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guitar riots and accordion assaults?

Tootler 22 Jul 09 - 06:07 PM
Peace 22 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM
Royston 22 Jul 09 - 06:28 PM
Peace 22 Jul 09 - 06:29 PM
manitas_at_work 23 Jul 09 - 03:12 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,chris 23 Jul 09 - 05:01 AM
banjoman 23 Jul 09 - 07:07 AM
Leadfingers 23 Jul 09 - 07:13 AM
GUEST,pasher 23 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM
Richard Bridge 23 Jul 09 - 07:24 AM
NormanD 23 Jul 09 - 07:28 AM
Richard Bridge 23 Jul 09 - 07:35 AM
Leadfingers 23 Jul 09 - 07:48 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM
Royston 23 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 23 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM
Howard Jones 23 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,Norman 23 Jul 09 - 04:05 PM
Tim Leaning 25 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM
gnu 25 Jul 09 - 09:52 PM
Peace 25 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM
VirginiaTam 26 Jul 09 - 10:35 AM
NormanD 27 Jul 09 - 09:50 AM
Tootler 01 Aug 09 - 05:17 PM
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Subject: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Tootler
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:07 PM

This article encapsulates the nonsense of the UK 2003 Licensing act.

From: Hamish Birchall
To: hamishbirchall
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:16 AM
Subject: 'Where are the guitar riots and accordion assaults?'


Terence Blacker of the Independent has written the best article yet on recent entertainment licensing developments:

'Where are the guitar riots and accordian assaults? Terence Blacker - The Independent - Tuesday 21 July 2009
'This Government has developed a bizarre hatred for a certain kind of live music. Chilling with the kids at the Latitude Festival this weekend, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, Ben Bradshaw, looked extraordinarily relaxed for someone whose ministry had just dealt a hammer blow to musical expression in the UK. Participating in a packed debate about media, Bradshaw had been amiable, almost liberal, in his views about Page Three girls and the celebrity culture.

'It is music for which his Government has developed a bizarre, sustained hatred - or, to be more accurate, a certain kind of music. There is no problem with the big, moneyed, well-sponsored acts of the type performing on the main stages of Latitude and other festivals. It is the kind of acts found on the fringes of these events - small, scruffy, dangerously individual and spontaneous - which seems to frighten ministers, and has caused them to dump yet another mess of pointless legislation on to the statute books...'

See the rest of the article at the Independent on line.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/terence-blacker/terence-blacker-where-are-the-guitar-riots-and-accordian-assaults-1754426.html


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM

There is an expression used frequently in both Canada and the United States: Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for.

Seems it might be true in the UK also.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Royston
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:28 PM

LOL, more daft legislation. Totally unnecessary. A good Stanley knife is all you need to deal with most accordians.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:29 PM

Even a bad Stanley knife. (Bagpipes and banjos are next.)


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:12 AM

Anyone that tries that with my accordion will be beaten about the head with the remains.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM

Sadly, some of the initiators of this this ridiculous legislation had the same kind of thoughts as the last couple of comments. Treat it as a joke and no one will be bothered to oppose it.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:01 AM

the sooner we get shut of this government the better. I used to be a labour voter - NOT NOW!!!!!!!!!! And I apologise for the fact that my votes may helped to have elected it
chris (one of the 'few' who lost money through the 10% tax debacle)


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: banjoman
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:07 AM

I have been a Labour Voter for almost 50 years but doubt if I could support them again. Its not just the music its their whole restrictive philosophy.
However, to coin a phrase that my mother often used when talking about politics " My hand would drop off if I ever wrote a cross next to a conservative candidate"
So I probably wont bother next time and spend the day of the election in my local (licence applied for) playing my banjo
Pete


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:13 AM

But there is NO licence requirement for a Large Screen Television and two hundred 'Sports' fans getting drunk and creating mayhem when their team either wins or loses !


