Lyr Req: My Little Armalite

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:55 PM

Legal Eagle

I assume by your name that you are a barrister. The agreement for the peace process had no precondition for disarming for setting up the government. It was implicit in the talks that that would come after the vote, and if ratified, after the government was set up. Trimble knew this, but is having a hard time with his people. Blair knows it and it is why he is so dismayed with Trimble and his people. I reiterate, it is Sinn Fein that has lived up to every aspect of its agreement. Given the past, as recently as the Rosemary Nelson incident (re: which just yesterday more information about RUC complicity came out) and going back as far as you would like to go, why on earth would the IRA agree to disarm until the government has formed and the cross border commissions are in place. And given the events of the last 6 months, clearly they are correct. They have honored their committments and will disarm if and when it is proper to do so.

And I would ask again. You, and others continue to speak of the IRA as terrorists, with no mention of the Loyalist Paramilitaries. The record shows clearly that they have been responsible for much more "terrorism", geometrically more, than the IRA. Yet you refuse to acknowledge this fact.

Jeri,

You could neither offend me, nor get in trouble with me. I enjoy your posts and find you to be thoughtful in your approach to things. I respect and value your opinion. In re-reading my post I can see why you arrived at the position you did. I will see if I can say it better.

I am not asking those of a contrary opinion to stop posting their opinion. I value other opinions as they make me subject my arguments to the test of the opinion. What I am asking of others is that they quit chastising those with a different opinion. Agree to disagree, debate the merits.......whatever. But don't tell me that because of where I live, or the controversial nature of my beliefs that I shouldn't be posting them. That has happened twice in two days from people that I otherwise respect.

Mick

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:49 PM

I came to flame.

I read the arguments.

I still think the IRA are unpleasant terrorists, but although I think the song is insensitive right now when the refusal to hand over weapons is IMHO the stumbling block to possible peace (someone send the song to Trimble, it will give him a good excuse), I also think I am tending to say that the song itself should be recorded accurately and dug out again - later.

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Fadac
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:20 PM

>Armalite /or M16A1, AR10, AR15, M14, AR16.

>The AR15 is the one most commonly called the Armalite not the M16A1.

Still a piece of crap. Shoots a crap round, no range. I love it when you see TV and some dude has a M16 with a scope and he is going to be a sniper. Sure, for up to and including about 200 yards. A 30-06 or 7.62 Nato round is good to 1000 yards in the right hands. For me, 1000 yards is still too close..."Hello? Fire mission follows..."

-Fadac

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Ferret
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:23 PM

Fadac & Mike

I can not agree more.

As Mike already knows my sister was the civilian lead singer with the number one dance band Royal Marines Deal (not army a small deferent's but it maters to some) at the Royal Marines School of Music Deal.

She had been in that room where the bomb was out side against the wall not more than 15 minutes before it went off. Waiting to get her pay for a gig and if she had not gone to get a coffee rather than wait would not be hear today she believes then as now in one Ireland, and in paying her way in life and Job in the Deal area wen you have a handicapped son (age 5) are bit thin on the ground.

So you work were you can.

This was only a request for lyrics this would be better dealt with in the Derry thread

Armalite /or M16A1, AR10, AR15, M14, AR16.

Made and designed by the Armalite Corporation. Of Costa Mesa, California USA, this may be why it's call the Armalite.

The AR15 is the one most commonly called the Armalite not the M16A1.

All the best

Ferret

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Fadac
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:50 AM

Wow, what a mixed up pot. Well, try looking up Napalm in the data base. And having carried the M16A1 for its intended purpose, I can only say it is a piece of crap. When I was in the Army we were issued the M14 first. I also carried the M14 for my first tour in Viet Nam. The best part of the M14 is that it makes one hellava good club.

Personely I don't think too much of the IRA. Because of some of the targets. Like how about the school for the army band? What is that supposed to prove? That guns are stronger than trumpets? I don't know all the history of who did what to whom. I think that some parts of the world just don't get along very well. Iraq and Iran, for example.

