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Folk Against Fascism

jeddy 18 Jun 09 - 01:08 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Jun 09 - 12:48 PM
ard mhacha 18 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM
Jack Blandiver 18 Jun 09 - 12:10 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 18 Jun 09 - 11:14 AM
Jack Blandiver 18 Jun 09 - 11:11 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 18 Jun 09 - 11:10 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Jun 09 - 10:39 AM
Lox 18 Jun 09 - 10:19 AM
Stringsinger 18 Jun 09 - 10:12 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Jun 09 - 10:11 AM
Lox 18 Jun 09 - 08:26 AM
theleveller 18 Jun 09 - 07:51 AM
Tug the Cox 18 Jun 09 - 07:21 AM
Banjiman 18 Jun 09 - 06:36 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Jun 09 - 06:28 AM
Jim McLean 18 Jun 09 - 06:27 AM
Andy Jackson 18 Jun 09 - 06:19 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Jun 09 - 06:12 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM
Andy Jackson 18 Jun 09 - 05:55 AM
Andy Jackson 18 Jun 09 - 05:54 AM
theleveller 18 Jun 09 - 04:57 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Jun 09 - 03:14 AM
Phil Edwards 18 Jun 09 - 03:10 AM
GUEST,tom bliss 18 Jun 09 - 03:07 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Jun 09 - 03:01 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Jun 09 - 03:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 18 Jun 09 - 02:53 AM
SPB-Cooperator 18 Jun 09 - 02:47 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Jun 09 - 06:57 PM
Tug the Cox 17 Jun 09 - 06:49 PM
Ruth Archer 17 Jun 09 - 06:41 PM
jeddy 17 Jun 09 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,mg 17 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM
jeddy 17 Jun 09 - 04:53 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 17 Jun 09 - 04:47 PM
ard mhacha 17 Jun 09 - 04:33 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 17 Jun 09 - 04:24 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 17 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM
greg stephens 17 Jun 09 - 02:28 PM
Phil Edwards 17 Jun 09 - 02:17 PM
The Sandman 17 Jun 09 - 02:14 PM
foggers 17 Jun 09 - 02:10 PM
Vic Smith 17 Jun 09 - 01:33 PM
The Borchester Echo 17 Jun 09 - 01:19 PM
TheSnail 17 Jun 09 - 01:09 PM
Azizi 17 Jun 09 - 12:59 PM
greg stephens 17 Jun 09 - 12:54 PM
Phil Edwards 17 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 01:08 PM

ard mhacha, idon't think i have seen anyone say that it is the whole of northern ireland. i have said that those poor people will think of it as a country wide problem, but then if that had happened to you, you would probably think the same.

this is a case of a few spoiling it for everyone.

take care

jade x x


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:48 PM

"....whereby individuals of any stripe can enjoy the music without being browbeaten by political opinion. "
Sorry, folk song has always contained its fair share of politics, be it Jacobite, anti-establishment, fight for better conditions, recognition of and opposition to class differences, struggles for national independance, pro-industrial action, support for and opposition to military activity (want a list of American Civil War songs - either side available) - right down to children's songs and election chants "Vote-vote-vote for....." whoever, or the more sophisticated "Harry was a Bolshie"). Perhaps you meant to say 'left political opinion'?
As somebody has already said, if you want to avoid politics, you're in the wrong game. Try macrame (was going to say chess, but it don't come more political than that).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM

For the last time on this Thread, the people responsible for the violence against the Romanians were Loyalists,UDA,Protestants, this is without any argument here in the north of Ireland.
This has been going on from these people arrived and as for singing The Wearing of the Green, there is as much chance of these Loyalist thugs singing that, as to hear Paisley sing `God bless our Pope`.
I live in a small street of 36 houses in the street are a number of houses occupied by, Ukranians in No2,Polish 3, Pakistani 8, Polish 10,Polish 15, Romanian 16,Polish 20, and Polish 31. The emigrants have had nothing but help from the locals, they would be astonished to read some of the ill-informed opinions on this Site.

