BS: Plastic Paddy slur

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 04:44 AM

Richard, if you were to read my first post here you would see that the term has been used against me in a derogatory way and I happen to know that it is used against many others with Irish parents but who talk with English accents.

Terms, especially those not found in dictionaries, are defined by their usage, not by your greater knowledge.

In fact, what you are telling nme is that you are uninformed as to its pejorative usage.

I am informing you.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:06 AM

To add to my last post, It should be noted that a recent scandal in Bristol City council involved a Black Councillor acusing an Asian Councillor of being a coconut.

Coconut

So One does not have to specifically be Black to be on the receiving and of this type of abuse.


"If "Plastic Paddy" is now a pejorative term, does that mean that "Paddy" itself is not longer a pejorative term?"


Excellent question, beautifully put.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:20 AM

For what it's worth, in a debate that has gone beyond silly at times, my experience has been:

"Paddy" is often used, sometimes pejoratively, by people (mostly English) to refer generically to an Irishman; "Plastic Paddy" is used by Paddys, always pejoratively, to refer to non-Paddys who try too hard to be Paddys.

Clear enough? ;>)

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:56 AM

Lox, what you suggest is not the general usage of the term "Plastic Paddy" (both from my own experience and of my friend Paddy Cannon).

Also, if you read my post you would apprecaite that the usage that you cite of the term "coconut" (sometimes "Bounty Bar") is exactly as I said it was used.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 06:18 AM

Martin,

Your experience of the usage of this term is of course useful and adds to the overall picture in a helpful way.

My experience is different and hopefully provides you with a broader view of how the term is used.

The old Indian story of the Elephant being examined and described to the villagers of a blind community by three blind men teaches us to listen to the experience of others and add it to our own experience and not to rely solely on how we have perceived things.

In the above story, the three blind men have a fight - one of them says it is definitely like a snake, the next says it is definitely like a tree stump, the last refutes such absurd statements and says it is like a rope with a fly whisk on the end.

None are wrong, and though their experiences don't seem compatible, they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:41 AM

Lox, kindly don't preach AT me in regards to racial prejudice and derogatory terms until you've walked a mile and lived a year and a day in my moccasins. As I said I've been called and experienced far, far worse that 'plastic paddy'

Remember THAT one!

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Lox
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:31 PM

"kindly don't preach AT me in regards to racial prejudice and derogatory terms until you've walked a mile and lived a year and a day in my moccasins"

I'm not preaching mate.

And I'll never know what its like to walk in your moccassins.

And you'll never know what its like to walk in mine.

besides which there are many pairs of moccassins other than yours that I could wear if I wished to and each would have its own unique qualities.


I asked you not to Trivialise my experience.

Are you defending your right to do so?

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:17 AM

You may think as you wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:52 AM

Okay, enough of this hoo-hah. You people are all missin' the point. This Bogle character is a closet pervert and he is flauntin' it in fronta his audiences in code. So ya think this Plastic Paddy stuff is about imitation-Irish musicians do ya? Well, yer so wrong!

What the phrase "Plastic Paddy" really alludes to is Bogle's penchant fer paddywhackin' his casual paramour's naked behinds with a plastic paddle! That's right. You heard me. Bogle's been a paddywhackin' pervert for many a year. He keeps a couple plastic paddles tucked away in his guitar case, wrapped in a polishin' wrag. He does his show and scopes out the audience fer any potential groupies that are taken in by his idealistic soundin' antiwar songs and stuff like that. He makes out like he is a big liberal crusader, but there ain't much truth to that. He's really a typical Aussie headbanger and hellraiser with all the sensitivity of a drunken warthog on a night around the town.

After the show he gives out autographs and chats up the naive female fans who are taken in by his smarmy act. Then he lures 'em back to his hotel room where there are mirrors on all the walls and ceilings. Then the fun begins. Out come the paddles. Whack! Whack! Whack! All night long.

Yes, this is the perverse life of a well-known folksinger.....and that's not all! Bogle also likes runnin' over cats with his all-terrain SUV, and he cruises the lonely roads in the Australian Outback, endin' the lives of feral cats, kangaroos, wallabies, platypuses, and any other animals unlucky enough to be crossin' the road when Eric Bogle motors through!

