Folk Against Fascism

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: fairplay
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:47 PM

Ruth

Then why use Bragg as an icon on your Youtube site?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:39 PM

Violence against the BNP brings us down to their level - so I removed posts from the FAF facebook page which celebrated the egging of Nick Griffin. I don't see such acts as particularly constructive or helpful.

Of course, this rational approach has not stopped members of the BNP hijacking the internet identities of me and several other members of the group, and sending us nasty personal messages. These are the actions of bullyboys and thugs.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Dave Earl
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:32 PM

This subscriber to FAF does not support violence from any quarter.

Which side of the fence is Fairplay sat?

dave

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: fairplay
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:22 PM

Does the FAF disassociate itself from those who advocate violence against the BNP?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:11 PM

Cin cin, darling.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:05 PM


Not sure that any of this is much to do with Folk Against Fascism

I'm quite certain that neither Vic's falling out with the SWP in a fit of Left Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder (© V I Lenin) nor the Pasty's irrational hatred of everyone who's signed up to FaF (2,225 in under a week) have much bearing on it either. But that's where it is, growing and unstoppable.

Well done, Lilian Bellamy.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:01 PM

The Snail, a few post back, asked how many of the Boat Band were black. I am not sure what point he is seeking to make by this question. Anyway, I will point out that if you have a look at the Boat Band's Myspace page, you will find three out of the six recordings that we have up there feature black musicians.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 12:51 PM

"I was impressed with Micheal Flatley in the Comhaltas
convention in St. Louis a while back sharing the stage with African-American tap experts showing the connection between clogging and step-dancing from two different cultures.
It illuminated the role of Irish step-dancing."

I wonder if they talked about William Henry Lane, "Master Juba", at all? He was a free black man who grew up in New York in the 1840s or 50s. He learned Irish dancing from both the Irish in his neighbourhood and from other black dancers, and beat Irish dancing champions when dancing jigs and reels. The dance style he evolved is thought to be one of the main roots of tap dance.

He died really young, but not before coming to England and dancing in front of Queen Victoria.

An interesting footnote is that, at this time, white men always portrayed blacks on stage. It was the height of minstrelsy. So when Master Juba performed, he had to black up. The world was not ready to see a real live black man on stage.

Not sure that any of this is much to do with Folk Against Fascism, but an interesting example of different cultures collaborating to create something brand new.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 12:20 PM

It would be vastly in the interests of clarity to leave Riverdance out of it. It's nothing to do with Irish trad (whether real or fake) and its not really very much to do with the BNP's own "music" (which consists of trashy ditties about how nice the English countryside would be if it weren't for immigrants spoiling the view).

It's about this vile bunch of thugs expropriating English music, not just trad but singer-songwriter and (quite extensively) neo-classical. Just take a look at the Excalibur catalogue, much of which is in there without the artists' permission or knowledge. True, they too don't seem to actually know what English music is, including, haphazardly a smattering of Scottish, American and European recordings. However, the point is that the BNP is attempting to claim support from performers who have not given it.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Dave Earl
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

Yes Vic

There has been a lot of bickering (here and in other threads)about what seems to me to be "side issues" more than the objectives of the F.A.F. facebook group (nearly 2200 members in so few days).

Do we all need reminding that what we are objecting to is the highjacking of the art form we love and contribute to by the BNP?

That is as far as it goes for me. I don't care what others feel provided we all agree that on this fundimental issue.

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: PaulF
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

"Sadly, the whole history of left-wing politics in the UK suggests that those involved spend more time and energy on nit-picking internecine rows than addressing the ghastly right-wing horrors that they oppose."



Hardly surprising Vic Smith, after all, socialism is the politics of envy, which instead of bringing people up to the same level, drags them all DOWN to the same level. It was OK, and right on for Arthur Scargill and John Prescott to have Jaguar cars, but perish the thought that anyone they consider right wing should enjoy the same privileges!
Anyway, why do they assume that it is only the left wing who are against the BNP?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 12:04 PM

There is an analogy that takes place here in Southern Georgia, US. They have "Southern Re-enactment" groups that purport to teach a narrow history of the Confederacy. These groups are often filled with mis-information which I suspect is also the case with the BNP supporters of their kind of "folk". The antidote to the problem is more study and interest in the roots of English music that can be shown to dispel the propaganda mechanism that is employed by the BNP (who probably really doesn't care about British folk music and is more concerned with their political ideology). For this reason, it's a good thing that British people are taking an active interest in the music of their cultural heritage and explaining it for the edification of the public.

