Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'

Subject: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:16 AM

That's what they said in 1965 reprinted guardian article

Was anyone at the Keele festival?

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:39 AM

I went to Keele. I was also at Dylan and Rolling Stones concerts at around that time.
If there was anything like Keele today, I'd go. I still go to Dylan/ Stones/Cohen.
The point is?

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 09:24 AM

Well............he was wrong, wasn't he?
Around that time it appeared to be almost a Mantra around some of the folk clubs to vehmently affirm that they didn't promote Bob Dylan songs in their establishment.
I too saw Dylan in 1965 (in Newcastle) and to this day it remains the best performance by anyone that I have seen. I'm still going to folk clubs as well.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: GUEST,who ? what ? when ?
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:00 AM

well.. ermm.. maybe...

considering how much grass most of Bob's fans have smoked over the last 40 years..

..very strong possibility many of them can't even remember much
about anybody or anything even right now...

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Midchuck
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:18 AM

considering how much grass most of Bob's fans have smoked over the last 40 years..

..very strong possibility many of them can't even remember much
about anybody or anything even right now...

I don't know. Jerry Garcia's been dead almost 14 years, and a lot of people still seem to remember him - and I think his fans outdid Dylan's in that department.

What's amazing about Dylan is that he's alive. He's older than ME, for chrissakes. Of course, I didn't do any drugs except good 'ol caffeine and alcohol, and stayed upright on those occasions when I rode motorcycles, and didn't have any crazy fans (since I didn't have any fans). But his survival is sort of a miracle.

Peter

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:19 AM

Dylan who?

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:31 AM

What was actually said was that his PROTESY songs would be forgotten in 40yrs. Well the times may be a changing, but his words are still blowing in the wind, which is good, as government's still believe that God is on their side, which is positively fourth stret.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Arkie
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM

Dylan is not only remembered he is still creating and unlike some other songwriters he is actually creating and not rewriting the same song over and over.

I am assuming the comment lumping all those who respect and enjoy Dylan's music as druggies was an attempt at humor. I've usually associated the Dylan crowd with intelligence.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 01:29 PM

Micheal Drewdney was right in one respect,Bob Dylan is a capitalist,but one with a conscience.
He is a pop folk singer,he is a good songwriter,a reasonable singer despite his lack of vocal range,and someone who has probably done a lot to popularise folk music.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 04:45 PM

There are times, when yet another strummer starts up in the pub that one could wish...

But there's room for everyone. Martin Carthy and Jim Causley.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: melodeonboy
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 05:37 PM

Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'

Quite possibly; but Zebedee and Dougal will live forever!

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Joe_F
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 05:47 PM

Round about 1965, a friend of mine, an "I can get it for you wholesale" type with a Brooklyn accent to match, was trying to persuade me to buy a turntable. I was dubious, but then I reflected that if I had a turntable I could listen to Bob Dylan any time I wanted, so I went ahead -- stipulating, however, that my friend wire the channels together so I didn't need more than one loudspeaker (I thought stereo was fashionable frippery).

In the ensuing 40-odd years I have not exactly forgotten Mr Dylan, but his original charm -- the spectacle of an actual human voice coming out of a loudspeaker -- has worn rather thin. I still like "Boots of Spanish Leather" & appreciate the intent, at least, of "Chimes of Freedom". For the rest, he will do, once or twice a year, to wash the dishes by. But where possible I prefer the spectacle of an actual human voice coming out of an actual human being, even if it is only me.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 06:07 PM

What ignorance about capitalism. Dylan sells his labour power, others make profit from it. Someone who EARNS money is NOT a capitalist ( though they may be greedy) a Capitalist, by definition, takes an unearned income from the investment of capital.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 06:48 PM

So, does anybody know Michael Dowdney who made the comment? Be interesting to get his views today. Someobody must know him, if he's still with us. It says he was running the West Country Folk Club in 1965. Anybody know of it?

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 07:14 PM

I can remember someone else about whom someone said:-

"He'll never get anywhere with a name like that!"

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 07:22 PM

Acorn4 - I believe the person you're referring to was the American performer Penis Van Lesbian.

And he didn't get anywhere until he changed his name to Dick Van Dyke.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:14 PM

Dylan makes profit from his labours,his songwriting and his performing,he has also profited from nicking someone else song,Dont Think Twice its Alright,he has still writen some good songs of his own.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: GUEST,Gerry (channelling Paul Simon)
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:19 AM

Silas - I think they're talking about Dylan Thomas. Whoever he was.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: GUEST,Bluesman James
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 07:02 AM

I think the "cult of personality" around Dylan is gone. We don't have folks like A.J.Weberman going through his garbage anymore (Thank God!)
I think thats a good thing. I think his most recent recordings are excellent and his tours are doing well. He is not dead but the cult of personality is gone

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Andrez
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 08:23 AM

Some would say that Dylan was the Michael Jackson of the sixties. In that vein its a scary thought that Michael Jackson might still be remembered in 40 or 50 years. Glad I wont be around!

