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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: MGM·Lion Date: 29 Jun 12 - 04:43 PM Just arrived. Beautiful handsome volume. Spent morning reading Steve's excellent synoptic & informative introduction. Impressed! Well done! ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Steve Gardham Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:34 PM Matt, if you want this material you don't even have to put your hands in your wallet, the Take6 and Full English websites (EFDSS) have thousands of these at your disposal, all with tunes and texts, and if you wish you can mix and match to your heart's content. Well said, Foggers. Why worry about what it isn't or might become? Let's just celebrate what it is, a bloody good book and a bargain at that! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: foggers Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:57 PM Ooops that last post was me without cookie! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 29 Jun 12 - 10:32 AM Got my copy last week and like Eliza it is me new bedside book, lovely for that mix of dipping, browsing and more serious study. The quality of the scholarship is superb; good introduction, valuable notes on each song, the singer, the collector, and what is known about its past. For me the book properly contextualises the "core repertoire" with its earliest traceable versions mainly in the broadsides, exploding for ever any lingering romantic notions that this material was purely oral, untainted by popular culture in written formats and descended to us through some mythical rural idyll of happy singing farm labourers (or miserable ones come to that!). It is DE-scriptive (Drawing on meticulous research) rather than PRE-scriptive, so i don't see it becoming the new rule-book on How It Should Be Sung. That would be silly and surely most of us are too intelligent to allow any one music collection (or expert) become the new dictator. For me this book is a feast for the ears, the brain, and the musical soul and does not make any claims to be other than it is: a collection of the MOST collected songs, but with selections of versions that are less well known. It is going to be a near-endless treat to have around! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 29 Jun 12 - 10:02 AM Soldier boy, ya know that comic song that says "Go get the ax; there's a flea in Lizzie's ear." ? Your worries about the book are another example of that kind of fretting. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: matt milton Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:17 AM well, arguably it already was before it was written! In that the authors deliberately set out to compile songs that were "popular": songs that had been noted down and sung many times. I'd be keen to hear some recommendations of some English folk song books that have obscure and unusual/eccentric songs, actually. I think I have enough "core repertoire" song books on my shelves now. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Soldier boy Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:08 AM This book sounds good but I just hope we don't all get 'brainwashed' into buying it as some kind of official 'Reference' and 'BIBLE' of English Folk Song. I just have this terrible fear and sense of doom that such a mighty tome of songs could end up becoming the UK version of the American "Blue book"! Shuddddddder!! Perish the thought!!! Sorry Sharp, I can hear you turning in your grave!!!! May I eat my own tongue and choke to death!!! Sorry folks, please put that horrible notion out of your minds completely and forever till hell freezes over. I never should have ............................................................................................................................................................................................................ |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM All well and good, but it's 608 pages long. Does it meet the first criterion for a successful song book? i.e, Does it stay open when you want it to? Or do you have to wrestle with it? |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: John P Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:52 PM I just received a copy all the way around the world here in Seattle. Very exciting. The small amount I've been able to look through it so far promises many happy hours pouring over interesting tidbits of both song and research. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: matt milton Date: 27 Jun 12 - 06:03 PM "There are probably no songs in there that you haven't heard before, but you won't have heard many of them in these versions." Yes, granted, that's true in quite a few cases. The "Isle of France" song in there is my favourite in there so far: it's a beautiful tune that's very different to the versions I've heard sung by Nic Jones or Jackie Oates. Likewise the tune for "Bonny Fine Horseman" seems to be a fair bit busier and more ornamented than ones I've heard sung. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Tootler Date: 27 Jun 12 - 05:41 PM A great resource. Even if you have heard the songs before it's great to have all the words and tunes plus notes on the songs. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Steve Gardham Date: 27 Jun 12 - 03:55 PM Matt, There are probably no songs in there that you haven't heard before, but you won't have heard many of them in these versions. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 27 Jun 12 - 03:13 PM I'm thrilled with mine. Even the cover is very beautiful, a black-and-white woodcut of a man leading a huge heavy horse. I've been dipping into it at night before sleep, and humming the tunes to myself! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Jun 12 - 02:19 PM Amazon had somehow sussed I was into folk ~ I guess it must be because I got the Bert Lloyd biog thru them ~ so they emailed me with a £10-off offer, which I should have been a fool to turn down I suppose. It's on the way now, they tell me. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: matt milton Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:51 AM Incidentally, the launch party for the book was great fun. Well, Sharps's Folk Club downstairs afterwards was: a real cross-section of a million different styles of singing. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: matt milton Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:51 AM I got my copy of the New Penguin a couple of days ago. Ordered direct from Penguin, via their website. It seems churlish to say so (it is a very handsome book, with a well written intro and great notes and clearly a labour of love), but I feel just ever so slightly disappointed. there just aren't many songs I haven't heard before. I suppose that's because it does what it says on the tin: it is indeed a collection of what I suppose you'd call "core repertoire": the authors deliberately went out to try to compile songs that had been collected many times. I suppose that means I'm "proper folkie" now. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Carole Bannister Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:24 PM Just been reading through the comments about this lovely new book and I have to say, like Eliza it will be a great book to dip into so I can't wait for mine either. There's another book by the same author called "The English Year" Penguin 9780140515541 which goes through all the old customs month by month. "The Lore of the Land" Penguin 9780141007113 is another great dipping into book which lists all the folklore round the country by county. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jun 12 - 01:39 PM Snigger, snigger, snigger.....! Ho! Ho! Ho! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Owen Woodson Date: 03 Jun 12 - 05:50 AM Al. Mudcat is a broad church, as is the revival generally. By and large Mucat members get on because we agree to exchange ideas, information or whatever without denigrating each other's musical taste. I have no idea what sort of music you're into and even if I did and detested it I wouldn't start attacking it on Mudcat. You however seem hell bent on sniggering at the kind of songs which I personally love, and which my working class forebears created and carried down through the centuries. Of all the goddamn cheek. English people singing English folk songs in England. At this rate they'll be flocking down to Cecil Sharp House and studying all those wonderful collections compiled by Sharp, Kidson, Vaughan Williams et al and issuing the stuff on CD under that (to you) highly misleading rubric, The Voice of the People. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:28 AM I agree. Good job, we've got a new book. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Desert Dancer Date: 03 Jun 12 - 01:54 AM There's a time and place for that "discussion" you guys, and this is not it. I'm not sure what is, but this is not it. Cool it. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:44 PM Yes Owen, me and the rest of the English speaking world. Wot a good job. we have the middle classes to protect our wonderful culture. I'm sure it must have been an intellectual like yourself that wrote the Wild Rover - in a 15/16 time signature, arranged for the Lincolnshire bagipes, and sung by one of the folk music greats - whose opinions about folkmusic, we're not allowed to question. Despite the fact that the English people just don't get it. now what are you going to do about it? Change, or abandon folkmusic's links with the class that created it. Dimwits like myself, who really don't get it. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Surreysinger Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:58 AM Well my copy arrived this morning - and jolly nice it is too! Spent too much time leafing through it before getting on to the stuff that was supposed to be on the agenda, but it lives up to the blurb in advance. Lots of interesting introduction notes, and notes on the individual songs, and an interesting collection it is too. I'm looking forward to further examination over the weekend and beyond. (It was also a bonus to find that I was paying £3 less than I had anticipated at the pre-order price. ) |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Owen Woodson Date: 02 Jun 12 - 06:11 AM No. The quotation actually reads "If you're Big Al Whittle you definitely don't get it". |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Matthew Edwards Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:57 AM Steve Bell once drew a penguin folksinger in action! Matthew |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 May 12 - 06:21 AM Its a bit like English folksong. Just because you're a penguin, it doesn't mean you understand it. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Owen Woodson Date: 30 May 12 - 06:17 AM Actually the English Book of Penguin Folksongs. A surprising title, remembering that the only penguins we have here are in zoos, and none of them can sing. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: MGM·Lion Date: 30 May 12 - 05:58 AM No, Al ~~ you are getting confused with the New Folksong Book of English Penguins. Not the same publication at all! ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 May 12 - 04:17 AM Wouldn't it be great if penguins had written loads of folksongs and they brought out a book with them all ion. Classics like:- By gum! I've got cold feet Fish for lunch today Fish on the menu tomorrrow Oh bugger! Fish for lunch again... lets jump in and have a swim I fell for a penguin, name of Seth; but I can't stand his fishy breath |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 29 May 12 - 04:22 PM In case anyone hasn't noticed, Waterstone's who are advertising this book at the highly competitive price of £16-30, are now offering a furth 5% discount until the end of May. The advert keeps appearing on this site, but basically you will just need to enter the promo code HL5486 when pre-ordering. Well, 82p is 82p when all's said and done. Buy a third of a pint that will mate. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Jack Campin Date: 26 May 12 - 03:14 PM A quick google reminded me that Waterstones was one of the first major employers in the UK to pull the plug on the Tories' "workfare" scheme, so they can't be all bad. On the other hand they do sell Amazon's Kindle. I don't have much problem with buying from them, though I've got Blackwells as a better alternative here. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 26 May 12 - 10:22 AM "Waterstones tomorrow, its on their website for £16.30". Sorry, I hadn't seen that one before. I've just checked and that's the h/b version, so a very competitive price. Next Question. Are Waterstones anywhere near as bad as Amazon in terms of how they treat their workers? |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 26 May 12 - 09:35 AM Thank you Jack for bringing this to my attention. I will certainly write to Amazon for their comments. It sounds like a terrible and unethical company that needs bringing to book. Reference to the holocaust though isn't really helpful. I think this is probably a matter that concerns many of us. maybe we need to act together. If the case against Amazon is uncontravertible. I will inform the musicians union - they sell a lot of musical equipment. There will be some way of proceeding against them. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Dave Earl Date: 26 May 12 - 08:14 AM Ordered mine from Amazon Delivery said to be 09/06 Dave |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 May 12 - 06:45 AM Thanks Jack. I've printed the articles off and will be wading through them as soon as feasible. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Jack Campin Date: 25 May 12 - 07:25 PM I'm guessing somebody will have them for sale at Whitby. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Dave Earl Date: 25 May 12 - 07:20 PM Ordered my copy ! |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Jack Campin Date: 25 May 12 - 06:03 PM Here are some of the Amazon stories: treatment of delivery drivers in Scotland inside their Lehigh Valley warehouse Amazon's anti-union strategy attempting to unionize Amazon |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Steve Gardham Date: 25 May 12 - 03:15 PM Hi, Eliza, That's exactly what I've been doing with it for the past week. It's already helped me to trace one obscure ballad I was looking for. Steve |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 25 May 12 - 01:48 PM Thank you to Mudcat, as I wouldn't have known about this book! Have just ordered a copy and it will arrive after June 12th. (Sorry, but I did use Amazon!) I always feel that folk song lyrics are true poetry, and can be read as such even if you don't sing them. It sounds a super book to keep by the bed for dipping into before sleep.. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 25 May 12 - 12:06 PM Carole. The Penguin Book of English Folksongs was originally published in 1959, the editors being A L Lloyd and Ralph Vaughan Williams. It was reprinted/republished several times, my own copy being from the late '60s, most recently in 2009. What's being mooted here is in effect a completely different book. It's much bigger than the original and, from what I can gather, includes none of the songs which were in the original. In other words, the title is just a hook to ensure healthy sales. It will anyway, because I'm going to browbeat and cajole everyone I meet into buying a copy. But not from Amazon. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Carole Bannister Date: 25 May 12 - 12:03 PM Thanks Becky, I shall order it from Waterstones tomorrow, its on their website for £16.30 and available for preorder. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Desert Dancer Date: 25 May 12 - 11:51 AM Carole, it's a new book being discussed here now (aside from the economics of Amazon.com!), "The New Penguin Book of English Folk Song" edited by Steve Roud & Julia Bishop. See links here. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Carole Bannister Date: 25 May 12 - 11:47 AM Forgot to say its a small paperback and part of the book series Penguin did in 2009 called "English Journeys" Hope all this helps. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Carole Bannister Date: 25 May 12 - 11:45 AM Hello there, funnily enough I've been looking at this book only a couple of days ago and I have it right here! ISBN 978014119092 English Folk Songs R.V.W and A.L.L I bought it in Waterstones about 2 -3 years ago. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Jack Campin Date: 25 May 12 - 08:15 AM My employer sells stuff through Amazon that way. Amazon takes a cut on the transaction. There is a very small profit to be made by charging for shipping. It comes to far less income for the seller per unit time worked than even the minimum wage, but that doesn't matter to a charity that's using volunteer labour. Means the volunteers are really working for Amazon for free, though. I think it's pretty disgusting. I'd bet that the workers processing the accounts are in some remote-working centre in the Third World and getting the same sort of wages you get for dismantling brake linings in scrap. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 25 May 12 - 07:59 AM Hyperbole or no, wages and working conditions in the supply industry are pretty horrendous at the best of times. I know because I've worked in it, and for one or two other barbary coast employers. The fact is that the minimum wage falls a long way short of a living wage, and similar can be said of minimum employment rights. And that's before we get on to the subject of what the present government is doing to said employment rights. So if Amazon refuses to recognise trade unions, and generally treats its employees like shit, then I feel a moral duty not to trade with them. Having said that, and re. the "shop front" aspect, I have bought a lot of books and CDs from legitimate traders selling on Amazon for as little as 1p. I don't understand the economics. However, I imagine it's stuff that said traders want to get rid of, and would rather it went to a good home than get dumped. The point is that, although these transactions go through Amazon's books, they don't usually involve Amazon employees, and cannot be any financial advantage to Amazon. Therefore, at the moment, I think I can continue to use the "shop front" with a clear conscience. But I would like to know if other people know otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 12 - 07:51 AM "Didn't I read recently that The Book Depository is owned by .... Amazon?" I heard it was being considered by Abe Books for takeover, but I haven't heard that anything has happened yet. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: Tootler Date: 25 May 12 - 06:59 AM Ordered mine from the Book Depository. Thought I'd try them as my daughter uses them quite a lot. BAW: I think Jack has a tendency to hyperbole, but from what I have heard elsewhere, Amazon are not the best of employers. However their UK operation is bound by UK law so have to pay at least minimum wages and otherwise conform to minimum employment standards. Also a lot of stuff from Amazon actually comes from third parties who use Amazon as a "shop front", so it's worth checking who the stuff is actually coming from. |
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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 25 May 12 - 06:53 AM Jack. I've heard rumours of Amazon's culpability before, but nothing concrete. So if you can supply the details that would be excellent. I too buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. But if the facts are as stated, then they've had the last order they'll ever get from me. |
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