Another analogy would be the hyped-up interest in Wagner's "volk" in Hitler's Germany.
Real German folk music was not really addressed. Songs like "Die Gedanken Sind Frei"
which have a venerable history was not part of that agenda.

Ruth Archer's approach seems reasonable to me. Educate and inform the public about all aspects of British music and you will expose the BNP for what they are, ideological right-wingers and white supremacists who really don't give a damn for British folk music.

I see as a corollary to this idea of folk music to show the effects of British folk music in
other lands and cultures as well. I was impressed with Micheal Flatley in the Comhaltas
convention in St. Louis a while back sharing the stage with African-American tap experts showing the connection between clogging and step-dancing from two different cultures.
It illuminated the role of Irish step-dancing.

Similar juxtapositions of cultural expressions could be applied to British folk music culture.

As we know on Mudcat, many variants of songs that originated in the British Isles found roots in other cultures. Folklorists and collectors are aware of the unifying aspects of their work. The more you dig deeply into one culture, the better capable you can share it with another with the same enthusiasm and knowledge.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 11:52 AM

"The folk world has an element within it who actually feed the BNP, imo, perhaps without realising they're doing it, because they almost demand PURITY.

Purity of song
Purity of accent
Purity of music

ALL *must* be English, in the *right* way"

For all the times you've made this claim and been asked to provide ANY evidence for it, you have been absolutely unable to. So can you please stop trying to stir the crap, and please, please, if you have nothing more constructive to contribute, just leave this project alone. Honestly, it is much more important than gratuitous point-scoring, and it really isn't about you.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 11:49 AM

Kampervan and Vic Make an important point. One which has frustrated me for years. Solidarity wins in the end. "The more we get together..."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 11:37 AM

Kampervan wrote
"Am I alone in despairing over the fact that there can be so much dissent among people who believe in a common goal i.e. neutralising the BNP?"

Sadly, the whole history of left-wing politics in the UK suggests that those involved spend more time and energy on nit-picking internecine rows than addressing the ghastly right-wing horrors that they oppose.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Kampervan
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 10:04 AM

Am I alone in despairing over the fact that there can be so much dissent among people who believe in a common goal i.e. neutralising the BNP?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM

Folknacious

Sheesh, why are you lot so f***ing [i]dense[/i]!

I know it's not very British to boast of one's own acheivements but could I just point out that it was me that first drew attention to the fact that the BNP were selling folk records through their Excalibur marketing arm in this post which I think I can claim as one of the roots of Folk Against Fascism.

Perhaps you would then like to have a read through my posts on the
BNP: What would you do? thread.

I notice that you did't take part in either of those threads or any other thread about the BNP until you started this one.

Then you might like to consider whether I might be someone who does have a rather better idea of what he is talking about than you and that I don't need to justify my musical taste to you or anyone else.

After that perhaps we can get together to work on keeping the B4$%!4$£ds out of folk music.

Bryan Creer

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:38 AM

"Getting off your arses and doing something about it counts, going out and voting counts.
How many of you people actually know what fascism is? Then out of them, how many went out and voted in the recent election?"

Yes, I do know what fascism is - it's what my father fought against in WW2. Yes, I did vote in the recent elections and the fascists got in in my constituency. Yes, I will continue to oppose them in word an deed every step of the way. Smugness is people who sit on their arses and criticise others who CARE about that these bastads are doing.

Oh, and YES, our disapproval does count and WTF are you to say different?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:23 AM

greg stephens

If people want to run a white folk club, let them put that on the poster.

Remind me, Greg, how many of The Boat Band are black? The only people on this thread equating British with white are you and Folknacious.

Bryan Creer

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:16 AM

You're welcome, Lizzie.

Now, as the American television host Ed Sullivan used to say "On with the show".

