Dylan night

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM

Did anyone volunteer to sing "Wiggle, Wiggle"?

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 08:42 AM

For what it's worth, I went back for the 2013 Dylan Night and did Mr Tambourine Man again, this time accompanied by concertina. (I've still never done Idiot Wind.) For various reasons it didn't go quite as well as I'd hoped, but - having taken up the box after many years as an unaccompanied singer - it was nice to bring it to the club where I started out.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 04:15 AM

Last year the acoustic music club I sing at in Mainz, Germany, organised a Dylan evening with participating musos restricted to club members. Furthermore, to avoid overlaps such as 5 renditions of "Mr. Tambourine Man" etc. one had to sign up before the evening and indicate what you intended to sing, a process which produced a well organised evening. What amused me was that , with enough guitars around to open a music store, I got up and sang "North Country Blues".....a cappella. You could have heard a pin drop!(solo a cappella is almost unknown in Germany- but the audience really liked it). A good evening because all the participants, including the various 'scratch' groups, had practised beforehand and the signing-up process meant that the programme was an interesting cross-section of Dylan's creativity.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 03:10 PM

Nowt to do with me, I'm afraid. I came to Manchester in the 80s & haven't got any ancestry in the area - unless you count my paternal grandmother, who was born a Fairclough & was presumably a Lancashire lass.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 02:48 PM

hi if any one does know a phil edwards from manchester   this is my email address would be glad to hear    [e-mail] many thanks   lynn

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM

Come on, own up Phil - is that you?

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 01:51 PM

hi does anyone know a phil edwards that was a drummer back in the 60s/70s, came from manchester, his dad was editor (i think) with the manchester evening news in the late 60s and 70s , phil played drums for P.j.proby, and Gene Pitney , would be very interested if any one has any news   many thanks   lynn

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:38 AM

That's one of the main reasons I rarely go either, Ged. It's simply too late a start for us workin' stiffs, especially as my young'un doesn't know the meaning of "Please let daddy stay in bed. He had a very late night and has a bit of a hangover"...

I do think - especially as the number of performers and the "anyone can have a go" culture means a night of widely variable quality and content, that the MC might want to think of imposing strict time limits on individual performances to guard against grandstanding, limelight hogging and covers of Desolation Row. We do that at my writer's group (impose a strict time limit, that is, not sing songs) and it seems to work.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:28 AM

Sorry:

The Beginners Tune Session at The Beech, Chorlton, which will kick off in around 6 + a bit hours.

L in C

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Gedi
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:51 AM

Thanks for the post Pip, it has opened an interesting debate I think.

One thing that has not been mentioned over-much is that fact that this club always starts quite late, at around 9:45 normally. Surely a very simple way of getting more people on, or not going into the small hours, is to start at a more sensible time. OK, 8pm might be a little early for some, but 8:30, or even 9:00 would give quite a bit more time to get more music in.

One of the reasons I have stopped going regularly to this club is because it always goes on so late and I have work to get up for in the morning.

As far as people singing songs which have been specifically 'banned', I would take the view that that person would not get the opportunity to sing again for the next couple of club nights. Ok, might seem harsh but what's the point in asking people not to do a particular song if they just ignore you.

cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:12 AM

Phil,

I think an excellent antidote would be The Beginners Tune Session at The Beech, Chorlton, which will kick off in around 5 hours. This will also be a chance to knock some tunes together to play for dancing on Tuesday 30 June at the end of the Bollin Morris Evening of Dance around Chorlton Green

Cheer

L in C

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:58 AM

Jon - I expect that is why some MCs don't intervene in the way Dave describes, but I'm not sure it would have that effect. Or rather, I think the more laid-back MCs probably alienate just as many floor-singers, just not in the same way.

With a bit of distance, I can say that last Thursday was almost a pretty good night - the renderings of One Too Many Mornings, Hattie Carroll and Highway 61 were all excellent, as were Mississippi, Buckets of Rain, Show You My Love, My Back Pages, Don't Think Twice, Lay Lady Lay and Percy's Song, and there were only a couple of really poor performances and a couple of really inappropriate choices. It just shows how a few duff performances can sour the taste of an evening (particularly a long evening).

