The re-Imagined Village

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 03:58 AM

Sweet tobacco.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:53 AM

Stu - At home, I rarely have anything other than vegetable matter (including soya, instead of milk, in my coffee, etc.) but, if out and about, I may have whatever is going; and, speaking of "out and about," Sidmouth seems great, in more ways than one, Lizzie, and I do hope to get there one day..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:10 AM

Poem 206 of 230: MY DIET

Chasing breads, nuts, bananas,
    Red sauce, apples, sultanas,
Crackers, conserves, cucumbers,
    Pickles, porridge, pottages -

Lemon barley,
    Cocoa, coffee,
Or cups of tea.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:28 AM

Almost made it to Sidmouth on our Devon jaunt last month; got as far as Exmouth when the heavens opened driving us into the local Subway (as if we needed an excuse; thank God for Subway I say - where one can be assured of a decent sarnie at a reasonable price without speculating on what local establishments have to offer; long & bitter experience teaches us to stick to the chains!) where we re-drew our battle plan somewhat. So, no Sidmouth - but at least I got to see the celebrated Multiple-orifice Disgorgers in the church at Woodbury en route! And what a place Exeter is, where you can see stuff like THIS at head height! What a happy bunny I was that day...

And I still read that as Dickens purring in in his gravey. I was never a great one for Dickens, whilst I enjoyed elements of The Pickwick Papers in my misspent youth, and The Signalman remains one of my #1 English Ghost Stories of All Time, I find the trashy inhuman sentiments of his novels quite nauseating. I was forced to watch a recent TV adaptation of Oliver Twist the tenor of which struck as the most cynical celebration of social-class apartheid I'd ever seen. In my heart, I was following The Dodger into whatever sort of misadventures awaited him whilst horrid little Oliver gloated in his oasis of privilege. Maybe that's how we're meant to respond, but I doubt it somehow...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:38 AM

The Signalman remains one of my #1 English Ghost Stories of All Time

Indeed! My personal favourite chiller stories are still the ghost stories of MR James, but The Signalman comes close.

Mmm... might have to re-read The Tractate Middoth and Casting The Runes this evening...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 06:01 AM

Maybe I should have qualified that as #1 Favourite TV Adaptations of English Ghost Stories, for whilst Monty knocks Charlie off his perch rather (as far as he was ever one one o course, & I don't think the sentimental Victoriana of a Christmas Carol quite qualifies somehow; give me Le Fanu anyday!) I feel that it's his strengths as a writer have made the various TV adaptations problematic to say the least, much as I love them - not least the recent adaptation of View from a Hill which I found very effective! The exception, of course, is Jonathan Miller's superb adaptation that is Whistle and I'll Come to You which rides as much on Michael Hordern's superlative portrayal of Prof Parkin as it does on the stunning cinematography. Either way, it's a world away from Monty's original somehow...

I've got tapes of Michael Hordern reading the M R James stories which are an absolute delight - the very essence, indeed, of an Englishness which it would seem remains ever elusive to our hapless repatriate!

Now, it's off out in search of Ben Shaw's Dandelion & Burdock - and maybe a can of CS on CS's recommendation...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:36 AM

The Prof. Parkin character's fussiness and (perhaps) repressions were hinted at in a shaded way in James's original text - and used by Miller to give a much more sophisticated and complex reading for the TV adaptation.

I hadn't realised Michael Hordern had done the stories on tape - something else to look out for.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: folk1e
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:38 AM

Eeee, I'h remember t'first day at t'Pit ......


Me an' me father worked a 72 hour shift!
An' we walked home 42 miles in us bare feet!......

Oh yes and waggon wheels were MASSIVE!



Them was the days, eh?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM

And for those of you who love their sweeties

www.aquarterof.co.uk does nearly all the old favourites (except maltona drops :( )

If you really want a Dickens view of rurality try Pickwick Papers, particularly the cricket match with Dingley Dell

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:46 AM

Thanks for the Hordern/James tapes mention, SO'P - just got them from eBay at a very good price.

As for cricket matches in fiction, it would take a lot to beat the match in England Their England by A.G. MacDonell.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:51 AM

I see to my horror the Michael Hordern readings are no longer available. There's one copy going on Amazon for the princely sum of £29! Worth a look for the review...