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:15 AM

Oh, we don't mind, Azizi, no worries. xx :0)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:13 AM

I'm sorry. The "It's pm;s" in my preceding posts is a result of poor editing on my part. I was going to write that "it's through pms that I have come to know Lizzie and quite a number of other posters to this thread. But I thought I was deleting that sentence because I recognized that whether or how I've developed relationships with Mudcatters in addition to exchanging comments with them on this public forum is really not pertinent to this discussion.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:06 AM

Thank you, Azizi. x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:52 AM

For what it's worth, I agree with Captain Birdseye's 14 Jun 09 - 06:25 AM post excluding his comment about British or English folk clubs-I exclude that portion of his comment only because I know too little about British or English folk clubs to agree or disagree with that comment.

Also, FWIW, Lizzie Cornish is my friend, and she's no racist. I agree with Lizzie's point that "The folk world has an element within it who actually feed the BNP". It's pm;s I would interpret Lizzie's "purity" description as folkies believing that traditional English folk music must meet their definitions and their standards and if it doesn't than it isn't really traditional English folk music. But-it seems to me-that every art form has an element who seek to strictly define what their art form is and how it should be presented and/or performed. That viewpoint/preference doesn't make those people racists.

Royston, I think that Lizzie's statement that the "Racist label gets thrown at innocent people" for liking cricket and roast beff" (beef) can be true simply because-as it has been often noted on this thread and other threads on this subject-the BNP is trying to expropriate elements of traditional English culture and trying to twist and use use people's fondness traditional English culture for their (the BNP's) hateful purposes. Because the BNP twist a genuine appreciation for traditional English culture around for their purposes, some people can think that Lizzie's comment "reads like BNP propaganda". But that doesn't mean that what Lizzie wrote is in fact BNP propaganda.

Also Royston, I agree that people are racist "who blame or hate non-white or immigrant communities for irrational reasons." I also agree that personal "Racism is... a symptom of individual anger, insecurity and ignorance." There is also "'institutional racism' describes societal patterns that have the net effect of imposing oppressive or otherwise negative conditions against identifiable groups on the basis of race or ethnicity." http://civilliberty.about.com/od/raceequalopportunity/g/inst_racism.htm

On other threads I have commented about Lizzie's statement that "There is, however, only ONE race, and that is the Human Race." I understand the spirit of what she is saying, and agree that this is the bottom line. However, I wish to say for the record that such a stance can be used to support institutional racism. That said, I don't intend to go further into a discussion of the whats and hows and whys and whos of racism on this thread.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:16 AM

I know what fascism is - I have never personally experienced it, but I have friends who have. I also have friends who escaped to this country for fear of their lives from the fascist state where they lived.

Also I have always voted in every election since I was old enough to vote.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:06 AM

I did vote,in fact because I live in Ireland and have proportional representation,I voted 1 to 9,and in the local elections.
my first vote was for the Irish Labour party,I did not vote for Fianna Fail,neither did I vote for any Fascist/racist party.
I cannot say I was very impressed with any of the candidates,But I still consider it important to vote,by not voting,you become responsible if a racist Fascist party becomes elected.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 07:40 AM

"You say that the "Racist label gets thrown at innocent people" for liking cricket and roast beff. Well, that's not true..."

Wanna bet?

"The racist label gets thrown at the guilty people who blame or hate non-white or immigrant communities for irrational reasons."

No, the 'racist' label gets thrown around very liberally, by those who are some of the most excluding people I've ever come across, who seek to damage and destroy the reputations of those they wish to be rid of. Sadly for them, it doesn't always work.


"In fact your post reads like BNP propaganda..."The lefties want to lynch you for drinking warm beer" sort of twaddle."

'The Lefties' , the Extreme Lefties, like any 'Extreme' have a great deal to be ashamed of. They are all the same, no matter what side of the fence they are on. "Do things OUR way, or we will make you life absolute hell!"

I have NEVER done anything any way other than my own..and never will do.

The folk world has an element within it who actually feed the BNP, imo, perhaps without realising they're doing it, because they almost demand PURITY.

Purity of song
Purity of accent
Purity of music

ALL *must* be English, in the *right* way

It's a load of crap, along with this English 'class' thing, which again is used to abuse and isolate by those with other agendas.

We are all simply......people.

I don't give a monkey's if someone's singing an English folk song in their own accent, there is no ONE accent.

There is, however, only ONE race, and that is the Human Race.

