Err, 'Folk-Opera'?

Subject: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:19 AM

This weekend I heard Maddy Priors Arthur the King.
Though is is a bit 'Robin of Sherwood/Enya' it's far more evocative and musically creative IMO. And I'm thoroughly surprised at just how much I like it. Customer reviews on Amazon aren't so hot, but the fRoots review reads far better.

It's like a prog-folk-mythic-opera or something, all themed around the story of Arthur.
Never having heard a (for want of a better term?) 'Folk-Opera' before of this ilk, I'm quite curious to know if there is a genre of this kind of folk-musical production?

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:23 AM

While there was Peter Bellamy's Transports, which was original songs written in a sort of "folky" style.Very much part of the current folk revival. The granddaddy of them all was John Gay's ballad-opera "The Beggar's Opera". That was original lyrics set to popular/folk tunes of the day(Early 18th century).

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:45 AM

I enjoyed "Transports", though it's not something I would listen to casually. One needs to sit down with the notes and pay attention.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: theleveller
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:52 AM

Richard Grainger wrote 'Eye of the Wind' a folk opera about Captain Cook and the voyage of the Endeavour. It was narrated by David Attenborough and is probably available on CD somewhere.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:53 AM

On Sunday's TV program about Handel there was quite a bit devoted to the Beggar's Opera. There is re-working of it due soon (the songs are updated in instrumentation and style) with Phil Jupitus as McHeath and including the Unthank sisters.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:04 PM

"The granddaddy of them all was John Gay's ballad-opera "The Beggar's Opera". That was original lyrics set to popular/folk tunes of the day(Early 18th century)." (GS)...e.g., another GS, "Greensleeves."

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray)
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:12 PM

Jon Boden had a thread about this a while back:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=114329&messages=38

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:18 PM

The Stirrings in Sheffield

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:37 PM

Ah, cheers for the links. Incidentally has the Wicker Man been staged, I'm assuming it must have??
Would simply adore to work on some kind of masqued folk/ballad-opera type production, so many interests pooled together...! >sigh<

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 12:52 PM

The Wicker Man is currently being developed for next year's Edinburgh Festival, I think. I was talking to the director at Padstow. He is also working on the Rime of the Ancient Mariner at the Southbank Centre with Bellowhead:

The Wedding

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Stewart
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:05 PM

David Maloney performs a one-man "folk opera" the Great Blight (book and lyrics by Rick Foster and music by David Maloney). I saw him do this at Northwest Folklife in Seattle several years ago. It was first performed at Summerville School in Tuolumne, California on October 25, 1999, and since then at many venues around northern California.

The story involves a young Irish lad who falls upon hard times during the potato famine, travels to Canada aboard a "coffin ship," makes his way down to South Carolina where he helps manage slaves on a large plantation and then hears their singing. David weaves his singing of folk songs around this story line. It is very effective.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Diva
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:08 PM

Just been reading a bit in the LT about "The Navvy's Wife"...name of composer had just gone from the brain (appologies) I think its a cracking idea

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ernest
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:08 PM

Lets not forget Tom Russell`s "Man from God knows where"!

Best
Ernest

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:37 PM

"He is also working on the Rime of the Ancient Mariner at the Southbank Centre with Bellowhead:"

Sounds magical...!
I'll keep that one noted for future ref.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:39 PM

It sounded amazing, actually. It's on 4 July.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:00 PM

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point to doing "The Wicker Man" in Edinburgh when we've already got the Beltane Fire celebrations.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:32 PM

It's a stage production based on the film, Jack.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:41 PM

I worked that out - but I can't see any stage production matching the Beltane Fire for spectacle.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:47 PM

'Folk-' is applied in so many ways that a question mark appears in my mind when I see that word used as a prefix.
Much of what is called 'folk' is faux, e. g. the 'calypso' popularized by American groups, along with much of the performance-oriented 'folk song' of the 1950s and later. Based on folk it may be, but it has been revised for a rather sophisticated audience- good entertainment and important as an introduction to folk, but pre-digested.

Some writers have called the opera "Porgy and Bess" (George Gershwin, DuBose and Dorothy Heyward and Ira Gershwin) a 'folk-opera'. The Library of Congress in an article on the MS score says the song "Summertime" from the opera has "achieved the status of a folk song "(words Dubose Heyward, music Ira Gershwin).
The opera does incorporate the idioms of blues and jazz but the product is the work of professional writers and composers, although the Heywards were very familiar with the subjects that they fictionalized.