This wouldn`t happen in a Loyalist Protestant street, the town has a population of around 30,000, the emigrants are almost all living in Catholic Nationalist disricts, and this is the case in all of the towns in the north.
Those Belfast Romanians should have been advised before they moved into that part of south Belfast, they are now moved to a Nationalist area for their own safety.

So please check out your facts before accusing all of us in the north of Ireland.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:10 PM

Here's that last post again with the HTML corrected:

This BNP stuff is makes the case as to why folk music needs to be politicized. You can't separate folk music from politics any more than you can separate anyone from their mind.

Uniting against Fascism and Racism does not mean the politicisation of folk music; I know many right-of-centre good-hearted folkies who despise the BNP and all that they stand for but who feel equally affronted by the almost universal adoption of Folk by the Left. There are crucial exceptions of course - Peter Bellamy was one such; whatever his father's political allegiances might have been, one feels sure PB would have been as repulsed by the BNP as are our Tory voting non-folkie neighbours. It's interesting to read what Dick Gaughan has to say on BP's politics - see Here - and one would hope such personal & political tolerance cuts both ways in troubled times such as these.

Opposing the BNP is one thing, disassociating folk music from Racism and Fascism is quite another. It is not a matter of politicisation though, on the contrary - it is a matter an all inclusive non-politicisation whereby individuals of any stripe can enjoy the music without being browbeaten by political opinion.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 11:14 AM

alot of audiences simply don't want politics mixed with their music, it's the audiences who're paying the performers fees. I'll abide by what the audience wants thanks.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 11:11 AM

This BNP stuff is makes the case as to why folk music needs to be politicized. You can't separate folk music from politics any more than you can separate anyone from their mind.

Uniting against Fascism and Racism does not mean the politicisation of folk music; I know many right-of-centre good-hearted folkies who despise the BNP and all that they stand for but who feel equally affronted by the almost universal adoption of Folk by the Left. There are crucial exceptions of course - Peter Bellamy was one such; whatever his father's political allegiances might have been, one feels sure PB would have been as repulsed by the BNP as are our Tory voting non-folkie neighbours. It's interesting to read what Dick Gaughan has to say on BP's politics - see Here - and one would hope political tolerance cuts both ways in these troubled times.

Opposing the BNP is one thing, disassociating folk music from Racism and Fascism is quite another. It is not a matter of politicisation though, on the contrary - it is a matter an all inclusive non-politicisation whereby individuals of any stripe can enjoy the music without being browbeaten by political opinion.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 11:10 AM

"Is this what BNP mean by voluntary repatriation"

"voluntary repatriation" read if you won't go on your own we'll make damned sure you DO go.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:39 AM

"In the case of FAF you have the extra point of reclaiming english folk from the nazi's"

Well, that's pretty much what I meant. But as you'll note from this thread, the phrase Folk Against Fascism can be interpreted in myriad different ways...I think it's quite important that we maintain the prominence of that central message, and also a principle of non-violent engagement. Other than that, the world is really your popsicle stand as far as I'm concerned.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lox
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:19 AM

"I don't think organisations like Love Music Hate Racism "control" the events that are held under their banner as such, but there ought to be some uniformity of message"

It could be worth considering that at a Love Music Hate Racism event, like the old Anti Nazi League carnivals, its about using agreeable bands (most of them) to attract people to show solidarity against racism.

The uniformity of message is the FAF manifesto and the bands get people along to listen.

In the case of FAF you have the extra point of reclaiming english folk from the nazi's, but does there have to be a unity of message in terms of performance content?