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 09 - 05:23 AM

I suppose every venue is different but I think your approach in the folk clubs I've known would (in time, if not on the first occasion) loose you the floor singers, eventually killing the club.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Darowyn
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:59 AM

I have MC'd in band battles in Rock venues, and have been quite happy to take a very interventionist approach. If a band has been allotted fifteen minutes, and that has been used up by two songs, I have had no inhibitions in walking onto the stage and interrupting the announcement of a third song to announce that the audience will be able to hear that one on another date, because the next band due onstage is made up of people who are much bigger and more violent.
This approach works irrespective of the fact that it may be a tiny solo performer coming on next. The usual response from the audience was wild applause and laughter.
When I'd done that a couple of times, other bands kept very much to time.
People only keep to the rules when they know that they will be applied.
Would I have stopped someone who started on "Desolation Row"?- yes, with a joke, and a question about which song they were really going to play- since everyone knows that DR was excluded.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:45 AM

Curse quietly under your breath.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 May 09 - 04:17 AM

Fair play to the MC, though - if you have specifically asked performers not to do a specific song, what are you supposed to do when someone sits down and launches into it?

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Beer
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:10 PM

Hi Pip,
Have enjoy reading your comments and those of others very much
I have a few to make as well.
One, I blame the M/C. as Will Fly mentioned above. The m/c must control the musicians. Last month I attended a coffee house about an hour from home (nuts to drive all that way to do three songs.)and did my three songs only to have the next group come up and do 5 numbers when everyone was told three was the limit. Another gathering I go to the m/c will let someone who is obviously better than everyone else do 4 or 5 instead of three. "Now is this fair". I very often tell the audience that I will do only two numbers instead of three because one of the tunes is a long ballad. What the f.... is the matter with musicians. Sometimes I think it boils down to "I love me, who do you love" attitude.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:43 PM

First (GUEST) - I think I am addressing Gargoyle - have you still got piles? If not, I hope you do.

Second, GP - I absolutely agree, the point about "folk" is to take the music into the community in your way. If the community adopts it, then it is folk music.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:56 PM

Thank you for telling us how wonderful you are, Geordie-Peorgie

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:42 PM

Interesting thread! On 25th April Jeff Henry and I (as Zimmermen) did a 'Dylan Night' at our local folk club - The organiser had heard us 'dabbling' at a New Year party and asked us to do a Dylan feature night.

Unlike 'The Dylan Project' we didn't try to do a series of Dylan impressions - We reworked many of the songs and rehearsed the whole thing to the limit. We printed song sheets with an explanation about how the evening had come about.

We had an audience of over 100 and we are still getting people come up and say what a great night they'd had.

So much appreciation that we've been approached about doing more gigs AND having a regular repeat around the end of May each year to celebrate Bob's birthday

The potential series of 'birthday gigs' has already been labelled 'Zimmerfest'

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:16 AM

is about the inconsiderateness of some performers, and perhaps about the lack of skill of some MCs.

I (mostly as an observer but have stood in as MC a couple of times in the past. and it's all been a while back now - mostly I go to Irish tune sessions these days) think it can be difficult.

Some will try to time their arrival with their spot. At 9pm, you are filling in time because there are only 2 floor singers who will only do 3 each. Come 9:30, you find several who will tell you the reason you are now pushed for time is that you went on for too long. The ability to see into the future to know which of the possibles will turn up would be useful.

Having explained that regardless of reason, you are still pushed for time and ask to drop to 2 songs each, you come across the stage occupancy ones. These seem to have the minimum length of time they should be up there worked out. One way or other they will get 3 "normal length" song worth of time in.

Then there is the guest night. Everyone might arrive early this time but this is the night where even those you have not seen in a few weeks turn up with guitars and express surprise that it is a guest night.

Of course the club wants and needs floor singers and is grateful for them but at times, it can get frustrating.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 09 - 06:52 AM

Gulliver says:

I'm with Jim Dixon. What a whinger is Pip - got nothing better to do?

Sorry, but you're not with Jim Dixon. He was bemoaning the lack of Folk Clubs in the USA. You are in Ireland. Pip started this as a BS rant but the powers that be chose to put it above the line and change the thread name. Most people never go to bed straight after they get home. And you Gulliver are a tosser.

Thank you

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:58 AM

I don't know about you, Gulliver, but I never go to bed straight after I get home from a sing - I always need time to 'come down' (or in some cases to come back up). Usually I spend that time reading blogs or Mudcat; the other night I spent it writing a rant about what a miserable evening I'd just had.

So no, I didn't have anything better to do.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Gulliver
Date: 22 May 09 - 08:05 PM

I'm with Jim Dixon. What a whinger is Pip - got nothing better to do?

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:23 PM

I have tried Playing Dylans Oxford Town.
                           In regards to
                           Me and my girl,
                           My girls Son.
                           We got hit with a Tear Gas Bomb Etc.

