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Kate Rusby - 'My Music'

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Lizzie Cornish 1 27 May 09 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,van lingle 27 May 09 - 04:20 PM
Georgiansilver 27 May 09 - 04:40 PM
Peter the Squeezer 27 May 09 - 04:56 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 May 09 - 05:12 PM
TonyA 27 May 09 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,van lingle 27 May 09 - 07:35 PM
olddude 27 May 09 - 08:04 PM
Nick 27 May 09 - 08:24 PM
Guy Wolff 27 May 09 - 09:25 PM
irishenglish 27 May 09 - 09:41 PM
Lox 27 May 09 - 09:45 PM
SteveMansfield 28 May 09 - 03:27 AM
Smedley 28 May 09 - 05:16 AM
michaelr 28 May 09 - 10:04 PM
The Borchester Echo 29 May 09 - 01:22 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 29 May 09 - 03:14 AM
nager 29 May 09 - 04:00 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 29 May 09 - 03:57 PM
r.padgett 30 May 09 - 02:03 AM
The Borchester Echo 30 May 09 - 03:18 AM
nager 30 May 09 - 03:52 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 30 May 09 - 04:37 AM
nager 30 May 09 - 07:23 PM
Reinhard 31 May 09 - 01:13 AM
The Borchester Echo 31 May 09 - 05:28 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 May 09 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 May 09 - 07:58 AM
r.padgett 31 May 09 - 08:20 AM
The Borchester Echo 31 May 09 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 May 09 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Silas 31 May 09 - 08:38 AM
GUEST,Silas 31 May 09 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 May 09 - 08:46 AM
The Sandman 31 May 09 - 08:52 AM
The Sandman 31 May 09 - 09:39 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 May 09 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 May 09 - 09:49 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 May 09 - 10:05 AM
Ruth Archer 31 May 09 - 10:12 AM
The Sandman 31 May 09 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) 31 May 09 - 11:31 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 May 09 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,Silas 31 May 09 - 12:04 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 May 09 - 12:08 PM
Ruth Archer 31 May 09 - 12:12 PM
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Subject: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:24 AM

OK, it's a few years old now, but for those who've never seen it, Kate's documentary is out there on Youtube:

"She's managed to take the best of traditional songmaking and make it her own, to take it forward, and to take it to people who've never heard folk music....."

"Kate Rusby's voice is a thing of pure beauty...She's an utterly beguiling performer."


Here's the first part, the others are easy to find in the right hand list on the page there:

Kate's 'My Music' - Part 1


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:20 PM

Thanks, Lizzie. Made my day.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:40 PM

I guess my favourite Kate song is "The Wild Goose" but I just love all her stuff... she has the voice, the music and the coveted 'presence'.
Best wishes and Thanks Lizzie, Mike.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:56 PM

Brilliant

I'm beginning to wonder whether Kate's version of "Who knows where the time goes" is better than Sandy's.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:12 PM

Oh yes, Peter, I agree! I love them both, but Kate's just has the edge for me..

Glad you're enjoying Kate, Mike and van lingle. :0)

Every time I see her on TV, I'm transported back to the last ever Sidmouth International Folk Festival, sitting on that hillside, literally 'Underneath the Stars' as Kate closed the show...holding near on 5,000 people totally spellbound with her music and her charm. That was such an emotional night.

Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Kate

Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Sandy


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: TonyA
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:59 PM

Kate Rusby always makes any song sound better to me. She even makes me like songs I never liked before.

Thanks so much for the link to the documentary, Lizzie. The part about her family being her record company, booking agent, sound engineer, and business manager is delightful!


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 27 May 09 - 07:35 PM

Hard to choose on "Who Knows Where the Time Goes", but if you get a chance check out Eilis Kennedy doing it on "Time To Sail".


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: olddude
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:04 PM

Lizzie
absolutely incredible thank you


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Nick
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:24 PM

For me, absolutely not.

But it's silly to compare isn't it. They are both excellent singers and it's a lovely song.

Is there a better version of Joni Mitchell's 'A Case of You'?

Are covers better than originals?

