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Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)

DigiTrad:
ALABAMA BOUND
BILL MARTIN AND ELLA SPEED
BRING ME LITTLE WATER, SYLVIE
COTTON FIELDS BACK HOME
DUNCAN AND BRADY
DUNCAN AND BRADY (2)
GOOD NIGHT IRENE
JUMPIN' JUDY
KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF HER
KISSES SWEETER THAN WINE
LININ' TRACK
MIDNIGHT SPECIAL
ROCK ME ON THE WATER
SKEWBALL
SO LONG IT'S BEEN GOOD TO KNOW YUH
SONG TO WOODY
TAKE THIS HAMMER
THE GRAY GOOSE
THE ROCK ISLAND LINE (is a mighty fine line)
WE SHALL WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY
WHOA BACK BUCK
YOU DON'T KNOW ME


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Doctor John 15 Jul 99 - 05:36 PM
Joe Offer 15 Jul 99 - 07:38 PM
16 Jul 99 - 01:48 AM
annamill 16 Jul 99 - 01:59 AM
Joe Offer 16 Jul 99 - 03:21 AM
Doctor John 17 Jul 99 - 04:16 PM
Art Thieme 17 Jul 99 - 08:36 PM
catspaw49 17 Jul 99 - 10:17 PM
Joe Offer 18 Jul 99 - 03:05 AM
Art Thieme 18 Jul 99 - 02:59 PM
Art Thieme 18 Jul 99 - 03:26 PM
Penny S. 18 Jul 99 - 05:34 PM
Doctor John 19 Jul 99 - 01:48 PM
wysiwyg 21 Mar 09 - 12:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 09 - 03:04 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 09 - 05:44 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 09 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,Stevo 25 Dec 09 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 09 - 03:12 AM
GUEST,Beeds 24 Jan 10 - 09:27 PM
Roger the Skiffler 31 Oct 10 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 31 Oct 10 - 07:31 AM
GUEST 20 Nov 10 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Doc John 21 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,Liz 04 Aug 11 - 03:38 AM
Jim Dixon 06 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,barrelhouse words :a blues dialect 23 Aug 11 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,matsyodara 06 Sep 12 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,matsyodara 06 Sep 12 - 12:29 PM
GUEST 19 Aug 14 - 09:22 AM
GUEST 19 Aug 14 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,iwbiek 30 Dec 17 - 03:05 PM
GUEST,Armchair Farmer 30 Dec 17 - 09:41 PM
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Subject: Pigmeat revisited
From: Doctor John
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 05:36 PM

Does anyone have an accurate transcription of the words to Lead Belly's "Pigmeat": and the translation! Where does the song come from? I've seen one line given as "take a pole and try it" and "...cold from china" is two separtate collections, although I think it's referring to a breed of pig or something. Any ideas? Dr John.


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: PIGMEAT (Huddie Ledbetter)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 07:38 PM

Can't say I know what it means, but here are the lyrics.
-Joe Offer-

PIGMEAT
(Huddie Ledbetter)
Publisher: Folkways Music Publishers, Inc.


Just look a here Mama
You don't treat pig meat the way you should.
Oh, you don't treat pig meat the way you should.
If you don't believe this is pigmeat
Ask anybody in your neighborhood.

If you don't believe this is pigmeat
Kind that you won't regret,
If you don't believe this is pigmeat
Kind that you won't regret,
I got something about this pigmeat
Mama, that I ain't told yet.

I was born and raised in the country,
Mama, but I'm stayin' in town.
I was born and raised in the country,
Mama, but I'm stayin' in town.
If you don't believe this is pigmeat
Mama, from my head on down.