The song is off the :Free Wheeling Albam but it dont sound right In D? Can anyone confirm if this track is done in open tuning in D?
Regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:36 PM

Thinking back, we did have a 'Canadian' night, where some people brought Leonard's songs (Sisters of Mercy, Suzanne and er... This was before Simon Cowell got his mitts on Hallelujah, so I think people still thought that one was untouchable). But Canada gives you Joni Mitchell and Neil Young as well, so we were a bit spoilt for choice. I did "Don't Let It Bring You Down".

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:32 PM

Of course our "folk" clubs operate far differently from the kind in the UK, but one of the most popular evenings around here are the Phil Ochs Song Nights, put together by Phil's sister Sonny. All the performers cover at least one of Phil's songs and then do one of their own so that the audience gets a varied evening and exposure to new artists.

Subject: RE: Dylan night
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:26 PM

....or...the Nick Drake night!

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:18 PM

Unclench your cheeks Pip!   You DID say it was a rubbish night! I never said you were wrong to feel the way you do. I would have been bored silly myself. It would be interesting to hear the take of others who were there - especially in the audience - and also to wonder why these nights seem popular.

Subject: Dylan night
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:13 PM

One more thing - could a mod change the thread title before I get myself barred from the club? I wasn't saying it was a rubbish night, just that I had a rubbish night, but in the cold light of day - and up above the line - it does look a bit provocative.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 02:05 PM

Come to think of it, the fact that Dylan used some old tunes says quite a bit about old tunes?

Should have mentioned, somebody did Percy's Song, which I hadn't heard before & had me doing a couple of double-takes (it's basically a rewrite of The Wind and the Rain - And the only tune my guitar would play...). Did it rather well, too. (Quite a lot of verses though.)

Les - you didn't miss much; not as good as Dylan Night #2, and that wasn't as good as #1. I remember #2 being a bit sparsely attended, so I expected great things when the place started filling up - #1 was rammed and the atmosphere was wild. But last night didn't really take off, or not from where I was sitting.

Cheers, Ron. Love you lots.

Acorn4 - Cohen night? PM me pronto.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:20 PM

Next time segue into and out of Nottamun Town from Masters of War.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Cllr
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:01 PM

thank you for the entertaining thread pip silver lining in the cloud

cllr

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:55 PM

"Was that a bloody awful evening or am I just a grumpy old traddie? "

With only one side of the story, I would have to vote "grumpy old traddie".


"we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it"

Agreed - and we've only heard from one participant in this event. As these Dylan Nights are proving popular, someone must be enjoying it.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:38 PM

Come to think of it, the fact that Dylan used some old tunes says quite a bit about old tunes?

L in C

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:37 PM

We went to The Lowry in Salford to see a collection of Fairportish people do an Evening of Dylan. I found it a great disappointment - but perhaps that was me. I rather suspect an Evening of Cohen Songs might be be better without LC?

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:32 PM

Many of us know, but no one has yet mentioned, that this is the week of Bob's birthday ~ hence the proliferation of "Dylan Nights" in late May each year.

Several years ago (I'm not sure just how many), I made my first on-stage appearance in 20+ years at a Dylan Night Open Mike, at the Kerry Irish Pub in New Orleans. The fellow who was the leader/frontman of the every-Saturday headlining trio at the time ran the show, and did a good job.

(The Kerry has continued to hold Dylan Night every year on or about the b-day, but in more recent years it has NOT been an open mike ~ the current "house band" is commissioned to perform all-Dylan material, with varying levels of competance; some of the younger kids don't really know or care about the material.)

Back to my story: There were no more than 6 or 8 of us volunteering to perform, so we each were allowed about 10-15 minutes, enough time for three or four numbers. I remember doing "Lot to Laugh, Train to Cry," "When I Paint My Masterpiece," "Mama You Been On My Mind," and maybe even one more. What I really remember is being joined onstage by two really excellent players, entirely unexpectedly and unrehearsed: a bass player who's an old friend and former bandmate of my drummer brother, and the house-band trio's fiddler. We killed!

I don't have real clear memories of the other performers, but the whole night went really well, with no one overstaying their welcome or exhibiting total incompetence.

So, you see, "Dylan Night" doesn't have to be a catastrophe!

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 May 09 - 12:29 PM

Pip,

Are you going along for the Leonard Cohen night?

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:52 AM

I recognise Pip's frustration. The Club is run by Jo who is a good singer-songwriter who rarely sings. His basic policy is to let everyone sing who wants to. As a result the Club is always full of singer-songwriters and the quality is variable.