Mine haven't turned up yet - a year in Fleetwood & we're still unpacking boxes. When they do, I have a mind to digitise them; I'll keep you posted...

*

Chasing breads, nuts, bananas,
    Red sauce, apples, sultanas,
Crackers, conserves, cucumbers,
    Pickles, porridge, pottages -

Basically, Kellog's Fruit & Fibre then, WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:56 AM

I see to my horror the Michael Hordern readings are no longer available. There's one copy going on Amazon for the princely sum of £29! Worth a look for the review...

Found 'em on eBay for $20 AUS incl. postage - can't be bad!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:57 AM

Excellent, Will! When I was living in Brancepeth Castle a decade ago we used to have MH reading the quote from the beginning of Rats as our answer-phone message!

Thing is, when I read Monty James I'm in a different mental place to when I listen to MH reading them. How does that work I wonder?

My MH favourite, as I recall, is The Uncommon Prayer Book - a stunning & often hilarious performance...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

I love An Episode Of Cathedral History because it's told by an old man about the days when he was a boy - so it gives us both the boy's perspective, but with the subsequent knowledge of the older man.

The description of the freed demon with red eyes roaming the close at night while the local men panick - all watched from the viewpoint of the boy from his bedroom window (clutching his dog) - is one those brrr moments when you want to be tucked up safe and cosy by the fire with the lights down low!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:42 AM

So then... once we've determined the gender of the clog-dancers and made significant improvements to the Pub Menu (a Wetherspoons franchise would be more than acceptable) and replaced those Salix sepulcralis with some proper English riverside trees (Salix fragilis I remember well from my BTCV days) The re-Imagine Village would have to have a haunted church, quite possibly an old abby, like Dore Abby, which we visited a few times whilst staying near Vowchurch in Herefordshire a couple of years ago. Whether Dore Abby has a resident demon I couldn't possibly say, but we visited the nearby Templar church at Garway which recently featured in an episode of the woeful (but mildly entertaining inspite of itself) Bonekickers (2008) as well as Phil Rickman's thoroughly splendid novel The Fabric of Sin (2007) which touches upon a real life incident in the life of M R James of which he wrote in a letter to a friend We must have offended somebody or something at Garway... Next time we shall know better. Oo-er... In any case, if you don't know Phil Rickman's Merrily Watkins Novels yet, and you've a yen for cracking English detective fiction that reads like an episode of the Vicar of Dibley has somehow morphed into Cracker (as someone said) shot through with a supporting cast folk singers, pagan teenage daughters, charming rustics, assorted ghosts and other bucolic delights - not to mention the heroine herself, a young single-mum woman priest who finds herself the Diocesan Exorcist for Hereford Cathedral - then check 'em out!

'An absolute treat... essential reading for anyone with a special interest in MR James's place in the supernatural pantheon.'   Ghosts & Scholars M R James Newsletter.

'It's Midsomer Murders on hallucinogens and it can only be a matter of time before it hits the small screen, so get in there first, folks.'    Irish Times

'Nail-biting, yet thoughtful and complex. What T.S. Eliot did for Canterbury Cathedral, Rickman does for Hereford.'   Jane Jakeman, Shotsmag.

'God alone knows, no English Village, imagined, re-imagined or otherwise, would be complete with some resident horrors residing in the wainscoting...' Suibhne O'Piobaireachd, Mudcat.

*

Further to Monty & Ebay - I bought an original 1908 edition of his paper on The Sculptured Bosses of the Bauchin Chapel of Our Lady in Norwich Cathedral off ebay for £5 a few months back.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:50 AM

Some of that sounds good, SO, and some, frankly, I wouldn't have a clue! about; as for "fibre," I shall detail my "pottages" shortly...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 11:09 AM

And having discarded as entirely bogus our E. Flutes and E. Concertinas, what then for music would we listen to in our re-Imagined Village? Well, mostly today I've been listening to some vintage vinyl featuring the music composed by Peter Maxwell Davis for his ensemble The Fires of London. Does it get any more English than that? Fair enough, he drew much of his inspiration, then as now, from his Orkney Island home, but in such works as Eight Songs for a Mad King where the tortured ravings of George III are set in a cycle of deeply affecting songs I detect a quintessential Englishness. Some of this stuff, I believe, has even made it to CD - so - do check it out, WAV; you might well find it in your local library...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

For quintessential Englishness, try:

this

this

or

this

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:58 PM

1 - Maybe; born in '61 this stuff is the Cultural Ambience of my childhood.

