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fRoots magazine and the EFDSS
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Subject: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: johnadams Date: 17 May 09 - 08:39 PM Ian Anderson's editorial in the June 2009 edition of fRoots magazine. There comes a time to stop banging your head against a brick wall and one of those involved me and the English Folk Dance & Song Society at the tail end of 1986. For as long as I could remember, the society had seemed a quaint irrelevance to the larger UK folk world other than in its crucial role housing the collections in the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library. The acronym DEAFASS that Lawrence Heath had dreamed up for our Borfolk cartoon (the Dance Earnestly And Forget About Song Society) had been much too close to the mark. I'd first of all tried helping to change things from within, spending time on the National Executive in the early '80s, but eventually decided to jette l'éponge when meetings always got terminally bogged down in trivial admin matters. The only thing I achieved (along with Mel McLeod who was the only other 'song' person on the NEC) was to secure an EFDSS Gold Badge Award for Walter Pardon. I don't think anybody else on the committee had heard of him, but it was deemed time for a 'song' recipient so it went through on the nod as they assumed we knew what we were talking about. We could equally have proposed Joe StrummerS Anyway, in 1986 there was a legendary and fractious AGM that I wrote up in fR43 under the heading Doom Day At DEAFASS: Fear And Loathing At Cecil Sharp House. The dead weight of the 1950s folk dance hordes had trounced the EFDSS Militant Faction. After it was published - I'm still rather proud of it actually - I got lovely responses from Society elders Ursula Vaughan Williams and the Rev Kenneth Loveless, congratulating me on its savageness: they described the victors in terms like 'grey haired old dodderers' even though they themselves were some decades their senior! Shortly after that I let my society membership lapse, and apart from supporting the activities of the Library under Malcolm Taylor from time to time (and briefly becoming a 'Ceilidh dad' delivering my daughter to Friday night Knees Ups) I have rarely had much contact since. Life's too short. Well, this year I finally renewed my membership and should probably have done so earlier. The Library has gone from strength to strength, the Society has been putting out a number of really good new publications and CDs, their English Dance & Song magazine finally entered the 21st century under Derek Schofield's editorship, Chief Executive Katy Spicer seems to have really got the bit between her teeth and with people like Sam Lee involved in running events and Shirley Collins and Eliza Carthy as new President and Vice-President, the place is humming. Recent exhibitions like those by David Owen and Doc Rowe have given a new vibrancy to the building and two of the best gigs I've been to this year have been in the main hall (I never thought I'd say that!) - Jim Moray's in February and then Sam's mighty St. George's event with Ian King, Nancy Wallace, Olivia Chaney and Mary Epworth pictured from page 42, which may well go down in history as a landmark. Good news! ' Ian Anderson Editor: fRoots Magazine Lord knows what comment this will provoke amongst those who have issues with either or both of these institutions, but I repost it here for your information. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 18 May 09 - 02:30 AM "The only thing I achieved (along with Mel McLeod who was the only other 'song' person on the NEC) was to secure an EFDSS Gold Badge Award for Walter Pardon." Gosh, is that as special as a gold Blue Peter badge? The day I'll believe that the EFDSS is significant in today's folk world will be the day they give a Gold Badge Award to Show of Hands, Kate Rusby and Seth Lakeman. :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 02:42 AM The above was an automatic announcement from a random spam-generating machine that is neither an EFDSS member not a fR reader. Go figure the grounds upon which its author is qualified to comment on an editorial in one on the subject of the other. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 18 May 09 - 03:15 AM The above response (of mine that is) comes from one who found a music so beautiful, years ago, yet has had nothing but personal attacks ever since, purely for also loving the music of some who are deemed 'unacceptable' by many of those within the EFDSS. It also comes from one who has discovered more about the English Folk World than she would have liked. Until they move into the 21st century and realise that the above artists are even more worthy of a Gold Badge Award than Walter Pardon was, I will have no respect for them, nor enter their Hallowed Halls. And until they stop only supporting 'their own' and cease to be like some sort of Masonic Institution, then I will also *choose* to remain an outside. And now, if you'll excuse me I have to go and watch the SoH and Bellowhead film again... ;0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Joe Offer Date: 18 May 09 - 03:19 AM Ladies, ladies!! Please be loving and kindhearted toward each other, since both of you are valued members of this community. I have to admit that Show of Hands, Kate Rusby and Seth Lakeman are a bit too commercial for my tastes - but hey, I have a right to my tastes. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Will Fly Date: 18 May 09 - 03:45 AM Back on topic for a brief moment... If what Ian is describing is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), then it sounds as though the EFDSS is striving to do good works and make itself even more of a player in the traditional music world than before. Which must be good. I would add, with due respect to contemporary and talented musicians like SoH and others, that Walter Pardon was an original, and worthy of special recognition for that reason. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 03:49 AM I am absolutely not a "lady" and am able to choose those to whom I might be "loving and kindhearted" toward. I am here to impart straightforward information. I am a former EFDSS worker (and member till the accounts department screwed up my subscription) and have a whole raft policy issues upon which I do not agree. I am, nevertheless, fully aware of the difficulties faced in attempting what they do on a shoestring. The OP, John Adams, as well as being an excellent musician in many guises, is a longstanding National Council member who has undertaken untiring voluntary work on behalf of the society and its artistic development, which is lately bearing considerable fruit. The fR editorial is recognising that. And what has the second "contributor" to this thread ever done to further the English tradarts? Exactly. Nothing but dimwitted damage. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 18 May 09 - 03:55 AM I'm a lady. :0) Pah, Steve and Phil are way above Walter...They've brought 'the music' to THOUSANDS, tens of thousands actually, and does the EFDSS recognise that? Nope...not in any way. Show of Hands are also helping many young 'traditional' artists up that ladder too. (ducks under table and waits for screeches) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 04:01 AM Peter Bellamy on the importance of Walter Pardon |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 May 09 - 04:04 AM While I am sure that Show of Hands, Kate Rusby and Seth Lakeman do or might find EFDSS facilities - particularly the library - of use and benefit, I am not clear what they have done for the EFDSS (that may simply be that I do not know) nor do I see what their often self-composed materials add to the music that the EFDSS represents. On the other hand, insofar as they interpret and reframe folk music (1954 definition) then they possibly take a part in the folk process, and we await to see if the adoption criterion is satisfied. Insofar as their delivery of the material requires substantial PA rigs and commercial resources it may seem unlikely for adoption to be widely possible. Or, to put it another way, Lizzie, by all means like their output, and listen to it, and even suggest it to others as music to be enjoyed - but try to keep a perspective. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: theleveller Date: 18 May 09 - 04:09 AM "but try to keep a perspective. " I agree, Richard. Those artists can't have done as much for folk music as the Yetties who, quite rightly, have a Gold Badge Award :0 |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Banjiman Date: 18 May 09 - 04:15 AM "Show of Hands, Kate Rusby and Seth Lakeman" Seem to be doing OK without the explicit endorsement of the EFDSS. Do you really think they want a gold badge? They don't really seem to be within the EFDSS constituency. I'll leave others to argue if this is right or wrong..... and I'm sure they will! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 18 May 09 - 04:19 AM "Please be loving and kindhearted toward each other, since both of you are valued members of this community" Forgot to say "Thank You" for that, Joe...xx *Hey, get back to bed, it's 4am over there!) :0) It's time the EFDSS changed the er..constituency then, because to lock out three of the major contributors to folk and traditional music, both in this century and the last, is total madness. IMHO, of course. :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 04:23 AM Anyone who wants concerts featuring these artists at C# House is free to book them, hire a hall there and put them on. Stranger line-ups than that have occurred. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: theleveller Date: 18 May 09 - 04:28 AM I'm bemused about the EFDSS. In the 45 years I've been involved in folk music it has never been a part of the scene as I know it – just some obscure, fusty institution far away in London. So I took this opportunity to try to find out more from their website. Here is their mission statement: The English Folk Dance and Song Society will develop its resources, namely the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, Cecil Sharp House, its professional staff and its members, to: • maintain itself as a centre of excellence for the study, practice and dissemination of traditional English folk song, dance and music; • provide national and local outreach services that enable and increase access; • celebrate diversity and promote equality Which prompts the following questions: Why only traditional folk music and not contemporary folk music (the life blood transfusion that keeps the decrepit and ageing body of folk music alive)? What national access – I've never seen any sign of it where I live? Diversity in what? Well, thanks for that EFDSS – but no thanks. Let's see what happens in the future. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 18 May 09 - 04:38 AM "Why only traditional folk music and not contemporary folk music" Don't get the point of the question with all due respect Leveller. One could just as soon ask why do the EDFSS discriminate against *any* contemporary music, or in fact in fact what about non-British music...? It's just not their remit. And I don't see the need for it to be so. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: matt milton Date: 18 May 09 - 04:42 AM well to answer the first, I don't think in using the word "traditional" the EFDSS were thinking of any kind of contradistinction there - they were simply saying that, er, folk music is what they're about. A quick look at the line-up for the recent St George's Day extravaganza (Wallace, Cheney, King) shows that the EFDSS is very much promoting "contemporary" folk music. As a Londoner, I get a lot out of the EFDSS via events at Cecil Sharp House, though I do appreciate that that wouldn't be the case if I wasn't. Oh, with the exception of a few CDs and books of course. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: theleveller Date: 18 May 09 - 04:53 AM "It's just not their remit. And I don't see the need for it to be so." There seems to be some disagreement about that. I'm genuinely confused. What is their remit? They don't make it clear at all on the website. If they are looking to increase their membership they need to be more explicit about what they actually do. Here's one potential member they have lost until they do that. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 04:53 AM When it comes to taking hall bookings, the EFDSS does not (as far as I am aware) discriminate against any genre of music (though I'd like to assume that they'd turn down a Nick Griffin come-all-ye). Both Song Links (celebrations of English Traditional songs and their American / Australian variants) launches took place there, a session for the British Bluegrass Association, the Paphides / St Etienne series of concerts with 80s "stars" like Stephen Tin Tin Duffy, the Lal Waterson celebration, Robin & Bina Williams at their new-agey. Bengali best and dance from around the globe have all been staged there. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: SteveMansfield Date: 18 May 09 - 05:29 AM I joined EFDSS [for the first time in my life] last year - it was the tune book Hardcore English and republication of the Great Northern Tunebook that made me suspect that, after 30 years of effective irrelevance, EFDSS had actually turned a corner. To reiterate what IAA said in the article quoted in the OP, Derek Schofield has absolutely transmogrified the magazine English Dance & Song out of all recognition - the first time I saw a modern copy I was genuinely suprised it had colour printing and a decent layout, let alone content worth reading, my expectations from previous contacts with ED&S were so low. To this long-time EFDSS cynic it looks like EFDSS has, at long last, stopped being a Stuckist clique arguing about little more than the physical fabric of 2 Regents Park Road and monthly tea-dances in the Harpenden area. Interesting one-off publications and hopefully more to come, a decent quarterly magazine, support for the new initiatives in widening access to the VWML, are all positives in my book and worthy of my money & support. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Ruth Archer Date: 18 May 09 - 05:36 AM As the "What does EFDSS actually do?" question seems to re-surface from time to time, I'll pull up the list which has been printed here in the past, and add some amendments for the past couple of years: Hardcore English tunebook and double CD published in June 2007. "A sort of English O'Neill's. An essential publication." - Paul Burgess, Living Tradition Running Joak, the Gloworms debut CD, produced May 2007 Marrow Bones: English folk songs from the Hammond and Gardener manuscripts, published in July 2007. "A most welcome reprint." - Martin Carthy Traveller's Joy: songs of English and Scottish Trevellers and Gypsies, songbook and CD published January 2007. "The most important book of traditional songs to be published so far this century." - Vic Smith, fRoots. Treble DVD of Sam Sherry, including archival film, photos and biography, published November 2007. The Folk Handbook, published in collaboration with Backbeat Books, 2007 £154,500 Heritage Lottery Fund grant for the Take 6 Project, conserving 6 collections from the VWML and taking some of them into the communities where they were first collected. A Take 6 officer was appointed and the project, finishing this summer, has worked with schools in London, Lancashire and Hampshire, bringing traditional songs back to the communities where they were collected. There will be