Is that even what you meant?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:12 AM

This BNP stuff is makes the case as to why folk music needs to be politicized.
You can't separate folk music from politics any more than you can separate
anyone from their mind.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:11 AM

"Well there's a suprise. "

Not really sure what that's meant to mean. As I mentioned up the thread, my heritage is half Irish. I'm the grandchild of immigrants on both sides, and I'm an immigrant myself. I have no innate prejudice against the Irish. But I don't see any material similarity between the two situations you describe, for the reasons I gave. Context is everything.


Hi Paul,

I've got this meeting tomorrow where I'm hoping that all of these issues can be discussed. I'm going straight to the Big Session from there, so if you can hold tight till Monday for an answer, it would be great. I don't think organisations like Love Music Hate Racism "control" the events that are held under their banner as such, but there ought to be some uniformity of message, and probably a bit of quality and stock control when it comes to producing and distributing merch. These are all issues we need to iron out round a table, so if you can hang tight till Monday, it would be great.

Joan


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lox
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:26 AM

Azizi,

Something to bear in mind is that the two BNP MEP's were elected in Yorkshire and the North west.

Map of results

You can see from this map where the two MEP's were elected, butmore importantly you can get a perspective on how deep the rot has set in - and it hasn't set in that deep.

There are only 2 reps out of 70 who are from the BNP so in perspective we still live in a safe free society.

So why all the fuss?

Because one Nazi in office is one too many and that spark must be starved of oxygen lest it burst into flame and burn our society down.

Its a bit like dropping a cigarette in the woods - people probably do it every day and the woods don't burn down, but there is always the risk that it might catch - and when it does the results are catastrophic.

So we are making a big noise while it is a speck because we care about our democracy and will not allow them into power, but on the other hand - if your daughter is sensible she will be less at risk of a racist assault than she will be of getting mugged.

And that could probably happen where you are just as easily as here.

And if that stopped us travelling we would all live and die in experiential poverty.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:51 AM

"We're keen to put on a gig at Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club under the FaF banner......"

Great idea, Paul. Count us in.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:21 AM

ubject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer - PM
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:14 AM

"In London in the 50's, boarding houses would often display a sign saying,,,'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'. Can you see a connection with 'Anything but irish' ?"


No.


Well there's a suprise.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:36 AM

Ruth/ Joan (I get confused!),

We're keen to put on a gig at Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club under the FaF banner...... can we just go ahead and do this or do we need approval/ guidance etc from the organisation?

Please can you keep us informed about Merch distribution as you get it sorted?

Thanks

Paul


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:28 AM

I'm sure it does. But given that the group is already being targeted by fascists, I want to make sure we do everything properly. There will be people looking for opportunities to trip us up.



Very useful, Richard. Is this how we get around paying VAT? It will be a completely non-profit organisation, and I wanted to make sure we weren't paying tax as if we were a commercial organisation.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:27 AM

Folk against Polaris
This album was actually written in 1960 and produced for Folkways in the USA by Pete Seeger.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:19 AM

Just get them made, tell us how much you want and drop them in the post. Happens on Ebay every day.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:12 AM

Set up FAF Ltd as a company limited by guarantee. Try to get it registered as a charity - probably difficult as its objectives are political, but you could limit its purposes to educational and do the politicking through a sister company... you might get away with that.

Create a subsidiary FAF Trading Ltd (it will register for VAT) that trades and covenants all its profits to FAF so it doesn't have to pay tax.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM

Miskin Man:


Lots of groups and individuals ave said they want merch, so we need an infrastructure for distribution which allows us to do this effectively, and also allows us to recoup the costs of making the merch so that we can make more. This could constitute trading. We're meeting tomorrow to discuss how best to handle it.

Once we've got some sort of virtual marketplace, anyone, including folk club organisers, will be able to access it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:55 AM

Oops, I seem to have invented a new word "orgfanisers". In fact I quite like it, could it catch on?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:54 AM

I just popped in to FAF on Myspace.
When you have 10 minutes and a box of tissues handy go there scroll down to a video "Tamlyn retold".

Very powerful!!