2 - Essential! Weirdly I was thinking about this very scene earlier this evening.

3 - Oh yes. And moreover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCaa2Dm420

Again, are you taking notes, WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:58 AM

And this... Incident On Snake Pass

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:40 AM

What is it with Snake Pass? We had some fun there on a tour a few years back getting from Sheffield to Liverpool... There must be an easier way!

Anyway, I think that serves as a more than adequate introduction to the work of our man Shuttleworth. I could well imagine him as the entertainer in the imaginary pub in our re-Imagined Village, though already I'm thinking canals rather than gently flowing rivers. This doesn't preclude the sort of bucolic picturesque idealism WAV yearns for however - for example, not far from Fleetwood, we have the re-Imagined Village that is Guy's Thatched Hamlet which I'm sure would tick all the right boxes (gliding mute swans and all) and still be the ideal venue for Mr Shuttleworth! Take the Virual Tour...

Meanwhile, if I was in charge of booking the entertainment maybe I'd go for something a little more uniquely home-grown with respect of Quintessential Englishness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H-td43zcQg

*

Otherwise, something English, Quintessential, and Very Special Indeed. We will, I fear, never see his like again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACm2wGbpu4A

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:44 AM

As I've said, Ed, The Beatles were very good at copying an aspect of American culture, rather than getting stuck into their own good English folk music - as, of course, quite a few other English did during the folk-revival of the 60s.

This may not be Shuttleworth's culinary fancy, but to shed some light on the fibre/pottages issue above...

Poem 93 of 230: ONE-POT COOKING

While living as a bachelor,
    I've cooked in just one pot -
Cast iron with a wooden handle,
    It can hold quite a lot:

Slices of potato and carrot
    Are boiled a while,
Before a thinly-chopped onion
    Is mixed with the pile;

Then I drain off most of the water,
    Add canned lentils and beans,
Stir with spice and tomato sauce -
    To an end, it's a means.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

PS: of late it's even simpler - cup of soup, beans, lettuce/cucumber, diced onion, plus toast.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

And talking of Viv and Sir Henry, who might the Morris Men be at 1:09 in Viv Stanshall's week: 3?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:13 AM

Re: "the re-Imagined Village that is Guy's Thatched Hamlet" (SO)...canny website, and, yes, I'd be quite happy at that outdoor table with a glass of mead, or, indeed, in that houseboat with a pair of clogs!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:33 AM

In part three of Vivian Stanshall's week (at around 1.02) one can see an unnamed Morris Side, complete with Hobby Horse, dancing in Paddington Station before heading off down The Underground. Viv looks on delighted, of course, blowing them kisses as they depart!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0U1AeS5Cow

In part two (at 6.00) we see Viv visiting instrument maker Michael Lynch who made Jake Walton's wee hudry-gurdy as featured on Times and Traditions for Dulcimer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3RVr1f9abM

*

Interestingly, or not, whilst submitting a friend request to Wigan Folk Club earlier this very morning I see our Hapless Repatriate left them the same calling card in their comments box on the 27th June 2009 as he did on the 6th of Feb 2008. Methinks perhaps some new material is in order, WAV - not least your above line about The Beatles copying an aspect of American culture which is about as accurate as your notions of their own good English folk music.

We don't have any good (i.e. real) English folk music, rather we have the results of two highly specialised and agenda driven revivals of something that might not have existed in the first place. In this respect what The Beatles did is of greater Cultural Authenticity in terms of Cultural Migration & Transfiguration than anything produced by either of the 20th century Folk Revivals, especially with respect to the socio-economic context of Folk Music as perceived to have existed in the first instance. Its collection was selective, biased, and subject to endless improvement on the part of the collectors. Thus Revival Folk Music is The Imagined Village; it only exists by dint of its gauche & pedantic self-consciousness wherein the change & mutability enshrined by Maud Karpeles in her 1954 Definition becomes, as a consequence, fossilised by those seeking to somehow preserve it terms of material evidence for a process they freely admit is no longer taking place. In this respect I'd say what The Beatles were part of is of greater folkloric significance than anything we might encounter in either of the 20th Century so-called Folk Revivals and is, therefore, more deserving of being Their Own Good Folk Music.

