Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20]


Folk Against Fascism

Azizi 13 Jul 09 - 01:10 AM
Peace 13 Jul 09 - 01:17 AM
Azizi 13 Jul 09 - 01:48 AM
Peace 13 Jul 09 - 01:51 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Jul 09 - 04:01 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Jul 09 - 04:37 AM
Jeri 13 Jul 09 - 07:49 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Jul 09 - 08:02 AM
Jeri 13 Jul 09 - 08:11 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Jul 09 - 11:42 AM
katlaughing 13 Jul 09 - 11:43 AM
jeddy 13 Jul 09 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,ken mellor 15 Jul 09 - 04:37 PM
Vic Smith 15 Jul 09 - 04:53 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 15 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM
jeddy 15 Jul 09 - 07:21 PM
Emma B 15 Jul 09 - 07:33 PM
jeddy 15 Jul 09 - 07:52 PM
Fred McCormick 16 Jul 09 - 08:15 AM
Peace 16 Jul 09 - 08:28 AM
Peace 16 Jul 09 - 08:32 AM
Ruth Archer 16 Jul 09 - 08:44 AM
Fred McCormick 16 Jul 09 - 09:05 AM
Emma B 16 Jul 09 - 09:07 AM
Emma B 16 Jul 09 - 09:31 AM
Peace 16 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM
Fred McCormick 16 Jul 09 - 02:40 PM
Emma B 16 Jul 09 - 02:51 PM
jeddy 16 Jul 09 - 03:43 PM
Ruth Archer 16 Jul 09 - 03:56 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Jul 09 - 04:04 PM
Ruth Archer 16 Jul 09 - 04:45 PM
Gervase 16 Jul 09 - 05:54 PM
Peace 16 Jul 09 - 11:56 PM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 12:11 AM
Joe Offer 17 Jul 09 - 12:13 AM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 12:40 AM
Joe Offer 17 Jul 09 - 01:28 AM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 01:34 AM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 01:47 AM
Joe Offer 17 Jul 09 - 02:17 AM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 02:39 AM
Peace 17 Jul 09 - 02:53 AM
Ruth Archer 17 Jul 09 - 03:19 AM
theleveller 17 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM
jeddy 17 Jul 09 - 07:16 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Jul 09 - 07:38 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM
Stringsinger 17 Jul 09 - 10:47 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 01:10 AM

Lemme rephrase that.

A URL is a website's address. That address starts with http://www.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 01:17 AM

Thanks,Azizi.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 01:48 AM

You're welcome.

I hope it works.

Using someone's name on the Internet is a criminal act-or at least should be. And when a person's name is used to promote an organization like BNP-it makes the identity theft so much worse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 01:51 AM

They
are
shit.

Not
to
worry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:01 AM

What I think Facebook want if possible is the address (the bit that comes up in the address bar usually at the top of the Explorer window - ie for this thread http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=121472&messages=854#2678762 ) of the offending message or identity.

It is probable that falsely assuming the identity of another to assist the BNP is an actionable libel under English law - but you have to get hold of the identity of the identity thief to sue them.

You may be able to do this under US "safe harbour" doctrine, which, as I understand it, provides for a common carrier to be exempt from libel liability so long as it identifies the poster of the libel. It's probably easier to do this under those provisions than the UK law as it stands after the "Motley Fool" libel cases. Heric may have more info on the US law here.

If the identity thieves are using material in which you own the copyright you may be able to requir Facebook to take down the infringment by using a DIgital Millennium Copyright Act notice (US law, so again Heric maybe able to add information).

I have listed some of the impersonators of which I know on the "Will the Real Richard Bridge Please Stand up" thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:37 AM

There is now a fake Kat Coffey too

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=100000084256506


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:49 AM

I don't know how it works, but I'd guess this guy could be sued and Facebook would have to provide information pertinent to the case, such as identity and/or tracking information.

I am not a lawyer though. I'm thinking that, knowing the nature of Facebook, they know a LOT of stuff about this person. It might be in their best interest to find a way to ban him. Wikipedia seems to have found a way to stop him, and at least once there, he was identified by his IP address.

Things you post, including photos, are copyrighted intellectual property. You can't copyright a name though (although you can register a trademark). That this nut takes out multiple memberships pretending he's other people shows me 1) he thinks he's worthless as himself (he's likely right), and 2) it's more about trolling/attention seeking than it is about anything else.

