BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:37 AM

Let's have a separate thread. This one is quite long enough with the important topic of how to deal with the dimshits.

---

I've had a couple of requests that this thread be closed, and I think I'll honor them. Elements of this thread are just a bit too pointedly directed at an individual Mudcatter.
Carry on - in another thread - but keep it civil, and remember that we don't allow personal attacks or anonymous posts.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 08:23 AM

Equity plans will work if markets keep rising.

Errm, I think we are living (again) in the proof that this is not a realistic expectation.

Property investment is not a bad wheeze, as if the population rises so must relative values of property - "Buy land, they aren't making it any more".

But property was being pushed up because people realised pensions are unworkable. The investors plans relies on them ALL cashing in their houses for cash - whioh, when it happens, depresses the market. Another variant of a Ponzi scheme.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 08:09 AM

Equity plans will work if markets keep rising.

Property investment is not a bad wheeze, as if the population rises so must relative values of property - "Buy land, they aren't making it any more".

If course the Barbara Castle Graduated National Pension did depend on continuing tax take, but that's not quite the same as a Ponzi scheme.

The "exponential rises" is not quite accurate either. Shall we start another thread about it?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:45 AM

Keith,

There are quite legitimate concerns about mass immigration.

You're absolutely right. And this is why I want the debate taken away from the BNP and why I keep imploring people to lobby their MP's to be tough on Racists, tough on the causes of Racism.

Build enough schools to accommodate everyone in this country
Build enough council/social houses
Build enough hospitals.

Mainstream politicians need to tell the truth about the numbers (which will prove we have no "mass" immigration, save for Eeastern Europeans 2004-2007 whose numbers are now reducing dramatically), and tell the truth about why we need immigration - and in greater numbers than we now have.

I took the following article from the Daily Mail. It is unusually thoughtful, although I don't agree with all of it. But it is a well researched piece of work that many may trust more than an article in the Guardian or from a think-tank. The whole thing is at

HERE

But the piece that is important to the question "why we need immigration" is...

OUR AGEING POPULATION The fastest-growing segment of the population is the over-85s, the figures showed. A record 1,243,000 have now passed the age of 85 and the group grew by 6 per cent last year.

The number of people over retirement age is now 11,344,000 - up 1 per cent in a year.

There are concerns that Britain's ageing population will become difficult to sustain because there are fewer taxpayers to pay for older people's pensions and health care costs.

The working age population is growing, although more slowly - it was up by 0.8 per cent to 37,710,000.

At the same time the number of children under 16 dropped by 0.4 per cent to 11,537,000. Overall numbers went up by 349,000 to 60,587,000, according to the figures.

Just over half of the increase was attributed to immigration, the rest to increasing birth rates. These are rising largely because recent immigrants are having more children than the existing population.

One in four of the 734,000 babies born last year had a parent who was born abroad. This is up from one in five in 2001.

The rising number of children born to migrants compares with much lower birthrates among women whose background is wholly British

And, by the way, the description "...whose background is wholly British" refers to women born in this country, regardless of ethnicity. I checked on the ONS data.

So this links in with my other great personal crusade - to get people to realise the lies that politicians tell about pensions.

Pensions are a Ponzi fraud. All of them.

Personal Equity Pensions won't work, free-markets can't sustain the top-heavy inverted pyramid of the population's age-profile.

Each and every final-salary pension plan WILL FAIL for the same reason as the equity plans, only they will all fail more quickly because an individual corporate entity's pension scheme will crumble more quickly under the demands of shareholders for profitability.

Only public sector workers whose pensions are paid from tax can theoretically survive this storm, so long as the rest of us are willing to keep paying exponentially higher taxes to fund them. (more state-pensioners + dwindlwing tax-payers = exponential ries in tax).

Frank Field is right to point out that this disparity will lead to civil unrest on a catastrophic scale. Governments and professional continuity and contingency planners are already working up scenarios for this while they continue to tell people "don't worry".

So our only real hope is to continue to strive for economic success, distribute wealth more fairly, pay higher taxes AND increase the tax-base. We really need to work out how we do that together and it begins with honesty and open-minded thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:29 AM

And indeed the majority of the Roma are outside towns.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:14 AM

"Check your math, and your reading skills, Snail. I figured most people would understand the lily-white area begins 50 miles north of London (and note that I said the inland area)"

I agree with TheSnail - this is simply dead wrong.

My paternal family hail from the East End of London and some were Huguenot immigrants, I grew up on the outskirts of Brum, live south of Manchester and was in Bradford last week; these areas have diverse and vibrant ethnic populations and have for years. The Balti curry first came to the UK when it was sold in the balti houses of Sparkbrook.

Rurally racial diversity is undoubtedly less, but I think you'd be surprised at the number of languages and cultures many small towns contain these days, and long may it remain so.

There's a hell of a lot more to the UK than London. Thank god.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 06:13 AM

Joe Offer

I figured most people would understand the lily-white area begins 50 miles north of London

Sorry Joe but I think you can forgive my mistake when I say that it never occurred to me that you could be saying anything so absurd.

Try these -

Birmingham
Bradford
Manchester
Leicester
Preston

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:41 AM

Not just xenophobia Richard.
There are quite legitimate concerns about mass immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:26 AM

There is now a fake Kat Coffey too

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=100000084256506

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:22 AM

No, Joe, their fear is based solely on xenophobia.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 10:56 PM

Posted By: TheSnail
12-Jul-09 - 06:33 AM
Thread Name: BS: BNP: What would you do?
Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?

Joe Offer
quoting Joe: "London is the most ethnically diverse city I've ever seen - but most of the inland population 50 miles north of London is lily-white, and they're scared of all the immigrants who have moved to their country."

Luton is 32 miles north of London. I respect your point of view, but please try and find out what you are talking about before condemning whole areas of the UK as racists.


Check your math, and your reading skills, Snail. I figured most people would understand the lily-white area begins 50 miles north of London (and note that I said the inland area). Luton, at 32 miles north, is about the dividing line - and yes, it did seem to be quite ethnically diverse when I visited there. I thought of saying the "inland area north of Luton," but I figured that readers outside the UK wouldn't know what I was talking about.

I did NOT say that the people north of Luton were racists. I said they're mostly white, and that many of them are scared of large-scale immigration. Their fears are real, and need to be answered. They need to be exposed to ethnic diversity in positive ways, and not have it shoved down their throats. Condemning an honestly frightened person as "racist" is certainly not a good way to get that person to accept racial diversity. Same is true for people in the north-central US, and for Californians north of Sacramento.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 12:02 PM

'casual racism'...tends to be an unconsidered 'cultural default' amongst some working-class groups in particular)

I did also hear such casual racist oral claptrap, as indeed I heard it last September and last summer at the same place - and in places even embedded in otherwise left-ish expression, so not solely from the usual suspects.

**

I suppose if I responded differently to things, I would be very angry that there existed such a degree of racism that those people who felt that way-and not the people who are reporting it here-consider it to be casual.

I feel that I should be angry because there are a lot of people whose racism is their cultural default.

I can understand other people being angry and speaking from that anger either because they are themselves a target of such racism, or they have people in their family and/or have friends who are a target of such racism. And I can understand other people being angry whose family and friends fought in wars to try to safeguard the world against the reoccurance of such casual and not so casual racism.

I much prefer responses of anger to racism than blandness and a distancing shrugging of the shoulders that "that's life".

And sometimes I think that there's something wrong with me that I don't have the energy anymore-and rarely ever did-to show my anger about racism. Typing this I realize that it's not that I don't have any feelings of anger about people not seeing me and other people who are different from them without racist blinders on. Maybe it's just that I don't express anger very well or maybe I don't want to express my anger because it is so emotionally draining to do so.

Instead of admitting any anger, when I read comments like the ones I quoted, I just feel very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 10:42 AM

http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=90702

Police in Yorkshire investigating possible right wing terrorist conspiracies found the largest stash of arms in the UK since the 1960s - and a BNP membership card.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 10:34 AM

I can confirm, Crow Sister, that I did also hear such casual racist oral claptrap, as indeed I heard it last September and last summer at the same place - and in places even embedded in otherwise left-ish expression, so not solely from the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 10:17 AM

"I heard the same old casual racist claptrap from a lot of people there."

A *lot* of people?
That surprises me somewhat actually. Not that I'm unfamiliar with 'casual racism' by any means (it tends to be an unconsidered 'cultural default' amongst some working-class groups in particular), but although my exposure to folk enthusiasts hasn't been extensive, I've yet to witness the same kind of casual racism I see elsewhere, amongst folky types.
Not disagreeing of course - you know these people far better than I, just quite surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

Come to Essex and listen to the bin men for example, it's here *on the streets, in the factories, and in the pubs*, that you'll find the kind of people I'm talking about - not at a rally

You and I were both at an informal folk gathering recently. I heard the same old casual racist claptrap from a lot of people there. It was deeply shameful.

That is why the ant-fascist backlash is trade-union led initiative. UAF is a banner organisation which aims to occupy as much of the media as possible with facts and large-scale events, whilst individual unions work on grass roots information and education aimed at the bin-men, streets, factories and pubs.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:38 AM

Royston, Sorry, I misread your previous comments. Even so, I stand by my own - I have met these people. And I don't believe they're all extremists, just dissafected, and being drawn in.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:33 AM

"Crow Sister says she has met some "misguided" BNP converts, well I haven't. And I've spoken to more BNP sympathisers (members of the public not even party-members) on protests and rallies than I care to remember."

Not quite BNP 'converts' Royston, but most certainly people who murmur that they are considering voting BNP. I don't think that these are the same people that you may talk to at rallies by a long straw. They're not political activists or white-supremacists, they just feel fucked over and are buying BNP rhetoric.

Come to Essex and listen to the bin men for example, it's here *on the streets, in the factories, and in the pubs*, that you'll find the kind of people I'm talking about - not at a rally.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:29 AM

Fred, I think the situation in http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/did-BNP-favour-Coalville-voters/article-1069297-detail/article.html was not unique.

Take the ward of Coalville -

"A decade ago, Labour held 36 of the district's 40 seats.
Their majority was so overwhelming that opposition and scrutiny came not from the Tories, who had just three seats and were rarely seen, but from rival factions inside the ruling Labour group and the media.

It was at a time when the town, through no fault of its own, was on its knees following the death of the mining industry.

Six collieries – Snibston, Desford, Whitwick, Ellistown, South Leicester and Bagworth – closed in and around Coalville in an eight-year period from 1983-1991. About 5,000 men – men with well-paid, proud jobs – were put on the dole.

Shops and pubs and businesses which relied on that industry and all that it provided went to the wall.

A community which thrived on the commodity which gave it its name was economically and then socially bereft."

Areas such as Coalville – including the former mining towns in the north where the Labour vote also collapsed – provided a rich seam of disillusionment for the BNP, said a local 'politics exper
"The BNP target white, working class areas with a degree of deprivation,"

In the run up to the election, most national newspapers, including the local Mercury, ran editorials advising their readers not to vote for the BNP.
In a unprecedented move, the NUT delivered leaflets in and around Coalville urging people not to vote BNP.
It was a move which played right into the party's hands, argued some.

"If you're angry at the system and the establishment and what you perceive to be the same establishment telling you how you should vote, you may well rebel."


Now Thatcher can certainly be held responsible for the closure of the pits but - "The New Labour project, that brave centre-left experiment to bring Clintonian Third-Way politics to a post-Thatcherite Britain" must take a very great share of the blame too in it's abject failure to communicate to it's traditional supporters

Kowtowing to the Murdoch press and a commitment to spinning a narrative to a 'middle England', have ensured it no longer speaks directly to the poor and disenfranchised

"Whenever a section of society is ignored and marginalised, the predatory fascist right move in to fill the vacuum" writes one political blogger

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:13 AM

i am not suggesting that we should stop speaking out and educating the public about what the BNP are really like, but there are more poeple that fall into the trap laid for them by the BNP and those are the ones that will dig their heels in if you just shout names at them.

i confess i have done my fair share of this and where has it got us? nowhere!!
the only way to battle them is to cut off their life support, by educating folks and stop them voting for them. rallies and protests will only go so far and i applaud your comitment royston, but we have to get them on all sides.

unfortunatly these people will always find each other and band together BUT if we can make this group of thugs smaller and smaller, we minimise the risk that others will listen, by exposing the lack of intellegence, unwillingness to listen and most of all by their own actions of violence and hatred.

thankyou to joe and emma and crowsister for your support, but all i did was to start thinking instead of reacting. THIS IS NOT A DIG AT ANYONE.me getting worked up and outraged will not change anything, only gives me high blood pressure so i am willing to try something different. the only problem is whether i can take my own advise when it comes to face to face meetings and disscussions.... we will see.

guest member, you must feel very insecure that a few naughty words on a screen upset you so much, go and grow up then you can join in with the adults.
( there i go again, but don't be fooled with my grown up approach, i like being childish too).

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:01 AM

Emma B, I suspect you've uncovered a worrying characteristic of the BNP. Namely that it's not just a sizeable number of voters who don't realise its true nature. I don't think a lot of their own members do either. I think they've joined because they are cheesed off with the major parties and see the BNP as a radical patriotic alternative.

The BNP appeals particularly to the politically clueless and naive. EG., Mrs Tovey-Jones. The best way to stop the buggars is to expose the leadership for the Hitler worshipping scum that they are.

Incidentally, it would be interesting to see how much of a correlation could be established between run down communities and BNP support. I say this because it seems likely to me that BNP electoral/membership success in Lancashire ex-mill towns and elsewhere may be due to loss of community following the destruction of local industries in the 1980s. Are we now reaping the whirlwind for the deeds of Margaret Thatcher?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:47 AM

hollering abuse and expletives at her from a safe distance I suspect is only going to throw someone back into the 'fellowship' of those they feel safer with

I don't know what you're talking about here Emma. Writing newspaper articles, producing websites, pamphlets, leaflets, securing media interviews, running web forums, letter-writing to local newspapers. That's activism.

Attending rallies, demos, pickets with a healthy cross-section of people includuding social workers, home-makers, teachers, students, solicitors, plumbers, academics. That is activism. As a marshal on some events I can assure you that there is no "hollering abuse and expletives from a safe distance" Hollering abuse and expletives is unlawful. Calling a member of a fascist party "A fascist" is lawful. Getting the truth out there, with solid supporting evidence, is lawful and necessary.

How did Tovey-Jones friends' come to know the truth, save for the efforts of anti-fascist activists. For that matter, every "truth" about the BNP stated in this thread and elsewhere can be sourced back to UAF or a trade-union or related website or publiation.

I say again, my interest is in getting the truth out there. People can use it to counsel their friends. I would do the same. Together we'll make BNP membership about as "acceptable" as paedophilia.

Like BNP Members and activists Ian Hindle and Andrew Wells, convicted in November 2008 of sex attacks on little girls. Members and activists of the same BNP promising to save this country from a tidal wave of filth and "nonces", in their parlance.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST, Inertial observer
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:46 AM

One test of the BNP is to observe its actions. Over on the Facebook "Folk against Fascism" page BNP trolls are routinely impersonating other people, and lying about, for example, receiving pms from Mudcat mambers. I don't think they deserve any good manners from others.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:33 AM

Emma, please have a look at cllr's original post.

Joe Offer

London is the most ethnically diverse city I've ever seen - but most of the inland population 50 miles north of London is lily-white, and they're scared of all the immigrants who have moved to their country.

Luton is 32 miles north of London. I respect your point of view, but please try and find out what you are talking about before condemning whole areas of the UK as racists.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:19 AM

Royston, it has been reported that Corinne Tovey-Jones withdrew after negative comments from friends.

If you and your colleagues are prepared to befriend George and discuss the racist origins, core policy and belief of the current BNP with her person to person then you too have my respect but, hollering abuse and expletives at her from a safe distance I suspect is only going to throw someone back into the 'fellowship' of those they feel safer with

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:07 AM

Emma B

You are absolutely 100% right.

However, people like Mrs. Tovey-Jones are only learning the truth because of the efforts of people like me and my colleagues.

You can't have damascene conversions unless the truth is getting out there in an effective and impacting way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:43 AM

I wish I'd spoken out before as I feel nothing but respect for people like jeddy and greensue who HAVE been prepared to speak against the use of violent language and abuse etc directed towards one individual that ape the actions of many BNP thugs themselves.
I also support the sentiments expressed by Crow sister earlier today whole heartedly

If anyone thinks I'm an apologist for the BNP let them read my posts over the last few years and talk to me about my earlier experiences opposing the National Front


Remember the case of Mrs Tovey-Jones, who stood as a BNP candidate in the Nunnery division in Worcester

Corinne Tovey-Jones wanted to withdraw after 'discovering' the BNP were a racist and anti-democratic descendant of the National Front, but was told by Worcester City Council that it was too late to remove her candidature.

Mrs Tovey-Jones complained to the Worcester News that the BNP had doctored her candidature statement to include comments about the "anti-social behaviour" of (ethnic) minorities - a comment Tovey Jones insists that she does not agree with and would not have said.

She joined the racist far right party shortly after her husband was laid off. She was told by her neighbour, a BNP activist, that "you can't get a job at the moment, they just go to Polish people".

This is typical of the BNP and their ilk - they are opportunstic and will exploit the ignorance, anger, and frustration of working people to sow their seeds of division and hate.

Mrs Tovey Jones, whose brother in law is Italian, tried to pull out of the local elections because she "doesn't want people thinking I'm racist", but as it was too late to withdraw asked Worcester people NOT to vote for her.


It may be unusual for an individual to stand as a candidate for the fascists without fully realising how deep the bigotry runs, but it is far from unusual for working people, unaware of the true colours of Griffin's Gang, and in anger at the mainstream political class, to give their votes to the BNP at the polls as could be seen from the results of the EU elections

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:26 AM

Joe,

And Royston, since you state that you know nothing about MBSGeorge

It's hard work reading everything on a web-forum (I manage one elsewhere in the ether) but I did not state that at all. She has told us an awful lot about her socio-political views by becoming a prominent member of a political party. I stated my opinion that I, personally, don't need to know anything more about her in the context of a debate about her politics.

You may argue that I am wrong to hold that opinion, I respect your view, but my opinion is not based on "knowing nothing".

you'll solidify her support of the BNP if you continue to use threats and lies

I would be concerned if there were lies, or that you thought there were lies, told here about the BNP. Please can you point out the examples - I will either bring back the proof or offer clarification to anyone that may have made such a mistake.

I am unconcerned about the sensibilities of members of the BNP. As an activist, there isn't time for it. We are shouting the truth, with irrefutable supporting evidence, about the BNP from the rooftops in order to repudiate their recruiting calls. The truth will deter reasonable or "intelligent, misguided" people from joining and will encourage some to hand back their membership cards.

Crow Sister says she has met some "misguided" BNP converts, well I haven't. And I've spoken to more BNP sympathisers (members of the public not even party-members) on protests and rallies than I care to remember. Even if you calmly tell the truth about the BNP and hand out evidence packs, you know what they tell you? "We don't care, so what if a few (insert any racist insult) get sent back home!"

The harsh reality is that there are a sizeable constituency of people who are stupid and amoral enough to turn a blind eye. Like in Nazi Germany. Then there are racists who just don't care what happens to someone else and then there are the active supporters of the BNP who revel in their nastiness. You can't reach these groups.

The MBSGeorge types (assuming her to fall into this category) of middle class rural types that somehow fell or drifted into the BNP orbit, are not really the problem, they are not important. They will either get the message or the won't.

That's why I have repeatedly condemned her politics and political choices and offered the opinion that "She ain't worth it", let her get on with it. Keep fighting fascism, George will either return to society or she won't.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:54 AM

I hope by the way that MBS George does decide to announce that she has left the BNP.

I would love to hear from an ex BNP member what it was that they think made them turn towards such a treacherous ally.

I think that an ex BNP member with insight and a clear voice could work very usefully to change the minds of the undecided in a positive way.

I hope MBS George is the type of BNP member who has been duped and not the type that agrees that immigrants to europe should have their boats sunk in the middle of the meditteranean and be left to drown.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:35 AM

"It's my opinion that most BNP supporters have been duped. If they understood what the BNP is really about, they'd look for an alternative."

Maybe - but someone has to do the duping ...

so who's duping and who's duped?

... absolutely no idea ...

But one thing they have in common is that they all, in equal measure, give life to the same hideous beast.


On the point of Who is and who isn't a fascist ...

I I call someone an idiot or scum or somethig like that then tha is of course abuse.

If I say Joe is a fascist because I disagree with some aspect of the way he helps out here, that is also an insult and would be very unfair.


However, that line of thought does not apply to MBS George.

This line does:

What do you call someone who stands for the republican party? - A republican.

What do you call someone who stands for the democratic party? - a democrat ...

... see where I'm going with this? ..

A conservative supporter, let alone candidate, is a tory, a liberal is a whig ...

a BNP candidate is a Neo-Nazi - because they are a candidate for the Neo-Nazi party.

MBS George is a BNP supporter and representative.

MBS George is a Neo-Nazi.


If there is anything insulting about this post could somebody please highlight what and explain why.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:32 AM

"Bruce, why call yourself "peace" when you describe other members as XXXX ? Peace means peace. You are bad tempered and use words that Joe should not allow on the cat."

And you'd be the best judge of that right? Have you spoken against the BNP? Even under your member name? You think bad words are a problem? How about the BNP platform of ethnic cleansing? Their policies of racism? But you are very much like them. They too post under 'guest' identities.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:11 AM

Why do you not take issue with the scum called the BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:06 AM

Piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:02 AM

I think Joe Offer and Jeddy make good points.

I know the kinds of people that the BNP are targeting with their campaign, white, working class, fucked off with New Labour. And they're not all slobs, lots of them are hardworking and never been out of a job before... and they feel betrayed ('someone must be to blame'). Some of them are natural born jerks, most of them are not highly intellectual, but most are generally OK people who just believe what they read in the papers, and most of them don't think to enquire further about what they are told.

A combination of Capitalist greed gone tits up and The Daily Mail (et al), has created a perfect ferment of distrust and anger needed for groups like the BNP to gain mass support. I'd rather understand George's motivations than condemn her. I think we could be on a very slippery slope if more people are not simply *encouraged* to look a bit more closely at what they've been spoon-fed by the papers, and at what truly lies beneath the surface veneer of the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:26 AM

it is precisely because the latter of the two types can eventually be brought round by reasoned argument that we do not have to resort to the methods of the diehard BNP supporters methods.

The more they begin to realise that they lack the ability for debate and discussion that they will resort more to violence... the fist, yhe viloence, the nail bomb, and that will diminish them more than any argument as their true colour would rise to the surface again, and they will only get votes from their nazi/fascist/skinhead lackies.


Steve

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:24 AM

Oh gosh, there are days when i can't spell. I don't think I'm the only one. Like it really matters. There are days when I don't quite make sense, so I'm a person. Join the club.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:50 PM

having spoken to george, i think there are some things going on in her private life which she would rather not share as is her right.

i agree that she may not be a BNP member for long, let us hope that she can sort out her problems and then be strong enough to admit the huge mistake she has made.

we all know what the BNP and their diehard supporters are like and the lengths they will go to to get a new recruite.

to my mind there are two types of BNP supporters, theones who are in the know ..and the ones who are lied to and bullied into submission.. ok three .. the ones who are too lazy to do their homework and voted for them.

two of those types can be brought around with patience and kindness, the other one?...you will never be able to reason with and it is those ones i don't have a clue how to tackle. we cannot resort to their level and use violence, the law is having problems shutting them up, so what is left?

i will admit to having a somewhat quick tongue in person, so i thnk i would be a hipocrite when it comes tpo putting this into practise face to face. over the net it is easier for me to control my temper and think before i type.

i am yet to make sense of some of thesae posts so will come back for a second read in the morning, when my brain sort of works.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:50 PM

Thanks, Joe.

Richard asked me to cool it, so I will.

If I owe Russ an apology he'll get one.

However, I do not think that's the case.

Anyway, I'll stay off this thread for a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:40 PM

I think Russ Meyer was trying to voice support for you, Bruce.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:12 PM

OK.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:04 PM

This thread is righteous. Let it run.


Ah, yes, Roston, I think I knew that, but on this occasion we appreciate it.



Joe - try Gravesend (maybe 30 miles south east of London, depending on where you measure from) and the Medway Towns (just a bit further down the A2): best damn places to get a curry or Thai meal for hundreds of miles, bhangra/rock fusion bands, past or present Sikh mayors, an Asian bloke called "Jungle" (after his preferred music) used to turn up to watch my daughter's heavy rock band, etc, etc.


Peace: chill. We live with these people (if that is the right word) daily.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 08:07 PM

"Oh dear Bruce, so you have been posting under a false identity !
Well spotted Joe.
I think the sooner you close this thread the better, it has ran too long."

Dear Guest,russ meyers. You may be a big shot in Armitage, Rugeley, Staffordshire, but you're just another guttersnipe as far as I'm concerned. Nice country in that area, though.

Fuck with me again and you'll wish your mother had never given birth to you.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 07:56 PM

Yes, I am what?

On this occasion, contemptuous and condescending.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 07:38 PM

I posted a brilliant message, and it disappeared. Damn.

Anyhow, as I was saying, I will agree completely that the BNP is insidious and deceptive. Their Website (click) shows that they are masters of deception. It's my opinion that most BNP supporters have been duped. If they understood what the BNP is really about, they'd look for an alternative. But you're not going to win BNP supporters over, if you insist on using Storm Trooper tactics to oppose them. The way to defeat the BNP, is to strip the party naked of any semblance of respectability, so you can expose the thugs at the center of the party for what they are.

I've corresponded with MBSGeorge several times, and she seems like a very nice person. If you can answer her concerns and give her a rational alternative, I think you'll find she won't be a BNP member for very long. But you'll solidify her support of the BNP if you continue to use threats and lies and browbeating and the whole array of tactics of the very Nazi Stormtroopers you profess to oppose.

London is the most ethnically diverse city I've ever seen - but most of the inland population 50 miles north of London is lily-white, and they're scared of all the immigrants who have moved to their country. The same is true for the Midwest U.S. north of Detroit and Milwaukee and Minneapolis and Denver, and for California north of Sacramento (like ther right-wing area where I live). These people are scared, and they're arming themselves and joining right-wing organizations that are pretty scary themselves. But you won't win them over by scaring them more. Somehow, you have to answer their fears and prove that the immigrants aren't so frightening. It's a hard job, and one that won't be accomplished by scare tactics.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM

Gervase, do you know what Greensue means by that astounding agglomeration of words (and the occasional collision of letters that is not, properly, a word)? It baffles me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:17 PM

Joe:
Me stalking George? Her BNP candidature came out of the blue to me, and having met the woman and sung with her, I wanted to know why. I've asked that question a few times in the open forum, but received no answer. Someone suggested I send her a PM, which I did. No answer. I sent her an email via Facebook. No answer.
I'm sorry, but if someone puts themselves up for election for public office and gets taxpayers' money to help fund that campaign, it isn't stalking to want to know their reasons.
Joe, with the greatest respect, I'd suggest that you're out of your comfort zone here. It's up to you if you want to do the three wise monkeys trick and simply pull the thread, thus pretending that all's right with the world and that there's still apple pie for tea, but I am not prepared to sit on my hands and be polite while my tradition is hijacked by fascists and people I like and respect are made to feel threatened by the scum from the BNP.

Greensue:
You appear to know a lot about George's thoughts and motivations.
I have seen some of the stupid questins asked by Gervase and it is no wonder she did not reply.
How? Were you privy to the one private message I sent, or to the single email I sent via Facebook? If that counts as 'invading' BNP George's Facebook page, then I plead guilty.
Perhaps, with your gift of telepathy, you could answer some of my 'stupid questins' on her behalf. And, while you're about it, which ones would you say were 'stupid'? Number 3? Maybe Number 9? Or was it Number 13?
Did you know that mbs george only joined the bnp because they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing. If either your or BNP George actually believe that then your naivete is breathtaking. The truth is out there - just Google it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:39 PM

Yes, I am what?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

greensue,

"Gervaise Webb, sorry if i've misspelt your name, icant seem to flick backwards and forwards on these pages yet.
I do believe George will be around in August, please sit down with her and ask the questions personally. I for one would be interested. I have very little politics myself, but I do realise that the BNP is a hated organisation ( yes I do understand why)even though their modern political statements seem a lot gentler than the old ones. I wouldn't think of the right questions to ask.
I spend a lot of time in a wheelchair and so far she has not tried to push me off the pier."

It's good that George has a friend like you. However, as for 'stalking'--the BNP does that shit. You OK with that, sue? You OK with the fact that George stood for election? You OK with the policies of the BNP?

"The British National Party are not just racist- they are every 'ist' under the sun. Unfortunately, they've recently been given the opportunity to share their unbelievably terrible views with the European Parliament.

A couple of DisAbled people, who wish to be known only as Harry Thomas and Cerebral Person, were horrified, terrified and disgusted when they discovered that, in response to the death of Ivan Cameron, son of David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party, senior BNP member Jeffery Marshall claimed in an internet forum discussion: "We live in a country today which is unhealthily dominated by an excess of sentimentality towards the weak and unproductive. No good will come of it."

Later, in response to comments made by others on the site, Marshall is alleged to have written: "There is not a great deal of point in keeping these people alive after all."

He said that the comments were taken out of context. However, we choose not to believe him. We feel we have good reasons to be against the BNP.

So, we have set up a brand new blog called DisAbled People Against The BNP.

This blog was born out of frustration. We hope to use it to prove to a certain politician that we are not at all unproductive!

We have big plans for this blog, so watch this space! Whether you are DisAbled, like both of us, or you simply agree that attitudes like Jeffery Marshall's are unacceptable, we welcome your support and are both very grateful for it.

Cerebral Person can be reached on [e-mail]"


Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

Greensue, That is exactly like saying "Hitler wasn't so bad, he got the trains to run on time".

I have no idea what you are saying. What "good" BNP policy are you referring to? Please translate to English the phrase

they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing.

What, they have a policy AGAINST low paid Britons? How are they going to make all Britons highly paid?

Or are you saying that they have found a way of removing Britons' need for housing? How? Free tents? Caravans?

Are they, more likely, planning to round up the homeless and send them to gas chambers, thereby reducing demand/need for housing.

And before the rest of you start, YES I AM! And no, I will not apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:52 PM

Did you know that mbs george only joined the bnp because they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing.
And yes I believe invading mbs Georges facebook page without beig asked to join is stalking.
I have seen some of the stupid questins asked by Gervase and it is no wonder she did not reply.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:48 PM

A person cannot change their ancestors nor the colour of their skin.

A person is entitled to freedom of religion and thought and sexuality(let's not get silly about this aspect, OK?).

People can change the level of their education, their speech habits, their written abilities, their manners, their diligence, etc. In short there is nothing to stop people seeking to improve themselves.

Some, however, would prefer to hang around on street corners, spit, fight, steal, and seek to mock those of better speech and behaviour. Since that is a matter of choice by those idiots, ridicule of them is not unjustified.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay?

There is nothing wrong with peasants or peasantry. There is something wrong with lazy, feckless people...of any class.

Racists, like the BNP, see and describe a world where ALL people of a certain group display the same characteristics (normally negative stereotypes). THEY would have you believe ALL immigrants are begging scrounging or stealing (property or jobs). I am, with some irony, throwing a spotlight back on BNP supporters or at least their natural constituents. The BNP target poor, resentful and bitter white folk. I don't think it is nice or pleasant but it is a reality. Let's look at leading BNP politicians like errrm...

RICHARD MULHALL - BNP councillor and leader of the BNP group on Calderdale council convicted of benefit fraud in October 2006. The party supported and ket him in post and still think he's a jolly good sort of WHITE benefit criminal. So that's OK then.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

Gervase, when it becomes a personal vendetta against an individual, I think a line should be drawn. Yes, a person who runs for political office is a public figure and loses some right to privacy because of that.

However, if that person is a member of our community, then I think he/she deserves some privacy and protection within the community. You can address a political debate quite completely without personalizing it. If the person concerned says or does something that warrants discussion, then discussion may be appropriate. The fact that the person ran as a BNP candidate is certainly worthy of reasonable discussion, but we long ago reached a point where we had beaten the topic into the ground. Then it's time to come up with more information to discuss, or to shut up.

Your approach, however, bordered on stalking. BNP candidate or not, the person is a human being. And Royston, since you state that you know nothing about MBSGeorge, then I suggest you should talk about what you do know. When you find something out that's factual, then come back and tell us.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge elsewhere
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

By and large I believe in the welfare state, but I do know some people who abuse it. I call very much to mind a chap, Marcus, locally to me who was a claimant and ducker and diver (and drinker, and how).

One day in conversation in the pub that now is no longer there I came to realise that he was in fact rather intelligent.

A little while later I started suggesting ways he could get jobs and get himself off the dole.

His response: "Why would I want to do that?".


Curiously, I gather that he later did do exactly that and is no longer drinking destructively, at least not all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM

"White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants"

So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:14 AM

Not a problem, Bruce. Gawd knows I 'ave me moments meself! And I rightly had to check myself on aspects of that earlier debate.

You see we are all influenced and we all acquire 'beliefs' from a highly treacherous and worrying media-machine in this country and further afield. We all need to check our assumptions about the world around us and ask ourselves if we really know what we believe we know, or if we have received somebody else's so-called wisdom. Don't know if that makes sense, that's what I was trying to get across in the other thread - the causal (not a typo!) link between news, media and racism (the former two producing subconscious, unwitting and unintended if not overt racist reactions)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:05 AM

Won't it be great when schools can buy whatever they need and armies have to hold bake sales to buy weapons?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:59 AM

You see, you just cannot tolerate and humour or sympathise or empathise with people who swallow this fascist line. They must be repudiated and isolated.

Mainstream politics needs to remove the tenuous grounds on which the BNP siren-calls are based.

"Taking our schools" - Build more schools
"Taking our houses" - proven to unntrue, but just build more.
"Hospitals" - Build more
"Jobs" - The recent fascist attacks against Romanians in Belfast involved a group of Romanian workers invited here by local employers who could not find local "Whites" willing to take menial, minimum-wage jobs. This is not unusual. There is a genuine problem in this country with White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants. You see them every time there is a BNP rally or "undercover" documentary. Let's be realistic here.

BNP supporters drone on about witholding benefits from immgirants - a group who don't qualify for any assistance until they have resided here for two years. Let's talk about withdrawing benefits from ANYONE that refuses to take paid work and let's take a good look at some people's incapacity benefit claims. I don't think some of the BNP grass-roots would appreciate that policy.

If BNP George were in 1945 Germany, she would be one of the German citizens who were dragged, protesting, to the gas-chambers and burial pits at Belsen-Bergen concentration camp to witness the dead and the still barely living. German citizens who thought themselves "terribly nice" and were happy that Hitler got the railways to run on time and cleared out the inner cities for "decent folk like them".

One of the reasons I am particularly strong on holocaust-deniers is that my uncle Edward (whom I came to know very well before he died) was among the troops that liberated Belsen. He was a driver and was involved in rounding up the great and good and decent folkd and brought them in to see the truth of their collective denial and stupidity.