So take you 'BNP propaganda' and place it wherever you so choose, but don't come shoving it at my door, because I've been there, done that, and I'm wearing the T Shirt with 'Fook Off!' on it.

:0)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 07:30 AM

paul, yes we know what facism means, yes we we voted, yes we are trying to do something by educating those people who don't know what the BNP stand for.

what else would you suggest o wise one?

jade

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: PaulF
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 07:18 AM

Well, what a lot of hot air this has generated. Along with a large dollop of smugness. People confuse, xenophobia and racism, with fascism.
Isn't it nice to be nice? We'll show them we disapprove, we are the exclusive members of Mudcat, and our disapproval counts.
NO IT DOESN'T!
Getting off your arses and doing something about it counts, going out and voting counts.
How many of you people actually know what fascism is? Then out of them, how many went out and voted in the recent election?
No petition ever changed anything!
PF

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:46 AM

Lizzie Cornish,

You say that the "Racist label gets thrown at innocent people" for liking cricket and roast beff. Well, that's not true. The racist label gets thrown at the guilty people who blame or hate non-white or immigrant communities for irrational reasons. In fact your post reads like BNP propaganda..."The lefties want to lynch you for drinking warm beer" sort of twaddle.

Racism is normally a symptom of individual anger, insecurity and ignorance. The internal dialogue of the racist boils down to something like...

"I'm not happy in my life, my skin. I can't cope with change around me. I have anger, the causes of which I can't or won't face up to. I see people unlike me and my kind, whom I worry are doing better, getting more, having a happier life than me AND I HATE THEM FOR IT!"

This is the message of the vile racist/fascist BNP. It's all about channeling anger and fear. You see it when the mobs set out to lynch a paediatrician because they think they've found a paedophile.

Hitler did it..."Jews are bleeding you dry, Gypsies steal babies, homosexuals threaten the future of the pure race (along with disabled people), together these are the strange "They" and Them" who you must blame for all Germany's troubles. Get rid of "Them" and you will be OK, you are the chosen, you are the entitled, THEY are the problem."

And the BNP are absolutely no different.

Griffin, on video, addressing white supremacist groups in America, denying the holocaust as a jewish propoganda plot and explaining how he is reluctantly forced to avoid talking about their race and white supremacy agenda in the UK...until they get more power!

Andrew Brons (the other MEP) was convicted of racially abusing a black police officer shouting "death to the jews" amongst other things. He was also the former president of the National Front.

These people are morally bankrupt fear and hate mongers. They are a danger to humanity. They use a legal political process by telling lies about what their real agenda is, hiding behind the laws of free speech.

Now, I don't suggest denying them a platform but I do advocate a policy of "Never forget, never compromise and never surrender" in exposing these people for what they are and for legally frustrating any and all efforts they make to peddle their lies and misinformation.

By the way, we can get rid of the BNP's rallying cries if we would all lobby our MP's of all parties to be better governors. The BNP say;

"THEY are taking the council houses"...I say build more of them then!

"THEY are taking the school places"...I say build more schools!

"THEY are filling up the hospitals"...Last time I was in one, it was full of white drunks but nonetheless BUILD MORE OF THEM!!!

It ain't rocket science.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:45 AM

Richard, let there be no doubt, they are out to get you.

Just need to know just who 'they' are....

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:40 AM

In the midst of all the invective I'd like to remind people that today would have been the eightieth birthday of Anne Frank.

Where has he gone
My dearest son?
Perhaps during the uprising
The cruel enemy killed him

Ah, you bad people
In the name of God, the most Holy,
Tell me, why did you kill
My son?

Never again
Will I have his support
Even if I cry
My old eyes out
Were my bitter tears
to create another River Oder
They would not restore to life
My son

He lies in his grave
and I know not where
Though I keep asking people
Everywhere

Perhaps the poor child
Lies in a rough ditch
and instead he could have been
lying in his warm bed

Oh, sing for him
God's little song-birds
Since his mother
Cannot find him

And you, God's little flowers
May you blossom all around
So that my son
May sleep happily

From Henryk Górecki. Symphony No 3. The Symphony of Sorrowful Songs

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:37 AM

Ah, but, Silas, despite the old saw that just because one is paranoid does not prove that "they" are not out to get one, the antics of the identity thief "Hoff Bridge" proves that "they" ARE out to get me.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:31 AM

Richard, your paranoia is starting show again. I am not a 'suspicious' guest, I post fairly regularly, but do not set up cookies on computers that I do not own.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:27 AM

Lizzie,

We are lucky to live in a country where we can makr choices about how we wish to live our lives (within the law)

To take the Roast Beef of Old England analogy.

