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peculiar instrumental postures

The Sandman 28 Jun 09 - 04:56 AM
Acorn4 28 Jun 09 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Russ 28 Jun 09 - 08:47 AM
Jack Campin 28 Jun 09 - 09:02 AM
TheSnail 28 Jun 09 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P) 28 Jun 09 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,Russ 28 Jun 09 - 10:48 AM
The Sandman 28 Jun 09 - 12:21 PM
open mike 28 Jun 09 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P) 28 Jun 09 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Russ 28 Jun 09 - 03:43 PM
Smokey. 28 Jun 09 - 05:49 PM
Jayto 28 Jun 09 - 06:24 PM
GUEST,open mike 28 Jun 09 - 08:19 PM
GUEST 29 Jun 09 - 09:28 AM
The Sandman 29 Jun 09 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Russ 29 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM
The Sandman 29 Jun 09 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Russ 29 Jun 09 - 03:53 PM
The Sandman 29 Jun 09 - 05:40 PM
catspaw49 29 Jun 09 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,Russ 29 Jun 09 - 05:59 PM
open mike 29 Jun 09 - 06:31 PM
Tug the Cox 29 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM
The Sandman 30 Jun 09 - 08:35 AM
Tug the Cox 30 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM
Rowan 01 Jul 09 - 02:11 AM
Jack Campin 01 Jul 09 - 03:21 AM
The Sandman 01 Jul 09 - 02:41 PM
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Subject: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 04:56 AM

this must be one of the strangest ways to try and play a fiddle. I would be rather concerned that this fiddler [not Reg Hall],Might end up with serious neck problems.
http://movies.apunkachoice.com/names/reg/reg_hall/cid_77525/videos/ceytid/cL9IZVFFefA/the-traditional-music-hour---live.html


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:20 AM

I was once talking to a fiddler who held his fiddle down on his upper arm rather than the usual under the chin posture. He said he'd started doing it when he was learning so he could hear when the neighbours were banging on the wall.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:47 AM

Captain,

Amongst the oldest traditional fiddlers I have seen in WV, the position preferred by classically trained violin players is the exception rather than the rule.

Neither of the fiddlers in the video clip would have attracted a second glance at Glenville, for example.

Check out any of the Lester McCumbers videos on Youtube.

A number of the hottest young WV traditional fiddlers also include one or more chest positions in their repertoire.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 09:02 AM

That position (with the body of the fiddle vertical) is quite common in Shetland fiddling. It puts less stress on the neck than the classical position - your neck isn't gripping it at all.

The percussionist is a bit approximate, isn't he?


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:00 AM

For the record -

Reg Hall - Fiddle
Will Duke - Concertina
Ian Salter - Fiddle
Ken Lees - Banjo
and Simon Ritchie..... who is a very good melodeon player but it was his programme so he could do what he liked.

Ian is a full time fireman and oen of the fittest folk musicialns I know.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:40 AM

Approximate? I thought he was spot on! An example to folk percussionists everywhere..

Resonance FM too! Respect.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:48 AM

The percussion sounded....appropriate.

I could not hear the banjo. Very surprising.

What style was he playing?

Russ (Permanent GUEST and banjo player)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:21 PM

personally I prefered the other clips of Reg Hall,and here are my reasons why,the instruments were balanced better,and I prefered the style,I find the tunes more interesting,and the ornamentation adds more to the music.
I found the percussion overpowering,and the lack of balance between the instruments,gives a result,that portrays english music poorly[but that is only a personal opinion,I am sure there are people who will disagree,with my opinion]
http://movies.apunkachoice.com/names/reg/reg_hall/cid_77525/videos/ceytid/2DQpATX5SgM/reg-hall-and-friends-at-the-traditional-mu


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: open mike
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 01:23 PM

in india the fiddle is often played while sitting

http://www.fiddlingaround.co.uk/india/indiaframe.html


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 01:37 PM

Not forgetting the Man in Black: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2u1SMdJ9a8


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 03:43 PM

That was different.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:49 PM

He's not dead after all then?


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Jayto
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 06:24 PM

I have seen that positioning of the fiddle here in Ky as well among older fiddle players.
cya
JT


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,open mike
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:19 PM

more pix of fiddles from india


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 09:28 AM

'Might end up with serious neck problems.' (from the first post)

I looked at the video. I think that rather than causing neck problems, his posture makes it easier on his neck.

Just yesterday I talked with a woman aged 84 who was bragging about her ability to parallel park in a tight space. She mentioned that many old people cannot turn their necks to the side (arthritis in the spine, maybe) and so have difficulty parallel parking. The fiddler in the video is probably cannot turn his head much to the side. Since he cannot turn his head to the left to hold the fiddle in place, he has moved the fiddle forward.

Moving the fiddle towards the center of the body also seems to make it easier on the right shoulder, which moves the bow.   

He should pay attention and make sure that nothing new is starting to hurt because of the new position. As a nurse I once new said, "If it hurts, quit!"

=======
When I had my piano tuned, the tuner mentioned that at every convention there is a presentation on who suffers more hearing damage, piano tuners or violinists. The violinists seem to be the unfortunate winners of the 'contest.'

