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Dylan night

Phil Edwards 21 May 09 - 08:37 PM
Ernest 22 May 09 - 02:05 AM
Peace 22 May 09 - 02:15 AM
Sooz 22 May 09 - 02:17 AM
Peace 22 May 09 - 02:19 AM
Will Fly 22 May 09 - 06:09 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 09 - 06:29 AM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 06:49 AM
Richard Bridge 22 May 09 - 08:24 AM
Jim Dixon 22 May 09 - 09:06 AM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 09:25 AM
Jack Blandiver 22 May 09 - 09:26 AM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 09:28 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 May 09 - 09:33 AM
Dave Sutherland 22 May 09 - 10:39 AM
evansakes 22 May 09 - 10:41 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 22 May 09 - 11:05 AM
Maryrrf 22 May 09 - 11:10 AM
Bill D 22 May 09 - 11:21 AM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 11:24 AM
Will Fly 22 May 09 - 11:30 AM
Waddon Pete 22 May 09 - 11:32 AM
SINSULL 22 May 09 - 11:48 AM
Les in Chorlton 22 May 09 - 11:52 AM
Acorn4 22 May 09 - 12:29 PM
PoppaGator 22 May 09 - 12:32 PM
Les in Chorlton 22 May 09 - 12:37 PM
Les in Chorlton 22 May 09 - 12:38 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 22 May 09 - 12:55 PM
Cllr 22 May 09 - 01:01 PM
Richard Bridge 22 May 09 - 01:20 PM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 02:05 PM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 02:13 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 22 May 09 - 02:18 PM
Acorn4 22 May 09 - 02:26 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 22 May 09 - 02:32 PM
Phil Edwards 22 May 09 - 05:36 PM
Pierre Le Chapeau 22 May 09 - 06:23 PM
Gulliver 22 May 09 - 08:05 PM
Phil Edwards 23 May 09 - 05:58 AM
GUEST 23 May 09 - 06:52 AM
GUEST,Jon 23 May 09 - 07:16 AM
Geordie-Peorgie 23 May 09 - 05:42 PM
GUEST 23 May 09 - 05:56 PM
Richard Bridge 23 May 09 - 07:43 PM
Beer 23 May 09 - 08:10 PM
Phil Edwards 24 May 09 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,Jon 24 May 09 - 04:45 AM
Darowyn 24 May 09 - 04:59 AM
GUEST,Jon 24 May 09 - 05:23 AM
Phil Edwards 26 May 09 - 07:58 AM
Les in Chorlton 26 May 09 - 08:12 AM
Gedi 26 May 09 - 08:51 AM
Les in Chorlton 26 May 09 - 09:28 AM
Spleen Cringe 26 May 09 - 09:38 AM
GUEST 18 Aug 13 - 01:51 PM
Les in Chorlton 18 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM
GUEST 18 Aug 13 - 02:48 PM
Phil Edwards 18 Aug 13 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Don Wise 19 Aug 13 - 04:15 AM
Phil Edwards 19 Aug 13 - 08:42 AM
Little Hawk 19 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM
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Subject: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 21 May 09 - 08:37 PM

Bear with me. I've just got in from the aforesaid rubbish night out, and I'm writing this partly to collect my thoughts and partly to ask, was it just me? Would someone else in my shoes have had a perfectly decent night out?

"Dylan night - arrive early and get your name down for a spot" said the publicity. Ordinary club nights usually start at least half an hour after the billed 9.00 start time, but this is a special night and more widely advertised, so I turn up at 8.45. There are about six people there, not including the organiser. By 9.00 the place is buzzing - 40+ people there, more than a normal club night - but still no MC. We finally kick off at 9.20, with a warning from the MC that there are a lot of acts to get on, so please to keep it short - no Desolation Row or Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, or at least not the whole thing.

Someone does Visions of Johanna and sportingly omits the last verse. A bunch of people do Isis, sung even less melodically than Bob does; it takes about half an hour. Boo. Someone does One Too Many Mornings and gets through it in about 45 seconds. Hurrah.