When I heard 'Fire and Rain' by James Taylor I found it hard to think how you could do it better/different. Until I heard Richie Havens sing it. Then I wondered for a while which was better. Now I enjoy both but perhaps tilt the balance towards the original.

There is a quality to Sandy Denny's voice and delivery that is very special on some of her songs for me and this is one of them. I could tell you exactly the moments. A fragile floating beautiful quality. Listen how she sings the words 'sky' 'leaving' and 'go' in the first line or so (eg as the word 'go' trails off).

Or 'leaving' and 'ah' and 'but' in the second verse (or 'thought of leaving')

Beautiful singing.

And Richard Thompsons not bad. And the drumming in the third verse is excellent.

I could go on. You can probably tell it's a favourite.

And it reminds me of summer evenings looking at the sky at Cropredy. For me her voice floats and flies with the birds that she sings about.

But the Kate Rusby version is very nice too and different enough.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:25 PM

Hello Lizzie C

Thanks for the YT links . I do love Kate's music and her take on making music from the place she comes from .. There is an inner strength that comes from knowing the rocks under your feet and the trees and hills around you . I would like to hear her mom sing some more and the two of them together.. Warmest regards , GUy


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: irishenglish
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:41 PM

I'm a big fan of Kate, but her Who Knows is ok, but for me no ones, not Kate, or Eva Cassidy, or Susanna Hoffs,or Judy Collins, or Kellie and Chris While, or Vikki Clayton, or anyone else can ever match Sandy singing it. Lets not forget the Unhalfbricking version wasn't even Sandy's first recording of it, but Martin Lamble's subtle drumming and Hutchings bass line counterpoint still remain with me. Now, virtually anything else Kate has done.....a definite highpoint for sure. I agree with Nick though, both excellent singers, etc.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:45 PM

Very nice. My first taste of Kate.

I'll be coming back for another helping.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 28 May 09 - 03:27 AM

I'm transported back to the last ever Sidmouth International Folk Festival, sitting on that hillside, literally 'Underneath the Stars' as Kate closed the show...holding near on 5,000 people totally spellbound with her music and her charm. That was such an emotional night.

I was there that night, and it was indeed a fine and special concert, probably my favourite of all the KR shows I've seen - but the emotional effect of 'Underneath The Stars', with the brass (which makes it so very special), was just as strong in the comparatively antiseptic setting of The Lowry theatre in Salford a year or two later ...


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Smedley
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:16 AM

Sandy Denny's version is unbeatable, in my opinion. Although I wish Kathryn Williams would record it.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: michaelr
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:04 PM

Thanks, Lizzie, a great program. After watching this, I can understand KR's detractors even less than before. I mean, her voice may not be to everyone's taste, but the music is always top-notch, and how can you not love that charming personality? Plus the admirable way in which she's taken control of her career, with her family all pitching in, and making records on her own homespun label.

Three cheers to Kate, carry on, you're doing great.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 09 - 01:22 AM

This poorly-made C5 film was received with approbrium at the time of transmission when it allowed Ms kRusby senior to spout sloppy attribution of The Recruited Collier on air.

Far from being "a Yorkshire song about miners" and thus by false association "appropriate to Barnsley", it is merely a Bert Lloyd industrialised rehash of a Cumbrian poem Jenny's Complaint about a pressganged farmworker.

Ample research on the song's origins and history has been published extensively in innumerable threads passim, here and elsewhere. The film is notable for its very nice shots of Andy Cutting but needs, otherwise, a comprehensive re-edit leaving, additionally, all the tedious shots of her screwing up in the studio on the cutting room floor.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:14 AM

There are such *lovely* comments in here.   I'm so glad you're all enjoying watching Kate. :0)

Apologies for the few drops of bitterness.




Here's her myspace page, the new one that is, as the other one 'got lost' somewhere in space, just in case anyone hasn't found it yet...

