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Recording a Guitar Question

olddude 21 Jul 09 - 06:32 PM
Amos 21 Jul 09 - 07:14 PM
olddude 21 Jul 09 - 07:14 PM
Leadfingers 21 Jul 09 - 07:15 PM
olddude 21 Jul 09 - 07:15 PM
GUEST 21 Jul 09 - 07:37 PM
olddude 21 Jul 09 - 09:11 PM
olddude 21 Jul 09 - 09:56 PM
Will Fly 22 Jul 09 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,QTWF 22 Jul 09 - 01:14 PM
Stringsinger 22 Jul 09 - 01:39 PM
olddude 22 Jul 09 - 08:49 PM
olddude 22 Jul 09 - 08:59 PM
Tim Leaning 23 Jul 09 - 01:50 AM
olddude 23 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM
Will Fly 23 Jul 09 - 07:47 AM
Tim Leaning 23 Jul 09 - 08:26 AM
olddude 23 Jul 09 - 10:22 AM
Will Fly 23 Jul 09 - 10:27 AM
olddude 23 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jul 09 - 10:58 AM
olddude 23 Jul 09 - 12:26 PM
matt milton 23 Jul 09 - 12:57 PM
Tim Leaning 25 Jul 09 - 12:09 PM
olddude 25 Jul 09 - 12:20 PM
Bernard 25 Jul 09 - 01:16 PM
olddude 25 Jul 09 - 01:25 PM
Tim Leaning 25 Jul 09 - 03:28 PM
Backwoodsman 26 Jul 09 - 09:15 AM
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Subject: Recording a Guitar new Question
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 06:32 PM

ok here is the deal, I sat down with my old D-28 with two mikes
recorded the guitar on my firewire... beautiful

Then I sat down with this cheapo cresent thin body with the built in pickup with equalizer and recorded the same song after messing with the EQ on the pickup
Dang if I can tell the difference ..

yet if I were playing on my couch ... one is like a washing machine and the other is like Angels ... HOW? Why? don't get it

And why do we buy such expensive instruments if that is the case


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:14 PM

As long as the fretting is accurate, your comparison between two acoustic is not comparing apples to apples--because your pickups are picking up the sound from right inside the body of the crescent, where it has not attenuated, while the Martin is able to deliver the comparable richness of sound to a distance from the guitar because of its better construction.

Try comparing mike recordings of the two at the same distance and see what you hear.


A


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:14 PM

I mean I do understand messing with the EQ, but like singing one can add reverb etc but they still are not going to sound like Frank Sinatra ... however with a guitar, is it because the pickup is inside the thing and can get the ring you normally can't hear ... all nuts ... never understand recording ... How the heck a 100 buck guitar can sound that good and yet without being plugged in someplace it really stinks ...


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:15 PM

We buy GOOD gear if we are going to be WORKING acoustically ! If we are only doing 'studio' . the techy can make the plank sound like a guitar !


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:15 PM

Thanks Amos, I get it


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:37 PM

Just to clarify, you're saying you recorded your Martin with two mics; then recorded an acoustic via its built-in pickup? Via a jack lead?

Personally, I hate the sound of an acoustic guitar recorded via a pickup and jack lead. It's mics and nothing but for me, every time. I'd really like to hear those recordings, because I pride myself on always being able to tell the difference between a jack-lead-recorded electroacoustic and an acoustic recorded with mics. The former always sounds really plastic and lacking in warmth and body.

I'm not irredeemably an audiophile snob - I often prefer the sound of cheap guitars recorded on cheap microphones, and I actually like a bit of hiss in the background - but I can't help but suspect that if you're not hearing any real difference it's cos you're not using a decent condenser (or ribbon) mic.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:11 PM

good point, I will try it with the condenser mike. I just used a cheap one I had upstairs not what I normally record with. I will try it with the condenser mike as a better test


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:56 PM

put a new battery in my condenser mike and gave it a whirl. Yes that was the problem, the Martin I can hear every ring that I don't hear on the cheap guitar with the built in pickup. But I will say the cheap one does have a decent sound but not near as clean ...

I also found out that placement of the mike on the guitar makes a difference ... the mike behind the sound hole seems to work best for me as opposed to right in front


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 03:24 AM

The important thing when using a mic to record your guitar is to find the "sweet spot" - which will vary from instrument to instrument and be dependent on what mic you're using. I usually have the mic ready to record, i.e. I can hear what the input will sound like using headphones plugged into the recorder, and then shift the mic around with the phones on. When you get the sound you want - that's your "sweet spot"!

Generally speaking, mic'ing too close to the soundhole will give you a very boomy sound - too far away will thin the sound down.

It's all personal taste.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: GUEST,QTWF
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 01:14 PM

Sorry Leadingers, but that's not a good attitude to take into a studio. At least not if you want a decent recording.

A lot of musicians I know and have worked with have a really good instrument for playing live and a really good instrument for recording. Sometimes, but by no means always, it's the same instrument.

All a "techy" can do is record it. If it's no good............