All this time I'm wondering when I'm going to get on, although since the MC wrote the number 24 next to my name I suspect it won't be very soon.

Someone announces this is the first time he's ever performed in public, gets a round of applause, goes on for a bit about how amazing it is to be performing in front of so many people when he's never performed in public before, then does I'll Remember You. Top marks for doing a Dylan song no one else in the room has heard even once, but I'm afraid I find it easy to believe he's never performed in public before. There *are* a lot of people there. There are about 100 there, maybe more. Average singers' nights get about 30.

Someone gets up and says he hopes he gets this song right, as he only wrote it this afternoon. Hello? Dylan night? Possibly not the time to debut your new song about the healing power of love? Just a thought.

Someone does Desolation Row. I kid you not - after being specifically warned about keeping it short, after being *specifically* told not to do Desolation Sodding Row, someone does it. Every verse. It goes on until the middle of next week. When the singer's finally finished he leaves, along with about five of his friends.

Someone does a clever version of I Want You with the first verse sung really slowly and deliberately. Except that it turns out to be a version of I Want You with *every* verse sung really slowly and deliberately, which doesn't seem quite so clever.

Someone does Simple Twist of Fate. After a while you really start to notice how long some of these songs are.

Then we have a break. Over the last few days I'd worked up Idiot Wind, with a backup option of Girl From The North Country, which I was planning to sing to the tune of Scarborough Fair; my thinking was that if I was feeling mellow I'd go with the Girl, but if I was feeling ratty I'd give the world both barrels of Idiot Wind. I spend part of the break running through Idiot Wind.

Then we're back, and someone else does I Want You. Badly. *So* badly, as you might say.

By now it's late and I'm tired, which means there's only one choice of song when I'm finally called at 11.45 - Mr Tambourine Man, a song which I'm convinced is basically about passing out at dawn after being up all night. I think I do it OK.

Someone does Highway 61, very well indeed. I wake up a bit.

Someone does The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll - also very well, but the effect's not so enlivening.

Then we get to the final number. In the past this has been the cue for everyone to pile on stage and bash away at I Shall Be Released or Mr Tambourine Man or whatever. The song is announced as One More Cup Of Coffee, which is a bit of a favourite of mine - I like putting in the twiddly bits. I head for the stage, along with assorted guitarists and fiddlers. However, when I get there it seems some preparation has gone on; someone's already nabbed the lead vocal, which he sings competently but without any twiddly bits whatsoever. Not having an instrument, I'm left perched on a stool like a lemon; all I can do is pitch in on the choruses.

I walk home wishing I'd spent the time singing traditional songs. By the time I get home it's nearly 1.00. It could be worse - I don't actually have to go out to work in the morning - but it's not ideal.

Was that a bloody awful evening or am I just a grumpy old traddie? Or am I just embarrassed about going on stage in the last number? I really don't know.

(Oh, and apparently if you get home at nearly 1.00 and stay up, it gets even later. Really ought to turn in.)


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Ernest
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:05 AM

Try a karaoke night next time.

;0)
Ernest


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:15 AM

Well on the bright side, no one recited "A Child's Christmas in Wales".


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Sooz
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:17 AM

Glad I wasn't there.


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:19 AM

Pip, your post gave me one of two really good laughs today. Thank you. Sorry about the night. Happened at a festival I was at. Half a dozen people on stage with an hour to do. Talk in between songs and the singing rotating one song at a time. Fifteen minutes to go and with still three people to be heard from and this couple couple do an eight minute song. C'est la vie.


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:09 AM

Been there. Heard all that. Which is why I don't go to "singer theme" nights in clubs any more.

Many performers don't seem to have a sense of occasion, or of who else follows them, or of how much time is available, and will persist in offering something overlong in spite of all these factors. This is because they're more concerned with the "me" factor than with a feel for the evening as a whole.