Never forget, never surrender, never compromise!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:43 AM

Thank you, Royston. I could never make 'blue clickies' from PDF files. And likely this would be a good time to apologize to you for my ill-considered remarks to you a few days back. I do apologize sincerely. I hope you'll accept it.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:39 AM

As peace suggested, or just click HERE

It is a little out of date, missing a lot of the more recent catalogue of shame and new-found South-African terrorist links.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM

[PDF] The British National Party A briefing

Google
that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:12 AM

Bravo, Royston. Very well-said.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:11 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag?

I do not need to know anything more about BNP George than that which she has freely imparted by standing in support of the British National Party, its aims, objectives and leadership.

She is a fascist.
She is a member of a nazi-styled political party.
As a BNP candidate for public office, she hob-nobs and glad-hands with the leadership; a leadership which includes holocaust-denying, hitler-admiring, attempted child-murdering terrorist & racist scum who are plotting - daily - to spark a violent race-war in MY COUNTRY. I have all the references and proofs for those accusations - they are just a few of the criminal convictions held by Griffin and his inner circle and include views and objectives stated by Griffin himself in public.

I don't need to know anything more about this "George" person.

If she dislikes the reality of her unpleasant life then only she can change it; leave and renounce the BNP and try to return to mainstream, decent society.

If she really does not understand what she has got herself into then she is profoundly and dangerously stupid and I continue to regard her with contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:53 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag? I've known George for maybe eight or nine years or so as a Middle Bar Singer, but had no idea that she was standing as a candidate for the BNP until Mike (Cllr) told me.
As a Middle Bar Singer I don't feel happy with George calling herself "MBS George", and feel it would be more appropriate for her to call herself "BNP George"; the name of the party for whom she stood for election in the Cepen Ward of Chippenham.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:36 AM

There
is
always
a
price
to
be
paid
when
people
stand
up
against
Fascism.

There's
a
greater
price
to
be
paid
if
people
don't.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:32 AM

Can I make a plea to consider the words of
Miguel de Unamuno y Jugo Spanish essayist, novelist, poet, playwright and philosopher

"That which the Fascists hate above all else, is intelligence."

and fight the BNP with reasoned argument and refuting their lies NOT simply with name calling and expletives

"When I read good people with good intentions using neo-Nazi language to argue against neo-Nazis I feel they have not understood that the fight against fascism is also a fight against dehumanising language."

thank you Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:15 AM

Yeah,
Joe.
I
forgot
that
only
the
BNP
can
post
under
multiple
identities.

---

And if they get caught, they get deleted.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:30 AM

Sorry folks. I didn't see the thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=122186&messages=10 about Shepheard and whittle being jailed. Also, there's a Guardian article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/10/first-racial-hatred-online-conviction .

It doesn't sound like this pair are rsponsible for Redwatch. However, an important precedent has been established. Namely that you can't upload race hate material to a server in another country and expect immunity from prosecution.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

I think she tagged herself by standing as a candidtae.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

"Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England."

Does anyone have any further details on this? I heard on the BBC PM programme that Shepherd and A N Other had been jailed for running a race hate website, but didn't catch any more. Is this the infamous Redwatch? If so they should also have been charged with incitement to violence.

"On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire."

Does anyone know the location of BNP festival? The anti-demo starts assembling in Codnor market square at 9am, with coaches arriving around 11am. Unfortunately, I am going to have to make my own way there and it's possible I may not arrive until after the parade has headed off. Just for once I don't fancy driving all over the Derbyshire countryside trying to catch up.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:28 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:01 AM

If there is any doubt as to the fascist ,racist and violent nature of the BNP go to google images and type in "John Tyndall".
Tyndall was the first leader of the BNP and Griffin's immediate predeccessor.

Tyndall,an open Hitler lover all his life and a proud nazi, can be seen on google images posing in his nazi uniform in front of a large swastika and underneath a framed photograph of his hero,Hitler.It is quite sickening.The man was steeped in hatred and violence and had a string of serious criminal convictions.

His successor Griffin, is also a convicted race hater and has been involved in racist and fascist politics since his teenage years.

He is an anti semite and a denier of the holocaust.His alsation dogs were /are called Anne and Frank.He can also be seen on google images in a white power T shirt leading a National Front march. He is a former leader of the violent National Front.

But the fascism is not just confined to the top leadership.The core of the BNP is nazi through and through and many of its lower ranking and regional leaders have serious criminal records for race hate and violence.Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England.
The BNP should always be identified for what it is ..a violent,fascist and racist organisation with neo nazis in its core leadership .
On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:15 PM

...and that was 700 by the way. And given what the BNP represents, 700 posts is not too many. Six million might be a better number.
Americans may feel happy to have the KKK spout their stuff because of a belief in free speech, but they don't have to live with the fact that fascists have now been elected in the UK and will get given the best part of three quarters of a million dollars of tax-payers' money to promote their twisted ideology. The sort of ideology that suggests we sink boat-loads of migrants to stop them reaching our shores, that suggests that Jews are behind a conspiracy to do down the white race, that...well, need I go on?
I know the wish is to keep this place a touchy-feely, politics free zone, where the real world doesn't intrude, but in the UK the fascist right is making a deliberate effort to appropriate traditional music and dance to further its own filthy ends. I don't want that to happen. If that means shouting out a few home truths, so be it.
And if this post is pulled as well, then what remains of any respect I had for the people who set up the Mudcat as an inclusive place to celebrate folk and blues will finally have evaporated.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:02 PM

Bruce? What the hell's Bruce got to do with the price of fish?
That wasn't Bruce saying that, it was me.
I had a message deleted in which I said BNP George was a fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 07:42 PM

Sometimes if you're not logged in, the post doesn't identify who posted it and it just shows up as "Guest." I've had those deleted. I've wondered if the monitor thought I was trying to get in under the radar screen, or if the message was deleted simply because it was anonymous.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM

Touché, er....Russ.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:24 PM

Only one thing to say to you Russ. SuperVixens.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Russ Meyer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:22 PM

Oh dear Bruce, so you have been posting under a false identity !

Well spotted Joe.

I think the sooner you close this thread the better, it has ran too long.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:10 PM

I was supprised to hear that most people have had messages removed. I have never had any message removed from any website. I am however supprised (also) that folkies are so vehement at times over politics when most of us dont seem to ever discuss politics when at festivals, clubsetc.
In answer to the title of the thread, I wouldn't vote for them. What more is there to say. No dont answer that I think I have spent the last hour reading it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM

Peace (Bruce Murdoch) says:

I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism.

I take charges like that very seriously, Bruce. I looked through all of the deleted messages in this 693-message thread, and I find that they all were deleted under policies clearly stated in the FAQ - almost all of them were anonymous or deceptively identified. Yes, several of your messages were deleted - because you posted them under a false identity.
Tell the truth, Bruce - or else nobody will believe anything you have to say.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:15 PM

When I read good people with good intentions using neo-Nazi language to argue against neo-Nazis I feel they have not understood that the fight against fascism is also a fight against dehumanising language.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 11:42 AM

The cold harsh reality is that the BNP are NOT, repeat NOT going away anytime soon, to believe otherwise for whatever reason is simply to, as the say goes, dream on baby, dream on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 04:38 AM

It isn't an insult ...

... they are a neo-nazi paty and their politics are fascist.

They wish to etnically cleanse the UK (whatever that means) and their representatives in government are pushing for a european border control that would sink boats containing refugees bound for european shores.

How is it inaccurate to describe them as fascist?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 03:14 AM

And
if
that's
deleted
I'll
repost
it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 03:13 AM

"I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism. It's OK to stand for election on a blatantly racist, neo-nazi ticket, but it's not OK to call someone a fascist, apparently."

Fuck
the
BNP
fascist
bastards.

I
mean
that
in
the
nicest
possible
way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 02:57 AM

'The argument goes that the BNP rarely make into the headlines on their own steam so if you don't respond to provocation, deprived of the oxygen of publicity they will wither away.

That is a quote from Emma's post, it is attributed to one of the founders of Nothing British", an anti-BNP campaign.

The last bit reminded me of a quote by the late, great comedienne, Linda Smith, on 'The News Quiz". On one edition, another panellist used that "deprive them the oxygen of publicity" line and she responded with "I would rather deprive them the oxygen of OXYGEN!"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 03:19 PM

"the Daily Mail and the Conservatives doing something useful to fight the BNP. Maybe it is just spin."

Nah....The Conservatives and The Daily Mail simply don't want any competition

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 08:12 AM

"Sink their boats, throw them a liferaft and send them bacck to Libya ..."

Brace yourselves before looking here

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:55 AM

I am rather surprised to find the Daily Mail and the Conservatives doing something useful to fight the BNP. Maybe it is just spin.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:47 AM

and from the Conservative site "There's nothing British about the BNP" - the blue link you may see below the thread

a list of BNP members with criminal connections

giving the name, what they were convicted of and the person's position in the BNP

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:38 AM

Being curious by nature and having a desire to 'know the enemy' I clicked on the BNP link below the thread which Penny referred to

There is some useful stuff there :)

Mobilisation against BNP's Red, White and Blue festival August 15th now underway

Events are heading towards a summer Saturday show-down between the BNP and anti-fascist protestors at the BNP's annual Red, White and Blue rally which falls this year on August 15th near Ripley, Derbyshire.

After the public backlash caused by recently-elected Griffin's televised egg-ing on College Green, we hope the confrontation will not lead to more sympathetic TV coverage for the BNP leader and a huge police costs for hard-pressed Derbyshire taxpayers.

Anti-fascist demonstrators are holding a summit to make their plans. Our advice: don't let this event kick off the sort of summer of violence which would give Griffin the moral high-ground.


The site is titled "There is nothing British about the BNP"

- "Nothing British" is a campaign against the politics of discrimination, segregation and racial supremacy started by Tim Montgomerie and James Bethell.

Tim Montgomerie is a former Conservative Central Office staffer who started ConservativeHome, a British political website, that aims to represent UK grassroots conservative opinion.
James Bethell has stood as a Conservative Party candidate


Neither are members or supporters of the BNP!


"JAMES BETHELL: Why I'm launching an online fightback against the poison of the BNP"

'The argument goes that the BNP rarely make into the headlines on their own steam so if you don't respond to provocation, deprived of the oxygen of publicity they will wither away.
This certainly worked when a few papers and broadcasters held a monopoly on the national and local news media. And many, including those in communities fighting extremism, remain committed to this approach.

But I wonder if the internet has changed all that. The danger is that by not contesting the ground we are giving BNP a walk-over on the critical playing fields of the internet.
That's why we are launching a new online campaign against the BNP (www.NothingBritish.com). It does not attack them on traditional grounds favoured by the left: criminality, economic incompetence and general uselessness.

Instead it cuts straight to the main difference between the BNP and all the other parties in Britain. Their determination to deport, one way or another, the non-indigenous population of the UK.

Called 'there's nothing British about the BNP', there is a campaign video, a website and a petition which we will be promoting in the run-up to the elections.
There will be those who argue that this gives the BNP what they want. A fight.
I disagree'

From the Mail Online 15th May 2009

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:04 AM

When I looked at this thread, I found what appears to be a link to the BNP website at the bottom. Didn't click on it to check, being a bit chary of establishing any link between my computer and them.

I understand a number of companies are approaching Google to make sure that links to the BNP do not appear on their websites, as they have started to do. (Somewhere in the Guardian yesterday, I think I got this from.)

Thanks Emma for confirming what I could not believe I heard on the BBC news yesterday.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:58 AM

It's important to evaluate on what basis your friendship survives. This can be done by explicitly expressing your views about the support for the BNP. You can do this in such a way as to respect the friendship but not go along with the ideology. If your friendship survives this discussion (which it should be, not a rant) then it is worthwhile. If not,
c'est la vie.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:43 PM

Do I feel disturbed about a BNP member committing suicide? Probably somewhat less than I do about a person of more civilised principles doing so.

Do I feel disturbed about the possibility of the BNP having any power?

You bet your sweet bippy I do.

Frankly, Rifleman, there are sme people without whom we are better off. I wouldn't personally kill them, but if they do the job themselves I have little or no objection.

By the way, did you not note the irony? I am almost sure that Royston's quote was from some nazi or other, who said it about a Jew or a person of colour.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:41 PM

Sometimes I get all ill and whoosey and confused watching threads like this, then sensible people like Gervase turn up and I feel all better again! Nosarcasmintended, but Charlies on right now, so I better haste to telly!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:34 PM

I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism. It's OK to stand for election on a blatantly racist, neo-nazi ticket, but it's not OK to call someone a fascist, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:16 PM

Oh look a BNP supporter, how polite they are being

"This can be done by
explicitly expressing your views about the support for the BNP."

I'd sooner have root canal work done, without the use of anesthesia.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

seriously disturbed is the term I used and the term I meant...got it?..Good!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

"The EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants to prevent them entering Europe"

Are we honest to God expected to take this bunch of brain deadened weevils seriously? It's not so long back that a Daily Telegraph reporter asked Griffin how he proposed to get rid of 'aliens' who were born in this country. Griffin replied, and bear in mind this polemical genius is Oxford educated and a law graduate, "Oh I don't know. Drop them out of plane somewhere over Africa".

This isn't politics. this is bar room drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:53 PM

The EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants to prevent them entering Europe, British National Party leader Nick Griffin said during an interview with the BBC

When the interviewer, BBC Correspondent Shirin Wheeler, replied: "I don't think the EU is in the business of murdering people at sea." Griffin replied: "I didn't say anyone should be murdered at sea - I say boats should be sunk, they can throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya."

Libya has no functioning asylum system and is not a party to the 1951 UN convention relating to the status of refugees; human rights groups have raised concerns about Italy sending migrants back to Libya without first screening them for asylum claims or to discover whether they are sick, injured, unaccompanied children or victims of human trafficking.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:48 PM

On the subject of convictions held by BNP members, it is interesting to look at some of their overseas convictions.

The founder of the BNP's Hereford chapter is Lambertus Nieuwhof, a South-African white supremacist and leading member of the AWP, a terrorist group in the old SA run by Eugene Terre-Blanche.

He was convicted of planting a 25kg bomb in a primary school in 1992. The bomb failed to go off which is the only reason he got a tragically lenient sentence from an apartheid-era court of 12 months SUSPENDED!

He also runs the BNP website/forum and if you want to ask him about it, you can reach him at 101 Crossways, Peterchurch, Herefordshire, HR2 0TG; or by phone on 01981 550888.

Nieuwhof's "thing" is advancing white-power by sparking race-war. Hence the plan of his, amongst others, to murder children at a school that "threatened" to go multi-racial.

Welcome to the cuddly world of BNP 2009.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:42 PM

you are seriously disturbed...

Nah, not really. I could never agree with harming or killing another person, but if certain people fall on their own sword then, well, GOOD! One less Nazi to be looking out for.

I am sure that some fascists would dance on my grave (probably dressed and made-up as B&W Minstrels)

C'est la vie.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:30 PM

you are seriously disturbed...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:29 PM

And Luke Smith, the BNP councillor who glassed a fellow activist at the party's 'family festival', hanged himself...

One down...

A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:59 AM

from Ray Davies's song Over The Edge from The Kinks album Phobia (1993)

"My next door neighbour's totally snapped
Ever since he got laid off
Something inside snapped
His wife says he's gone 'round the twist
Now there's no turning back
All night he waits in the garden shed
For the enemy to attack
A suburban vigilante
Dressed up in a union jack
He's over the edge, oh, over the edge"

sounds familiar.........

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 04:06 AM

Not a word from BNPGeorge, by the way. I emailed her a week ago (through PM here and via Facebook) with the questions that had been posted on the Mudcat.
A naive part of me hopes she read the questions and thought "My God, is that true? Is this the bunch of fascist thugs I'm promoting?", and is now sitting in a darkened room somewhere morally detoxing.
Given her angry response earlier, however, the more realistic side of me concedes that she's gone to the bad and is probably revelling in her perceived victim status.
From what I heard the singarounds at the 'Red, White & Blue' festival aren't a patch on those at Chippenham or Sidmouth. Tomorrow Belongs to Me and the Horst Wessel Lied get a little tedious after a while...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:54 AM

Interesting list, Richard. Sadly it's a bit out of date - there are more convictions that should be added. And Luke Smith, the BNP councillor who glassed a fellow activist at the party's 'family festival', hanged himself in July last year, the day before he was due in court on charges of assault against a pub landlord

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:05 AM

A list of criminal convictions of BNP people

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 12:00 PM

Frankly this whole who's who paranoia thing is deflecting away from the main issue, the enemy, the BNP (mind you this what those thugs want)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:03 PM

It may of course be that her politics are right wing - I do not know - but she is real. She and Charlotte are one and the same.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 02:24 PM

Thanks, VT. I withdraw my remarks and request.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 02:20 PM

I think RB was simply intimating that dillie is NOT a BNP troll, because she is known to him and/or others he knows.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 02:05 PM

"Dillie is fairly well known."

That said, who then is Dillie? Not like it's a state secret or anything . . . right?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:19 PM

It was more of a rhetorical question than anything else

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:14 PM

Dillie is fairly well known. Just don't ask Kev the Clogs for a character reference: they have different views on Broadstairs.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:23 PM

wonder if this person is related to charlotte the oast ouse opper?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:47 AM

I was at the Peter Boat Leigh on Sea on both Friday and Saturday evenings. I sang mostly Odetta (American folk). Which one were you?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 06:23 AM

Don't think I know you dillie. Have we met?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,dillie the oast ouse opper
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:43 AM

Where are they getting these photographs from Virginia ? did you go to the Peter Boat in June ? sessions ranged from rousing to thought provoking to hilarious and mildly obscene. I was in awe of so much talent.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

Well the bastards have now put up 2 more fake profiles on facebook, using combination of my name and picture with those of my husband.

My husband is not even on facebook, but he has spoken against the BNP on Mudcat.

We have both reported the fake profiles to facebook.

might be time to infiltrate the BNP with spies.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Dan Plews
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:54 AM

Re: From: meself
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:34 PM

The latest mysterious "guest". If he's a friend of yours, and you can vouch for his good character, then I withdraw my remark. But I'm suspicious of someone who revives a dead BNP-related thread in order to ridicule a poster critical of the BNP.



How mysterious am I?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22dan+plews%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=
...Wonder what would come up if I googled "meself"...I didn't realise you had to know someone to post...John's post is funny because of what he says, not his spelling, if that's what you're assuming. And even if I were ridiculing an anti-BNP post (which I am not) that would not imply support for the BNP, just that the post itself was ridiculous. And there are plenty of those on this subject I'm sure. OK?
On this subject, and since this is a music forum, I'd welcome comments on my blog "Facebook, BNP and Folk Music" which has some lyrics on this subject too. http://blog.myspace.com/danplews

Yours
Dan Plews

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:47 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:08 PM

thankyou, i see a serious session coming on!! i do have the right thing for the job, we have some of those corkscrew things that tie the dogs up!!

now bend over, this won't hurt abit!!

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:57 AM

"i think i would give them a rogering, if i had the right equipment!!"

*LOL*

Jade, I have a longgggggg barge pole, well over ten feet, that you can borrow ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:50 AM

Jade, you shock me! I thought you to be a woman of impeccable taste! :-) :-)

The 'right equipment' IMHO would be a red-hot poker. They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:27 AM

i think i would give them a rogering, if i had the right equipment!!, using condoms of course!

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:16 AM

"Fuck the BNP."

no thanks STD's are not my thing, sorry

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 11:44 AM

I think that's rather witty of the black youths. I'd have asked them to sing a song at that point.

But I have just had a flash of light! I know what to do to the BNP.


Give Bearded Bruce honorary membership. THen he will have his own band of stormtroopers and ACTUALLY be able to invade "populist" countries in stead of merely dreaming about it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:44 AM

Even if we're not concerned, the blackface morris issue is generating heat on the Stormfront fascist forum.
From member 'Bonny Green Garters':It's time for me to confront my 'friends' in the Morris and show them what is really happening in our once Great Country... Before any more of them decide to remove me from their Facebook 'Friends' lists...
And, from the same morris-dancing nazi: I was once part of a black-faced Morris side doing our occasional annual Summer weekend tour of Brighton. We were apprehended by some Black youths shouting, ''Hey! I know why you guys black your faces ! " Nervous embarrassed dismissive silence from my middle-class middle-aged liberal dancing mates.. "It's cos Black is Cool !!" the Blacks replied. So I suppose that's alright then..

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:57 PM

quite!!!!

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM

Fuck the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:34 PM

The latest mysterious "guest". If he's a friend of yours, and you can vouch for his good character, then I withdraw my remark. But I'm suspicious of someone who revives a dead BNP-related thread in order to ridicule a poster critical of the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

"Troll alert."

and the troll is whom?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 01:15 PM

Troll alert.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:39 PM

i got it. the spelling isn't important it just has to make sense, like i can talk about spelling!! lol

giving guns to everyone who only makes it through basic training is bloody scary.talk about giving someone the go ahead to murder!!!!!

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM

jOhn's off the wall humour was always a welcome addition to mudcat - good to see his posts again
- but don't mention hampsters :)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:29 PM

bloody hell, Dan THAT took me 5 reads before I got what the person was on about, mind you I'm still not quite sure what he means by a short hare

right I'm off to get some fresh hare......

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Dan Plews
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:14 PM

I've been reading the threads on the BNP and just wanted to thank one of the contributors to another thread (I found his last posting on this one so hope he's reading)
Your comments made me laugh loud and long. I've included them below for anyone who missed but might enjoy them. Apologies if that's not the done thing.
Dan Plews

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 07:39 PM

Bnp are rubbissh, [really rubbisah, most rubbish people i ever herd of],
you can see this for yousdelf, just look at the bnp people=ie
= they are look like evil bastards, and look like thugs, and very bad people, i seen them on telly, they look very bad [lilke fighting people, ie them people waht like to make trubble, and they all got really short hare, [like skinheds], and you can tell they are bad , just by look at them, and they piss me off.


there new idea is= give all ex army people guns, and they idea is = all ex army people hafe to carry guns, i am ex army, if they give me a gun, i will shoot them [the bnp;s], not the coloureds.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 11:19 AM

It was the perfect example of what can be expected from the BNP and their thugs. I won't be running away though, they can expect a fight from me, in a VERY big way. So much for 'talking' to these animals, and 'staying within the law'.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 07:29 AM

mmmm.. i wonder. like when they target someone it isn't scary enough, without having drive by s.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 04:28 AM

It looks like there has been a practical demonstration of what the BNP mean by voluntary repatriation this week in the Lisburn Road area of Belfast.

If they came to power at which point would the thugs be brought in to persuade people that repatriation would be preferable.

Also if BNP policy of requiring those completeing military national service to keep a semi-automatic firearm? What will be the main purpose of that?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:09 PM

Whew!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:42 PM

Heads up, guys. We're not allowed to call people racists in the Mudcat. I've just been told by the guy in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:53 PM

I just had a look at the Redwatch site - I'm not in the zone.... yet.
As well as photographs, the pages request personal information about the people they have photographed.. a possible breach of the data protection act?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:22 PM

A little late in posting to this Mike. I don't come on Mudcat much any more but I had to look at the other thread where she "outed" herself after the comments on the Middle Bar group and I now have to come on this one to say I also agree with you and find I can't continue to be a friend of this person...sadly.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: plnelson
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

The success of the BNP in the recent election (not to mention UKIP) should be a wakeup call to the major parties.   

The impression I had was that BNP and UKIP drew much of their strength from the frustration that many people feel over the economy and many aspects of EU membership.      British voters were promised a referendum awhile back on the EU.   

As a USAian I don't have an opinion about the future of UK EU membership or immigration policy, but I get the distinct impression that ever since Tony Blair decided to support the US in Iraq (see my blog entry a few years back:
http://blog.pnart.com/?p=13 ) there has been a growing body of UK voters who don't feel that mainstream politicians listen or respond to them.   And that the politicians will do whatever they bloody well want to do. This leads to extremism and social unrest.   The way to undermine the BNP is for the Tories and New Labour to be more responsive to the voters (and get their ethical house in order while they're about it)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 04:19 PM

Well, I thought it was worth a try, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 03:21 PM

Jeri I think you're comments apply to both "the facebook wanker" *LOL* and Riginslinger the Entertainer

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM

I should note that I hadn't read the post immediately preceding mine by Riginslinger (with whom I don't agree) before I posted. I was referring to the Facebook wanker, no matter who that might be. I have suspicions, but I don't believe he ever used his actual name that I know of. It's just a   person who knows how to get up people's noses.

Judging by the attention trolls get by some Mudcatters, people enjoy trolls up their noses. There's a song in that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 02:45 PM

Ok Riginslinger The Troll here's my final shot, I,ve wasted far too much time on you, so......

" Wrong you are, Rifleman. I don't hate anybody."
Right out and up front, Riginslinger, you're a liar.

Jeri is right, you're a very weak person, a troll, who is looking to be entertained, you've kept me and my family entertained, briefly, laughing at you, as it turns out. I know how to respond to people like you. Well Riginslinger or whatever your name is, time's up. In closing I'll say this, I am as you probably know, one of those people you want to control, a non-white immigrant, but this timewe are not going to allow your type to tell us what to do and when to do it, this time we fight back, see you in the arena.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:56 PM

The worm is impersonating someone else now.

I don't think anyone could do a better job discrediting the BNP with words than this person is doing by their public actions.

Fundamentally, I think this is a troll, and may not care a bit about the BNP but for it's effectiveness as a trigger. Get sucked in if you like, fight with the troll or with each other, but this is a weak person looking for you to entertain him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:50 PM

"There ya go Riginslinger you ahve soething in common with people you hate...which, for me is a very soboring thought."


             Wrong you are, Rifleman. I don't hate anybody. I simply think North America and Europe need to update their immigration policies before they find themselves completely swamped in wall-to-wall humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM

Keith's story is realistic i think Richard.

BNP lies tend to be along the lines of "The BNP aren't racist because..."

ie - BNP supporters don't usually deny being BNP supporters, they generally lie about the BNP to persuade people to take another look.

Keith has made a point of dissociating himself from them.

This is not consistent with BNP behaviour.

Unless anything else were to be uncovered I would be satisfied that Keiths assurances are sincere, as much by their tone as their content.

Wringing out further hypotheses from the available evidence won't get us any further however and Keiths response doesn't look like changing no matter how many different ways the evidence is represented.

Richard, it is clear that these circumstances have made you feel very uncomfortable and with good reason.

A bit of trust and mutual understanding wouldn't go amiss here.

It is not pleasant to have ones identity misused and it is also not pleasant to be cross examined over something that one hasn't done.

Why would someone steal Keiths words?

Why would someone steal Richards name?


It is perfectly possible that you are both victims of the same person.


The uncertainty of course makes it difficult to lay to rest, but the variety of possible hypotheses does mean that for now at least, the barest minimum fairness requires that Keith be granted the benefit of the doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:06 PM

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/gensynod/agendas/feb09/gsmisc903a.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 11:34 AM

"They probably figured they were there to plunder the country side, pillage the villages, loot the towns, and rape the women, just like the immigrants now. "

There ya go Riginslinger you ahve soething in common with people you hate...which, for me is a very soboring thought.

Non-white immigrant, that's me :-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 06:11 AM

This is in danger of degenerating into a witch-hunt. Keith is no more a BNP supporter than I am - some opportunist low-life has seized on his post and exploited it, as such people do. And someone, somewhere, must be having a good chuckle at the paranoia now making itself evident here.
FFS, leave Keith alone and concentrate on the real problems.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:26 AM

Because it is a nasty thing to be accused of fool.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 03:35 AM

I doubt that they have a target list of people to watch Richard.
They are just being opportunistic.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 02:22 AM

Richard, an old post of mine.
There are others.
I have always and only opposed them.

From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour - PM
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM

Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion?
if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome.

Non UK folks, BNP is an extremist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 02:17 AM

Richard, within minutes of my first post an anonymous guest posted an attack on it from a BNP perpective.
It said I was lucky to be in cosy Hertford and have other people to fight my battles for me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 07:00 PM

Well, Kevin, it would be vanity for me to suggest that they thought me dangerous to promote me to "Redwatch", and why would they watch Keith at all? He is fairly right-wing on most topics.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:15 PM

How so, Richard? We know that there are a few genuine Nazis (a term I prefer to use rather than the laundered initials BNP) hovering round the Mudcat these days.

As the inscrutable sage Cantona reminded us "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 04:54 PM

I simply followed a train of logic Keith. You say that you wrote and people copied. That could happen two ways - "pull" ie people found and copied all on their own, or "push" ie you wrote and then you or someone close to you alerted people to what you had written.

What you wrote here was on Facebook and Digg within about half an hour of your writing it.

How likely is it that bnp scum are watching either you or me that closely - that they know what we posted within about half an hour?

That seems to me to make the "push" theory more probable.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 04:51 PM

That woman's views are revealing Jedy.
This report polled the views of 1000 BNP voters.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/who+voted+bnp+and+why/3200557

Here is a sample.
Not surprisingly, BNP voters regard immigration as the top issue facing Britain. Fully 87 per cent of them told us it was one of their top three or four concerns. (This compares with a still-high 49 per cent among the public as a whole.)

But when people are shown the same list and asked which three or four issues "are the most important facing you and your family", the figure falls to 58 per cent. True, this is three times the national average of 20 per cent, yet it means that for almost half of BNP voters, immigration is NOT among the worries of day-to-day life.

We also find that most BNP voters do NOT subscribe to what might be described as "normal racist views". Just 44 per cent agreed with the party in rejecting the view that non-white citizens are just as British as white citizens.

Yet the feeling is widespread that white Britons get a raw deal. Seventy seven per cent of BNP voters think white people suffer unfair discrimination these days. But that is also the views of 40 per cent of the public as a whole.

The average British voter is more likely to think that discrimination afflicts white people than Muslim or non-white people. And only seven per cent of the public think white people benefit from unfair advantages, while more than one in three think Muslim and non-white people receive unfair help.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 03:47 PM

i had a listen and it is clear that the woman doesn't have a clue.
when she claims that her ancestors come from london, i wonder how far back she went.
when george asked why she was superior to him she had no anwers.

this is a classic example of the fear that the BNP can spread, people are frightened but don't know why.

people are scared of being overun but don't know who by.
these people are scared of something that they have been told to be scared of, and alot of them listen without question. WHY? for too long we have been told by government that THEY know what is best for us and we have meekly accepted it. when we try to challenge the government now, they think we haven't got a clue and ignore us.

it is that sort of mentality that will let the BNP get more power.

it is our duty to inform people there is more to it than that and to inform them of their choices and that they have a right to choose, and what those choices could lead to.

i hope tht woman begins to wonder why she could not answer GEORGES questions, and starts to delve deeper into the reasons behind the thinking.

take care all
jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 02:32 PM

Love or loath George Galloway (I personally am generally pretty indifferent) this cross examination of a racist woman very effectiveley boils the whole issue down to its fundamental point.

"Life was sweet when we ruled the world"

The English Master race is missing its empire.

here

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 02:09 PM

BNP Press officer explains how black peoples genetic inferiority is to blame for their being more disposed than whites to violence crime etc ...

       HERE

Would any BNP supporters, perhaps MBSGeorge, like to explain or justify the points made here?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 11:31 AM

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8644741474

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

There is no country in the world that allows uncontrolled, unrestricted immigration.
No British party advocates that either.
That does not make them all racist.
The problem is that our respectable parties will not talk about acceptable levels or how they could be enforced.

That is how BNP, with its very unBritish values and ideas, are able to gain support in areas of high immigration.
It is too easy for those of us outside those areas to pass judgement on them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:32 AM

Richard, you say that the posts are all about the same time.
I wrote the words and posted them only here.
There is an implied criticim and doubt in your post.
I really am not responsible for what others did with it, however soon after my original post, am I?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:31 AM

I just looked at the DIGG sight and I have never seen so much bile and hatred in one place before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:06 AM

it is dangerous to bring 'concerns about this' and 'concerns about that'into a debate about the facist and racist nature of the BNP. I have concerns that one of my local pubs no longer sells real ale. If BNP voice the same concern that does not deminish their evil and devisiveness.

Anyone can make a public statement that they will "do SOMETHING about an issue". What we are waiting for here is honest and transparent answers about what what their SOMETHINGS are.

The first thing they can do is stop denying the criminal records that a number of their members including senior members have. Secondly stop denying their venomous activities for which their is more than ample documentary and film evidence. Thirdly stop denying their links with fascist and race-hate organisations around the world, or at least for a start provide an explanation why it is in the public interest to engage with such. Fourthly - stop lying on television - Bronz lied about his arrest and conviction this morning.

Fifth - keep your nasty slimy grubby hands away from the worker coop movement. We dont want to catch any nasty diseases from you.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:04 AM

Oooh, and tha twas me getting the 600, too!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:02 AM

Curious that the same words crop up again here: -

http://digg.com/world_news/BNP_Nick_Griffin_Proven_Right_on_Home_Grown_Jihadists



All at very much the same time as your post above and the same words on facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:36 AM

Richard, I typed the post as a stream of consciousness.
I did not have notes or any other material.
I have posted in the same vein before and I wwill try to find it.
My post has been copied by someone else.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:31 AM

Keith

Why is your post here the same as that of "Hoff Bridge" - an identityjack of my name by someone else - on the Facebook Folk against Fascism site?

Three possibilities: you copied him, he copied you, or you both copied directly or indirectly from the same other source.

Did you copy your post from a different source, and if so where?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:17 AM

That quoted post is undeniably mine but this is the only site that I have posted it on.
It can only be a copy.
Nasty devious things are going on here.
BNP are nasty devious people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:16 AM

How about replacing 'second and third generation immigrants' with 'second and third generation residents'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:12 AM

My post was my post.
This is the only site apart from BBC that I visit.
Second generation immigrants is an accepted and neutral term.
It describes a section of the population of British people whose parents or grandparents were born elsewhere.
They tend to share the same problems as affect white working class people (we do have to label groups to discuss sociological issues)and are themselves often adversely affected by high levels of immigration.

I think that immigration is a legitimate area of concern. I welcome having my points disputed but please do not try to smear my name.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:28 PM

i have always thought that when the economy is stable it was usaully due to migrant workers who do the jobs that no one else wants. we wouldn't have a railway system if it weren't for THE BLOODY FORIGNERS.

nor would we have alot of things i would have thought, if anyone can tell me i would be grateful.

it is not the (for example) polish workers fault that the bosses pay them less, it is not their fualt that the housing market dried up and it is not their fault that rest of the economy went belly up either, they have been made scapegoats for the bankers and bosses who think that they don't have to keep up standards and fair pay.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:51 PM

I too am intrigued by the similarities between this post:

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM


And the one quoted by Richard Bridge.


Keith?

Any explanations?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:40 PM

To talk about the 'burning issue of immigration' being ignored presupposes that the British public are as preoccupied with the issue as you are.

For you it is a big issue.

For the BNP it is definitely a big issue.

It isn't for me.

Or for the majority of voters.


