BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:08 AM

I went to see Billy Bragg last night. As humane and reasonable as ever, he argued that the worst thing we all have to confront is cynicism. We should all believe that we can make a difference, and that each and every one of us has the right and duty to confront evil wherever we find it.
As I see it, the BNP's two seats were handed to them by the collective cynicism of the electorate. As a result, Yorkshire and Humberside are now represented by this man.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:56 AM

Interesting that the other candidates walked off the stage and would not be seen standing alongside when the BNP candidate made his acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:59 AM

No, the racists and lowlife of Yorkshire and Humberside are. Everyone else is represneted by 5 other Euro-mps

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 04:39 AM

It sure as hell doesn't worry me. As SPB-Cooperator has quite rightly said Yorkshire and Humberside have 5 other Euro MP's. And now this 'person' is there along with his 'Leader' all will be able to see how useless and hateful they really are. Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't in my mind. And I see that the COWARD GUEST-Daily Mail Reader has reared its head and celebrated the winning of 2 seats out of 64 stating 'Democracy is alive and well.' Couldn't agree with you more GUEST-Daily Mail Reader, democracy will keep the BNP where it belongs, a minority!
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 04:40 AM

I'm beginning to wonder how the dear old Daily Mail would like to be associated with the particular reader here. Of course, they are unlikely to find out.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:08 AM

The same 'dear old Daily Mail' that backed Mosley and the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s, and which, in 1934, ran an editorial headed 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts'?
It's always been a reactionary paper which plays on the fears of 'Middle England'. Alongside the cruder, less-polished Daily Express, it carries a heavy responsibility for driving people into the arms of the BNP, even if its policy today is ostensibly anti-BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:19 AM

Hear hear Gervase. I was always amused when one could refer to the "Beaverbrook" newspapers.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:28 AM

Amid the doom and gloom, don't lose sight of the fact that the BNP didn't increase their polling numbers over 2004. The reason why they won is that the overall numbers of votes went down. Given the amount of despondency which the expenses scandal and the recession have generated it is actually very encouraging that more people didn't run flying into their arms. In any event, this might be just what we need to galvanise people into stopping them from getting any further.

" http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/Andrew-Brons.php " It's welcome news to hear that Colin Jordan is dead at last. I hadn't realised. he was quite a force in the ultra-right up to the early '70s. Then he was caught stealing three pairs of women's knickers (coloured red, funny enough)from a Tesco store, and faded into utter discreditation. He said in his defence that it was a frame up by a Jewish owned company.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:52 AM

To answer Cllr's question right at the beginning of this thread...

Billy Connolly said something like: "politics is very simple - if you wouldn't talk to them in a bar, don't f*%$ing vote for them!"

I think that the opposite is also true.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:54 AM

Whoops - I meant to write "the opposite is also true in this particular case!"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:44 AM

"As a result, Yorkshire and Humberside are now represented by this man. "

He certainly doesn't represent me, nor does the UKIP buffoon, Godfrey Bloom, even though he lives in the same village as I do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Lock and Key
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 11:40 PM

My apologies: that post about Bron was found on a blog somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:41 AM

Maybe we shouldn't refer them as "the BNP" any more than we generally refer to their role model as "the NSDP" - the same abbreviation used then should be used now. Call them "the Nazis".

But we shouldn't overestimate them - remember, the Nazis got a lot fewer votes in this election than the Greens did.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:38 AM

"Just saw this on the United Against Fascism website.

"British National Party (BNP) gain its first two seats in the European parliament. BNP candidate Andrew Brons, a former stalwart of the National Front...."

Just about says it all doesn't it?"

"We already know they're Nazis."

"Andrew Brons, 61, started his nazi career in the National Socialist Movement"

WE already know...*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM

I was using the term Nazi for the BNP trash three years ago on Mudcat. Few believed me or cared at the time. Yet this site gives them credibility by allowing them space and posts here. Go figure. There was ONE thread. Now there are three.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:44 PM

It's great to see people responding the way they do--using their names, some even their names from real life. Takes guts. In the vernacular, "Good on ya."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:50 PM

And btw, FUCK the British Nazi Party (aka the BNP).

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:54 PM

As another btw, three years back I traced one of the posters on a thread to another site: the site's name was (is) Stormfront. Mudcat has known for years what the nature of the BNP is. Well, I suppose the KKK will be posting soon--and maybe Aryan Nations. It's a vibrant democracy.



Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fairplay
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 07:51 AM

The BNP got almost a million votes in the Euro election (943,598 to be exact). In comparison, NuLabour got only 2,381,760 and was beaten into third place by Ukip with 2,498,226 votes. Ukip also wants a total halt to immigration and is regarded by some her as 'the BNP in blazers'.

Those determined to politicize the English folk scene are just accelerating the polarisation of British society, and this risks creating the very thing they fear.

As an historian with a special interest in the Spanish Civil War, I am mindful of the political climate which led to that cruel and bloody episode. A left-wing government with a powerfully-entrenched opposition turned a blind eye to the extra-parliamentary antics of its extremist supporters. The murder of the Conservative politician, Calvo Sotelo, by Leftist police (the ultimate realisation of the 'No Platform' policy) finally accelerated the path to war.

Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 07:56 AM

Oh Fairplay. You're back again!!! What a surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 08:24 AM

"one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition"

Ha, ha, ha, ha! You're not much of a historian, fairplay (fair play, my arse!). Think back to Moseley where the majority stood up against the fascists. That's what's happening again with the current batch of fascists. Enjoy your flash in the pan - a flash is all it will be.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 08:56 AM

Three posts from "fairplay" within minutes, all supporting the BNP, and she's never posted here before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

"Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition."

sounds like wishful thinking to me...oh and complete BS, and please STOP cloaking yourself in the flag of St. George and pretending you're a patriot and everyone who opposes BNP and UKIP policies is not. Speaking of history wasn't it Dr. Samuel Johnson who said that the last refuge of a scoundrel in patriocy? Speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:54 PM

Fairplay, you may be confusing "not being given the right of free speech" with people simply not wanting to listen - have you considered that?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

"Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition."


1. there is no evidence that the BNP do not have freedom of speech.

For example - on this site - there are NO restrictions.

BNP supporters on this site simply have nothing of any value to say.


2. There has been no "widespread" increase in "sympathy".

There was a reduction in the overall number of people voting so the BNP's share increased proportionately.

At the next election, partly as a result of many good people on this site, there will be a bigger turnout of voters overall.

When that happens, the BNP will be kicked into touch and will have to return to frothing at the mouth about their hatred of foreigners in their party "bookshops" again.

In the meantime, the BNP can expect to be ignored by their MEP peers. They don't have enough seats to make a difference.

And we the wider electorate will make sure that you lose those seats.

Back to your sewer filth!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:32 PM

None has been denied free speech on this thread as long as they have met the forum's posting policies.   But free speech cuts both ways, and exercise my free speech to identify behaviour by BNP members that is socially unacceptable, and question whether when BNP members are exercising their right to free speech if they are telling the truth and whole truth.

People posting on behalf of the BNP have had countless opportunities to respond to the questions put to them and provide the evidence to back up thier assertions - but they choose not to, and because of this a very large number of us question their hidden motives.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM

Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

When the issue of the BNP successes was debated on Question Time, immigration was the elephant in the room.
The only panallist who tried to raise the issue was an economist.
The three politicians and the trade unionist just changed the subject and carried on talking about electoral reform, vile fascists etc.

The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:22 PM

How many immagrants were responsible for the shortage of social housing brought about by the sale of council homes and government legistation to ban the building of new social housing stock? Was Thatcher black or asian? Did I miss something there?

What state would the health services be in now if it were NOT for migrant nurses and doctors?

How would infrastructure services quote if migrant workers were not doing the jobs that white people see beneath them to do?

Moving away from the high density, hard to let high rise estates, where migrants are housed by local authorities, what is the proportion of black/asian schoolchildren - for example in Richmond? Beaconsfield?

Blaming all 'social ills' on immigration IS racist and devisive.

Try looking at the impact of greed and distribution of wealth...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:28 PM

Mike, if a friend of yours is engaged in activities that are injurious to society, you are
risking being victimized by these activities. For your own protection you must dissolve
the relationship immediately but it's ok for you to tell your ex-friend why you must do it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

Fairplay: 'As a historian with a special interest in the Spanish Civil War' you will realise that the Fascist forces banded together to eject a democratically elected Government. Cruel and bloody, yes, but to suggest that it was the democratically elected Government that started it is just wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

we are not talking about controlled immigration.
I was not speaking for just white workers.
Second and third generation immigrants are also in the line for housing, jobs, medical care and schooling.
I know that there are other contributing factors.
Denying that current immigration levels are hurting some groups in the population is exactly the attitude that drives them into the clutches of BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM

"The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue."

