childrens rhymes taught or caught

Subject: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:21 AM

The recent 'Cookie Jar' thread set me thinking

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:48 AM

Woops, pressed wrong button

Cookie Jar thread

It seems to me that there are some rhymes and games that adults teach to children, others that they pass on in the playground or whisper in class.

It starts as babies with nursery rhymes (Mother Goose).
Then at with Playgroup action songs (Wheel on the Bus, 5 Little Ducks, Going to the Zoo, Peter Hammers with 1 hammer). Often songs with an educational content.
As an older child / young teenager we used to have childrens parties where an adult would organise games for the guests. In these more affluent days a hall and an entertainer or disco is usually hired. But we had games. Oranges and Lemons, Ring a Roses, Farmers in his Den for the tinies; games like Freeman, Hardy & Wills or Fuzz & Buzz which tested speed and memory for older children, (as a rest from the runnig round the house following clues type of game like Staions or House Hunting)
Any adult with a group of children to entertain and keep in order will find these rhymes and games a useful tool. And we were happy to play them.

But they weren't the games and rhymes we used at playtime.
They were the chants for skipping and ball throwing games. I can't think of examples at the moment, so over to you and I'll come back later.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Susan of DT
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 08:58 AM

I agree, Mo. The organized group games are taught by an adult leader and the playground/rope/ball rhymes are caught from friends.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 09:43 AM

I don't think there is much overlap, where things are learnt from adults and passed on by children.
The exceptions might be the Back of the Bus songs, and the Nonsens rhymes.
I remember hearing versions of I Went to the Picture Tomorrow from my mother and from a classmate.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 10:21 AM

I don't think that there is a lot of adult directed passing on to children of singing games among Americans of which ever race/ethnicity. These games are usually thought to be too "babyish" for children over pre-school ages (age 4 years).

It's been my experience (as a person who directed game song groups within predominately African American communities in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area and who in the late 1990s and early 2000s faciliated workshops on integrating music into the pre-school/day care environment) that few pre-school teachers or day care providers know many singing games. The only games two games that seem to be known among Black American and also among White American pre-school teachers, day care providers, and parents are "Ring Around The Rosie" and "Hokey Pokey".

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:33 AM

If they were on the school curriculum they wopuld be extinct by now. Kids LOVE things that adults don't know.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 11:46 AM

Yes, but I think that as far as American children are concerned, many of the old singing games are extinct.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: GUEST,KittenFu
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM

I used to play all those clapping/rythym games and here are a few of the rhymes. Sorry no sound.
Start a rythym and go with it except where indicated
"I went to a Chinese restaurant
to buy a loaf of bread, bread, bread (clap on each "bread")
And this is what he said, said, said (again clap on the "saids")
(at double pace)
My name is e-i e-i, nick-in-i, nick-in-i
pom-pom pooey, walla walla whiskers
(repeat),
My name is chief where's the beef (stop, point behind yourself and make a raspberry). My sister and I can still do it.
"Cinderella, dressed in yella',
went upstairs to kiss her fella,
made a mistake and kissed a snake.
How many doctors did it take?
(At this point close your eyes and try to continue blind while counting as high as you can before messing up). I got to 84 once.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: KittenFu
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 02:12 PM

I just joined, but I also remembered another one. It was used for clapping games and jump rope.
"Ice cream, soda, lemon-ade,
tell me the initials of your boyfriend's name.
Is it a..b..c..d..etc.."
you keep going while speeding up the rythym and the letter you land on is your supposed boyfriend's initial which you and your friends spend a few minutes giggling and teasing over.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 03:19 PM

Hello, KittenFu. Welcome to Mudcat!

Thanks for sharing those examples of children's rhymes. Thanks also for including information about how you performed those particular rhymes.

Particularly because Mudcat is an international discussion forum, it's also helpful to include demographical information such as

Where the rhyme was/is performed-(city/state if in the USA, or at least city and country if outside the USA)

When you learned, read, or observed the rhyme (year or decade such as late 1980s or 2003)

Who perform/ed the rhyme (ages and gender/s; I also include race/ethncity because I'm interested in documenting if there are differences between the types of rhymes known by different races/ethnic groups [meaning Latinos in the USA] But most people don't include race/ethnicity in the demographical information that they provide

and

How the rhyme is [was] performed-categories such as hand clapping, circle game, etc

**

Please don't interprete this as a diss. Many people who post to children's rhymes don't include demographical information. One reason for that is after a while we get to know where the other posters live. For instance, I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Susan of DT (the "DT" stands for the "Digital Tradition", a great listing of song lyrics that Susan started and is still compiling) lives in the USA, Mo lives in Great Britain, and if I'm not mistaken Tug the Cox does too.

BTW, Mudcat has a lot of children's rhymes-see this thread and the links to other threads that are listed above it's title.

thread.cfm?threadid=4300#23217
Children's Street Songs

And that kist isn't even half the number of Mudcat threads on children's rhymes and cheers :o)

Enjoy!

Azizi

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 03:23 PM

I typed "kist" but I meant "list".

**

Also, I mistakenly linked to a post instead of the beginning of that thread. When you get on that page, scroll up to see the hyperlink list of other discussions on children's rhymes.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Jul 09 - 03:25 PM

Azizi, of course many of the old rhymes are extinct, was always thus. new ones and suprising variations always occur. Its just a matter of sentiment whether you prefer the rhymes your grandma sang as a kid,or the ones your grandchildren sing now. Always good to keep a record of the o;d stuff, just don't try to stuff'em down kids throats.

Subject: RE: childrens rhymes taught or caught
From: KittenFu
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 09:13 PM

It's been awhile, sorry.

I'm from Northern Texas, smack in the middle of the Panhandle of TX.