If we want a Sunday roast all we have to do is go to the supermarket and buy what we want, or even go to the local pub if we dint want to cook. Also in that supermarket we could buy the ingredients for a curry, a stir-fry. The choices we have reflect the diversity of cultures (and food tastes). But noone is condemning anyone who wants the roast beef.

However, BNP wold argue that because we have the choice of other foods we are losing the right to roast beef which is a twist of logic and quite frankly round spherical objects which for some people is a delicacy.

The same applies to culture which includes folk music. We have the choice of (English) folk music, all forms of folk music, roots, classical, reggae, pop, rap etc etc. As long as enough people have an interest in any type of culture, it will continue.

The main barriers to the continuity of folk is not some conspiracy o put down folk but more straightforward issues like pub landlords making more money from juke boxes, pool tables, restuarants and so forth.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:25 AM

I agree with Lizzie.
we can be proud and wish to promote our music culture,and still appreciate the music and cultures of others.
I play sing English Scottish Irish ,traditional music,I also listen to reels to ragas on my wireless,and have a music collection that is very catholic.
I believe it is agood thing that the English folkscene has clubs with different booking policies,some english/scottish Irish traditional,some blues some contemporary,some all these things,some with performers form other parts of the world.
but if a club chooses to specialise[booking policy wise] in one kind of music,be it English traditional or African music or French music,the organiser has every right to do so,without being called racist.
I cant think of a single club that has ever stopped a performer from singing a song[other than the club Ewan and Peggy were involved in ,over 40 years ago],when Lisa Turner was stopped from singing Single Girl,or was she reprimanded after?.
did anyone accuse those organisers of that club of being racist.
I think it is a great idea ,if people want to organise multi cultural folk clubs festivals societies,I also think it is great ideas that societies/ clubs want to concentrate as Comhaltas and EFDSS do on Irish or English Traditinal music.
The two can co exist together,.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:18 AM

Who has ever been accused of being racist for eatig roast beef?

Whats this thing about not being allowed to celebrate our 'Englishness'? Its a myth.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:10 AM

Hello, another suspicious GUEST!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:03 AM

Good post Lizzie !

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:35 AM

What they said.. ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:32 AM

What leveller said...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:32 AM

You are missing my point quite entirely LC. But I don't have time to explain. And err 'thank you' too I guess, whatever that means...?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:30 AM

Lizzie:
You re absolutely right these are all the things that many of us love and enjoy. But I think that is the reason Crow Sister mentioned them. It is the thought of the BNP using them for their own devious means that offends. I think you are both right, if that's possible on a Mudcat thread!

FAF Andy

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:28 AM

Lizzie, I think what Crow Sister is saying is not that these things are bad - of ocurse they aren't - but to highjack them and make them part of a fascist agenda devalues them and implies that those of us who have contrary views to these thugs - and who enjoy the diversity of food/culture/music/people which is part of the REAL Britain are being unpatriotic and subversive when, in fact, the exact opposite is true. For a view of the true diversity of England, look at the England In Particular website and the absolutely wonderful book that they produced.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:10 AM

Crow Sister....I'm 54 years old..and whether folks on here like it or not..I *remember* a time when what you've put above was is EXACTLY what DID happen.

OK, so times have moved on, a great deal, and now most prefer Chicken Korma to Lancashire Hot Pot, but...and it's a big BUT....but one of the reasons why the BNP is getting the support it is, imo, is because for decades we've never been allowed to mention our past, our memories, or to think back..

I was brought up on Roast Beef and Roast Potatoes..My Dad loved Eccles Cakes..I used to love seeing the Beefeaters, on a rare trip to London, soaked up the history, loved it all. I still love it, the Kings and Queens, the houses and castles..

There is NOTHING wrong with who we are. We are England...and that encompasses our memories, our past, present and future....