Now, back to Part Three of Vivian Stanshall's Week....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:34 AM

Cross post on that one, Will! Hopefully someone will provide the answer!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:47 AM

Beaux of London City Morris Men.

And Mongezi Feza...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:09 AM

This my idea of England - in particular

http://www.england-in-particular.info/

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

Yup, their Green Man Page just about sums it up -

The Green Man is alive and well and can be found all over the country... You may know him as the Green Knight or Robin Hood, you will still see him around May Day as Jack in the Green, in Mumming plays and Morris dancing and maybe as the Green George, a relative of St George...

In parish churches and cathedrals look for him as a leafy head in roof bosses... misericords and bench ends...

However you see him, as a benign spirit, guardian of the female forests, symbol of new life and hope in spring, a signifier of regeneration, you will feel his presence in our ancient woods and forests... He has been our cultural companion for millennia, reminding us of our close relationship with nature...

Happily, such bullshit is by way of post-modern fakelore. Unhappily, it has become the all-prevailing orthodoxy as the true wonders of The Green Man are overlooked. Whatever the case - and whatever you might wish to call them - the Green Man carvings are in no way, shape or form unique to England, and predate by some centuries any folkloric associations (pub names, Jacks-in-the-Green etc.) only very recently imagined: in academia 1939; in popular culture around 1970.

This is the Fakelore of The re-Imagined Village; in the church adjoining our waterside village pub (perhaps our fake pub is called The Green Man, after that in The Wicker Man?) we might gaze in wonder at the tortured disgorging features of the foliate heads carved on the bench-ends (such as we see HERE: Benchend, 1534, The Church of the Holy Ghost, Crowcombe, Somerset, 13th June 2009) only to be told by the helpful imaginary guide sheet that we are, in fact, seeing a benign spirit, guardian of the female forests, symbol of new life and hope in spring, a signifier of regeneration etc. etc..

In The re-Imagined Village, Frazerian perspectives of Folklore are of greater importance to the Anglican Church than the theology of the faith they superseded, in which case it no surprise to find that the master-carver of the above linked image has been so keen to leave us the date of its execution! In The re-Imagined Village, the wayward & often hilarious perceptions of our Hapless Repatriate are often no more wayward & hilarious than those of the natives with whom he seeks to assimilate. Like Folk Music however, Folklore is just as illusory...

Now for an imaginary glass of Dandelion & Burdock. Phew! What a scorcher!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:54 AM

"Yup, their Green Man Page just about sums it up"


No, it doesn't, actually. If you could get over yourself and curb your unmitigated arrogance for long enough to see the whole picture, rather than your short-sighted view, you would realise that it is about celebrating the diversity of England in its entirety – the commonplace, the local, the vernacular and the distinctive. The book, England-In-Particular, has been compiled by contributors who know far, far more about England than you ever will, despite your pseudo-intellectual and self-congratulatory ranting and pontificating. But, hey, why let the facts get in the way of your prejudices?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:22 AM

But, hey, why let the facts get in the way of your prejudices?

Wind in your neck, TL - and for your information those are facts, unlike the unsubstantiated bollocks promoted over at England in Particular. In any case, as I say, there is nothing particularly English (or even British) about so-called Green Men - ecclesiastical, folkloric or otherwise. Fact. Even the carvings that inspired Lady Raglan's wayward Green Man thesis are in Wales.

As for celebrating the diversity of England in its entirety, as an English person born and bred, when I find myself looking upon such a sight with a crippling sense of utter & absolute alienation I might question the nature of the diversity thus espoused. Have a look at the alphabet - the pics in which are either Shaftesbury or Covent Garden! Hardly a celebration of diversity - cultural, ethnic, regional, historical or otherwise.

Not my England at all I'm afraid...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:37 AM

I think the idea of the ABC is capture a hint of the typographical diversity of a given area in the hope it might provide a hint of the character of the area, or give some oblique insight into the way a specific area of human habitation has evolved. I've seen similar things done with phone boxes, manhole covers and pairs of trainers dangling from phone lines and each one is a celebration of a very particular cultural location; the deposition of one minute part of the cultural strata.