Anyway, I don't think the song is all that bad. Sounds to me it was written by somebody who had just about all they can take, and are not going to take it any more. In his place, I'd probably do the same.

Say for example, Canadian police came to your town to "keep order" (This is only an example, not ment to slam Canada.). Then things get a tense. People have a tendency to react. Sometimes inocents are hurt in the process. This esclates the tension. etc. etc. till the lid blows off.

I seem to be meandering. The basic point is, post the song. I think if all the songs were removed that tried to influance someone, all we would have left would be Puff the Magic Dragon, and perhaps the theme from Tele-Tubbies.

Or folk would start sounding like the Nashvill version of Country and Western. Neither country or western but some sort of beer drinking, crying, achy breaky BS.

-Fadac -Fadac

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:49 AM

Not at all Wolfgang, and I trust your judgement implicitly - but we were all a lot younger 25 years ago. The dates in the title are a bit of a giveaway though...

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:20 AM

"Songs of Resistance 1968-1975" is the title.
Before you jump to the conclusion that the title gives away to where the royalties go, think of Patrick Galvin's, "Irish Songs of Resistance", a book of a completely other class, both in style and songs (and in who profits from the buy).
Are you sure you could have told the difference from the front page?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:20 AM

Mick, (uh-oh, I'm gonna get into trouble here) you said:

"I would ask that those of you who take the self righteous position of trying to tell others to not express their opinions because you find them offensive to stop. It is not wrong to have and express an opinion. It is wrong to be intolerant of others opinions because you don't agree."

You just did it.

It's important to know if something offends someone else. We may decide what we have to say is more important than the risk of hurting or offending someone. We may all be a little more sensitive. An opinion about what one does or doesn't think is appropriate is just as valid as any other opinion.

I wouldn't sing the song. OTOH, collectors who make judgments on songs' worth end up censoring, bowlderizing, and revising history. Someday far in the peaceful future, someone may wish to sing this song for historical perspective. There are many Scots and American songs about fighting I can think of that have lost their ability to provoke strong reactions. Right now, songs about violence in Ireland dig at an open wound. It won't always be that way.

Respectfully,
Jeri

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:04 AM

Rest assured Mick, if I had seen any posts incorporating lyrics as offensive as those above, I would have objected as strongly.

Wolfgang; your English is better than mine, so you have no worries on that count. It appears I'm a little unclear on this songbook you bought - maybe we should start with the title. I still think you'd have to be pretty naive to not draw the conclusion I did above in the circumstances, as you would if I had bought a book called '52 shades of Orange' in Omagh.

Lastly, Mick, I hate war and violence as much as you do. I am ashamed to share a planet with those who use such means over more appropriate methods. I do think you've seriously missed the point of the song above - what it's saying is that the only answer is murder. Kill 'em all and they won't answer back.

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:00 AM

Mick,
we had remarks about the quality of Orange songs, but I can't find them now. I only have to look into my copy of "The Orange Standard" to see some awful examples. However, I'd post them as well (last time there was a chance, Alison was faster) if there's a request. (Accidentially, I bought this booklet in Dublin too. May I hasten to add that I do not approve of every activity of any organisation which has the words "orange" or "loyalist" or "Ulster" in its name)
One explanation, Mick, why there are fewer remarks to Orange songs, is perhaps that there are many more songs requested and posted that are IRA songs than that are Orange songs. Recent examples are 'Roll of honour' and 'Helicopter song'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 09:35 AM

