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BS: Make tobacco illegal?

MGM·Lion 25 Nov 10 - 12:12 PM
Bill D 25 Nov 10 - 10:50 AM
SPB-Cooperator 25 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Patsy 25 Nov 10 - 06:03 AM
lefthanded guitar 24 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,999 24 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 24 Nov 10 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,Russ 24 Nov 10 - 08:34 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Nov 10 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,Patsy 24 Nov 10 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 24 Nov 10 - 01:02 AM
Bobert 23 Nov 10 - 10:46 PM
Jeri 23 Nov 10 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 23 Nov 10 - 10:06 PM
Bobert 23 Nov 10 - 09:46 PM
Donuel 23 Nov 10 - 09:40 PM
gnu 23 Nov 10 - 09:39 PM
gnu 05 Oct 09 - 04:02 PM
Bill D 29 Sep 09 - 10:36 PM
Donuel 29 Sep 09 - 04:24 PM
gnu 29 Sep 09 - 03:41 PM
Bill D 29 Sep 09 - 03:25 PM
3refs 29 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM
gnu 29 Sep 09 - 01:36 PM
GUEST 31 Jul 09 - 08:31 AM
Beer 30 Jul 09 - 11:27 PM
Riginslinger 30 Jul 09 - 07:10 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jul 09 - 06:29 PM
gnu 30 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM
Riginslinger 30 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM
Paco Rabanne 30 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jul 09 - 05:52 PM
gnu 30 Jul 09 - 03:25 PM
gnu 30 Jul 09 - 03:20 PM
Little Hawk 29 Jul 09 - 03:13 AM
Peace 29 Jul 09 - 12:18 AM
Rapparee 28 Jul 09 - 11:52 PM
Ebbie 28 Jul 09 - 11:47 PM
Bill D 28 Jul 09 - 11:11 PM
Rapparee 28 Jul 09 - 10:33 PM
Amos 28 Jul 09 - 10:24 PM
Peace 28 Jul 09 - 10:14 PM
Ebbie 28 Jul 09 - 09:22 PM
Rapparee 28 Jul 09 - 09:05 PM
Dorothy Parshall 28 Jul 09 - 09:04 PM
Rapparee 28 Jul 09 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Russ Meyer 28 Jul 09 - 07:00 PM
Bill D 28 Jul 09 - 06:39 PM
maire-aine 28 Jul 09 - 05:18 PM
Peace 28 Jul 09 - 05:15 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:12 PM

Despite some pessimistic notes struck here, e.g. by BillD above, that we are permanently stuck with the horrible habit, I do think I perceive some hopeful signs that it might not last too many more generations. In my youth, it was, not unacceptable exactly, but slightly eccentric, to be a non-smoker. Now, though, it has gone somewhat to the other extreme, and those who do smoke often come over as rather apologetic about it. The success of the UK government's "No smoking in places of public resort" legislation, as I think I have remarked already in another post, is amazing. Visitors, as I have said, seem to think it would be unmannerly to smoke in my home anywhere except out in the garden, though I assure them that my hospitality would not be outraged by a few hours of lingering tobacco smell.

All these seem to be straws in the wind to indicate the ultimate demise of smoking. Not immediately; but I think in a few generations it may well have gone the way of chewing tobacco quids.

Hope so, anyhow.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:50 AM

Prohibition against alcohol, as I said way back up there, was hard because it can be made anywhere...even at home...from local stuff. Marijuna can be grown in your basement. But growing tobacco is not nearly as easy, and importing thru smuggling enough to feed all the addictions would be durn near impossible.

   I asked once before in a thread like this.... if tobacco were just discovered and invented today, what chance would it have to to be 'legalized' at ANY price?

I assume all the new taxes and restrictions are a covert attempt to gradually reduce usage to zero, but I don't hold much hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM

I'd just raise the corporation tax level of the tobacco companies to 99%.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:03 AM

They could denounce Sir Walter Raleigh for bringing the stuff over here in the first place.

What about snuff? There are lots of mature ladies who like the occasional pinch of snuff and ironically have reached their century. Who should deny them that pleasure if it makes them happy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM

Too late to make tobacco illegal. I'd like to see trans fats and high fructose corn syrup taken out of our foods tho.I read lables on everything now b/c you would NOT believe where these nasty things are lurking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM

`Aren't enough things illegal, yet?? Why not make pine cones illegal??..they're less healthy to smoke than tobacco.`

Well, I for one think it`s a ridiculous notion. How would one make a really good pesto sauce were it not for pine nuts?


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 11:57 AM

How about banning banners?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:34 AM

Everything is a trade off.

The attempts to ban stuff has a track record that should be taken seriously.

For example, the 18th amendment had significant negative and hopefully unintended consequences.