FAF andy

P.S. Why not distribute Stickers through Folk Clubs, several orgfanisers are already signed up?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 04:57 AM

"I took delivery of the first batch of 3000 stickers today, by the way"

I've actually made some of my own using the logo on myspace and now have them in the front windows, in the caravan windows and in the car. They are a bit rough but do the trick - I wish I'd had some before the election as my house is directly opposite the polling station.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:14 AM

"In London in the 50's, boarding houses would often display a sign saying,,,'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'. Can you see a connection with 'Anything but irish' ?"


No.


The cultural contexts could not be more different. Unfortunately, the commercial success of Irish music and Plastic Paddy-style pubs cropping up everywhere in the 80s and 90s resulted in Irish music having a cultural dominance over English music - in England. As a result, many English people, as has been said, think that any music with a fiddle in it must be Irish. I think Anahata's response is not dissimilar to that of a lot of people interested in English music - they are simply trying to create for it a bit of breathing space.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:10 AM

In London in the 50's, boarding houses would often display a sign saying,,,'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'. Can you see a connection with 'Anything but irish' ?

Not really. One meant that Irish people weren't welcome - and that there were only a few places where they were. The other means that Irish tunes aren't welcomed - and there are lots of places where they are.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,tom bliss
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:07 AM

once again, please write to your mp if you feel that including trad arts etc in the school curriculum is good way of heading off the bnp (and a good thing anyway).

this is now before the minister for schools and learning, and I could do with some back up.

thanks


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:01 AM

Bah - you got there before me! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:00 AM

No intention of being rude here - but as I've noticed a couple of times on this thread that on occasion, what I presume are American posters who may not know who they are (?), there have been mistaken 'soundalike' references to the BNP - such as BMP or BNC for e.g.

Just to clarify, for those who may not be aware, BNP is shorthand for the "British National Party."

See Wiki entry for BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 02:53 AM

typo BNP mean


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 02:47 AM

Is this what BMP mean by voluntary repatriation?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 06:57 PM

FFS, please stop to think about the differences between the terms: -

Romanians
Romanies
Roma
romers
Gipsies
Travellers
Tinkers
Didiquoi (or Didikai)


No, I wont be singing "the Wearing of the Green" - any more than I'd expect a Klezmer band to play an instrumental of "The Ash Grove" (Die Lindenbaum). Or than I'd expect a visiting German group to sing any number of WWI or WWII British Army songs, or a French visiting player to play "Swaggering Boney".

Yes, I do think there is a point in my singing "English" "Folk" song, in principle. Because someone ought to. And I'm (as far as I know) English.

But I will also sing (as you should know) other songs too.

The "English" songs I sing do not belong to the lunatic right. The international and/or religious hostilities of which they (or some of them) speak are those of their respective times. They do not speak of setting person against person on the basis of colour.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 06:49 PM

Treewind wrote

I agree with most of that post. However I am also a "English Music" enthusiast and perpetrator of one of those "anything but Irish" sessions


If you actually read the post with which you mainly agree, and accept that such terms as 'Irish' or 'English' ate largely meaningless, ( especially as what is now called 'English music' consists mainly of German and Danish Polkas (played on German instruments) that displaced English reels and Jigs.

In London in the 50's, boarding houses would often display a sign saying,,,'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'. Can you see a connection with 'Anything but irish' ?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 06:41 PM

I took delivery of the first batch of 3000 stickers today, by the way. They will be available at Big Session this weekend.