Cheers,

QTWF


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 01:39 PM

Dan, the good condenser mic is the answer always. In the studio, a good engineer I know
uses a directional lipstick mic pointed at the fretboard and a large capsule condenser
pointed at the body. The mix he creates doesn't produce "crosstalk" or phasing probably
because of the directional lipstick mic which doesn't bleed. He is a guitarist, himself,
and gets a great sound out of my Martin 0021.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 08:49 PM

Thank you Frank,
at my office I have 2 phantom powered mikes on the firewire. At home I have a cheapo (that I won't use again) and the condenser mike

can someone tell me what a phantom powered mike is anyway. All I know is I push the button on my firewire that says 48 volt phantom power and I don't need to put a battery in them like the condenser mike at home.
Is there a quality difference? I know I got a deal on them from ebay and they were expensive but I never really understood the difference



Dan


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 08:59 PM

I just recorded this with the Phantom Mikes on my D-28
sound guys please tell me what I need to tweek up or tune down please.
trying to get it right

Wayfaring Stranger


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:50 AM

That sounds a bit odd   this end mate.
did you use some software effects?


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM

Tim
no I didn't I have some setting some place off. gotta experiment a bit more with mike placement or the reverb


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:47 AM

Hi olddude - I suspect there might have been just a little too much reverb there - the singing and playing was excellent.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:26 AM

I agree with that is not performance I was querying sometimes noise reduction can give similar effect.
Have you thought of recording it dry then adding effects later if you need them?
I asked similar question on here recently and got loads of advice.
I found that I got the most natural sound by having a mic pointing around the 7th fret and about a foot from the frets.
Of course I got carried away and plugged her in as well.
I was told to move the mic around while listening thru headphones and playing.
It does work and is worth trying.
Best of luck and keep at it.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:22 AM

Tim and Will
Thank you, I will give it a try after work. I think you may have hit on it, I had the reverb up to hall size, gonna try to knock it down to room see what that does. Thanks for the mike placement suggestions ... I have them really close together with the reverb set for vocals and not set for guitar but they bleed over I think .. boy the recording stuff really is a science all to itself for sure. I will keep at it my friends


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:27 AM

When I first started recording guitar and vocals. I used to whack the reverb up quite a bit - mainly to cover up what I felt were weaknesses in vocal pitching. I now use very little reverb on anything - I still have imperfections in pitching vocal sometimes, but I don't worry about it quite so much!


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM

Will
from what I heard my friend there is no weakness in your voice !!
you are amazing.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:58 AM

I always record dry, then add reverb to the guitar tracks and the vocal track separately - guitar usually needs very little (if any at all) and vocals a touch more. Remember that, in Reverb-World, less is often more - quality not quantity is the rule.

Olddude - sounds to me like you have some back-echo coming off hard surfaces (windows, walls, doors??). Also, try recording the guitar first, then add the vocal track, which will prevent bleed occurring between the tracks, then add your effects, do the mix and make a master. Works for me, and you're able to give your full attention to both elements - the guitar piece, and the vocal - should give a good result.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:26 PM

backwoodsman,
thank you, never tried that. yup the bounce .. I am right next to a window, didnt think of that either ... wow great info much appreciated


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: matt milton
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:57 PM

Hi - do you know the makes and model numbers of your various mics? I'd be interested to hear. What brand is your condenser mic? What brand are the two you use at work? I've used a fair few mics in my time and I might be able to suggest a few things...


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 12:09 PM

Just a thought if yo recording two sources at once and using a mixing desk as a sound card;try arming two mono tracks and setting the pan on each to full left and right.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 12:20 PM

Tim I have two sources the mikes, and it set at stereo, so you are saying make them both mono then try. I will give it a shot. Gotta fix my system. Last night at 2am I was recording .. have 4 new song that I wrote for a new Cd ... notebook started smoking ... battery melted down. lost my songs, hope I can remember them .. got to setup a new platform now and buy a firewire card for an old desktop to hook up my recorder ... maybe the notebook which has been on the fritz was causing some of the recording problems


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 01:16 PM

I'd guess the hard drive would still be okay, so someone with a bit of savvy could remove it and retrieve your stuff if you don't feel up to the job. It's an easy matter to buy an external caddy for a 2.5" drive - but be sure whether it's PATA or SATA first, or find a caddy that will handle both.

I've got a little 'magic box' that plugs into the PC via USB, and has connectors and power for all three types - 3.5" PATA, 2.5" PATA and SATA (which is identical on both 3.5" and 2,5" drives). The only make/model on it is MIDTE and I've had it quite a while...

I've found a seller here, so you may be able to track one down...


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 01:25 PM

Thank you, yea I will recover the HD later today, what a pain Bernard it is ... my youngest kid ran off with my good notebook so I was using this old junk one. You should have seen the smoke out of it ... wow glad I didnt leave it on when I wasn't around. Never had that happen


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 03:28 PM

Its a compromise really but it gives you two separate tracks but still allows you to play and sing at same time which I think is what you wanted?
I am very new to this myself but if you have the time to mess around it is very satisfying.


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Subject: RE: Recording a Guitar Question
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 09:15 AM

Tim, Olddude, you will still have the problem of bleed, (i.e. guitar audible on 'vocal' track and vice-versa) which makes satisfactory EQ-ing, FX addition, and mastering more difficult, and a pretty unnatural stereo balance?

Two-part recording (guitar first then vocal added on a separate track afterwards) is much better from those viewpoints. It's somewhat strange initially, (and you have to force yourself not to hum along as you play the guitar part!) but with a little practice it does become much easier. You then have an independent instrument track (or two if you use two mics for the guitar) and an independent vocal track which you can EQ, stereo balance, add FX, and mix completely independently.


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