We just create a different set of problems.

The practical effects of criminalizing smokers would probably be comparable.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:26 AM

I can't say my observation agrees with yours re the rollups, Patsy. I know quite a few people who still smoke, but can think of none of them who rolls their own, rather than buying them in packets at the unbelievable price they are now. I always say that campaigns to stop smoking would do better not to show pix of diseased lungs, but of empty wallets!

I note that one of the givers-up above who thought at first that she would go back to it when she gets old or ill has changed her mind. I suspect that even those who still think they will return to the habit in due course, after years without it, will change their minds also if/when it comes to it. I had my last smoke on 3 April 1975. Nothing in the world would induce me to return to it now.

As to the topic of the thread ~~ buggered if I know what would be for the best. Prohibition, as we know from bitter experience, brings more problems than it solves. Education in such contexts [cf the ongoing hiv/AIDS thread] experience shows to be unhappily most limited in its effects. The present laws here about no smoking in public buildings &c have had a beneficial effect, of course; & the speed with which people have accepted and adjusted to them is remarkable: I find that visitors who smoke these days regard it as a courtesy to go out into the garden to do so, though I assure them that my sense of hospitality would not require any such recourse.

But the problems both of alcohol and nicotine addiction certainly remain: a sort of Original Sin to mock us all...

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:06 AM

No. I know in an ideal world anything that can lessen the risk of cancer theoretically is right but there is so much more mamby-pamby ideas going on in the UK right now people will eventually get very fed up with it and say what the heck. Tobacco here anyway is mostly used in roll ups which on average is normally smaller with less chemicals than the ready made B&H's and I have noticed that people tend to habitually smoke them less than the ready made brands and the trouble is with mental illnessess in reabilitation the last thing that would be denied patients is tobacco. The pouches of tobacco have warnings on them which I think is enough.

I think so called energy caffeine drinks and pro-plus should be looked into a bit more if anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 01:02 AM

Oh what the hell...they even want to make home gardens illegal. Monsanto wants to corner the market on all seeds, and irradiate the rest. Youy taxed corruption at work...AGAIN!

Gfs


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 10:46 PM

Education v. Prohibition, that is the issue...


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 10:35 PM

Tobacco isn't the only thing that causes lung cancer. "Unknown" is right up there. Tobacco is, however, the only thing I know of that can kill when used as intended.

As bad as it is, making it illegal isn't the solution. Didn't work for alcohol or pot. Making a thing illegal just creates a black market.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 10:06 PM

Aren't enough things illegal, yet?? Why not make pine cones illegal??..they're less healthy to smoke than tobacco.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:46 PM

I donno, gn-ze...

As bad as it sounds, maybe we just need to provide it cheap to anyone who wants it after they have completed an 8 hour course showing what tobacco is goin' to do to them... Pictures, stats and all... Then have them sign a waiver where they will forgo any treatment that is paid for from public funds, including burial expenses...

Kinda Darwinism at its best...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:40 PM

Make it a class one substance. End of story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:39 PM

So, an old buddy called me a few nights ago. We shot the shit for a while and I told him I saw him in the hospital but I didn't have time to come back to where he was after I checked in at the clinic where I was. When I was done with the doc, I looked for him but to no avail.

That's when he told me. He is 67. Quit smoking 15 years ago. He was there for cheemo... lung cancer.

Seriously... it's time to ban this shit. As for all the arguements against a ban, if the RCMP can find time in their day to attempt to erradicate weed they may as well get at tobacco... it truely is a cancer on society that we do not need.

BTW... my buddy is one of the nicest guys you would ever have the privelege to meet. He has an infectious laugh and he's always about fun. Tall, handsome... a lady's man and a man's man... a true gentleman... a good buddy. Even now, he has a positive attitude and jokes about this but I wish tobacco had been banned years ago because this guy should not die earlier than need be.

Sappy... yeah. True... yeah. And there are thousands and thousands of sappy and true stories caused by this blight on humankind.

The debate is futile, useless and inane. If nothing is done, people will continue to die. Like my buddy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:02 PM

PQ is on board!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:36 PM

I don't 'think' you can grow decent tobacco just anywhere. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Pot can be grown inside under lights...booze can be made in the bathtub, but tobacco, I think, needs special climate...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 04:24 PM

Make tobacco illegal

Do it Immediately.

If tobbacco went underground a cottage industry would spring up that would support many poor people who would no longer have to depend upon multi national corporations for their existence.

Add it to all the other hundreds of banned substances, just don't criminalize it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 03:41 PM

If Ontario wins in a Queen's court... the rest of us can sue on precedent.

Tie up the courts? Fuckin right! Put the piss to the devils that burn our children. Make them pay until they go away.

