Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: glueman
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:16 PM

Vashti fans scroll down.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: glueman
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 05:32 AM

The WoS was best used in the Bob B Sox and the Bluejeans period IMO, especially on tracks like 'Monday - (and my heart beat a little bit faster)' a superlative track from a team on top of their game.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 09:03 PM

The "Wall-of-Sound" from Wikipedia:

Spector usually worked at the Gold Star Studios in Los Angeles because of its exceptional echo chambers, essential to the Wall of Sound technique. Microphones in the recording studio captured the sound, which was then transmitted to an echo chamber—a basement room outfitted with speakers and microphones. The signal from the studio would be played through the speakers and would reverberate around the room, being picked up by the microphones. The echo-laden sound was then channeled back to the control room, where it was transferred to tape.

The natural reverberation and echo from the hard walls of the room gave his productions their distinctive quality and resulted in a rich and complex sound when played on AM radio, with an impressive depth rarely heard in mono recordings.

Songwriter Jeff Barry, who worked extensively with Spector, described the Wall of Sound as:"...basically a formula. You're going to have four or five guitars line up, gut-string guitars, and they're going to follow the chords...two basses in fifths, with the same type of line, and strings...six or seven horns, adding the little punches…formula percussion instruments — the little bells, the shakers, the tambourines. Phil used his own formula for echo, and some overtone arrangements with the strings. But by and large there was a formula arrangement."

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:43 PM

Spleen Cringe - Nothing against 'Wall of Sound' as such.

Think in terms of perfume/aftershave (!). It can make you smell nice but if you haven't washed then basically , beneath it all - ypu stink.

A huge number of acts the 'Wall of Sound' is applied to are basically rubbish!

BUT... that's not to sleight those who use it to enhance even more someone who's fundamentally sound.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: GUEST,Indrani Ananda
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:02 PM

Can you tell me why it is that if a choirgirl sings a song she is credited with having 'the voice of an angel', but should a woman not lose her childish overtones, she is described as 'airy-fairy' or 'too sweet and syrupy'?

            I can sing as high as the choirboy in Faure's Requiem, but I can also belt out Kishmul's Galley at the folk club in a loud 'let-rip' mode.

          The strange thing is nobody likes the high voice - probably because they can't join in!

                                  Indrani.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 12:16 PM

Very interesting, that use of loud obnoxious music against embassies, maybe because of the "quaint" (as Cheney said) tradition of not attacking embassies with conventional weapons.

They've been working on infrasound weapons for a long time -- very low frequency waves that can go through anything and are even more painful than a rock concert.

An interesting side note I found while looking for a link on infrasound weaponry: apparently 18 Hz can make people see ghosts.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 09:12 AM

I've always loved the Wall of Sound Stuff--even still, I understand TonyA's point--there have been an awful lot of performers,not just folk, whose talent was swallowed up by inappropriate production--that is to say, the production on the recordings didn't emphasize their strengths, it covered them up.

I've been listening to early Dylan stuff lately, mostly just his guitar and voice, and am amazed at how strong it is, even today--the producer could have brought in an orchestra and chorus, or a banjo/guitars/bass group, or Nelson Riddle, or some such thing, but he found a way to capture was Dylan was really doing-if there was more of that, our kind of music would be a lot more popular--

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:28 AM

And say what you will about the CIA and waterboarding, but at least they didn't subject prisoners to electric guitars with fuzz.

Funny you should mention that - actually incessant loud music has been a CIA/US military weapon of choice for some years now. It features a lot in first-person testimonies from CIA 'black prisons' (usually rap music), but I first saw references to it at the time of the ousting of Noriega, back in 1989.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:30 PM

It's Phil Spector's legacy: the Wall of Sound.

And it's the bane of my life. I often love the live performances of folk-oriented singers who appear on stage alone and armed only with an acoustic guitar, only to find that I don't like their CD's at all because a barrage of backup musicians drowns out the singing I was interested in.