(Digression and blatant recommendation- The Glyndebourne production with Willard White and Cynthia Haymon on DVD is the only complete version of the opera on film or disc; a remarkable production and the full three-hour composition which often is presented in shortened versions).

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:58 PM

"I can't see any stage production matching the Beltane Fire for spectacle."

Ummm, I'm not sure it's really trying for the same vibe...

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:59 PM

Wicker Man struck me as essentially a Carry On film.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:01 PM

The new production has bought the rights to the original film script, but they are interpreting it quite differently for the stage. I was quite excited by it!

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: stallion
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:15 PM

Just a note on Porgy and Bess, mudcats Charlie Noble had a nanny who played in the original when it was called Porgy he might have an opinion, i think it was the vernacular music of it's day and maybe we might consider it folk music now.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: GUEST,Jeff Parton
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:20 PM

I perform a one-man "folk opera" (for want of a better term) called "Going for a Soldier", words by Denzil Dudley, set at the time of the Napoleonic Wars. (Available on CD!)

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:22 PM

Porgy and Bess was based on the music and dialect of the Gullah people of the Georgia Sea Islands.


"In the summer of 1933 Gershwin went to Folly Island in So. Carolina to live with the very primitive Gullah Negroes. This was the setting for DuBose Heyward's novel Porgy. Gershwin wanted to get a hands on experience of their existence, most especially their form of 'rhythmic shouting' during church services.
He attended their services religiously and became a first class shouter himself. There was no running water on Folly Island, no electricity - a far cry from his Manhattan mansion. Later he was asked why he did not use existing Negro spirtuals in Porgy & Bess. He commented that he wished the entire body of work to be of one fabric, therefore he wrote the spirtuals himself. He called the music an American 'folk opera'."

- Greer Firestone

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:34 PM

"Tolpuddle Man"

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: irishenglish
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:06 PM

I think most of Maddy's albums are more song cycles than folk operas, although I'm basing that on her previous ones like Ravenchild and Sheath and Knife, since I don't own Arthur The King. Transports will always be the first one I think of, but as no one has mentioned Babbacombe Lee yet, I will (even though its a folk rock album).

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Hawker
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:23 PM

Cornwall Songwriters' The Cry Of Tin, Unsung Heroes (The Lost Gradeners Of Heligan) and Cornish Lads are I guess what could be termed 'Folk Operas'
You can catch 'Cornish Lads' at Chippenham Folk Festival at The Cause on Saturday afternoon 6pm I think, and Tiverton Festival on Sunday evening.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:50 PM

Mention of Peter Bellamy reminded me that 'The Widows Uniform' was done as a stage show. And very good it was too! Not sure if you would get the full effect from just listening to the CD but worth a try.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: GUEST,allan
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:32 PM

The King of Elfland's Daughter by Bob Johnson and Peter Knight (from Steeleye Span)

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:26 AM

In reference to Porgy & Bess and the earlier Theatre Guild production of Porgy (1927-1929), the songs were entirely different from one production to the other. The songs included in Porgy, I believe, were older blues and gospel songs, including the songs that Ella Robinson Madison (my mother's nanny) led. For the second production Gershwin composed his own set of songs (as Ruth has posted above), as inspired by traditional Black American singing. Either production could be called a "folk opera" or not! But the first production was closer to what the folk actually sung.

Hamish Maclaren (UK) also published a sailor's folk opera titled Sailor with Banjo in 1929 which I don't believe was ever produced on stage, and none of the music has surfaced. That was where I harvested "The Yangste River Shanty."

Dillon Buston has also composed and produced several folk operas much more recently.

And I believe that Ron Baxter (UK) has also produced folk operas with his Fleetwood gang.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:40 AM

Bob Pegg's touched on this area too of course with such works as Ancient Maps and, of course, Bones...

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:44 AM

What about Mick Ryan's excellent ballad operas, such as The Navvy's Wife and A Day's Work?

Valmai

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:49 AM

And I believe that Ron Baxter (UK) has also produced folk operas with his Fleetwood gang.

We're working on the latest right now: DEMDYKE! - Being a Grisly Sequence of Supernatural Tales of Lancashire as Retold by The Earthbound Souls. Premiers at this year's Fylde Festival...

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:59 AM

As far as I'm aware, the first black folk opera was Scott Joplin's "Treemonisha". The score was composed by Joplin, but based very much on themes from his own environment and background, and the story and libretto was also based on black folk themes.