This troll has no identity of his own and no apparent life unless someone is irritated with him, and he does a ridiculous amount of work just to piss people off. Think about what he's had to do to create those identities: gather personal info, steal and sometimes alter photos. What sort of person would do all that?

I would strongly advise those of you who wish to give him the attention he craves find some sort of way to do it where HE CAN'T SEE HOW FAMOUS HE IS.

...then, sue his ass.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 08:02 AM

Jeri, the BNP clone or clones are not merely or even mainly attention seekers. They are there to do the sinister work of the BNP.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 08:11 AM

By looking completely impotent as himself and fairly desperate? I'm not seeing it, Richard. If this is all the BNP can do, why does anybody really give a shit?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:42 AM

They seek to impede progress with "Folk against Fascism" - not least by causing question marks over the bona fides of the real identities of the supporting members, and inhibiting inter-member communication.

They seek to frighten people on whose doors they might knock, people who suddenly realise that the BNP might be able to trace them. THey want to silence them, by fair means or foul.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:43 AM

I agree with you, Jeri. To me, this just seems a sick way of drawing attention because 1) has to be a Mudcat member to access the photos and 2) use of a controversial issue is a convenient way to fill the need for attention even more. It's reminiscent of many years ago when someone started a new "katlaughing" membership here and supposedly posted as me. Thankfully that was stopped in its tracks. If facebook doesn't remove my picture, I will look into further action.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 08:59 PM

they have started to use a different tack on me now. they are being really nasty about everyone else but trying to be nice to me, in order for me to think they are really ok.

we all know that these people are very lonely and have no life of their own, but what i can't figure out is how they think this sudden change towards me will get me to think any different of them.

i have three messages today, it is a wonder these people have time to eat or anything else.

just so everyone is clear i hate what the BNP stands for and what they are trying to do, not only to our music but our country too. they want us divided i will not let them divy up my country like it is a piece of pie. the best thing about a pie is anything can be put inside it, like this country, it would be very bland if you only got the pastry. we would lose so much if they get their way. we are fighting for something very special and unique.

sorry i got quite carried away, can you tell?

take care all

jade x x x x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,ken mellor
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 04:37 PM

The definition of a patriot is a person who loves his own country.
The definition of a nationalist is a person who hates all other countries.
P.S. I like folk music but why is most of it depressing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 04:53 PM

Andy Turner's post on the Folk Against Fascism thread on the fRoots Forum makes interesting reading and shows the tactics that BNP supporters are currently using.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

"and shows the tactics that BNP supporters are currently using"

nothing original here, but then again that's one of the things the BNP can never be accused of, originality....oh and creativity. Give'em enough rope etc, etc.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:21 PM

i agree that with enough rope...
but at the same time we cannot let them get away with lying to the public, anymore than we can let them get away with the violent and bulling tacticts(?) they use.

as long as we sound reasonable and are being truthful the world will see what monsters the diehards of the BNP are truely like.

take care all

jade x x x x

ps has anyone heard when the merch will be ready? x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:33 PM

This -
"It is possible that by remaining friends with "Folk Against Fascism" your identity could appear on "RedWatch", making public aparance less safe."

is a direct threat as far as I can see - pretty awful spelling too :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:52 PM

no wonder i couldn't find it i was looking at the wrong post!!   duh!!!   i am jealous, his message was better than the ones i have been getting, at least his was original. mine just copy huge amounts of stuff written here.

thinking about it there are only a few who can actually read and write so maybe i am lucky that my troll knows how to.
not to mention copy and paste.
take care all... and please troll write to me soon, i miss your witty charisma(?)

jade x x x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:15 AM

Earlier on in this thread I posted a link to a Conservative organisation called There's Nothing British About the BNP. I did that because I felt the only way of tackling the menace of fascism is through a broad United Front, including absolutely everybody who believes in liberty and democracy, is anti-racist etc. That is still roughly where I'm at. However, I've had a communication from TNBATBNP which has caused me some food for thought. You can read it at http://www.nothingbritish.com/ . The communication consists of 10 questions to BNP leaders, most of which I would call fair comment. But question 4 reads:-

"Won't your policy of seizing land and natural assets for communal ownership, and the redistribution of the ownership of British businesses replace the free market and rule of law with socialism and bring our economy to its knees?"