JRO

MIDI file: PIGMEAT.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: Pigmeat
Text: By Huddie Ledbetter
Copyright: Copyright © Folkways Music Publishers, Inc.
Key: A
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Start
0000 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 72 110 0142 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 66 110 0160 0 66 000 0032 1 64 110 0192 0 64 000 0000 1 60 110 0528 0 60 000 0624 1 72 110 0862 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0046 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0046 0 73 000 0002 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0062 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 66 110 0160 0 66 000 0032 1 64 110 0192 0 64 000 0000 1 60 110 0528 0 60 000 0624 1 69 110 0046 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0046 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0046 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0046 0 69 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 71 110 0142 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0046 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0192 0 64 000 0000 1 61 110 1104 0 61 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Pigmeat
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:A
=c2=c3/2=c/2B2AE|-E=c/2=c/2=c2B3/4B/2B3/4A2|
F2E2=C4|-=C8|=c8|-=c8|=cc7|-c3/2c/2=c2B3/4B/2B3/4A2|
F2E2=C4|-=C8|A8|-A/2A/2A/2A/2B2B3/2B/2BB|
-BB=c=cBBAA|FFE2C4|-C15/2||


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From:
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:48 AM

That's amazin - I just love Huddie's singin - boy he 'can' sing. One of the things that makes folk gureatt, there is little profit in it so the singers sing cause the love singin :) I believe the Pig Meat he refers to is a slang word meaning ---I don't know


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: annamill
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:59 AM

How can I load this Midi stuff. I love Leadbelly and would love to hear this song. But, alas! I have no idea what the heck I'm doin'. Some Senior Programmer/Analyst, huh?

I clicked on the download thingy and had an error.

"sniff"

LOL annap


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Subject: MIDITXT
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 03:21 AM

I meant to fix that, Anna - thanks for reminding me. The link above should work OK now, and send you to a site where the file is available. Alan's had some problem at his Website, so I've got it working at mine.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Doctor John
Date: 17 Jul 99 - 04:16 PM

Thanks Joe; it's seems nobody can come up with the meaning. There's another puzzling verse:- You can take me to the mountains and we'll find(?) pigmeat there. Take a ?????? stand a test just anywhere (???) Ooo a test just anywhere (???) Take a ?????? stand a test just anywhere. Can anyone help on this please? Dr John


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jul 99 - 08:36 PM

Pigmeat Markham was a fun Afro-American humorist & raconteur back in the 40s and 50s. Same time as Moms Mabely and Redd Foxx's early work on 78 rpm records.

I'll never forget Redd's "FUGG SOAP" monologue which ended with, ",,,you just take a bar and go Fugg yourself." Where (I believe) the Village Fuggs took/got the name for their band. (recorded on Folkways; irreverant & unique---very '60s)

Art


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jul 99 - 10:17 PM

Oh yeah Art!!!!!!!!

......Lessee' now....I think there was also a line that FUGG was better than other soap cleaners so "if you can't clean it, FUGG IT." I used that one a lot in early adulthood......And wasn't FUGG made by "one of America's Foremost Manufacturers. We've been manufacturing Foremost for years. If you like Foremost, try our Giant Economy Size, Fivemost."......and "if you don't like it, return the unused portion of the product and we'll return the unused portion of your money." Was that the same routine or not???

Maybe I'll try to order some FUGG for the next time I offend someone with "dirty toilet humor." Do you remember Lenny's bit about "So I began to wonder, How dirty is my toilet."????????

Why can guys like us remember these long past "bits" and yet not remember to flush? Karen brought this to my attention the other day. I blamed it on the boys. Didn't work.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 03:05 AM

But do we have an answer at to what's the "pigmeat" Leadbelly's talking about? I liked your story, Art, but is that the answer?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 02:59 PM

Paw,

We used to listen to those 78s when the family went to the store for booze & cigarettes!! And Andy Griffith's monologue on football: "The idea was to get the ball from one end of the field to the other without fallin' down or steppin' in something" But that was on a 45 rpm record. 'Twas an introductiion to sex, for me anyhow & to risque/risky humor.---along with "8-pagers"---remember those?? Ah, nostalgia.

But nowhere was there anything called wuzzzums... Must be a generation X thing.

Art


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 03:26 PM

I'm not certain, Joe, if pigmeat can be made into a form that is longer than it is wide, but if you replace the apple in the roast pig's mouth with a few Viagra it might work. The concept is phalic probably (I think).

Art


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 05:34 PM

Mr Punch, of Punch and Judy, gets a great deal of laughs by waving sausages around. Long narrow pigmeat?