Joplin struggled in vain for many years to put on a proper production of the opera, but only succeeded in doing a basic stage version, with no scenery and only piano accompaniment. It was not a success. The mental strain of that, plus the syphilis he'd contracted, ushered in his death in 1917.

It has been produced properly since his death, and is quite attractive. The best piece from it is "A Real Slow Drag" - a great tune which was recorded as a single by Beaver and Kraus back in the early '70s.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 May 09 - 10:22 AM

"I think most of Maddy's albums are more song cycles than folk operas,"

Ah, Irishenglish, yes, I think you're no doubt right on that, and thanks for correcting me.
Though there does seem to be a fair degree of common ground between the various musical genres being suggested on these threads. Enough at least to interest me in all of them.

Oh, now if only I could find a way to offer my creative err talents to some organisation developing such stuff...! A themed production around Hopkins and Essex Witch Trials, springs to mind for starters.

Love that Bob Pegg tubey Po'B, would make a fantastic production.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 19 May 09 - 11:15 AM

The Transports is referred to as a Ballad Opera rather than a folk opera,
Don`'t musicians just LOVE King Arthur, personally I think the theme has been a bit over done.

The Wicker Man, again?! What started off as a forgetable Hammer film, was remade, a couple of years ago, into an even more forgetable film;and now someone wants a stage musical? Mind you if there was a few quid to be made of of it, Andrew Lloyd Webber would have snapped it up along time ago, but he hasn't, sooooo...

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 19 May 09 - 11:27 AM

Whilst I have written numerous 'themed' shows [mainly on nautical subjects] the only one I would call a 'folk opera' was 'Fleetwood to 'Frisco' which told the tale, based on facts, of a Hell Ship's voyage from Fleetwood in 1881 to San Fransisco & its return. The 'folkies' of San Fransisco were very helpful with the research. Ron

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 May 09 - 12:07 PM

Sandhog by Earl Robinson and Waldo Salt is a folk opera about the building of the subway system in New York.

John McCutcheon and Si Kahn have written a folk opera about labor unions.,
(Not sure if this a folk-opera or an oratorio).

Lonesome Train by Earl Robinson featuring Pete Seeger, Burl Ives and others is more of an oratorio than a folk opera.

The folk opera would have to have a dramatic book with characters. A song cycle would be more of an oratorio as was Jesus Christ Superstar when it was done for a recording but staged and rewritten later for the stage directed by Tom O'Horgan.

An opera really requires a libretto.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 09 - 02:51 PM

"Porgy," produced on Broadway by Dorothy and DuBose Heyward 1927-1929, was based on the book "Porgy" by Dubose Heyward, it was not a musical.
The Gershwins were not involved in that production, which preceded the opera co-authored by George Gershwin, Dubose and Dorothy Heyward and Ira Gershwin; the libretto by the Heywards.
Large sections of dialogue from the play were set to music for the recitatives of the opera. Heyward wrote some of the lyrics himself ("Summertime") and others in collaboration with Ira Gershwin.

Stephen Sondheim, in his "Invisible Giants: Fifty Americans Who Shaped the Nation But Missed the History Books," wrote "DuBose Heyward has gone largely unrecognized as the author of the finest set of lyrics in the history of the American musical theater- namely those of Porgy and Bess." .... "His work is sung, but he is unsung."
-------------------------

"Tremonisha" by Scott Joplin was produced by the Houston Grand Opera in 1975, a performance still available on cd from Deutsche Grammophon. The direction by Gunther Schuller was a bit stodgy (critics said too European), but his orchestration of Joplin's scores was lively.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: stallion
Date: 19 May 09 - 03:38 PM

cheers Charley, wasn't suggesting you were as old as the hills, how is Mum? See you soon.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 May 09 - 09:08 PM

Q-

DuBose Heyward did attempt to get full credit for his creative contributions to Porgy & Bess, even filing a law suit. I believe, however, that the suit never came to trial, which may have been related to Heyward's death in 1940.