Does it capture that particular area? In a way it does but then I'm a graphic designer and these things interest me; the subtle cultural undercurrents and eddy's ever-present and ever-changing that seem lost in the stream of information we absorb (or otherwise) as it enters our visual cortex and thence our subconscious.

If any of us have ever walked down Shaftesbury Avenue or pottered around Covent Garden chances are we've seen one of these letters and that makes them very much a part of our England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:06 AM

"and for your information those are facts"

Well, I couldn't comment on that as, unlike you, I don't pretend to be an expert on that particular subject. I assume that you have read the England-In-Particular book - or are you, like the literary critic who writes a review of a novel after reading only the first page, basing your opinion purely on your own prejudices and assumptions? If ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy person. Or perhaps you are also an 'expert' on apples, crinkle crankle walls, power stations, diwali or all the other many subjects covered by the book.

Whether this is your cup of tea or not is, quite frankly, immaterial to me. My purpose was to tell people who may be interested in such things that there is an interesting and ejoyable book that celebrates a real England that is far more interesting and diverse than the stereotypical view put forward by the OP.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:53 AM

that is far more interesting and diverse than the stereotypical view put forward by the OP.

I've never read - or even heard of - the book, but from the website I'd say they have as stereotypically erroneous a vision of Englishness as WAV. In my own area of specialism - i.e. The Green Man - I can say they are way off the mark, however so well-in with the erroneous orthodoxy which, at a very generous stretch, only goes back as far as 1939 with most of the thinking on the subject coming in after 1970. Again, what I say here isn't by way of prejudice or assumption, rather the hard & unrelenting facts of the matter which do not support the folkloric / pagan hypothesis no matter deeply entrenched in the popular imagination this might have become in the last twenty-five years or so. Just as Ring-a-Rosies isn't a reportage on the symptoms of the Black Death and The Allendale Tar Barrels aren't a survival of a pagan fire festival, so the Green Man is none of the things England in Particular say it is.

Otherwise - I like power stations too, be they coal-fired, nuclear, wind powered or whatever. Blyth A & B was a particular favourite - for my personal paean on her sorry demise see HERE. I didn't see any indication of power stations on the England in Particular website though, much less any reflection of England as a multi-ethnic country, such as your mention of diwali would indicate. Perhaps you might be so good as to provide links if I've overlooked them? Otherwise, I will look out for the book - God knows I could do with some light relief after slowly picking my way through Bob Trubshaw's Explore Folklore this past month or so.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:08 AM

"yes, I'd be quite happy at that outdoor table with a glass of mead, or, indeed, in that houseboat with a pair of clogs"

I really feel that this walking stereotype is yanking our chains. This England has never existed and never will exist, except in the minds of dreamers and xenophobes.

As one of my children is wont to say, England has so many colours it makes Crayola jealous.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:22 AM

My very real village, is full of vast black 4x4's, forty/fifty-sumthing wannabe 'posh spice' styled women (dyed dark-brown and wearing big black sunglasses), estates of faux-classical executive houses (one where the old sports field & kiddies swings used to be...), and a few actually rather lovely but private woodlands (a massive faux-Tudor mansion was built in one some years back - with Dobermans and security gates and all).

Needless to say, I'm increasingly itchy to move to my own idyllic imaginary village in Suffolk with woods & fields you can ramble through, a fantasy English pub that serves chips with everything and has make-believe Aspall cider on tap - even a folk club with imaginary fusty smelly old people would be quite nice...

In certain circumstances, escapism into romantic nonny-nonny land, is perhaps forgivable SO'P?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM

"Perhaps you might be so good as to provide links if I've overlooked them?"

Sorry, you'll have to buy the book. This volume was partly the idea of my old friend, Roger Deakin, who was also the co-founder of Common Ground, who published it, and was also a contributor to the book. Roger, who sadly died in 2006, was one of the best modern writers on the countryside and has been compared to Richard Jefferies and Willam Cobbett. Deatils of his work, legtacy and an insight into his thinking and personality can be found here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/roger-deakin-412989.html

and here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2006/aug/29/guardianobituaries.environment

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:35 AM

legtacy = legacy

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:50 AM

"an English person born and bred"

Oh really? with a name like Suibhne O'Piobaireachd you must REALLY be proud to be English, so keep YOUR bollocks to yourself!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

Oh yeah, we now have a beauty parlor, where the dear dusty old shambolic grocers used to be. Fences going up enclosing all the footpaths. The farm shop up the road has been shut down, because the crooked Tory council deemed it an 'eyesore', but at least we have a spanking new health club with sauna & wine bar!!