Sounds as though TNBATBNP doesn't understand the difference between socialism and national socialsim.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:28 AM

FUsK the BNP.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:32 AM

'"It is possible that by remaining friends with "Folk Against Fascism" your identity could appear on "RedWatch", making public aparance less safe."'

Fick RedWatch, too. I do NOT understand why people are afraid of garbage like the BNP or RedWatch. People never meet street trash before?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:44 AM

this is why people take the BNP and Redwatch seriously.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:05 AM

Ruth. Redwatch must be one of the most verminous sites on the Internet. Alec MacFadden, one of the subjects of the Guardian article you refer to, is a TUC activist on Merseyside, where I live. Within the past few months, Redwatch has again posted his address, with an invitation for far right nutters to pay him a visit. As a result of this, armed police were stationed outside his house for a whole week.

Charming country we live in.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:07 AM

" I do NOT understand why people are afraid of garbage like the BNP or RedWatch. People never meet street trash before?"

Redwatch is a nazi website that reproduces photographs and home details of anyone who does not share their racist outlook.
Some of those targeted are called "scum", others "retards", but ALL are being set up for intimidation and in some cases violence.

In many cases the pictures are unidentified but linked to some are names and addresses, car registrations, phone numbers and even workplaces

One Redwatch target was the Yorkshire Evening Post journalist Pete Lazenby. An NUJ activist with a proud history of exposing racism and fascism, Lazenby has long been a thorn in the side of Yorkshire's nazis.

"We need to find this reporter fast," read one messageon the Redwatch 'closed' Yahoo group. "If we can scare this cunt off then we might get an easier time instead of being slagged off and made to look a bunch of muppets."


Alongside the personal information on their targets, the secret members of the Yahoo Redwatch site are offered bomb manuals.
The Anarchist Cookbook, simple light-bomb designs and a guide to making plastic explosives are all available.



'Redwatch was originally published in paper form by the far right racialist group Combat 18 in March 1992, when its slogan was "oderint dum metuant": "let them hate as long as they fear".

Anyone listed on Redwatch (and their families) may be at increased risk of violence from far right supporters.
There have been many reports to the police of people suffering death threats after their details have appeared on the website.

A Leeds teacher who complained about a far right activist, Tony White, leafleting his school, had his details listed on Redwatch, after the jailing of White.
Far right supporters then firebombed the teacher's car.

Merseyside TUC organiser Alec McFadden received death threats shortly after his details appeared on the website. At precisely the same time, Joe Owens, an official Merseyside BNP candidate with several convictions for violent offences, began sending him e-mails gloating that he had photographic details of his house, car, and family.
Since standing as a Respect candidate in the May 2006 elections, McFadden has been physically attacked, including being stabbed in the face, in front of his two young daughters at his home'

- wiki

Redwatch is hosted by a US server, so outside the jurisdiction of the British authorities, and as a result it is protected under the First Amendment to the US Constitution, which enshrines Freedom of Speech - however the recent test case
here may make that subject to review

While the Redwatch site carries a disclaimer, which states that the site is not intended to target people for attack, this is unlikely to be a defence.
Their and Combat 18's history of violence means that those identified on Redwatch can legitimately believe that they are under threat.

Angela Eagle MP in a Commons debate urged ministers to take action against Redwatch, pointing out: "There appears to be a pattern of violence which is aimed at individuals who are targeted by this website which cannot simply be a coincidence..."

Kevin Watmough, a veteran nazi, runs Redwatch as well as the Blood and Honour site, which offers advice on how to make bombs similar to those used in the terror attacks of 7 July


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:31 AM

" I do NOT understand why people are afraid of garbage like the BNP or RedWatch. People never meet street trash before?"

Redwatch also has a Polish site hosted also by the American based Dreamhost**

In Warsaw 2 years ago an activist named Maciek was critically injured and almost killed when two nazis stabbed, kicked, and pepper sprayed him after Maciek's personal data appeared on redwatch.info -

Attempted murder of an antifascist

Writing in response to the existence of the Polish Redwatch site, which mirrors the British site closely, lawyers from Proskauer Rose LLP say
"The content of Redwatch's site is not protected speech under the First Amendment because it constitutes a true threat," says the firm's report. "The right to free speech is not absolute. Although the First Amendment does safeguard speech advocating violence, well-established law dictates that the right to free speech does not include threats of violence."