Drums are fine for dance music (I love to dance to soca bands), but in vocal music, they serve the same function that a headlight shining in my eyes would serve when trying to view a Renaissance painting. And say what you will about the CIA and waterboarding, but at least they didn't subject prisoners to electric guitars with fuzz.

Bunyan and Rusby's appearance on my list of favorite singers has a lot to do with the fact that they're among the few recording artists whose voices I can actually hear on the recording.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 May 09 - 03:31 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with arrangements, Ian. Robert Kirby, for example, has done wonderful work with Nick Drake, Vashti Bunyan, Shelagh McDonald, Maddy Prior and Tim Hart and many others. Pamela Wyn Shannon has some lovely string arrangements on her last album. Obviously its different from what you'd hear in the back rooom of a pub, but that's okay. Nowt like a bit of variety. It obviously helps if the raw material is good, and luckily with JADD there are some lovely songs. Having said that, Ali Roberts did a very nice, fairly stripped down version of "Window Across the Bay" on his "Warm and Yeasty Corner" e.p. with his old band Appendix Out. It works well.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:14 PM

If JADD was purely vocals and stripped down acoustic guitar it wouldn't be the minor classic it is today. (Spleen Cringe)

Quite possibly. The only person to have had a UK chart hit with basic Singer + Folk style guitar is Joan Baez, I believe.

But that's a sad reflection on the state of 'Popular' music, not on Vashti's or that of any other folk like performer.

"Must have drums and 16 backing tracks...."

Well, how else can the creativly bankrupt popular music industry sell us so much c**p called "latest stunning composition" from mediochre "Stars" except by layering over rubbish songs with lots of pretty dust sheets?

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 29 May 09 - 01:20 PM

Much better.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:59 PM

Tetchy!

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:14 PM

quote: Or to translate: "Not very good singer does great album, shock."

Since you insist on trying to interpret my statements rather than making your own, I have to clarify yet again that, on the contrary, I think she's a very good singer. It might be less stressful for you if you simply gave up trying to understand what I'm saying.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:45 AM

Or to translate: "Not very good singer does great album, shock."

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:52 AM

quote: Erm... since when was JADD all about the voice? Most of Vashti's supporters here - well, TonyA and Indrani, at least - are missing the point. If JADD was purely vocals and stripped down acoustic guitar it wouldn't be the minor classic it is today.

I may have missed your point, but I've made no attempt to address it. I have no interest in whatever you mean by a "minor classic." You've clearly missed my point also, but I didn't call attention to that before because I believe you're entitled to your own opinion on your own choice of topic.

For me Vashti Bunyan's appeal is primarily in her voice, even if that's not the case for you. As Indrani pointed out, it's not that Vashti Bunyan has a particularly strong or resonant voice, but rather that she presents it in its natural state, without distortions that attempt to give it more presence, and with emphasis on the melodic quality of the song, and without distracting and highly percussive accompaniment. It's odd that those qualities should be so rare in recorded music, but they are, and I'm delighted when I find them. In cultures for which marketing is not the sine qua non I like everyone's singing.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:02 AM

Erm... since when was JADD all about the voice? Most of Vashti's supporters here - well, TonyA and Indrani, at least - are missing the point. If JADD was purely vocals and stripped down acoustic guitar it wouldn't be the minor classic it is today.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: theleveller
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:25 AM

"If she were 30 or 40 years younger, you'd all be besotted like the Rusby sycophants, but on the other hand - if it had been a man we were debating - he would no doubt be allowed to drone into his dotage unassailed and appreciated!"

Utter rubbish - if anyone is being ageist (and sexist) here, it's you. I don't happen to like Vashti Bunyan's voice. It's a personal preference. That's all there is to it. Age has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:24 AM

quote: ...she has not been blessed with a resonant Earth-mother type of voice so revered in folk clubs for its "richness". So she has written songs which match the voice she uses to the best of her ability, by singing her own songs.

Excellent point! Thank you, Indrani.