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST,pasher
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM

I stopped voting after the tory sleaze scandle a few years ago, and the recent expenses scandle, along with the many restrictive and unnecessary laws brought in vindicates my actions, imo.

People argue that I must vote as its a priviledge to to so, but I maintain that being allowed to put an X on a bit of paper every few years isn't enough. I want to be able to write on a side of paper my thoughts, opinions and suggestions, and then be assured that it will be read and noted - something that has never happened on the occasions I have written to MPs.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:24 AM

Nor is a licence needed for a thousand watt jukebox.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: NormanD
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:28 AM

There has been a similar discussion on another music forum I take part in. I wrote there, and repeat here, as a modest proposal:

Is there any way forward? Maybe there needs to be the equivalent of mass trespasses, where the "law" is constantly and regularly defied, shown up for its idiocy, and made unworkable and unenforceable. Remember the other "law" that Labour passed preventing any kind of political protest within a mile radius of Parliament unless licensed (and agreed by the police) in advance? Through the publicised activities of Mark Thomas and others, the bureaucratic process broke down under the swamp of applications, and the restrictions were lessened, then ignored, then dropped.

There is going to have to be mass action of some kind. Maybe we should start turning up to public places with our weapons hidden and small enough to avoid detection: kazoos, mouth organs, ocarinas, wooden recorders, jews harps, drum sticks, shakers, rattles.... Let's turn our instruments into arms, and make the walls of the city shake!


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:35 AM

Keep an eye on the following.

http://www.livemusicforum.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:48 AM

I like the idea of a 'Mass Trespass' , but would advise it NOT advisable in a Pub ! The Landlord would be the first loser , with a possible £2000 fine !


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM

Then let the authorities summons the landlords! If it happens in every pub then the whole system might soon become unworkable, and start breaking down.

Reasoned arguments have either been ignored, or met with mockery. Petitions are only a limited campaign, and all too often ignored. Action has to start somewhere. It won't take much to start things off - things can roll quicker than we expect them too sometimes.

(Norman)


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Royston
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

C'mon Guest. I'm only kidding. Feed me a line about accordian assualts and I will just have to take the bait. Good one, Manitas!

On a more serious note, this crap legislation is just endless. I have a constant state of deja-vu about it all, I was active in the "two in a bar" original backlash with all manner of letter-writing and lobbying.

It seems to me, though, that the rules have not brought the world to an end, folk clubs are still doing very nicely. Most people ignore the rules and, it seems, that so long as nobody has cause to complain about nuisance then the LA's feel no cause for intervention. Or have I missed something?...very likely.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM

From the west side of the pond: I trust politicians about as far as I can throw one - and I'd love to. The problem we have is that, once elected, they feel compelled to pass legislation simply so they can trumpet that they have "accomplished" something in office. The merit, if any, of the law passed is often invisible - the effect often execrable.

I'm sure songs have been composed "celebrating" this peculiar situation - Woodie Guthrie, perhaps? If not, who would volunteer?


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM

Even the government's own MPs don't support them - currently 17 of the 29 MPs who have signed the Early Day Motion are from the Labour Party.

I've written to my own MP asking him to support the EDM.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: GUEST,Norman
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:05 PM

The Guest above is me, by the way.

Even if it's not being imposed, this legislation is one more gun for the government's repressive armoury. It may not be enforced now, but it could in the future when the situation requires. Just imagine a couple of possible examples - a fund-raising benefit for a local protest campaign? A picket line outside a workplace (the public place being the pavement) involving instruments and singing?

When Gordon Brown as Chancellor raised tax by getting rid of the 10p minimum, it started off as something that was initially hardly noticed. It took a year or so before the shit hit the fan over that. Similar, in some ways, to this. It's just a piece of casual legislation that supposedly affects few people, and that no one really cares about anyway. Or so they they think......


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

How many of our Westminster politicians are:- Honest,trustworthy,not middle class?
I blame Thatcher and the acolytes that have perpetuated her crimes against the people for the last 30 years.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:52 PM

To hear your troubles as above in the old country mollifies me in the colonies.