Kate's myspace


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: nager
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:00 AM

Hi Lizzie:

I haven't seen it yet but will get there tonight and take a look.
Love Kate Rusby's voice and her Live at Leeds DVD is great. Cheers, Paul in Oz.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:57 PM

Hello Paul!   :0)

I hope you're keeping well..xx


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:03 AM

You are right Recruited Collier was not a Yorkshire song as such but I do agree that all the sentiments expressed and as sung by Kate can easily apply to the Yorkshire mining industry, as it could to any other mining area of the day

The beauty of the song is in its interpretation and delivery

Recruited Collier was also sung by Fred Jordan and was one of his favourites

Ray


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:18 AM

According to Bert Lloyd the text came from J T Huxtable from Workington Cumberland. It appears in Robert Anderson's Ballads in the Cumberland Dialect (Wigton 1808). Lloyd also states in Come All Ye Bold Miners that he supplied the usual tune. Lloyd also omits the first four lines of your last verse:

For four long years I've followed him
Now I must live without him
For there's nothing left that I can do but weep and think about him
So break my heart and then it's o'er


These extra lines were added by Stephen Sedley in his book The Seeds of Love (Essex Music, 1967):

"Based on the version sung by Anne Briggs on the Topic LP The Iron Muse which in turn is closely based on the set supplied to A L Lloyd for inclusion in Come All Ye Bold Miners by J T Huxtable, a Workington collier. The final stanza has been collated with the mostly garbled text published by Robert Anderson in Ballads in the Cumberland Dialect (1808)."

[Oh dear! The now Lord Justice of Appeal failed to recognise that far from "garbled", this was the original!]

The folklorist Roy Palmer explains:

"It is clear that Lloyd's editorial approach was not merely to reproduce the material sent to him. Sometimes the changes made were small. . . but others were far-reaching. On Jimmy's Enlisted (or The Recruited Collier) Lloyd laconically notes: Text from J T Huxtable of Workington. A version of this ballad appears in R Anderson's Ballads in the Cumberland Dialect (1808). In fact, the original is entitled simply Jenny's Complaint and features not a miner who enlists but a ploughman. A third party, Nichol, talks to Jenny about the wars and Jemmy (as he is called) merely 'led' (carted) the coals which remind Jenny of him. Lloyd silently (and brilliantly) remade the song. Although one phrase, 'I'se leetin', sits uncomfortably in the new text, the adaptation has enjoyed considerable success to a tune also supplied by Lloyd to replace Nancy to the Greenwood Gane which Anderson prescribed."


Jenny's Complaint (the original poem)

O, Lass! I've fearfu' news to tell!
What thinks te's come owre Jemmy?
The sowdgers hev e'en pick'd him up
And sent him far, far frae me:
To Carel he set off wi' wheat;
Them ill reed-cwoated fellows
Suin wil'd him in, then meade him drunk--
He'd better geane to th'gallows

The varra seet o' his cockade
It set us a' a-cryin;
for me I fairly fainted tweyce,
Tou may think that was tryin:
My fadder wad ha'e paid the smart
And shew'd a gowden guinea
But lack-a-day! He'd kiss'd the buik,
and that'll e'en kill Jenny

When Nichol talks about the wars,
It's war than deeth to hear him;
I oft steal out, to hide my tears,
And cannot, cannot bear him;
For aye he jeybes, and cracks his jwokes,
and bids me nit forsake him;
A brigadier, or grandidier,
He says, they're sure to meake him.

If owre the stibble fields I gang
I think I see him ploughin,
And ev'ry bit o' bread I eat,
It seems o' Jemmy's sowin';
He led the varra cwoals we burn,
And when the fire I's leetin,
To think the peats were in his hands,
It sets my heart a beatin.

What can I de? I nought can de,
But whinge, and think about him;
For three lang years, he follow'd me
Now I mun live widout him!
Brek, heart, at yence, and then it's owre!
Life's nought widout yen's dearie!
I'll suin lig in my cauld, cauld grave,
For oh! Of life I'm weary!