Personally I'm not prepared to wait that long, things have to be done and done now. For those who are prepared to sit and wait...have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM

Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?

Are they people who have lived here all their lives and whose parents lived here all of their lives too?

Just wha makes them "immigrants"?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

"Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?"

That'll be me then. Irish on my Mothers side.

I'm guessing in fact, that very many of us are 'second and third generation immigrants'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:15 PM

All of Keith A of Hertford's posts reek of BNP propaganda carefully couched in acceptable terms (read polite);or is it just me?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:25 PM

i wonder just how many of us are however many generation immigrants?


from romans, saxons, danes, i am sure there are more but my brain does not work that well. in that case hailing from east anglia as i do, i probably am not completely english either, maybe i should be sent back to where ever i originated, good luck finding that out, i would be split into quite a few pieces.

jade x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:27 PM

Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep? I'll be it wasn't "Can I see your passport please"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM

Joe, please note Keith A's post above.

Below is a quote from the purloined "HOff Bridge" identity on the FAF facebook site: -

"Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership care for us, they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

The BNP care about the British people."



I think that maybe Keith has some explaining to do, hasn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:31 PM

They said, "Buenos dias. ¿Cómo estás?"

Like, what it is, hombre? Nice horns you have there.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:42 PM

"Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep?"

                They probably figured they were there to plunder the country side, pillage the villages, loot the towns, and rape the women, just like the immigrants now.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:40 PM

To talk about the 'burning issue of immigration' being ignored presupposes that the British public are as preoccupied with the issue as you are.

For you it is a big issue.

For the BNP it is definitely a big issue.

It isn't for me.

Or for the majority of voters.


As for blaming weaknesses in the overall economy on immigration in the first place, its like blaming cancer on water.

Although it just so happens that evn this gives an inaccurate picture as a comparison of unemlyment figures and iimigration figures shows clearly that the unemployment has been at its lowest and least unstable when immigration has been at its highest.


This however is merely an amusing observation. and does not demonstrate any significant relationship.

We know this because there is no evidence that immigration and the economy and employment levels are connected in any definable way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:51 PM

I too am intrigued by the similarities between this post:

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM


And the one quoted by Richard Bridge.


Keith?

Any explanations?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:28 PM

i have always thought that when the economy is stable it was usaully due to migrant workers who do the jobs that no one else wants. we wouldn't have a railway system if it weren't for THE BLOODY FORIGNERS.

nor would we have alot of things i would have thought, if anyone can tell me i would be grateful.

it is not the (for example) polish workers fault that the bosses pay them less, it is not their fualt that the housing market dried up and it is not their fault that rest of the economy went belly up either, they have been made scapegoats for the bankers and bosses who think that they don't have to keep up standards and fair pay.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:12 AM

My post was my post.
This is the only site apart from BBC that I visit.
Second generation immigrants is an accepted and neutral term.
It describes a section of the population of British people whose parents or grandparents were born elsewhere.
They tend to share the same problems as affect white working class people (we do have to label groups to discuss sociological issues)and are themselves often adversely affected by high levels of immigration.

I think that immigration is a legitimate area of concern. I welcome having my points disputed but please do not try to smear my name.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:16 AM

How about replacing 'second and third generation immigrants' with 'second and third generation residents'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:17 AM

That quoted post is undeniably mine but this is the only site that I have posted it on.
It can only be a copy.
Nasty devious things are going on here.
BNP are nasty devious people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:31 AM

Keith

Why is your post here the same as that of "Hoff Bridge" - an identityjack of my name by someone else - on the Facebook Folk against Fascism site?

Three possibilities: you copied him, he copied you, or you both copied directly or indirectly from the same other source.

Did you copy your post from a different source, and if so where?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:36 AM

Richard, I typed the post as a stream of consciousness.
I did not have notes or any other material.
I have posted in the same vein before and I wwill try to find it.
My post has been copied by someone else.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:02 AM

Curious that the same words crop up again here: -

http://digg.com/world_news/BNP_Nick_Griffin_Proven_Right_on_Home_Grown_Jihadists



All at very much the same time as your post above and the same words on facebook.