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Subject: RE: Pigmeat revisited
From: Doctor John
Date: 19 Jul 99 - 01:48 PM

My wife Gilly mentioned that "pigmeat" was a colloquial term from years ago (possibly the victorians) for human flesh and perhaps Lead Belly is saying that he has no value as a human being but is just a lump of meat. Dr John


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 12:27 PM

Pigmeat indeed.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100917&messages=296&page=1&desc=yes#2594045

~S~


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Subject: Lyr Add: PIG MEAT PAPA (Lead Belly)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 03:04 PM

Lyr. Add: PIG MEAT PAPA
Lead Belly, 1935

(Instrumental verse intro)

Just look a-here mama, don't treat pig meat the way you do
Ooooh don't treat pigmeat the way you do
If you don't believe it's pigmeat,
ask anybody in the neighborhood.

If you don't believe it's pigmeat,
[come down here on the grass ?]
Ooooh, [come down here on the grass ?]
I got somethin' about a pigmeat,
sweet mama I ain't told you yet.

I was born and raised in the country,
mama but I'm a stayin' in town
(spoken) In New York City is what I'm talkin' about (/spoken)
I was born and raised in the country,
mama but I'm a stayin' in town
If you don't believe it's pigmeat,
mama put my head on down.

(Instrumental verse)

(spoken) She looked at the man and I looked at the woman
She knows this was Lead Belly, wasn't nothin' but pure pig meat
All over Shreveport Looziana, and all in Texarkana
And I was runnin' with a gal named Sylvana,
she looked at me and here' what she said, the last words (/spoken)

You can take me to the mournin', and there will be pigmeat there
You can take me to the mournin' mama, will be pigmeat there
You can take the bull to China, down to church, just anywhere

Ooooh, a church, just anywhere
Woooh, a church, just anywhere
Take the bull to China, down to church, just anywhere

(Four bars out)
"12 string in standard down 4 semitones to C and played in F position, actual pitch is D flat"

ARC 17181-2 unissued; "transcribed from Lead Belly King of the 12-String Guitar, Columbia Roots 'N' Blues 467893.

Needs checking. Transcription by Weenie Campbell.
http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=4318.msg43833


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 05:44 PM

Just listened to "Pigmeat Papa", and the second verse is incorrect.
It is not 'come down here on the grass,' but I can't understand what he sings.


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Subject: Lyr Add: PIGMEAT (Leadbelly)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 05:58 PM

In the recording with Brownie McGee, Lead Belly sings it differently from that posted by Joe.

PIGMEAT

Just look here, Mama,
You don't treat pigmest the way you should.
Ohhh, you don't treat pigmeat the way you should.
If you don't believe this is pigmeat
Ash anybody in your neighborhood.

If you don't believe this is pigmeat,
Kind that you won't regret.
Ohhh, kind that you won't regret.
I got something 'bout this pigmeat
Mama, that I ain't told you yet.

I was born and raised in the country,
Mama, but I'm stayin' in town
Ohhh, but I'm stayin' in town.
If you don't believe this is pigmeat,
Mama from my head on down.

You can take a bull to China,
You will find pigmeat there.
Ohhh, you will find pigmeat there.
You can take a bull to China,
?? You'll find pigmeat just anywhere.

Last verse needs checking.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Stevo
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 05:56 PM

Pigmeat is suggestive in nature. Picture a man bragging to the world that he could satisfy another woman sexually anytime, anyday in any location as if to lure a woman with a high sexual libido. Don't cha think?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 09 - 03:12 AM

"Huddie Ledbetter learned quick how politically-correct bread was buttered, and on which side. He learned to knock off singing about Brownskin Women and Yaller Gals, to hold back on all the Pigmeat Papa stuff. Prissy young Pete Seeger and his permanently PC Weavers would change the words of "Good Night, Irene" to "I'll see you in my dreams..." from the darker, dirtier, more dangerous "I'll get you in my dreams." Nothing like a fool, Leadbelly learned to fake the party line and commenced singing something he called "The Bourgeois Blues." It was a title that cut on every edge, more edges than the Folkways folk have ever understood."

from the following site/blog. (Seems well researched as a btw.)