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: nager
Date: 30 May 09 - 03:52 AM

Hi again Lizzie:
Watched it today and it was a lovely insight into how the family puts it all together, each with their own role to play.
Hope you too are keeping well over there in the UK summer.. spare a though for us in Newcastle NSW. It's almost winter, raining and a mere 17 deg C.
I am singing tonight at the Newcastle and Hunter Valley Folk Club as support for the Wheeze and Suck Band - might even throw in a Kate Rusby song!!
Cheers for now, Paul


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 May 09 - 04:37 AM

BEAUTIFUL, hot, sunny day over here in Sidmouth, Paul! (ooh, there's mean) ;0) Hope the gig goes well.

One of my favourties of Kate's...

'Falling'


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: nager
Date: 30 May 09 - 07:23 PM

Great song that one and also one of my favourites too. It is on one of the CDs I have of her. I had no idea there was so much Kate Rusby on Youtube. Yes, the folk club went well and I actually got an encore! Well, its still raining on and off here today - ah well it sure beats bushfires and drought! Keep well Lizzie - I am going back to Youtube. Catch up again soon.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 May 09 - 01:13 AM

Diane Easby's learnedness is an uncredited quotation from this earlier and much more comprehensive Mudcat Caf쳌«² thread about the Recruited Collier. The bold slight about the “now Lord Justice of Appeal” seems to be her own, though.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 May 09 - 05:28 AM

As I said in my earlier contribution:

Ample research on the song's origins and history has been published extensively in innumerable threads passim, here and elsewhere.

My second post was a brief précis of just some of these readily available published sources which no-one, particularly not those involved in producing this substandard C5 docco, has been arsed to peruse. The purpose of a researcher in television production is to forestall errors of attribution, not to allow the subject's mother to perpetuate them.

Stephen Sedley, author of Seeds Of Love (wherein Recruited Collier and its notes was included) when a young law student, amateur singer and writer and a near neighbour of mine, is now the Lord Justice of Appeal. Not a "bold slight" (whatever that is), simply a matter of fact.

If this thread has any purpose at all, its function ought to be one of (somewhat belated) documentary-making criticism, not of fatuous, sycophantic fan worship.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:29 AM

Tell me, Diane, why is it, the merest mention of praise is considered by you to be so sickening?

You praise George when you've seen him play. You wrote a wonderful piece, once, on Chris Wood, as I recall.

People on here love Kate's music. They are NOT fanatical 'fans' as you're trying to make out, just people who appreciate her gentle voice and character.

There is nothing wrong with praise.
There is nothing wrong with gentleness.

Life is not all about vitriol, you know.

And now, back to Kate Rusby and 'her music'

From the concert I spoke of earlier in this thread, where she sang 'Underneath the Stars'..here's Kate singing the song she wrote for her grandmother, telling the love story of her grandparents...

Kate singing 'My Young Man' at the final Sidmouth International Festival 2004

Kate's not frightened of chopping and changing traditional songs around, she readily admits that, and perhaps that's why she gets such strife from some folks in the pedantic English folk world, who demand that songs are sung the 'correct' way, 'their' way.

Kate Rusby does it 'her' way.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:58 AM

I'd agree with Diane in that a thread reviewing a video, cd, etc. should be balanced (and free speech) enough to allow criticisms as well as praise and that it might be worth pointing out factual errors, if for no other reason than to try to avoid the next dose of wrong information on Mudcat when a song thread crops up. That said, in this instance, I do disagree with Diane's overall assessment of the documentary. I think it works well.

I would however question (or answer as he phrased it as a question) michaelr's comment:

After watching this, I can understand KR's detractors even less than before. I mean, her voice may not be to everyone's taste, but the music is always top-notch, and how can you not love that charming personality?

As it happens, I do agree that KR comes over as having a "charming personality". I fail to see why that need be related to liking (or otherwise) her music. Thinking back on the few music documentaries I've seen over the last couple of years, I remember a Rolling Stones one. I really could not stand the personalities but I still find their music really good. On the other hand, I can imagine KR as being a nice person to meet but, for me, I don't find her music above a sort of competent and pleasant enough (I'd listen to her happily in a folk club) "average" - I don't understand the sort of "star status" with her.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: r.padgett
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:20 AM

Clearly I haven't a clue what you are on about!

