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BS: BNP: What would you do?
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Gervase Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:15 PM ...and that was 700 by the way. And given what the BNP represents, 700 posts is not too many. Six million might be a better number. Americans may feel happy to have the KKK spout their stuff because of a belief in free speech, but they don't have to live with the fact that fascists have now been elected in the UK and will get given the best part of three quarters of a million dollars of tax-payers' money to promote their twisted ideology. The sort of ideology that suggests we sink boat-loads of migrants to stop them reaching our shores, that suggests that Jews are behind a conspiracy to do down the white race, that...well, need I go on? I know the wish is to keep this place a touchy-feely, politics free zone, where the real world doesn't intrude, but in the UK the fascist right is making a deliberate effort to appropriate traditional music and dance to further its own filthy ends. I don't want that to happen. If that means shouting out a few home truths, so be it. And if this post is pulled as well, then what remains of any respect I had for the people who set up the Mudcat as an inclusive place to celebrate folk and blues will finally have evaporated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: GUEST,ifor Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:01 AM If there is any doubt as to the fascist ,racist and violent nature of the BNP go to google images and type in "John Tyndall". Tyndall was the first leader of the BNP and Griffin's immediate predeccessor. Tyndall,an open Hitler lover all his life and a proud nazi, can be seen on google images posing in his nazi uniform in front of a large swastika and underneath a framed photograph of his hero,Hitler.It is quite sickening.The man was steeped in hatred and violence and had a string of serious criminal convictions. His successor Griffin, is also a convicted race hater and has been involved in racist and fascist politics since his teenage years. He is an anti semite and a denier of the holocaust.His alsation dogs were /are called Anne and Frank.He can also be seen on google images in a white power T shirt leading a National Front march. He is a former leader of the violent National Front. But the fascism is not just confined to the top leadership.The core of the BNP is nazi through and through and many of its lower ranking and regional leaders have serious criminal records for race hate and violence.Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England. The BNP should always be identified for what it is ..a violent,fascist and racist organisation with neo nazis in its core leadership . On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire. ifor |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: greensue Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:28 AM Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Fred McCormick Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM "Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England." Does anyone have any further details on this? I heard on the BBC PM programme that Shepherd and A N Other had been jailed for running a race hate website, but didn't catch any more. Is this the infamous Redwatch? If so they should also have been charged with incitement to violence. "On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire." Does anyone know the location of BNP festival? The anti-demo starts assembling in Codnor market square at 9am, with coaches arriving around 11am. Unfortunately, I am going to have to make my own way there and it's possible I may not arrive until after the parade has headed off. Just for once I don't fancy driving all over the Derbyshire countryside trying to catch up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Paul Burke Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM I think she tagged herself by standing as a candidtae. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Fred McCormick Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:30 AM Sorry folks. I didn't see the thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=122186&messages=10 about Shepheard and whittle being jailed. Also, there's a Guardian article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/10/first-racial-hatred-online-conviction . It doesn't sound like this pair are rsponsible for Redwatch. However, an important precedent has been established. Namely that you can't upload race hate material to a server in another country and expect immunity from prosecution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:15 AM Yeah, Joe. I forgot that only the BNP can post under multiple identities.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Emma B Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:32 AM Can I make a plea to consider the words of Miguel de Unamuno y Jugo Spanish essayist, novelist, poet, playwright and philosopher "That which the Fascists hate above all else, is intelligence." and fight the BNP with reasoned argument and refuting their lies NOT simply with name calling and expletives "When I read good people with good intentions using neo-Nazi language to argue against neo-Nazis I feel they have not understood that the fight against fascism is also a fight against dehumanising language." thank you Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:36 AM There is always a price to be paid when people stand up against Fascism. There's a greater price to be paid if people don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Gervase Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:53 AM Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag? I've known George for maybe eight or nine years or so as a Middle Bar Singer, but had no idea that she was standing as a candidate for the BNP until Mike (Cllr) told me. As a Middle Bar Singer I don't feel happy with George calling herself "MBS George", and feel it