As for blaming weaknesses in the overall economy on immigration in the first place, its like blaming cancer on water.

Although it just so happens that evn this gives an inaccurate picture as a comparison of unemlyment figures and iimigration figures shows clearly that the unemployment has been at its lowest and least unstable when immigration has been at its highest.


This however is merely an amusing observation. and does not demonstrate any significant relationship.

We know this because there is no evidence that immigration and the economy and employment levels are connected in any definable way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:42 PM

"Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep?"

                They probably figured they were there to plunder the country side, pillage the villages, loot the towns, and rape the women, just like the immigrants now.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:31 PM

They said, "Buenos dias. ¿Cómo estás?"

Like, what it is, hombre? Nice horns you have there.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM

Joe, please note Keith A's post above.

Below is a quote from the purloined "HOff Bridge" identity on the FAF facebook site: -

"Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership care for us, they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

The BNP care about the British people."



I think that maybe Keith has some explaining to do, hasn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:27 PM

Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep? I'll be it wasn't "Can I see your passport please"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:25 PM

i wonder just how many of us are however many generation immigrants?


from romans, saxons, danes, i am sure there are more but my brain does not work that well. in that case hailing from east anglia as i do, i probably am not completely english either, maybe i should be sent back to where ever i originated, good luck finding that out, i would be split into quite a few pieces.

jade x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:15 PM

All of Keith A of Hertford's posts reek of BNP propaganda carefully couched in acceptable terms (read polite);or is it just me?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

"Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?"

That'll be me then. Irish on my Mothers side.

I'm guessing in fact, that very many of us are 'second and third generation immigrants'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM

Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?

Are they people who have lived here all their lives and whose parents lived here all of their lives too?

Just wha makes them "immigrants"?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM

"The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue."

Personally I'm not prepared to wait that long, things have to be done and done now. For those who are prepared to sit and wait...have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

we are not talking about controlled immigration.
I was not speaking for just white workers.
Second and third generation immigrants are also in the line for housing, jobs, medical care and schooling.
I know that there are other contributing factors.
Denying that current immigration levels are hurting some groups in the population is exactly the attitude that drives them into the clutches of BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

Fairplay: 'As a historian with a special interest in the Spanish Civil War' you will realise that the Fascist forces banded together to eject a democratically elected Government. Cruel and bloody, yes, but to suggest that it was the democratically elected Government that started it is just wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:28 PM

Mike, if a friend of yours is engaged in activities that are injurious to society, you are
risking being victimized by these activities. For your own protection you must dissolve
the relationship immediately but it's ok for you to tell your ex-friend why you must do it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:22 PM

How many immagrants were responsible for the shortage of social housing brought about by the sale of council homes and government legistation to ban the building of new social housing stock? Was Thatcher black or asian? Did I miss something there?

What state would the health services be in now if it were NOT for migrant nurses and doctors?

How would infrastructure services quote if migrant workers were not doing the jobs that white people see beneath them to do?

Moving away from the high density, hard to let high rise estates, where migrants are housed by local authorities, what is the proportion of black/asian schoolchildren - for example in Richmond? Beaconsfield?

Blaming all 'social ills' on immigration IS racist and devisive.

Try looking at the impact of greed and distribution of wealth...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM

Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

When the issue of the BNP successes was debated on Question Time, immigration was the elephant in the room.
The only panallist who tried to raise the issue was an economist.
The three politicians and the trade unionist just changed the subject and carried on talking about electoral reform, vile fascists etc.

The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:32 PM

None has been denied free speech on this thread as long as they have met the forum's posting policies.   But free speech cuts both ways, and exercise my free speech to identify behaviour by BNP members that is socially unacceptable, and question whether when BNP members are exercising their right to free speech if they are telling the truth and whole truth.

People posting on behalf of the BNP have had countless opportunities to respond to the questions put to them and provide the evidence to back up thier assertions - but they choose not to, and because of this a very large number of us question their hidden motives.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

"Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition."


1. there is no evidence that the BNP do not have freedom of speech.

For example - on this site - there are NO restrictions.

BNP supporters on this site simply have nothing of any value to say.


2. There has been no "widespread" increase in "sympathy".

There was a reduction in the overall number of people voting so the BNP's share increased proportionately.

At the next election, partly as a result of many good people on this site, there will be a bigger turnout of voters overall.

When that happens, the BNP will be kicked into touch and will have to return to frothing at the mouth about their hatred of foreigners in their party "bookshops" again.

In the meantime, the BNP can expect to be ignored by their MEP peers. They don't have enough seats to make a difference.

And we the wider electorate will make sure that you lose those seats.

Back to your sewer filth!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:54 PM

Fairplay, you may be confusing "not being given the right of free speech" with people simply not wanting to listen - have you considered that?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

"Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition."

sounds like wishful thinking to me...oh and complete BS, and please STOP cloaking yourself in the flag of St. George and pretending you're a patriot and everyone who opposes BNP and UKIP policies is not. Speaking of history wasn't it Dr. Samuel Johnson who said that the last refuge of a scoundrel in patriocy? Speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 08:56 AM

Three posts from "fairplay" within minutes, all supporting the BNP, and she's never posted here before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 08:24 AM

"one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition"

Ha, ha, ha, ha! You're not much of a historian, fairplay (fair play, my arse!). Think back to Moseley where the majority stood up against the fascists. That's what's happening again with the current batch of fascists. Enjoy your flash in the pan - a flash is all it will be.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 07:56 AM

Oh Fairplay. You're back again!!! What a surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fairplay
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 07:51 AM

The BNP got almost a million votes in the Euro election (943,598 to be exact). In comparison, NuLabour got only 2,381,760 and was beaten into third place by Ukip with 2,498,226 votes. Ukip also wants a total halt to immigration and is regarded by some her as 'the BNP in blazers'.

Those determined to politicize the English folk scene are just accelerating the polarisation of British society, and this risks creating the very thing they fear.

As an historian with a special interest in the Spanish Civil War, I am mindful of the political climate which led to that cruel and bloody episode. A left-wing government with a powerfully-entrenched opposition turned a blind eye to the extra-parliamentary antics of its extremist supporters. The murder of the Conservative politician, Calvo Sotelo, by Leftist police (the ultimate realisation of the 'No Platform' policy) finally accelerated the path to war.

Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:54 PM

As another btw, three years back I traced one of the posters on a thread to another site: the site's name was (is) Stormfront. Mudcat has known for years what the nature of the BNP is. Well, I suppose the KKK will be posting soon--and maybe Aryan Nations. It's a vibrant democracy.



Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:50 PM

And btw, FUCK the British Nazi Party (aka the BNP).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:44 PM

It's great to see people responding the way they do--using their names, some even their names from real life. Takes guts. In the vernacular, "Good on ya."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM

I was using the term Nazi for the BNP trash three years ago on Mudcat. Few believed me or cared at the time. Yet this site gives them credibility by allowing them space and posts here. Go figure. There was ONE thread. Now there are three.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:38 AM

"Just saw this on the United Against Fascism website.

"British National Party (BNP) gain its first two seats in the European parliament. BNP candidate Andrew Brons, a former stalwart of the National Front...."

Just about says it all doesn't it?"

"We already know they're Nazis."

"Andrew Brons, 61, started his nazi career in the National Socialist Movement"

WE already know...*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:41 AM

Maybe we shouldn't refer them as "the BNP" any more than we generally refer to their role model as "the NSDP" - the same abbreviation used then should be used now. Call them "the Nazis".

But we shouldn't overestimate them - remember, the Nazis got a lot fewer votes in this election than the Greens did.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Lock and Key
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 11:40 PM

My apologies: that post about Bron was found on a blog somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:44 AM

"As a result, Yorkshire and Humberside are now represented by this man. "

He certainly doesn't represent me, nor does the UKIP buffoon, Godfrey Bloom, even though he lives in the same village as I do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:54 AM

Whoops - I meant to write "the opposite is also true in this particular case!"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:52 AM

To answer Cllr's question right at the beginning of this thread...

Billy Connolly said something like: "politics is very simple - if you wouldn't talk to them in a bar, don't f*%$ing vote for them!"

I think that the opposite is also true.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:28 AM

Amid the doom and gloom, don't lose sight of the fact that the BNP didn't increase their polling numbers over 2004. The reason why they won is that the overall numbers of votes went down. Given the amount of despondency which the expenses scandal and the recession have generated it is actually very encouraging that more people didn't run flying into their arms. In any event, this might be just what we need to galvanise people into stopping them from getting any further.

" http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/Andrew-Brons.php " It's welcome news to hear that Colin Jordan is dead at last. I hadn't realised. he was quite a force in the ultra-right up to the early '70s. Then he was caught stealing three pairs of women's knickers (coloured red, funny enough)from a Tesco store, and faded into utter discreditation. He said in his defence that it was a frame up by a Jewish owned company.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:19 AM

Hear hear Gervase. I was always amused when one could refer to the "Beaverbrook" newspapers.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:08 AM

The same 'dear old Daily Mail' that backed Mosley and the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s, and which, in 1934, ran an editorial headed 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts'?
It's always been a reactionary paper which plays on the fears of 'Middle England'. Alongside the cruder, less-polished Daily Express, it carries a heavy responsibility for driving people into the arms of the BNP, even if its policy today is ostensibly anti-BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 04:40 AM

I'm beginning to wonder how the dear old Daily Mail would like to be associated with the particular reader here. Of course, they are unlikely to find out.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 04:39 AM

It sure as hell doesn't worry me. As SPB-Cooperator has quite rightly said Yorkshire and Humberside have 5 other Euro MP's. And now this 'person' is there along with his 'Leader' all will be able to see how useless and hateful they really are. Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't in my mind. And I see that the COWARD GUEST-Daily Mail Reader has reared its head and celebrated the winning of 2 seats out of 64 stating 'Democracy is alive and well.' Couldn't agree with you more GUEST-Daily Mail Reader, democracy will keep the BNP where it belongs, a minority!
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:59 AM

No, the racists and lowlife of Yorkshire and Humberside are. Everyone else is represneted by 5 other Euro-mps

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:56 AM

Interesting that the other candidates walked off the stage and would not be seen standing alongside when the BNP candidate made his acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:08 AM

I went to see Billy Bragg last night. As humane and reasonable as ever, he argued that the worst thing we all have to confront is cynicism. We should all believe that we can make a difference, and that each and every one of us has the right and duty to confront evil wherever we find it.
As I see it, the BNP's two seats were handed to them by the collective cynicism of the electorate. As a result, Yorkshire and Humberside are now represented by this man.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 09:35 PM

i have worried about this happeneing for ages and it feels like all my nightmares are coming to life at once.

i know i am not alone in being horrified at how many votes the bnp have got. 2 seats is way more than there should be!!!!!!!

I AM VERY ANGRY that the appathy of the country has let this happen.
DMR you cannot acually gloat, it is only the lack of voters that has allowed the bnp in NOT because they actually earned peoples respect and votes. will fight you all the way my FRIEND and send you back under your' rock once more, we have done it twice now and there will be a third time, so don't get used to daylight.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 08:36 PM

No worries, you are still effectively powerless. No one will do deals with you and noone will listen to you.

You will draw attention to yourselves in Europe as the idiots you are, your voters will realize that you are one dimensional and not actually representing their needs one bit and then you will disappear back into the sewers like flood water after a storm.

You got nothing in London where I am.

You'll never get your way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 08:15 PM

We have just got another seat ! This is really turning out to be a night to remember. It's simply historic. Democracy is alive and well.



Well done Nick.

Good night and the Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 07:57 PM

Hello Yorkshire and Humberside. You might like to know more about who you voted for.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/Andrew-Brons.php

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 03:42 PM

No, they call him that because he's a man of cllr.






Blue.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 03:40 PM

I thought that 'Cllr' comes from 'Councillor'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM

If the BNP and 'Restraint' had anything remotely to do with each other I might agree with you.

But they don't - ever.

Be under no illusions.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 02:35 PM

Mudcat may not be the place to deal with accountability. I realize in the UK that practically everything is right next door, but in the US things are so well spread out that many, many people here never will cross paths IRL unless they attend the same festival, and travel far to do it.

Also, if I start a thread titled "The Sky is Blue," for example, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm looking for a debate on skies, blue things, etc.

My sense (since 2000) is that Mudcat was designed to be a place of sharing, not dividing. (It certainly operates better in that mode, in practical terms, in most of the site's features.)

I think there is much that these two people have in common, which would probably be one reason they were friends to start with. Restraint may be one of those things. I like it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 02:29 PM

"I appreciate that neither MBSGeorge not Cllr appear to have posted again to the threads they started on this topic. Great restraint."

Your optimism says a lot that is good about you Susan, I don't know that it says much about MBSGeorge ...

... Maybe Cllr is showing restraint, maybe not, to start a conversation and then not participate in it is a curious state of affairs, but I suggest that MBSGeorge's silence is more to do with having no leg to stand on.

She is in an utter state of denial if she thinks she can run for public office on a BNP ticket and then somehow, in a democracy, not be expected to account for her decision.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jun 09 - 12:47 PM

I appreciate that neither MBSGeorge not Cllr appear to have posted again to the threads they started on this topic. Great restraint.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM

Good on yer Dick. It's the old story fortunately- they got big votes (somertimes over 20%) in restricted areas, but no wider effect. The Ordinary British Working Bloke is angry, but not stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 05:10 PM

I would tell GEORGINA SIMMONS/DALE to get stuffed[and thats polite].
I told Fianna Fail in less polite terms to get off my f###### property,and thay are not fascists,just right wing politicians with their noses in the trough,so if I met her face to face,I could not account for my actions.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

Yeah John I found the weasel already *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 03:10 PM

I suggest you go here: thread.cfm?threadid=121408&messages=15
as DMR has turned up there. Shows you what a total w**nker he/she is.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 12:32 PM

"Oh Christ Lizzie. I stopped believing in magic whan I was about 3"

now we know what the problem is...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 11:49 AM

so this is where the poster Paco Rabanne nicked his name from...*LOL*
Fashion Runway Comeback

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 11:38 AM

As of last night 2069 seats had been declared, of which two went to the BNP. In other words, the BNP has gained 0.1 per cent of the seats available.
There are 28 'other' candidates that have been elected so being a random nutters seems to make you 14 times more likely to be successful than if you espouse the BNP.
Now where's that Daily Mail Reading arsehole when you want to crow and rub his pathetic face in it?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 11:10 AM

"I just love waking up you old hippies! You are so complacement to point of being comatose."

I' m FAR too young to have been a hippie..Paco.(is that a good old Anglo-Saxon name? *LOL*)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 10:55 AM

"When either side becomes that powerful, they tend to govern dictatorially. The will of the people is forgotten when there is NO effective opposition."

Absolutely Don.


The first past the post electoral system is utterly outdated. It is time for PR


Finding it hard to unearth any info on the BNP in local government? ...

Who?

ha ha.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 10:48 AM

Thanks fellas. What I was after was some idea of whether their support had increased, or by how much, in the light of the current Westminster farce, the recession and all the other bogies they're trying to capitalise on.

From the look of it, the electorate has overwhelmingly given them the cold shoulder, especially in view of the fact that the other minority parties seem to have done much better. Hopefully, we'll still be able to say that tomorrow night

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Boho
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 10:27 AM

Anyone know how many candidates they put up, and hence what their success rate was in the local elections?

Here's hoping for an even more pathetic showing for the fascists in the Euros when results out tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 09:10 AM

The debate in councils is still to the left of the Tories. Its when the main opposition is to the right of the Tories we need to worry most. But I would also be wary that with the amount of control the Tories have, the closet facist might pull them mor eto the right.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 09:04 AM

"They seem to have three councillors, which is three more than before."

                And with the large Tory win, they have successfully moved the public dbate to the right.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Boho
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 07:43 AM

They seem to have three councillors, which is three more than before.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/local-election-results-map-2009

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 07:04 AM

I've been all over the media trying to find the size of the BNP vote in the local elections and can fgind hardly anything.

Does anyone have a breakdown of numbers of seats won or lost and where, and how the vote compared with pervious elections?

Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 06:21 AM

hear hear steve, when i read of what the church has done in the past it makes my blood run cold. from the witch trials to the rack and burning with hot pokers, basically anything doesn't shed blood, and that was to the british people!! what i have read about them converting other nationalities is even more appalling. the amount of wars over religon is incredible. just for the record PACO RABANNE, WE WERE A COUNTRY OF PAGANS TO START WITH NOT CHRISTIANS, if you want to complain about being converted you should really have started with that. i find that i cannot forgive or forget what the church has done and as so i will not enter a working church, i have no wish to be a hypocrite!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 06:04 AM

"To be really really serious for a moment. England has recently been swamped with muslim immigrants intent on our destruction or conversion to the Muslim faith"

This is the kind of racist and fundamentalist claptrap that leads to race violence.

I have many Muslim friends and colleagues who I would uphold as model citizens. No-one has ever tried to convert me to Islam, an likewise acquaintances who follow other religions who also live and let live.

There will always be fundametalists in all faiths, and to be honest 'Christians' don't have that good a track record - read the history of the Aztecs and Incas, and how 'Christians' treated Black Africans until not to long ago.

So fill me in.... how many thousands of people in UK have been dragged into a mosque and tortured until they convert? Maybe it happened to you???

How many millions in this country have been murdered because they will not convert?

How many non-muslim children in th eUK have been taken away from their families and placed with 'good muslim parents'.

Before making totally unsubstantiated racist statements, look at our own shameful track record of what we have done in the name of Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 03:27 AM

I just love waking up you old hippies! You are so complacement to point of being comatose.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 03:08 AM

""Funny really - I never thought I'd be glad to see a Tory win an election. Apart, of course, from our own Cllr Mike Gibson, who started this thread, and who has regained his seat in Bedfordshire after working bloody hard for the people there.""


Funny, I thought I'd always be glad to see a Tory win, but I can't help feeling that THIS kind of total wipeout isn't good for either the winners or the losers.

When either side becomes that powerful, they tend to govern dictatorially. The will of the people is forgotten when there is NO effective opposition.

The major fault of the last two governments, Tory and New Labour, has been the seemingly inevitable drifting off into a place where they have lost touch with REAL life.

At least the OLD Labour people knew who they represented, although one or two were terminally crooked, or incompetent.

I think I'd want to see a much closer balance than that at the general election.

Still, at least the BNP got their answer; A RESOUNDING NO!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 10:50 PM

I guess that's not really an opinion. If he says he's sick, he's probably sick.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 08:41 PM

"I am a white Anglo Saxon male who is just sick to fu7ck of being told what to think by the clattering classes!"

You are welcome to say whatever and think whatever you like.

You are free to think that the sun is a big orange if you like.

But You'd be wrong.

There is no evidence to support your opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 05:28 PM

OOps! Steve said a naught word. Sorry forum, I'll try not to let it happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 05:23 PM

Unless there has been a cookiejacking, Paco Rabanne has been posting here as a member for yonks.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 05:18 PM

Paco Rabanne

The people have voted and BNP and there racist attitudes got nowhere (2 out of 2036 councillor in 30 county/unitary councils with 4 to officially declare).

If you don't like living in what from the majority viewpoint is British Society, then fuck off to some deserted island where you can play white supremacists to your hearts content and prove to the rest of the world that your vision for society works.

But two things.....

(1) Don't expect any help form the rest of us.
(2) Who will you blame when you mess up? - you will have to find some minority or other from your master race - the overweight, the too short, the too tall, those who wear glasses?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 04:03 PM

"'Mass immigraint will be the ruin of this country'"


                  It will be the ruin of the world!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

i don't know what happened there, my pc decided i had said enough.

what i was going to ask is, is there any way of finding out if this new troll is posting from the same place as dmr?

as for you new friend paco rabanne, if you really don't like how this country is at the moment, feel free to move elsewhere. we would miss the sparkling conversation. i don't have a problem with immigration but i do have a problem with people not TRYING to learn the language i would at least rty if i was in another country.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:33 PM

Is this the same Paco Rabanne that posted this two years ago:

I work in the Construction Industry, and we employ a hell of a lot of Poles (at Full English payrates incidentally) because we simply can't get enough English bricklayers/joiners etc.
Every man jack of them is polite, courteous, hard working, and most speak better English than I do.
My new NHS dentist is Polish too.Three of them set up a practise near us thank God!None of my family have had an NHS dentist for years since all the English greedy bastards went private!!
                        Up the poles!
So, what's happened to change the tune, or is it the colour of the skin that's important?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:33 PM

"Mass immigraint will be the ruin of this country"

Hmmmm...that`s what the locals said when the Anglos-Saxons invaded England, a thousand years ago or so...really you shouldn't fall asleep in history class!!

being racist is a problem...YOU have a problem. enough said.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:27 PM

ah it seems we have another freind. have you actually read this thread? probably not.

can we find out

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:12 PM

No I haven't. I am a white Anglo Saxon male who is just sick to fu7ck of being told what to think by the clattering classes! Mass immigraint will be the ruin of this country

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:07 PM

"Paco Rabanne"
troll alert!!

I have no problem with Muslims
being non white (North American Native) myself I have every sympathy with them, however I have NO sympathy with racist low-lives.

I notice like all the racist trolls who visit this thread, you have a hard time with your spelling "Paco Rabanne"....you,ve got a problem.....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:02 PM

To be really really serious for a moment. England has recently been swamped with muslim immigrants intent on our destruction or conversion to the Muslim faith. Not only do we let them in we fund them through the social services, when are we, the indigenous race going to be allowed to have our country back? Do we have to be beco9me an endandagered to get our own island back?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 02:52 PM

Well, it looks like the Conservative Nina Phillips won the Cepen Park and Redlands ward. So tomorrow doesn't belong to the BNP in Chippenham, with only 114 people voting for the race-hate party.
Funny really - I never thought I'd be glad to see a Tory win an election. Apart, of course, from our own Cllr Mike Gibson, who started this thread, and who has regained his seat in Bedfordshire after working bloody hard for the people there.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 02:48 PM

vote BNP, shove it up the rectucms of our elellers and betters

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 02:43 PM

so the big question is how many votes did this woman actually get?

does she admit to making a VERY BIG MISTAKE and if so should and could the freindship ever get back to normal?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 11:08 AM

It appears the loud-mouthed DMR has crawled back under the stone from which she/he first appeared, no great loss....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 06:06 AM

the BNP do not deserve a vote,they have no more idea of how to make the capitalist system work,than my dog.
they thrive on negativity.but their solutions will not turn economic slump into economic success.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 05:31 AM

Looks like they haven't got that many friends after all ...


Don't let your friend off the hook too soon. They need to show they understand what is wrong with the BNP if they are to be believed.

I would meet up with them but I would damn well have the argument with them and see just how much they have really rchanged their ways.

As long as they uttered one racist point of view I would think up ever more effective ways to blow their argument out of the water.

Ideally I would ultimately do so in such a way that they had to admit, whatever about the evil of BNP views, that they simply aren't based in reality and their is no evidence to support them.

Evidence speaks louder than any argument (I know thats rich coming from me)and if you can provide evidence that proves your BNP friend wrong so that they can't deny that you are right, then that might be the way to wake them up.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 04:33 AM

This is a thread about the BRITISH NAZI PARTY AND THEIR FRIENDS

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 04:12 AM

"The Conservatives have retained overall control of Lincolnshire County Council in the local elections - but it was the manner of their victory that looks ominous for Gordon Brown and Labour.

The local authority was one of only a handful of councils to hold its counts after the closure of its polling stations and the results were being studied beyond the East Midlands ahead of the counts later.

And Labour was nearly wiped off the county council's electoral map altogether as the Tories made sweeping gains.

The threat of an early BNP breakthrough never materialised. A small number of independent candidates scored victories.

2009 © Press Association

So, DMR, what drivel to you have to give us now?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:59 AM

Well, it depends...
If she's realised what a bunch of creeps the BNP are because she's discovered at first hand the ignorance, paranoia and hatred that drives them, then I hope she's now sitting thinking, 'Why the f*ck did I even think of doing that?'
And, armed with that experience, she can now tell people exactly why a vote for the BNP is a vote for intolerance, division and discord, and that no-one should be taken in by the bland, quasi-wholesome image the party tries to put over in its public offerings.
But if she hasn't seen the heart of darkness within the BNP, or if she willingly embraces it, then I'd imagine that any friendship with normal people would be difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:46 AM

It does matter if ex friend still remains a BNP member. But I would say something like - reflact on the result at the polling station, look at all the evidence about what BNP is really about, and let me know where you stand from now on as the door to rebuilding the friendship is open, but the onus is on the personto take the right step.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 03:38 AM

So what do you all say to Mike (and me) when our ex friend (mbsGeorge) turns up and says - well I wasn't elected so it doesn't matter any more!

Suggestions please.

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:46 PM

I wonder if The Netherlands are any indication!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:59 PM

The battle against the racist BNP and their thugs will go on regardless.

remember and learn:
The White Rose: A Lesson in Dissent

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:40 PM

Well, to coin a phrase it is all over now bar the shouting (count). The good folks have done their best to help people see through the lies and deceit of the BNP with evidence for what they really stand for.

Maybe it has had an impact, maybe not.

But this isn't the end of the work. If the BNP have won seats, then as folkies, and in particular anyone who has any affinity whatsoever to the civil rights movements, and the liberties that were hard fought for, we owe it to our consciences to scrutinise the words and deeds of BNP both in and outside local and European authorities so that promotion of racial division, fascism and neo-naziism in any form is brought to public attention.

Steve Belsey
Anti-Facist

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:43 AM

you don't have to say who you voted for that is your' own business, although anyone who does vote for the bnp and i know that is NOT you r.m!! beware admitting it on here,watch out because they might just get lynched. no threat just a friendly word of warning

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:35 AM

It' s done, for good or ill, I've voted. How did I vote? That's the joy of the secret ballot, you don't have to say, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:16 AM

As I said somewhere else earlier today - a refusal to vote is a vote for the BNP

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:08 AM

To anyone who hasn't voted....

Be grateful that you live in a country where you have the freedom to express your choice of representative at the ballot box and look back at states where facists have come to power and taken away that freedom.

Vote, and think carefully about who are are voting for and why.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:41 AM

http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/invite/pollingday

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:23 AM

Been and done it. Some agonising about whether to vote Green or Socialist Labour, but in the end the only effective way to vote against the British Nazi Party and the almost as loathsome conservatives was to vote Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:25 AM

Do not forget to vote today. If you want to make a protest vote don't base it on what the BNP say, but look at all the evidence in this thread that shows that the BNP are a party of racist, facist bigots.

Also, remind your friends to vote.

And keep your finger crossed that after today Britain and Europe will not be a nastier place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:23 AM

Just on my way to do the deed. The good news is that the latest MORI poll puts the BNP on 4%, which is not enough for them to make the breakthrough. That is still contingent on decent numbers of decent people turning out to vote for any of the other parties of course.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:13 PM

What Fred and Jeddy said. Please make sure you use your vote to ensure this openly fascist, proudly racist party don't get a genuine foothold in British politics. If they do we'll all be regetting it for a long time. There is no justification for their politics of hate. A protest vote for the BNP is a vote for bigotry. Don't go there.

Hope not hate.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:46 PM

my postal vote has gone already so my concience is clear. i hope everyone else can say the same in two days time and not sit there thinking "i could hve stopped this" may the gods look down on us with mercy and contempt for the bnp.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/A-Z-of-the-BNP.php

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:32 AM

The following has been said several times on this thread already. Nevertheless, it is important that it is repeated at least once more before the polls close tomorrow night.

If you're resident in the UK, please make sure you get out and vote tomorrow. That applies for the local elections obviously, but even more so for the Euro-election. That one is particularly important because the results are decided by proportional representation and a share of the overall vote.

Voter apathy would mean that the BNP only needed to convince a very small percentage of the overall electorate, and they have been campaigning like mad for weeks now. They will certainly get their own supporters into the polling booths, even though there's not many of them. But there's also an indeterminate number of people out there who may end up voting BNP simply because they are disaffected by the present MPs' expenses scandal. Therefore a low poll could easily end up with the BNP taking seats, not by the democratic will of the electorate, but by default.

DON'T LET IT HAPPEN!

No British fascist has ever held major political office. If British Nazi Party members become the first ones to do so, that will be a huge triumph on their part. What's more, it will unlock shedloads of EU funding for them to spread their vicious logic, and it will give them a forum to cosy up to all their fascist mates in the EU parliament.

If you're so cheesed off that you just don't feel like bothering, remember the words attributed to that wise old sage, Edmund Burke. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Don't be one of the ones who let evil triumph.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:37 AM

I think I should point out that freedom of speech does not include the right falsely to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre - see Oliver Wendell Holmes, US Supreme court, Schenck -v- US 1919.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:16 AM

""I visited the BNP site last night and there are a lot of World War Two veterans smiling in photographs out on the campaign trail for the party."

The Nazis were very good at using doctored photographs, mind you the allies also pulled the same trick once in awhile.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Gren
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 10:38 AM

My home town was visited by a bunch of BNP creeps, weirdos and bigots last saturday.What a shower!They came armed with a bunch of leaflets and a camcorder and a generous dose of race hatred.

Luckily, they were met by around 20 anti fascists with a megaphone who were only to willing to speak out about the BNPs race hatred,fascism and nazism.And they did not like the photocopies we brought with us showing Tyndall the first BNP leader in full nazi uniform posing in front of a framed picture of his hero, Adolph, and a giant swastika.

They weren't too keen on the present leader fatboy Griffin in his racist white power T shirt leading a nazi National Front march.And those misfits,cranks and thugs certainly did not like being called, via the megaphone , nazi thugs and bigots.What a collection of oafs !

No wonder Griffin had to send out a training manual to all his candidates and activist thugs.
Gren

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 09:20 AM

She's not Cornish though. She lives in Devon. I've forgotten where her roots are - but it's not Cornwall!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,BRITISHMAN
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 06:10 AM

I thought te flag was BRITISH and not just England, CORNISH PASTIE, BUT THEN cORNWALL DOESN'T FEEL AS IT BELONGS TO ENGLAND

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 05:15 AM

"I visited the BNP site last night and there are a lot of World War Two veterans smiling in photographs out on the campaign trail for the party."

Would those be soldiers who fought against the enemy that carried out the Holocaust your miscreant leader denies actually happened?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:03 AM

My dad fought in WW2 as well. He wouldn't talk about it.

It doesn't prove anything.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:02 PM

thankyou lox, i know my memory is shot but i didn't think i was mad as well. well for now at least i know i'm not.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:03 PM

Just to confirm that the above posts are all mine.

Though I do worry sometimes that by not signing in every time I run the risk of being impersonated.

At the moment I am only to be found on this thread and the even more partisan Susan Boyle thread.

And I am now signed in and will not delete my cookie tonight if that offers any reassurance.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:10 PM

My father was in the RAF at the end of the war, and my mother was an evacuee.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM

my father and mother both fought in the second world war, and they too hated any form of racism of any kind and so do I

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:05 PM

Here Here

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:56 PM

>>>RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader - PM
Date: 30 May 09 - 12:55 PM

Every time I submit a detailed response to your questions, someone deletes it ! So direct your questions to them, not me.

I listened to a very moving interview on the radio this afternoon. Yet another World War II veteran, 82-year-old Joe Randall, has come out to bat for the British National Party in the wake of the childish anti-BNP smears launched by the Tory leader and the media in recent days. He spoke with such love for our country and respect for the party.

Mr Randall, who is now playing an active part in campaigning for the BNP in the South West, always wears his campaign medals, won while serving in the paratroops during the war, passers-by to see.

Mr Randall joins numerous other World War II veterans who have come out in support of the BNP over the past few weeks. So far the party has at least three Royal Air Force WWII veterans, including at least one Spitfire Battle of Britain pilot, several Royal Navy veterans (including some who took part in the Dunkirk, Tirpitz and Atlantic Convoy campaigns) and a good sprinkling of D-Day veterans.

These heroes put their lives on the line to fight for Britain all those years ago, and it takes a special kind of person to come out and fight for Britain once again. <<<


My Dad fought in WWII, and you want to know why? He fought for freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of life. He fought against a man who wanted to annhilate an entire race. He fought to ensure that people like the Nazi's would never again come into power.

I met Douglas Bader. Do you remember him? The man who lost his legs, but was so determined to beat Hitler and the scum who surrounded him, that he literally gave all he had to learn to walk, to enable himself to get back in his plane and stop the bastards from what they had planned on doing.

If Douglas were alive today, he'd be out there talking about the scumbags who called themselves the BNP - the Bloody Nazi Party...and urging everyone to take the Flag of England BACK from those who, for way too long, have sought to abuse it.

So don't bring you're snivelling, cowardly, disgusting, wind-up words to me, daring to make out that those who fought in WWII support the BNP, because they are the very ones who went to war to STOP folks like you from ever taking a stand again.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:26 PM

Prob because cookies needed resetting

I got an email from searchlight and tomorrow they are organising a last-ditch hope not hate campaign.


Get involved if you can and you are against hate politics

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:54 PM

did i turn two pages at once?   lox why does it say GUEST LOX i thought you were a member?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 03:01 PM

THERE IS NO ROOM ON THIS SITE FOR HATE. NOT WITH THESE GOOD PEOPLE YOU DON'T- TAKE IT ELSEWHERE. NOT HERE AND NOT WITH THESE GOOD PEOPLE. NOT EVER!!!!!!!! I KNOW OF NO ONE HERE THAT WILL TOLERATE HATE AGAINST ANOTHER. START YOU OWN WEBSITE AND TAKE YOUR BNP, BPN, KKK OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THE THING AND THE HATE GROUP WITH YOU

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:29 PM

i have the same problem, my typing is fine but my keybored makes mistakes. it has dislexia.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 11:46 AM

"Once QWEre Warriors"

arrrgghhh......! I definitely a new keyboard...that SHOULD read Once Were Warriors! (either that or use spell check more often *LOL*)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 11:19 AM

"but it reminds me of a similar programme which the Australians had with Aborigines. As in the film, Rabbit Proof Fence."

The film Once QWEre Warriors highlights the Maori experience in New Zealand.

To bring us full circle, back to the Nazies (BNP) there was this experiment performed before and during World War II, which scarred thousands in much the same way as the groups we've already mention

Hitler's Children

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:42 AM

""I have a sneaking suspicion that I know who this Daily Mail Reader is.....but I dasn't say it.""

You are far too nice a person to want to do anything of the sort Sorcha.

PM me, if you feel inclined, and I'll do the job. When it comes to dealing with bigots in general, and racist bigots in particular, I am ANYTHING BUT a nice person.

It would give me the greatest pleasure, providing you are reasonably sure of the identity, to out the despicable little turd.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:30 AM

jOhn, somewhat simplified response, don't you think you should at leats give the friend a chance at redemption? p.s. thank you for getting us back on point.

cllr, does this friend know exactly what she has gotten into and has she changed her mind yet?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 10:21 AM

bnp are rubbish, tell your freind to leave bnp or he's not allowed to be your freind anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:41 AM

Just because I am a sometimes-student of history and a notorious pedant, I see a need to throw this in. The BNP are clearly racists, and their platform is focused on this single issue. The Nazis were certainly racists but the National Socialist Workers Party had a very solid set of political and economic goals (like them or not), which attracted many early party members as much as, if not more than, their "Aryan" focus on Germany for the Germans and the Greater Reich. It isn't really correct to refer to the BNP as Nazis...they have all of the Nazis' truly wretched qualities but none of their somewhat better ones.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:34 AM

"Lox is right. Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves."