I never, if I can help it, do any song or tune that lasts longer than around 3 or 4 minutes at the most. And if I get a signal from a club host to "be quick" or to have so many minutes, I stick to the brief. It's just politeness. That happens to be my philosophy, my "shtick", if you like. That's not to say that long and intricate ballad (for example) shouldn't be performed - just have the sensitivity to fit your performance to the occasion.


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:29 AM

Glad I wasn't there with Sooz (and Mr. Sooz, as he's always where Sooz is).


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:49 AM

Cheers, Will, and damn right. Saying it can sound sanctimonious, and it probably means we're terribly uptight & got potty-trained too early, but yes - it's just politeness. Or lack of. What was going through the head of the guy who did Desolation Row I don't know, but it must have been some variant on "that doesn't apply to me..."

(Incidentally, I was planning to blast through Idiot Wind. The first time that club had a Dylan night, I did a spoken-word version of Hard Rain - three minutes flat. Get on, knock 'em dead, get off.)


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:24 AM

Why is this in BS?


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Subject: RE: BS: A rubbish night out
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:06 AM

Pip, all was not lost. At least you got a good story out of it.

One of these days, though, I'm going to write an essay to shame all you Brits who love to whine (or whinge) about your folk clubs.

Just be glad you don't live in America, where THERE ARE NO FOLK CLUBS.

(Oh, I know, as soon as I make a categorical statement like that at Mudcat, someone will pipe up and say "There's one in Poughkeepsie!"—a thousand miles from where I live—literally!—which sort of proves my point.)


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:25 AM

Richard - it's BS because the OP is just me ranting on about an unsatisfactory night I had; Blowing Smoke, as they say. It wasn't meant to raise any broader issues about FCs or the Nature of Folk. I mean, I was tired, I had indigestion, the beer I was drinking was a bit young - lots of people there probably had a great night.

The real disappointment is that an evening of Dylan material can be an absolutely stunning experience - depends on the choice of material, and on the performer. (This time last year, a guy with a huge Van Morrison-type voice did an absolutely blinding Queen Jane.) Next time I go to that club I'm doing Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, in three minutes flat. That'll larn 'em.

(OK, maybe four minutes.)


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:26 AM

Dylan Night? Sounds like hell on earth from the outset - but I'm wondering how could it be anything else? This sort of thing is the arsehole of the contemporary folk world and really no place for a sensitive neo-Traditionalist such as yourself...


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:28 AM

it's BS because the OP is just me ranting on

Apparently I've been overruled. Never mind.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:33 AM

Second try - I clicked on refresh

It brings to mind a night many years ago of a club I used to co-organise.

It was a guest night. MC arrived 30 minutes late, then spent more than 20 minutes tuning his guitar on stage, and went into a long spot.

when it got to my spot treasurer asked if I could keep it short as the club was running late. I did the shortest song in my repertoire - less than 20 seconds.

Guest did a shortened sport before the interval. Interval over-ran before the MC got started again, more guitar problems and another long spot. The guest did about 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

As the club treasurer I had to bite my lip to avoid suggesting to the guest that as he had only done half the work (he was booked for 2 x 30 minute sets, he should only take half the booking fee (not really, but it is a thought...)


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:39 AM

Isn't "Idiot Wind" among Bob's longer efforts ( brilliant song by the way) so I'm surprised that your man didn't mention that one as well?
"I'll Remember You" wasn't that from "Empire Burlesque"?, not one of his better albums - possibly why nobody knew it.
I'd love to go to a Dylan night just to see what it would be like, but they don't have them round our way:-(


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: evansakes
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:41 AM

When you go to a Dylan singers night you always wind up confused and feel that you've been used.

That's what you call the Zimmerman Blues.

I know what I'd choose.

