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Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???

GUEST,technology challenged string basher 24 Jun 09 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,technology challenged string basher 24 Jun 09 - 10:50 AM
Richard Bridge 24 Jun 09 - 11:05 AM
Leadfingers 24 Jun 09 - 08:22 PM
Andy Jackson 25 Jun 09 - 10:53 AM
Willie-O 25 Jun 09 - 11:03 AM
Leadfingers 25 Jun 09 - 12:43 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Jun 09 - 01:13 PM
breezy 25 Jun 09 - 02:40 PM
Leadfingers 25 Jun 09 - 02:52 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Jun 09 - 03:00 PM
Paul Burke 25 Jun 09 - 04:07 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Jun 09 - 04:30 PM
Leadfingers 25 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Jun 09 - 05:25 PM
Tim Leaning 25 Jun 09 - 06:58 PM
Leadfingers 25 Jun 09 - 07:40 PM
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Subject: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: GUEST,technology challenged string basher
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 10:34 AM

Hi, I'm now fully aware that theres a technical difference between guitar leads
and speaker cables; and already well warned of reasons why not to get them mixed up !!!

What I need to know is where I can buy [in the UK]
a good quality short extension cable [approx 1 metre length]
fitted with male / female jack connections
to connect a separate Valve Amp head to the internal speaker of a combo Amp.

The reason is that the combo speaker has a permanently wired in short lead
that ends in a male jack that normally connects to its amp section.
But its not long enough to connect to the separate valve Amp head when I want to use that instead.

Alternatively, will a male/female mono jack plug adapter be safe to use
on a standard male/male jack speaker lead
if I cant find a purpose built converter cable ?

One final question, is there any difference between guitar amp speaker cables
and any usual PA speaker cables
[apart from the extra length for running from one side of a stage to another] ?

Obviously I want maintain best quality tone and avoid incinerating any of my amps or speakers !!!!

thanks..


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: GUEST,technology challenged string basher
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 10:50 AM

oops, meant to say:

"Alternatively, will a female/female mono jack plug adapter be safe to use" ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:05 AM

Depends on the amount of poke! Are you sure the speaker in the combo is up to the job? Often they are not. No combo will sound like a 4*12 cab anyway.

If you are set on it:

Get a non-technologically challeged friend to do a bit of soldering for you, to remove the existing jack plug, join a bit of speaker cable in, and re-attach the jack plug on the far end.

The stuff that Maplins sells as "HiFi" speaker cable will probably do.

Speaker cable is speaker cable - so long as it is heavy-duty enough. Hi Fi buffs go on for ever about "oxygen free" etc but it's mostly bullshit. For stage and PA use you can ignore it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 08:22 PM

Two Core Mains cable is perfectly good to use as speaker cable , but you CAN get losses if the Core is not thick enough , though most peope would not really notice ! The worst problem would be using too light a cable for a LOT of Output !


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 10:53 AM

I'm with you Leady baby. Ohms law and common sense conquer all.

100 Watts into 8 ohms gives a MAXIMUM current of about 3 1/2 amps. Not many mains cables can't cope with that. A reel of 1.5 sq mm twin and earth is cheap enough.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Willie-O
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:03 AM

Someone care to explain exactly what you are putting at risk, and why, if you substitute guitar cables and speaker cables for convenience or in an emergency?   I've heard it before, and been guilty, but I frankly don't understand the problem.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 12:43 PM

Instrument and Microphone cables are Shielded to stop any extranneous
Signals getting to the input . This is NOT necessary with speaker cables . So an instrument cable could be used as a speaker cable and would be safe , where using a speaker cable as an Amp Input could induce noise !


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 01:13 PM

Guitar cabs are not usually 8 ohms any more, but 4. So 100 watts (DC, ignoring capacitance effects for the moment) will be the square root of 25 - ie 5 amps.

Many guitar leads will act as fuses at that current rating!

Many bass amps are nowadays up to 1KW - so at 4 ohms that will be the square root of 250 - ie about 16 amps.

However, a halfway grunty PA rig will have about 3Kw on the subs, and the subs bridged to run at 2 ohms, so that is going to be about the square root of 1500 - ie nearly 40 amps!

Twin and earth is also not a good idea since the "twin" is usually single core. Nice and free from capacitance efects for installation work, but it tends to fatigue and break if frequently uncoiled and re-coiled (particularly the way many musicians do it).


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: breezy
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 02:40 PM

and now for the benefit of any celts in the audience, Richard Bridge will explain it in English that we can all understand!

Over to you Richard

flash git


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 02:52 PM

How many Semi Pro Folk acts are using P A at THOSE levels of power Richard ?? Or am I being Pedantic again ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 03:00 PM

I know amateur electric bands using that much grunt and more. They weren't playing folk or folk-alike, but I ahve used about 20K for some wholly amateur bands.

If you include folk-metal, I bet that Bluehorses carried over 40K.

Er - Breezy, I thought that was the English version, so maybe I should offer it to Nick Griffin??


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 04:07 PM

3kW continuous would be an RMS current of (I make it) 28A into 4 ohms. Also it's 110V, so you need well- insulated cable. RS in Britain do 6 square mm twin cable, but at £100 for 25 metres it's expensive. They do 4 sq mm a about a reel, that should do for 2kW into 4 ohm.

Remember that only heavy metal bands ever pump out full power for more than a few seconds at a time, and they don't mind their gear smoking, so you can probably get away with cheap, readily available 2.5 sq mm flex even with a largish stack.

At these currenst the connectors need to be substantial and well maintained, or you'll set something on fire.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 04:30 PM

Yep, as I said, into 2 ohms, over 40amps.

You can get a reel of 6mmsq from Thomann at a fairly sensible price (ie only one arm and one leg - about half the price of the RS if you buy a whole drum).

I did not used to rely on 2.5 for subs. OK on tops though.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM

Richard - ANYONE who gets up to THAT level of Noise and doesnt know what to do deserves any problems they get !
I took the question I was answering to be from someone at the beginner level !


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 05:25 PM

Probably right!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 06:58 PM

I dunno the tech side of it but I do know yer guitar cable melts soonest.;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar Amp speaker extension cable ???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 07:40 PM

I cant imagine any one having a HUGE PA and not having the correct speaker cables , but for low power a Guitar lead WOULD work . As Richard said though , at High Power it WOULD melt .


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