Some people suggested an artificial quality about her singing -- "affected," "pretentious," "ethereal," "spaced-out," or "drippy hippy air fairy." But Vashti Bunyan, like Kate Rusby and all the other singers I love, sings in her own natural voice, without tension or pretension. The only thing unusual about Vashti Bunyan's singing is, as you said, that she doesn't have a type of voice common among performers. She's not someone who would be asked to sing the national anthem at a sporting event. But more credit to her for the courage to sing in spite of that, and for bringing out the sweetness in her own voice rather than straining it or trying to sound like someone else.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: GUEST,Indrani Ananda
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:29 PM

I hear no complaints when old gits or other ageing women sing in folk clubs. What is it you don't like about Vashti? Her voice, her songs, her playing - oh no, it must be her age - due to the somewhat snide remarks by Peter K (LOL) 2nd letter, and Smedley, about "quality falling through the floor, and something about a crazy aunt" (27th May).
               
                I've never met or seen Vashti, but like me, she has not been blessed with a
resonant Earth-mother type of voice so revered in folk clubs for its "richness". So she has written songs which match the voice she uses to the best of her ability, by singing her own songs. If no-one will do it for you, you have to do it yourself - even if it does mean getting slagged off in the process.
      

                The remark about "The quality fell through the floor" was snide enough, and merely points to the fact that the sliders and button-pressers behind the scenes were not giving her enough technical acoustic assistance which a quiet voice needs. The other women in the concert would probably have blown the speakers with their catawauling. I'm sick of people being evaluated by how loud and "in-yer-face" they can be.

                Through sheer luck or right-placeness, Vashti has got further than most of us, in spite of her girl's voice: I like to think that this proves there is hope for me yet. If she were 30 or 40 years younger, you'd all be besotted like the Rusby sycophants, but on the other hand - if it had been a man we were debating - he would no doubt be allowed to drone into his dotage unassailed and appreciated!

                            Indrani.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 May 09 - 12:11 PM

but one note from June or Norma would blow her out of the building.

Fighting talk! Well I think one note from Cecilia Bartoli would blow June and Norma out the building, but I still love Vashti - and JADD - for the pure joy the songs have given me & my own over the years. Somewhere, I still have a recording of my daughter singing Lily Pond when she was three. She is 29 this year and hates folk with a passion - so you might imagine it's the sort of thing she would dearly like to see destroyed. Since the reissue of JADD I've come to appreciate Vashti's roots and the uniqueness of her craft in an age when musical humanity has been all but subsumed by the slick. Rejoice I say.

Meanwhile, here's another of my favourite female singers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfpq11-sRVQ&feature=related

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:13 PM

its a rainy afternoon and I'm at a loose end waiting for my dinner to cook..

so..

here's an interesting & informative interview...

http://www.furious.com/perfect/vashtibunyan.html

now to try to remember which box the wifes copy of the CD is buried in...???

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:34 AM

If you want to see how Vashti B looks in a folk context, try to see the Women of Albion concert from about three years ago (more??. Filmed by the BBC at the London Barbican, it brings together June Tabor, Norma Waterson, Sheila Chandra, Kathryn Williams, Eliza Carthy, Lou Rhodes & Vashti B. Not all of them are straightforwardly folk, but they all have distinctive and strong voices (even though the wonderful Kathryn W expresses her strength very quietly).

Except when Vashti B floats on to the stage, the quality level goes through the floor. Her spaced-out-crazy-auntie thing might work in isolation, but in the middle of those other singers she is horribly exposed.

I'm sure she is a lovely person, kind to cats, etc etc, but one note from June or Norma would blow her out of the building.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:19 AM

... might be worth a few minutes googling...



Vashti Bunyan - 2006 - Northern Sky {.flac}

Vashti Bunyan - The Attic, Santa Cruz CA, September 6th, 2006 {.Flac}

Vashti Bunyan - 2006-08-12 - Summer Sundae Festival, Leicester, UK {mp3}

Nico & Tangerine Dream - Notre-Dame Live 1974-12-13

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 May 09 - 10:59 PM

You never disappoint, Sedayne--I am a big Karen Carpenter fan, too. Truly a voice for the ages.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:58 PM

Thanks Tootler!!