Though rather mysteriously, we still don't have any of those funny looking Johnny Foreigner types spoiling everything 'English'.

I think I'm deffo off for a jaunt in escapist imaginary village land... Where's my trusty Enid Blyton?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:01 PM

This thread has by now surely earned a trip downstairs.

BS it is

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:07 PM

"BS it is"

Then don't take part:-)

Charlie (a short form of my first name)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

We're lucky that in our village we still have a varied cross-section of people, from young families to old folks in sheltered accommodation and everything in between. Most of the villagers live in modest dwellings and there is a big vicarage opposite the church (the jazz festival is held on the vicarage lawn each year). we do have some posh people but most of the parish is arable land that goes as far as the moors of the peak district.

No village green as such, and the rivers (complete with Dippers and brown trout) don't go close to the pubs. So not quite WAV's vision of an English village but at least it's real.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Guy's is a good example of a purpose built imitation pub/pizza parlour. Can't remember just when building commenced - I think around 1980.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:49 PM

In certain circumstances, escapism into romantic nonny-nonny land, is perhaps forgivable SO'P?

Forgiveable? I think it should be mandatory, CS - hence my contribution to & encouragement of this thread. Vivian Stanshall was the Greatest English Dreamer of them all!

Oh really? with a name like Suibhne O'Piobaireachd you must REALLY be proud to be English

Thing is, Rifleman - although sadly Suibhne O'Piobaireachd is only a pseudonym, like a lot of other English people my real name isn't particularly English-sounding either, though I am English, as I say, born and bred, and quite proud of the fact too. Obviously this creates a problem regarding the limits of Englishness, because although I say it's not an English-sounding name, being Irish Gaelic, it is my name nevertheless, so an English name by default I'd say.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:24 PM

SO'P: I must admit to finding your current ID just way beyond my polite inclinations to even attempt to spell correctly. So in my head, I tend to think of you in terms of your previous explanation of SO'P as "Mad Bird King" (something I can spell without trouble.)

The shortened SO'P, also means something akin to 'wet and floppy', thus not generally a 'good' thing? Not too sold on the current ID.. Hmmmm.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:10 PM

Not too sold on the current ID.. Hmmmm.

Thing is, CS - I can't change my Mudcat ID again because I've been threatened with violent expulsion if I do. So this is it - for keeps - so - suggest you resort to cut & paste. It doesn't even make good anagrams, apart from the vaguely topical (by otherwise nonsensical) A Cabbie Horehound I Sip. So Horehound I'll accept, but only from you!

Suibhne was the Mad Bird King; Piobaireachd is the classical music of the highland bagpipes that used to blow my mind in childhood & still does to this day. Hugely inspirational on my musical concept in terms of duration, improvisation, droning modality and disconcerting eventlessness. So I see the name in Shamanic / Gnostic terms: Human Bird Trips out to the Great Music.

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG42CtJmOjE

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

The "Green Man" entry in the book England in Particular (which I've got on my knee as I type) treats the Green Man, Jack in the Green and the Green Knight as different things, doesn't refer to Lady Raglan and does point out that "green men" can be found in a lot of different countries. It's got definite "pagan survival" leanings, but it's actually pretty cautious. Closing quote:

"THe tree in its deciduous forms symbolises the cycle of death and rebirth, re-enacted each year as leaves fall and grow again. The Green Man has emerged in our time as a symbol of reconnection with nature, of regeneration and hope."

(Note the words "in our time".)

Great book. It's not academically rigorous, but it's not fakelore either.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:04 PM

So we've reached the point of near total post-modern abstraction where even the very trees have become symbolic of wishy-washy notions of death and rebirth!

Thanks, Pip, but I think I'll pass on that one. Forgive me, I suddenly feel the need to get very drunk indeed!

I'm going to form a band called The re-Imagined Village People; membership open to all but I'm gonna be The Cowboy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49jHz1M9nM

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:22 PM

Ahhh...death and rebirth, eh?(reaches for well-thumbed copy of The White Goddess and another glass of wine.)