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weird capos

GUEST,Bryan 17 May 09 - 12:33 AM
Deckman 17 May 09 - 01:36 AM
Murray MacLeod 17 May 09 - 04:09 AM
Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 04:27 AM
SonnyWalkman 17 May 09 - 05:28 AM
Mallee 17 May 09 - 06:28 AM
Cretzon 17 May 09 - 09:35 AM
Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 04:04 PM
Fossil 17 May 09 - 06:28 PM
open mike 17 May 09 - 07:20 PM
Mallee 17 May 09 - 08:00 PM
Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 10:03 PM
Darowyn 18 May 09 - 11:54 AM
SonnyWalkman 19 May 09 - 04:44 AM
Will Fly 19 May 09 - 05:19 AM
Richard Bridge 19 May 09 - 06:07 AM
Mooh 19 May 09 - 07:36 AM
Mr Happy 19 May 09 - 07:48 AM
PHJim 19 May 09 - 04:08 PM
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Subject: weird capo placement
From: GUEST,Bryan
Date: 17 May 09 - 12:33 AM

I was reading the C shape thread and it brought to mind that i have been seeing some weird and wonderful useage of capos. I can understand using two capos to Tune down a tone or halftone and capo first fret for better action and lower scales. But what about some that depress certain strings and not others. How and why is this done?? anyone used one of these contraptions?? What tunings do they give etc...


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Deckman
Date: 17 May 09 - 01:36 AM

Bryan ... I couldn't help but notice this thread. I can't answer your query excatly, but I sure can share a couple of things I've seen in capo use lately. Last Fall, in Seattle, the great Alice Stuart gave us a concert during which she played with TWO capos at the same time. As I saw her setting it up, I started to think that she must be making a mistake. I soon learned it was NO mistake and she used BOTH capos to great effect.

Then ... a couple of months later, I saw a guy do one song at an open Mike in Seattle using THREE capos at the same time. And all these capos were full capos ... none of the pieces were mising!

I know I'm really old, and I change my habits very reluctantly, but this blew me away.

Kinda reminded me a when we all smoked, 100 years ago, and used to spear our lit cigarettes on the tail end of the high end string while we sang a song. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:09 AM

If you want to sing a song in F#, one way to do it is to use two capos, one covering all six strings at the second fret, and the second (which must be a Shubb) pressing on the first five, leaving the sixth "open".

You then play the chords as if you were playing in dropped-D. You can of course move both capos up the neck to achieve playability in other keys.

You don't need a modified Shubb to do this, it is perfectly do-able using an ordinary 6 string Shubb capo.

That is the only application I can envisage using two full capos.

Three full capos simultaneously ?

I can't imagine the application, unless he was doing as I suggested above and using the third one lower down, for a bit of "patter" (as they say in Glasgow) ...

Or perhaps he wanted a dramatic key change in the middle of the song which could be achieved by releasing one of the capos ?


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:27 AM

Murray, you can also use two full capos to play "drop top D" - it's the same as Drop D but the other way over.




As for partial capos, there are ones that just get the top or bottom string, and ones that get both (but only) the top and bottom strings. I haven't used those but I gather that they are mostly used for "G" related tunings.

You can use a "Third Hand" or "Scott Tuning Capo" to depress any string or strings of choice at any fret but they tend to fall over sideways if you depress fewer than three strings although the bumf with them suggests an Em tuning and an A9 tuning,

The ones, including the Shubb G7, that depress three strings are most useful at the second fret to give an open tuning that is DADGAD but one tone up. I use the Shubb for this a lot. If you have the intonation on your 12-string very carefully sorted and groove the shubb rubber a little for the fat strings, it can be done on a 12-string without putting it out of tune (well, more than usual!) and the big harmonic roar is then most thrilling.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: SonnyWalkman
Date: 17 May 09 - 05:28 AM

Using the Shubb G7 as Richard suggests on the 3rd, 4th & 5th strings at the 2nd fret, does indeed give you DADGAD one tone up (EBEABE) but it allows you to do things that DADGAD doesn't. For one thing you can get notes behind the capo on the 1st and 2nd strings and, if you've got a very flexible thumb, on the 6th string - these allow you to get some interesting chord voicings.

The best thing, however, is that you can use 'normal tuning' barre chords above the capo. This means that you've got access to the 'Is it major or is it minor?' delights of DADGAD when you want to use it, but also the whole library of normal barre chords when you don't. I often mix the two.