If YOU are subject to such garbage, certainly we in the colonies feel powerless... almost hopelessness... as it will happen here next and soon.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM

"Thank god we don't get all the government we pay for."

I don't know who said that, but the guy/gal is a genius.


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 10:35 AM

I like the idea of shaking the walls down. I'd say parliament is due for a musical display. If not London is not the place then local authorities will do, when their members sit.

Up to the walls of Jericho
He marched with 'banjo' in hand
Go blow them ram horns, Joshua cried
'Cause the battle is in my hands'

Halleluia!

Joshua fitt the battle of Jericho
My Lawd, Jericho
Wella, Jericho
Joshua fit the battle of Jericho
And the walls come tumbling down


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: NormanD
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 09:50 AM

"When the mode of the music changes
The walls of the city shake....."

Maybe we should change Mode to Mood and start shaking


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Subject: RE: guitar riots and accordion assaults?
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:17 PM

More bureaucratic nonsense. The petition has already been mentioned in another thread, but I left the reference in anyway - hopefully more of you will be persuaded to sign. (UK only I'm afraid)

----- Original Message -----
From: Hamish Birchall
To: hamishbirchall
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:59 PM
Subject: Live music petition - 1000 signatures in 5 days


A petition calling on the Prime Minister to stop using the Licensing Act to criminalise live music and to implement amendments that would exempt small gigs has gained over 1000 signatures since it was launched last Monday, 27 July: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/livemusicevents/

Please consider signing. If you support the petition, please circulate the link above as widely as possible.

Many local authorities use the Act to bully small venues, including schools:
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/School-show-scrapped-after-head.5080776.jp

Providing musical instruments is of itself a potential offence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194875/Strolling-Beethoven-Playing-PIANO-street--start-new-craze.html

Even musical instruments provided by schools are caught in this madness, as confirmed in this 'Yes Minister' government response of 15 July 2009 to questions raised by Lord Clement-Jones:

Lord Clement-Jones: To ask Her Majesty's Government what information or guidance has been provided to schools and local authorities concerning the requirement to license the provision of musical instruments as "entertainment facilities" under the Licensing Act 2003 where such instruments are used in public performances of live music or private performances that seek to raise money for good causes. [HL4839]
The Minister for Communications, Technology and Broadcasting (Lord Carter of Barnes): The department has provided general advice to applicants on its website and detailed guidance to licensing authorities on the 2003 Act as it affects the provision of regulated entertainment. However, the Act has devolved responsibility for the administration of the licensing regime to individual authorities and it is for them to consider each application on its own merits. The Act does not draw a distinction between events which are put on for charity purposes and those which are not.

Although the 2003 Act requires schools and colleges to obtain a licence for regulated entertainment to which the public are invited, or for a private entertainment where a fee is charged with a view to profit, they are exempt from paying the licence fee if the event is provided by, located at and for the purpose of the school or college.

Lord Clement-Jones: To ask Her Majesty's Government what proportion of schools in England and Wales are licensed under the Licensing Act 2003 for performances of live music and the provision of musical instruments as "entertainment facilities". [HL4840]

Lord Carter of Barnes: We do not hold this information. The statistical data collected by the department identify how many premises have permission, in the form of a premises licence or club premises certificate, to put on regulated entertainment, including live music. However, it is not known how many schools have obtained an appropriate permission to cover live performances of music and the provision of entertainment facilities, or indeed any other form of regulated entertainment such as a dance event or a play. In some cases, a school may decide to put on an event by giving a temporary event notice.

Although the Licensing Act 2003 requires schools and colleges to obtain a licence for regulated entertainment to which the public are invited, or for a private entertainment where a fee is charged with a view to profit, they are exempt from paying the licence fee if the event is provided by, located at and for the purpose of the school or college.

See: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldhansrd/text/90715w0002.htm#09071576000578

ENDS


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