder for what is right and true. The slurs of the lefties above are transparent. People reading this will see we are not knuckle dragger's, but normal people fighting for our very survival as a race. People see just what a fog of lies and distortion you are saying about the BNP. The BNP are the ONLY political party which looks out for the real British people. They do not receive back-handers from big business, they do not receive any fair representation from the media, their fine and upstanding members are relentlessly persecuted - all for what? Just so that the establishment can continue to wreck our country and line their own pockets. Do any of you honesty think the party will not gain seats in the June elections ? That should keep you quiet. Please keep this debate civil. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Sorcha Date: 20 May 09 - 06:32 PM Joe, I can't believe you said that! You want to 'get to understand' the Aryan Brotherhood too? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Mrs.Duck Date: 20 May 09 - 06:11 PM Since when has inciting racial hatered been 'legitimate'? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 05:57 PM Joe, There is a saying give someone a long enough rope, and they will hang themselves. This happened in the 1930s with the emergence of the Nazi Party. By 1945 they did 'hang themselves' - and after Nuremberg the tribunals helped the process. But look at the human cost it took to get there. The millions who were slaughtered - on the battlefields, the blitz, the concentration camps...... We have to learn from the lessons of history, and be aware of what a group says publicly, and what their true aims are. To give the BNP any hint of legitimacy is dangerous, and diverts attentions from what they really are about. Steve |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Jeri Date: 20 May 09 - 05:49 PM Some people have a pretty high tolerance for racism and xenophobics. I suppose if they didn't, the poor abused souls would never get elected anywhere. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader Date: 20 May 09 - 05:28 PM Well said Joe and very fair of you may I add. The BNP is a legitimate political party. I just tend to ignore them as most do. The critical word here is 'legitimate'. The BNP is legitimate on the basis that we have freedom of association in the UK; it is registered with the Electoral Commission, has certain registered officers and occasionally submits returns. That is what 'legitimate' means in this context. It makes no judgements about the legitimacy of the BNP's opinions - indeed, they are by definition subjective - and only about whether the association meets certain legal requirements. There is an organisation called NAMBLA - that's the North American Man/Boy Love Association. Let us say, for the sake of argument, that NAMBLA form a UK political party. Certainly, there will be an amount of people who aren't interested in man/boy love themselves, but feel that it should be permitted. I'd say that the majority, though, are probably going to be interested in man/boy love. I would say, on the basis of potential harms and risk minimisation, it would be reasonable to bar members of the (putative) UK Man/Boy Love Party from - say - working with children. There is, as we know, an organisation called Hizb ut Tahrir. On the same grounds, we would probably not allow members of that organisation from joining MI5. Democracy comes from the Greek demos and kratein; translated those are people and strength. Democracy is a process, not an arrival point and has nothing to say about what is right and wrong. The party is going from strength to strength I am glad to say. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Emma B Date: 20 May 09 - 05:08 PM 'Good conduct' is one thing but please don't suggest I should try to make contact the KKK and find out what they think and why they think it too. I think I know all I really want to about those whose avowed purpose is white supremacy and who are best known for engaging in vitriolic rhetoric and committing violent acts. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: TheSnail Date: 20 May 09 - 04:56 PM Sorry, Joe, but I don't think you're quite getting the nature of the BNP. Try looking here. I don't think there is much point in trying to "make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it". I understand your appeal for good conduct but this is not just a standard piece of British bickering. These are very nasty people indeed. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 20 May 09 - 03:37 PM GUEST - Mark Cohen (or whatever your real name is), don't worry I wouldn't have allowed the dogs to actually bite, I wouldn't want to have to fork out the money for Netty, Shorty,and Cyril to get THEIR anti rabies injections, and notifying the police, feel free, one of my neighbours is a member of the force and witnessed the encounter, he laughed his face off. So, you know what, GUEST - Mark (or whatever your real name is) I believe I hear you mother calling you, so back in your pram, sunshine. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Joe Offer Date: 20 May 09 - 02:42 PM Please remember that Mudcat is supposed to be a place for civil discussion, even of controversial issues. I realize that the BNP is objectionable to most of us, but these discussions are a chance for us to make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it. Name-calling and personal attacks do not add anything to the discussion. It also is not helpful to accuse people of "trolling." Please refrain from such conduct. Thank you. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 20 May 09 - 02:26 PM I was actually bloody angry when I saw the BNP leaflet on our hall floor the other day. Especially when I spotted the Spitfire and the so-called doctor's so-called comments. But Charlie Brooker's piece in the Guardian cheered me up - for instance "Extremist material of any kind always looks gaudy and cheap, like a bad pizza menu". Right on the button Charlie. I'll just put the link up again to save scrolling up: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/18/charlie-brooker-bnp-racism |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 09:53 AM I've never liked this system, I prefer first past the post with transferable votes, i.e. 1st 2nd 3rd ( as many choices as the voter wishes to transfer, which then arrives at a majority of votes cast for each seat |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 20 May 09 - 08:55 AM Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. Albert Einstein |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Fred McCormick Date: 20 May 09 - 06:06 AM British Mudcatters should be aware that the BNP are standing in the Euro-elections on June 4th. Euro-elections suffer from low voter turn out, and are based on a system of proportional representation. That is a dangerous combination. It can enable extremist parties, whose views are abhorrent to the vast majority of voters, to gain a foothold where they do not deserve one. If you do not want to see the anti-democratic views of the BNP represented in Europe, the choice is simple. Turn out on June 4th and vote for the party of your choice, and encourage everyone you know to do likewise. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 May 09 - 04:09 AM Dangerous Dogs Act But, hey, I suppose posting the Act assumes the BNP can read... |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: mandotim Date: 20 May 09 - 03:12 AM Do I understand correctly Guest Mark Cohen, with what we suspect is a borrowed identity; you have reported my obviously lighthearted comments above to the police as constituting a material threat to an unknown BNP canvasser, who may or may not visit my house? Pip Radish is quite correct; in this case, two separate observations do not constitute any kind of threat. The clue to the lightheartedness is in the second statement; how many dogs do you know with finely developed political instincts? As for the dogs, they both have advanced training certificates, and are under complete voice control at all times. When someone comes to my door, they bark. They have never bitten anyone, nor threatened to do so. Vermin are a different matter. If you have reported the comments, I'll be delighted to answer any police enquiries. I suspect you haven't, and are simply lying like the rest of the BNP scum. If you did, I wonder how hard the police laughed when you put the phone down? Are you familiar with the offence of Wasting Police Time? Tim |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Phil Edwards Date: 20 May 09 - 02:46 AM This is what appears on my screen Pip. "I'm dying to meet a BNP canvasser; I have a couple of terriers, one a feisty Jack Russell with finely developed political instincts..." Not a threat - two statements of fact with a semi-colon in betweeen. "the funniest sight in the world is a BNP canvasser in full flight down the street with three JRs biting at her heels...that'll learn'em to come knocking at my garden gate *LOL* Again, this says nothing about what the commenter would like to happen in future. Hence not a threat. And in any case, the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says nothing about threats. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 20 May 09 - 01:50 AM Who's the folkie? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Cats Date: 20 May 09 - 01:40 AM It is very sad that a known folkie is actually standing for election in one of the Festival towns as a BNP candidate. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: katlaughing Date: 19 May 09 - 11:08 PM Whoa, that doesn't sound like our Mark Cohen! |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 19 May 09 - 09:16 PM The fellow posting as Mark Cohen is one of the 'reasonable' apologists for the BNP. Fuckers are so intertwined they don't know who's shagging whom. They post pretending to be the epitome of gentleness and 'hey, let's talk'. Actually they are vicious bastards who separate themselves in name only from the violence they condone and promulgate. I am sorry to see Dr Cohen's name used in this manner. To guest, MC: kiss my ass, motherfucker. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: frogprince Date: 19 May 09 - 09:11 PM You build a railroad, nobody calls you "Herbie the railroad builder". you build a skyscraper, nobody calls you "Herbie the builder of skyscrapers". But let a guy suck just one cock... |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 19 May 09 - 09:05 PM No different than the British Nazi (aka National) Party. However, we don't vote for the cocksuckers. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Mark Cohen Date: 19 May 09 - 08:59 PM Well Peace they seem pretty popular in the United Kingdom, my cousin over there says a lot of the young guys at his college back them. They are now in a lot more local government centers (councils) than this time ten years ago. What about the Canadian Heritage Alliance ? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: pdq Date: 19 May 09 - 08:54 PM If this is the same (Dr.) Mark Cohen from Hawaii, he has not posted since 5 OCT 2007. Hope he feels welcome in his return.. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 19 May 09 - 08:53 PM Weren't they nationalized a while back, Mark? (The bank, not the assholes.) |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 19 May 09 - 08:51 PM It's as nice as anyone will get from me regarding that Nazi trash. |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Mark Cohen Date: 19 May 09 - 08:49 PM Now Peace, that wasn't a very nice comment "I'm not as eloquent as most of you. I like to keep things brief:FUCK THE BNP! Rotten racist bastards. " BNP Paribas has been in Canada since 1961, they're one of the largest foreign bank subsidiaries operating in Canada. Yes they called in a lot of loans recently including those of the rednecks out in the wilderness, but come on man, is that any way to talk about a respected bank ? |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: Peace Date: 19 May 09 - 08:24 PM BNP membership listMembership backdated to 06. Note in correspondence file Mr Gary Amoroso 2 ...... or payments@bnp.org.uk Upgrade to Family membership 14/2/07 Photographer ... wikileaks.org.uk/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt - 977k - Cached - Similar pages |
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Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front From: GUEST,Mark Cohen Date: 19 May 09 - 08:07 PM Come on Peace, they don't go into isolated woodlands with firehoses looking bears Haha. |
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