As Pip knows, because he usually comes and sings traditional songs, I run the Singaround near by. The range of quality is wide but the best are usually stunning. I guess that not everybody enjoys everybody else but because the breadth of old songs is so wide, variety is usual.

I usually play some Morris Tunes at the Dylan Night explaining that, as everybody knows, Dylan's middle name was Maurice and he collected Morris Tunes when he was in England in the 60's and used them for some his songs.

I don't fancy an evening of Dylan songs sung by people who aren't very good and although others wouldn't fancy an evening of old songs sung by people who aren't very good, old songs seem to lend themselves to us lot quite well. I guess that's why they have survived.

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:48 AM

Been there: 1 song each or three minutes. And some tone deaf old fart starts one of those trad songs where the maiden asks her mother, brother, father, sister, neighbor, sister-in-law, sister-in-law's third cousin, etc the same bloody stupid question and gets the same bloody stupid answer. Halfway through I turned to jacqui and said "Just kill me now. I'm begging you" loud enough to be heard.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:32 AM

"As I said before, all performers - even paid guests - should bear in mind that what counts on these occasions is the occasion as a whole. We're all part of an event, and we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it."

Hear! Hear!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:30 AM

No Pip - you aren't a grumpy old traddie. Your post, quite rightly, is about the inconsiderateness of some performers, and perhaps about the lack of skill of some MCs.

As I said before, all performers - even paid guests - should bear in mind that what counts on these occasions is the occasion as a whole. We're all part of an event, and we should want the participants and audience to that event to go away feeling that it's all been worth it.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:24 AM

Isn't "Idiot Wind" among Bob's longer efforts ( brilliant song by the way) so I'm surprised that your man didn't mention that one as well?

True - 7 minutes on the album, 9 minutes on /Blood on the Tapes/ - but nobody does it (or not that I've ever heard).

And the point to this what exactly

As I said earlier on, the OP is just me ranting on about an unsatisfactory night I had; Blowing Smoke, as they say. It wasn't meant to raise any broader issues about FCs or the Nature of Folk. I mean, I was tired, I had indigestion, the beer I was drinking was a bit young - lots of people there probably had a great night.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Bill D
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:21 AM

"...am I just a grumpy old traddie? "

Not at a 'Dylan night', you ain't. Traddie, that is. ☺

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:10 AM

I've seen it done at open mics and such where it was obvious that if everyone was going to get a chance the one or two songs alotted to each performer would have to be of reasonable length. But there are those who, once they get in the spotlight, just don't want to give it up so they make sure they pick the longest song in their repertoire with plenty of long intrumental breaks. It's very annoying especially with the person running the evening's entertainment doesn't realize that they need to manage the evening and let performers who have run over their limit know it.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 22 May 09 - 11:05 AM

And the point to this what exactly, I meqn apart from listening to some old traddie moan about how bad things have gotten ("why when I was a young lad etc, etc")

Mind you Ewan McColl has the same effect on me, except I fall asleep.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: evansakes
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:41 AM

When you go to a Dylan singers night you always wind up confused and feel that you've been used.

That's what you call the Zimmerman Blues.

I know what I'd choose.

Any damn thing but the Zimmerman Blues.

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 22 May 09 - 10:39 AM

Isn't "Idiot Wind" among Bob's longer efforts ( brilliant song by the way) so I'm surprised that your man didn't mention that one as well?
"I'll Remember You" wasn't that from "Empire Burlesque"?, not one of his better albums - possibly why nobody knew it.
I'd love to go to a Dylan night just to see what it would be like, but they don't have them round our way:-(

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk clu
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:33 AM

Second try - I clicked on refresh

It brings to mind a night many years ago of a club I used to co-organise.

It was a guest night. MC arrived 30 minutes late, then spent more than 20 minutes tuning his guitar on stage, and went into a long spot.

when it got to my spot treasurer asked if I could keep it short as the club was running late. I did the shortest song in my repertoire - less than 20 seconds.

Guest did a shortened sport before the interval. Interval over-ran before the MC got started again, more guitar problems and another long spot. The guest did about 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

As the club treasurer I had to bite my lip to avoid suggesting to the guest that as he had only done half the work (he was booked for 2 x 30 minute sets, he should only take half the booking fee (not really, but it is a thought...)

Subject: RE: A rubbish night out (Dylan night at a folk club)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:28 AM

it's BS because the OP is just me ranting on

Apparently I've been overruled. Never mind.