The man is a menace. Somebody has gotta put a stop to his shenanigans.

Hmmm. "Shenanigans." Now there's a great Irish word that don't get used much lately...

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 12:12 PM

?

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Lox
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 04:09 PM

Rifleman,

I didn't express a point of view, I asked a question.

To be fair, your response tells me that you don't wish to press the point and I likewise don't wish to argue it. I think our common ground in recent threads has far outweighed our differences.

All the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 08:57 AM

Being British-Born (and not actually having a problem with it) of Irish parents I've long become immune to the 'Plastic Paddy' line. What I've found is it's often used by mediocrities whose only claim to any kind of 'credibility' is the fact that they were born somewhere on the Island of Ireland - which is hardly something they can take any credit for.

A mate of mine prefers to describe himself as 'FBI' - Foreign Born Irish!

I like that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:04 AM

I `ad that Eric Bogle in my cab the other day. `e was looking quite chipper and asked me to take `im to a club in `ammersmith.
I said, "`ere Eric, you`d best keep you `ead down a while. They`ve all gone into one about that "Plastic Paddy" song. Whatever prompted you to write it?".
`e said, "Well, I was in this pub called the "`Dublin `ound" and they was all singing that "Danny Boy". I said to `em, `That`s a great song, it`s about the Old Country, ennit?`"
They said , " No it aint. It`s about a bloke who `ad a strip club in London!!"

Whaddam I like??

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:11 AM

"To be fair, your response tells me that you don't wish to press the point"

No, No, my response means quite simply, You Can think whatever you want about me, I simply don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:42 AM

That's exactly how I feel about the more contentious sods who burden me with their pent-up hostility from time to time on this forum. ;-) I don't fecking care.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:45 AM

I hardly think that Lox fits into that category.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:53 PM

several years ago as I was playing fiddle at a session (here in Vancouver)
An Irish fellow (non-musician) who sat beside us mentioned that he enjoyed my playing, and said I had the East Clare style down quite well etc. But When he asked where I was from and found I wasn't Irish he said, so you're a Plastic Paddy then - And Id never heard the term but thought it was a bit pejorative. The implication is that you are a wannabe Irish, and that deep down, you really should be Irish to be playing Trad Irish music.

(And it obviously doesnt work the other way, as American Country Music seems to be hugely popular in Ireland, you turn on the radio and it Big Tom or such like while traditional Irish is far down on the list of popular music styles)

Still there is some resentment of foreign players, when I asked one of my (Irish) music friends (I use the term advisedly) about where to find good sessions in Ireland - he said (without apparent irony) you don't want to go to Doolin because that's where all the feckin' foreigners go....

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:21 PM

I think we need to register our complaints in person when this slur occurs. ANd it is meant to shame people, have no doubt. At the very least you can say ouch and register that you do not find this a nice name to be called. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 08:28 PM

"I simply don't care"

Yes I see - that explains your enthusiasm for commenting earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 08:47 PM

I wasn't implying that Lox does fit into that category, "meself". I was just speaking in general terms, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: heric
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 10:54 PM

I saw some Irish kids "break dancing" in Dublin in the eighties. It was hard not to feel a just a little sorry for them. Kept it to myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: goatfell
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 04:03 AM

yes

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:31 AM

I think this might be like other fields, where the more you learn the more you find there is to know.
So people who don't care much about it may think shamrocks and Danny boy sums up Irishness. And no harm in that.
We went to a workshop at a folk festival and learnt Irish Dancing. Then we went to another, at another festival and found that what we were taught was completely different. We now know that the varieties are almost endless, from step dancing of all sorts (not just the 'River Dance' kind), Ceilidh dance, Set dancing (the use of the term meaning dances in sets of 4 couples based on 19th century Quadrilles). And within Set Dancing there are different styles of footwork the figures are done in different ways depending on where and when the dance was collected.

Subject: RE: BS: Plastic Paddy slur
From: Ernest
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:07 AM

Eric Bogle had to use the term "Plastic Paddy" because the copyright to the term "Plastic Mick" belonged to the estate of the late Michael Jackson...

;0)
Ernest