Hopefully. And if they don't, we could always resort to the old-fashioned British practice of shoving a red-hot poker up their arses. That'd help Quasimodo Griffin shed his hunch. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:47 AM

Lox is right. Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

If you believe in your case and believe in the intelligence of the reader, there is no need to ban them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:34 AM

"However, what does not sit comfortably with me is where an individual deliberately lies in order to enforce their view point where this has not been expressed in open debate."


I understand how you feel. But I've come to realize that our honesty is our strength and their lying is their weakness.

Every lie that has been told on this thread can be shown to be a lie.

Everytime one of their lies is shown to be a lie, it chips away at their public image.

Goebbels controlled the information in Germany in the late thirties and early forties.

The BNP have no such control of information. It is easy to provide refutations of their lies and there is nothing they can do about it otheer than wish they had stayed quiet.

Of course this doesn't mean we need to wait for an invitation ... we can expose their lies without them asking us to do it first.


Remember that the point of these arguments isn't to try and convert BNP faithful, but to ensure that uninformed undecided voters make the right decision.

Supplying all relevant information and exposing lies is the best way to ensure this.

Every lie the BNP tells is a nail in their own coffin.

Every post from a BNP suporter on this site is a window into their corruption.

Have faith in your arguments and expect lies and your arguments will endure and lies won't surprise you.


Above all, stand tall!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:12 AM

That's what I would do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:11 AM

I agree that all individuals are entitled to voice their opinions, no matter how distasteful they are. From my understanding it is a fundamental human right, just as much as I have an equal human right to state my opinion of the person voicing their opinion.

However, what does not sit comfortably with me is where an individual deliberately lies in order to enforce their view point where this has not been expressed in open debate.

If the BNP want to spout their neo-nazi and racist views openly here that's fine with me as the thinking population will see them for what they really are. If they want to use an open debate forum to help secure a position of power to then carry out neo-nazi and racist actions, that isn't fine.

Fir that reason, for every statement where BNP continue the pretence of being moderate, it is up to us to continue to provide evidence to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:02 AM

i couldn't agree more with everyones right to speak out lox, however i don't take seriously anyone who doesn't own up to their identity and truely believes in what they are saying. to everyone who has posted under their real name or known nick name i might disagree with you but you have my respect for having the guts to stand up for what you believe in, even though the majority of us are against you.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:53 AM

I could have said just this ...

Any opportunity to discredit Nazi propaganda and to expose its lies is a good one as it reminds those who have forgotten why they should never be given any power.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:51 AM

I understand the feeling of wanting to prevent the BNP or its supporters from posting here.

I've got into some nasty rows over racism here.

But I have changed my approach for two reasons.

1, the first thing that happened was that I read a coment by Bearded Bruce that I could not disagree with or the whole foundation of my world view would have collapsed.

It was this "I may utterly disagree with your opinion but I will fight to the death for your right to speak it."

Anyone who has read my posts will know that BB and I are on opposite sides of a grand political canyon, but on this point I utterly had to agree with him.

2, As a result of having to adapt my approach to support peoples right to give their point of view, I realized that there isn't really any need to panic, because on a written chat forum, attempts to advance a fascist ideology are very easy to dismantle.

This thread has confirmed that for me. I am glad that it is here as someone surfing the net one night, looking for info on the BNP, might stumble upon it.

If you read back over this thread and you imagine how it would look to anyone with an open mind, it is clerly an utterly one sided debate.

The anti BNP arguments are substantive, relevant, rational, and above all they are supported by verifiable sources.

The BNP supporter(s) on this thread haven't actually advanced an argument, they have just made a lot of unverified claims.

Every claim they have made has been disproved by verified counter claim.

It is good that BNP supporters be placed in this context as it shows them up for who they are despite their attempts to appear reasonable.

They would have been better off sticking to their own chat forums where there is no opposition to embarass them.

Any opportunity to discredit Nazi propaganda and to expose its lies is a good one as it reminds those who have forgotten why they should never be given any power.

A healthy democracy absorbs them.

Push them underground and they are like a baby alligator flushed down the loo ... they get bigger in the dark and emerge to find us unprepared.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 06:30 AM

Mandotim."Without zero, modern mathematics (and therefore the whole digital world) would be impossible."

Exactly. It is part of the ethnophobic dogma of the BNP that Europe invented everything worth while and then used its brains and ingenuity to civilise the rest of the world, who then turned their ungrateful backs on us. As anyone with half an open mind knows, it just didn't happen like that.

Someone on this thread provided a link to a documentary, the first 20 minutes of which are now on Youtube, but which was originally broadcast by the BBC. It contained a clip of John Tyndall making a speech. In it he said that the only things which Africa ever gave us were witchcraft, voodoo, black magic and AIDS.

He might have mentioned that Africa gave us vast mineral resources, gargantuan amounts of raw materials and several million slaves, without which the industrial revolution could never have happened. Oh sorry, no. Those things were stolen from Africa by sheer naked imperialism. And as part of white attempts to justificy the conquest of Africa, a whole litany of myths and lies was spun about the 'inferior' natives. A litany which the far right continues to gorge itself on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: mandotim
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:45 AM

Does this mean nothing was invented in India?;) Seriously; the importance of that invention is always underrated. Without zero, modern mathematics (and therefore the whole digital world) would be impossible.
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:21 AM

Peace. 00 is a double figure . . . .

It isn't. It is zero. Zero is a concept invented by Indian mathematicians and it spread to Europe from there via Arabia along with many other cultural innovations. Where? Yes, that place which acording to the BNP breeds nothing but terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:51 PM

FUCK THE BNP AND ITS SUPPORTERS.

And to hell with this. I don't want to be on a forum that gives help to these people.

Great policy you have here.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:46 PM

Yeah. Good policy we have here. The Daily Mail reader is now making nice and starting threads. Check out the Titanic thread. Wow. I am sooo fuckin' thrilled. Nice works, huh? Reasonableness? All that shit?

R I G H T

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:40 PM

"The irony of it is that if you measured the collective IQ of the entire BNP I would be surprised if it got into double figures."

00 is a double figure . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:41 PM

Fred,

I did know but I hadn't seen or heard it expressed so openly.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: robomatic
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:28 PM

I was going to contribute some song lyrics from Capitol Steps about David Duke that go back to his days running for political office in the US, then when I did a search on them I see that I posted it in Mudcat four years ago, but hey it's just a few lines so here goes again:

From Capitol Steps (by memory)

I am a David Duke supporter
He says his Nazi days are gone
Now once again he's at J C Penney's
Seems they've got a giant white sale on.

He went to see a plastic surgeon
To give his face an aryan trim
Now Michael Jackson's gone Anglo Saxon
Duke wants to be more white than him

chorus:
Stand By Your Klan...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:56 PM

I'm not going to engage in a hypothetical racism vs survival debate. Nor will I debate whether an undeclared racist is worse than a declared racist.

My final statement on this thread is that BNP's racism is so heinous that I sincerely hope that they don't win any seats in this election or any other election that they enter.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:42 PM

Well, as far as racism vs. survival, I suspect it's a matter of degree and not everyone's threshold will be the same, of course. I'm of the personal opinion that is something isn't done about population growth we'll be fighting wars over air and water, but that's just an opinion.

               Yes, I purposely used the word "declare" in reference to Hannity and Limbaugh, because there are people who profess not to have a racist bone in their body, yet all of their actions speak of racism. Others, like David Duke for instance, openly declare themselves to be racist. I don't know if one is better or worse than the other. I suspect an undeclared racist would be easier to reason with, if push came to shove.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:41 PM

Thanks for answering, Riginslinger.

With regard to your answer, and putting aside that in my opinion the word declare is the operative word in your sentence that "they [Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity] are extreme right, but do not declare themselves to be racist", I'm very disheartened to see that for you the issue of runaway immigration trumps the issue of racism.

If indeed there is runaway immigration, I hope that people who can vote would not vote for a party that says it will do something about that issue but that "something" is shaped by such heinous positions on race and the "disabled, to gays and to anyne else that they deem to be non pure british super race."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:25 PM

Azizi - Being from the US, I suppose I just kind of aligned the BNP with somebody like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, both of whom are extreme right, but do not declare themselves to be racist. When I did a little research on the BNP, I found them to be openly racist and regret having made the comments I made earlier in the thread. I apologize for comments I made earlier such as "the BNP (being) what the planet needs."
               All of that having been said, I think runaway human population growth world wide is the most destructive force on the planet, and if measures are not taken to do something humanely about it, the planet as we know it will not survive.
               I do not, therefore, agree with the BNP on race. However, if I were voting in an election where they were the only party willing to do something about runaway immigration, I might look on it as the only choice for survival.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:44 PM

Riginslinger, on 29 May 09 - 04:21 PM you wrote

"In view of the reality that the most major threat to the survival of the planet is runaway human migration, maybe the BNP is just what the world needs."

And on 31 May 09 - 11:14 AM you wrote

"Sorry. I was being flippant and this thread is probably not the place. Yes, I was a little too arrogant as well in my first few posts. I didn't realize the BNP was as radical as it actually is until I looked into it further.

Still, I think runaway population growth and migration will feed the BNP, and that party's strength will grow unless conventional political forces deal with these problems very soon".

-snip-

I'm still interested in knowing what part of the BNP do you consider to be radical (or "extreme" to use the word lox thinks that you meant).

I also am still interested in knowing do you agree with the BNP's positions regarding race.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,member
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:34 PM

"The irony of it is that if you measured the collective IQ of the entire BNP I would be surprised if it got into double figures"

I imagine they can spell "anyone" lol

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:06 PM

Lox. "their attitudes extend to the disabled, to gays and to anyne else that they deem to be non pure british super race."

Did you not know that? After the death of David Cameron's son, one of the London BNP organisers was heard on Radio 4 saying it was just as well he died because if he'd lived he would only have corrupted the gene pool. Small wonder that Cameron went ballistic on them just the other day.

The irony of it is that if you measured the collective IQ of the entire BNP I would be surprised if it got into double figures.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:46 PM

So much for the BNP controlling their loose canons ...

... the link that Snail provides is extremely illuminating.

They are not only racist, their attitudes extend to the disabled, to gays and to anyne else that they deem to be non pure british super race.


I am remonded of a post earlier on on which Nick Griffins Quasimodo-esque appearnce was beautifully lampooned.

As for the faces of the other BNP heads in the Snails article, it looks like the poster for the film Trainspotting.

Bunch of crims the lot of 'em!!

I think Riginslinger meant extreme not radical. I don't see him advocating the BNP anywhere, just making observations about how they might be able to gain support.

For those of us who wish to counter such an eventuality, this is an important thing to consider.

Rigs first comments come across to me like ironic humour.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:08 PM

I didn't realize the BNP was as radical as it actually is until I looked into it further.
-Riginslinger

I'm curious, Riginslinger, what parts of the BNP do you find radical? Do you agree with that party's racist positions?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:14 AM

"Sorry. I was being flippant and this thread is probably not the place."
                   Yes, I was a little too arrogant as well in my first few posts. I didn't realize the BNP was as radical as it actually is until I looked into it further.

                   Still, I think runaway population growth and migration will feed the BNP, and that party's strength will grow unless conventional political forces deal with these problems very soon.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:18 AM

no they wont because they don't like the truth I have asked members of the mudcat cafe for answers to my questions and some do answer and some of the others don't so don't hold your breath

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:07 AM

as good as your spelling of my initials... Rudolf Hoess' testimony

(I should have ignored the spell checker)

I've answered your question, now answer mine.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Member
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:03 AM

SPD, Why would the BNP be interested in the HEOSS (High Earth Orbit Space Surveillance)?

You are as good Jeddy at the spelling !! lol

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:29 AM

Dear BNP,

Why does your leader deny the holocaust in spite of Rudolf Heoss'   testimony to the Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal:

COL. AMEN: I will omit the first paragraph and start with Paragraph 2:
"I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 to 1 May 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz.. I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This?figure represents about 70 or 80 percent of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries; included among the executed and burned were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of prisoner-of-war cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944."
That is all true, Witness?
HOESS: Yes, it is.


That's just Auschwitz...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:30 AM

i will join you gladly.   

i jade rose, will stand up for people who have been the victims of racism and injustice and do everything in my power to change attitudes to those of acceptance and tolerance

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:15 AM

Does anyone want to join me in the following pledge?

I Steve Belsey, folk singer and musician, pledge my opposition to all forms of hate crime, and as such will do everything in my power to oppose, by word or deed, organisations and individuals engaged in, inciting, or advocating such crime.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:35 AM

Exposed: ugly face of BNP's leaders

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 May 09 - 04:53 AM

Rifleman,

Sorry. I was being flippant and this thread is probably not the place. Discrimination on any grounds, race, class, colour, creed, sexuality or whatever is a terrible evil, and it can have terrible consequences.

This is the first time I've heard about Canadian attempts to 'assimilate' the Native American population, but it reminds me of a similar programme which the Australians had with Aborigines. As in the film, Rabbit Proof Fence.

"Fred, as I've noted already my complexion isn't the same as theirs. I've fought racism all my life and will fight it till my last breath. I've seen what this sort of trash can do to families and to individuals.

"Fred if you have a moment take a look at this lie.
Residential Schools

"In 1928, a (Canadian) government official predicted Canada would end its "Indian problem" within two generations. Church-run, government-funded residential schools for native children were supposed to prepare them for life in white society. But the aims of assimilation meant devastation for those who were subjected to physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Decades later, aboriginal people began to share their stories and demand acknowledgement of — and compensation for — their stolen childhoods.

"For this we have to thank trash like the BNP."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:51 AM

ooops! omitted 'don't' from 'stray from the part line' :)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:47 AM

Gervase, most of DMR's posts (apart from taunts to members he seems to know quite well) come word for word from the BNP web page so he/she is unlikely to be a loose cannon if they stray from the 'official' line.

I have my suspicions, as I said earlier, that our 'guest' may simply be an older 'troll', who had a good run for their money last year, in new clothing.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:57 AM

A good point well made, Lox.
Sadly I don't know if we'll be able to goad people like DMR into showing their true colours, however dim they might be. The BNP high command is apparently so paranoid about 'loose cannons' shooting their mouths of in places like this that everyone has had a reminder.
"particular care should be taken when making comments on chat forums and other sites such as Facebook. Do not make the mistake of thinking that comments posted on these sites are secret or hidden. Making inappropriate comments on these sites will be regarded as a very serious disciplinary offence. Please ensure that this message is passed quickly to all members in your area and that it is acted upon. We are entering a very critical time in our party's history and cannot afford careless and stupid talk that can undermine the hard work of our activists."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 May 09 - 08:12 PM

wow lox, you said that better than i ever could have.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:48 PM

Lox - I agree with everything you said above. The point I was trying to make--and I too made it badly--was simply that there are physical realities going on in the world that lend political support to the BNP, which have nothing to do with identity politics.
                Overcrowding, and dwindling services could cause voters who would normally not have a racist bone in their bodies to side with the BNP simply to stop the crowding.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:15 PM

Meself,

You're right that I expressed myself extremely badly earlier.

I'll and explain myself more clearly.

Wherever it has existed, racist violence and discrimination has left a deep painful legacy of mistrust, paranoia and resentment.

Dealing with the consequences of racism and undoing that legacy has proven to be an extremely tough task. It is something that we do as a society, something that we do as individuals and something that we do as racial groups.

The legacy of racism takes many forms and is different for different people depending on their personal history, on the area where they live, and of course on their racial identity.

The one thing that all these different legacies have in common is that they affect all their respective sufferers on a deeep and fundamental level.

I am white and am amazed and horrified that such irrational hatred can be inflicted with such inhumanity by alleged humans.

From the Final Solution to the Slave Trade, from the starvation of the Irish to the murder of chinese civilians during WWII, I feel a cold weight in the pit of my stomach as if I have swallowed a gravestone.

The thing that all of us in the west, and I believe everywhere else until someone proves otherwise, want to be able to do without hindrance is live our lives with equality and freedom.

But the legacy of Race hate complicates that.

It complicates it for A guy I know who is consistently top salesman in his office on the phones, but won't accept a promotion to met clients face to face because his dreadlocks and black skin combined with his 6' 4" stature mean that prospective clients often can't wait to get him out the door due to their irrational fears.

It complicates it for an Indian Girl I know who hasn't been in touch with her family ever since she decided to stick with her white boyfriend.

And it complicates it for some white folks who are afraid that as a result of race hate, they are now objects of hatred from Black or Indian folks.

This is not an irrational fear. There are many Blacks, Indians, Irish etc who still feel a lot of resentment for having to battle to be equal citizens and there are some who don't trust whites to mean it when they say that they seek an equal society.

But then there are some whites who feel that it wasn't them who committed acts of racial hatred and who therefore feel resentful that they should have to be so paranoid and stressed out.

Understanding is the key.

Goatfell shouldn't have to worry about being called racist because he identifies somebody by their skin colour. In a room full of white people, the only black guy can more easily be identified by his skin colour than by his preferred type of cheese.

On the other hand, rifleman should feel absolutely no obligation to tell anyone what his skin colour is. It doesn't matter. It isn't relevant. On a thread about a party that discriminates against people for not being white, anyone who isn't white is free, if they wish, to identify themselves as being in that category. This is directly relevant to the topic.

If there was no BNP there would be no thread about them.

If there was no thread there would be no discussion of racial politics.

In which case rifleman and Goatfell would probably be talking about folk music and not have the faintest interest in each others racial identity.

If there were no racial politics Goatfell would have nothing to be paranoid about.

If there were no racial politics Rifleman would not need to identify himself with any racial group.

Both dilemnas are the result of Racial Hatred and as a result of the politics of groups like the BNP.

Rifleman and Goatfell, in my opinion, your disagreement is false and part of the legacy of race hate.

You should blame the BNP and similar groups for the fact that it never seems to go away - not each other.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:09 PM

You too, jeddy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:07 PM

what will we be looking for on youtube next week?
i can't wait to see you in action. have fun RIFLEMAN. take care everyone including friend who hopefully will see the error of their ways. we will await with baited breath for your' next pearls of wisdom. see i just can't help myself. stay happy all x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:52 PM

You have a great time, Rifleman. Thank you for your kind regards.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:39 PM

'"I think members will note the very subtle moments when I was able to take a certain member down a notch or two."'

Also, I would be remiss were I NOT to point out that this is patronizing. Ya need to get more fibre in your diet, the result of which will occasion the necessity of you removing your head from your arse. Kiss, kiss.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:37 PM

Have a lovely rest of the weekend, Fred, Sorcha, Peace,jeddy , etc...I have band rehearsals tomorrow, all day, plus some more editing of video footage that will find its way onto youtube within the next week or two.

Peace to you all.

DMR and Riginslinger...special places in hell are reserved for you two! (in words you can understand)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:34 PM

Well, Rifleman, I have no hard evidence....just clues and a 'feeling'

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:31 PM

"have a sneaking suspicion that I know who this Daily Mail Reader is.....but I dasn't say it"
the horror! the horror!

DMR get running, I prefer a moving target *LOL*
(I really do know how to use firearms (and bow and arrows, of course) by the way)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:26 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that I know who this Daily Mail Reader is.....but I dasn't say it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:22 PM

As for closing this thread: YOU sir didn't start this thread. Cllr did. He can request it be closed and maybe HAVE it closed, but YOU can't.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:20 PM

"I think members will note the very subtle moments when I was able to take a certain member down a notch or two."

If that remark was addressed to me, dream on. It was actually something Lox said on a different thread that 'toned me down' a bit.

That said, fuck the BNP. I support neither their policies nor their fascist horseshit.

There. That's pretty polite.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:40 PM

Fred, as I've noted already my complexion isn't the same as theirs. I've fought racism all my life and will fight it till my last breath. I've seen what this sort of trash can do to families and to individuals.

Fred if you have a moment take a look at this lie.
Residential Schools

In 1928, a (Canadian) government official predicted Canada would end its "Indian problem" within two generations. Church-run, government-funded residential schools for native children were supposed to prepare them for life in white society. But the aims of assimilation meant devastation for those who were subjected to physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Decades later, aboriginal people began to share their stories and demand acknowledgement of — and compensation for — their stolen childhoods.

For this we have to thank trash like the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:23 PM

i have tried to ignore our friend but everytime i read his latest drivel the response comes automatically, the subject is too emotive and it is clear to me that we are all very passionate about our own views. most of us are clear headed, reasonable people who love debating, whatever topic is in front of us, we need to start ignoring our friend before we start to disagree and fall out amongst ourselves, which is exactly what the bnp and our friend wants.
divide and conquer.   
well friend it won't happen as we are too intelligent to let you win.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:17 PM

"If I ever need to ask myself why I hate racism, I look in the mirror."


                         Why, are you a racists?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:11 PM

Rifleman.

No such luck I'm afraid. The bastards are all the same colour as me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:07 PM

If I ever need to ask myself why I hate racism, I look in the mirror.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:56 PM

Better than closing this thread, I suggest that we all agree to ignore the rantings of DMR, plus those of all his other aliases, and get on with the business of seriously discussing the threat to democracy and freedom which the BNP poses. I know this board is supposed to be about music but a lot of us clearly hate the BNP and all it stands for, and with good reason. Therefore, the off-topic section seems about as good a place as any for us to exchange ideas/information about how we as musicians, singers, dancers or just plain punters can help in decapitating the hydra.

The BNP impinges on music activity in too many ways for us to allow this thread to degenerate into a mudslinging match between DMR and everybody else. I'm thinking not just of the fact that their sales arm markets CDs of musicians and singers who wouldn't touch the BNP with a bargepole. Nor am I thinking just of the way the BNP is trying to ingratiate itself with the folk revival and with folk calendar customs.

Music is one of the strongest proofs we have of the emotive and sensate and intellectual unity of mankind. Yes, I know that Beethoven sounds nothing like Ravi Shankar. But every human society on earth creates music. And though it may assume all manner of cultural facades, we are all moved by it. It makes us laugh and cry. It makes us angry and happy and joyful and sad. In every corner of the world countless generations of mothers have rocked babies to sleep with it. Numberless crowds of bereaved mourners have overcome their grief with it. Millions upon millions of distressed lovers have found comfort in the stuff. And it has stiffened the resolve of people the world over to withstand slavery and despotism and exploitation and brutal imperialism.

If I ever needed to ask myself why I hate racism and chauvinism and nationalism and fascism, I would not have to look any further than the thousands of records which I have collected during my lifetime from all over the world. Because however different the sounds may be that they produce, all those Balkan bagpipers, those flamenco guitarists, those Irish fiddlers, those African griots, and those Islamic 'ud players, are all saying the same thing. It is that beneath the different skin tones, beneath the vast variety of human cultures, we are all the one people, because if we weren't we wouldn't all be making music.

And lest anyone thinks we haven't got a problem of comprehension, here's one reply to an email I sent asking people to use their vote in the Euro-election, thereby ensuring that the BNP don't get in by default.

"if you believe in free speech then you should stop this ridicules scare mongering nonsense they have the same right as I to hold or teach their political ideologies I do not agree with anything the bnp stand for but what you are doing is insulting the rest of the free thinking population and is just as bad as they are. Its exclusive bigotry look at yourself b4 you point the finger at anyone in fact don't point your finger its rude!!!"

No, the guy isn't some closet racist or far right conservative. He is in fact someone who has done an enormous amount to extend and propagate our knowledge and enjoyment of pre WW11 jazz and blues, and many other forms of Black music. It's great and sterling work, but somebody ought to tell him, just what would happen to his record collection if the BNP ever came to power, and which concentration camp he'd be consigned to.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:55 PM

DMR may be right about closing the thread though. I can't see it serving any more purpose and I think it's been proved he/she can't answer straight questions.

--
OT but every time I see the name DMR, I'm reminded of a factory I worked in. A DMR there was a Defective Material Report, a document raised by goods inwards QA when material arriving on site was found not to be to drawing.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:45 PM

DMR simply wants the thread closed because he/she can't win.

A message to both DMR and Riginslinger and here endeth the lesson.

If ignorance truly is bliss, both of you must be orgasmic

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:53 PM

'May I suggest we close this thread'

Either I'm having deja vu or this DMR 'guest' is beginning to sound and behave very much like the homophobic troll who went under the ironically inappropiate name of 'joy bringer' 12 months ago.

Anyways folks check out the 'responding to hate speech' thread for example and make your own mind up

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:41 PM

May I suggest we close this thread
Oh dear - not only does this pusillanimous little twerp refuse to answer some straight questions but now he cuts and runs.
As I said, lack of moral fibre. It's exactly what you'd expect from the BNP.
Before you do run away with your grubby tail between your legs, DMR, how about an answer to at least one of those questions I posted?
C'mon - just one answer shouldn't tax you too much...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:13 PM

Joe - DMR claims you are deleting his/her postings. Is he/she lying?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:09 PM

May I suggest we close this thread. Some of you created a major thread drift. The poster asked a question and I replied to it. As for me, the debate is over, so please accept defeat and move on.


Best of British to you all.

Enjoy your weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:05 PM

A Holocaust survivor and Second World War veteran last night begged Britain: "Don't give power to the Nazis."

Gisela Feldman, 84, and Ken Reilly, 83, joined the Daily Mirror Hope Not Hate bus in Manchester to ask people to vote against the BNP in next week's European elections.

Gisela was 15 when she fled Germany in 1938 as the Nazis killed her father.

She said: "We cannot allow the fascist BNP into our politics no matter what they promise. "I lived through the Nazi regime and remember the Brown Shirts marching through Berlin.

We didn't know of the hatred flourishing beneath."

Ken fought in the Royal Armoured Corps during D-Day and the Battle of Arnhem.

He said: "We must look through the BNP's false brandishments. Hatred is an abomination and we must vote for hope not hate."

Comic Eddie Izzard, who joined us at the Imperial War Museum North, said: "Meeting Gisela and Ken reminds us of the sacrifices their generation made so we can live in a hate-free society. But now, 60 years on, we've got the BNP dragging us back in time.

"Voting against the BNP is to vote for hope against hate."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:04 PM

Answer the questions....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 May 09 - 01:01 PM

"Babblespeak in all its glory, wuth (sic) just the right amout of ignorance = BNP"


                      I would agree, ignorance is the problem!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 30 May 09 - 12:58 PM

However: every time Rifleman has mentioned that he is "non-white", Goatfell has reacted with indignation, and insisted for some reason that Rifleman be more specific. Finally, Rifleman has (good-naturedly) given in and allowed that he is darkish brown. I thought that would put an end to the matter, but ...

Lox, maybe I need to spend more time on it - but for the first time, one of your posts makes no sense to me. Just don't know what the heck you're trying to say. Probably doesn't matter, though; if I did know, I'd probably be in agreement ...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 12:55 PM

Every time I submit a detailed response to your questions, someone deletes it ! So direct your questions to them, not me.

I listened to a very moving interview on the radio this afternoon. Yet another World War II veteran, 82-year-old Joe Randall, has come out to bat for the British National Party in the wake of the childish anti-BNP smears launched by the Tory leader and the media in recent days. He spoke with such love for our country and respect for the party.

Mr Randall, who is now playing an active part in campaigning for the BNP in the South West, always wears his campaign medals, won while serving in the paratroops during the war, passers-by to see.

Mr Randall joins numerous other World War II veterans who have come out in support of the BNP over the past few weeks. So far the party has at least three Royal Air Force WWII veterans, including at least one Spitfire Battle of Britain pilot, several Royal Navy veterans (including some who took part in the Dunkirk, Tirpitz and Atlantic Convoy campaigns) and a good sprinkling of D-Day veterans.

These heroes put their lives on the line to fight for Britain all those years ago, and it takes a special kind of person to come out and fight for Britain once again.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 12:29 PM

Rifleman,

Understanding cuts both ways.

There are numerous legacies of racism in the modern age.

One of them is that innocent white folk feel, as a result of their good nature, a sense of responsibility for the misdeeds of not so innocent white people.

Of those innocent whites, there are those who find this an unacceptable burden.

This is justifiable.

Why indeed should a non racist person have to put up with the paranoia caused by racism.

It isn't fair.

I know that you are referring to earlier comments shared between you and Goatfell on the subject of his distaste for feeling like he has to step on eggshells when he hasn't done anything wrong.

What Goatfell doesn't get is that it isn't the PC crowd who made Race an issue. It was the Racists.

So it isn't fair that non-white people should fear a political organization that targets non-whites.

It isn't fair that a person who falls into that category should be asked to explain exactly how - the simple fact that they do is reason enough to protest such an outrageous policy.

And it isn't fair that Innocent white folk like Goatfell feel they have to be paranoid about what they say.

The truth is Goatfell that every Black, Brown and Yellow friend I have actually shares your view, and I know from a million positive experiences that you can distinguish between fred and John by saying "john is black but fred is white" its no big deal and sensible.

The thing that black/white/asian people all don't like (and that includes me goatfell and rifleman) is when someone discriminates on the basis of our colour and not on the basis of our character, personality, qualifications, personal history, sense of humour, talent, commitment etc.

I discriminatee on the grounds of character integrity etc, which is why I find the BNP so utterly repellant.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 11:24 AM

actually there isn't any such thing as a white person, you're all somewhat pinkish....me? I have a darkish brown complexion, being that I am native North American (or an Indian as some folks like to call us*LOL*)

Oh and one small thing, goatfell, if colour doesn't matter to you, why did you, why do you bring the subject up in the first place?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 May 09 - 11:09 AM

In an attempt to emulate groups such as the French National Front, with which the BNP has close links, Griffin has devoted himself to making the BNP electable by publicly toning down the BNP's hardline Nazism.

This moderation is only skin deep.

Replying to criticism from other parts of the far right, Griffin has told a private meeting of American nazis and racists that while the BNP needed to change to get elected, his core beliefs - that of the superiority of the white race - remained his driving force.

In a recording that was broadcast on a BNP blog late on Tuesday night, and was later placed on the party's website, Mr Griffin said:

""As you know, we don't break the law. We never have, we never will .... Don't mind breaking the odd race law, or being accused of it, you know"

Mr Griffin was convicted in 1998 of distributing material likely to incite racial hatred

Racism cuts both ways
A 12-page glossy pamphlet launched in October 2008 is being distributed as part of a campaign to purport to prove the existence of a "silent epidemic of racist targeting of indigenous Britons".

It is full of racist venom directed especially at Muslims, whom it accuses of being "sickos", "paedophiles" and teaming up "to lure girls - often as young as twelve or thirteen - into a nightmare world of sexual abuse, rape, beatings, drug addiction and prostitution".

"Welcome to Oldham, the front line of the race war," a BNP officer told a party rally a few weeks before rioting broke out in Oldham, Burnley and Bradford in summer 2001.
After the riots the cover of BNP's magazine Identity sported a map of Britain with flames indicating towns where BNP-instigated race riots had already taken place and those where the BNP was still working on it, asking the question 'Is this going to be a long hot summer?'

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 30 May 09 - 11:07 AM

purple, green, red, orange these colours are all non-white, this is what I mean by PC they can't be honest and say that person is black or brown or white, I don't care, but I do when you mention non-white, pink with yellow pokeadots, that's non white.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 May 09 - 11:07 AM

"   Yes, in reality I do mean population growth is the larger problem. But places on the planet where population growth has been largely contained are being overrun by people from places where population growth has not been addressed in any manner.
                For the most part, it seems to me, this is a result of some unforgiving religion, but the result is the same.   The only immediate solution I can see is to make those folks stay home and deal with the problem. Once they bring things under control, normal migration could begin again.
                Further, it seems to me, you have to make a deplorable statement from time to time to get other people's attention."

Babblespeak in all its glory, wuth just the right amout of ignorance = BNP

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 May 09 - 10:47 AM

OK - 14 simple questions. You can use both sides of the paper. If you can provide a convincing answer to any of them I'll be surprised.

1: Disprove the 'lies' stated in this thread about the BNP. Maybe the trickiest one, so you might like to skip this and go on to...
2: Explain Nick Griffin's comments to the KKK meeting.
3: Do you endorse physical and verbal attacks on black and asian people?
4: Do you think that someone convicted of incitement to racial hatred is a fit person to lead a political party?
5: Did the Holocaust happen?
6: Do you agree with these statements from the BNP message board; Somebody should start major-league deporting them before some vigilante groups, somewhere, start major-league killing them in the streets...And, if I see one being honour-killed, somewhere, I'll develop deafness, blindness and complete social unawareness - it's amazing how suddenly we can be afflicted with such things, given how stressful modern life can be!? Are they acceptable?
7: Do you deny that one of the BNP's policies is to 're-patriate immigrants' (particularly non-whites) back to their country of origin?
8: What is your evidence for unprovoked violence against the BNP?
9: Is the BNP facing an inquiry into its funding after Nick Griffin paid a £5,000 political donation into his personal bank account without declaring it?
10: Was John Tyndall, the BNP's founder, a Nazi? Are the photographs of him, in a Nazi uniform with a swastika flag, genuine?
11: Why is the BNP aligned with hate groups throughout the world?
12: How many generations should one have to go back to prove 'pure British' stock?
13: Did two senior BNP activists try to smuggle under-age schoolgirls into the party's conference hotel, only to have the poor girls run screaming from their rooms?
14: Do you agree that 12 out of the BNP's 20 elected councillors have appalling records for criminality, non-attendance, dishonesty and incompetence (see here ).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 09 - 10:30 AM

2nd Question easy one.

If you put rat poison pellets in an all-bran box are they
(A) All bran cereal
(B) Rat poison pellets

Just answer A or B

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 09 - 10:06 AM

DMR,

Could you show us where you:

1, answered the questions put to you by Peace

2, answered the questtions put by Don

3, answered the questions put by Jon

4, answered the questions put by me.

5, won the argument


You could either provide links to the posts in question or you could cut and paste from them.

Alternatively you could simply quote them and provide the thread name and the date and time of the posts so we could go and find them ourselves.


Secondly, could you provide links to your sources so I can see where you get your information.


We would love to be able to listen to your arguments with a truly open mind and to learn how and wheere we have gone wrong.

However, this is not possible without the necessary evidence upon which you base your view.


The problem is, that as long as your opponents are providing evidence and you aren't it makes it look like they know what they are talking about and it makes it look like you're just making up a lot of fiction.


I trust that you will be able to provide us with these links so that we can move forward with the discussion.

By the way, so that you are able to really put up a successful fight, I would suggest that you use the BNP website as little as possible, since noone is going to accept that as an independant source.

Good Luck.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 09 - 10:03 AM

Simple quesrion.

Is a party whose leader or convicted of violating section 19 of the Public Order Act 1986, relating to incitement to racial hatred wothy of support?