It is part of the same old thing folks. I just did a scan of the thread on the songs of the Orange Order CLICK HERE and didn't see any of these types of responses. And for the record, Dai, I do support the aims of the IRA which are the reunification of Ireland. And in case you haven't noticed, it isn't the IRA which is holding up the process here, it isn't the IRA who has broken the cease fire despite repeated provocation, and it isn't the IRA who is endangering the Easter accords, but that is another discussion which perhaps we can have in the Back Home In Derry thread. But I do note that you never react to songs from the Orange tradition or point fingers at the Loyalist gunmen. Lest that comment be misconstrued, it is not intended to say what your politics are. It is simply to say that it is typical that people generally, when thinking about the troubles and the violence focus on the Republicans. The facts are that more people have been killed by the Loyalist/Unionist paramilitaries than have been by the IRA. The facts are that more violence is spawned by the provocative actions of the hard line Orange Order Paisleyites than by the Republicans. And yet when anyone expresses support for the Republican side of the issue there is an overreaction. If you go to the thread that I blue clickeyed above, you will note a very civil and tolerant reaction to the songs of the Orange Order. I agree that they are part of the Irish tradition. And it you will do a search on my screen name and read my posts, you will note that they are well thought out and not based on cliche's.
For what its worth, I hate war and violence. It is because I have participated in it, have killed, and have had others try to kill me. I don't like songs which glorify killing or which make light of it. Neither do I like songs which eschew gratuitous violence. This song does neither. It is written from the perspective of an Irish Republican man who has suffered abuse at the hands of Her Majesty's finest. Any one want to argue that the Irish Catholic in the North has not suffered this?? Oh, that's right, BBC won't publicize these attrocities. It is not a very well written lyric, a bit sophomoric, but pales by comparison to some of the Orange songs I have seen.

One last rant before I leave. The test here on the 'Cat has never had to do with opinion. It has always had to do with civility. We are a diverse community which I am privileged to be a relative old timer in. I would ask that those of you who take the self righteous position of trying to tell others to not express their opinions because you find them offensive to stop. It is not wrong to have and express an opinion. It is wrong to be intolerant of others opinions because you don't agree.

All the best from a poor misinformed Yank who just doesn't understand (TIC comment),

Mick

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 09:35 AM

"you bought a product with sectarian content from a pamphleteer, that money went to the cause he or she supported; in the same way that if I buy a Lifeboat sticker...your purchase of that songbook gives tacit approval to the activities of a sectarian organisation"

Dai, I'd appreciate if you'd make a distinction between a deliberate decision to support a cause like in the lifeboat sticker example and a purchase which with the benefit of hindsight can be viewed as having been in effect a support for a cause.

Last year, I went into a restaurant in my home town which later turned out to be a place where the Russian Mafia was "cleaning" money (don't know the correct term). My money helped them in effect to do that, but I'd hate to read about me that I approve of what the Russian Mafia does.
Blame it to my complicated English, if my last post wasn't clear: As a young tourist I bought a songbook on the street. It had among many other lyrics the lyrics to three songs I wanted. That's all.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 08:39 AM

Oh, for those who don't know, an Armalite is the good ol' M16A1. I don't know how it came by the name... (the other one it has is 'Widowmaker')

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 08:36 AM

Wolfgang - I'm under no illusions as to where the 20p you contributed went. My use of the word 'doubtless' was intended to convey the implicit fact that if you bought a product with sectarian content from a pamphleteer, that money went to the cause he or she supported; in the same way that if I buy a Lifeboat sticker on flag day, I expect my contribution to go to the lifeboatmen.

In fact, I'll go further: your purchase of that songbook gives tacit approval to the activities of a sectarian organisation, who have consciously rejected peaceful resolutions in favour of main force.

You will now tell me that the circumstances were entirely different, and you bought it from a one-legged nun who was also peddling an assortment of hookah pipes and copies of the Koran <G>

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 08:14 AM

Politically charged debate is not uncommon to this forum. Denying the existence of a song does not make it go away......but I don't have to sing it. We can talk about songs and and even heatedly debate the issues which can add to the peace and healing process in our own small way, but we have to acknowledge the reality that's out there and by confronting it we progress. Denial leads to things like the "hidden racism" which has gained much ground here in the US during these recent years. But I'll not sing to glorify those who promote violence and hatred on either side of an issue. Many of us who were involved in VietNam, where some time has passed, now no longer sing many of the songs of the era because it cannot bring us any healing.

Northern Ireland was at war long before VietNam and still goes on obviously today. Discussion can aid understanding and denial breeds an insidious, underlying hatred. You are having a good and open discussion. I think that's a significant part of Mudcat and wholly appropriate.......now if we could just spread that out over the rest of the world.......................