As a Yorkshire Collector of songs I find that the song base is and should be there to let others find songs of interest and significance and to bring them to a wider audience

The primary concern and idea is to sing songs in a way that is entertaining and communicates the words and feelings through the musical arrangement

We are now in the noughties, but the old traditional songs are still truly valid

Let the pureists [and I know some!] continue with their academic discourse, yes there is a place for all of this

BUT without people singing and making up songs the song "tradition " is surely dead (I do know the difference between trad and written thank you)

The life blood is out there in the pubs and more commonly now in the folk clubs and festivals

Good luck to all of you ~ Kate and all those who are keeping the English songs alive!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:21 AM

The OP chose the thread title, namely a C5 documentary of several years ago.
It was poorly researched and perpetuated monumental errors which could very easily have been avoided by consulting readily available research (where indicated with appropriate attribution, viz the writings of Sedley and Palmer). Some of it is even available on this very site, as someone called "Reinhard" indicates.
Clearly I offer no "praise" for such shoddy research and poor-quality filmmaking.
All of which is entirely unconnected to a performance by the subject at a festival in 2004, 10 minutes of which I witnessed myself.
It has, furthermore, absolutely no bearing on the subject's approach to arrangement and composition which, as is the case with most artists in the industry, more appropriate and successful at some times than others.
And none on whether the subject is "nice" or not. Having met her briefly but once, several years ago, she seemed to be. "Nice", that is. So what, entirely irrelevant. This does nothing to raise her music above the bland R2 level for me, though this is clearly her aim and aspiration.
Choose your own platitude from boats and floating, horses and courses.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:31 AM

If asking me, Ray Pagget, "Clearly I haven't a clue what you are on about!", etc. My comment I guess you are addressing relates to missinformation on threads. It's nothing to do with purism, how the song may be adapted, or sung, but it is to do with the next person coming along looking for information on the song.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:38 AM

Well, we all seem to like different things for different reasons. Personally, I could listen to Kake all day, I think she has a stunning voice and her interpretation of trad songs is very good, but her own songs are incredible - My Young Man, Underneath the Stars etc - fantastic. Just because she is popular does not mean that she is mor.

Someone mentioned Fred Jordan. I knew (slightly) Fred, but I have to say that I could not stand hearing him sing - he always sounded to me like the parody that Peter sellers did of a folk singer.

So, lets just live and let live.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:39 AM

*Kake*!

Freudian slip there I think!


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:46 AM

To word it another way Ray. Going by what I've read here for example, if anyone asked about "The Recruited Collier", we should be answering this is AL Lloyds reworking of Jenny's Complaint about a pressganged farmworker. rather than "this is a traditional song about colliers". It's not a judgement on the later work or a suggestion that there is anything wrong with a derived work. It would merely be the factual information someone wanting info on the song might require.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEKVeI_VD3E
here is a version with accompaniment concertina


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:39 AM

Bert Lloyd,clearly wanted the song to enter into the tradition,and be sung, which it is,he did not want credit for it.
it is a beautiful song.
here we are in 2009,and owing to technology,we are in a position where we know the origins of everything,and the value of nothing.
what matters is that it is a beautiful song,it is not so important that it is allegedly a rewrite of something else,why?
because no composer is being plagarised,or deprived of royalties,while it may be useful to mention briefly,its alleged origins,what is really important is for the singer to try and do justice to the song.
I would like to thank LLoyd for passing this song into the revival.
lets get on with the singing,and stop worrying about trivialities.
sing and enjoy.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:42 AM

Here, here, Dick! Nice video too. :0)


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:49 AM

I don't really see where you are going there Captain. I think there are differences between ejoying songs and tunes and singing and playing for the enjoyment of it and the position of someone looking for information on a song. Would you for example suggest Malcolm Douglas was wrong in correcting the many (sometimes repeated) sets of wrong information here?


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:05 AM

BTW, I may have missed something but if it was my

"it might be worth pointing out factual errors, if for no other reason than to try to avoid the next dose of wrong information on Mudcat when a song thread crops up."

