BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:49 PM

MP's have stole our money recently, other MP's committed sex crimes and lied. Some served prison terms.

Just like senior BNP figures, in fact.
Some have convictions for kiddy-fiddling, others for violence and others for fraud. Heard about the two activists trying to smuggle under-age schoolgirls into the conference hotel, only to have the poor girls run screaming from their rooms? It makes disturbing reading
Or, Scopes, are you saying you support them because they're truly representative of the people who vote for them? ;-)

the chap on our local council has done so much for the people of the area

I think you should name him, because it's clear that the majority of BNP councillors have done fuck all since being elected. Let him bask in a little glory!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:05 PM

As a Person of Color, I'm heartened to see so many Mudcatters indicating their disgust of the BNP and putting that disgust into action by publicly advocating against that group.

I'm also sad to think that there are members of this forum who would not respect me just because my ancestry includes some persons who were not White.

I can understand how a person could have been friends with people with whom they disagree politically. However, I agree with most of the member posters on this thread that there are some issues of disagreement which should mean the end of a friendship. When this happens to friends and family it can be very difficult and very sad.

For the record, I agree with Lox's approach for the person to call out his or her "friend" on the issues. But at some point it seems to me that there's no sense wasting one's energy trying to talk sense to people who believe in the things that BNP and other similar groups believe in.

And it will come as no surprise to folks here, that I'm much closer aligned to Bruce's no holds bar attitude toward the BNP than Joe's position that "these discussions are a chance for us to make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it". There's more than enough documentation online about who the BNP really are and what they advocate. If Mudcatters treats them kindly, they will use this forum as a propaganda base.

But most folks here already know that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:15 PM

Scopes, "MP's have stole"?

FFS, go back to school. When you can write grammatical English you stand a chance of entering political debate, but, I warn you, the ability to think helps.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:17 PM

to azizi you will always be welcome here no matter what small minded pricks think. did you all know that bnp and ukip are friends? i didn't til some nice person on another thread told me sorry but i can't remember names once i've left the thread coz my brain isn't that big.
i thought it important to tell you cox i was thinking of voting for them BUT NOT NOW. as for printing this persons name i also think that you can try and talk them out of it but when it goes public they will be in the shit and do they really want to put thier' family and friends through the muck raking, if they still go ahead then you have to cut all ties untill they are ready pulicly admit they were wrong.

okay i was ranting sorry

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:43 PM

'Peace, If I was one of the "BNP supporters/converts" that come here, rather than being put off by your insults, I might find you are helping me.'

Then this will be right up your alley, Guest Jon

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:51 PM

As a PS, neither have I ever told anyone who to vote for. However, I would strongly suggest NO ONE vote for the British Nazi Party. Howzat, Scopes?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:52 PM

Not at all Peace. You been waiting for support to put that up?

Anyway, Peace. I dislike the BNP. I just think facing them with facts like the Youtube clip and other information is rather more constructive than coming onto threads to call them assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 May 09 - 07:16 PM

...but if I had to choose between MPs riding the gravy train, and MPs promoting race hatred, ...

Of course with BNP candidates becoming MPs there'd be no need to make that choice, because you'd have both those alternatives rolled into one.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:05 PM

Azizi,

If the friend in question were just an ordinary citizen with the samee political clout as the rest of us, who happened to hold those views and continued to hold them in the face of the very clear reasons given against those views, then I would naturally begin to drift away from them and have difficulty dealing with them.

In this specific case, they have chosen to stand for public office on a BNP platform, in which case they should be confronted until they stop doing so.

My thinking is that the person who is standing will find it much harder to be a hitler pastiche with friends and family in the audience.

It would be harder for them to deny their conscience in such a context.

It would also make it difficult for the other BNP members at such a rally to turn violent or kick the dissenters out, since to do so would be to tar their candidate with that brush in the eyes of his/her own family and friends.

It would be a big spanner in the works for both the BNP and the wayward friend.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:11 PM

Lox, I agree.

Yet doing either of these is easier said than done as both situations would be emotionally difficult for that person's friends/family.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:19 PM

I agree, though I would also recognize that giving up on ones wayward family member would be equally traumatic and difficult to contemplate.

At least if you are confronting them you can keep an eye on them and know how safe they are.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:34 PM

I am reminded of the scene in "to kill a mockingbird" in which Scout recognizes the members of the lynch mob by name, thus depriving them of their anonymity and undermining their united mob mentality resolve.