Can't be done? I say it must be done, at any cost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 03:25 PM

I'm with you, Mr. Gnu, sir...but the number of lawsuits necessary to do any good would tie up all the courts for years.

Like a lot of things which are bad for us, tobacco is not easy to back away from. It **IS** addictive, and in ways alcohol is not....and as I said before, alcohol in not necessarily harmful.

If tobacco is taxed TOO much, it will cause as much illegal marketing as prohibition of booze did.

I do know that 'fewer' folks are using it than did 50 years ago, and for non-smokers like me, I can now go to a restaurant or bar and be able to breathe. That's progress, I guess....but geeze, I hate imagining all the kids who WILL take it up, even if it's a smaller % than before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: 3refs
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM

I'm pretty sure that it's me who wrote the post above gnu. I forgot to sign in, but I recognize the statements.

Futhermore.

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this".

Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 01:36 PM

Ontario to sue.

I hope every province and every US state and every country in the world does the same. It's far beyond time to stamp out this crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:31 AM

Years ago, I suggested a way to combine what are now the illegalities of smoking pot, with the ban of publicly smoking tobacco. To get a little, you have to give a little! I think "vices" should cost you!

First thing is take Marijuana off the "Narcotics list". It is not a narcotic and never has been(neither is "Coke", but we'll leave that one for now). Then, put the same restrictions on tobacco(and pot) that we do with alcohol. You have to be a certain age. Only to be consumed in the privacy of a home or a licenced establishment. In other words, nowhere in the public domain. Just like the places that sell alcohol you sell licenses and make the people who own these places hang out a shingle that says "Licensed Establishment". No more smoking outside and littering the streets with butts. No smoking in cars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Beer
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:27 PM

I quit 7 years ago. When i am told I have cancer I will start again.
Beer


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:10 PM

Yes, it's always hard to deal with children on a whole range of legal issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 06:29 PM

Well, what I mean is, gnu...

It's unhealthy to eat excessively, drink excessively, smoke excessively, sleep excessively, exercise excessively, watch TV excessively, and do anything else excessively, but you cannot force people to make only the most healthy choices in life by passing laws against all these various things. After all, I know totally responsible and kindly adults, good citizens all, who do smoke marijuana or who smoke tobacco or who drink...but not excessively, and it doesn't cause them to engage in any harmful activities toward other people or toward society in general. They should not be penalized by draconian laws which make marijuana or alcohol or tobacco or anything else like that illegal...because they are NOT doing harm to anyone else as a result of their habit...and probably not much harm to themselves either. So it's their business if they want to grow and smoke their own marijuana. And it's no one else's business.

You have to let adults decide for themselves what to do to themselves in the privacy of their own lives.

As for children, some laws are definitely needed to protect children, and I think we all probably agree when it comes to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM

LH... "People (adults, I mean) have to decide for themselves whether or not to injest a harmful substance..."

But, that ain't the way it is. And, it sure as hell ain't the way it is for children.

Rig... hehehehehe. They should FO?


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM

We made aliens illegal and they're still here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM

I smoke. I enjoy smoking. Woodstock was a long time ago you hippies!

               Peace and love blah blah


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:52 PM

My God, that is pathetic. Oh well, I always detested the Flintstones anyway. They were an utterly crass microcosm of everything that completely sucks about the North American suburban consumer lifestyle...a la the suburbs of L.A. in the 50s and the early 60s. The psychology behind that show makes my flesh crawl.

There's no use making tobacco or alcohol or marijuana or anything else like that illegal. It just plays into the hands of criminal elements when you do, and it legally imperils many people who aren't criminals.

People (adults, I mean) have to decide for themselves whether or not to injest a harmful substance, and if they do...and if they do it without intruding on others and without breaking the other normal civil laws of society (such as theft, violence, property damage, trespassing, etc)...then that's entirely their own business. You can't force people against their own will to adopt a healthy lifestyle.

Imagine if they made it illegal, for instance, to overeat! ;-D People would be gathering in secret to pig out on huge buffets, and the cops would be bursting in and arresting everyone. Overweight people would be tailed by undercover cops in order to catch them in the act when they met their underworld caterer for their food "fix".

Man, it is all so silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 03:25 PM

The pusher is not a natural man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 03:20 PM

So... she done fell off the board. I guess that means all the comments and sage pontifications are concluded.

My turn.

WHAT? Ya can't get there from here? Why not?

Prohibition did not work.... it would make criminals out of good citizens... blah blah blah... bullshit.

Tobacco causes cancer and it has no redeeming value. If you get cancer from tobacco, you can't have any weed to help you with your cancer treatment because the pOlice are out there waging a war on weed.

Wait... the pOlice are waging a war on weed? But, prohibition doesn't work... ahhh... WTF am I missing in all this?