That sparked this off, I'm once again mystified by the powers of Mudcat. There is nothing there that suggests reworks must by wrong, that people (including me) may not like just a set of words to sing to, demands for "purity in song" etc. But the replies seem to read as if I'd suggested otherwise.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:12 AM

"I don't really see where you are going there Captain. I think there are differences between ejoying songs and tunes and singing and playing for the enjoyment of it and the position of someone looking for information on a song. Would you for example suggest Malcolm Douglas was wrong in correcting the many (sometimes repeated) sets of wrong information here?"

Agreed. Bert Lloyd's approach to "collecting" and attribution is still hotly debated, and to say it doesn't really matter so long as the song is nice muddies the waters of the argument. It's perfectly fine to enjoy a song on its own terms as a bit of entertainment, but if you're going to bother to give it an attribution, what is wrong with trying to get that attribution right?

I would like to point out, before this post is interpreted as an attack on Ms Rusby, that I know both Kate and her family, and in fact gave her last CD a very favourable review.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:05 AM

but we dont know the attribution is right, Bert Loyd is not here to defend himself , he may well have collected the song.we do not know.
how singers introduce songs when performing is entirely up to them,but the introduction to the song should never be more important than the performance.
the performance of the song is more important than anything else.
long live singers down with anoraks


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray)
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:31 AM

I must say my entire Folk Faith has taken quite a battering of late with all these revelations about hitherto cherished songs being the constructions of A.L.Lloyd et al. As a singer, provenance is so much part of the appeal for me; and a fake, no matter how pretty, is still a fake. All the more irksome when The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs was once my bible. I feel betrayed. 35 years betrayed!


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 11:49 AM

"long live singers down with anoraks"

I'm just off to get that tatooed on my chest, Dick! :0)

Love it!


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:04 PM

"long live singers down with anoraks"

I'm just off to get that tatooed on my on my dick, chest.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:08 PM

Ooh, you're a brave man! ;0)


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:12 PM

"but we dont know the attribution is right, Bert Loyd is not here to defend himself, he may well have collected the song.we do not know."

There has been enough research after AL Lloyd's death to cast doubt on a number of his "attributions" - it's not just The Recruited Collier. And it is disappointing because it undermines his body of work, much of which has been of huge benefit to the revival.

"long live singers down with anoraks"

As a singer, I'd like to thank you for this vote of confidence.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:16 PM

all traditional songs were written by somebody,they have often been added to by anonymous improvers[Over a period of time],yet no one calls them fakes,if a song is well written and has a good melody,and sounds traditional,I will sing it,if it was written by Ewan Maccollor any other traditional style songwriter,or is anon,or is anon altered by Lloyd,that will not stop me from singing it.
the tradition is an ongoing process,people have always altered old songs,I am sure Bert LLoyd wanted people primarily to sing the songs,he realised that the tradition was not something to be frozen,if he did what has been alleged[and this is yet to be proven[as far as I am concerned],how is that any different from all the other alterations to traditional songs[such as the addition of the Parrot in the outlandish Knight],or the Bob Roberts version of Gamekeepers lie Sleeping.
songs and stories will always be altered either accidentally or deliberately,we as singers, have the luxury to choose which version we wish to sing.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:24 PM

Hey some of you guys, get real, Who's betrayed you, why did you buy something not for sale. If you enjoyed the song, still enjoy it. Chaucer, Shakespeare and many others based their works on unattributed bversions of oyhers. Its good that scholars can unearth the genesis and development of some storylines, but it makes absolutelym no difference to the quality of anything that Chaucer, Shakespeare, or bert LLoyd did.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:25 PM

BTW, Kate Rusby is a wonderful singer and personality, get off her case and enjoy her wonderful singing and real attachment to a local tradition that she, unlike many above, has lived with all her life, lucky girl.


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Subject: RE: Kate Rusby - 'My Music'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:29 PM

As far as I understand it, those who feel betrayal are feeling it on finding/believing something that was reported as traditional at least probably isn't. It doesn't read to me to be a question of the quality of the some but about whether the truth was told about its origins.


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