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Bert Jansch's concertina

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Phil Edwards 19 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 07:05 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 07:15 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 08:34 AM
Vic Smith 19 Jun 09 - 08:43 AM
GeoffLawes 19 Jun 09 - 09:28 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 10:07 AM
Phil Edwards 19 Jun 09 - 10:50 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 11:01 AM
Phil Edwards 19 Jun 09 - 11:40 AM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM
The Sandman 19 Jun 09 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,lea nicholson 23 Jun 09 - 06:02 PM
The Sandman 23 Jun 09 - 06:35 PM
GUEST,richie 24 Jun 09 - 03:23 AM
GUEST,OldNicKilby 24 Jun 09 - 05:18 AM
The Sandman 24 Jun 09 - 07:53 AM
The Sandman 24 Jun 09 - 08:53 AM
Andy Jackson 24 Jun 09 - 09:15 AM
The Sandman 24 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,Edthefolkie 24 Jun 09 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,lea nicholson 29 Jun 09 - 06:04 PM
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Subject: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM

Does anyone know what kind of box Bert Jansch plays on Lord Franklin?


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 07:05 AM

I think it is someone else playing,but Iam fairly sure it is an English.
most likely people,are Lea Nicholson,or Martyn Bradley.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 07:15 AM

some songs seem to naturally fit one instrument,LordFranklin[ akaCroppyBoy]is relatively easy to play in the key of g,on a 48 key treble English.
It is track 8,[CROPPY BOY]on my cd CONCERTINAS AND,available from my website,played in the key of g major
http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6L8c2U35s&feature=channel_page
this might help you to learn it.best wishes Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 08:34 AM

I also recorded it as Lord Franklin,track 5 on my cd Nautical and,available from www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: Vic Smith
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 08:43 AM

Pip Radish wrote
"Does anyone know what kind of box Bert Jansch plays on Lord Franklin?"


I'm pretty sure that it was Lea Nicholson who played his 48 key Lachenal English concertina on Lord Franklin. At that time he was working as a sound engineer at Nic Kinsey's studio and as ended up as studio session musician on a wide range of albums from "Tubular Bells" to albums by the Dransfields. He used the studio "down time" to record his own fascinating album, "The Concertina Record"

A few days after the recording, he was doing a booking at our folk club and he said - in his utterly casual way - "I'm going to call up a guitarist to help me out on a couple of numbers....." and he was joined by Bert Jansch.

Lea no longer plays the concertina though he is still involved in music and recently has sent me some fascinating and creative electronic music that shows his attitudes to music have not undergone a radical change.

A couple of years ago I was asked to provide some previously unreleased studio tracks of Lea's playing that I had recorded for the English (Concertina) International album set.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 09:28 AM

A couple of years ago The Concertina Record by Lea Nicholson was re- released on CD for a very modest amount of money, I think it was about five quid.This is the link to the website given on the CD JAMRING WEBSITE The CD also gives an email address jayls@jamring.com and phone +44(0)1332751190
Enjoy


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 10:07 AM

so Vic, has confirmed,my original staement,Lea Nicholson.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 10:50 AM

This is the version on _Cruel Sister_ that we're talking about? The sleeve notes specifically credit Bert J. with the concertina on that track. (On the other hand, they specifically *don't* credit him with the vocals, so maybe a grain of salt is in order!)


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 11:01 AM

yes,
anyway if you learn it on the baritone concertina the fingering will be the same as the treble,so when you finally get two concertinas as most concertinists do,you can do it both ways,in the meantime I hope my version helps you to learn it.
Vic Smith,was there when they invented the wheel,so its great to have somoeone whose been around so long and was there when lea and bert played together, and can confirm it was indeed him ,useful fellow, Vic,thanks for your help.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 11:40 AM

Dick - I haven't got any kind of box as yet! I'm 90% sure it will be an English concertina I look for, & probably a baritone, but I still need to think about it some more. (There's also a small matter of a boat that needs to come in before I can justify the expense.) And I'm definitely thinking in terms of chords and drones rather than melody. Wendy Grossman's Patrick Spens is another example of the kind of accompaniment I'm thinking of, although I'll definitely have to go a bit down-market from the box she was using -