We have a meeting on Friday to decide how we're distributing the merch, so they should be available to buy very soon.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:32 PM

i am jealous, you can change colours. whinge... i want to do that !!

i just don't understand how to, if you explain it, it sounds complicated.

jade x x lol


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM

my gosh...history is presenting us with an opportunity right now. If you have an opportunity can you sing the wearing of the green? mg


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:53 PM

i can't beleive that so few people can make so much trouble.

i am disgusted.

it is such a shame that, for most of the decent people of northern ireland they can't stop this slur in their names. these poor people will always think of this time and blame the whole country.

thankyou for bringing it to our attention, this could be us if we let the BNP have their way.

btw greg, i love the "Englishy Englishness" that is the sort of langauge i understand..lol

we all seem to be agreeing that booking any artist just to make a point is unecessary and would just point out the fact we are trying too hard to make the point, we are NOT racist.

take care all
jade x x


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:47 PM

I was fully aware of your posting I personally don't have a problem with repeating an important piece of news. Enough said.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:33 PM

Rifleman see my postings up the Thread.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:24 PM

Belfast racists target Romanian migrants

from ITN News

More than 100 Romanians have been forced out of their homes in Belfast by racists.

About 20 families were helped by police in the Lisburn Road area of the city and taken to a nearby church hall. They have since moved to a leisure centre that has been set up as a temporary shelter.

Police, community representatives, politicians and officials from a range of statutory agencies are to attend an emergency meeting in the city to see what can be done for the families.

The meeting at the Chinese Resource Centre on the city's Ormeau Road will discuss an action plan aimed at making the families feel safe to stay.

But many of the families have now vowed to leave Northern Ireland for good.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown joined condemnation of the attacks and said: "I hope the authorities are able to take all the action necessary to protect them."

Police and community leaders had earlier condemned racism in the area which culminated in an attack on a rally in support of the east European migrants.

Youths hurled bottles and made Nazi salutes at those taking part in the anti-racism rally.

The men, women and children, including a five-day-old baby girl, first sought shelter in a house where they thought they would be safe.

But the house was not big enough and a local church offered them the use of the church hall for as long as they need.

Pastor Malcolm Morgan said the church was happy to help. "It is a sad indictment of our society, but hopefully we can show them a different side to Northern Ireland and a caring side to Northern Ireland," he said.

A Police Service of Northern Ireland spokeswoman said: "Police in the south Belfast area assisted several organisations in the temporary relocation of a number of families following consultation with community representatives.

"Families moved to a near-by church and they are being cared for by the appropriate agencies."

Belfast Lord Mayor Naomi Long urged the south Belfast community to rally round their neighbours following the spate of racist attacks.

One of the Romanians, a mother of two who is now sheltering at the Ozone centre, said the targeted families were still petrified.

The woman said everyone was now adamant that they wanted to return to Romania.

She said attacks had been intensifying over the last two weeks but culminated in the racist thugs breaking into her house and threatening her and her children.

"We are OK, we are safe here now," she said in the leisure centre.

"But we want to go home because right now we are not safe here in Northern Ireland. We want to go back home to Romania, everybody right now does."

She said she wanted to leave Northern Ireland as soon as possible.

"I want to go home because I have here two kids and I want my kids to be safe."


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM

"Rifleman,try standing by your Man/van,it makes more sense."

My father says a person shouldn,t have a battle of wits with an unarmed man, so I won't


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:28 PM

Pip Radish: I am totally against including non-English songs, or non-English performers, if it is done "on principle". I am moderately in favour of including non-English songs, and non-English performers, because it is sociable and interesting and fun. I am also in favour of concentrating(some of the time) on music from a very narrow geographical range and cultural background: may I recommend the Boat Band's "A Trip to the Lakes" for an examplke of that, and the Boat Band's "Take Me Over the |Tide" and "Back Deck Blues" for an example of the other.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:17 PM

In practise, would someone just care to draw up a list of all-English folk songs we could choose from? Who is going to decide?

In practice, anyone who wanted to decide would decide - and anyone who wanted to object to those people's decision could object to it. It's only in theory that there's any need to draw up a Definitive List of Definitively English songs - and since gigs don't happen in theory, I don't think it's a big problem.