You can also use the Shubb the other way round on the 2nd, 3rd & 4th strings at the second fret giving you an 'A' tuning - again, normal barre chords above the capo still apply.

I've spent endless happy hours experimenting with these two tunings (without ever retuning the guitar),they open up whole new worlds.

Tony B


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Mallee
Date: 17 May 09 - 06:28 AM

OK i must see if i can get a shubbg7 it looks like it depresses 3 strings two capos for a barre C major etc and fiddle around. Or detune one tone and a half for DADGAD G7 capo 1st and normal capo 3fret for standard tuning 2 capos. No wonder i am seeing also a number of guitars made with extra frets. I use EADEAE tuning a lot now this IS getting awkward "My brain urts"


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Cretzon
Date: 17 May 09 - 09:35 AM

Have a look at the Capo Museum.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:04 PM

The bestest thing about the "Dadgad one tone up" (ie EBEABE) effect is that you can reach the A on the bottom string while still holding teh B on the A string. Enables some GREAT runs. I've been working on "Famous Flower of Serving Men" today with a fiddler and that run is nigh impossible in true DADGAD.

Next is the tonal palette allowed by the two "D" (oh, all right, E) chords first using the B on the A string and then using the E on the A string - interplaying with the MANY G (oh, all right, A) chords, and the ring you can get leaving some of the middle strings open in the A (oh, OK, B really) chord. There are some other 3 or 4 string A(B)chords too that sound fine on a 12 string.

It enables me as a very mediocre guitarist to sound MUCH better than I am.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Fossil
Date: 17 May 09 - 06:28 PM

See also the thread I started some while ago on 'Partial capos'. It got me some useful information, but mostly I learned to use a partial by just playing my repertoire through and seeing what worked and what didn't - it improves some songs a lot, but not all.

I'd go with Richard on this one - using a partial doesn't make you a better guitar player, but it extends your range and the things you can do and the sounds you can make - besides, it impresses the hell out of people who haven't heard of the technique!


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: open mike
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:20 PM

sterner capo museum
http://web.telia.com/~u86505074/capomuseum/


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Mallee
Date: 17 May 09 - 08:00 PM

try English tuning EADEAE for famous flower of serving men I am sure Martin Carthy used it


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:03 PM

That tuning would not work for me - it would commit too many fingers to the fixed (or nearly fixed) chord and mean a 5-fret stretch to the bottom note of the tune and put the semitone increments of the Phrygian scale also at an awkward stretch. They fall RIGHT to hand (or rather fingertip) using thesplit capo.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Darowyn
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:54 AM

That instant DADGAD trick was a revelation for me.
Just looking at it made me realise that it is a very familiar A6 Steel Guitar tuning.
All my familiar grips, bends, slides, runs and licks were there instantly.
I did find that my Kyser capo did a better partial capoing job than the G7 though.
Thanks to all concerned.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: SonnyWalkman
Date: 19 May 09 - 04:44 AM

I think we probably caused some confusion by referring to the Shubb G7 capo, I'm not certain that that is what it is actually called. The G7 capo is something else entirely that 'looks like a bottle opener designed by Porsche' as Richard Thompson put it. It will do the 'quick' drop D trick (actually 'E') by covering strings 1-5 at the 2nd fret but not the DADGAD trick.

The Shubb is just a shorter version of their standard capo designed to cover just 3 strings, Kyser also make something similar called (I think) the 'Short-Cut'.

Tony B


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 May 09 - 05:19 AM

This is the Third Hand Capo which allows any or all of the 6 strings to be stopped.

I have one and experimented with it a little - you can se and hear it being played on Kelvin Side.

I found it Ok, but I haven't used it seriously since making the recording.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:07 AM

Shubb partial capos including C7 (not G7)


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Mooh
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:36 AM

Maybe a Mud Elf (I am unable) could link this thread up with some/all the other virtually identical threads.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:48 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capo


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Subject: RE: weird capos
From: PHJim
Date: 19 May 09 - 04:08 PM

I've seen (but never tried it myself) a guitarist use a capo to modulate, by flicking it off when the key changes. This fellow used only one capo, but I suppose you could change keys a few times with a few capos.
My brother leaves a capo on the second fret of his twelve string and tunes two frets low. He occasionally will use another capo to change keys. He says his guitar goes out of tune when he removes the "permanent" capo.
A local guitarist has a rolling capo that allows him to change keys quickly during fiddle tune medleys.


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