Moving the fiddle towards the center of the body also makes it easier on the right shoulder, which moves the bow.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 10:45 AM

the disadavantage is that it limits the fiddler.
I have just been listening to the wonderful N Boyle,Who appears to go up to fifth position,and whose music was apparantly touched by the fairies,no wonder he delivers a rant on jungle music.
playing fiddle in first position only ,is a bit like always having sex in the missionary position,alright if you like that sort of thing.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM

Looks like it is time for this link again.

12 questions violinists ask about fiddling

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 01:38 PM

Russ,
9. What about vibrato?

You won't hear it much. Most reels are full of 16th notes played at 120 bpm, with no time for vibrato. You might use it in waltz, but all ornaments in any style are subordinate to the rhythm. If there isn't room for the ornament "in the groove" we lose the ornament rather than lose the beat.end of quote
it is accepted by most traditional musicians as suitable in airs,although most musicians use a not so wide vibrato.
whoever wrote the above,is clearly not too well acquainted with trad music,in that they have forgotten to mention airs,airs are not the same as waltzes.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:53 PM

Captain,

Good point.

But she is not talking about traditional music in general. She is talking about tradiitional fiddle music in the States.

You won't run into many airs in the repertoires of such fiddlers. I can only think of one tune that might qualify. Edn Hammons played a tune he called "Queen of the Earth, Child of the Sky." I have been told that it is a version of an Irish air called "The Blackbird."

The slowest tunes these fiddlers play are waltzes, and some of those can get a bit speedy. But even with waltzes vibrato is considered to be optionsl.

J.P. Fraley (KY) used vibrato, Ernie Carpenter (WV) didn't.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:40 PM

yes and listen to Neilidh Boyle play the slow air the blackbird,it is something else,he does bird imitations on the fiddle,in really high position.
Neilidh Boyle wrote the reel the moving cloud,but nobody plays it the way he wrote it.it has been dumbed down


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:48 PM

Birdy Boy.....You have a wonderful way of expressing nothing but opinion as surety of fact............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:59 PM

Spaw,

Behave.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: open mike
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:31 PM

http://pictureisunrelated.com/2009/05/26/vader-went-down-to-georgia/


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM

Hey guys, Reg Hall was and is a great melodeon player, with the Rakes. he plays fiddle for Bampton Morris, because they always had a fiddler ( Jinky Wells then Arnold Woodley, who also started a rival side) He's been doing it for years, he is comfortable that way, he ain't gonna get a problem. As you see from the clips above,, he can also accompany on the piano. neither the violin or the piano is his 'best' instrument. Anyone got any footage of him playing the melodeon?


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:35 AM

Tug,
I criticised the drum,and the lack of balance in the recording,my point was that I dont think the video does justice to the musicians or the music.
I have heard Will Dukes and Reg Hall on other occasions[they are good players]I said I preferred the other clips of Reg[ which was why I put the second clip up].
I know all about Reg Hall and Bampton morris.,[but unfortunately thereare no clips available on youtube of Reg in this capacity]


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM

I agree.. percussion actually vey well done, but far too fronted/loud/unbalanced. My question was actually abour Reg as a melodeon player. The only times I saw him play melodeon in bampton were INSIDE both the late lamented Eagle and Jubilee.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Rowan
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:11 AM

Both fiddle positions in Dick's first post have been frequently observed among older fiddlers in Oz; I've even seen seen the fiddle supported on the bicep of the left arm. Most of them are a generation older than me and it didn't seem to affect their playing detrimentally. Most were occupied with playing dance music and none of them thought of themselves as "violinists" though, whereas many younger players have been taught (properly?) by others more familiar with formal music education and have taken the "classical" position for granted.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 03:21 AM

Jim Eldon is a practitioner of the "fiddle on the bicep" position. Given that what he's doing is basically storytelling with fiddle accompaniment, it helps by taking the instrument away from his face.

I'm with Dick on the percussion in that clip. I don't see what it's for. What they're playing is dance music, and in my experience if there's a percussionist, that's who the dancers will be listening to. They need sharp attacks directly on the beat, not fluffy brushstrokes lagging way behind it. Any dance requiring precise footwork that was done to the music in that video would be a shambles.


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Subject: RE: peculiar instrumental postures
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:41 PM

on the subject of neilidh boyle,the clips are available at www .session .org.
they are downloads by someone called Floss The Tethers,presumably he has permission,I believe the original recordings were by Peter Kennedy.
Session >> Discussions >> Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty
Comments
Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty
Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

For your utter delectation here are some albums which were originally released by Peter Kennedy's Folktrax label. All the recordings are now out of copyright and all have been cleaned up a little.

These recordings have been copied directly from cassettes (with some tweaking of sound quality) and there's no separation within the various files between tracks.

Néillidh Boyle - http://www.sendspace.com/file/fb6ci5

Bobby Casey and Willie Clancy - http://www.sendspace.com/file/qjha4z

John Doherty - http://www.sendspace.com/file/uoc139

Some track listings are available for these recordings at http://www.folktrax-archive.org.

# Posted on June 16th 2009 by Floss the Tethers


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