Ian

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Tootler
Date: 26 May 09 - 06:41 PM

Link didn't work. Try this

www.myspace.com/aliendreamuk

You had somehow concatenated the mudcat url with the myspace link.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:17 PM

TonyA and others who like ethereal distinctive female singers could try this link:

myspace.com/aliendreamuk

Ian F

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray)
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:35 PM

Want to know who one my favourite female singer of all time is?

Karen Carpenter.

There's a documentary about her on BBC2 right now & I'm grinning like a Cheshire cat.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 24 May 09 - 01:46 PM

We had a young woman called Vashti sing at our tuesday club last year.

Whatever you think of Vashti Original, I have to say her song that was used in the advert which brought her (back) to the attention of we Brighton music veterans was the only thing I recall about the advert (Oh yes the bloke falling through a roof or something). I can't remember the product. So I guess Vashti was the real beneficiary.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 24 May 09 - 11:49 AM

quote: TonyA does - he was saying the reason we should listen to her is because she's folk.

Members with better reading skills will note that I've never said that "she's folk" (nor that she's "not folk"), and that my linguistic habits don't tend toward statements of that nature. I've tried to clarify all this twice before, but Jack keeps arguing against it anyway. If he were to argue against the point I actually made he would sound very silly, and perhaps he can't bear the prospect of life without argument. I'm reminded of a Monty Python sketch in which a man pays a fee to have an argument with a professional.

And I didn't say that anyone else should listen to her. I only said that I love her singing. That's a gut reaction and it has nothing to do with the question of whether "she's folk," whatever that means. I also love the violin solo albums of Gidon Kremer, and I think most people would say, if pressed, that he's "not folk."

It's futile to try to say whether anyone or anything "is folk." Should I try, fifty thousand drinking men shall rise to disagree with me. That fact itself might explain why Vashti Bunyan, or anyone else, might want to reject the label of folk singer.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 May 09 - 11:08 AM

Talking of Scottish persons, Alasdair Roberts?

Now you're talking. In fact, this very evening I am going to walk to the end of my street, take a right and thirty seconds later I will be in Dulcimer for an event called A Month of Sundays headlined by the aforementioned Mr Roberts. Oh happy day!

Talking of female singers with a Scottish connection, did not western isles resident Anne Briggs recently say that the one thing that might tempt her out of retirement would be to work with Ali Roberts? Now that would be all of my christmases coming at once! I'd happily pay for the studio time out of my meagre savings to make that happen...

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Folknacious
Date: 24 May 09 - 10:35 AM

So if you're "one of us" you're allowed to be "folk" and if you aren't, tough. Well, that makes a lot more sense to me in describing how the folk scene in the UK operates than any 1954 And All That. Good to see somebody come out and admit that the clique aspect exists though

Talking of Scottish persons, Alasdair Roberts?

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 May 09 - 08:21 AM

And what does whether or not she is part of the folk scene in Edinburgh or anyplace else have to do with anything? Do people really still judge a piece of music by any criteria other than how it sounds and how it makes them feel? I couldn't give a flying fuck whether it's folk and why should anyone else?

TonyA does - he was saying the reason we should listen to her is because she's folk.

Which was nonsense because (a) nobody needs that as a motivation, as you say, and (b) she never was and says so herself.

To expand on the point about her local connections, or lack thereof: virtually all of Karine Polwart's songwriting output is melodically just as far removed from any Scottish tradition as Bunyan's. But Polwart's songs get sung around the Edinburgh scene and Bunyan's don't. The reason is that Polwart has put a lot of effort into connecting with local folk/trad musicians, both pro and amateur - she does local gigs, runs singing and songwriting workshops, turns up at all sorts of events as a participant, helps make events happen for other people and generally makes herself both helpful and welcome. She's part of the community, and that makes her music part of the community's music as well.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 May 09 - 07:00 AM

Folknacious, Shelagh McDonald's Dowie Dens Of Yarrow is, to my mind, one of the best things ever recorded by anyone ever. Absolutely phenomenal. Worth the price of the double CD reissue for the interplay between Shelagh's voice and the funky hammond organ alone.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 May 09 - 06:58 AM

This is another she's-fab-she's-shite-she's-fab-she's-shite type threads, isn't it?