Any damn thing but the Zimmerman Blues.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:05 AM

And the point to this what exactly, I meqn apart from listening to some old traddie moan about how bad things have gotten ("why when I was a young lad etc, etc")

Mind you Ewan McColl has the same effect on me, except I fall asleep.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:10 AM

I've seen it done at open mics and such where it was obvious that if everyone was going to get a chance the one or two songs alotted to each performer would have to be of reasonable length. But there are those who, once they get in the spotlight, just don't want to give it up so they make sure they pick the longest song in their repertoire with plenty of long intrumental breaks. It's very annoying especially with the person running the evening's entertainment doesn't realize that they need to manage the evening and let performers who have run over their limit know it.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Bill D
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:21 AM

"...am I just a grumpy old traddie? "

Not at a 'Dylan night', you ain't. Traddie, that is.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:24 AM

Isn't "Idiot Wind" among Bob's longer efforts ( brilliant song by the way) so I'm surprised that your man didn't mention that one as well?

True - 7 minutes on the album, 9 minutes on /Blood on the Tapes/ - but nobody does it (or not that I've ever heard).

And the point to this what exactly

As I said earlier on, the OP is just me ranting on about an unsatisfactory night I had; Blowing Smoke, as they say. It wasn't meant to raise any broader issues about FCs or the Nature of Folk. I mean, I was tired, I had indigestion, the beer I was drinking was a bit young - lots of people there probably had a great night.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:30 AM

No Pip - you aren't a grumpy old traddie. Your post, quite rightly, is about the inconsiderateness of some performers, and perhaps about the lack of skill of some MCs.

As I said before, all performers - even paid guests - should bear in mind that what counts on these occasions is the occasion as a whole. We're all part of an event, and we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:32 AM

"As I said before, all performers - even paid guests - should bear in mind that what counts on these occasions is the occasion as a whole. We're all part of an event, and we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it."

Hear! Hear!

Best wishes,

Peter


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:48 AM

Been there: 1 song each or three minutes. And some tone deaf old fart starts one of those trad songs where the maiden asks her mother, brother, father, sister, neighbor, sister-in-law, sister-in-law's third cousin, etc the same bloody stupid question and gets the same bloody stupid answer. Halfway through I turned to jacqui and said "Just kill me now. I'm begging you" loud enough to be heard.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:52 AM

I recognise Pip's frustration. The Club is run by Jo who is a good singer-songwriter who rarely sings. His basic policy is to let everyone sing who wants to. As a result the Club is always full of singer-songwriters and the quality is variable.

As Pip knows, because he usually comes and sings traditional songs, I run the Singaround near by. The range of quality is wide but the best are usually stunning. I guess that not everybody enjoys everybody else but because the breadth of old songs is so wide, variety is usual.

I usually play some Morris Tunes at the Dylan Night explaining that, as everybody knows, Dylan's middle name was Maurice and he collected Morris Tunes when he was in England in the 60's and used them for some his songs.

I don't fancy an evening of Dylan songs sung by people who aren't very good and although others wouldn't fancy an evening of old songs sung by people who aren't very good, old songs seem to lend themselves to us lot quite well. I guess that's why they have survived.

Cheers

L in C


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:29 PM

Pip,

Are you going along for the Leonard Cohen night?


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:32 PM

Many of us know, but no one has yet mentioned, that this is the week of Bob's birthday ~ hence the proliferation of "Dylan Nights" in late May each year.

Several years ago (I'm not sure just how many), I made my first on-stage appearance in 20+ years at a Dylan Night Open Mike, at the Kerry Irish Pub in New Orleans. The fellow who was the leader/frontman of the every-Saturday headlining trio at the time ran the show, and did a good job.

(The Kerry has continued to hold Dylan Night every year on or about the b-day, but in more recent years it has NOT been an open mike ~ the current "house band" is commissioned to perform all-Dylan material, with varying levels of competance; some of the younger kids don't really know or care about the material.)

Back to my story: There were no more than 6 or 8 of us volunteering to perform, so we each were allowed about 10-15 minutes, enough time for three or four numbers. I remember doing "Lot to Laugh, Train to Cry," "When I Paint My Masterpiece," "Mama You Been On My Mind," and maybe even one more. What I really remember is being joined onstage by two really excellent players, entirely unexpectedly and unrehearsed: a bass player who's an old friend and former bandmate of my drummer brother, and the house-band trio's fiddler. We killed!