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:dbQD3jiDfSgJ:bartbull.blogspot.com/2008/09/leadbelly-and-ironhead.html+pigmeat,+leadbelly,+
It's interesting to note that "pigmeat" does not appear in Webster's. They have had the word 'fuck' for years, and many other 'crude' terms. If we ever figure out what pigmeat is or refers to, we should make an effort to ensure it gets into the next edition of Webster's by providing a published source.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Beeds
Date: 24 Jan 10 - 09:27 PM

I've been foxed by these lyrics for many years. For the most part they are in the above posts but, there still remains the mystery of the last verse.
I used to sing "You can take a poll and count it, I'll pass the test (jes'[just] or yes) anywhere.
After reading the posts above I hear nothing about a 'bull' but I do now hear 'China' rather than 'count it'.
On further listening, it sounds like he is mentioning three place names. F?????, Polon,(Poland??) China, to affirm that he can pass the test most anywhere.
Have also listened to Georgia Brown's version to see if it would yield any clues but, I'm afraid to say, I remain at status quo.
Coming from the UK leaves me at a huge disadvantage when it comes to American place names, perhaps someone out there could, again, grasp the nettle???
I can remember reading somewhere, years ago, that 'Pigmeat' was confidence, of a sexual nature one would presume from the context of the song, thus agreeing with what was alluded to above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:29 AM

...an invitation to "hide the sausage" surely?

RtS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:31 AM

I seem to remember that the late Joanne Kelly recorded a version of this song containing the couplet

You go out acorn huntin'
Growlin' and a-gruntin'

It was that album she made with Woody Mann, amongst others - in a yellow sleeve.

Perhaps Woody could shed some light on the song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 04:26 PM

" Pigmeat, for example, is a deliberate acknowledgement of the status accorded to African-
Americans in the past. 'Most unclean animal by Biblical standards, the pig was
rated of more importance to the planter than the slave, who remained conscious of
being "treated like a hog"'(Oliver, 1990: 112). The irony lay in the fact that
certain blues singers prided themselves on being a 'rooting ground-hog'or 'dirty
ground-hog' as a direct challenge to their earlier abasement. In addition, bacon,
chitterlings, hog's maws, pig feet, ham and other meats were regarded as delicacies
and cheap to obtain."

From "The bedroom blues: love and lust in the lyrics of early female blues artists" by Greg Watson.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM

Glad the thread is still around. No I can't hear 'bull' either; is it perhaps 'Polish China' a breed of pig.
One day we'll find the meaning!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Liz
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 03:38 AM

There's a Toni Morrison book that has the term Pig Meat in it too. In that respect it means a really young attractive girl, probably a virgin. Not entirely a derogatory term either!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM

From a glossary in Wit, Character, Folklore & Customs of the North Riding of Yorkshire by Richard Blakeborough (London: Henry Frowde, 1898), page 429:

Pigmeat: The refuse of the kitchen and dinner-table gathered together, and saved with other swill in a tub for pig-food.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,barrelhouse words :a blues dialect
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 08:38 PM

Pigmeat is a young woman and Hogmeat is a older woman

A more modern slang translation
Pigmeat = Jailbait
Hogmeat = Milf

From 1929
Willie Baker
"Bad luck Moan"
Some likes pigmeat, Hogmeats what I crave
I believe they sure gonna, carry me to my grave.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,matsyodara
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 07:08 AM

You can take me to the mountain
There will be pigmeat there
You can take me to the mountain mama
There will be pigmeat there
You take the Poland China
Stand the test just any where.
Oh, a test just anywhere
Oh, a test just any where
You take the Poland China, stand test just anywhere


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,matsyodara
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 12:29 PM

This is the real deal


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:22 AM

According to one site "Pig meat is Black-American slang for an older woman"
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi-bin/res.pl?keyword=Pig+Meat&offset=0


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:26 AM

Whilst here it says that Pigmeat "was slang for young stuff - as in jail bait."
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2010/11/the-forgotten-pigmeat-markham.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,iwbiek
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 03:05 PM

I know this might not be popular, but I tend to believe blues lyrics make sense most of the time, and that the perceived crypticisms are usually due to poor enunciation/pronunciation and/or poor recording quality.

Therefore, my vote goes for "take a boat to China."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pigmeat (Leadbelly)
From: GUEST,Armchair Farmer
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:41 PM

A Poland China is a breed of American domestic pig, from 1800's Ohio, crossing a Polish pig and a Big China pig for one of the largest breeds at the time. That may be the lyric opposed to "take a boat to China"


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