Whether she's a folk singer or not is entirely irrelevant and depends on what you think folk is (all together: definition #1 process, #2 context, #3 marketing tool). She says she's not - that's good enough for me.

What I do know is that "Just Another Diamond Day" is a beautiful if somewhat dated and - yes - somewhat twee album. And what's wrong with a bit of twee? Not everything has to be muscular or intense or authentic or whatever the de riguer quality of the month happens to be. And what does whether or not she is part of the folk scene in Edinburgh or anyplace else have to do with anything? Do people really still judge a piece of music by any criteria other than how it sounds and how it makes them feel? I couldn't give a flying fuck whether it's folk and why should anyone else? It stands or falls on the relationship between its own merits and how the listener hears it.

And its not about her voice. Does VB claim to have a technically brilliant voice? Is that really what its all about? Of course not. It's about the whole package - the songwriting, the arrangements (sublime in places), the playing, the ambience, the mood. It shouldn't just be about technical ability. Without the VIBE all the technique in the world means bugger all.

JADD, for me, evokes a warmy, fuzzy, pleasureable melancholy and a keen sense of nostalgia for a time and place I've never been to. It wraps me in a cocoon of otherworldliness and ethereality. And that really is good enough for me.

"Lookaftering" didn't float my boat, though.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: michaelr
Date: 23 May 09 - 09:48 PM

Tony, Muireann is one of the ascending stars in Irish music today, and the description "strong, mature-sounding voice" fits her perfectly, young though she is. Check out her Myspace page. She is also a very good flute and whistle player.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Folknacious
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:46 PM

There were several things Vashti Bunyan shared with the over-sainted Nick Drake apart from Joe Boyd as a producer. Gaining fame as a result of their music being used in adverts was one. Hardly anybody buying their records when they first came out because (whisper) they weren't actually that good in comparison to other people who were around, was another. Still aren't to my ears. Never did 'get' either of them.

Compared to that other singer of her era who did a disappearing act until recently, Shelagh McDonald, VB doesn't warrant consideration.

Since other singers in related fields are being discussued, Mary Hampton anybody?

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:17 PM

As Sean pointed out, Bunyan herself agrees more with me than with Tony, assuming this godawful piece of London hack journalism reports her accurately:

These folk are better by Degrees
By André Paine, Evening Standard 15.01.07

Sparkling Diamond: long-lost siren Vashti Bunyan evoked magical, bucolic settings

The f-word - folk - went unmentioned at this Arts Council-backed collaboration by four acts from Buenos Aires, San Francisco, Scotland and London. Instead, it was billed as "contemporary acoustic music" to distance itself from the beard and jumpers brigade (several still turned up, despite the absence of real ale at the bar).

Edinburgh-based Vashti Bunyan was the evening's cult star, a long-lost Sixties siren who insists she was never folk, despite once travelling by horse to live on Donovan's hippie commune near the island of Skye.

"You might think this song is about phones," said Bunyan of Diamond Day from 1970, now belatedly getting recognition thanks to a T-Mobile advert.

With their wistful vocals and guitar, her slight songs were evocative of magical, bucolic settings.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:59 PM

quote: the brilliant Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh - now there's a voice.

Thanks for the tip, Michael. I'd never heard her before. As I said above, there are many strong, mature-sounding female voices among my favorite singers, though I somehow forgot to mention the magnificent Celtic singer Ray Fisher.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:29 PM

Oh shit. "What is folk"?

Ignorance is bliss.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:46 PM

quote: I don't see how someone who's far alienated from the folk scene in its entirety as not to want to hear any of it live, or pass on their own songs in a live setting, could consider themselves to be part of it.

You insist on arguing against something that hasn't been said.