:-)

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: paula t
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:15 AM

Hi Captain Birdseye,

I'm intrigued now. Who wrote "Don't think twice"?I've tried googling it, but keep getting Bob Dylan.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:31 AM

The melody and some lyrics are faintly reminiscent of Paul Clayton's Who's gonna buy you ribbons when I'm gone?

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:52 AM

They said I'd be forgotten 40yrs ago, but nobody knew me then either!

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

Borchester ,a bit more than that,
I believe there was a settlement by Dylan,and that Dylan actually said I am going to use that[or words to that effect],there are existing threads about it here on mudcat,check it out, Diane.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 12:38 PM

Clayton helped Arthur Kyle Davis, Jr., who published Folk-Songs of Virginia: A Descriptive Index and Classification to collect more folk music from this region and tape copies of the earlier aluminum disk recordings for preservation. He assisted Davis in publishing More Traditional Ballads of Virginia in 1960[2]. Clayton also recorded music for the archives of the Flanders Ballad Collection, Middlebury College, the BBC collection, and the Archive of American Folksong at the Library of Congress during the 1950s. Clayton was part of a bluegrass group called the Dixie Mountain Boys with banjoist Johnny Clark and folksingers Bill Clifton and Dave Sadler. They signed a contract with Blue Ridge Records and appeared on the Wheeling Jamboree radio barn dance program.

[edit] References by other artists

It is alleged that Joni Mitchell's "Blue" and Bob Dylan's "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" are about Clayton, though Dylan has denied this.[3] Dylan made a guest appearance at a 1961 Clayton concert at the Showboat Lounge in Washington.[2]

[edit] Alleged plagiarism

In "Hoot! A 25-Year History of the Greenwich Village Music Scene", author Robbie Woliver described how Clayton's "Who's Gonna Buy Your Ribbons When I'm Gone" morphed into Dylan's "Don't Think Twice":
"         I (Barry Kornfeld) was with Paul one day, and Dylan wanders by and says, 'Hey, man, that's a great song. I'm going to use that song.' And he wrote a far better song, a much more interesting song -- "Don't Think Twice.         "

Dylan's and Clayton's publishing companies sued each other over this plagiarism, and it was revealed that Clayton's song was similar to another entitled "Who's Gonna Buy Your Chickens When I'm Gone", which was in the public domain. So, in effect, everything that Dylan took was actually public domain. According to Woliver, the lawsuits did not affect the friendship of the songwriters.

In the notes to Biograph (album) (1985), Dylan acknowledges that "Don't Think Twice was a riff that Paul [Clayton] had." He also credits him for the melody line to "Percy's Song".[4]

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:36 PM

Andrez, Michael jackson was the Michael jackson of the sixties.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:23 PM

see the thread, in defense of dont think twice its alright.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:54 PM

Here's the link to the thread mentioned.......Well worth reading......In Defense of Don't Think Twice

Spaw

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM

I suspect that the "forgotten" quote was less a matter of prophesy and more a case of wishful thinking.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 03:56 AM

Who actually keeps the memory of any artist ( in the widest sense) alive? Who, for example, kept Bach's music alive? Now that is an interesting question, because Bach's music almost died with him but was revived 50 years and more after his death by other musicians. Also, Scott Joplin's music had all but been forgotten until the movie "The Sting" created a hugh revival of interest. Dylan fans probably think that Bob's musical/lyrical statements are so strong that they will stand the test of time. Maybe. But have been many fantastic musicians along the way who are all but forgotten now. For example, when I was a lad(in the 50s), the name Paderewski was still being thrown around as an example of musical genius (much like Mozart and Beethoven). But today, very few people under 50 today would recognise that name.

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Andrez
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 06:28 PM

Thanks for that blinding flash of logic "Tug". I stand corrected and blushing!

Now do you have any suggestions on how to fix global warming, the global financial crisis or how to minimise the impact of accordion players and unlicensed bodhran players on a session ?

:-)

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Dylan - 'forgotten in 40 yrs'
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 06:50 AM

Well I remember the 60's and Dylan. And didn't partake of anything that would have affected my memory - cider doesn't count - it is vitamin C (preserved).
At the time I would not have worried about remembering Dylan in 40 years, though I would expect to.

It took until the 70's for me to venture into Folk Clubs and though Dylan still has integrity I would not rush to listen to his recent songs.

Dylan's songs from the 60's mean more to me than most pop fodder from that era.