Just answer yes or no

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 09:15 AM

Gervase, I have several times.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 May 09 - 09:12 AM

Could you answer the questions then, DMR?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 09:05 AM

I already did Jon.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:14 AM

I am. Can you explain those comments?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:06 AM

Sadly I see one or two of you are away on one again ! There is a general fear that the truth being told by the BNP will destroy years of indoctrination by New Labour. I listened to a speech by Nick last year with my grandchildren.It was one of the proudest moments for me and showed the kids just what Nick and the other chaps have done for this country.

Cameron is a Blair McBroon clone, plain and simple. They are formula politicians moulded to whatever shape the NWO deems fit for their purpose. Watching these marionettes posturing at PM's questions when they both share the same common goals is one of the most pathetic sights on TV, even their insults are half hearted.

Please keep to the point.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:05 AM

No doubt this is the same Jane sharon Carpenter who also writes on Facebook sites opposed to the racism of the BNP on the topic Christians against the BNP such bon mots as

'Yes, I have heard the story of the good samaritan. He helped one foreigner - not millions of them.'

and
'It preserves our Christian heritage. They can preserve their muslim heritage in their own country, It will also protect us from events such as 7/7.'

on the topic Christians against the BNP

when you understand the basic tenets of Christianity Jane come back and lecture us about friendship

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:04 AM

What was that George Orwell said about Newspeak?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:53 AM

DMR, can you explain Nick Griffin addressing American nationalists including a former KKK leader and saying this?

“There's a difference between selling out your ideas and selling your ideas and the British National Party isn't about selling out its ideas (which are your ideas too) but we are determined now to sell. What that means basically, to use the saleable words. As I say, “freedom, security, identity, democracy”. Nobody can criticise them. Nobody can come at you and attack you on those ideas. They are saleable.

Perhaps one day. Once by being rather more subtle, we have got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcasting media. Then perhaps one day, the British people might change their mind and say “Yes, every last one must go”.

Perhaps they will one day. But if you hold that out as your sole aim to start with, your going to get absolutely nowhere,. So instead of talking about “racial purity, we talk about identity”.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jane Sharon Carpenter
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:41 AM

I don't think you can be a very good friend if you get rid of friends or chose friends on the basis of their political views.
You have obviously been far too sucked in by all the media hype about the BNP. These days they are just another mainstream political party not that far off what the Conservatives were like a few decades back.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:39 AM

"BNP Exposed - The Secret Agent (BBC) Part 1"

Marvellous ennit. You've got one member of the BNP - a leading member as it happens, who also claims to be a biologist - arguing that black people are intellectually inferior and unpossessed of the moral dignity which characterises the advanced white races. And you've got another member who goes round shoving shit through people's letterboxes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:26 AM

now there is a very brave man, i hope he didn't get any comeback for this. so how can you argue with that dmr? the words of your'leader himself. are you going to try to justify it or are you well aware that you cannot? please please please give some response and not just spout your' usual, sidestepping crap

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:42 AM

BNP Exposed - The Secret Agent (BBC) Part 1

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 May 09 - 05:03 AM

And, having just re-read your latest post DMR, I really think you need to seek some sort of help.
One rarely encounters something so delusional outside a psychiatric ward or a Berlin bunker.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:58 AM

Whoa! And once again the pocket propagandist neatly sidesteps the questions put.
Even if DMR was promoting the Women's Institute, I think anyone would be entitled to be miffed if s/he so wilfully refused to answer questions.
So, come on DMR, prove to use that these accusations of racism, violence and criminality are 'lies'.
A fiver says you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:37 AM

Why so much anger,is it because we enter the last week of polling ?
We had a debate and some of you did not seem to accept defeat. The debate was pretty feisty,attacking the only party that has the best intentions of the British people at heart. In my opinion, the clear winner of the debate was the BNP. I feel my case was solid and strong on domestic issues.

One or two of you depended on supporters in the crowd, that says it all. There were a few times though, when you allowed your anger to get out of control. I think I understood your message,but the messenger needs to find a better delivery. Ranting never helps in a debate, I know there are those who praised the restraint shown by me. I think members will note the very subtle moments when I was able to take a certain member down a notch or two.


But believe me when I say, the British people won this debate, not just me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:43 AM

The BNP is a vile bunch of racists,thugs and fascists.
It has only ever had two leaders.
Its founding leader was John Tyndall an open nazi who liked to parader around in full nazi uniform.He can be seen on "google images" in his nazi regalia under a portrait of his hero Adolph Hitler and in front of a huge swastika.He had six serious criminal convictions for violence and race hate crimes.
His successor, Nick Griffin, is an ex public schoolboy who has been involved in far right and racist politics for decades. He was a member of the thuggish National Front and has a 1998 conviction again for a race hate crime.He is a denier of the murder of 6 million in the war which he called the "holohoax".
But the BNP is stuffed with violent criminals at all levels...from the convicted bomb maker and violent thug Tony Lecomber [a senior aide to Griffin ] to the Swansea BNP member Robert McGlynn who was convicted three years ago of shouting racist obscenities and giving the Hitler salute to a passerby.
The BNP is the party of Law n order?I don't think so!
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:18 PM

Maybe zero value, but it has a growing appeal to larger numbers of people because nobody will do anything about runaway population growth and migration.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:38 PM

""Anyone would think the little Goebbels wannabe had something to hide.""

Yep!......He has.

The fact that his single brain cell can't handle questions AND answers.

And the three days a week when it's at the BNP laundry being washed, it can't handle either.

The pity of it is, NOTHING seems to stop the gob from producing inane drivel.

He,s truly entitled to FREE speech, as what he says has zero value.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:30 PM

question. why do we import and export so much of our resources?

would it be that bad if we kept local food for local people? i'm not saying that we stop importing stuff just cut down abit surely there is a better way!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,tuborg
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:54 PM

One country that did recover well from the last great depression was Germany as a matter of fact, actual economic fact, they fared better then any other country as the history books show.
Unlike Obama and Brown they used their own resources to rebuild the economy, thus recirculating the monies injected into said economy.
the US UK model for recession beating has the obvious flaws that it will suck in more imported goods, fuel another house price bubble and be bled dry by another surge in oil prices.
Many economists fear this as there is no more borrowing to be had after the current round. We would be left with the only option of pawning our own remaining natural resources.
China on the other hand has steadily been buying bonds and other countries national resources and will be well placed to emerge as the new world power.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:40 PM

"I have put my case across fairly"

What case?


Would you mind telling us where we can find this case?



Or perhaps cut and paste it?



There is no evidence of any pro BNP case on this thead.



Just a slightly weird repetetive BNP zombie breathing heavily down the phone.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:34 PM

"Best of British"

That would be my Grampy and he would never have voted for the BNP or any party like it. FYI and just to put that remark in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:23 PM

the barrage of easily-disproved lies
Well, DMR, disprove them, then.
Come on, or are you completely lacking in moral fibre?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:44 PM

The one thing we all have in common is we believe in the democratic process. I feel I have put my case across fairly and not called anyone names, or used swear words or posted lies.


Some just simply would not accept they lost the debate, their series of cut and paste articles against the BNP simply didn't hold water. You may note I did not respond to the barrage of easily-disproved lies against the British National Party. This is something which is almost unparalleled in any political debate ever held here.

The stories and lies some posted became too fantastic for any sane person to believe, the attempt to influence people with a barrage of lies is of concern to anyone who holds the democratic process dear such as I.

I don't attack your political views, a few of you launched a co-ordinated smear campaign against the BNP in an attempt to undermine the growing public support for this party.

As I am a reasonable person, I will not say anything nasty against any of you, even those who masquerade as voters in the coming elections.

Good night and the Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:02 PM

"Rig, surely you mean 'population', not 'migration'? ...your remark is deplorable"

               Yes, in reality I do mean population growth is the larger problem. But places on the planet where population growth has been largely contained are being overrun by people from places where population growth has not been addressed in any manner.
                For the most part, it seems to me, this is a result of some unforgiving religion, but the result is the same.   The only immediate solution I can see is to make those folks stay home and deal with the problem. Once they bring things under control, normal migration could begin again.
                Further, it seems to me, you have to make a deplorable statement from time to time to get other people's attention.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:43 PM

I repeat,

Let people make their own reasoned choices when they vote, fully aware of the kind of 'people' they would be voting for if they vote BNP. I woundn't waste my breath trying to convonce the skinheads and racist thugs who support BNP to vote otherwise.

However, those with a modicum of intellegence I am doing everything in my power, along with all the other good people in this thread to make sure the truth of what BNP are about, not on the basis of their propaganda but o the basis of what they do and say when they think they are not under scrutiny and where they emerged from.

And by the way, don't even talk about facism until you learn what it wa s like for ordinary people to live under facist dictators like Franco, Pinochet, Salozar.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:28 PM

"In view of the reality that the most major threat to the survival of the planet is runaway human migration, maybe the BNP is just what the world needs." Rig

Rig, surely you mean 'population', not 'migration'?   Even if you were able to keep all immigration out of the US and other developed countries, that would not cure the planet's ills.

I simply fail to see why a human being born in one part of the world has less right to survive than a human being born in another part.

By the way, I think your remark is deplorable.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:24 PM

me thinks this Riginslinger is a pot stirrer...feeling a wee bit nervous are you Riginslinger...we're everywhere.we're everywhere...*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:21 PM

In view of the reality that the most major threat to the survival of the planet is runaway human migration, maybe the BNP is just what the world needs.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:58 PM

"Clearly they are unable to defeat anyone in a democratic debate"

Well, DMR, no one will get the chance to defeat you, because you daren't even join any sort of debate here.

A typical cowardly Nazi - just like your hero Hitler, all gob and no fuckin' balls.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:09 PM

"The British National Party would probably make it into a parliament elected by proportional representation, too. It would shine a torch into the dirty little corner where the BNP defecate on our democracy, and that would be much more powerful than duffing them up in the street — which I'm also in favour of."

- Billy Bragg

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 May 09 - 02:17 PM

"I repeat, allow everyone the freedom to vote for the party of their choice."

I totally agree. Given the system of proportional representation in the EU parliament, the only way to stop this miniscule bunch of fruitcakes and hate merchants is by large numbers of people turning out and voting for whichever party they prefer; whether that preference be Labour, Tory, Lib-Dem, Green, No2EU Yes to Democracy or whatever.

USE YOUR VOTE ON JUNE 4TH. DON'T LET THE BNP IN THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:57 PM

I repeat, allow everyone the freedom to vote for the party of their choice.

I find it fascinating how the other parties are nicking bits of BNP policy, making out as if they're doing something original, and then attacking the only party who had the guts to talk about issues long before they ever did?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:29 PM

So, DMR, a distinct lack of moral fibre there. What have you got to say for yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:14 PM

isn't it about ime we stopped trying to get answers from our friend?

i just cannot be bothered anymore, apart from to say that on the thread 'memorial' it just shows what we are arguing about. no veteran would ever back the bnp, thousands of people died to keep us safe from the likes of bnp and combat 18 who are trying to be like their hero hitler. i think that these peoles' brain are wired incorrectly and no amount of reasonable and educated disscussions will ever change their minds.
it is good fun though, i have to admit but we must never forget the cost to get us here.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:52 AM

" Clearly they are unable to defeat anyone in a democratic debate."

Hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:47 AM

You know what DMR? I really don't care what you do. Democratic debate? You haven't a clue sunshine

I'm not your kind, DMR and I thank God daily that I'm not. I'm one of those sorts that the BNP wants to sling out of the UK, you know, an immigrant and non-white, and proud of it!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:41 AM

Rifleman I am very happy to hear you're a talented musician. It must be very rewarding to get paid for what you enjoy doing. I would call myself a a multi instrumentalist. I have played in a couple of folk groups, but not for a living !

I honestly feel the attacks on the BNP is an indication of the increasing desperation of opponents.I accept some of the above posts are from trolls and people trying to wind people up. Clearly they are unable to defeat anyone in a democratic debate.

The rising popularity of the BNP speaks volumes, the site's web rankings had broken through the 20,000 most popular site in the world mark, and 1.600 in the UK !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:25 AM

Funny how the Daily Mail Reader won't answer any of the questions asked. Anyone would think the little Goebbels wannabe had something to hide. A bit sad, really, when someone comes along, trolling about how great their party is, and yet they're actually ashamed of some of the darker truths. More than sad, actually - pathetic and rather cowardly.
So, DMR, a distinct lack of moral fibre there. What have you got to say for yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:17 AM

Sorry. Delayed posting. My previous message about the resemblance between Nick Griffin and a puppet, referred to Emma B's posting; How the BNP would like to teach children. I wondered how long it would be before they reinvented Hitler Youth camps. What other kinds of camps are they planning to ressurect, I wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:13 AM

Note the distinct resemblance between Nick Griffin and that puppet.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:11 AM

"I see some trolling on the BNP website this morning too. Do not feed the trolls who sew discord and have no purpose in life but to antagnoise. Please ignore them, then the Trolls go back to their holes."

Pay attention to your own advice DMR

OH and...."but if you had any sense of reality you'd find something constructive to do....

I do. I'm a performing musician and I teach piano,arrangement and music history. In other words I work for a living.

And what is you actually do? I mean apart from practice political opportunism

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:11 AM

"There doesn't seem to be any sort of overview to put it into context."

It's always been the way with the teaching of history in schools. It's why bizballs like the BNP can con those with a slightly shaky grasp of the history of our Islands into believing their flights of fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:53 AM

BBC news 6th April 2009

History will remain a "central part" of England's primary school curriculum, Children's Secretary Ed Balls has said.

The idea children would learn to use Twitter and social networking sites at the expense of the Victorians and the Tudors was "just complete nonsense". ...

"Children will be taught the broad chronology of major events in Britain and the wider world - from ancient civilisations through the Romans, the War of the Roses, the industrial revolution and the world wars to the modern day."

What Cameron actually said...

"We should be proud of what we have achieved as a country. Teaching people about the British Empire does not mean covering up the bad things that happened.
It means having an honest explanation about the good and the bad"

How the BNP would like to teach children

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:45 AM

Possibly it's the way history is taught nowadays. My daughter learnt about the Romans and about the Tudors as topics. There doesn't seem to be any sort of overview to put it into context.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:36 AM

Look up Key Stage 1,2 and 3,4 History - which refers to history related to cummunities, Britain, Europe and the Rest of the World.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:29 AM

"The lady questioner later reported to our correspondent that she had expected Mr Cameron to express his opposition to the non-teaching of British history in schools,"

er ok ...

Will people join me in expressing their opposition to the building of a 100 mile high penis on the roof of buckingham palace?

No?

Why not?

Because it is a figment of my imagination?

Like the idea that Bitish history isn't taught in our schools is a figment of the BNP's imagination?

White supremacist purity indeed ....



... a Pigment of the imagination!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Noreen
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:57 AM

A BNP candidate in the local elections wants to withdraw because she doesn't want people thinking she is racist...

Don't vote for me, says BNP candidate

Doesn't say much for the selection perocess, or the calibre of selected candidates!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:48 AM

Yawn.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:40 AM

I see some trolling on the BNP website this morning too. Do not feed the trolls who sew discord and have no purpose in life but to antagnoise. Please ignore them, then the Trolls go back to their holes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:43 AM

QED

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:06 AM

Some BNP are still not 'on message'

'Police were called to Eltham High Street when a black man was attacked by two white thugs said to be 'defending' the British National Party.

Michael Coulston, 43, from Lewisham, saw the argument start while he was handing out flyers urging shoppers not to vote for the BNP at the European elections.

He said: "A couple of guys kept walking past and shouting stuff which defended the BNP. They said the BNP acts to protect the British people.

"But then a black guy shouted out that he was British too. An argument started and then the two white men started punching and kicking him."

Officers from Greenwich police were called at 1.22pm but the attackers fled before they arrived.'

Local news report

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:51 AM

"DMR is simply a propagandist"

Possibly, Jack. More likely he's just a troll, a 'Windsor-Knot' kind of character (maybe one and the same) who achieves what little sexual pleasure he's capable of by anonymously trying to wind normal people up.

His aim isn't to engage in discussion, just to piss people off - hence the drivel he posts, and the complete lack of responses to any of the questions that have been directed towards him.

Best to ignore him.

I say 'he' and 'him' - might be 'she' or 'her'? Or 'it'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:48 AM

An old soldier told Tory leader David Cameron yesterday he was a disgrace to British politics and I agree. Georgie Johnston told Cameron he was deeply offended as was all the World War II veterans who support the British National Party at his remarks about the party. Georgie Johnson is a D-Day veteran and long time activist and former candidate for the party.

Reacting to the pathetic outburst against the BNP made by Mr Cameron yesterday, Mr Johnson, who wears his medals proudly, said it was a "gross, ignorant and childish insult which showed a total lack of moral and intellectual integrity to call people like myself who fought the Nazis, by that name," Mr Johnson said.

Mr Johnson said that he and the many other World War II veterans (such as the Royal Air Force's Doug Tidy) were "utterly disgusted" at the Conservative Party leader stooping to such outright lies to attack another party.

"We know that in the cut and thrust of politics it is normal to point out flaws in other parties, but it is completely out of bounds to lie so nakedly. I am sure that the voting public will see Mr Cameron's childish outburst for what it is, and ignore it and his party."

At the same meeting where Mr Cameron made his outburst, he was questioned by two members of the public about policy - and not surprisingly, refused to answer either.

The first question was from a gentleman who asked if the BNP "did not have a point" about immigration. Instead of trying to explain his party's immigration policy, Mr Cameron flew into his childish little rant against the BNP.

Another questioner, a lady, expressed to Mr Cameron her concern that schoolchildren are no longer taught British history.

Instead of answering the question, Mr Cameron dodged the issue, remarking only that it was necessary to "get away from narrative history." The Tory leader made no attempt to answer this valid and important question, as might be expected from someone who is supposedly Leader of the Opposition.

The lady questioner later reported to our correspondent that she had expected Mr Cameron to express his opposition to the non-teaching of British history in schools, and that he would take the opportunity to explain his education policy.

"He did no such thing," the lady said. "I went to the meeting as a Tory, but after that display, I will now be voting BNP. At least you get direct, straight answers on their policy positions."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:26 AM

""When was the last time you sat down with a member of the BNP and listened to the truth ?""

You don't sit down with the BNP to learn THEIR truth. You lie down while they beat it into you with boots and baseball bats..

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:25 AM

DMR is simply a propagandist, he hasn't addressed a single question put to him and keep coming out with the same tired party cliches he professes to despise. As he won't engage in direct political debate with anyone here I think it's safe to assume he's either a) Incapable of arguing a point coherently without recourse to the usual hackneyed spiel typical of party drones, or b) Deep down he knows he's very wrong and is incapable of defending his political viewpoint.

So once again DMR: Did the Holocaust happen?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:55 AM

"Sat down with a BNP memebr and listen to the truth" ????

Do you mean there us a BNP member who would actually tell the truth????

I haven't seen one single honest statement, only carefully rehearsed rhetoric. I haven't seen a single response to allegations of racist and neo-nazi statements and behaviour, even to public record extracts, BNP originated documents and recorded video footage.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 09 - 01:58 AM

PS

Five members of my family are Native North Americans. They'd piss on my grave if I ever supported folks like the BNP, and I wouldn't blame 'em. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 09 - 01:56 AM

Best of British.

That would be my grandfather. he loved England, the Royal Union and The King/Queen of the day. He was gassed in the War to End All Wars and he survived that. Just so you know what 'Best of British' really means. That was him. AND, he was of such character that he would NEVER support the BNP or its aims.

I do believe the BNP, and that's why, given the opportunity, they would never get my vote.

As for DGR stalking me, I don't think so. He believes what he's saying. I hope he's not aware of the racist side of the BNP agenda. Hard to see how he can't be, but I've been surprised before this.

Years ago I had swastikas painted (water base paint) on the sides of the house I was living in. I let it be known that the people who did it had a day to remove them or this little puppy was gonna lose his marbles for a while and deal out a little this and that to the folks who did it. The swastikas did get removed. I don't think that DMR supports that kinda shit even if the BNP does. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:05 PM

No doubt I am a little worse for wear at this point in my life. Anyway, I don't understand what it is that is supposed to be "like the American Irish during the 1970's." Apparently our old pal Rig doesn't either. Please enlighten us, oh wise one.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:39 PM

The point, I think, was: The BNP is a fine bunch of chaps. They were like the American Irish in the 1970's.

             I don't know where one goes with that. Angela's Ashes hadn't been published yet, and one would have to assume that at least some of the American Irish must have been bankrolling the IRA. If that was the case, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense that the BNP would support it (them).
             One could make the case, I suppose, that it is representative of a gallant struggle, but the American Irish were only fighting the war by proxy.
             Maybe the American Irish were trying to save Ireland for the Irish, but, of course, they weren't there, so I don't get it either.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:51 PM

are you alright meself? are you abit worse for wear or was that a joke that i didn't get?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:38 PM

"It is like the American Irish during the 1970's."

What is?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:28 PM

He's just getting some rest. He'll be back at it in a few hours.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:10 PM

to everyone that is reading inbetween their own posts,
does it seem to you our friend might have run out of steam or am i having de ja vue? sorry don'tknow what puncutation to use.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:58 PM

Oh by the way folks,

In case you haven't twigged,

DMR isn't reading any of the posts in between his/her own posts.

If you post it is worth bearing that in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:56 PM

I get the feeling that DMR represents the stepford branch of the BNP.


Remember the stepford wives?


"When was the last time you sat down with a member of the BNP and listened to the truth ?"


Creepy!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:19 PM

Please keep the debate civil.


I understand the point of the original post was about a friendship. I clearly stated my views on this subject. I think there's a certain level of paranoia breeding through it now. I think debate on this site is good for people and helps in most instances, but please remain civil and there is no need to tell lies or use of swear words.

The downside to a forum like this is that people immerse themselves in their own little world of frustration, disappointment and bad experiences. .

The majority of those posting are people who lack experience of the real world. When was the last time you sat down with a member of the BNP and listened to the truth ?

If you were diagnosed with a infestation of Labour lies,now is the time for change. you may look for some quick information on the net as to who is standing in your area, please allow your mind to open up and read the BNP website.

On a forum like this you have a concentration of people from the states who never met a BNP member so we have a duty to inform them of the true facts about the party, not lies. They are a fine bunch of chaps really. It is like the American Irish during the 1970's.

I know many people who live in NYC and hadn't heard of the BNP until I enlighted them. They now visit and post on the site.

Allow us all our viewpoint.How many times do people have a good experience and say "I better go post on my good experience". People look for forums to rant when they're confused, frustrated and need an ear. This site provides a great service and place to get good information, but please don't turn it into a breeding ground for a world that's seemingly overrun by PC.

Right off to bed now.

Good night and Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:53 PM

I know many people who live in NYC and hadn't heard of the BNP until I enlighted them. They now visit and post on the site.
The BNP site I highlighted earlier?
Nice to know that the cuddly KKK and John Birch types are showing some brotherly love to their fellow racists in the UK.
And, DMR, you've been asked a few times about your views on race and repatriation. Care to share your views? Do you stand shoulder to shoulder with your white brothers on the BNP forum?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:51 PM

DMR

sadly, without source citations, you are all bark and no bite.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence reading this thread can check up on the sources of the posters who have commented.

You have none.

And you refuse to supply any.

So regardless of how I feel or you feel or who you think is winning the argument, or who you think you're winding up, the evidence is spread out in front of the casual observer that you are full of hot air and don't even have the imagination to fabricate an answer when held to account.

Well I don't generally approve of repeating oneself, but its time to post this again.

Once the presenter has finished her bit the following link gets really interesting.

Goebbels might have been proud ... but would more likely have been embarrassed - he wouldn't have left this video lying around you see.

A VIDEO OF NICK GRIFFIN TEACHING AMERICAN WHITE SUPREMACISTS HOW TO LIE ABOUT BEING RACIST

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:37 PM

what is a wear word?

is it when you use a word too often and it gets worn out?
reasonable ,
truthful,
honorable,
or,
facist,
bigoted,
violent,
inbred,
homophobic,
and last but not least LIARS!!

PEAS OUT

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:20 PM

Rifleman - I'm not a BNP member; I'm registered Green. but if you had any sense of reality you'd find something constructive to do, such as carry Nikita Khrushchev around, like the the real Rifleman.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:01 PM

I understand the point of the original post was about a friendship. I clearly stated my views on this subject. I think there's a certain level of paranoia breeding through it now. I think debate on this site is good for people and helps in most instances, but please remain civil and there is no need to tell lies or use of wear words.

The downside to a forum like this is that people immerse themselves in their own little world of frustration, disappointment and bad experiences. .

The majority of those posting are people who lack experience of the real world. When was the last time you sat down with a member of the BNP and listened to the truth ?

If you were diagnosed with a infestation of Labour lies,now is the time for change. you may look for some quick information on the net as to who is standing in your area, please allow your mind to open up and read the BNP website.

On a forum like this you have a concentration of people from the states who never met a BNP member so we have a duty to inform them of the true facts about the party, not lies. They are a fine bunch of chaps really. It is like the American Irish during the 1970's.

I know many people who live in NYC and hadn't heard of the BNP until I enlighted them. They now visit and post on the site.

Allow us all our viewpoint.How many times do people have a good experience and say "I better go post on my good experience". People look for forums to rant when they're confused, frustrated and need an ear. This site provides a great service and place to get good information, but please don't turn it into a breeding ground for a world that's seemingly overrun by PC.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:31 PM

Me in trouble...?Ohh I think not....

But enough of this humourous bantering, Riginslinger, as I said you have neither the brains nor any sense of irony, much like your compatriots in the BNP, get used to it, sunshine, you've been sussed!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:21 PM

I see, that would indicate you're really in trouble!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:15 PM

Don't bother Riginslinger, you have neither the brains nor a fine appreciation of irony.

and I await the knock at the door by these thugs with glee, my family and I actually fight back.... *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:01 PM

Answers my question and saves DMR from lying through his/her teeth

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:00 PM

And, DMR, what's you're take on this, from a BNP board moderator?:
Somebody should start major-league deporting them before some vigilante groups, somewhere, start major-league killing them in the streets.
And, if I see one being honour-killed, somewhere, I'll develop deafness, blindness and complete social unawareness - it's amazing how suddenly we can be afflicted with such things, given how stressful modern life can be!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:00 PM

"...it's all a big conspiracy by a secret World Wide Jewish Business Cabal to descredit a "respectable" political party."


                      So that's it!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 28 May 09 - 03:51 PM

Some nice quotes on the BNP's forum for its own activists.
On the subject of 'ethnics', we get:
They are outbreeding us. Yes! Time is short, but I still think we can win
and Depends what people want. If it is a 'white' Britain then only a Civil War can bring this about. Anything else will lead to the genocide of the original British people sooner or later., plus if we have political control of our country, we can then make all the decisions that we need to make. Including a policy of repatriation.
It all seems pretty clear to me.
And, in case anyone has any doubts: The only way we can win our country back is by armed struggle. In the mean time we should all back the bnp. We should all try to get the bnp elected by democratic means! We should do ,what ever it takes to gain power!We should back Nik Griffin!! We should only use violence has a last resort when we have nothing left to lose.
The spelling and syntax is all their own, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 03:38 PM

We all know that site you linked to has been discredited. Not worth reading. Another failed attempt to blacken the good name of the BNP.

Tell the lie often enough and it becomes the truth eh, DMR, a note taken right from the Nazis, discredit your enemy by making them look like the villan of the piece.

DMR some of us actually paid attention in history class, and learned something.

We know the history of the BNP, we know its roots, we know where you come from.
I'm waiting for Daily Bird Cage Liner Reader to tell us it's all a big conspiracy by a secret World Wide Jewish Business Cabal to descredit a "respectable" political party.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 03:24 PM

Right, simple yes or no question time.

Daily Mail Reader do you deny that one of the BNP's policies is to 're-patriots immigrants (particularly non-whites) back to their country of origin

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 28 May 09 - 03:00 PM

It calls on members "to spread the truth of who we are", and to use proper spelling and grammar

Oh dear. It would seem that some members aren't listening!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Darowyn
Date: 28 May 09 - 02:54 PM

A story in the Worcester News today.
The BNP candidate has appealed to voters not to vote for her. She was persuaded to stand in the council elections by a BNP neighbour. She wrote her campaign speech stressing her Christian values, but after it was re-written by BNP officials, the candidate- who did not know who the leader of the BNP was- decided to withdraw for fear of being seen as a racist which she is not.
The BNP are not only despicable but also deceitful. They have exploited the political naivety of this lady, as they are no doubt hoping to exploit the naivety of many who do not realise what they actually stand for.
I understand that they have more than one financial scandal of their own to come to light!
Cheers
Dave

Link to the story

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 02:11 PM

I have not described the BNP here as either "knuckle-dragging scum" or "ignoramuses and bigots" as unfortunately I agree with last months article in The New Statesman that
'Such simplistic stereotypes provide a comforting image of the BNP as a lunatic fringe that may score a few upsets in council by-elections'

Public anxiety about immigration may have helped fuel the BNP's rise, but the party now claims to be about more than racism and xenophobia

From the article quoted above -

"In our study (to be published later this year by Routledge in The New Extremism in 21st-Century Britain), we examined a large sample of those who have voted BNP or would consider doing so.
We found that the BNP is gaining new support principally from older, less educated, white working-class men – voters from Labour's historical base who feel they have benefited little from the past decade of Labour government, and whose resentments the BNP has succeeded in articulating......

Many of these voters are cynical about the main political parties. They gained little from the Blair boom and will be the first to suffer in the Brown bust. Their growing cynicism, distrust and detachment from politics have not been taken seriously by Labour, perhaps because the party's strategists believed they have nowhere else to go. But many are now beginning to listen to what the far right has to say,

Most still find it difficult to vote BNP, turned off by the party's association with extremism, or simply because there is no local BNP candidate to vote for.

But even one seat in the European Parliament would provide resources and publicity that could act as a potent catalyst for a party accustomed to operating on a shoestring outside of the media spotlight."


Don't underestimate the cynical exploitation by these racists of the current recession and unemployment and their ability to capitalize on public anger at the disclosure of 'immoral', although not illegal expenses claims of MPs

When the north-west region votes in next month's European elections, the BNP doesn't need to win: under a system using proportional representation, its candidate and chairman Nick Griffin needs just 8% of the vote - fractionally more than its 6.5% last time - to secure a historic first European parliament seat for the British far right.

On a low turnout (usual with European elections), that means about 80,000 votes across a vast area from rural Cumbria to the Mersey, from Manchester to the Lancashire mill towns. If they string together enough pockets of anger and fear, the BNP can make a giant leap.

'The BNP'S biggest breakthrough... has come from using new media - blogging, YouTube, Twittering and social networking sites such as Facebook - to get around "no platform" policies observed by the traditional media and civil society, designed to deny it the oxygen of publicity. It calls on members "to spread the truth of who we are", and to use proper spelling and grammar.'


Hope not Hate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 28 May 09 - 01:48 PM

We all know that site you linked to has been discredited

I assume 'we' means the BNP, and no it hasn't. Risking Joe's wrath, you're a barefaced liar.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 01:40 PM

A belated happy birthday Emma. We all know that site you linked to has been discredited. Not worth reading. Another failed attempt to blacken the good name of the BNP.

Allow the ballot box to tell it's tale next week.

Hope you had a wonderful day and enjoy many many more birthdays filled with health and happiness.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 01:26 PM

"if you tell a lie big enough"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 01:19 PM

There is much to much Goebbelsesque being said here against the BNP.

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

The British National Party is being subjected to the most outrageous smears & downright lies here because it stands for the complete democratisation of the State, against the opposition of the corrupt & venal Old Party political establishment that has gained personal, pecuniary advantage from the British people.

The British National Party is the most democratic party in the European & County Council elections.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:48 PM

Lox. You got it, except that I think their thinking goes way beyond their just taking power in this country. That is definitely part of the apocolyptic scenery, but if there's raw material shortages a BNP dictatorship is going to have to find some from somewhere. Also, if chaos paves the way for a BNP totalitarian dictatorship here, then the same kinds of conditions would apply over the rest of Europe. Therefore, other European fascist parties would be able to impose their own dictatorships elsewhere. And there's strength in numbers.

Therefore, it seems to me that what they envisage is a kind of union of European fascist states, plus any other white countries who want to join them, which will then enslave and rape the third world for whatever is left of the world's raw materials. A sort of fortress Europe in fact.

If so, two problems emerge.

1. What happens to any European nations which do not succumb to the surge to the right?

2. How are they going to accommodate the other power blocs, IE., Russia, China and possibly the USA, who will also be hit by the same crisis, and very likely looking to apply the same solutions?

In other words it's the perfect recipe for world wide war.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:26 PM

Face it, the BNP would cock up a piss up in a brewery *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:07 PM

So if I understand it right, then an apocalypse could actually be a good thing as it would give those who were prepared a chance to take thee opprtunity to seize power ...

... nice thought ... only the BNP would cock it up.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:02 PM

Early on in this thread, or it may have been the one on the English Fair Front, I expressed a belief that the BNP is a bunch of Nazi survivalists. IE., they think that the human race is about to keel over under the strain of global warming, material shortages and over-population. From the Darwinian struggle which ensues, the 'master race' will emerge victorious and ready to enslave the 'inferior' races once more.

I've just found a piece of twaddle on the BNP website of which the last few paragraphs are below. The entire vomit can be seen at http://bnp.org.uk/category/peak-oil/apocalypse/ . Note in partiular the piece of BNPspeak in the final paragraph.

"A mass attempt by the populace to storm a food distribution depot close to the M62 might be dealt with by a few hundred armed infantrymen, but if the scene is multiplied across two hundred depots in twenty counties and a further hundred High Streets and a score of coastal ports as desperate, genuinely desperate fathers, older brothers and husbands try and grab whatever food, medicines, drugs, alcohol for their crying, malnourished offspring siblings and family members. What if the working class storming the food distribution depots are the brothers, sisters, cousins of the twenty-something infantrymen armed with SA80s? Will the well trained British squaddie really fire on his neighbours, friends and family?

"The cities will be dangerous places, conventional policing will be unable to contain the armed gangs who will control "their" areas. The wealthy can try and hide behind armoured gates and security systems, can establish their own armed gangs or buy protection from an armed gang. What of the rest of society? Even in today's oil booming consumerist society there are no go areas for unarmed police officers, housing schemes who are in thrall to the local "Mr. Big" often a pimp, a drug dealer and fence. If the police are not there to help, just who is going to look after the law abiding residents? Do we take the law into our own hands or do we all become easy prey to the armed gangs of pimps, drug barons and organised crime rings?

"The nights will of course be darker, the local councils will not be able to afford the cost of electricity to power street lamps. The nights will be quieter too, as millions of exhausts are silenced, lying rusting in driveways and gardens across the country. Fewer people will frequent the city centres, those that do risk assault, attack and even murder. Living in a city is a real health hazard in a world without oil.

"Conclusion

"A darker, hunger filled, more dangerous existence. That is one possible view of life after oil, but does it really have to be this bad? Could there be some upside, some silver lining on this particularly gloomy looking cloud?

"It might be apocalyptic but it might just be a time of opportunity for those that are aware, those that are prepared and those that can adapt. Don't have nightmares and see for yourself just what opportunities might open up."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:01 PM

Wow - there's a lot of British people an this thread.