Precedent for taking action against websites can be found in Planned Parenthood v American Coalition of Life Activists (ACLA). A court in the US found that the anti-abortion group went beyond free speech in listing the names and addresses of abortion doctors on a website called the "Nuremberg Files".

ACLA claimed that the website merely collated information on doctors for possible use in legal action against those involved in abortion. The court disagreed and viewed the site as threatening, especially as two of the listed doctors were subsequently killed. Black lines were put through their pictures on the site.

Although the ACLA website did not explicitly call for violence against these doctors, the court took into account the history of "pro-life" violence against abortion doctors

The Polish Government has twice asked its American counterparts to close down Redwatch.
On both occasions the site was removed.


** "DreamHost strongly believes in the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, which guarantees its citizens freedom of speech and freedom of the press, among other things (both of which can apply to websites).
We made a business decision long ago to value freedom of speech above any potential offense someone might take over the content of a site hosted by us."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM

I am not taking issue with you, Emma. However, I am of the opinion that because the police do not really help it's imperative to deal with the leaders--those who give the orders--not the assholes who carry out those orders. Why leave the 'brains' alone? They are even more guilty than their followers. If a rattlesnake is gonna bite you, there isn't much sense cutting off the tail. That just makes the noise. The business end is the head.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

Actually the UK government does have the tools to prevent UK access (for the most part) to the Redwatch site and even to bar all Dreamhost sites from (almost all) UK ISPs. It is called "cleanfeed" and ISPA "encourages" all UK ISPs to use it. There is an official list of proscribed sites. If the user tries to access a proscribed site he gets "404 site not found" and the attempt to access the site is counted. ISPs say that the IP address of the user is not logged, but I have never believed that.

It was designed to disable access to child pornography sites, but there is nothing at all to stop Dreamhost sites being added to the proscribed list.

Since it is -er- only semi official no doubt the Government could deny their involvement too.

Just google "cleanfeed" and run down the lists a way. There are other things also called cleanfeed but this one its there too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 02:40 PM

"Redwatch is hosted by a US server, so outside the jurisdiction of the British authorities, and as a result it is protected under the First Amendment to the US Constitution, which enshrines Freedom of Speech - however the recent test case here may make that subject to review"

Being hosted in America doesn't make it fall outside UK jurisdiction. The site orginates in Britain and the perpetrators are therefore, liable to prosecution under UK law.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 02:51 PM

I'm not taking issue with you either Peace but just yelling expletives (deleted or otherwise) is just reacting on the same leval as the street thugs and not exposing the true nature of the BNP and its more covert organizations.

Pax?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:43 PM

and other one. is this accurate richard?


It's so sad to see the failed musician Bruce still losing his composure on the cat. I see Emma B now wants to join in the fun and games !

I had hoped they would have taken up my offer of dropping the subject of the BNP on the cat, sadly not. Well if that is the way they wish to play, we can all continue in the fun and gaiety.

As I said, I am a member of the BNP and mudcat, I never discuss my politics on the cat, just my love of folk music. If they leave my politics alone, then we can all be happy.

I received two pm's today on the cat which saddened me to no end, great people, but a touch meddlesome. I am also a member of Red watch.

Hope you have a wonderful evening.

George Davis

this was from 'richard bridge'.

how stupid are they that they are forgetting whose name they are using????????

take care all

jade x x x x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:56 PM

Can I make the observation that I don't really think it's particularly productive to be constantly re-printing and getting into a flap over the messages obviously being sent by one rather sad individual? Apart from anything else, it diverts attention from the real issues at hand.

You're giving them what they want: attention. The line we've taken on the FAF site is delete and ignore, and I would strongly suggest you adopt the same approach. If they stop getting the attention they want, they will get bored.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 04:04 PM

"If they stop getting the attention they want, they will get bored."

Don't want to sound too rude, but as a non-Facebooker, I'm afraid I find it frustrating and boring too.

Looking forward to updates on the FaF website, merch & gigs though, RuthA.