Hmmm... maybe, if the pOlice were waging "the war" on tobacco and allowing cancer victims to get some relief with some reef, it might make a TINY BIT MORE SENSE???

So... what about jail time for growing and selling tobacco?

BTW, I never meant that you couldn't grow yer own. I meant, don't grow it and sell it to children with Fred Flinstone as the pusher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:13 AM

Everything around a smoker stinks. Their clothes, their shoes, their fingers, their hair, their car, their possessions, and the air in their near vicinity. The unpleasant smell is lessened, however, if they remove their clothing, no doubt about that...and there are worse smells than old tobacco smoke.

One or two, anyway... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:18 AM

Y'all smoke some real weird stuff in the USA, Rapaire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:52 PM

I prefer smoked salmon...or trout, or chicken, or turkey, or several kinds of cheese....


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:47 PM

It's not so much that smokers stink, Amos, as it is what hangs on their clothing. A nude smoker smells nice. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:11 PM

Iowa & Pennsylvania also used to- I stood in line at a depressing hole in Iowa once....Kansas did NOT when I lived there 30 years ago.

...and Montgomery County Maryland is getting a wee bit better in what they carry, but nowhere near as good as DC or Prince Georges County...or across the river in Virginia,


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 10:33 PM

Idaho, Utah, Ohio, Montgomery County Maryland, Kansas (I think)...et al. all have state-owned liquor stores. Fortunately, there are states nearby with more civilized behavior -- although I have a very nice bar stocked from Elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 10:24 PM

So do those who pee, and other things, and those who sweat from toil or exertion.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 10:14 PM

So do drinkers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 09:22 PM

Rapaire, ? I don't get it. So far as I know, all Alaskan liquor stores are privately owned. Do you have state-owned stores?

"Well, I'm not smoking now, but that doesn't mean I never plan to have one ever again. In fact, when I reach 72, I plan to start again." Maire-anne

That's funny, Mary Anne. When I quit smoking more than 30 years ago, I said the same thing. I also said that if I were diagnosed as having a terminal condition I would go back to smoking for the duration.

I changed my mind. Smokers tend to stink. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 09:05 PM

So you're advocating government owned and run liquor stores? I live in one of those states now. When they need cash they raise the price of booze.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 09:04 PM

Ebbie's idea of selling tobacco products only in liquor stores is fantastic! Would seriously cut down on kids getting it. Yes, I do know that adults buy booze for kids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:49 PM

The indigenous peoples in the the Americas used tobacco as a "sacred" thing -- they didn't walk around with a pipe in their mouths, but passed the smoke communally (remind you of anything?). The Europeans gave these people alcohol and they gave the Europeans tobacco. Some in both camps got along fine without indulging or overindulging, but most who tried it didn't "Just Say No" and they provided things that have killed off many of each.

I wonder what other planets hold?


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: GUEST,Russ Meyer
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 07:00 PM

Make booze illegal first. Did you ever hear of someone coming home and wrecking the house or using a woman as a punchbag after smoking a packet of 20 ?

On a weekend night did you ever see someone jumping on the bonnets of parked cars, ripping off wing mirrors or throwing up over an ATM after a packet of 10 ?

Police man hours are doubled every Friday and Saturday night because of street thugs wrecking and breaking up public property, that isn't after a cigar ?

Go to the A & E dept, of your local hospital and talk to the staff about the bulk of their workload at weekends, it isn't caused my your grandmother using snuff.

May I add, I am neither a smoker or a drinker. Keep it fair and equal folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 06:39 PM

Just as a matter of interest,Peace...I do NOT think churches and church property should be exempt from taxes. But I know what chance that has of being enacted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: maire-aine
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:18 PM

Well, I'm not smoking now, but that doesn't mean I never plan to have one ever again. In fact, when I reach 72, I plan to start again.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: BS: Make tobacco illegal?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:15 PM

I'm fartin' around, Wesley. However, there are lots of things to tax--like corporations, multi-nationals, etc. Everytime a thread like this comes up, people suggest taxation as a method of waking up the Philistines. It doesn't work. I no longer buy 'legal' cigarettes because the tax is just too damned much. Tell me why it is that 200/gm of 'Indian' tobacco can sell for $6 and the 'legal' stuff is about 15 times more expensive? The government can kiss my royal Canadian in that regard. Will we next tax beef out of the market? It causes arteries to clog, as does butter, the yellow of eggs, etc. No mention of that yet. Consider it hereby mentioned. And pork, chicken skin, ANY food found to be deleterious to the health of people. Because they too end up in the health system. How about taxing drivers who have accidents. Not just money to the insurance company, but to the hospital systems. Yeah. Let's do that.


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