live events celebrating the work of Take 6 this summer: Folk in the Park, Stanley Park, Blackpool 22 August, 2-4pm, admission free. And at Petersfield Museum, discover your own musical talents at two workshops led by Hampshire folk singer Sarah Morgan. Adult workshop on 12 June, 7.30-9.30pm, and a family singing session on 30 July from 10-12noon. Workshops are free but the museum suggests donations of £5 per adult and £1 per child. To book your place, contact Petersfield Museum on 01730 262601. Plus the Museum is holding an exhibition on local folk song, past and present from 8 to 27 June, in association with Hampshire Record Office. EDS magazine continues to develop as an important and relevant resource for the folk world (as noted by Ian Anderson), including its move to being a full-colour publication. London Links project launched to expand the use of VWML by community groups and individuals, particularly in 3 London boroughs. Part-funded by a £3k grant from the Mercer's Company. Sam Lee, the London Links officer, has been responsible for initiating a wealth of new projects including the What the Folk? series of Saturday lectures and music tuition. EFDSS 75th anniversary events held throughout 2007; RVW event, celebrating the folk song collecting of Vaughan Williams, Oct 2008; Bert Lloyd celebration event, November 2009; St George's Day event, April 2009, featuring new folk artists. Plus a whole programme of regular concerts including artists such as Jim Moray and the Shee. EFDSS-sponsored film screenings, talks and workshops at festivals including Sidmouth and Whitby, 2007 - 2008. Festival sponsorship of activity and showcases of music by young and traditional artists at Cambridge, Sidmouth and Furness folk festivals, 2009. Living Song - A joint initiative devised by the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) and Royal College of Music Junior Department (RCMJD) celebrating the English Folk Song as a living, evolving tradition, and coinciding with the 50th anniversary of Vaughan Williams' death. Young composers and singers from Chamber Choir were participated in a workshop with Sam Lee, EFDSS's London Links Officer, and accessed resources at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at Cecil Sharp House. Three student composers worked directly from source material, just as Vaughan Williams did a century ago, to create new work based on folk melody and text. Performed (alongside Vaughan Williams folk song settings) by RCMJD Chamber Choir directed by Joy Hill in December 2008 at Imperial College, London. There are a number of other projects in the pipeline, including a national Olympics project in partnership with the Joint Morris Organisations which will get hundreds, if not thousands, of children across the country morris dancing. The development of a new national strategy for 2010. Appointment of Katy Spicer, new Chief Executive, and Rachel Elliott 2008. Appopintment of new Director of Marketing, summer 2009 (at which point members of the board will hopefully be able to stop making posts like this!) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Ruth Archer Date: 18 May 09 - 05:41 AM Sorry - I was rushing (as I have work to do - the world won't dominate itself, you know). The Bert Lloyd event was in 2008, not coming up in 2009. And Rachel Elliott is the Education Director. And appointment is not spelled like that. :) Adolf |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Stu Date: 18 May 09 - 05:53 AM I joined the EFDSS a couple of years ago and wanting to give something back I immediately offered my services as a Motion and Graphic Designer free of charge. I even offered to start digitising the library free of charge whilst running my own business so it could be made available online to the everyone for nothing, getting the music out there to the people. In the end, no-one was really interested so I gave up. I can't afford the membership at the moment and it's all in London anyway which makes it more or less irrelevant to us hayseeds out here in the sticks hundreds of miles away who don't have the bunce to make the trip to CSH or the smoke. Anyway - best of luck to the Society, and the magazine was excellent as were the journals and the new national strategy sounds like a good idea. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,Squiggle Date: 18 May 09 - 05:53 AM Two points :- i) Congratulations on a thread derailed by the usual suspects after only one post. A new record score! ii) Paul Davenport also deserves a lot of credit for his stewardship of EDS before Derek, and I agree that the magazine gets better and better. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,guest mattkeen Date: 18 May 09 - 05:58 AM EFDSS is going through an exciting time and , IMO, is becoming increasingly relevant for all the reasons Ruth has outlined and for the ones highlighted by Ian's last paragraph |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 May 09 - 06:03 AM Actually, I think that Ruth Archer's post above is very germane. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: johnadams Date: 18 May 09 - 06:17 AM Actually, I think that Ruth Archer's post above is very germane. That's why it was signed Adolph?? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Ruth Archer Date: 18 May 09 - 06:19 AM "Which prompts the following questions: Why only traditional folk music and not contemporary folk music (the life blood transfusion that keeps the decrepit and ageing body of folk music alive)? What national access – I've never seen any sign of it where I live? Diversity in what?" I can only answer from my own perspective, and am not speaking for EFDSS, but IMHO: Traditional music because we are entrusted with the care and maintenance of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, the most important resource for traditional music in England. Traditional music because, to be honest, there is no other national organisation devoted to the preservation and proliferation of the English tradition - other traditional organisations tend to look at the music and traditions of a particular region. Traditional music because there are lots of people dedicated to the proliferation, exploitation and re-invention of that beast known as "folk", so when we say "traditional", at least we're talking about something with some kind of definable parameters. Havong said that, recent EFDSS events demonstrate that our work may be rooted in the tradition, but is very interested and excited by the opportunities which arise from its evolution and offshoots. Take the recent workshop project which combined morris with contemporary and street dance. Or the St George's Day event, which featured songer-songwriters as well as more traditionally-based material. Being rooted in the tradition simply means you know where you've come from. It in no way limits where you might go. National access: see my note above about the new national strategy, which is something I'll be contributing to in my capacity as a Board member. Watch this space. Diversity: what it says on the tin. EFDSS works with a range of cultural and social groups and acknowledges all of England's traditions, not just indigenous ones. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Brian Peters Date: 18 May 09 - 06:31 AM I've been a member of EFDSS for years, but for much of that time I was paying my subscription in spite of, rather than because of, the activities the society seemed to regard as important. It was always worth it, for me, if only to support and to make use of the Vaughan Williams Library. More recently it's been clear that changes were afoot and that things were actually happening, notably the steady improvement in EDS and - especially - the various publications. On my last visit to the House, to give a lecture in Sam Lee's 'What the Folk' series, I arrived to find Sam leading an excellent singing workshop, Paul Hutchinson teaching a class in the main hall, a number of young people milling around, and exactly the kind of buzz about the place that Ian Anderson described. And can I also put in a word for Sharp's Folk Club, where I've had several good nights. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 06:34 AM My first published work appeared in EDS some time in the mid 60s. Both EDS and I have got better but Tony Wales as Editor was to blame. At that time there were regional offices all over the country. There was a national festival and Bill Rutter was running an international Sidmouth from the Exeter office, Peter Dashwood was in Essex, Sybil Clark in Birmingham, Tony Foxworthy somewhere around Teesside, someone whose name escapes me in Liverpool and Hugh Rippon was seemingly everywhere. That was then . . . no internet, no mobile phones . . . everything done with paper and stamps. Do those who bemoan the lack of local offices (even if they and resulting staff costs could be afforded) really think they are necessary? No-one is entitled to criticise unless that first understand what the EFDSS is for, then join it and contribute to changing it into what they want it to be. Me? I can't at present be arsed. But I've been there and tried that. I know the mountains that need moving. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: theleveller Date: 18 May 09 - 06:42 AM Ruth, thanks for your enlightening posts. I now have a much greater understanding olf what EFDSS is all about. Little of this comes through from the website which, as the only readily accessible means of gaining information, is woefully inadequate. Let's hope that whoever gets the new Marketing Director job will rectify this and get the information needed to increase membership out to us in the sticks, especially what benefits those of us who seldom visit London can expect for our membership fee. BTW, I'm not trying to knock the Society, merely trying to discover its relevance to myself and my appreciation and interpretation of the genre. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Ruth Archer Date: 18 May 09 - 07:19 AM That's understandable, Leveller. A lot of information about what the society does is disseminated through EDS, which of course you only receive as a member, or if you buy it at a festival. The new Director of Marketing will be a very welcome addition to the Senior Management Team, as without that post, the society has simply not had the resources to publicise its achievements and objectives meaningfully. Hopefully a sound, well-executed national marketing strategy will attract lots of new members. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Sandman Date: 18 May 09 - 07:52 AM And can I also put in a word for Sharp's Folk Club, where I've had several good nights. I too have had enjoyable gigs there, But as I understand it, the folksong club,does not have any connection with EFDSS,apart from using the building. I dont think it receives any funding from EFDSS, Unless it gets the use of the room for free. as far as I know EFDSS is not involved in the organisational [booking policy or administration]of Sharps club. Dick Miles |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Borchester Echo Date: 18 May 09 - 07:57 AM Sharp's is run by an EFDSS staff member. I've no knowledge of whether any door receipts are used to pay for hire of the bar room but I don't think so. As I've mentioned more than once, anyone can hire a room at C# House and promote just about anything they like. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Howard Jones Date: 19 May 09 - 04:26 AM I joined EFDSS some 30 years ago, because I felt I ought to support it. In those days the DEAFASS stereotype was dead right. It was not interested in song at all. I visited C# House a couple of times, and found it was like the Marie Celeste but less lively, and with a poorly stocked shop selling dance manuals but very few albums. I stuck my head in the library, but with no specific objective in mind and complete absence of human assistance I got nowhere. The magazine was awful and the Journal too academic for my interests at the time. I let my membership lapse and haven't been near EFDSS (organisation or building) for years. Like many in the folk world, I was generally well-disposed towards it, thought it should exist, but felt it actually did nothing for me or the music I was interested in. I've recently rejoined on behalf of an organisation, principally for the insurance, and discovered a reinvigorated organisation and a much better magazine. As I now live in t'North, I am still to be persuaded that it is anything more than Camden Town Folk Club but Ruth's reply above suggests that it may be addressing this and becoming more visible outside London. The website needs work to put over to non-members who don't get EDS what the Society is doing and to encourage them to see it in a new light. I suspect there are many others like myself who would be surprised how it has changed. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Vic Smith Date: 19 May 09 - 05:12 AM Howard Jones wrote I've recently rejoined on behalf of an organisation, principally for the insurance I joined for the first time recently, citing the great improvement that the society has undergone during this century. However, if I am totally honest it was also a way of obtaining Public Liability Insurance whch I am finding that I am increasingly being asked to present at gigs these days - though it is a very grey area in deciding whether venue, promoter or band could be held responsible for any mishap at an event. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 May 09 - 06:10 AM Thread drift - if you use electric gear PAT testing can be a considerable cost. I am told that the PAT testing machine is cheap and that with it one can get registered to PAT test things, and so PAT oneself and save £25 testing fee per item (and that includes EVERY lead...) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Folkiedave Date: 19 May 09 - 06:30 AM I would read that insurance very carefully Vic and make sure it is what you need. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: melodeonplayer Date: 19 May 09 - 08:56 AM Lizzie said "Pah, Steve and Phil are way above Walter...They've brought 'the music' to THOUSANDS, tens of thousands actually, and does the EFDSS recognise that? Nope...not in any way. Show of Hands are also helping many young 'traditional' artists up that ladder too." Lizzie, with the greatest of respect, it never ceases to amaze me at your ability to shoot yourself in the foot. There are many hundreds of performers who should receive awards/gold badges for their services to folk music. But your constant bleating about SOH, Seth and Kate does absolutely nothing. Apart from, possibly causing the said artists great embarrassment. I cannot speak on their behalf, but knowing all of the mentioned artists as friends, i think i am safe to assume that your comments do cause a certain amount of consternation amongst them. I joined the EFDSS last year for the first time, because of the very obvious changes that are taking place within the society. I was recently involved in a Morris/Contemporary Dance project at C# House that was initiated by the society. From my perspective it was one of the most enjoyable, foreward looking projects i have ever been involved in. I still have reservations about certain issues involving EFDSS but was persuaded that being a member was important and that my voice might be better heard and taken more seriously from within. It is very easy to knock decisions made by the EFDSS but it is a democratic organisation that can be changed by its membership. So i suggest that if you disagree with their decisions, you join and make your voice heard. Cheers Simon Care |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: The Sandman Date: 19 May 09 - 09:07 AM I wish the EFDSS every success,I hope that they are able to acheive their aims,that they can continue to promote the song and dance of the UK.Dick Miles http://www.dickmiles.com |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Stu Date: 19 May 09 - 09:29 AM "Thread drift - if you use electric gear PAT testing can be a considerable cost. I am told that the PAT testing machine is cheap and that with it one can get registered to PAT test things, and so PAT oneself and save £25 testing fee per item (and that includes EVERY lead...)" You're being ripped off mate. My wife got her stuff PAT tested and didn't pay £25 for each lead. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 19 May 09 - 09:46 AM Yikes!! Simon! You've been EFDSS'd! This is SERIOUS!! I'll send the boys round immediately to lauch Operation Care and get you out of there! (LOL) Look, remember Batman! He used to recite his three times table backwards to ward off the brainwashing, it worked EVERY time.. Robin! WHERE ARE YOU????? Hang on Simon, I'm a-coming! Meanwhile..do this! 12 x 3 is 63 11 x 3 is 45 10 x 3 is The Albion Band 9 x 3 is Miranda 8 x 3 is Kate 7 x 3 is Seth 6 x 3 is Walter (noooooo Simon, come back to the light!) 5 x 3 is John Jones 4 x 3 is the rest of The Oysterband 3 x 3 is Martyn Joseph 2 x 3 is Otley Folk Festival 1 x 3 is SHOW OF HANDS!!! Simon...I think you might just make it after all... ;0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,guest Date: 19 May 09 - 10:34 AM Horrified that such a good and gentle man is being made a fool of. Lizzie, do some research. Like what you like, but do not denigrate. http://folkopedia.efdss.org/Walter_Pardon |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 19 May 09 - 10:44 AM And the thing being, that without these old singers, there'd be NO SoH, Seth or Kate. No traditional folk song = no revival = no modern folk following in it's footsteps... Like it or not, the modern folk scene all stems from traditional singers. It wouldn't exist without them. Such modern folk bands, I'm sure, would readily acknowledge the great importance and significance of their 'roots'. I don't know Seth or SoH, but I know that Kate sings trad. songs. None of which would exist at all without the likes of Walter. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,Songthrush Date: 19 May 09 - 11:19 AM I find myself very upset by Lizzie's dimissal of Walter Pardon and by association all the other traditional singers and musicians that I have respected and venerated over the past 40 years. I don't know Seth Lakeman or Show of hands but I suspect that they too are very embarassed by her lack of understanding, knowledge and respect. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: theleveller Date: 19 May 09 - 11:27 AM "And the thing being, that without these old singers, there'd be NO SoH, Seth or Kate." It's true that: "If we have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" But it is also because we aren't gazing at our navels. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: Spleen Cringe Date: 19 May 09 - 11:46 AM Walter Pardon singing Dark Eyed Sailor must be one of the most sublime moments in the history of recorded English folk music. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: George Papavgeris Date: 19 May 09 - 11:47 AM I owe a lot to English folk music, more than just my songwriting roots; my use of the English language, honed through listening to those old songs and old accents; my lifelong friend and partner, whom I met at my first folk club; and a huge circle of friends. All along I have venerated the giants theleveller refers to, and just over a year ago I also took up a subscription to EFDSS, just as a way of showing my support and allegiances. I am pleased that new blood is coming into the EFDSS with Eliza's and other arrivals, and I have taken note of the new concerts being organised at C# House with approval. I like SoH and am envious of Steve's writing - along with that of Jez, Les, the Cornish writers, Dave Webber etc etc etc - there are too many. I like Seth too - gets a bit much after 30 mins, but I am pleased he's pulling in the young'uns. Jon & John I think are truly special, together and individually. And there are no/few voices better than June's and Bob's, in my book. But I would put none of them next to Walter of Fred. One day, perhaps - we'll see. But not yet. There are dues to pay, and simple commercial appeal or pulling in the young'uns is not enough to pay such dues. So, sorry Lizzie - I think the comparison of SoH and Seth with Walter was both untimely and unfortunate. I have no worries that Walters reputation can withstand it, but Seth's and SoH's could suffer from it, and they don't deserve that. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,Chris Murray Date: 19 May 09 - 12:09 PM George, I do love you - you're always the voice of reason. Sadly though, I don't think it will end here. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and the EFDSS From: GUEST,guest Date: 19 May 09 - 12:12 PM Lovely post George. Thank you.
-Joe Offer- |
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