And look at what they found when they opened their eyes.



DMR, that last post of yours really got to the nub of the discussion ... whew ... you really know how to debate!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:23 AM

"Michael is also a great guy, he called Nick "The new Churchill". Come the hour, come the man."

If the Churchill family think Griffin is a sleaze bag (except, of course, the Churchill family wouldn't us such a term *LOL*)....well what more need be said?

As for this bogus claim that the BNP first exposed the thieves and abusers in Westminster...laughable at best, considering they have their own fair share of same.

Oh and Daily Mail Reader, I'm one of those that your beloved BNP wants to 're-patriot'to their country of origin, I am an immigrant and I am not white, just to clarify the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:00 AM

ye it did and anyone that say the Holocaust didn't happen then they are rascist and idiots as well

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:47 AM

A bit more free publicity for the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:34 AM

Pathetic.

Just like all the other crooks, liars, blaggards and popinjays we're currently cleaning the system of. They can't answer a straight question either.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 09:42 AM

The people of Britain are at last opening their eyes

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 28 May 09 - 09:42 AM

Would that be the same Michael Barnbrook that volunteered as a UKIP candidate against Derek Conway in Sidcup in 2005? He couldn't muster more than a handful of votes there and so defected to the BNP instead.

"They just believe that Britons are being discriminated against and treated as 2nd class citizens in our own Country and it is about time those in positions of power stopped this discrimination against us as a People."

Britons? Country? Us? Define each of those DMR. And while you're at it, did the Holocaust happen, yes or no?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:37 AM

"Michael's public service will not be acknowledged by those in power because they SO want to depict the BNP as wicked, but we will remember it was him that started the cleaning out of the thieves and abusers in Westminster. We all thank him for this."


Evidence please ....


haven't got any?


Thats because it is fiction.


"It is they who are the fascists and thugs which is clear in their violent efforts to keep our support down by any means they can, including physical assaults, damage to BNP members property and vehicles. All these things have been used against the BNP in the last few months and more. When have this party people ever done this sort of thing to the other parties to prevent them winning support in an upcoming election?"


Where is your evidence of unprovoked violence against the BNP?


No where. Because it doesn't exist.


On the other hand, there is so much evidence of unprovoked BNP violence against ... well wwhoever pisses them off really ... on the net that I will leave it to any readers of this forum to find for themselves.

It would be like looking for a haystack in a hayfield at hay harvesting time.



"The BNP don't hate other races either. They just believe that Britons are being discriminated against and treated as 2nd class citizens in our own Country and it is about time those in positions of power stopped this discrimination against us as a People."


They can "believe" what they want. Once again, there is no evidence to support this claim. The evidence is that when immigration has been at its highest in this country, unemployment has been at its lowest. So if we were to allow ourselves the illusion that the two things are connected, then we would have to conclude that immigration has been good for this country.

Oh yes, and they want other races to leave - its on their website - but in a nice way of course.


Then again there is the fact that, as peace pointed out, the BNP is friendly with david dukes and his mob and other right wing hate groups.

In fact, I have posted a video several times of Nick Griffin advising them how to lie about your racist intentions to get votes.


Bit like you DMR - Either unbelievably imperceptive or else a Liar and a racist.


"If you are going to the polls next week,emember to write your vote in BLACK BIRO"


You've got the wrong website - this isn't a BNP forum where people are still getting to grips with opposable thumb theory, this is a forum where people have been able to write clearly, legibly, and in good english for most of their lives.

Unlike your usual audience, they won't have any difficulty putting an x in the right box.

And you can guarantee that the box they choose won't be the one with BNP next to it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:21 AM

Emma B. "'The British National Party is facing an inquiry".

Nice timing, considering this bunch of incorruptables (well you can't corrupt what's already corrupt) will be expecting to make hay out of the Westminster expenses scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:19 AM

"The lies and abuse just showed people the sort of thing we have to put up with constantly from the fascist Left, they attempted to close down their wonderful website which allows us to read the truth about Britain today."

Are you talking about Redwatch, the website which posts photographs, names and adresses of anti-fascist activists so that BNP members and their ilk can go and beat themn up?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:15 AM

and....

talking about 'sleazebusting'.....

'The British National Party is facing an inquiry into its funding after its leader, Nick Griffin, paid a £5,000 political donation into his personal bank account without declaring it.

The party's finances came under scrutiny yesterday after it declared donations with the Electoral Commission of £21,132 for the first quarter of this year. No donations were declared between March and December last year. It has pledged to spend £500,000 campaigning for next week's European and local elections alone.

Under Electoral Commission rules, donations in excess of £5,000 to political parties and in excess of £1,000 given to party members to be used for political activity must be declared. ...

Mr Griffin admitted that he had paid a £5,000 donation that appeared to be from a political supporter into his own bank account and then transferred the money to a sympathetic political organisation without alerting the authorities.

Details of the transaction emerged as David Cameron, the Tory leader, mounted the most savage attack to date on the BNP by a major political leader. "They dress up in a suit and knock on your door in a nice way but they are still Nazi thugs," he said.'

from today's Times on line

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:09 AM

Michael's public service will not be acknowledged by those in power because they SO want to depict the BNP as wicked, but we will remember it was him that started the cleaning out of the thieves and abusers in Westminster. We all thank him for this.

These crooks fought so hard to keep their thieving and corruption hidden from us, the people they were stealing from, no wonder they don't want the BNP uncovering even greater thefts and corruption in the EU. I really believe that the only way any of their deceit and thievery will see the light of day is if we get some BNP members in. The other Parties will not want to do anything to stop the plundering of the taxpayers' money. They are enjoying it too much.

These crooks keep spouting the same poisonous old rubbish about the BNP being fascists and thugs. It is they who are the fascists and thugs which is clear in their violent efforts to keep our support down by any means they can, including physical assaults, damage to BNP members property and vehicles. All these things have been used against the BNP in the last few months and more. When have this party people ever done this sort of thing to the other parties to prevent them winning support in an upcoming election?

I also wonder how true their non-racist credentials are when they can write such nasty racist words on the forged document they gave to the newspapers about the BNP.

The lies and abuse just showed people the sort of thing we have to put up with constantly from the fascist Left, they attempted to close down their wonderful website which allows us to read the truth about Britain today.

These denial of service attacks were despicable and totally undemocratic, especially in the run-up to an election. They were worried that people would see their policies on the website and see that they are NOT the racist thugs the Leftwing thugs say they are.

I have never been racist in my life, I couldn't be a thug if I wanted to. The BNP don't hate other races either. They just believe that Britons are being discriminated against and treated as 2nd class citizens in our own Country and it is about time those in positions of power stopped this discrimination against us as a People. They are determined to ignore democracy and try to stop the overwhelming support which is now coming into the BNP offices.

We need to show these thugs that we will vote for the party we want to vote for.

If you are going to the polls next week,emember to write your vote in BLACK BIRO to minimise the risk of vote rigging. I am afraid we just cannot trust these people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:04 AM

I think our Daily Mail reader must have missed this from today's Mail on line....

'Mr Griffin is also embroiled in a row with relatives of Sir Winston Churchill who are furious at his attempt to cloak himself in the mantle of the great wartime leader.

In the BNP election broadcast, he quotes from one of Churchill's most famous speeches. The advert also features footage of Sir Winston and British war graves.'

further reports from recent press reports

'Churchill's family say that the BNP is trying to hijack his legacy. His grandson, ­Nicholas Soames, said it was "offensive and ­disgusting," and he had consulted lawyers in an attempt to force the Electoral Commission to stop the broadcast.

It's a monstrous thing to do," said Soames, Tory MP for Mid-Sussex. "Most sensible people will be disgusted by the BNP's use of Churchill's face and imagery purporting to claim that my grandfather would have supported their policies."

Griffin was also accused of hypocrisy over his use of second world war footage, after it emerged that an article which appeared in a rightwing magazine he edited in the 1990s appeared to praise the wartime exploits of Hitler's SS.'

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 May 09 - 08:02 AM

Bearing in mind that several million of our forebears gave their lives between 1939 and 1945 to keep Nazi scum out of the UK, what on earth posesses the same kind of scum who now pose as Die Britische Nationale Partei to think that we'll vote them in via the back door?

Fuckin' delusional, the lot of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:40 AM

Bollox.

The Daily telegraph received leaked documents from a source that they refuse to disclose.



"Griffin for example, is a lop-eyed, hunchbacked, dribbling, shuffling poltroon of a specimen with a risible taste in suits whose hatred probably comes from his own vicious self-loathing."

\o/ haha

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:11 AM

Another FACT that some of you may be unaware of. It was the British National Party's very own sleazebuster, Michael Barnbrook, who initiated the entire review of MPs' expenses.

Mr Barnbrook, a former Metropolitan police inspector, who is also the BNP's spokesman on police matters, was the one who first raised the matter with a written complaint to Mr John Lyon, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, against Tory MP Derek Conway. It was that complaint which resulted in the first review of MPs' expenses.

Michael is also a great guy, he called Nick "The new Churchill". Come the hour, come the man.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:43 AM

"Hmmm - another of my posts deleted for some reason."

Doh! Wrong thread. What a plonker. Apologies to all for interrupting with my impetuous drivel.

Whilst I'm here though . . .

"Yes Nick, you are an embarassment."

What gets me is why the leaders of these right-wing fascistic movements, who trumpet the superiority of their race and culture over others are ever hardly shining examples of the supposed Aryan master race. Griffin for example, is a lop-eyed, hunchbacked, dribbling, shuffling poltroon of a specimen with a risible taste in suits whose hatred probably comes from his own vicious self-loathing.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stu
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:32 AM

"In other words the BNP are sticking two fingers up to to democracy, freedom and intellectual property rights; to say nothing of coherent speech."

Hmmm - another of my posts deleted for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:48 AM

There's an article in today's AOL news http://news.aol.co.uk/angry-note-over-bnps-music-sales/article/20090528015957141904094 . It is derived from a letter in today's Times and concerns members of the Musicians Union, who are angry about the BNP selling their records on the BNP website.

According to the article, a BNP spokesperson said, "They've already made their money haven't they? Once that music's gone through a distributor. They're politicising themselves to a high degree by doing this and we wouldn't really be concerned by that. It's up to us what we sell - we're not changing."

In other words the BNP are sticking two fingers up to to democracy, freedom and intellectual property rights; to say nothing of coherent speech. But would anyone seriously expect them to do anything different?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoynBgoRme0
you might not like their style but you cannot argue thier politics

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:48 PM

Looks like Nick Griffin won't be meeting the queen after all ...

... apparently he didn't want to embarass her ...

Yes Nick, you are an embarassment.

Blah Blah Blah ...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:44 PM

I see that DMR has not answered my question regarding their (be it him, her or it's) ancestry. Two or three centuries seem to be sufficient for DMR. So - can him/her/it possibly be of one of the Normans that came over here and stole what wasn't theirs, or of course an ancestor of the landowners that supported enclosure. Not much changed there then!!
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:02 PM

never mind i think i might just have a breakdown!!!lol

good luck peace it must be nice to be loved!!! boo hoo weep sob

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 01:38 PM

Sorry Jeddy,

It looks like he's only got one person in his sights.

Looks like you've got a stalker Peace ...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:00 PM

"Rebuilding my old L1A1 and there is a lot of sound advice there."

thus speakes the reader of one of the great bird cage liners

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:52 AM

Just checked their site peace, excellent. Rebuilding my old L1A1 and there is a lot of sound advice there.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 27 May 09 - 10:32 AM

i will fight anyone for the chance to be with him he's such a nice guy so who else is in the running?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:54 AM

Hey DMR,

Which BNP members appeal to you the most?

Is it the ones who make passes at underage girls?

The ones who beat people up?

the ones who picket the houses of Paediatricians?

The ones who deny the holocaust?

The ones who teach the KKK how to sell ethnic cleansing to the masses in appealing language?

Or would you rather discuss something else?


BTW - I understand that you like Peace - Your sincerity is just beautiful and its almost as if you aren't aware of anyone else on this thread - however I get the impression that if you are hoping to start a little love affair with him then you may be misguided.

I don't think he fancies you.

I mean - there's something cute about you paying him so much attention and all ...

But I think you'll just have to ask one of your big meaty thug twinks to ... erm ... console you when the election results come through.

There's usually plenty of boys hanging out at the BNP pubs that I drive past.

Best of British eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:13 AM

A big thanks peace for that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:29 AM

To Daily Mail reader:

rawles (at) usa (dot) net

for the FN stuff you seek. If anyone'd have a lead on it, he would.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:21 AM

Why is the BNP in bed with groups like the KKK, CHP, Aryan Nations, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:19 AM

Child Benefit - Oh yes, that's the non means-tested one, that ius paid irrespective of income..... the one that is payable to the city fat-cats as well as the unemployed... I can imagine the dialogue now

He: I've got bad news, my bonus has been cut to £50,000 because of the recession.
She: never mind dear, we are still getting Child benefit, we will get by somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:45 AM

If you are going to make comparisons of benefit rates, please can you also state the comparative average wages and comparative cost of living?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:11 AM

Our taxes?

Did you make it clear that the term OUR taxes includes:

(1) employment taxes paid by BMER (including Polish) employees. So what is the total tax contribution?

(2) Self-employment taxes paid by BMER (including Polish) who run businesses in the UK, and employment taxes by any "UK White" employees of such businesses?

(3) Corporation Tax of UK registered companies owned by BMER (including Polish) directors?

(4) Uniform Business Rates paid by BMER (Including Polish) businesses occupying premises in UK that do not attract DRR or MRR?

(5) VAT on non-zero-rated products collected and paid. Duties and other indirect taxes collected and paid by BMER (including Polish) businesses?

Before you start mud-slinging at your target population for the year, state both sides of the equation! But since when did the Daily Mail present balanced reporting when mudslinging sells more papers..

And finally - based on an observation I made near where I live on my way home last night? Who make better citizenship role models: BMER (including Polish) people who work hard and diligently, who work for care sector organisations looking after the welfare of older people, people with disabilities, carers, NHS staff OR the group of UK White shaved-head thugs who were hanging around a street corner swilling lager and intimidating passers-by or the UK white lout who I witnessed spitting at a black passenger at Southall station for having the audicity to walk pass him????

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 May 09 - 10:19 PM

"BNP: What would you do?"


                Vote 'em in. They can't do any worse than the blokes who've been mucking things up recently.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:25 PM

i guess it's past your' bedtime DMR as you haven't got back to me.
or is it that your' parents found you?
sweet dreams.



night all looking forward to reading your' thoughts in the morning
take care x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:08 PM

that last post was aimed at dmr did not MEAN to insult anyone else
i should have made that clear, sorry all

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:06 PM

BBC News report on the same information

'Benefit claims

At the Goodwin Trust Sylwia Szewczyk is as community cohesion co-ordinator.

"This week about 10 people have come saying they've been made redundant.

"Mostly they have no qualifications, they can't speak English, and they can't claim benefits. But they try to stay in the UK and it's quite difficult for them." '........

'Unemployment in Poland is currently 11.1%, compared to 6.7% in the UK.

"They stay because they came to the UK to succeed. For them going back to Poland would be shaming," says Sylwia.

There's more than anecdotal evidence that Poles and migrant workers from other former communist countries are choosing to sit out the global downturn in the UK rather than returning home.

Figures from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) for last year show a 40% rise in income-related benefit claims, compared with the year before, from citizens of the eight eastern European countries which joined the EU in 2004 - known as the A8 countries.


But the biggest impact seems to be increasingly tough competition for jobs rather than benefit claims.

Outside the Britannia job centre in Hull, there's a steady stream of people.

There are 28 people on job seekers' allowance per job vacancy in Hull - and you don't have to look far to find resentment.

"It gets people down, these migrants taking all our jobs. Added to the recession, it is one problem on top of another," says a man leaving the job centre.

He declines to give his name..'

a bit like our cowardly nasty nazi 'guests' really

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:02 PM

why just pick on them though when there are so many white folks on benifits i will tell you why because THEY are the easy targets!!!
and for the record i am english .
not for any reason other than i live in and was born in england i don't see the problem in being proud of ones heritage but i am very willing to share the perks of living here with anyone who wants or needs to. well except maybe you

i am very unhappy at where some of my taxes go although i am sure my motives differ to yours. i think public money should be used to help peole in need and to take care of the country.

for example, i want more money for firefighters and street cleaners but less money for the nhs,it's not the amount of money that the nhs get that's causing the problems it's the fact that they pay too much forthe people running it who don't actually make any difference.

if the nhs was organised properly on a national scale we wouldn't have the postcode lottery would we? we wouldn't have the elderly starving in hospitals up and down the country.


still think i haven't got a clue?   run along now and see if you can remember your' name there's a good chap

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:57 PM

It possibly should be noted that the only part of the April 19, 2009 article in the Daily Mail that can be accurately attributed to Dr. Mokrzycki is We think lots of single people who came here may leave but the families will stay for as long as possible. Once they are set up they are qualified for benefits and support, and as EU citizens they will receive it. Lower benefits payments in Poland means there is 'no reason' for them to return home. The sentence Child benefit for a first child in the UK is £20 per week - compared with £3 in Poland. is outside of quotes and follows "he added". The rest of the information noted above by GUEST,Daily Mail reader 26 May 09 - 06:09 PM is attributed to other people, unattributed, or not in the on-line version of this article.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:46 PM

Clearly you don't care how your tax is spent jeddy. I do. The abuse is rift, read up on it before you post.

Best of British to you.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:41 PM

that's right DMR let's cut all benefits off to those who' DON'T BELONG HERE,   so they GO HOME
then we could imprison those who have the right TO BE HERE. when that phase is over we could slowly starve them by giving them less and less food in the jails.
when the jails are empty we could send the ILL AND INFIRM there and do it again.
then we could send the people who have the wrong attitudes, get rid of them.
then it could be the turn of unmarried mums.
then i reakon it's the turn of all those who have lost any job no matter what the reason in the last 5 years
we could then pick on the farmers who owm less than say 8 acres
and pretty soon we have YOUR' perfect country with only you and a few others left because you and your' ilk are pefect and untainted


yeah right a vote for the bnp might start out not that badbut if they had their way it wouldn't take long!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:29 PM

Thanks peace. Really like to help, but I don't know of any British Nazi Party, so can't assist. Are you sure one exists ?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:16 PM

Try Australia. Make sure it's been manufactured in a Commonwealth country. Gotta go. NOW, answer my question. I answered yours.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:15 PM

Rephrase the question slightly - "Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with other hate groups around the world?" - and it answers itself.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:13 PM

I remember you telling me peace you did a bit of shooting over there, I am looking a Trijicon Trophy Point 4x and an A.R.M.S mount for a L1A1, If you can help an old squaddie please let me know where I can get one, tried everywhere over here, I know you guys over there used them.

Best of British to you my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:56 PM

In case you forgot, here's the question for time 763:

'"'"Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?"

I was kinda hoping a BNP person would answer this. '"

I hope this is answered because it's gonna be a post filled with quotation marks real soon. '

I ain't havin' too much luck . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:52 PM

Yippee for you. Now, answer my question or fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:49 PM

When I was there I met a guy who also worked in the emergency services, he was based at CFB Moose Jaw.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:43 PM

Nice don't mean shit to me, fellow.

As for my question: why is the BNP in bed with white hate groups?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:39 PM

Hi peace, so how is the weather over there ? I was in Canada three years ago and your winter extended my holiday by four days !

Have to say your airports are much better at dealing with a big freeze than here in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:36 PM

IMO, he just looks at the picyures . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:35 PM

The Daily Mail is a pretty crap paper, but there are plenty of decent enough people who read it. It shouldn't be assumed that they share the views of our self styled "GUEST,Daily Mail reader".

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:25 PM

'"'"Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?"

I was kinda hoping a BNP person would answer this. '"

I hope this is answered because it's gonna be a post filled with quotation marks real soon. '

I ain't havin' too much luck . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:09 PM

SPB,Maybe you could also give this consideration. Jan Mokrzycki, of the Federation of Poles in Great Britain, said in the Daily Mail: 'We think lots of single people who came here may leave but the families will stay for as long as possible. Once they are set up they are qualified for benefits and support. Ania Heasley, who runs an employment agency and advice service for eastern Europeans in London, said Polish workers were becoming 'very well-versed' in the UK benefits system.


Any EU citizen who works here for 12 months can claim the full range of state benefits, including child and housing benefit, and jobseeker's allowance.


Lower benefits payments in Poland means there is 'no reason' for them to return home, he added. Child benefit for a first child in the UK is £20 per week - compared with £3 in Poland.

In the last quarter of 2008, Home Office figures show that 4,049 immigrants from the 'A8' eastern European states which joined the EU in 2004 applied for benefits in the UK - a rise of almost two thirds on the same period in 2007.
Britain's taxpayers are forking out more than £21million a year in child benefit for youngsters living in Poland, official figures reveal.

A loophole in EU regulations means migrants from other EU countries who are seeking work in the UK can claim state handouts for children they have left behind in their home countries.

The total benefits bill for the Treasury is likely to be closer to £50million a year when other Eastern European countries are included.


Britain's child benefit payments of £941 per year for a first child or £629 per year for younger siblings are far higher than the equivalent paymentsin Eastern European states that are new EU members.

The Polish benefits system, for example, pays a maximum of around £160 per year in child benefit.

Investigations have found that many workers moving to Britain are fraudulently claiming family benefits in both countries, exploiting lax checks and poor information sharing between member states.

Figures released by the Treasury in answer to Parliamentary written questions from the Conservatives show that at the end of September 26,000 Polish children from 16,286 families were being paid child benefits by UK taxpayers.

That means 16,286 first-born children were receiving the full £18.10 per week with the remaining 10,000 getting the lower payment of £12.10 per week.

The figures show that the number of claimants is soaring.

In June last year, the Treasury said 14,000 families from eight Eastern European states were claiming the benefits - around 10,000 were estimated to be Polish.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:51 PM

Some open questions - all parties, but in my opinion issues that voters should be considering when they make their decisions.

Local Elections:

If you are elected to your local authority, how do you envisage forwarding the Local Strategic Partnership and meeting the Local Area Agreement targets in a cohesive manner?

How would you ensure that access to Individual Budgets will be fair and applied consistently across all sectors of the community?

What personalisation model would you apply?

European Elections

What measures would you apply to ensure that people employed by UK firms in Central and Eastern European states will enjoy the rights enjoyed by workers in this country?

What is your future vision for use of structural and cohesion funding across Europe?

What measures would you take to promote innovation across Europe so that europe can compete effectively in international markets?

What are your priorities for the development of the Third Sector in Europe?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 May 09 - 11:13 AM

Charming... anyway I am off to my Czech language class.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 26 May 09 - 11:07 AM

I just received this from my sister in Canada. Aren't they just a lovely family?

Here's a little something from 'the colonies'

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:46 AM

now that is being honext I wish that there was more people on this sit like that, instead od being PC

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:42 AM

Your friend is probably better off now
That's the sort of mealy-mouthed utterance that's usually made after an elderly aunt has died of cancer.
Gee, thanks DMR, you really do have a way with words!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:13 AM

Your friend is probably better off now. I respect them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:12 AM

Back to the story line!

In the end I think Cllr knew someone would out the BNP Candidate. It was me.

I have just come back from Chippenham festival where I managed to say no more than Hi to said candidate once all weekend.

It was hard decison to out her. A decision made after she told me 'would rather keep political discussions private.' - as the council web site shows it is a public matter and I have no regrets about outing my former friend and occasional singing partner. I cannot support anyone who promotes the policies of the BNP and attempts to get others to accept them too!

I see nothing despicatble or shameful about it. It is legally in the public domain and said candidates life is now public property accordingly. Keeping quiet and not opposing such views led to some amazingly disgusting things in the past - the holocaust being just one of them. sorry this did not happen either!

No I did the right thing and am pleased. My concience is clear and I personally feel a lot better and am now honest in myself.

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:08 AM

Mike aka Cllr, again I salute your courage. I am in almost identical case to you, having had to sunder a friendship because the former friend's political standpoint is unacceptable to me.

At risk of thread drift - not that it hasn't :-) - I had thought of wasting a vote on UKIP until I saw what I think is its latest poster -

"Say NO to unlimited immigration" OWTTE. UKIP, BNP - two sides of one coin ?

Oh, and Churchill, giving his favourite V sign. Only it was arse-about-face :-).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 May 09 - 04:32 AM

And every single root and twig is from there, too?

Of course not, art. That's just the easily traceable line. We were blasted immigrants who came over to take English jobs (assuming they could do them, I believe the Flemish who came over to East Anglia were quite skilled in the woolen trade). I've no idea what else may be there but I certainly would not assume everything else must be "British".

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 May 09 - 04:20 AM

Good to see you can trace back to the 17th. and 18th. centuries GUEST, Daily Mail Reader, so you can account for 3 or 4 centuries but you didn't state if they were all british - whoopee do. I did state that my paternal grandfather was of fairground travelling stock. What I didn't say is that my name is of course Irish. My maternal grandfather was Scottish, and my maternal grandmother was the grandaughter of Dutch Jewish stock. Where, in your scheme of things, should I go back to?
I can see why Cllr has a dilemna with his friend if she has your mindset. Never mind, you just go on hiding behind your cowardly anononimity.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 May 09 - 04:01 AM

Yesterday I posted a message expressing my belief that the BNP would be forced to open concentration camps, to accommodate those 'foreign' nationals they couldn't repatriate.

Found out last night I was wrong. There I was in my local pub, drinking English beer, when I rather gingerly picked up a copy of the Daily Telegraph which someone had left. There at the bottom of p25, was the answer, straight from the fat man himself.

"What would he do with those he couldn't send "home" because we don't know their nationality? It's the kind of thorny problem real politicians wrestle with, but Griffin looked like his head would explode. Eventually he spluttered: "Drop them out of a plane somewhere over Africa. I don't really care." I realised dialogue was futile."

Who said the BNP have no policies?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 25 May 09 - 09:18 PM

"'"Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?"







I was kinda hoping a BNP person would answer this. '"



I hope this is answered because it's gonna be a post filled with quotation marks real soon.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 25 May 09 - 09:06 PM

"Looks like you've jumped the gun Rory.
Still, the likelihood is, as a BNP supporter, that you're either a fraudster, a sexual deviant, a drug pusher or a thug, and certainly of limited intelligence, we we can't expect you to heed your master's call."

You missed 'idiot'. No offence.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 25 May 09 - 08:35 PM

Hawker,

Your breath is not wasted.

Your comments are undiminished ny substanceless goads.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:28 PM

"Pah! methinks I am wasting my breath. " Glad we agree on something.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Hawker
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:22 PM

Hey, Daily Mail reader,
I havent a clue what you are on about, reading things into anything, I just get really fed up with a music forum being hijacked by people wanting to impress their political opinion so heavily on the rest of us people here to enjoy each others company - fine, have your say, but lets not make it personal, My politics do not come into this, it matters not what I vote, and Im not about to try and put my political opinion into the melting pot. I was just answering Mikes question, - the first post, and wish you would all just do the same.
Pah! methinks I am wasting my breath.
Read what you like into that.....no coded messages, no bullshit, no agenda, but Im sure you could twist it round to make the thread run another 30 posts....................................... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:16 PM

And every single root and twig is from there, too? Family trees are interesting - I can truthfully claim to be able to trace my family to a man from Boston (the one in Lincolnshire) who settled in Massachusetts in 1630-something...but that doesn't mean that there haven't been grafts from the American south (1866), France (1884), Nottingham (1898), Ireland (1888), Germany (1922) and Russia (1911).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 May 09 - 06:22 PM

He was able to trace our family back to the 17th century

I believe we have to go further back than that on my father's side to discover we are not British at all but Flemish...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 06:02 PM

Dear Barden, My brother completed our family tree a few years ago. He was able to trace our family back to the 17th century in Buckinghamshire. On my mothers side, he got back to the 18th century in Berkshire.

Best of British to you my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 25 May 09 - 04:23 PM

I live in the inner city in south London.

I love it in Deptford, Peckham, New Cross etc ... though i admit to geetting a little uneasy when I veenture into bermondsey ...

... I am told that Lib Dem Simon hughes is their MP, but I am also aware of its BNP support and I make sure I have my wits about me when I'm in the area.


BTW,

Before anyo f us answers your clever little question, would you mind enlightening us as to exactly how many seats the BNP stand to lose in the European parliament if things go badly?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:56 PM

On films..... To Kill a Mockingbird was on a few weeks ago.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:21 PM

Per4hapshe is a Daily Mail reader, but the link I posted was from the Daily Mail.

He's a git. Apologies to Joe, who is over in California and can't quite see the point.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:20 PM

In answer to Guest - Daily Mail Reader, it may well be that the BNP will get a few more seats. That's the way with things at the moment, but will they ever be a significant force? Not all the time they have a hole up their a*ses. I don't believe that my fellow voters are the idoits and dolts that the BNP supposes them to be and my belief in democracy is not dulled one whit. By the way Guest - Daily Mail Reader, I'm still waiting for an answer regarding your ancestry, or have you no clue on that? I told you mine, but then I suspect you will still hide behind you cowardly anonimity
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:16 PM

"Lucy, I just enjoyed a great film on tv the same day "They Died with Their Boots" the classic 1941 western film directed by Raoul Walsh and starring Errol Flynn, unlike you I don't read into things, if your a Labour voter, maybe that seemed very timely to you also ?"

what the hell is the idiot on about?

We all know what the film's about. How one arrogant militarist thought he knew all there was to know about about tactics against "the red savage" and how Custer got what was coming to him. »Personally I was cheering for Crazy Horse (the war leader at Greasy Grass River (that's Little Big Horn to white folks *LOL*)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:04 PM

And I am sure if the police don't cooperate then Combat 18 would happily step in....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:00 PM

Lucy, I just enjoyed a great film on tv the same day "They Died with Their Boots" the classic 1941 western film directed by Raoul Walsh and starring Errol Flynn, unlike you I don't read into things, if your a Labour voter, maybe that seemed very timely to you also ?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:49 PM

""Assuming the army or police agree to serve a government that would act in this way towards its own people."" Lox


That's been tried out many times, in many countries, in the past Lox, and invariably the police and the army have initially complied with the legislative authority of the day.

Then later, the kind of people who were concentration camp guards or secret police in Nazi Germany, have floated, as scum always does, to the surface.

Quite ordinary people can willingly perform extraordinarily horrific acts, once normal restrictions, and moral imperatives, are removed.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:47 PM

i realise that it is fiction but i also thought that it painted the bnp racist story rather well what with the elections coming it seemed to me that the writers or the beeb were sending a very clear message, a lack of tolerance will not be tolerated.. just seemed very timely to me

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:38 PM

Did you read the above Lucy ? Always best to read the posts before posting.

Best wishes

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:33 PM

Quote from Guest Beowulf:- ""I have watched my country deteriorate over the last 50 years and I'm glad my old dad's not alive, he would be going frantic, he gave up 6 years of life for you cretins.
Judging by your comments you probably live far away from an inner city, so keep having a pint in your sleepy vllage local while it still stands.""


Simple answer pseudo Celt. Your old man spent that six years fighting AGAINST the kind of thugs who inspired the founders of the BNP. I know WHOSE arse he'd be kicking mate, YOURS.

And I lived most of my life in Notting Hill, North West London, a peaceful village where most people don't go out after dark unless they have to, because they are likely to get a kicking from marauding groups of white yoof, fresh out of the pub, drunk as sacks, and looking for an Indian restaurant where they can act like arseholes and abuse the hardworking staff.

YOU know the sort I mean; the ones the BNP love to recruit at their rallies. They make really good weapons, if pointed in the right direction, having no minds of their own to get in the way.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:31 PM

Lucy,

This discussion is in part an overspill from an earlier thread which I started, warning people about the English Fair Fund. I've pasted Joe Offer's words of wisdom upon drawing a line below that thread below. I have to say, he's got a point. There's nothing like a thread with the letters BNP in it for bringing out the trolls and anonymous guests.


"I don't want this BNP thing to get out of control again, so I'm going to limit the discussion to one BNP thread at a time. Since there is another BNP thread (click) active, I'm going to ask you to continue this discussion there.
Thanks."
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Hawker
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:15 PM

Ahem!
Excuse me for pointing this out, this thread originally asked a question about what you would do with regards to a friend standing for something you did not have the same feelings about, and has seriously drifted to something quite different!
Daily Mail reader has now demanded answers to a different thing altogether, this should surely be on another thread!
If there is an answer requested it is to the first question, start another thread!!!!!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:09 PM

Yes jeddy, a great piece of drama, my brother in law is a sound man on this series, they work of fictional scripts.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:08 PM

Lox:. "Assuming the army or police agree to serve a government that would act in this way towards its own people."

Exactly. Fascism and democracy are incompatible. Therefore, the only way in which the BNP can achieve power is by destroying democracy. It happened in Spain, it happened in Chile, and it happened in Greece.

"the fact that the Nazi won in July 1932 did not make them any less evil and insidious." In point of fact the Nazis never got into power by a straightforward democratic majority. The only election in which they won an overall majority was in 1933, after they'd locked up the Communists, Social Democrats and trade unionists.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:47 PM

i think they wiil lose seats. did any of you watch casualty on sat?
i do believe that the bbc are anti bnp as the programme ended with the homophobic,racist piece of scum got arrested and the illegal immigrant was helped and protected.

go beeb!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for that. Now would one of you please answer the question I put to you earlier, Do you think the BNP will gain or lose seats next month. Simple enough question.

Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:16 PM

Logged in now. (those posts "From: GUEST,lox - PM
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:05 PM" and "From: GUEST,lox - PM
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:07 PM" were indeed me)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:16 PM

And if you want to know more about 'folk' people... find out what Woody Guthrie had written on his guitar....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:09 PM

And if you haven't twigged yet, on the basis of postings to this thread there members of this forum are unanimous in their decision of who they are NOT going to vote for. Can you guess which one? I'll give you a clue.... its initials are BNP. Maybe you can conjure more support from skinheads and paedophiles. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find out where they hang out.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:07 PM

"There would of course be massive demonstrations and protests, but these could easily be put down by a few tanks and troops with tear gas, baton rounds etc"

Assuming the army or police agree to serve a government that would act in this way towards its own people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 25 May 09 - 01:05 PM

I agree with Daily Mail Reader.

We should allow people to make up their own minds.

Ands we should allow people to discuss the issue on this thread.

And we should allow People to read this thread and decide wwhich argument is more compelling if they so choose.


That is what you mean isn't it DMR?

You aren't suggesting we should put and end to the thread in case it makes people vote against you are you?