would be more appropriate for her to call herself "BNP George"; the name of the party for whom she stood for election in the Cepen Ward of Chippenham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:11 AM Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag? I do not need to know anything more about BNP George than that which she has freely imparted by standing in support of the British National Party, its aims, objectives and leadership. She is a fascist. She is a member of a nazi-styled political party. As a BNP candidate for public office, she hob-nobs and glad-hands with the leadership; a leadership which includes holocaust-denying, hitler-admiring, attempted child-murdering terrorist & racist scum who are plotting - daily - to spark a violent race-war in MY COUNTRY. I have all the references and proofs for those accusations - they are just a few of the criminal convictions held by Griffin and his inner circle and include views and objectives stated by Griffin himself in public. I don't need to know anything more about this "George" person. If she dislikes the reality of her unpleasant life then only she can change it; leave and renounce the BNP and try to return to mainstream, decent society. If she really does not understand what she has got herself into then she is profoundly and dangerously stupid and I continue to regard her with contempt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:12 AM Bravo, Royston. Very well-said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM [PDF] The British National Party A briefing that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:39 AM As peace suggested, or just click HERE It is a little out of date, missing a lot of the more recent catalogue of shame and new-found South-African terrorist links. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:43 AM Thank you, Royston. I could never make 'blue clickies' from PDF files. And likely this would be a good time to apologize to you for my ill-considered remarks to you a few days back. I do apologize sincerely. I hope you'll accept it. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:59 AM You see, you just cannot tolerate and humour or sympathise or empathise with people who swallow this fascist line. They must be repudiated and isolated. Mainstream politics needs to remove the tenuous grounds on which the BNP siren-calls are based. "Taking our schools" - Build more schools "Taking our houses" - proven to unntrue, but just build more. "Hospitals" - Build more "Jobs" - The recent fascist attacks against Romanians in Belfast involved a group of Romanian workers invited here by local employers who could not find local "Whites" willing to take menial, minimum-wage jobs. This is not unusual. There is a genuine problem in this country with White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants. You see them every time there is a BNP rally or "undercover" documentary. Let's be realistic here. BNP supporters drone on about witholding benefits from immgirants - a group who don't qualify for any assistance until they have resided here for two years. Let's talk about withdrawing benefits from ANYONE that refuses to take paid work and let's take a good look at some people's incapacity benefit claims. I don't think some of the BNP grass-roots would appreciate that policy. If BNP George were in 1945 Germany, she would be one of the German citizens who were dragged, protesting, to the gas-chambers and burial pits at Belsen-Bergen concentration camp to witness the dead and the still barely living. German citizens who thought themselves "terribly nice" and were happy that Hitler got the railways to run on time and cleared out the inner cities for "decent folk like them". One of the reasons I am particularly strong on holocaust-deniers is that my uncle Edward (whom I came to know very well before he died) was among the troops that liberated Belsen. He was a driver and was involved in rounding up the great and good and decent folkd and brought them in to see the truth of their collective denial and stupidity. Never forget, never surrender, never compromise! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:05 AM Won't it be great when schools can buy whatever they need and armies have to hold bake sales to buy weapons? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:14 AM Not a problem, Bruce. Gawd knows I 'ave me moments meself! And I rightly had to check myself on aspects of that earlier debate. You see we are all influenced and we all acquire 'beliefs' from a highly treacherous and worrying media-machine in this country and further afield. We all need to check our assumptions about the world around us and ask ourselves if we really know what we believe we know, or if we have received somebody else's so-called wisdom. Don't know if that makes sense, that's what I was trying to get across in the other thread - the causal (not a typo!) link between news, media and racism (the former two producing subconscious, unwitting and unintended if not overt racist reactions) |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: meself Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM "White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants" So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: GUEST, Richard Bridge elsewhere Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM By and large I believe in the welfare state, but I do know some people who abuse it. I call very much to mind a chap, Marcus, locally to me who was a claimant and ducker and diver (and drinker, and how). One day in conversation in the pub that now is no longer there I came to realise that he was in fact rather intelligent. A little while later I started suggesting ways he could get jobs and get himself off the dole. His response: "Why would I want to do that?". Curiously, I gather that he later did do exactly that and is no longer drinking destructively, at least not all the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM Gervase, when it becomes a personal vendetta against an