A BNP rep can be a BNP robot if allowed to be, but he can be exposed as a human being in front of his peers and in the spotlight of his own honesty.

Racist hatred hinges on denial and is propped up by bloody minded determination, unity and support.

The one thing that makes Fascists most dangerous - they never squabble amongst themselves.

Though I hasten to add that the same inability to discuss debate and therefore develop ideas is also their weakpoint and they are unable to evolve politically as a result, despite the best efforts of Nick Griffin.

Which is why they are generally such a bunch of neanderthals.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:00 PM

isn't it a good job that they can't develop, almost everyone can see them for what they truely are. if they were any cleverer then they would be able to blend into society better and we would not be having this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:13 PM

Ah but if they were any cleverer they wouldn't believe that problems like the recession, unemloyment, crime, homelessness etc etc etc are caused by foreigners and they wouldn't be fooled into thinking that kicking them out solves anything.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:21 PM

wouldn't that solve all our problems with them coz it would knock the wind out of their sails?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:24 PM

They don't believe that at all, they want others to believe that so that they came rise to power in a divisive society.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:22 AM

"Not at all Peace. You been waiting for support to put that up?"

No, Pip, it was simply my first time back to the thread since you posted your remark. Now, kindly gfy.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:54 AM

I sometimes wonder if neanderthals were all that bad.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Burning Bridges
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:39 AM

So much fear of the BNP. Looks as if you guys know the party will take a few seats next month. Stop spreading lies about them, they are a great bunch od chaps. As for making referances to youtube, is that not a type of kids social website like bebo ? Do you enjoy flicking thought these pages, I bet you do.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:20 AM

For those of you who do not want to go to the 'kids social website.'

The BNP in their own words
"Honestly now, would you prefer your kid growing up in Oldham and Burnley or 1930s Germany? It would be better for your child to grow up there." Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4

"Meanwhile, the indigenous side in the low-to-medium level civil war brewing in this country is getting its training… It's all going to get very messy."Nick Griffin's blog on BNP website

"Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal… [It] is like suggesting forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence." Then BNP London organiser and GLA candidate, Nick Eriksen

AIDS is "a friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it." Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4

So, Burning Bridges, a bunch of great chaps?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:51 AM

This has degenerated into a contest to see how long the thread can be kept alive by one guest using multiple names to give the impression that the BNP actually have a massive support base.

The truth or otherwise of that is the lack of parliamentary seats.

My suggestion for a BNP election slogan,..........Charmless, Hopeless, and Witless! VOTE FOR...."THUGS 'R US"!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:06 AM

Reposting with name but leaving my disagreement with Peace out. It's not worth it.
----
Anyway, enough of this and back to the subtopic of how to deal with the BNP here. It's easy at home. If they send leaflets, they go in the bin. If they knocked on the door, they would be asked to go away. With something like the European elections, I will vote "anything but the BNP", etc. But what do you do on an open forum where some will be trying to discuss?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:21 AM

Jon,

You are right to point out that allowing yourself to be provoked by BNP goading only threatens to undermine any claims you might have to some kind of moral authority.

The last thing that any of us needs is to open ourselves up to accusations of thuggery and boorishness from fascists, whose laughter, as they watch us froth at the mouth in righteous indignation, rings from valley to hill.

I have had face to face experiences with the BNP and had a drink in a BNP pub and I can tell you from my experience that one of the main differences between BNP members and the rest of us is that they are unable to engage their brains in a process of critical thought without losing their temper and issuing threats and abuse.

If I lost a friend to the BNP, it would be difficult to know what to do about it, but I think I would let them go until I saw them become a menace to innocent bystanders, at which point I would confront them.

Though I wwould probably warn them first so they knew exactly where they stood.

I look forward to reading more posts from you as I am quite sure you will make varied and interesting contributions and will not simply repeat the same shallow profanities over and over again in a mind numbing mantra of self important barking.

I am also confident that you will not abuse innocent bystanders for offering friendly advice.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:37 AM

here here lox. maybe we are giving these idiots too much of our time!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: billybob
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:38 AM

I am amazed! The BNP have set up a stall in Connaught Avenue Frinton on Sea, you must have heard of us, no pub, no fish and chips and save the famous gates!
The frightening thing is they have a huge crowd round them of white haired oldies who are not telling them to leave but seem to be persuaded by what they are saying!
Help!!!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:43 AM

On an open forum like this then we show as much truth as the time between now and the June elections allows.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:47 AM

I have had face to face experiences with the BNP and had a drink in a BNP pub

I have no matching experience but, personally, I would not simply dismiss the BNP as a group of thugs. I think the ability to wear a (to some) more appealing face exists and is more worrying.