No of course not - because we should allow people to make up their own minds.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 09 - 12:45 PM

No one has told anybody who to vote for except for anonymous guests. All the rest of us are doing is providing background information that we think non racists should consider before they cast their vote. the fact that the Nazi won in July 1932 did not make them any less evil and insidious.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 25 May 09 - 12:23 PM

I repeat, allow people to make up their own minds. The ballot box will do the talking in a few weeks time.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 May 09 - 11:44 AM

Moderates who protested against a previous, Muslim led, anti- war demonstration in Luton, Bedfordshire, back in March- by attacking an Asian man and wrecking an Asian owned shop. The true face of British racism, that our "ex Labour" friends like to keep hidden from the voting public.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 09 - 09:58 AM

Here's a conundrum which has puzzled me ever since I ran up against the National Front's repatriation policy 30 odd years ago. Forgetting the logistics, the collapse of the NHS, the deletrious effects on the economy etc., it would not be too difficult for a constitutionally elected far right government to frame a piece of legislation stopping all immigration - at any rate, immigration by all the ethnic groups which the far right objects to.

Equally, the repatriation of all immigrants would not be too difficult to engineer. There would of course be massive demonstrations and protests, but these could easily be put down by a few tanks and troops with tear gas, baton rounds etc. Equally, there would be massive protests from abroad, and Britain would be reduced to the status of a pariah (pirranah?) nation. But that would hardly bother the BNP. They would be quite happy in their whiter than white isolation, with only their fellow European fascists and the Ku Klux Klan, and the white South African millionaires they've been courting lately for company.

Of course, there might be economic chaos, as Britain suddenly finds its workforce depleted, and the rest of the world imposes sanctions to stop us trading abroad. Still, there's always those tanks and tear gas canisters and baton rounds to quell the starving populace. And if rubber bullets didn't work, I couldn't imagine the Nick Griffins of this world shedding too many tears over using real ones.

The nub of the problem from the BNP's point of view is that a very large proportion of the "immigrant" population was born here and has the same rights of nativity and nationhood as the rest of us. In other words no British government of any stripe or persuasion would be able to deport these people, and no foreign government has any obligation, legal or moral, to find homes for them.

In other words,whatever the BNP might say about "constitutionally" returning Britain to a totally white society, it cannot be made to happpen. Too many of the people they plan to throw out cannot leave because they've got no other country to go to.

Now, either the BNP realises this, or they're an even bigger bunch of fruitcakes than I take them for.

How then do they plan to deal with the native born "immigrant" population? Either I've missed something or the only solution which would be open to them would be to adopt the one chosen by their mentor; the little Austrian corporal.

That's right, the BNP cannot achieve its stated goal of a 99% Aryan British population without planting huge numbers of people in concentration camps. Well, let's face it, they're going to need them for all the people who will rise up in objection to the hounding of innocent citizens. For that matter, they'll need them for all the trade unionists, left wingers, liberals, gays, gypsies, travellers, and anyone else who dares to foul the air of their Aryan paradise.

A constitutionally elected fascist far right goverment is an impossibilty, and the BNP knows it. Their facade of constitutional respectability is just that, a facade, and it's creaking pretty badly as things stand. If the next few years brings the sort of circumstances which allows them to grow into a major political force, you will see the BNP shed that facade and reveal themselves as the totalitarian thugs and barbarians we already know them for, just as a surely as a snake sloughs its skin.

Don't let it happen. Kill the snake off now.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 09 - 07:19 PM

"...all terrorists are immigrants or their immediate descendants" - but by that definition of GUEST Rory "Britain consits of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales", every bombing carried out over the years by the IRA was carried out by native-born Britishers.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Hawker
Date: 24 May 09 - 07:19 PM

What would I do? Hmmmmm
Well, first off Mike, I wouldn't ask a bunch of folkies on a forum such as this as it would only start a fight and a lot of mudslinging :0)
But I sympathise with your predicament, and understand your reasons. I send you my love and friendship for your honesty and feel your sadness at having to make this decision. I dont know what I would do, probably not the same as you, but then I am not you and that does make a difference too.
I survived 2 days at Chippenham without being targeted by any BNP member. I was handed a UKIP leaflet and thanked them and handed it back saying that I didnt live there and that therefore there was no point in trying to win my vote. They thanked me and I moved on.
Politics will always raise temperatures.
My political views are my own, and I have no desire to force them on anybody else. Mike, If you feel that was the right decision for you, then go with it, and good luck!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 24 May 09 - 06:13 PM

Thank you rory.

Your comments have served yet again to illustrate to any outsider reading this thread that the BNP are mindless thugs.

Indeed, well done to everyone on this thread for making this fact abundantly clear.

Tell me - what kind of safeguards would the BNP put in place to prevent further collapse in the sub-prime market?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:47 PM

""Outlining his party's anti-immigration stance, Mr Griffin said: "Not all immigrants are terrorists but all terrorists are immigrants or their immediate descendants."

err.... Where did David Copeland immigrate from?""


Or NICK GRIFFIN, who fits the definition of a terrorist as well as almost any other.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:34 PM

On the grounds of what we did at the time of the British Empire - forcing ourselves on other countries, stealing large tracts of land exploiting their workforces, and getting rich at ether countries expense.

By the fact that we needed a workforce to carry out work which we were not prepared to dirty our hands to do.

thats just for starters

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:23 PM

do you see us the british immigrating to their country? NO!
There are around 700,000 British expats living in Spain, and most of those can't even be arsed to learn the language. I say round them up and put zem in de camps!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:10 PM

Hmm, true colours showing there.
Nick Griffin has been filmed at a meeting with the former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke explaining how he would seek to woo the public by using warm words - freedom, security, identity, democracy.
"Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle we've got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, the British people might change their mind and say, 'Yes, every last one must go.' But if you offer that as your sole aim to start with, you're gonna get absolutely nowhere. So, instead of talking about racial purity, we talk about identity."
Looks like you've jumped the gun Rory.
Still, the likelihood is, as a BNP supporter, that you're either a fraudster, a sexual deviant, a drug pusher or a thug, and certainly of limited intelligence, we we can't expect you to heed your master's call.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Rory
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:31 PM

at the end of the day, Britain consits of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales primarily so why is it that these countries are filled with foreigners? what right do they have to be here? do you see us the british immigrating to their country? NO!

i say vote BNP and lets have the lot out they shouldn't be here so why are they?

BNP! BNP! BNP!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 May 09 - 10:40 AM

Oklahoma, USA - were McVeigh and Nichols immigrants?
Any more lies you want to tell Griffin?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 24 May 09 - 03:26 AM

Back to the point at hand Cllr. I'm with you all the way. Hopefully, being a friend, you have told her your views and that you feel you can no longer carry on with the friendship. That may help more than you know. It's such a hard thing to face though, and a very tough call so I'll just wish you the best of luck.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 09 - 12:43 AM

Two anyway, Art.

'
"Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?"




I was kinda hoping a BNP person would answer this. '


I'm still hoping. However, I guess the little BNP darlings are abed now--or out beating up immigrant people. Likely old ladies and old men.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 May 09 - 12:38 AM

LOX, you are assuming, I think in error, that more than one BNP person is posting. It would be interesting, as I said a while ago, if one of the mods would see if all of these posts come from the same person...but wouldn't that violate the "one GUEST, one name" rule?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 09:27 PM

to rifleman I APOLOGIZE the way i read your' post earlier sounded like you were for the bnp. i am the one who hasn't read things the way they were meant. my only defence is that this thread gets me really REALLY MAD!! and in my haste to defend peoples rights for free speech i read into your' post a threat that wasn't actually there.

i think i have done enough groveling now and still think that the bnp SUCK.


getting back to the point, trying everything you can to stop people making what you think is a great mistake is the sign of true friendship

when and if they decide it is not for them and they HAVE made a mistake it might be too late for the friendship to get back to where it was.
i hope in this case that will not happen
sorry again for my presumptions and not reading properly.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:55 PM

I welcome more posts from BNP members.

Why?

Because as I read back through this thread again, it is increasingly obvious how poorly informed they are and how weak their arguments are.

By contributing to this thread and attempting to pit their wits against the mudcat regulars they are merely drawing attention to their inadequacies.

And the more deeply held their conviction that that is not so, the more foolish they look.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:48 PM

Or Guy Fawkes ...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:38 PM

Outlining his party's anti-immigration stance, Mr Griffin said: "Not all immigrants are terrorists but all terrorists are immigrants or their immediate descendants."

err.... Where did David Copeland immigrate from?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:16 PM

I got that too, Jon, and I also got a 404, can't be found

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:40 PM

I'll admit to a mistake above. I'd missed it was .org.uk, not .org.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:05 PM

I get this when I try:

"Timeout on server
Connection was to www.bnp.org.uk at port 80"

Probably a server down.

BTW, this British supporting party appears to me to be using American hosting services.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:38 PM

Is it just me or has http://www.bnp.org.uk/ (BNP homepage) moved, been taken down, something?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:14 PM

just recording it now, thanks

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:06 PM

There's a programme of Channel 4 right now called Hitler: The Rise of Evil

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:05 PM

to rifleman my mind does NOT change with every posting, i stand by every single one of them! i threw in the comment of the army becuase ins't what we are talking about( the bnp and bully boys)isn't that what are armed services supposed to be fighting, people who hate the freedom of speech? yeah i know we wre lied to and the reason they gave for going in doesn't stand up, but if it weren't for a minority there would have been peace in iraq years ago.


as for agreeing that our country is in a mess, if you think it isn't then you must live somewhere totally different to me. i was only agreeing with the statements NOT the way to fix it, that i admit idon't have a clue as to the way forward on a national scale is obvious on other threads.
i do want my vote to count and don't want to end up regreting who i put my trust and faith in. is that so bad?   if others thought about where their vote is going so much then NO-ONE would vote bnp would they?

so maybe you should look at your' own reasons for posting on this thread.


even if my mind wasn't totally made up that's the whole piont of us discussing something not just to say i belive this and i know that i'm right.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:42 PM

There are situations that test friendships, and there are those that stretch them beyond breaking point, and if in a friendship that point is passed then they individual has to weigh up the loss of a friend against loss of personal principles. The breaking point varies from friendship to friendship and relationship to relationship (historical example the English and American civil wars where it was know for brother to fight brother). That point could be something as trivial as supporting the wrong football team.

At the other extreme would you expect any friends that Ian Huntly once had to stand by them? Many people find the BNP and what it stands for so odious, that it is the action of standing for the BNP that breaks the friendship. If one person breaks off a relationship because the other had an affair, it is the affair that breaks the relationship.

With regards to gumption, who had more, the victims and survivors of Nazi persecution or the SS/Gestapo.?

Anyway I was going to leave this thread to other folkies at least for tonight.....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:32 PM

"Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?"




I was kinda hoping a BNP person would answer this.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:27 PM

My last two posts were in response to a British Nazi Party guy. It was deleted by a clone.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:26 PM

Dear Nottingham.

Think back to what the Sheriff of Nottingham represented. Then think again if that is who you want to be. I am aware of the argument that John Lackland was a gifted administrator but he was a despot and oppressor too - and in the end defeated.

It seems to me that you have no understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:26 PM

the only two names of "guests I've mentioned are

GUEST,Scopes and Burning Bridges

"o thought this was suppossed to be a discussion not an all out war.oh shit, i am not equipped properly. as for your' jack russel(l)s they wouldn't get too far against steel toe caps!

No mention of "our brave soldiers" here

AND I,ve had a look at your postings on other threads, your mind changes with every single post you make. You really don't have a clue, do you sunshine?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

"The British National Party would probably make it into a parliament elected by proportional representation, too. It would shine a torch into the dirty little corner where the BNP defecate on our democracy, and that would be much more powerful than duffing them up in the street — which I'm also in favour of."

- Billy Bragg in an interview with The Guardian, 2004

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:24 PM

So, back to the topic. Why does the BNP align itself with so many hate groups?

Would the friendless SoN answer that?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:22 PM

I understand the meaning of Nazism, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:07 PM

Why is the British Nazi Party aligned with hate groups around the world? KKK, Aryan Nations, Canadian Heritage Party? I've no doubt they have--in fact I KNOW they have--Stormfront members.

Would one of you British Nazi Party guests--hell, you're all guests because you do NOT have the courage of your convictions--not when you'd have to stand alone, anyway. There's a word for that: gutless. But, that's to be expected of people who fashion themselves after people like Hitler, Eichmann, et.al.

What's your timeline for the death camps? Any idea?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:57 PM

Doers anyone notice that the British Nazi Party people have no names?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:56 PM

to rifleman,
god you know how to make me laugh!!!!

if you had been reading this tread then you would know that i HATE the bnp,however it really does make me question your' ability to argue with reason when you resort to threats from your' dogs.

"i'm not properly equipped for war"


was supposed to be a dig at the present government, for our brave soldiers. which you would have seen if you would get your' head out of your' arse and read things properly.


as for the threat i was making, if any of your' ankle biters tried to have my feet then i would doubt that they could get through steel toe caps and yes i would kick them. do you honestly think anyone would just stand there and let them?




still chuckling.....you should be a comedian!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:22 PM

From: jeddy - PM
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:29 PM

o thought this was suppossed to be a discussion not an all out war.oh shit, i am not equipped properly. as for your' jack russels they wouldn't get too far against steel toe caps!

Now THIS is a threat, and the true colours of the BNP shining through.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mind you, the left can be equally as bad as the right, with the old propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:17 PM

oh, and ellie....

I suppose you would like to go back the the imperialistic "good old days" of the British Empire, where our economy thrived on the back of exploiting as much of the rest of the world we could get away with.

Stripping other countries of its wealth and resources, and exploiting their workers in the process.

oh, and Ellie as you are so interested in history, find out how many of the Indian army died in the 2nd world war defending the freedoms that you now enjoy and then tell me that you are not proud to have Indian people living here ... and Nepalese.

And while you at it. think about how we should be proud to live in a country where asylum seekers often give up everything in their own country, often including family members where they know they can be safe from persecution.

and when you start going on about how good living was 50 years ago, then as a history expert tell me how many working class people left school at 14 years old, tell me whether the infant mortality rate from childhood diseases has gone up or down.

Do you have your own colour tv, automatic washing machine, dare I say a car, a hifi, a computer? Has the standard of living really deteriorated that much over 50 years?

Your the historian... go on tell me.......

How many wars have there been between EU member states since the Treaty of Rome? Do you even know what the Treaty of Rome is?

Do you want to go back to the good old days when people with disabilities and learning disabilities and mental health problems were largely institutionalised?

We have a long way to go, a hell of a long way before we finally get to a fair, equitable, and socially just society, but step by step we are getting there, governments make wrong decisions on the way, and have different outlooks on the best way to get their (the traditional labour view of planned interventions against the traditional conservative view of laissez faire.

But... popularist finger wagging is no evidence of the BNPs ability or even willingness to act in the interest of ALL British people, irrespective of race and ethnic origin.

You refer to history, there is no evidence from the history of BNP and its spin-offs that it is not a neo-nazi collective of racist bigots, no matter how much you rant.

Anyway, I have a life to live, and I've wasted enough of my bank holiday weekend on you lot already.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:00 PM

Err- fascinating. The EU is Marxist? For heaven's sake try really hard to read a little bit of elementary EU law. The EU started life as the Common Market - with free movement of workers, goods, services and capital.   That's what it was for: the benefit of the marketplace. The underlying concept of the EU is capitalist.

And if I have to pick a broadcasting company that is the least biassed and most balanced in the world - I'll pick the BBC. I have some idea what I'm talking about, having been an entertainment and media lawyer for over 30 years. The BBC of course was the main source of truth to those occupied by the third Reich: maybe that's why you don't like it.

If the BBC is telling lies about you, why not sue it? Before you shoot your mouth off, I know the answer. Honestly I do. One of my fields of expertise is libel advice. Now speculate how I might know.

And before you tell me I know jack about inner cities, I teach some of the time near the Elephant and Castle, and am frequently the only white person on the street or in the bus on the way home. The oafs I see making trouble are more often than not white, rather than black. Over 90% of my students there are not WASP.

Beowulf, this is not the mischief making of Ratatosk the messenger.



Anonymous Guest with capital letters - you need to consider the roots of all the economic evils you cite. It was not Marxism. It was capitalism. But please, astound us with your ability and learing and explain how you are going to create an economy for the good of the people. If you have any ideas, the world is waiting right now for a way to cure the economic mess - and the last recession was cured by what the USA then thought of as socialist construction programmes (and the Germans have condemned as simple Keyesianism). But consider, the only two programmes showing any sign of working so far are the UK under Gordon Brown (at last showing SOME socialist principles in some places) and the USA - under what too many Americans call Barak Obama's socialism.

Also explain how you are going to create a National Health Service without black doctors and nurses, a nationalised rail service without the thousands of West Indians who came here when the UK was desperate for their labour, a functioning economic environment when many facilities depend on immigrant workers. Where will you buy a tin of Tennants and 10 cheap cigarettes after 9 pm when there are no Asian run corner shops? Have you been to a Post Office lately? Who served you? You cannot expect all these contributors to the wellbeing of the country to stay and work here without a level laying field and an equal opportunity of success.

What are you going to do about farming? The fields are still here (apart from the ones covered in new houses). Who lives in the houses? You do. Who buys cheap imported food? You do. Who works in the fields for the food we do grow here? I somehow don't believe that's you. Everyone picking the crops near my home appears Eastern European.

What are you going to do about building? THe builder about to start work on my house is Hungarian. Why? Because he came consistently well recommended, without a single report of the ripoffs from ENglish builders (the ones who made Esther Rantzen rich). Have you watched the TV programmes about workmen from hell? Who are they (mostly)?

Who were the banks and bankers who were fooled out of their money (our money)? Why, mostly English and Scottish companies, run by the English and Scottish, and regulated by the English and Scottish. How are you going to do that differently?

Who dismantled exchange control, so that foreign speculators could bankrupt our banks? Why, the only Englishwoman you admire, Margaret Thatcher. The same person who laid waste to our industries and the jobs of our workers for doctrinaire capitalist reasons.

Education: come on, what are you going to do? Remember I have recently been teaching in two universities, one where hardly any of my students are white, and one where almost all are. I also not long ago taught in a college of further education (I hope you know the difference) - and the managers who reneged on my entry deal were white and the idle and talkative students who made teaching there unsatisfying were the white ones.

Law and Order: You do remember the corruption of the old Sweeney don't you? Who ran it? White men like you. Name our most famous criminal gangs? The Krays and the Richardson Family. White men like you. I have a friend who until recently rented his used car lot from Charlie Richardson. Don't tell me I don't know.

I suppose you still believe that Mussolini made the Italian trains run on time.

Sometimes I despair about evolution, I really do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:30 PM

oh and Ellie - members of the folk world - i.e. those of us not hiding behind anonymity probably each have more interest and knowledge of history in their little fingers than the whole of the BNP.

A large part of folk song reflects the social history - and folk song played a major part in the civil rights movement.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:23 PM

You will go some way to beginning to look respectable when.

(1) You voluntary send a dossier to the Crown Prosecution Service of all illegal activities (including incitement and conspiracy) by your members not just publically, but also in private meetings

(2) You voluntary appear as witness for the prosecution for all the above.

(3) The BNP denounces combat 18 and all BNP members who have had any contact with them.

(4) That you openly admit the details of all BNP canditdates with criminal convictions related to incitement and violence in your election material.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:14 PM

ellie to whom are you talking to?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:07 PM

Oh you poor soul! The Bloated Broadcasting Company ! Is that the best you can do ? I think the whole world and their dogs now know all about them ! I suggest you read up on your history, that is if you know any. I think that you are probably a child of the lib/lab/con who wasn't taught history but have been brain washed with Marxism. Never mind it's not too late. You could always do an Open University degree and catch up !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:51 PM

So you repatrition policy (of which compulsory has not been ruled out by your leader) will only apply to non-BNP members?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:51 PM

I personally ! think they sound ! over ! excited.

I don't know why I keep reading this, but it makes me wonder if now in the UK feels anything like Germany when the Nazis were on the rise. They looked good to an awful lot of people despite what they were beneath the righteousness.

As for the name calling and other stuff, what do you think if you're on the street and someone comes up to another person and slaps her? You immediately want to defend the innocent person. You get the same thing when you attack these manipulative bastards people here. I agree, BTW, but you'll just make them into low-rent martyrs.

The US elected Bush and look how he turned out. He wasn't nearly as bad as the BNP sounds. Remember, anything that can go wrong, will.

Here are some nice videos I found.

I'd like it if any thread about the BNP would be open to members and regular guests only. These opportunistic nasties find us via Google or other chat room/forum and he can just come in here and pile on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,beowulf
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:42 PM

Totally agree with the last two comments. Most of the others are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think this country will be the same in 30/40 years time. Thankfully I probably won't be around, but my grandchildren will and they won't be thanking me if I don't make a stand now. I have watched my country deteriorate over the last 50 years and I'm glad my old dad's not alive, he would be going frantic, he gave up 6 years of life for you cretins.
Judging by your comments you probably live far away from an inner city, so keep having a pint in your sleepy vllage local while it still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:27 PM

The Nazis and the Fascists are the lib/lab/con who are trying to create a new EUSSR. No thanks - I don't want that. I just want my country back the way it used to be. I don't want to live in a New World Order of Communism ! I'll be voting BNP come hell or high water. You can make what stupid inane comment you like. I will not be changing my mind. I've had enough of all the sleaze parties. They've had fifty years of doing exactly what they want. I was never asked if I wanted to live in a multiculti country ! We were doing just fine as we were until the traitor Edward Heath sold us out to Europe for the price of a boat ! The then governmebt knew that the Brits would never sign away their sovereignty, so they made up a pack of lies called the Common Market and bought in their Marxism under cover ! If you're happy with the way thimgs are and you want to live in a multiculti Marxist Hellhole then keep voting for them. I think for myself !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:10 PM

Just like it was for millions of Europeans under the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:06 PM

Every party uses models even the liebour party when they film their elections is all done using fake people and fake scenery ! Nothing wrong or unusual about that ! As for the BNP, roll on the day when they are in power. Our country will be a far better place for them !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:52 PM

I believe the reason for having three Jack Russels is: -

one on one foot

one on the other

and the other somewhat higher and in between...


I also think that "Burning Bridges" was intended to imply a threat to me. Phone first chaps. I'll have the chain saw running.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:36 PM

Be careful, you don't want you jack russels to catch rabies....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:29 PM

o thought this was suppossed to be a discussion not an all out war.oh shit, i am not equipped properly. as for your' jack russels they wouldn't get too far against steel toe caps!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:12 PM

I have no intentions of going anywhere, Lox, I do love a good fight, and so do my dogs (three fiesty Jack Russells who have a;ready had a "BNP experience")

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 11:51 AM

Rifleman,

Keep your passport in your drawer and don't buy your ticket just yet.

They aren't going to get into government.

They will be looking to disrupt our society come june the 4th and to stir up discord and hatred.

We won't let them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 11:22 AM

"Yes Lox I am a BNP voter"

The sad sod keeps asking why why? Jesus is he(?) so thick???

" believe the BNP might target other sites though"

and that's exactly what the like of GUEST,Scopes and Burning Bridges are doing here.

The way forward, you say? Then just maybe I need to make sure my travel documents are in order.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 May 09 - 10:44 AM

Re. reports that the "construction workers" in the BNP pamphlet are actually American models, and the Spitfire was being flown by a Polish Air Force pilot. It was reported on the news this morning that the "NHS doctor" is likewise an American male model. Plus, the "aged couple" are actually Italians. That only leaves the mother and baby and the soldier in full dress uniform. What nationalities will they turn out to be I wonder?

Sounds like these jokers have imbibed that maxim of Joseph Goebells, the one about telling a lie s often enough to make people believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 09:18 AM

are = our

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:56 AM

Should we be exporting are garbage?   What have the Russian people ever done to us? - apart from Chelsea :)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: alanabit
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:47 AM

I have met many first generation UK citizens, who embody all the values, which I like to think of as British: Honesty, hard work, kindness and humility.
I have met many people, who have UK citizenship by an accident of birth, whom I would prefer not to associate with as fellow citizens: racists, bigots and foul mouthed louts on the rampage through other peoples' cities, as they defile and disgrace our flag.
With the BNP's enthusiasm for expatriation, why can we not deport those in the second group to a country in which theír Fascist thuggery would currently find resonance - like Russia perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:35 AM

Azizi,

I agree that it is very important not to allow minor semantic differences to blow up into personal issues.

I also agree that it is important to understand someones reasons and history before commenting too hastily.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:25 AM

Lox,

I would stay away from sabotaging ANY site. You are in the wrong period and may get caught.

I would also see no point in saying going over to a BNP or whoever site to argue my case.

I believe the BNP might target other sites though, eg. I believe English folk music is of interest at the moment and Mudcat is the biggest Internet site where this is discussed. The paranoid in me would be very surprised if it wasn't known about with people able to put in a good word for them when opportunity arose long before this thread started.... but that is the paranoid in me.

In that sense though, I suppose one could ask oneself what other interests they genuienly do have and try to have a presence willing to speak out even if it's only say on a gardening forum where someone finds the BNP the best option. I don#k know... never though about this before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:21 AM

I am not thinking of BNP originated sites, but other sites like this one that covers subject we, and other people hold dear, and possible other well regulated sites that are set up for non-partizan political debate.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:12 AM

I don't know SPB,

but something I would say is that it could be worth exercising caution.

I am not a computer techie, but it could be that sabotaging a bnp chat forum could make you vulnerable to reprisals.

Remember that evry post you make comes from a specific IP address and while on sites like this one that information is held in careful confidence, you might not be able to guarantee the same sort of assurances from a BNP site.

We'd need to ask a techies advice.

Joe?

What could go wrong if someone in your position on a different website misused the data available to them?

Is it something that could be done easily?

How would a contributor to such a forum go about protecting themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:05 AM

I imagine that BNP members are happy to see those of us who are against them spending some of our energy arguing among ourselves.

There are many ways to show ones' distaste for and opposition to this heinous political party. IMO, making reasoned points and sharing text and video documentation are important, and it's also important to forcefully and vehemently express one's views about this group and its members. If all of the comments on this thread were reasoned and lacking emotional expression, I for one would wonder if the posters really felt strongly about how terrible that organization is.

Living as I do in the United States, I first learned about the BNP from reading Mudcat threads. I would remind posters to this thread that-in many ways all the Mudcat threads about the BNP are a continuation of the same thread. While this is the first time that I have posted to a BNP thread, this isn't the first time that many Mudcatters such as Bruce have posted to threads about . It seems to me that rather than labeling his postings on this subject "as repeat[ing] the same shallow profanities over and over again in a mind numbing mantra of self important barking", it would be better to become acquainted with his entire posting history about the BNP.

Furthermore, let me also say that if I ever availed myself of opportunities to address the heinous American hate groups such as the KKK, the White Aryan Nation, and the skin heads, I would wish that I knew far more profanity than I do. IMO, cursing at them would be good for my soul and also would call some folks' attention to the fact that I feel passionately about my hatred and my opposition to these groups and all that they stand for.

That said, I very much hope that our energy on these Mudcat threads is directed against the BNP and other hate groups and not against any of us who are against such groups even if we may disagree with how that opposition is expressed.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:01 AM

Not just this forums, but other forums where BNP may be soreading their lies and deceit to win over hearts and minds of votors. If anyone knows of any other fora/forums where similar debate is taking place, please let me know. if it is against mudcat policy to post clickies to these then please email me

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:56 AM

In the meantime,

Engaging a BNP supporter online in a chat forum may not affect their opinion, but anyone reading the thread will be able to read through the debate and if they are undecided they will be swayed by the more persuasive argument.

Don't forget that there are many people who read these threads without posting, some of whom are just passing through and not even regular mudcat lurkers.

Anyone reading through the above thread would see that the BNP has been thoroughly discredited and the BNP supporter has been able to provide no defence of his position.

In that regard, the above thread is serving an extremely useful and effective purpose.

Those posts which contain little substance will be given little if any attention and the more substantive and patiently explained posts will have the most influence.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:47 AM

I have had face to face experiences with the BNP and had a drink in a BNP pub

I have no matching experience but, personally, I would not simply dismiss the BNP as a group of thugs. I think the ability to wear a (to some) more appealing face exists and is more worrying.

If I lost a friend to the BNP, it would be difficult to know what to do about it,

I don't know what I would do if a friend or family was involved.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:43 AM

On an open forum like this then we show as much truth as the time between now and the June elections allows.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: billybob
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:38 AM

I am amazed! The BNP have set up a stall in Connaught Avenue Frinton on Sea, you must have heard of us, no pub, no fish and chips and save the famous gates!
The frightening thing is they have a huge crowd round them of white haired oldies who are not telling them to leave but seem to be persuaded by what they are saying!
Help!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:37 AM

here here lox. maybe we are giving these idiots too much of our time!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:21 AM

Jon,

You are right to point out that allowing yourself to be provoked by BNP goading only threatens to undermine any claims you might have to some kind of moral authority.

The last thing that any of us needs is to open ourselves up to accusations of thuggery and boorishness from fascists, whose laughter, as they watch us froth at the mouth in righteous indignation, rings from valley to hill.

I have had face to face experiences with the BNP and had a drink in a BNP pub and I can tell you from my experience that one of the main differences between BNP members and the rest of us is that they are unable to engage their brains in a process of critical thought without losing their temper and issuing threats and abuse.

If I lost a friend to the BNP, it would be difficult to know what to do about it, but I think I would let them go until I saw them become a menace to innocent bystanders, at which point I would confront them.

Though I wwould probably warn them first so they knew exactly where they stood.

I look forward to reading more posts from you as I am quite sure you will make varied and interesting contributions and will not simply repeat the same shallow profanities over and over again in a mind numbing mantra of self important barking.

I am also confident that you will not abuse innocent bystanders for offering friendly advice.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:06 AM

Reposting with name but leaving my disagreement with Peace out. It's not worth it.
----
Anyway, enough of this and back to the subtopic of how to deal with the BNP here. It's easy at home. If they send leaflets, they go in the bin. If they knocked on the door, they would be asked to go away. With something like the European elections, I will vote "anything but the BNP", etc. But what do you do on an open forum where some will be trying to discuss?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:51 AM

This has degenerated into a contest to see how long the thread can be kept alive by one guest using multiple names to give the impression that the BNP actually have a massive support base.

The truth or otherwise of that is the lack of parliamentary seats.

My suggestion for a BNP election slogan,..........Charmless, Hopeless, and Witless! VOTE FOR...."THUGS 'R US"!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:20 AM

For those of you who do not want to go to the 'kids social website.'

The BNP in their own words
"Honestly now, would you prefer your kid growing up in Oldham and Burnley or 1930s Germany? It would be better for your child to grow up there." Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4

"Meanwhile, the indigenous side in the low-to-medium level civil war brewing in this country is getting its training… It's all going to get very messy."Nick Griffin's blog on BNP website

"Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal… [It] is like suggesting forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence." Then BNP London organiser and GLA candidate, Nick Eriksen

AIDS is "a friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it." Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4

So, Burning Bridges, a bunch of great chaps?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Burning Bridges
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:39 AM

So much fear of the BNP. Looks as if you guys know the party will take a few seats next month. Stop spreading lies about them, they are a great bunch od chaps. As for making referances to youtube, is that not a type of kids social website like bebo ? Do you enjoy flicking thought these pages, I bet you do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:54 AM

I sometimes wonder if neanderthals were all that bad.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:22 AM

"Not at all Peace. You been waiting for support to put that up?"

No, Pip, it was simply my first time back to the thread since you posted your remark. Now, kindly gfy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:24 PM

They don't believe that at all, they want others to believe that so that they came rise to power in a divisive society.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:21 PM

wouldn't that solve all our problems with them coz it would knock the wind out of their sails?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:13 PM

Ah but if they were any cleverer they wouldn't believe that problems like the recession, unemloyment, crime, homelessness etc etc etc are caused by foreigners and they wouldn't be fooled into thinking that kicking them out solves anything.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:00 PM

isn't it a good job that they can't develop, almost everyone can see them for what they truely are. if they were any cleverer then they would be able to blend into society better and we would not be having this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:34 PM

I am reminded of the scene in "to kill a mockingbird" in which Scout recognizes the members of the lynch mob by name, thus depriving them of their anonymity and undermining their united mob mentality resolve.

A BNP rep can be a BNP robot if allowed to be, but he can be exposed as a human being in front of his peers and in the spotlight of his own honesty.

Racist hatred hinges on denial and is propped up by bloody minded determination, unity and support.

The one thing that makes Fascists most dangerous - they never squabble amongst themselves.

Though I hasten to add that the same inability to discuss debate and therefore develop ideas is also their weakpoint and they are unable to evolve politically as a result, despite the best efforts of Nick Griffin.

Which is why they are generally such a bunch of neanderthals.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:19 PM

I agree, though I would also recognize that giving up on ones wayward family member would be equally traumatic and difficult to contemplate.

At least if you are confronting them you can keep an eye on them and know how safe they are.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:11 PM

Lox, I agree.

Yet doing either of these is easier said than done as both situations would be emotionally difficult for that person's friends/family.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:05 PM

Azizi,

If the friend in question were just an ordinary citizen with the samee political clout as the rest of us, who happened to hold those views and continued to hold them in the face of the very clear reasons given against those views, then I would naturally begin to drift away from them and have difficulty dealing with them.

In this specific case, they have chosen to stand for public office on a BNP platform, in which case they should be confronted until they stop doing so.

My thinking is that the person who is standing will find it much harder to be a hitler pastiche with friends and family in the audience.

It would be harder for them to deny their conscience in such a context.

It would also make it difficult for the other BNP members at such a rally to turn violent or kick the dissenters out, since to do so would be to tar their candidate with that brush in the eyes of his/her own family and friends.

It would be a big spanner in the works for both the BNP and the wayward friend.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 May 09 - 07:16 PM

...but if I had to choose between MPs riding the gravy train, and MPs promoting race hatred, ...

Of course with BNP candidates becoming MPs there'd be no need to make that choice, because you'd have both those alternatives rolled into one.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:52 PM

Not at all Peace. You been waiting for support to put that up?

Anyway, Peace. I dislike the BNP. I just think facing them with facts like the Youtube clip and other information is rather more constructive than coming onto threads to call them assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:51 PM

As a PS, neither have I ever told anyone who to vote for. However, I would strongly suggest NO ONE vote for the British Nazi Party. Howzat, Scopes?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:43 PM

'Peace, If I was one of the "BNP supporters/converts" that come here, rather than being put off by your insults, I might find you are helping me.'

Then this will be right up your alley, Guest Jon

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:17 PM

to azizi you will always be welcome here no matter what small minded pricks think. did you all know that bnp and ukip are friends? i didn't til some nice person on another thread told me sorry but i can't remember names once i've left the thread coz my brain isn't that big.
i thought it important to tell you cox i was thinking of voting for them BUT NOT NOW. as for printing this persons name i also think that you can try and talk them out of it but when it goes public they will be in the shit and do they really want to put thier' family and friends through the muck raking, if they still go ahead then you have to cut all ties untill they are ready pulicly admit they were wrong.

okay i was ranting sorry

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:15 PM

Scopes, "MP's have stole"?

FFS, go back to school. When you can write grammatical English you stand a chance of entering political debate, but, I warn you, the ability to think helps.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:05 PM

As a Person of Color, I'm heartened to see so many Mudcatters indicating their disgust of the BNP and putting that disgust into action by publicly advocating against that group.

I'm also sad to think that there are members of this forum who would not respect me just because my ancestry includes some persons who were not White.