Now those memories also include the tantalising scent of curry drifting down the High Street, the Notting Hill Carnival, the Imagined Village and so much more, all of which have *enriched* this nation, but let us also remember our past too.

Hell, every other country in the world is allowed to, so why not us?

My childhood was NOT racist. My father went to war to ensure that scum like Hitler didn't win, that facists didn't rule the world..but to say what you've said above, is stirring nothing but anger, in my opinion, although I realise you may not have meant it that way.

I had a wonderful childhood, grew up in a wonderful country, but I've watched my country tear itself apart, because it lost sense of who it was, where it was going. It absorbed the hatred poured down on us by so many, when ALL countries have bad things in their past. Yes, we had slavery, but we also had William Wilberforce! Many other countries also had slavery, including the African nations themselves...Not ALL thing within the British Empire were bad...Yes, much was appalling, but there was some good there too.

My kids still have the occasional plate of Roast Beef and Yorkshire puddings, and that does NOT make them racist.

Neither does loving the sound of Church Bells, or seeing cricket being played on village greens...I don't give a flying duck what colour skin the players may have...It's the esssence of watching something that has been enjoyed for so long, that is part of who we are..

It's no different from loving folk songs for the same reason...

I get so sick of the way the racist label is flung around at innocent folks.

I'm English, I'm also British, but more importantly, I'm just one of the Human Race...and I see souls, not colours.

I loathe the BNP, but I love the country I grew up in...and the way it's changed too, in the areas where it's changed for the better...but I hate the way we've been made to feel so wrong, for so long...when England, in particular, (as the book goes) is one of the most welcoming and tolerant nations in the world!

So REJOICE over our Lancashire Hot Pot, and serve it up next to the Curry, because the Hot Pot is AS important as the Korma...

And THAT is what has been forgotten for so long....

AND...it is THAT which is feeding the BNP's success...

In my ever so humble opinion...

And no, I did NOT vote for them, before the usual bunch come in here yelling 'nasty little racist' at me...

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 03:14 AM

Jesus can anyone imagine what their campaign strategy is like? Where do they get this stuff from?

Next we'll be seeing Griffin et al, gathering pridefully round the local war memorial, while wearing 'Beefeater' uniforms, tucking into Lancashire Hot-Pot followed by Eccles Cakes, before having a hearty singaround of pure unadultarated English folk songs. I reckon they'll top it off with a nice fireworks display, a brass band, and Last Night at the Proms style flag waving fest.

The BNP notion of Britishness is a surreal pastiche. It'd be funny if it wasn't so eerie and macabre.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 03:03 AM

Folk isn't alone in being targeted by the BNP. Seems anything seen to be classically British or English, is fair-play to be borrowed as BNP propaganda. Fortunately not everyone is willing to allow their traditions to serve the BNP's political agenda.

Royal British Legion (a non political organisation) have publicly demanded that Nick Griffin cease co-opting their poppy emblem in memoriam of war dead, as BNP political propaganda.
Nick Griffin hasn't been simply wearing the poppy on rememberance day like everyone else, but throughout his entire political campaign in Europe.

Open Letter to the Guardian

This is another example of their political advertising on the back of remembrance of war dead. A prior example was to be found during a remembrance day service where a wreath of poppies emblazened with the BNP slogo and a message which read: "You fought bravely to keep this country for your own. Rest in Peace. Now it's our turn." greatly distressed people who had gathered for the service.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 04:05 PM

Don't forget to write to your MP asking them to put English traditional arts and music into the National Curriculum - (in a safely teacherly way, of course)!

It won't take long to establish that it came from here, there and everywhere and belongs to everyone and no-one, and always did/will.

Waiting for a reply from mine.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:52 PM

75 years ago, the Volk was for fascism, not against.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM

If we're down to sloganising, here are two from The English Acoustic Collective:

Traditions must be respected but conventions can be broken and
The gold you are searching for is in your own backyard.

Multicultural artistic collaboration is not new (Boka Halat/Edward II/Ale Möller Band, to start a long list) nor is dancing to whatever were the pop tunes of the day (the tunes in the Playford Dancing Master didn't fall from the C17 sky).

The focus of FaF, as well as safeguarding trad music from the threat of hijack by the BNP will also cover extension of this phenomenon, down through the ages. It's what English musicians have always done and they will not be deflected.