And damn, I was hoping this thread wasn't going to get too heavy so I could suggect that "Armalite" is a new product from the SPAM folks......Canned Armadillo with only half the fat!

catspaw

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 07:45 AM

Ferret, I do not want to heat up the discussion in this thread, so just look next week for a thread "Fenian Record Player" (not from that songbook). Mudguard might be quicker.

Dai, if I have hurt your feelings by something I posted beside the lyrics I apologise. I am not sorry, however, for having spent 20p nearly 25 years ago as a young man to buy on the streets of Dublin a small booklet containing several songs I wanted the lyrics of badly like "A nation once again", "The west's asleep", and "A soldier's song". The small print on page two (edited by Sinn Féin) I neither had read before the purchase nor would it have meant anything to me at that time. The term "IRA songbook" is my invention in order to mock about that distinction (IRA/SF). Your word "doubtless" is quite strong in what it implies.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 07:04 AM

MudGuard: springing to Alison's defence, as she is embroiled in the situation this song describes, she is entirely qualified to request moderation and sensitivity. The events and opinions described therein are, in my opinion, too recent, emotive, sensitive and downright wrong to justify inclusion in any intelligent forum.

This is not a song about capital punishment, it is a song glorifying the culture of violence over reasoned compromise. There is no moral message contained therein, and incidentally, Wolfgang, your purchase of that IRA songbook doubtless paid for another bullet.

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Ferret
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 07:01 AM

Dai

I collect folk songs good and bad there are many, many songs of a violent nature and I would not exclude them for this, some people get these from the streets and some from books like the IRA/Sinn Fein songbook but both of these are not available in the U.K.

Folk Songs are the songs of people and all the good and bad ones will upset some one. But they are still Folk Songs and valid for this forum see some of the Jacobite ones.

Please see the Thread Back home in Derry. I am sorry for any offence, non intended.

Wolfgang / Mudguard

Thanks for the lyrics it's much appreciated. I wander do you have the one about the republican gramophone in you book.

Many thanks

Ferret

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: MudGuard
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:57 AM

Alison,

I agree with you that this song is neither funny nor very slightly Republican.

Wether I do agree with the lyrics of this song or not has nothing to do with answering the request!

But how do you want to decide which songs are appropriate?
Is a funny-sounding song about murder and death penalty appropriate in your eyes?
Obviously, as I did not see you complain about postings concerning Weila Weila Waila (however you spell it)...

MudGuard

Subject: Lyr Add: MY LITTLE ARMALITE^^
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:25 AM

I see there's an argument going on about this song. There are songs where I have second thoughts about posting but I follow Alison's line. I post exactly what I have typed at home late last night both for information and since my remarks fit in the discussion. Here it comes:

Here you go, Ferret, and enjoy (and I mean that despite of what comes). I copied it from an IRA/Sinn Féin songbook. However, I don't see why you describe it as 'funny'. To me it doesn't sound like having been written 'tongue in cheek'. Whereas, from having read several books about Northern Ireland, I can understand that the feelings expressed in some of the verses have been shared by a considerable part of the Republican community, the trigger-happy choruses express a feeling for which I have no sympathy. There are many beautiful Irish rebel songs. This one doesn't belong in this category in my opinion.

Wolfgang


MY LITTLE ARMALITE
(tune: Home, boys, home; author: not surprisingly, unnamed)

And it's down in the Bogside, that's where I long to be,
lying in the dark with a Provo company,
a comrade on me left and another on me right
and a clip of ammunition for my little armalite.

I was stopped by a soldier, said he, You are a swine,
he beat me with his baton and he kicked me in the groin,
I bowed and I scraped, sure me manners were polite,
but all the time I'm thinking of my little armalite.

And it's down in Crossmaglen, sure that's where I long to be,
lying in the dark with a Provo company,
a comrade on me left and another on me right
and a clip of ammunition for my little armalite.