I don't have real clear memories of the other performers, but the whole night went really well, with no one overstaying their welcome or exhibiting total incompetence.

So, you see, "Dylan Night" doesn't have to be a catastrophe!


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:37 PM

We went to The Lowry in Salford to see a collection of Fairportish people do an Evening of Dylan. I found it a great disappointment - but perhaps that was me. I rather suspect an Evening of Cohen Songs might be be better without LC?

Cheers

L in C


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:38 PM

Come to think of it, the fact that Dylan used some old tunes says quite a bit about old tunes?

L in C


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:55 PM

"Was that a bloody awful evening or am I just a grumpy old traddie? "

With only one side of the story, I would have to vote "grumpy old traddie".


"we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it"

Agreed - and we've only heard from one participant in this event. As these Dylan Nights are proving popular, someone must be enjoying it.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Cllr
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:01 PM

thank you for the entertaining thread pip silver lining in the cloud

cllr


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:20 PM

Next time segue into and out of Nottamun Town from Masters of War.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:05 PM

Come to think of it, the fact that Dylan used some old tunes says quite a bit about old tunes?

Should have mentioned, somebody did Percy's Song, which I hadn't heard before & had me doing a couple of double-takes (it's basically a rewrite of The Wind and the Rain - And the only tune my guitar would play...). Did it rather well, too. (Quite a lot of verses though.)

Les - you didn't miss much; not as good as Dylan Night #2, and that wasn't as good as #1. I remember #2 being a bit sparsely attended, so I expected great things when the place started filling up - #1 was rammed and the atmosphere was wild. But last night didn't really take off, or not from where I was sitting.

Cheers, Ron. Love you lots.

Acorn4 - Cohen night? PM me pronto.


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Subject: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:13 PM

One more thing - could a mod change the thread title before I get myself barred from the club? I wasn't saying it was a rubbish night, just that I had a rubbish night, but in the cold light of day - and up above the line - it does look a bit provocative.


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Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:18 PM

Unclench your cheeks Pip!   You DID say it was a rubbish night! I never said you were wrong to feel the way you do. I would have been bored silly myself. It would be interesting to hear the take of others who were there - especially in the audience - and also to wonder why these nights seem popular.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:26 PM

....or...the Nick Drake night!


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:32 PM

Of course our "folk" clubs operate far differently from the kind in the UK, but one of the most popular evenings around here are the Phil Ochs Song Nights, put together by Phil's sister Sonny. All the performers cover at least one of Phil's songs and then do one of their own so that the audience gets a varied evening and exposure to new artists.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:36 PM

Thinking back, we did have a 'Canadian' night, where some people brought Leonard's songs (Sisters of Mercy, Suzanne and er... This was before Simon Cowell got his mitts on Hallelujah, so I think people still thought that one was untouchable). But Canada gives you Joni Mitchell and Neil Young as well, so we were a bit spoilt for choice. I did "Don't Let It Bring You Down".


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:23 PM

I have tried Playing Dylans Oxford Town.
                           In regards to
                           Me and my girl,
                           My girls Son.
                           We got hit with a Tear Gas Bomb Etc.

The song is off the :Free Wheeling Albam but it dont sound right In D? Can anyone confirm if this track is done in open tuning in D?
Regards Pierre.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Gulliver
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:05 PM

I'm with Jim Dixon. What a whinger is Pip - got nothing better to do?


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:58 AM

I don't know about you, Gulliver, but I never go to bed straight after I get home from a sing - I always need time to 'come down' (or in some cases to come back up). Usually I spend that time reading blogs or Mudcat; the other night I spent it writing a rant about what a miserable evening I'd just had.

So no, I didn't have anything better to do.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:52 AM

Gulliver says:

I'm with Jim Dixon. What a whinger is Pip - got nothing better to do?

Sorry, but you're not with Jim Dixon. He was bemoaning the lack of Folk Clubs in the USA. You are in Ireland. Pip started this as a BS rant but the powers that be chose to put it above the line and change the thread name. Most people never go to bed straight after they get home. And you Gulliver are a tosser.