Once again, no one has said that Vashti Bunyan considers herself part of the folk scene in Edinburgh. The only thing I've said is that she sounds like a folk singer and her fan base consider themselves folk music fans, and therefore it's less surprising to hear her music discussed here than to hear about the vocalist in a disco band.

If you play one of Vashti Bunyan's songs for people and ask them what kind of music that is, more people will say folk music than any other type. I doubt that anyone would say that about Saint Etienne.

I'm sorry if you feel she has snubbed your folk scene. It may be nothing more than agoraphobia that keeps her away.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 09 - 04:27 PM

TonyA maybe needs to visit Edinburgh to get the point. Yes there are lots of Dylan-alikes here and have been for as long as I've been here (and imitators of Judy Collins and Eva Cassidy, who might be more relevant). There is no loudly amplified festival described as "folk" anywhere in Scotland, and while I've heard a lot of bluegrass here, I've never heard anyone doing it amplified. You can hear just about any kind of music anyone has ever wanted to call "folk" at a club, singaround or session in the Edinburgh area every night of the week. And somebody as spacey and out-there as Freeloadin Frank, with his own songs about cellulite fetishism and flying on a magic cornflake, fit in just fine with people playing pipe marches on the accordion.

I don't see how someone who's far alienated from the folk scene in its entirety as not to want to hear any of it live, or pass on their own songs in a live setting, could consider themselves to be part of it.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:57 PM

Ah, the conoscenti. Ipse Dixit.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: glueman
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:56 PM

"what she does is pretentious."

No, lurid. An outsider. The other England.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: michaelr
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:50 PM

St Etienne entirely wonderful and Kate Rusby entirely vapid?? My, have you got it backwards.

I am quite tired of the little-girl whispery soprano voices as evidenced by Ms Bunyan, Cara Dillon et al. Which I said recently to the brilliant Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh - now there's a voice.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Or, to put it another way, what she does is pretentious.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: TonyA
Date: 23 May 09 - 12:22 PM

quote: It didn't just mean she didn't do shows - she didn't go to anybody else's either.
No contact with the folk scene at all - and given how energetic the Edinburgh folk scene is (from Scottish trad to Americana), surely she'd have had some involvement in it if she was the least bit interested?

Jack, your failure to meet Vashti Bunyan has nothing to do with the question of whether she sounds like a folk singer and whether her fan base consists primarily of people who think of themselves as folk music enthusiasts.

No one has suggested that she's "interested," as you said, i.e. that she wants to be thought of as a folk singer, or that she particularly likes Scottish traditional or Americana music or various other styles that can be included under the folk umbrella, or that she has any other reason to want to rub elbows with the local folk fans.

The Wikipedia article says that in her early career she felt closely connected to Dylan and Donovan, who were then thought of as folk singers at least here in the U.S., but that may have changed, and that type of "folk" music may be nothing like the folk music heard in the energetic Edinburgh folk scene. And there may be other reasons to stay away from local concerts and festivals even if one likes the type of music they offer.

In my local area there's an energetic folk scene, but a "folk festival" here usually means loud, distorted P.A. systems pumping out bluegrass music by what I presume is the same band returning to the stage over and over in different costumes, interrupted only by the occasional Neil Young impersonator. And lots of little tents barbecuing greasy meats and deep-frying lumps of batter. I do think of myself as a folk singer but I have no interest in any of that.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: glueman
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:21 AM

Kate Bush fits in an English visionary tradition that reaches through William Blake, John Piper, Barbara Jones writers like Arthur Machen, Peter Ackroyd and Iain Sinclair and filmmakers such as Powell and Pressburger and Derek Jarman and performers inc. Robert Wyatt, Syd Barratt and Throbbing Gristle. The vein of exoticism that is as profoundly English as all your keeping-it-real bods and their earthy polemics.

She is a fundamental presence in that (largely untold) backstory of the nation and as such A Very Important Person.

Subject: RE: Vashti Bunyan - your opinion of her singing?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:20 AM

Drippy hippy air fairy nonsense.

Dave H