Please could someone keep us updated here, if anything worthwhile occurs over there? Cheers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 04:45 PM

Crow Sister - currently in the pipeline:

- the website, which is currently a holding page, is being expanded to host a merch page. T-shirts and stickers are printed, badges are on the way, and flyers are being printed.

- an event pack for people who want to put on FAF gigs will be available for download from the site, or if that's a bit labour-intensive, we can send it out ready-made.

- a big gig, or series of gigs, based around St George's Day/ May Day 2010, which will also involve lots of people around the country running their own FAF events. The details for this are currently being hammered out, but we'll be able to tell you more about it really soon.


So that's what we're currently up to...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:54 PM

Ah, tee shirts - want one asap. Where do we get 'em from?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 11:56 PM

"It's so sad to see the failed musician Bruce still losing his composure on the cat."

That ain't my composure. That's me. My music now is better than it's ever been, and had I been so failed the BNP (FaCK the BNP) would never have used my ID to laud themselves on Facebook. As to my meaning: foock with me and I'll deal with your leadership, not the asshole(s) who try to intimidate me. OR kill me. I will give as good as I get. And, if you think I don't mean that or will be able to carry it out, think codicil. Motherfuckers likely don't know what that is. I will explain. It's a little add-on to a will that reads, "In the event of my death, please take care of this stuff for me:

YOU are that stuff.

Now, back to the regular program: FyCK the BNP.

That's the glove. Next, the gauntlet.

Richard Bridge would NEVER have said that to me, about me, or at me. You, motherfucker are now the person I will seek. And I mean that. You do not scare me nor do you intimidate me. All you do is piss me off. I am a nasty sonuvabitch when I'm pissed off. Send your friends. I'd love to meet them. And please stop trying to drag others into it.

Bruce Murdoch


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 12:11 AM

"As I said, I am a member of the BNP and mudcat, I never discuss my politics on the cat, just my love of folk music. If they leave my politics alone, then we can all be happy."

Whoever you are: IF you mean that, stay out of the BS section. Your problem will then be solved.

PS Your threat to me about two weeks ago--mention of the FN--I noticed that. I also noticed you copy and pasted that from the same site I cut and pasted back to you. Not only are you attempting to be scary, but you succeeded. NOW, I'm looking for you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 12:13 AM

So, we've established that Bruce Murdoch wants to have sex with the BNP. He's said that over and over again. I wonder why he finds them so attractive....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 12:40 AM

Well, Joe, you have obviously never understood bestiality--but, then, I have never understood voyeurism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 01:28 AM

Well, Bruce. About all you seem to be able to say on the issue is "Funck the BNP" - over and over and over again. It's, like, really tedious. The intellectual sophistication of your argument is right about at the level of a Sturmabteilung brownshirt thug. Are you thinking of enlisting?

Better yet, how about trying rational discussion?

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 01:34 AM

OK, Joe. I'll represent me and you represent you. What do you wish to discuss? Should it be the BNP? Their political platform which is racist? Their solutions to the immigrant population in the UK? Their skimming of people's IDs? Their arseholes who intimidate folks?

Should we have a rational discussion? If so, please tell me the parameters and just how polite we are supposed to be. Then explain why you allow Nazis to roost here. Until then, FUCK the BNP.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 01:47 AM

On sceond thought, you're right. My over-use of the word fuck aimed at this Nazi organization is deplorable. I will henceforth cease and desist. From now on I will say, "Shag the BNP!" (For those of you who don't understand the word 'shag', it means fuck in plain English.")

Howzat?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 02:17 AM

Well, to be honest, Bruce, I expected you to be able to come up with some ideas or information on the subject. All you seem to be able to do, is say the same thing over and over again - be it "fuck" or "shag," it has very little intellectual content.

I was brought up to believe that name-calling was what thugs did when they weren't smart enough to defend their point of view.

Don't get me wrong - I disapprove of the BNP every bit as strongly as you do. But if all we do to oppose the BNP and other Nazi movments is to walk around like baboons and say, "Fuck dis shit," then our argument lacks credibility. In fact, we sound just like the baboons on the other side.

If our goal is to neutralize the neo-Nazis, then we have to be a class act. We won't beat them by playing the game by their rules.

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 02:39 AM

OK.