individual, I think a line should be drawn. Yes, a person who runs for political office is a public figure and loses some right to privacy because of that. However, if that person is a member of our community, then I think he/she deserves some privacy and protection within the community. You can address a political debate quite completely without personalizing it. If the person concerned says or does something that warrants discussion, then discussion may be appropriate. The fact that the person ran as a BNP candidate is certainly worthy of reasonable discussion, but we long ago reached a point where we had beaten the topic into the ground. Then it's time to come up with more information to discuss, or to shut up. Your approach, however, bordered on stalking. BNP candidate or not, the person is a human being. And Royston, since you state that you know nothing about MBSGeorge, then I suggest you should talk about what you do know. When you find something out that's factual, then come back and tell us. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay? There is nothing wrong with peasants or peasantry. There is something wrong with lazy, feckless people...of any class. Racists, like the BNP, see and describe a world where ALL people of a certain group display the same characteristics (normally negative stereotypes). THEY would have you believe ALL immigrants are begging scrounging or stealing (property or jobs). I am, with some irony, throwing a spotlight back on BNP supporters or at least their natural constituents. The BNP target poor, resentful and bitter white folk. I don't think it is nice or pleasant but it is a reality. Let's look at leading BNP politicians like errrm... RICHARD MULHALL - BNP councillor and leader of the BNP group on Calderdale council convicted of benefit fraud in October 2006. The party supported and ket him in post and still think he's a jolly good sort of WHITE benefit criminal. So that's OK then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:48 PM A person cannot change their ancestors nor the colour of their skin. A person is entitled to freedom of religion and thought and sexuality(let's not get silly about this aspect, OK?). People can change the level of their education, their speech habits, their written abilities, their manners, their diligence, etc. In short there is nothing to stop people seeking to improve themselves. Some, however, would prefer to hang around on street corners, spit, fight, steal, and seek to mock those of better speech and behaviour. Since that is a matter of choice by those idiots, ridicule of them is not unjustified. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: greensue Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:52 PM Did you know that mbs george only joined the bnp because they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing. And yes I believe invading mbs Georges facebook page without beig asked to join is stalking. I have seen some of the stupid questins asked by Gervase and it is no wonder she did not reply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM Greensue, That is exactly like saying "Hitler wasn't so bad, he got the trains to run on time". I have no idea what you are saying. What "good" BNP policy are you referring to? Please translate to English the phrase they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing. What, they have a policy AGAINST low paid Britons? How are they going to make all Britons highly paid? Or are you saying that they have found a way of removing Britons' need for housing? How? Free tents? Caravans? Are they, more likely, planning to round up the homeless and send them to gas chambers, thereby reducing demand/need for housing. And before the rest of you start, YES I AM! And no, I will not apologise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM greensue, "Gervaise Webb, sorry if i've misspelt your name, icant seem to flick backwards and forwards on these pages yet. I do believe George will be around in August, please sit down with her and ask the questions personally. I for one would be interested. I have very little politics myself, but I do realise that the BNP is a hated organisation ( yes I do understand why)even though their modern political statements seem a lot gentler than the old ones. I wouldn't think of the right questions to ask. I spend a lot of time in a wheelchair and so far she has not tried to push me off the pier." It's good that George has a friend like you. However, as for 'stalking'--the BNP does that shit. You OK with that, sue? You OK with the fact that George stood for election? You OK with the policies of the BNP? "The British National Party are not just racist- they are every 'ist' under the sun. Unfortunately, they've recently been given the opportunity to share their unbelievably terrible views with the European Parliament. A couple of DisAbled people, who wish to be known only as Harry Thomas and Cerebral Person, were horrified, terrified and disgusted when they discovered that, in response to the death of Ivan Cameron, son of David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party, senior BNP member Jeffery Marshall claimed in an internet forum discussion: "We live in a country today which is unhealthily dominated by an excess of sentimentality towards the weak and unproductive. No good will come of it." Later, in response to comments made by others on the site, Marshall is alleged to have written: "There is not a great deal of point in keeping these people alive after all." He said that the comments were taken out of context. However, we choose not to believe him. We feel we have good reasons to be against the BNP. So, we have set up a brand new blog called DisAbled People Against The BNP. This blog was born out of frustration. We hope to use it to prove to a certain politician that we are not at all unproductive! We have big plans for this blog, so watch this space! Whether you are DisAbled, like both of us, or you simply agree that attitudes like Jeffery Marshall's are unacceptable, we welcome your support and are both very grateful for it. Cerebral Person can be reached on cerebralperson@hotmail.co.uk" Think about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:39 PM Yes, I am what? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Gervase Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:17 PM Joe: Me stalking George? Her BNP candidature came out of the blue to me, and having met the woman and sung with her, I wanted to know why. I've asked that question a few times in the open forum, but received no answer. Someone suggested I send her a PM, which I did. No answer. I sent her an email via Facebook. No answer. I'm sorry, but if someone puts themselves up for election for public office and gets taxpayers' money to help fund that campaign, it isn't stalking to want to know their reasons. Joe, with the greatest respect, I'd suggest that you're out of your comfort zone here. It's up to you if you want to do the three wise monkeys trick and simply pull the thread, thus pretending that all's right with the world and that there's still apple pie for tea, but I am not prepared to sit on my hands and be polite while my tradition is hijacked by fascists and people I like and respect are made to feel threatened by the scum from the BNP. Greensue: You appear to know a lot about George's thoughts and motivations. I have seen some of the stupid questins asked by Gervase and it is no wonder she did not reply. How? Were you privy to the one private message I sent, or to the single email I sent via Facebook? If that counts as 'invading' BNP George's Facebook page, then I plead guilty. Perhaps, with your gift of telepathy, you could answer some of my 'stupid questins' on her behalf. And, while you're about it, which ones would you say were 'stupid'? Number 3? Maybe Number 9? Or was it Number 13? Did you know that mbs george only joined the bnp because they were the only party to issue a policy against low paid brittons (of any colour) needing housing. If either your or BNP George actually believe that then your naivete is breathtaking. The truth is out there - just Google it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM Gervase, do you know what Greensue means by that astounding agglomeration of words (and the occasional collision of letters that is not, properly, a word)? It baffles me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jul 09 - 07:38 PM I posted a brilliant message, and it disappeared. Damn. Anyhow, as I was saying, I will agree completely that the BNP is insidious and deceptive. Their Website (click) shows that they are masters of deception. It's my opinion that most BNP supporters have been duped. If they understood what the BNP is really about, they'd look for an alternative. But you're not going to win BNP supporters over, if you insist on using Storm Trooper tactics to oppose them. The way to defeat the BNP, is to strip the party naked of any semblance of respectability, so you can expose the thugs at the center of the party for what they are. I've corresponded with MBSGeorge several times, and she seems like a very nice person. If you can answer her concerns and give her a rational alternative, I think you'll find she won't be a BNP member for very long. But you'll solidify her support of the BNP if you continue to use threats and lies and browbeating and the whole array of tactics of the very Nazi Stormtroopers you profess to oppose. London is the most ethnically diverse city I've ever seen - but most of the inland population 50 miles north of London is lily-white, and they're scared of all the immigrants who have moved to their country. The same is true for the Midwest U.S. north of Detroit and Milwaukee and Minneapolis and Denver, and for California north of Sacramento (like ther right-wing area where I live). These people are scared, and they're arming themselves and joining right-wing organizations that are pretty scary themselves. But you won't win them over by scaring them more. Somehow, you have to answer their fears and prove that the immigrants aren't so frightening. It's a hard job, and one that won't be accomplished by scare tactics. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 11 Jul 09 - 07:56 PM Yes, I am what? On this occasion, contemptuous and condescending. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 08:07 PM "Oh dear Bruce, so you have been posting under a false identity ! Well spotted Joe. I think the sooner you close this thread the better, it has ran too long." Dear Guest,russ meyers. You may be a big shot in Armitage, Rugeley, Staffordshire, but you're just another guttersnipe as far as I'm concerned. Nice country in that area, though. Fuck with me again and you'll wish your mother had never given birth to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:04 PM This thread is righteous. Let it run. Ah, yes, Roston, I think I knew that, but on this occasion we appreciate it. Joe - try Gravesend (maybe 30 miles south east of London, depending on where you measure from) and the Medway Towns (just a bit further down the A2): best damn places to get a curry or Thai meal for hundreds of miles, bhangra/rock fusion bands, past or present Sikh mayors, an Asian bloke called "Jungle" (after his preferred music) used to turn up to watch my daughter's heavy rock band, etc, etc. Peace: chill. We live with these people (if that is the right word) daily. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:12 PM OK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:40 PM I think Russ Meyer was trying to voice support for you, Bruce. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:50 PM Thanks, Joe. Richard asked me to cool it, so I will. If I owe Russ an apology he'll get one. However, I do not think that's the case. Anyway, I'll stay off this thread for a bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: jeddy Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:50 PM having spoken to george, i think there are some things going on in her private life which she would rather not share as is her right. i agree that she may not be a BNP member for long, let us hope that she can sort out her problems and then be strong enough to admit the huge mistake she has made. we all know what the BNP and their diehard supporters are like and the lengths they will go to to get a new recruite. to my mind there are two types of BNP supporters, theones who are in the know ..and the ones who are lied to and bullied into submission.. ok three .. the ones who are too lazy to do their homework and voted for them. two of those types can be brought around with patience and kindness, the other one?...you will never be able to reason with and it is those ones i don't have a clue how to tackle. we cannot resort to their level and use violence, the law is having problems shutting them up, so what is left? i will admit to having a somewhat quick tongue in person, so i thnk i would be a hipocrite when it comes tpo putting this into practise face to face. over the net it is easier for me to control my temper and think before i type. i am yet to make sense of some of thesae posts so will come back for a second read in the morning, when my brain sort of works. take care all jade x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: greensue Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:24 AM Oh gosh, there are days when i can't spell. I don't think I'm the only one. Like it really matters. There are days when I don't quite make sense, so I'm a person. Join the club. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:26 AM it is precisely because the latter of the two types can eventually be brought round by reasoned argument that we do not have to resort to the methods of the diehard BNP supporters methods. The more they begin to realise that they lack the ability for debate and discussion that they will resort more to violence... the fist, yhe viloence, the nail bomb, and that will diminish them more than any argument as their true colour would rise to the surface again, and they will only get votes from their nazi/fascist/skinhead lackies. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:02 AM I think Joe Offer and Jeddy make good points. I know the kinds of people that the BNP are targeting with their campaign, white, working class, fucked off with New Labour. And they're not all slobs, lots of them are hardworking and never been out of a job before... and they feel betrayed ('someone must be to blame'). Some of them are natural born jerks, most of them are not highly intellectual, but most are generally OK people who just believe what they read in the papers, and most of them don't think to enquire further about what they are told. A combination of Capitalist greed gone tits up and The Daily Mail (et al), has created a perfect ferment of distrust and anger needed for groups like the BNP to gain mass support. I'd rather understand George's motivations than condemn her. I think we could be on a very slippery slope if more people are not simply *encouraged* to look a bit more closely at what they've been spoon-fed by the papers, and at what truly lies beneath the surface veneer of the BNP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:06 AM Piss off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:11 AM Why do you not take issue with the scum called the BNP? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Peace Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:32 AM "Bruce, why call yourself "peace" when you describe other members as XXXX ? Peace means peace. You are bad tempered and use words that Joe should not allow on the cat." And you'd be the best judge of that right? Have you spoken against the BNP? Even under your member name? You think bad words are a problem? How about the BNP platform of ethnic cleansing? Their policies of racism? But you are very much like them. They too post under 'guest' identities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: GUEST,lox Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:35 AM "It's my opinion that most BNP supporters have been duped. If they understood what the BNP is really about, they'd look for an alternative." Maybe - but someone has to do the duping ... so who's duping and who's duped? ... absolutely no idea ... But one thing they have in common is that they all, in equal measure, give life to the same hideous beast. On the point of Who is and who isn't a fascist ... I I call someone an idiot or scum or somethig like that then tha is of course abuse. If I say Joe is a fascist because I disagree with some aspect of the way he helps out here, that is also an insult and would be very unfair. However, that line of thought does not apply to MBS George. This line does: What do you call someone who stands for the republican party? - A republican. What do you call someone who stands for the democratic party? - a democrat ... ... see where I'm going with this? .. A conservative supporter, let alone candidate, is a tory, a liberal is a whig ... a BNP candidate is a Neo-Nazi - because they are a candidate for the Neo-Nazi party. MBS George is a BNP supporter and representative. MBS George is a Neo-Nazi. If there is anything insulting about this post could somebody please highlight what and explain why. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: GUEST,lox Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:54 AM I hope by the way that MBS George does decide to announce that she has left the BNP. I would love to hear from an ex BNP member what it was that they think made them turn towards such a treacherous ally. I think that an ex BNP member with insight and a clear voice could work very usefully to change the minds of the undecided in a positive way. I hope MBS George is the type of BNP member who has been duped and not the type that agrees that immigrants to europe should have their boats sunk in the middle of the meditteranean and be left to drown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:26 AM Joe, And Royston, since you state that you know nothing about MBSGeorge It's hard work reading everything on a web-forum (I manage one elsewhere in the ether) but I did not state that at all. She has told us an awful lot about her socio-political views by becoming a prominent member of a political party. I stated my opinion that I, personally, don't need to know anything more about her in the context of a debate about her politics. You may argue that I am wrong to hold that opinion, I respect your view, but my opinion is not based on "knowing nothing". you'll solidify her support of the BNP if you continue to use threats and lies I would be concerned if there were lies, or that you thought there were lies, told here about the BNP. Please can you point out the examples - I will either bring back the proof or offer clarification to anyone that may have made such a mistake. I am unconcerned about the sensibilities of members of the BNP. As an activist, there isn't time for it. We are shouting the truth, with irrefutable supporting evidence, about the BNP from the rooftops in order to repudiate their recruiting calls. The truth will deter reasonable or "intelligent, misguided" people from joining and will encourage some to hand back their membership cards. Crow Sister says she has met some "misguided" BNP converts, well I haven't. And I've spoken to more BNP sympathisers (members of the public not even party-members) on protests and rallies than I care to remember. Even if you calmly tell the truth about the BNP and hand out evidence packs, you know what they tell you? "We don't care, so what if a few (insert any racist insult) get sent back home!" The harsh reality is that there are a sizeable constituency of people who are stupid and amoral enough to turn a blind eye. Like in Nazi Germany. Then there are racists who just don't care what happens to someone else and then there are the active supporters of the BNP who revel in their nastiness. You can't reach these groups. The MBSGeorge types (assuming her to fall into this category) of middle class rural types that somehow fell or drifted into the BNP orbit, are not really the problem, they are not important. They will either get the message or the won't. That's why I have repeatedly condemned her politics and political choices and offered the opinion that "She ain't worth it", let her get on with it. Keep fighting fascism, George will either return to society or she won't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Emma B Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:43 AM I wish I'd spoken out before as I feel nothing but respect for people like jeddy and greensue who HAVE been prepared to speak against the use of violent language and abuse etc directed towards one individual that ape the actions of many BNP thugs themselves. I also support the sentiments expressed by Crow sister earlier today whole heartedly If anyone thinks I'm an apologist for the BNP let them read my posts over the last few years and talk to me about my earlier experiences opposing the National Front Remember the case of Mrs Tovey-Jones, who stood as a BNP candidate in the Nunnery division in Worcester Corinne Tovey-Jones wanted to withdraw after 'discovering' the BNP were a racist and anti-democratic descendant of the National Front, but was told by Worcester City Council that it was too late to remove her candidature. Mrs Tovey-Jones complained to the Worcester News that the BNP had doctored her candidature statement to include comments about the "anti-social behaviour" of (ethnic) minorities - a comment Tovey Jones insists that she does not agree with and would not have said. She joined the racist far right party shortly after her husband was laid off. She was told by her neighbour, a BNP activist, that "you can't get a job at the moment, they just go to Polish people". This is typical of the BNP and their ilk - they are opportunstic and will exploit the ignorance, anger, and frustration of working people to sow their seeds of division and hate. Mrs Tovey Jones, whose brother in law is Italian, tried to pull out of the local elections because she "doesn't want people thinking I'm racist", but as it was too late to withdraw asked Worcester people NOT to vote for her. It may be unusual for an individual to stand as a candidate for the fascists without fully realising how deep the bigotry runs, but it is far from unusual for working people, unaware of the true colours of Griffin's Gang, and in anger at the mainstream political class, to give their votes to the BNP at the polls as could be seen from the results of the EU elections |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Royston Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:07 AM Emma B You are absolutely 100% right. However, people like Mrs. Tovey-Jones are only learning the truth because of the efforts of people like me and my colleagues. You can't have damascene conversions unless the truth is getting out there in an effective and impacting way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: Emma B Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:19 AM Royston, it has been reported that Corinne Tovey-Jones withdrew after negative comments from friends. If you and your colleagues are prepared to befriend George and discuss the racist origins, core policy and belief of the current BNP with her person to person then you too have my respect but, hollering abuse and expletives at her from a safe distance I suspect is only going to throw someone back into the 'fellowship' of those they feel safer with |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do? From: TheSnail Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:33 AM Emma, please have a look at cllr's original post. Joe Offer London is the most ethnically diverse city I've ever seen - but most of the inland population 50 miles north of London is lily-white, and they're scared of all the immigrants who have moved to their country. Luton is 32 miles north of London. I respect your point of view, but please try and find out what you are talking about before condemning whole areas of the UK as racists. |