If I lost a friend to the BNP, it would be difficult to know what to do about it,

I don't know what I would do if a friend or family was involved.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:56 AM

In the meantime,

Engaging a BNP supporter online in a chat forum may not affect their opinion, but anyone reading the thread will be able to read through the debate and if they are undecided they will be swayed by the more persuasive argument.

Don't forget that there are many people who read these threads without posting, some of whom are just passing through and not even regular mudcat lurkers.

Anyone reading through the above thread would see that the BNP has been thoroughly discredited and the BNP supporter has been able to provide no defence of his position.

In that regard, the above thread is serving an extremely useful and effective purpose.

Those posts which contain little substance will be given little if any attention and the more substantive and patiently explained posts will have the most influence.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:01 AM

Not just this forums, but other forums where BNP may be soreading their lies and deceit to win over hearts and minds of votors. If anyone knows of any other fora/forums where similar debate is taking place, please let me know. if it is against mudcat policy to post clickies to these then please email me

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Azizi
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:05 AM

I imagine that BNP members are happy to see those of us who are against them spending some of our energy arguing among ourselves.

There are many ways to show ones' distaste for and opposition to this heinous political party. IMO, making reasoned points and sharing text and video documentation are important, and it's also important to forcefully and vehemently express one's views about this group and its members. If all of the comments on this thread were reasoned and lacking emotional expression, I for one would wonder if the posters really felt strongly about how terrible that organization is.

Living as I do in the United States, I first learned about the BNP from reading Mudcat threads. I would remind posters to this thread that-in many ways all the Mudcat threads about the BNP are a continuation of the same thread. While this is the first time that I have posted to a BNP thread, this isn't the first time that many Mudcatters such as Bruce have posted to threads about . It seems to me that rather than labeling his postings on this subject "as repeat[ing] the same shallow profanities over and over again in a mind numbing mantra of self important barking", it would be better to become acquainted with his entire posting history about the BNP.

Furthermore, let me also say that if I ever availed myself of opportunities to address the heinous American hate groups such as the KKK, the White Aryan Nation, and the skin heads, I would wish that I knew far more profanity than I do. IMO, cursing at them would be good for my soul and also would call some folks' attention to the fact that I feel passionately about my hatred and my opposition to these groups and all that they stand for.

That said, I very much hope that our energy on these Mudcat threads is directed against the BNP and other hate groups and not against any of us who are against such groups even if we may disagree with how that opposition is expressed.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:12 AM

I don't know SPB,

but something I would say is that it could be worth exercising caution.

I am not a computer techie, but it could be that sabotaging a bnp chat forum could make you vulnerable to reprisals.

Remember that evry post you make comes from a specific IP address and while on sites like this one that information is held in careful confidence, you might not be able to guarantee the same sort of assurances from a BNP site.

We'd need to ask a techies advice.

Joe?

What could go wrong if someone in your position on a different website misused the data available to them?

Is it something that could be done easily?

How would a contributor to such a forum go about protecting themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:21 AM

I am not thinking of BNP originated sites, but other sites like this one that covers subject we, and other people hold dear, and possible other well regulated sites that are set up for non-partizan political debate.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:25 AM

Lox,

I would stay away from sabotaging ANY site. You are in the wrong period and may get caught.

I would also see no point in saying going over to a BNP or whoever site to argue my case.

I believe the BNP might target other sites though, eg. I believe English folk music is of interest at the moment and Mudcat is the biggest Internet site where this is discussed. The paranoid in me would be very surprised if it wasn't known about with people able to put in a good word for them when opportunity arose long before this thread started.... but that is the paranoid in me.

In that sense though, I suppose one could ask oneself what other interests they genuienly do have and try to have a presence willing to speak out even if it's only say on a gardening forum where someone finds the BNP the best option. I don#k know... never though about this before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:35 AM

Azizi,

I agree that it is very important not to allow minor semantic differences to blow up into personal issues.