Thank you


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:16 AM

is about the inconsiderateness of some performers, and perhaps about the lack of skill of some MCs.

I (mostly as an observer but have stood in as MC a couple of times in the past. and it's all been a while back now - mostly I go to Irish tune sessions these days) think it can be difficult.

Some will try to time their arrival with their spot. At 9pm, you are filling in time because there are only 2 floor singers who will only do 3 each. Come 9:30, you find several who will tell you the reason you are now pushed for time is that you went on for too long. The ability to see into the future to know which of the possibles will turn up would be useful.

Having explained that regardless of reason, you are still pushed for time and ask to drop to 2 songs each, you come across the stage occupancy ones. These seem to have the minimum length of time they should be up there worked out. One way or other they will get 3 "normal length" song worth of time in.

Then there is the guest night. Everyone might arrive early this time but this is the night where even those you have not seen in a few weeks turn up with guitars and express surprise that it is a guest night.

Of course the club wants and needs floor singers and is grateful for them but at times, it can get frustrating.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:42 PM

Interesting thread! On 25th April Jeff Henry and I (as Zimmermen) did a 'Dylan Night' at our local folk club - The organiser had heard us 'dabbling' at a New Year party and asked us to do a Dylan feature night.

Unlike 'The Dylan Project' we didn't try to do a series of Dylan impressions - We reworked many of the songs and rehearsed the whole thing to the limit. We printed song sheets with an explanation about how the evening had come about.

We had an audience of over 100 and we are still getting people come up and say what a great night they'd had.

So much appreciation that we've been approached about doing more gigs AND having a regular repeat around the end of May each year to celebrate Bob's birthday

The potential series of 'birthday gigs' has already been labelled 'Zimmerfest'


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:56 PM

Thank you for telling us how wonderful you are, Geordie-Peorgie


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:43 PM

First (GUEST) - I think I am addressing Gargoyle - have you still got piles? If not, I hope you do.

Second, GP - I absolutely agree, the point about "folk" is to take the music into the community in your way. If the community adopts it, then it is folk music.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Beer
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:10 PM

Hi Pip,
Have enjoy reading your comments and those of others very much
I have a few to make as well.
One, I blame the M/C. as Will Fly mentioned above. The m/c must control the musicians. Last month I attended a coffee house about an hour from home (nuts to drive all that way to do three songs.)and did my three songs only to have the next group come up and do 5 numbers when everyone was told three was the limit. Another gathering I go to the m/c will let someone who is obviously better than everyone else do 4 or 5 instead of three. "Now is this fair". I very often tell the audience that I will do only two numbers instead of three because one of the tunes is a long ballad. What the f.... is the matter with musicians. Sometimes I think it boils down to "I love me, who do you love" attitude.
Beer (adrien)


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:17 AM

Fair play to the MC, though - if you have specifically asked performers not to do a specific song, what are you supposed to do when someone sits down and launches into it?


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:45 AM

Curse quietly under your breath.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Darowyn
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:59 AM

I have MC'd in band battles in Rock venues, and have been quite happy to take a very interventionist approach. If a band has been allotted fifteen minutes, and that has been used up by two songs, I have had no inhibitions in walking onto the stage and interrupting the announcement of a third song to announce that the audience will be able to hear that one on another date, because the next band due onstage is made up of people who are much bigger and more violent.
This approach works irrespective of the fact that it may be a tiny solo performer coming on next. The usual response from the audience was wild applause and laughter.
When I'd done that a couple of times, other bands kept very much to time.
People only keep to the rules when they know that they will be applied.
Would I have stopped someone who started on "Desolation Row"?- yes, with a joke, and a question about which song they were really going to play- since everyone knows that DR was excluded.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:23 AM

I suppose every venue is different but I think your approach in the folk clubs I've known would (in time, if not on the first occasion) loose you the floor singers, eventually killing the club.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:58 AM

Jon - I expect that is why some MCs don't intervene in the way Dave describes, but I'm not sure it would have that effect. Or rather, I think the more laid-back MCs probably alienate just as many floor-singers, just not in the same way.