It is true that the original play Porgy is often referred to as a "non-musical" but there were songs performed in its production and Ella Robinson Madison was one of the actresses who led the songs. "Fight Wid Ole Satan" was one of the songs she sang. And one of the photos of a production of Porgy from the New York Public Library digital archives shows Ella in the picnic scene leading a song.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: GUEST,julia
Date: 19 May 09 - 09:48 PM

I have written a multimedia folk opera based in historic events, using contemporary documents with period and original music called The Grand Design. The story is of the emigration of Scots Irish to Maine in 1740,their shipwreck and subsequent rescue by Passamaquoddy tribal members. You can see the website at www.the-grand-design.org
We plan on several more performances in the the northeast US in the coming year, as well as a possiible tour to Northern Ireland
Cheers- Julia Lane

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 09 - 11:11 PM

There was no suit.
The libretto was published in 1935 with full credit to Dubose Heyward as librettist and lyricist.
Title- "Porgy and Bess, An Opera in Three Acts, Libretto by Dubose Heyward, Lyrics by DuBose Heyward and Ira Gershwin." 1935, Random House
The first edition was limited to 250 copies, all signed by George and Ira Gershwin, Dubose Heyward, and the director of the opera, Rouben Mamoulian. It was a beautiful book with piano and vocal scores, bound in red morocco, in a slipcase.
Copies are on offer, from $15,000 to $40,000; it is the most desired of all American music books.

Dubose Heyward wrote no other librettos and composed no other music for public consumption, thus never received the acclaim accorded the Gershwins.
His book "Porgy" was briefly popular, but the subject matter, poor Blacks, was not one that would reach out to a broad readership.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: mrdux
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:54 AM

Q --

in the interests of discography, the first complete recording of Porgy and Bess was actually the 1976 Lorin Maazel/Cleveland Orchestra recording, followed the next year by the John DeMain/Houston Grand Opera recording (my favorite). Rattle's Glyndebourne recording (1989) was also complete. So far as I can tell, all three are still available.

michael

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 20 May 09 - 10:53 AM

Further to greg stephens' mention of Gay's "Beggars' Opera", some years before its premier, sometime in the 1720s, the Scots poet Allan Ramsay had written a short drama, with new songs to familiar Scottish airs, later expanded to make the five-act Scots Pastoral Comedy "The Gentle Shepherd" (with about a dozen new songs of this kind). Shortly before making "The Beggars' Opera", John Gay had lodged with Ramsay when in Edinburgh.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:42 PM

Q-

I also can't find any reference to a law suit between the Gershwins and the Heywards. However, I did find a fascinating legal discussion of the Gershwin Family Trust's efforts to enforce its copyrights: click here for article!

This article loads very slowly. So exercise patience.

With regard to securing copyright protection, the Gershwins were way ahead of their time.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:23 PM

The Glyndebourne production is the only complete offering on DVD, "on film" as I put it.

The movie "Porgy and Bess" with Dandridge is incomplete and revised, although it has some good moments. The last release was in 2002, but it quickly disappeared- some argument or other with the Goldwyn studios; seemingly a deal has been cut and it will be released again this Fall-Winter.

The CD of the Houston Grand Opera is available, as posted by MrDux; the Maazel was available only used for several years, but was re-released a year or two ago. Unfortunately neither was filmed /or released on film.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: mrdux
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:15 PM

sorry -- didn't catch the "on film" qualifier. interestingly, the film of the Glyndebourne production, which was done in 1993, used the 1989 recording as its soundtrack with -- mostly -- the same cast.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:43 PM

Has anyone watched the short opera by Vaughan Williams, "Riders to the Sea"? About Aran fisherfolk. Recently put out on CVD.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:07 AM

Leigh Stirling's work on Samuel "Maggotty" Johnson - 'Lord Flame' - the last professional Court jester ?

Ken Campbell of the Pennine Folk did some vignettes in this vein in the later 1960s - early 1970s, I recall.

Subject: RE: Err, 'Folk-Opera'?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:13 AM

Just seen there's a Naxos disk of Adam de la Halle's Le Jeu de Robin et de Marion - not quite a folk opera, more of a medieval pastouralle, but appealingly folksy nevertheless. The melody we used for Child #102 : The Birth of Robin Hood on John Barleycorn Reborn comes from Le Jeu de Robin et de Marion, though of course it doesn't concern Robin Hood per-se. An appealing instrumental line-up too: bells, drum, fiddle, gittern/citole, harp, pipe and tabor, rebec, shawm, symphony, copy of Whitecastle pipe, coconuts, tambourine, bagpipe drone, copy of Billingsgate trumpet, cowhorn, portative organ... Just the thing I would imagine for a sunny summer romp in the greenwood.   

Check it out at Amazon