I think we're answering different questions. Your question is "should we, as anti-fascist folkies, exclude non-English songs on principle?" and obviously the answer to that is No. But mine is "should we, as anti-fascist folkies, try to include non-English songs on principle?" - and I think the answer to that is No too.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:14 PM

funnily enough I have had racist abuse in Ireland,but two cases in 19 years,a miniscule proportion,the majority of people like the majority in England are decent, tolerant, pleasant people,who are prepared to live and let live.
furthermore,they dont go about making racist smears.
Rifleman,try standing by your Man/van,it makes more sense.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: foggers
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:10 PM

Azizi - I second what Ruth and jeddy have said. Our concerns on this thread are about a very specific minority whose political activity needs to be challenged and exposed for the racist bigotry it is.

But they do NOT speak for the vast majority of people here in GB.

Cities such as London have a rich multicultural identity and that can be a life changing experience - I hope your daughter does travel here and experience that.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Vic Smith
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:33 PM

In both Ireland and in Romania, I have seen at first hand the appalling treatment and the social exclusion of their respective wandering classes, sects, races, castes, call them what you will. The Roma have moved away from Romania in large numbers to try to find a better life elsewhere, but don't seem to be getting much of a welcome anywhere.

Yet who are the carriers of the traditional oral culture of both these countries and also the amongst the finest exponents of their singing and music?

Well, funnily enough, it if the travellers and the Roma respectively.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:19 PM

They're Roma people, actually. Strange you should think they are Chinese, given the powerful influence the People's Republic had on the old Romanian regime. It also goes to illustrate just how long the shadow of the past is in Ireland where there is a long and sad history of harassment of their own travelling people (or Tinkers, as they are termed).

There have always been those who will attack and cast blame on anyone a bit different from themselves for the ills and iniquities of society. Neo-facist groups are merely doing the work of the ruling class by stirring up the process of divide-and-rule through prejudice. The epitome of ignorance. ¡No pasarán!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:09 PM

greg stephens

In practise, would someone just care to draw up a list of all-English folk songs we could choose from?

I expect the BNP have already done that. We don't want them to sing ANY of those songs. Can we try and remember the point of this exercise?

I like "well-acclimatised in England". As a friend of mine says, "We do play some Irish stuff but it's English by the time we've finished with it."

And while I'm here, what DID you mean by "If people want to run a white folk club..."?

Bryan Creer


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 12:59 PM

Okay. Thanks. I'm sure that I overreacted.

I knew that I needed time away from thinking about all of this. It's personal to me in ways that may not be as intense for many other people posting to this thread.

I should have listened to my spirit telling me to take a break from this subject for a while. I recognize that I'm lucky that I can take a break from thinking about racism. Other people living in the midst of things such as those Chinese immigrants in Ireland who were bricked (I didn't know what "bricked" meant until I read that article) whose story I read this morning aren't able to take such breaks.

For those who don't have to be involved in this struggle because you aren't directly targeted by the BNP and other hate groups, please know that I thank you from the bottom of my heart-and the top of it too.

I'm trying to stay upbeat but actually I'm teary eyed now.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 12:54 PM

"An all-English lineup, singing all-English songs", proposes Working Radiush. So, OK in principle. In practise, would someone just care to draw up a list of all-English folk songs we could choose from? Who is going to decide? A special committee? Do we permit Irish origin songs, if well-acclimatised in England? Etc etc. I think anybody who has given any serious thought to this matter has recognised the impossibilty of defining a concept like "all-English" song: or at least in the context of traditional song it is impossible. "Popular in England", sure, but I think some people are looking for a more Englishy Englishness than that.A very elusive quality.
So, if anyone can supply the list, I'm up for playing in the concert!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM

What Ruth said. Racism is borderline illegal in this country - government bodies & publicly-funded institutions (like universities) are under a legal obligation to promote equality of opportunity for all ethnic groups. If you crossed the UK off your list on the grounds that organised racist groups exist here, you'd also have to cross off France, Germany, Italy, the USA, er...


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