I also agree that it is important to understand someones reasons and history before commenting too hastily.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: alanabit
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:47 AM

I have met many first generation UK citizens, who embody all the values, which I like to think of as British: Honesty, hard work, kindness and humility.
I have met many people, who have UK citizenship by an accident of birth, whom I would prefer not to associate with as fellow citizens: racists, bigots and foul mouthed louts on the rampage through other peoples' cities, as they defile and disgrace our flag.
With the BNP's enthusiasm for expatriation, why can we not deport those in the second group to a country in which theír Fascist thuggery would currently find resonance - like Russia perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:56 AM

Should we be exporting are garbage?   What have the Russian people ever done to us? - apart from Chelsea :)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 09:18 AM

are = our

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 May 09 - 10:44 AM

Re. reports that the "construction workers" in the BNP pamphlet are actually American models, and the Spitfire was being flown by a Polish Air Force pilot. It was reported on the news this morning that the "NHS doctor" is likewise an American male model. Plus, the "aged couple" are actually Italians. That only leaves the mother and baby and the soldier in full dress uniform. What nationalities will they turn out to be I wonder?

Sounds like these jokers have imbibed that maxim of Joseph Goebells, the one about telling a lie s often enough to make people believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 11:22 AM

"Yes Lox I am a BNP voter"

The sad sod keeps asking why why? Jesus is he(?) so thick???

" believe the BNP might target other sites though"

and that's exactly what the like of GUEST,Scopes and Burning Bridges are doing here.

The way forward, you say? Then just maybe I need to make sure my travel documents are in order.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 09 - 11:51 AM

Rifleman,

Keep your passport in your drawer and don't buy your ticket just yet.

They aren't going to get into government.

They will be looking to disrupt our society come june the 4th and to stir up discord and hatred.

We won't let them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:12 PM

I have no intentions of going anywhere, Lox, I do love a good fight, and so do my dogs (three fiesty Jack Russells who have a;ready had a "BNP experience")

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:29 PM

o thought this was suppossed to be a discussion not an all out war.oh shit, i am not equipped properly. as for your' jack russels they wouldn't get too far against steel toe caps!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:36 PM

Be careful, you don't want you jack russels to catch rabies....

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:52 PM

I believe the reason for having three Jack Russels is: -

one on one foot

one on the other

and the other somewhat higher and in between...


I also think that "Burning Bridges" was intended to imply a threat to me. Phone first chaps. I'll have the chain saw running.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:06 PM

Every party uses models even the liebour party when they film their elections is all done using fake people and fake scenery ! Nothing wrong or unusual about that ! As for the BNP, roll on the day when they are in power. Our country will be a far better place for them !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:10 PM

Just like it was for millions of Europeans under the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:27 PM

The Nazis and the Fascists are the lib/lab/con who are trying to create a new EUSSR. No thanks - I don't want that. I just want my country back the way it used to be. I don't want to live in a New World Order of Communism ! I'll be voting BNP come hell or high water. You can make what stupid inane comment you like. I will not be changing my mind. I've had enough of all the sleaze parties. They've had fifty years of doing exactly what they want. I was never asked if I wanted to live in a multiculti country ! We were doing just fine as we were until the traitor Edward Heath sold us out to Europe for the price of a boat ! The then governmebt knew that the Brits would never sign away their sovereignty, so they made up a pack of lies called the Common Market and bought in their Marxism under cover ! If you're happy with the way thimgs are and you want to live in a multiculti Marxist Hellhole then keep voting for them. I think for myself !

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,beowulf
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:42 PM

Totally agree with the last two comments. Most of the others are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think this country will be the same in 30/40 years time. Thankfully I probably won't be around, but my grandchildren will and they won't be thanking me if I don't make a stand now. I have watched my country deteriorate over the last 50 years and I'm glad my old dad's not alive, he would be going frantic, he gave up 6 years of life for you cretins.
Judging by your comments you probably live far away from an inner city, so keep having a pint in your sleepy vllage local while it still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:51 PM

I personally ! think they sound ! over ! excited.

I don't know why I keep reading this, but it makes me wonder if now in the UK feels anything like Germany when the Nazis were on the rise. They looked good to an awful lot of people despite what they were beneath the righteousness.

As for the name calling and other stuff, what do you think if you're on the street and someone comes up to another person and slaps her? You immediately want to defend the innocent person. You get the same thing when you attack these manipulative bastards people here. I agree, BTW, but you'll just make them into low-rent martyrs.

The US elected Bush and look how he turned out. He wasn't nearly as bad as the BNP sounds. Remember, anything that can go wrong, will.

Here are some nice videos I found.

I'd like it if any thread about the BNP would be open to members and regular guests only. These opportunistic nasties find us via Google or other chat room/forum and he can just come in here and pile on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 09 - 01:51 PM

So you repatrition policy (of which compulsory has not been ruled out by your leader) will only apply to non-BNP members?