The concertina used on Sir Patrick Spens and Cameron Highlanders was a very unusual model: a 64-key Wheatstone tenor-treble in perfect condition, found for me in an attic in Denver, Colorado by Dave Ferretta sometime around 1978, when he had a music store there (does he still, anyone?). Those who know concertinas may email me and tell me that tenor-trebles have 56 keys, and they'd be right. But this one had 64 -- it went down to A below C below middle C, which is why I was able to play those low drones. It dropped a few of the higher notes, but that was fine with me as I thought they were no loss. Really more of a baritone-treble. This concertina was stolen from a gate lodge I lived in from 1983-1984 in Annamoe, Co. Wicklow, in Ireland. If you ever see it, you'll know it's the one, as my name and my old Ithaca address are stamped on the wood inside the end (unless someone's sanded it off, which I can't believe). I'd love to have it back if anyone runs across it. Steve Dickinson, who now owns the Wheatstone name, tells me there's only about a six-year wait if I want to get a replacement made...


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 12:36 PM

Pip,good.
for the record,I do not always play melody,on some of my videos,I play chords,or single line harmony.
Banks of the lee[CHORDS],Recruited collier[HARMONY LINE].Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy[chords on some verses, melody on others].Bunclody [single line harmony].April Morning, chords and harmony.
the secret of successful accompaniment [imo] is variety.
[imo]using chords and drones ARE fine as long as you dont do it all the time.
that is why I prefer guitarists who use standard tuning as well as dadgad,of course there are always exceptions,guitarists that can bring one tuning to life,without sounding cliched.
Wendys version of Patrick Spens is very enjoyable,Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 01:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0zAr1t6nTE&feature=channel_page
not a single melody note on this one all broken chords.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GUEST,lea nicholson
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 06:02 PM

Yes, it was Bert himself who played concertina on Lord Franklin. I seem to remember, although I am not certain - it was a long time ago - that it was a 48 key lachenal. It was John Renbourn who "joined me on stage". It was at the Stanford in Brighton if I remember. We almost certainly did "Lord Franklin" on that gig. John played guitar and sang, I played concertina. We did that at various gigs over the years, this may be a possible cause of confusion, but, yes, it was definitely Bert who played on that track on that album.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 06:35 PM

ha ha,so both Vic and I were wrong,thanks Lea


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GUEST,richie
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:23 AM

Nice one DICK a masterly piece of thread hijacking


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:18 AM

Yes, Dick usually manages to cock up the thread.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 07:53 AM

oldNickilby,I received this comment,on my you tube, dickmilesmusic for lord franklin
rosasomniferum (4 days ago)
0

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Thanks. Lovely rendering Dick, I'm going to learn this.

frankly,I think it is more important that someone wishes to learn a song because of my you tube,than the fact the thread has gone off at a tangent.
furthermore,if Vic and I had not mentioned Lea Nicholson ,Lea may not have posted with his correction,so what harm has been done,someone has decided to learn the song,and we now know that Bert actually played the song.
mudcat is about sharing the music ,that is what I am doing.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 08:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCibQkrl2BY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCibQkrl2BY
john renbourns version,unfortunately Berts version is not available


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 09:15 AM

Personally I find Dick's thread drift most enlightening. After a few comments on thread a drift off does no harm, you don't have to read. As a beginner Concertina player there are little nuggets of information that come up by way of conversation that may not merit individual attention. You carry on there Dick ( I have a feeling you will anyway). Just one critique, though, Handsome as you are, I would rather see the instrument and your fingers on your YouTube videos.

Andy


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 09:53 AM

I will try todo that in future Andy,mind you Inever look at my fingers when I am playing,but of course it would help concertina players,


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 01:03 PM

Lovely to see a post from you Lea, I was recently reminiscing with Steve Ashley about the Merlin's Cave club in 1973. I think I remember you playing "Coronation Scot" - or was it Fingers Thompson?


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch's concertina
From: GUEST,lea nicholson
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:04 PM

It was the Dam Busters March, and if by Fingers Thompson you mean Richard? Then it was both of us :)


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