I can understand how a person could have been friends with people with whom they disagree politically. However, I agree with most of the member posters on this thread that there are some issues of disagreement which should mean the end of a friendship. When this happens to friends and family it can be very difficult and very sad.

For the record, I agree with Lox's approach for the person to call out his or her "friend" on the issues. But at some point it seems to me that there's no sense wasting one's energy trying to talk sense to people who believe in the things that BNP and other similar groups believe in.

And it will come as no surprise to folks here, that I'm much closer aligned to Bruce's no holds bar attitude toward the BNP than Joe's position that "these discussions are a chance for us to make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it". There's more than enough documentation online about who the BNP really are and what they advocate. If Mudcatters treats them kindly, they will use this forum as a propaganda base.

But most folks here already know that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:49 PM

MP's have stole our money recently, other MP's committed sex crimes and lied. Some served prison terms.

Just like senior BNP figures, in fact.
Some have convictions for kiddy-fiddling, others for violence and others for fraud. Heard about the two activists trying to smuggle under-age schoolgirls into the conference hotel, only to have the poor girls run screaming from their rooms? It makes disturbing reading
Or, Scopes, are you saying you support them because they're truly representative of the people who vote for them? ;-)

the chap on our local council has done so much for the people of the area

I think you should name him, because it's clear that the majority of BNP councillors have done fuck all since being elected. Let him bask in a little glory!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:56 PM

I have never said don't vote.
I have never said don't vote BNP if you really support what they stand for.

What I have said, repeatedly, is if you do vote BNP, be aware of what they are really about, look at their history. Don't just look at what they are saying publically, but also how they behave privately.

The whole expenses thing is an issue, but if I had to choose between MPs riding the gravy train, and MPs promoting race hatred, I know which is the lesser of two evils for me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:30 PM

Ok then I will just point out your error.

you said "Please live and let live"

and you said "the BNP is the way forward I feel"


The shallowest comparison of these two positions shows them to be entirely contradictory.


I'll let you debate it with yourself.


Long live your denial.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Scopes
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:27 PM

Not up for a lengthy debate with you over this subject Lox, the BNP is the way forward I feel.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:24 PM

Ok Scopes, I get what you're trying to say.

but lets look at this for a second.

You said "please live and let live".


If thats your view then the BNP ain't for you.

It is there view that Racial minorities should not be "let live"

It is there view that Gays should not be "let live"

It is their view that these minorities should not be allowed to "let live".

It is their view that these minorities should be excluded from society.


That is why the BNP must be confronted.

That is why I must confront someone who chooses the BNP.


Because I believe in "live and let live"


And I believe that this principle is so important that the BNP should never be allowed in to power, because if they get into power, they will not stop short of interfering in the lives of minorities, they will interfere in my life for the views I hold and they will require you to be true to the party mantra and to victimize friends of yours whose opinions don't fit.


Scopes. We must "live and let live" and we must do our utmost to prevent anyone from undermining that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:15 PM

Goatfell,

Thanks for your response, I shot from the hip there and could have been a bit less hasty in my response to your earlier post.

I totally understand your problem with all this walking on eggshells.

I hate it too.

That is one of the rasons that I hold a deep personal resentment against racism as it is responsible for me having to think about who I might offend, and how my views might be perceived, especially on borderline or grey area issues.

It is the racists who are responsible for this political straight jacket, not those who are aginst it.

If it wasn't for the racists and their history of violence there would be no raw nerves to worry about.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Scopes
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:15 PM

Yes Lox I am a BNP voter, the chap on our local council has done so much for the people of the area. In saying that I am not here as so many other seem to be to tell those in the United Kingdom who they should vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:09 PM

Scopes, are you saying that you are supporting the BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Scopes
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:00 PM

Rifleman why be so nasty to people ? you and I will have a vote in the elections next month and neither of us are paid to promote a party.

Please live and let live.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:51 PM

the latter part of the above post has to do with what? Other than the mild tittilation of gossip-mongers and their ilk! By the way nice cut and paste job from Yahoo, sunshine *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Scopes
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:40 PM

Please allow anyone who wishes to use their vote to do. It is their choice who they vote for.

MP's have stole our money recently, other MP's committed sex crimes and lied. Some served prison terms.

We need a general election to clear the air and tell the new MP's step out of line and you lose your job.

A cross-dressing burglar who broke into a house and filmed himself wearing a schoolgirl's underwear has been jailed indefinitely.

Gary Marie, 42, of Burnley, Lancashire, would break into unoccupied properties or spy on his female victims to indulge his sexual fantasies.

Balaclava-clad Marie was spotted by officers on a routine patrol in Padiham during the early hours of March 19 last year. He tried to escape on a bicycle down a back street but when cornered he pulled out a CS gas canister and squirted the spray in the faces of six officers.

The defendant was eventually overpowered and arrested, and was found to be wearing a woman's white thong and a black sports bra. His balaclava had been fashioned from a pair of knickers and he also carried a device for turning keys and a pair of gloves, the court heard.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:31 PM

It's quite simple really, the animals that make up the general body of the BNP recognise only one basic differentiation, colour. It matters litte what a person is, nationality wise, or where they from, if they're not white, they have no business being in the UK, according to our BNP "friends". You have to speak in simplistic terms in order for the said membership to fully comprehend, thus I stated that I am a non-white, they understand that, they now understand me as an enemy of their "cosy" "English" way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:11 PM

i understand that riflemans' reasons but some people have such p.c views that i was begining to wonder about myself, no i wasn't being self centered just curios about your' veiws on mentioning someones colour no matter what the reason.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:00 PM

"Riflemans reasons on the other hand for pointing out that he is non white are valid as the party he is taking issue with are the BNP and they discriminate against non-whites, so falling into that category he clearly felt he should respond and identify himself as being an irreconcilable BNP opponent on that basis."

Thank you lox, at least some people haven't fallen asleep at the back of the class. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:45 AM

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:22 AM

yes you are, I just wish people were more straight with their words instead of pussyfooting around, people that do pussyfoot around I can't trust because they are not honest. I try and honest.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:48 AM

The trouble is the rumour monger would claim that the non closure was due to their intervention

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:31 AM

Jeddy, of course not.

I should have used Azizi's term - "valueless descriptor"

My ideal society is one where skin colour is used as a valueless descriptor and for no other purpose - "John is brown" and "Fred is white" being mere observations and helpful ways of describing obvious physical charateristics.

My point was that on this thread there is no reason why anyone need to know what colour rifleman is.

Riflemans reasons on the other hand for pointing out that he is non white are valid as the party he is taking issue with are the BNP and they discriminate against non-whites, so falling into that category he clearly felt he should respond and identify himself as being an irreconcilable BNP opponent on that basis.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:28 AM

"James Lloyd (Sandwell).....................recently put out BNP leaflets claiming a local library building was going to become a mosque."

Strangely enough the same rumour has been spreading about one of the libraries in Birkenhead, Merseyside. The rumour has been fuelled because the local council is trying to introduce a massive programme of closing libraries, community centres and many other leisure facilities.

The unfortunate thing for the rumour mongers though is that Birkenhead library isn't on the immediate closure list.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:46 AM

To return to the OP :

Your politics and mine, Mike aka Cllr, are diametrically opposed, but I salute your courage.

I haven't that many friends that I can afford to lose one, but lose one I would and must, if he or she supported the crypto-Nazi BNP.

You and I stand shoulder to shoulder on this.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:14 AM

I'm going to vote alright, but it sure as HELL won't be for the BNP. I'm the grandson of a Fairground Traveller, and proud of my heritage. So what's your heritage GUEST - Daily Mail Reader ?

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:38 AM

Peace, If I was one of the "BNP supporters/converts" that come here, rather than being put off by your insults, I might find you are helping me. I could also argue that I stay as a guest because of the treatment I've seen dished out here.

To the casual reader who judges on whether wording is nice or nasty and thinks/looks no further, I become the victim and the nice guy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:29 AM

There's nothing British about the BNP

It's interesting that those areas which did elect BNP councillors have found that their 'upstanding members' are actually pretty limp, and that the BNP has a record of failing to participate in local council business, of avoiding meetings and of simply failing to deliver to local people.
The BNP has some 20 local councillors across Britain. Here are the records of 12 of those 20:

Luke Smith (Burnley). Was forced to resign after he smashed a bottle into the face of a Leeds BNP organiser. Despite claiming to be the party of law and order, the BNP failed to call in the police and press charges. Smith had only recently been convicted of football violence when he was elected as a BNP candidate. He has had several more recent convictions and was sentenced to 11 months imprisonment after being caught fighting in Manchester.

Brian Turner (Burnley). Was convicted of attacking his wife and a police officer whilst a councillor yet the BNP refused to disown him. In fact they even defended him by issuing a statement saying: "we are not in the business of persecuting our members because the state considers someone guilty."

Dan Kelley (Barking & Dagenham). Resigned from the council only eight months after being elected after admitting that he was completely out of his depth. "There's meetings that go right over my head and there's little point in me being there," he told the local paper even before he resigned.

Richard Mulhall (Calderdale). Is currently facing charges on housing benefit fraud. Despite this the BNP has refused to disown him or demand his resignation if he is found guilty.

Maureen Stowe (Burnley). Left the BNP after admitting that they deliberately told lies to get elected. On leaving the BNP she said: "This is the best thing I could have done. I've got a chance to do a lot of good. Now I think we can pull all the people of Burnley together to improve things for everybody. I keep asking myself how could I have been so stupid as to have anything to do with them."

Robin Evans (Blackburn). Left the BNP after complaining about the drug dealers and football hooligans who dominated his local BNP branch. He also criticised the Burnley BNP councillors as useless.

David Watkins (Sandwell). Dubbed 'possibly the worst councillor in Sandwell,' Watkins attended just 10 out of 63 meetings. Gave up after just one year.

Steve Batkin (Stoke-on-Trent). Steve Batkin attended none of a possible thirty committee meetings in the nine months to March 2005. Batkin has only spoken twice in his first two years as a councillor and one of those was to ask what "abstain" meant. Was once told to stop talking to the media after he questioned key facts relating to the Holocaust, including saying that Jewish people refused to debate the subject because they would be exposed as liars.

Angela Clarke (Bradford). Resigned from the council less than half-way through her term after her performance was criticised by fellow BNP members.

Terry Farr (Epping). Was suspended by the Standards Board after writing abusive letters. The hearing also said that it was fair political comment for a rival candidate to call the BNP Nazi.

Ramon Johns (Broxbourne). Was elected on the promise to campaign for free bus passes for all the elderly but then immediately voted against such a plan once elected.

James Lloyd (Sandwell). Campaigned on a ticket to make parents responsible for the crimes of their children. What he failed to tell voters was that his own son was one of the areas worst offenders. Also recently put out BNP leaflets claiming a local library building was going to become a mosque. When it was proved that this was a lie he did not apologise but simply claimed that somebody had obviously made up quotes from him.

Adrian Marsden (Calderdale). The absent councillor. In the six months to March 2006, Marsden has attended just three council meetings and his work record for his ward constituents has been even worse. However, he managed to find the time and strength to act as a bodyguard to BNP leader Nick Griffin during the recent court case in Leeds. But then again, what can you expect from a man with several convictions and a long history with the violent neo-nazi group Combat 18.

Geoffrey Wallace (Calderdale). Wallace jumped ship from the Tories when he thought he could not win a council seat under the blue flag but refused to call a by-election. He too stood on a ticket to help local people but his record proves he has done nothing of the kind. His recent performance in dealing with casework from local residents is truly shocking and clearly demonstrates his inability to work for local people. In the four months to February 2006 he did only 14.5 hours casework, and all but three were in the last few weeks.

That record alone should make anyone - in Chippenham or anywhere - think twice about voting BNP. And if you have to think twice...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:41 AM

Ever notice that almost ALL the posts from BNP supporters are as Guests?

Yes, indeed, they are proud of their affiliation, aren't they?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And since Joe suggested to me in a rather sarcastic manner that I don't call people from the BNP assholes or mother fuckers, then may I humbly say I think they were 'begat on duchesses by head waiters'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:36 AM

I wasn't finger pointing or making comments for political purposes. The whole point was to highlight that this year BNP have said they are targetting the folk world and women and that this is exactly what has happened. Also that I thought it was sad that, as a friend, because she is standing for BNP in a public election and because I am on their hit list, the BNP say she has to out me and challenge me at every opportunity so it would make things difficult for both of us and what happens when your political party says you must openly stand out against your friends. Can I still be friends with her? The question is will the BNP let her be friends with me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:26 PM

Nobody is suggesting that BNP candidates names are confidential.

Cllr chose not to identify the person here. He wished to disguss his feelings on his situation, not disguss the person concerned. Others chose to ignore that for their own political purposes. It turned the digussion from a point of principle to finger pointing.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:13 PM

the postmen and women wouldn't deliver the bnp leaflets round here, hooray for them, the poor little darlings had to do it all themselves. my only wish was that i'd known what shit was coming through my letterbox, so i could have chucked it back at them.

as for the colour of someones' skin i don't care on a personal level, but if i was ever looking for someone i would mention thier skin colour if it made the one i was looking for stand out.
DOES THAT MAKE ME A RACIST?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:55 PM

Material that is in the public domain cannot be confidential. Go and look up the identitites of BNP candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:23 PM

""and I know that my views are supported by the vast majority of the British public""......DMR!


Now THAT is cloud cuckoo land!

If the VAST MAJORITY of the British public support your views, how come the BNP Party's MPs total PRECISELY ZERO?

Think before you reply, if you CAN think.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:11 PM

""I know they are decent people, and I know that my views are supported by the vast majority of the British public and the Lord Jesus Christ himself.""


DMR, I would NOT advise you to let those "decent" people hear you invoking the support of J. C. Given that HE was a Jew, that would probably get you a good kicking from Nick & Co.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:06 PM

Cllr chose not to identify her here and therefore disguss the matter in confidence, that should have been respected. The breach of that confidence is what I find shameful.

I did not comment on my feels towards her standing on that particular ticket (thats my business), or how she feels about it (that is hers).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:53 PM

Hasn't she "broken her anonymity" by standing? I'm glad you think it's something shameful, and your hint that she does too is perhaps promising.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:48 PM

I do not and would never support the BNP, but I do know the person concerned (altough not well). Unlike others I will not shun or sever all contact with them.

I also know, like and respect Mike (Cllr) and won't fall out with him for the choice he has made. In his opening post he made it totally clear that he would not identify the person by name, gender, or Constituency, and that their identity was not the reason for this thread. I am therefore digusted that others with their own political axe to grind chose to breach that anonimity.

Shameful, utterly shameful!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:29 PM

"why can't you say that you're black or brown and be honest"

This comment implies that Rifleman is dishonest for not saying what you think he should have said.

That is whay I posted above as I did.

Am I wrong to read it that way?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:26 PM

Goatfell,

How someone chooses to descrbe their appearance is their business.

It is also not an essential bit of information as far as this discussion goes, having obviously been directed specifically at the daily mail reader to let him know that he is not only talking to white people on this website.

So your curiosity has no grounds by any means to extend to the apparent outrage you sem to be expressing.

And Riflemans unwillingness to say has no bearing on his character or courage.

In fact, the only reason he has mentioned his colour at all has been in response to Daily Mail Readers apparent support of the BNP.

The BNP is Anti non-white without being specific.

Rifleman is saying that he is non-white without being specific.

The rest is irrelevant detail.


Besides which, in the society that I aspire to, there would be no need to mention any aspect of his skin colour or yours or mine or anyone elses so he is right not to feel any responsibility to inform anyone of his skin colour, any more than he has a responsibility to show his papers on demand.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:28 PM

IF there is a BNP member standing in YOUR Area , as stated above , NOT Voting will get them higher up the proportional scale ! So if you dont want to vote for Conservative or neo Conservative(New Labour) , try Lib Dems or Green , or Independant !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:07 PM

thank you got the message

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 May 09 - 01:43 PM

Goatfell - I was agreeing with you!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 01:14 PM

i never said i was white I said I was kind of white read the post first and then commit about please

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:55 PM

Put your hand against a piece of plain blank paper. Is it the same color? No? Guess what - you aren't white.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:50 PM

why can't you say that you're black or brown and be honest, I'm a kind of white colour so I'm as the pc brigade would say I'm non black/brown in colour

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:45 PM

what colour are you then blue that is non white and so is pink yellow the list is endless

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 21 May 09 - 11:30 AM

GUEST,Daily Mail reader aka Alan Meade. Wind up merchant extraordinaire and beneath contempt.

This from a non-white who wouldn't in to your cosy "British" way of life

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 08:31 AM

there are people that read the daily mail who againest the BNP so maybe these ones are just talking crap when they mention the daily mail, because they don't read it don't tar everyone that buys the papaer with the same brush get yer facts right first before you start accussing them

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 21 May 09 - 08:03 AM

So how do you think the BNP will do in the June elections ? lose seats or gain seats ?

I look forward to taking up this subject with you in a few weeks time.

See you then.

God bless and take care.

Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 May 09 - 07:50 AM

If you do not want to support the main parties, then make sure that the other minority parties get enough votes so that they are above the BNP in the allocation list.

For the sake of humanity - vote, know who you are voting for, what they really stand for, and why you are voting for them. If BNP still get seats, then we will know that there is a big problem with racism and neonaziism growing. If you are going to make a protest vote - don't waste it on the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 09 - 07:44 AM

The Daily Mail is actually very hostile to BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 May 09 - 07:27 AM

Perhaps we should give some free publicity to some of the BNP's senior officers, for instance Mark Collett and Dave Hannam.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 09 - 07:04 AM

Oh I know what I'm doing. Voting. I'm very very clear on which is the lesser of the weevils.

Daily Mail Reader (now there's a contradiction in terms), if you couldn't read the rest of my post, I gave examples of why the behaviour of the seig heil brigade was contemptible, and if you didn't understand that you too are part of the problem.

Fred, remember the introduction to "National Brotherhood Week?"

Don't worry, DMR, you won't know it, it was written by a smart-mouth Jew professor (note to civilised people here, this is irony, not a statement of my own beliefs about said author).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:23 AM

Joe Offer. "I believe wholeheartedly that all people have a fundamental right to immigrate to safe places where they can find housing and employment - especially if their home lands have been affected by imperialism."

Hear, hear, bleepin' well hear hear! One day the human race will come to regard all the other members of the human race as thinking, sensate, emotive people, and we laugh and cry and feel joy and pain precisely because we are human. We are not wogs or packies or yids or Brits or illegal immigrants or factory fodder or targets to be shot at on a battlefield.

One world. One people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:51 AM

I feel Britain will once again become agreat country enjoying the British way of life
Not arf!
Roll on the day when we can start getting serious about:
Getting steaming drunk on Euro-lager, then going off for a Balti and taking the piss out of the Bengali staff before being sick in the back of a Somali taxi on the way home,
Or chucking bricks through the windows of Jewish shops and kicking over some gravestones in a Jewish cemetery,
Or putting up signs saying "no blacks, no Irish" in your window and telling your kids that 'foreigners' are dirty,
Or cheerfully calling someone a nigger, coon or piccaninny without those pinko PC scumbags getting on your case,
Or believing the tripe that's written in the Daily Mail...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:50 AM

It's time for me to get on my soap box again! My grandmother was imprisoned for her work as a suffragette, force fed, became part of the Cat and Mouse Act 'catch 22' situation so that women and working class men had the right to vote. It is now time for the grandchildren of those gallant and courageous women to pick where they left off and Use the vote they won for us. On election day, if for no other reason than to remember what they gave up for us and to honour their memory, go and use your vote.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:38 AM

Britain is a great country and should celebrate it's multi-culturalism proudly.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:36 AM

People have the right to vote as they please and people should respect and accept the result. I feel Britain will once again become agreat country enjoying the British way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 09 - 05:07 AM

We have the same thing here in California - Xenophobe vigilantes who take it upon themselves to fortify the Mexican border to protect us from the "browning of America." They make me sick, and the fact that they're constantly gaining power is frightening.

In the other thread, I mentioned that Micca and I had encountered a BNP supporter on a bus in London. He was drunk, and Micca said he sounded like a Scotsman. He went to every passenger on the bus, demanding to see each person's citizenship papers, complaining how all those "foreigners" didn't belong there. Since I was one of the few people on the bus with a light complexion, he came to me looking for sympathy. I told him, "I'm not a citizen of your country, sir; and I certainly don't agree with you."

Daily Mail Reader, is that my comment from the other thread that you're referring to?

I think we need to recognize that we are all immigrants, that we have what we have because we happen to be lucky - so we have a moral obligation to share with those who have less.

Most of the "immigrants" I saw in England, came from lands that had been part of the British Empire. Their immigration is very much a result of British Imperialism.

I am of European ancestry and live in California, a land that once belonged to Mexico until it was taken over as a result of American imperialism. I think it's appalling that so many Americans, descendants of immigants themselves, have the gall to complain about Mexicans immigrating to a land that once was part of Mexico.

I believe wholeheartedly that all people have a fundamental right to immigrate to safe places where they can find housing and employment - especially if their home lands have been affected by imperialism. Wouldn't you agree, Daily Mail Reader?

-Joe Offer, Colfax, California-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:59 AM

Pastor Niemoller's famous quote (his own preferred version)
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;
And then... they came for me... And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Proportional representation allows the BNP access to funding if they win seats. Not voting at all will help their cause tremendously. Time to speak up.
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:49 AM

Folks.
Listen up.
Daily Mail Reader has made a fundamental point which we should pay attention to.
There is an election coming up for the european parliament and the BNP stands to do well in them.
Why?

2 reasons.
1. Proportional representation in EU elections means that they they don't need to have a masive turnout to win representation in the european parliament.
2. Everyonee is so dissillusioned by the thought of Brown, Darling et al, and so nauseated by the thought of Cameron Osborne et al, that they people are saying they won't vote.

There may be some salt in the jelly and some mustard in the ice cream, but either of them is better than being force fed BNP cake because you didn't choose when you had the chance.

So Daily Mail Reader is right to ask - are you going to vote or are you going to stamp your feet afterwards?

The activist is not the one who points out that the river is dirty, but the one who cleans it up.

Vote - and keep them out of power.

And tell your friends to vote and to pass it on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:46 AM

It look as as if Daily Mail Reader needs to catch up on their reading.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:41 AM

The post above is a fine example of that Joe Offer spoke about on the other thread.

Unfortunately these sort of dispicable comments is what can be expected from the like of this Bridge person as it becomes ever clearer that BNP are winning hearts and minds all over the Country,expect a lot more of it too as polling day gets ever closer,the opposition here are getting more and more worried.

I feel sorry for you Mr. Bridge, this election will prove to be one bridge too far for you I feel. Accept the result and be a good boy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:29 AM

There is a person with whom I am acquainted who used to attend a folk ale to which I go.

Recently (ish) she has developed a relationship with a piece of scum on legs, and has even canvassed and stood for the BNP.

The scum and its spawn came very close to wrecking the folk ale - Mercedes with doors open and wireless blaring Metallica, homophobic remarks to a gay friend of mine, "Well you're all just a bunch of dids aren't you?" to a Romany participant (who scored well with the reply "When you can tell me what it means it may be worth discussing it with you").

I can't separate that behaviour from the person.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 09 - 04:08 AM

My sister and nephew are both racists I hate the racsisim but I love my sister and nephew

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Smedley
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:48 AM

And I forgt to say - this person has chosen to end the friendship, not you, by aligning herself with such despicable views.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:46 AM

Mike; as one who is politically poles apart from you, I am standing here mentally applauding your courage. First to share this dreadful dilemma publically, and secondly to follow a moral course of action when deciding questions of politics. Bravo; you have 100% support from me.
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Smedley
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:44 AM

Am I misreading the link - that constituency has a BNP candidate but their name is male.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:40 AM

Thanks for that, Andy. I have to say I'm surprised and disappointed - though the music world is a broad church, so I suppose it shouldn't come as a huge surprise to see all extremes reflected there. Saddening, though.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:26 AM

Hello all,

I love the humour here as well as the serious comments, though it is a very serious subject.

First let me say he is a she and has emailed me to say

"Not keeping it quiet but would rather keep political discussions private."

So why stand for public office?

As many of the newspapers in UK have - in some, but not all cases quite rightly - shown no aspect of your life from call girls (or boys) to political expenses are private once you are in public office or standing for such in an election.

I have watched quietly and will try to remain so - I have lost a friend - hopefully only temporarily - and I don't mean only until after she is not elected - for that I am sad. I hope she is not elected it would be a sad reflection on the town of Chippenham.

I am however equally concerned that the post that appeared here yesterday naming her has been censored.

Joe or your operatives - sorry - this is public knowledge and is available in Chippenham as anywhere in UK on the council web site. I think you were wrong on that one - sorry.

http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/council/elections/electioncandidates09/electioncandidatedetails.htm?division=chippenhamcepenparkandredlands

Andy

---

If it's public knowledge, then probably there's no reason why the candidate shouldn't be named publicly - George Dale is the name, I believe. There was an anonymous post deleted that may be the one you refer to. The coward who "named names" didn't have the courage to give his own name, so his post was deleted - because the post was anonymous, not because of the content of the message. Your complaint of "censorship" is a little deceptive, isn't it?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:16 PM

Offer him the choice.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:15 PM

I have it!

The brilliance of the small hours!

Let's send them back where they came from. Of course, if, when we trace all the parents and grandparents and great-grandparents etc it turns out that some of the forbears came from different countries (as the odds seem to be) we'll have to cut them up into bits to make sure the right bits go back to the right places. But that would be fair, wouldn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 May 09 - 08:28 PM

I disagree Susan.

I'm with you on the point of continuing to see someone as your friend and yet staying true to your beliefs, but I disagree completely about saying nothing.

If they are standing as a political candidate then they need to get used to being accountable.

That starts with friends.


The thing is, someone who is rigid-minded will not hear a thing said against their position until they are ready to hear it. THAT is when a good friend can stand in firm support--- when the wrongminded one looks for a place to turn toward as they turn away from the bad decisions they have made.... if one remains in communication on "safer" fronts until that time comes, one can accomplish quite a lot. (We do it all the time with our children, don't we, to keep the door open to a better day?)

See, I think the "candidate" will have more than enough attacks against their position to reinforce and entrench that position. A friend can sometimes work more "sense" by just staying away from that tack and quietly being the excellent person they already are. See? It's not an easy path, but it's an available one. Sometimes love is the stronger vehicle to reach a wayward heart.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:38 PM

Do you have a vote in the June election Don ?

Do you accept election results or do you huff ?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:16 PM

I don't think there's anyone here who gives a s**t about what YOU think would be nice.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:02 PM

So how do you think the party will fair in the June elections ?

Would be nice to hear your predictions so we can reflect on them in a few weeks time.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:56 PM

Excellent video, says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1DkVljeRfM

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:05 PM

Mike, I'm with you too, for what it's worth from the US. I'm finding this a bit difficult to believe!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:56 PM

Says it all if they read, and believe, anything in the Mail :-)
Richard, I appreciate your comment and hope you realise it was just one example. I could cite many others but it would not be helpful here unless you want a 5,000 word essay!
I hope SHE [it's a woman not a man] changes her views and sees sense. The BNP have said that this year they are targetting women and folkies.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:47 PM

Daily Mail Reader is a parody we have seen here before.

I think very funny.

Though in this case parodying an american stereotype.

You need to be thinking more along the lines of Gary Bushell or Richard LittleJohn.

"I had that Gordon Brown in the back of my cab once ..." etc

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:43 PM

I note that the only 'Supporter' of your friend makes sure he/she is totally anonymous Mike ! I am with you on this , despite the fact that you are a Tory !!! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:30 PM

Your friend has opened his eyes Cllr. I respect him, as should you. The good Lord has graced him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:28 PM

I'd have thought much less of you had you done otherwise, Mike. There are some things that friendship cannot ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:26 PM

Don T knows I will happily call him a fascist bastard any day of the week. He of course will call me a gin-and-jaguar-belt revolutionary.

Another now deceased 'catter knew that I refused to co-operate in going with him to Tolpuddle one year on the ground that I would not be party to taking a fascist there.

Yet somehow we remain(ed) mostly friends.

But if denying the holocaust renders one unfit to teach (not on the ground that that is racist claptrap, but on the ground that it is stupid and proves inability to learn or teach history) why is the same not true of creationists who teach science?

Communists of course are never extreme, or in denial, but the observers of the truth about humanity that the rest of the world deines (grin). Oh, and also pillars of the UK folk establishment.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:20 PM

Lox, we have to confront which is why I would love to be in an open hustings with them

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:16 PM

I disagree Susan.

I'm with you on the point of continuing to see someone as your friend and yet staying true to your beliefs, but I disagree completely about saying nothing.

If they are standing as a political candidate then they need to get used to being accountable.

That starts with friends.

"how do you reconcile being a candidate for a party whose leader gives advice on how to make nazi language sound PC?"

and

"How do you reconcile being in a party who denies the overwhelming evidence that the holocaust happened and that has the same policies as the Nazis who perpetrated it?"

And you do it till they see the error of their ways or crack and do something stupid.

And you contact their all their friends and family and sustain the pressure on him.

Denial is at the heart of extreme politics, whether extreme Nationalist, extreme communist, extreme islamist or extreme christian fundamentalist.

To tackle it you have to confront them with the thing they are trying to deny.

Cutting off friendships, or compounding the denial by ignoring the subject allows it to grow and fester in the dark.

Subject: RE: BNP: What would you do?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:06 PM

I hope i am a loyal friend to those that are close to me but this is too much.

Forgive me not reading the whole thread. This statement jumped out at me as the relevant portion.

You asked what we would do. I'd like to think I could be a friend AND respect my beliefs, and I'd try to do it something like this:

"I hope you can understand that my position on the BNP is diametrically and firmly opposed to yours, and if our friendship is to continue it must be with a clear undertanding on that point. I believe a day will come when you regret your aligning yourself with them, and until that day comes it will be best if we do not discuss the BNP, at all. I stand ready to be there for you on the day when you realize you can't stomach them. Can we remain friends on that basis?"


Because.... I think anyone you HAVE respected will probably get to that stomach-turning day before too long, and he is really going to need a friend, then. If you cut it off now, he will not know he can turn to you. The cutting-off will be in the way, see? So I would expect of myself to sacrifice my own comfort-level (it would be very hard) to the greater need I believe my friend will have of me.

YOU have to do what YOU think is best, but that's what I hope I'd attempt to do, myself, which is what you asked. I don't envy you the decision. It's a bad place to be in, all the way around.


Abrazos,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:51 PM

I'm not convinced that endng the friendship is the answer as it could end up isolating the person and causing them to entrench themselves further.

I believe the answer would be to confront them with the support of mutual associates.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:59 PM

The only honourable response Cllr.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:54 PM

I stand alongside all of you here. It is a great pity that she has decided to stand as the BNP candidate in Chippenham. I have sent her a personal message saying I respect any views she may hold, as she is entitled to, but when we come face to face she is obliged, under the rules of the BNP, to out me and take me on publicly. I am, and as you all know, have been for a great many years, an active trade unionist and anti fascist campaigner and this has led to my name being on the Red Watch Hit List. This is a list published by BNP and other fascist organisations which give out names and addresses and photographs of known 'reds' and who all BNP members must do everything they can to discredit in any way possible. Some people on the list have had their houses daubed with paint and excrement put through their doors and all beacause we stand up for what we believe in. I am openly campaigning to have BNP barred from being teachers in line with the bar in many other of the public services. With their views on the holocaust etc how could they teach history? Teachers shape the future which is why they want to get in. If any of you are free on 30th May and are in the Stoke area, Love Music Hate Racism are holding a rock concert, check out their website.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:53 PM

I had a old friend who couldn't stand Barack Obama and sent me all of the e-mail rumors and stories ect. That's all well and good. I've got no problem with him disliking his policies. But when he sent me nude pictures that were supposed to have been of Barack Obamas mother I thought it was the last straw. Not even the Mafia goes after someones mother. And that's from the party of "family values"?? I asked him to remove me from his mailing list and I haven't heard from him since. I won't miss him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:03 PM

Fiddler,

How about posting those videos on his facebook page.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:52 PM

You did the right thing cllr- hats off to an honest Tory- as I said in another vthread, the racism, is a deliberate choice, there are several non- racist rightwing parties he could have chosen.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:48 PM

Sadly it is a catter, I made a comment on their facebook page which they deleted!

And it was very benign comment.

Cllr

There are lots of us with you.

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:19 PM

Then I would show him this video of Nick Griffin denying the holocaust.

"nonsense about gas chambers"

If he still persisted with his desire stand on a BNP ticket after that then I would organize all our mutual friends to disrupt every speech he made.

Some people choose the BNP because they thin they are honestly just an ordinary caring party who are awake to problems caused by immigration that other parties are irresponsibly ignoring.

They make this choice out of ignorance.

If they carry on afterwards and choose to be associated with views like griffins as shown clearly in the videos above, then they should be treated as advocates of those views, i.e, with utmost caution and utter refusal to agree on any level with any of their "milder" views.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:10 PM

I would show him this Video of Nick Griffen speaking to supporters of David Dukes (of KKK fame) about how to make racist policies seem more politically correct.

"... Instead of 'Racial Purity' say 'Identity' ..."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Michael
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:04 PM

And there's the risk of being tarred with the same brush.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:02 PM

Is it too late to save your friend from his own folly? Apart from their policies, behind the suits the BNP are a bunch of racist thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 20 May 09 - 12:24 PM

I think you've done the right thing, Mike. If someone has those sort of beliefs, then there can be little enough in common to justify continuing a friendship.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 May 09 - 12:13 PM

Standing with you Cllr... you know where we are.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,jeddy
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:53 AM

exactly the same as you have done. on some things there can be no compromise. i can undrestand that this situation has made you feel sad and probably betrayed. the bnp to me represent people equivelent to those who introduced apathied and need to be shuned in decent society. it is their problem and should not make you feel uncomfortable or guilty.
take care

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:49 AM

Sad to say Mike, however much I value friendship, I probably would do the same.

We may not always agree on our 'politics' over a glass or two of wine but I too have been active in opposing racism throughout my adult life and, like you, would feel deeply saddened and betrayed to find a friend associated with such a blatently racist organization never mind prepared to represent their repugnant views.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:46 AM

The same. I have tolerated friends with 'extreme' views, but this would be a step too far for me. I would also make sure you let them know clearly what you are doing and why.

Subject: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cllr
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:36 AM

A friend of mine has decided to stand for BNP in the local elections I feel shocked and betrayed and tried to persuade them not to do so when i found out back at the end of February. It is now public knowlege as it is published on the relevent website.

I have worked for the CPS on incitement to racial hatred cases back in the nineties and despite being accused of being a rascist by simply being a Conservative but I've striven to oppose biggotry when I have come across it.

I hope i am a loyal friend to those that are close to me but this is too much. I am deeply saddend but i feel i must end my friendship with this person. I suppose the question is what would you do if you found yourself in this position?

Mike aka Cllr

---

See previous thread (English Fair Fund is BNP Front ), which has been closed.
-Joe Offer-