Sure a brave RUC man came up into our street,
six hundred British soldiers were gathered 'round his feet.
Come out, ye cowardly Fenians, said he, come out and fight.
But he cried, I'm only joking, when he heard the armalite.

Sure it's down in Kilwilkie, that's where I long to be,
lying in the dark with a Provo company,
a comrade on me left and another on me right
and a clip of ammunition for my little armalite.

Sure, the army came to visit me, 'twas in the early hours,
with Saladins and Saracens and Ferret armoured cars.
They thought they had me cornered, but I gave them all a fright
with the armour-piercing bullets of my little armalite.

And it's down in the Falls Road, that's where I long to be,
lying in the dark with a Provo company,
a comrade on me left and another on me right
and a clip of ammunition for my little armalite.

When Tuzo came to Belfast, he said, The battle's won,
said General Ford, We're winning, Sir, we have them on the run.
But corporals and privates on patrol at night
said, Send for reinforcements, it's the bloody armalite.

And it's up in Ballymurphy, that's where I long to be,
lying in the dark with a Provo company,
a comrade on me left and another on me right
and a clip of ammunition for my little armalite.^^

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:10 AM

Alison

I agree!

Apart from that, my best guess on Olandy-town is "Andersonstown" or a variant of it e.g. "old Andy-town"?

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 03:36 AM

As far as I'm concerned, these songs are not a suitable topic for this forum. Sorry guys, but there you go. You don't find people posting songs about GI Joe amusingly beheaded in the jungle, do you.

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: alison
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 03:31 AM

Hi,

Hardly "slightly republican"!! And sorry I don't find it "funny" either. This sort of stuff from both sides does little to help the peace process... but I'm not going to get into a political argument just helping with the song, same as I would for a unionist one......

The words I'll guess to be Newlodge (an area of Belfast), Padraig is probably right it's the Irish spelling of Patrick.

don't know about "Olandy".

slainte

alison

Subject: Lyr Add: LITTLE ARMALITE^^
From: MudGuard
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 02:13 AM

I was faster, Wolfgang!
Here it comes. There are a few spots where I am not sure. These are marked in red

LITTLE ARMALITE

I was stopped by a soldier he said "you are a swine"
He hit me with his rifle and he kicked me in the groin
I begged and I pleaded, all my manners were polite
But at all a time I'm thinking of my little Armalite.
And it's down in the bogside, that's where I long to be

Chorus   [after each verse]

Lying in the dark with a provo company
A comrade on my left and another one on my right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.

Well a brave RUC came walking down our street
Six hundred British soldiers he had lined up at his feet
"Come out you cowardly Fenians, come on out and fight
But he cried I'm only joking when he heard the Armalite
And it's down along the Falls Road that's where I long to be

Well the army come to visit me it was in the early hours.
With Saracens and Saladins and Ferret armed cars
They thought they had me covered but I gave them all a fright
With the armour piercing bullets from my little Armalite
And it's down in the (Newlarge ???) that's where I long to be

Well when (Padraig ???) came to Belfast said he "the battle's won"
The generals they had told him "we've got them on the run"
But corporals and privates when on patrol at night
Says "Send home for reinforcements, that's the bloody Armalite"
And it's down in Crossmaglen that's where I long to be

And it's up in (Olandy ???) town that's where I long to be
^^

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 04:23 PM

hi wolfgang Thanks alot I'll wait and see.

all the best Ferret

Subject: RE: My little armalite
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 11:29 AM

I have it at home, in my little IRA/Sinn Féin songbook. If nobody else posts it, I'll do so tomorrow.

Wolfgang

Subject: My little armalite
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 11:23 AM

My little Armalite.

Dose any one out there know the lyrics to a very slightly Republican song I think is called 'My little Armalite'.

It has a line in it, I think is the chorus that goes,

'A comrade on my left,
And a comrade on my right,
A clip of ammunition,
And my little Armalite'


I have only hard it the once, from an Irish re-enactor.
And it is one of the funnier Republican songs.
If any one can I would be very grateful.
All the best Ferret