With a bit of distance, I can say that last Thursday was almost a pretty good night - the renderings of One Too Many Mornings, Hattie Carroll and Highway 61 were all excellent, as were Mississippi, Buckets of Rain, Show You My Love, My Back Pages, Don't Think Twice, Lay Lady Lay and Percy's Song, and there were only a couple of really poor performances and a couple of really inappropriate choices. It just shows how a few duff performances can sour the taste of an evening (particularly a long evening).


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:12 AM

Phil,

I think an excellent antidote would be The Beginners Tune Session at The Beech, Chorlton, which will kick off in around 5 hours. This will also be a chance to knock some tunes together to play for dancing on Tuesday 30 June at the end of the Bollin Morris Evening of Dance around Chorlton Green

Cheer

L in C


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Gedi
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:51 AM

Thanks for the post Pip, it has opened an interesting debate I think.

One thing that has not been mentioned over-much is that fact that this club always starts quite late, at around 9:45 normally. Surely a very simple way of getting more people on, or not going into the small hours, is to start at a more sensible time. OK, 8pm might be a little early for some, but 8:30, or even 9:00 would give quite a bit more time to get more music in.

One of the reasons I have stopped going regularly to this club is because it always goes on so late and I have work to get up for in the morning.

As far as people singing songs which have been specifically 'banned', I would take the view that that person would not get the opportunity to sing again for the next couple of club nights. Ok, might seem harsh but what's the point in asking people not to do a particular song if they just ignore you.

cheers
Ged


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:28 AM

Sorry:

The Beginners Tune Session at The Beech, Chorlton, which will kick off in around 6 + a bit hours.

L in C


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:38 AM

That's one of the main reasons I rarely go either, Ged. It's simply too late a start for us workin' stiffs, especially as my young'un doesn't know the meaning of "Please let daddy stay in bed. He had a very late night and has a bit of a hangover"...

I do think - especially as the number of performers and the "anyone can have a go" culture means a night of widely variable quality and content, that the MC might want to think of imposing strict time limits on individual performances to guard against grandstanding, limelight hogging and covers of Desolation Row. We do that at my writer's group (impose a strict time limit, that is, not sing songs) and it seems to work.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 01:51 PM

hi does anyone know a phil edwards that was a drummer back in the 60s/70s, came from manchester, his dad was editor (i think) with the manchester evening news in the late 60s and 70s , phil played drums for P.j.proby, and Gene Pitney , would be very interested if any one has any news   many thanks   lynn


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM

Come on, own up Phil - is that you?


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 02:48 PM

hi if any one does know a phil edwards from manchester   this is my email address would be glad to hear    lynnware27@btinternet.com many thanks   lynn


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 03:10 PM

Nowt to do with me, I'm afraid. I came to Manchester in the 80s & haven't got any ancestry in the area - unless you count my paternal grandmother, who was born a Fairclough & was presumably a Lancashire lass.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 04:15 AM

Last year the acoustic music club I sing at in Mainz, Germany, organised a Dylan evening with participating musos restricted to club members. Furthermore, to avoid overlaps such as 5 renditions of "Mr. Tambourine Man" etc. one had to sign up before the evening and indicate what you intended to sing, a process which produced a well organised evening. What amused me was that , with enough guitars around to open a music store, I got up and sang "North Country Blues".....a cappella. You could have heard a pin drop!(solo a cappella is almost unknown in Germany- but the audience really liked it). A good evening because all the participants, including the various 'scratch' groups, had practised beforehand and the signing-up process meant that the programme was an interesting cross-section of Dylan's creativity.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 08:42 AM

For what it's worth, I went back for the 2013 Dylan Night and did Mr Tambourine Man again, this time accompanied by concertina. (I've still never done Idiot Wind.) For various reasons it didn't go quite as well as I'd hoped, but - having taken up the box after many years as an unaccompanied singer - it was nice to bring it to the club where I started out.


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Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM

Did anyone volunteer to sing "Wiggle, Wiggle"?


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