Joe, tell me what their 'rules' are? I realize you dislike me saying FTBNP or STBNP. Would you rather I engage them in conversation and dignify them as being worthy of discourse--just like they are a real political party with the basic good of people in mind? Would you like me to say, "Gee, BNP, I am so sorry I pissed you off enough that you used my name on Facebook to say shit I never did say?" Would you like me to apologize to these motherfuckers who have threatened me? No damned way, Joe. I am aware you can't block them, but I know you could block me. Do what you have to do. Until then, I will not be anything BUT rude to the arseholes.

People with that political philosophy have in the past done as they said they would do. You know the history as well as I do, so I won't enumerate the events. Even Chamberlain might in retrospect admit he made a mistake. Nice doesn't work with these 'people'. They embody and exemplify the evil in humans and by doing so place themselves beyond the pale.

You see, sarcasm doesn't work on me. But being sarcastic and then appealing to my sense of 'social responsibility' which was denied in the first place by the sarcasm--well, that doesn't work either.

You go ahead and explain the 'action wing' of groups like the BNP. Explain the types of attacks they propogate. Explain the people they have beaten up, attacked in various way, denigrated. Explain that to me. THEN, Joe, you and I could talk. But to suggest that I should modify my thoughts or my languagewhen they still see genocide as an answer to their problems--WTF do you think I am? You want polite from me for them? Y'ain't go0nna get it. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 02:53 AM

"Well, to be honest, Bruce, I expected you to be able to come up with some ideas or information on the subject."

I quit doing that three years back, Joe. You and a few others wanted then to have 'reasoned discourse' with the BNP. I posted their connection to Stormfront. Posted links to articles from the UK press. Posted--I think--a link to their website where they espoused their philosophy. Other people did, too. Maybe you missed it. In the event you did, some people on THIS thread have done so, too. Give it all a read when you can stop worrying about me for a minute or two.

You may see some sort of 'good' outcome by talking rationally with Nazis. I don't. Tell me what ideas YOU have about the BNP. You and I seem to know I have none. So, having said that--what with me being the same as them and all--let's hear YOU reason with the unreasonable.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 03:19 AM

Gervase, as soon as the merch page is up and running, you'll be able to buy on-line.

We've been taking financial and legal advice about constituting ourselves and have just set up a company bank account, so as soon as our lovely and clever IT types have finished building the page, we can start distributing the merch properly, along with event packs. This seemed much better than powering ahead all guns blazing, using ebay and personal bank accounts - this way it's all done properly from the start.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM

I hope we'll be seeing a lot of t-shirts, posters etc. around at clubs, festivals and concerts in the future. I already have printouts of the logo displayed in house and caravan windows and on my guitar case.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 07:16 AM

it is true bruce that we cannot talk to the hardcore element of the BNP.   but for those that have been taken in by the lies,for those that have been bullied into suportting them by family or friends, we have a duty to try not to be too heavy handed.

if only we could round up the hardcore thugs and give them the same treatment that they want to give others.
these are the ones we have to worry about, they will not be talked round or reasoned with.

on the subject of posting the PMs i am getting on FB, i am sorry if you think i am giving them attention but what i am actually doing is taking the piss! they make me laugh so much that i thought you all might like a good laugh too.
my thinking is that if these morons are busy posting stupid messages on a pc then they are not out there throwing firebombs or beating up anyone. they are safely tucked up at home. i know which i would rather give them attention for.
the 'if you ignore them they will go away' philosophy is just wishful thinking, they will just go to more extremes to get the attention they desire.

no offence to anyone and you all have my respect here for the fighting you are all doing.

take care all

jade x x x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 07:38 AM

Yes, I am torn between wanting to deny them the oxygen of publicity (or even of oxygen) and demonstrating my scorn, too.

I am however more concerned that, while opposing them, we should not give them credence as a serious political party.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM

and a well earned 900 too


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 10:47 AM

Let 'em talk. The best defense are the facts.

Here in the States, at a KKK rally recently, there were counter demonstrators dressed in clown suits. Whenever the cry of "white power" came up, the demonstrators shouted "white flour" and threw it into the air. One KKK'er got mad and went after a demonstrator. A cop nailed the KKK guy and arrested him.

Humor is a great weapon. BNP can stand for "bollocks new position" or something like that.
Write some songs about the BNP and their tin pot soldiering.

The BNP and the BJP have roots in common.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...


This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 24 October 3:24 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.