Music: Police and Striking Miners

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: teller
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 07:24 AM

Whilst the arguments for and against the taking of a life ( whether intended or not, whether involved in the dispute or not ) are relevant to the thread - and I'm sorry, but NO 'cause*' is worth the loss of life - does anybody know of any songs that put the alternate viewpoint? * By 'cause', I'm refering to disputes of the nature of the miner's/dockers and not the general mayhem that goes under the catchall banner of 'war'.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: George
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 06:15 AM

Oh, I admire Scargill, despite his failings.

As for the Liverpool Dockers - I thought the TV DramaDoc they made of their story (UK Chanel 4 about a week ago) was remarkably good - including (for the not quite one and only dai) some sympathetic consideration of WHY workers will strike break, and the stresses of doing so. Far more dimensions to it than I'd expected. AND I thought the music was good - I didn't spot any credits for it; does anyone have any info on this?

G.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:37 PM

Well I quite admire Arthur Scargill.

Shall we try the Liverpool dockers next?

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From:
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 11:26 AM

Please read what I wrote . . I've already answered your question. Remember it was you who said the death was murder - apparently well aware that, in fact, a higher court had over-rulled that charge. Quite properly, if you look at the thing logically rather than emotively.

And why object to my "colourful" use of "blackleg" and then go on to use the word in exactly the same sense yourself?

G.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:56 AM

In any case, even if he had been a blackleg, are you implying that it's OK to drop rocks on people who don't toe the union line???

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:54 AM

The murder case was indeed where the stone was dropped off a bridge onto the A463 near Blaenau. The occupant of the car was not a 'blackleg', as you so colourfully put it, but was a guy driving a car. I don't think his job, name or background were ever mentioned in the press or on TV. The charge was slackened because the kids who dropped the rock were just dropping a rock, and hadn't set out to kill anybody.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: George
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:57 AM

A few points from this thread:

Someone asked: > Ah, but was Scargill right in principle?

Yes, actually, history suggests he was. He claimed there were plans to virtually shut down the mining industry in the UK and that was what the strike was about. That was never the public perception of the strike, but his prediction proved true.

Whether he was right in how he conducted the strike is another matter. In particular, in his insistence in defying the law FOR THE SAKE OF DOING SO (as in not calling a strike ballot when he would clearly have won such a vote) - well, IMO there were cases (as just instanced) where I belive he was seriously and dangerously wrong.

As for violence on both sides of this dispute - to my mind one characteristic of this strike was the level and amount of deliberate, planned violence by the police against the miners. And, indeed, the high level of other illegality on the part of the police (illegal road blocks; illegal confiscation of food destined for strikers). It seems to me that the police were - unofficially - given 'carte blance' in their conduct of the policing of the dispute, with a clear sub-text that anything they could do to undermine the dispute would meet with the Government's approval. And by heavens did they make use of that licence. [Which is not in any way to condone violence initiated by strikers.]

As for the deaths during the strike. As my memory serves me (do correct me if anyone knows better) the case of murder was where a large stone was tipped from a bridge onto a blackleg's car. If this is the case referred to, it's important to note that on appeal the conviction was reduced to one for manslaughter.

Again IIRC Gaughan's "True and Bold" LP was NOT a miners' strike benefit (I'll have to check at home) but a Scotish TUC celbration. However there was a double-tape benefit recording (on Fuse records, IIRC; that being Roy Bailey's label). Very varied material, almost all excellent. It was my favourite in-car listening for many years (to the extent that the tape stretched!). I could look out track listings if anyone's interested. Opens and closes with a wonderful speech of Tony Benn's in the House of Commons, dubbed over the Grimethorpe Collery Band playing "Raise your banners".

And - while strictly not on-topic - don't forget the film "Brassed off" . .

Just my few bob's worth

But as for Scargill's "Socialist Labour Party" claim to be the 4th biggest party in English politics - dream on, Arthur!!

G.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: teller
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:34 AM

The_one_and_only_Dai has a point......there was wrong on both sides of the fence - and while nobody supports the tactics employed by Mags & her minions, can we afford to condone the, equally abhorent, physicality used by the flying pickets, et al ? And for that matter, has anybody tried to chronicle, in song, the reasons why the 'scabs' did what they did? And this takes us back to other mining disputes immortalised in song that also failed to give the other side of the coin - I think of, in particular, 'Blackleg Miners.'

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: Doctor John
Date: 19 Jul 99 - 01:45 PM

Heck, there's no black and white in this. Thugs and yobs will join any side just to practice a bit of thuggery or yobbery. To me the whole point was Maggie trying to break the mineworker's union and the miners, who were not only powerful but working class heroes who always attracted public sympathy. Arthur Scargill - no matter what you thing of him - was proved to be right. To me the worst scenes (hence the thread title) were seeing the police (whatever happened to the British Bobby*) armed and horsed like a medieval knights fighting the miners. Did children really play "police and striking miners" in the play ground. *Fact:- During the last year one person per fortnight has been killed by a speeding police car and one person a week dies in police custody; perhaps they only arrest the terminally ill! Figures on BBC Radio 4.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 19 Jul 99 - 07:04 AM

Slightly weird contribution - "Radio Chaos" by Roger Waters (yes, him) was about the Miners' Strike at a very personal level.

BTW, I hope we don't go the way of the Republican Song threads with this one. As someone who was 15 when the strike was going on, and living in Port Talbot at the time, I recall with nothing but bitterness the attempts of the Scargillite Trade Unionists trying to force steel workers from going to work. Flying pickets, hundreds strong, would gather at the entrances of the Abbey, and brick cars and buses as they drove in at changeover time. Attempted arson, beatings, threatening letters, all arrived at one or more neighbours' houses during the summer.

There was no principle involved.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 06:48 PM

Ah, but was Scargill right in principle? Ok, he fell for a set-up by the malevolent Thatcher that was worthy of anything in Lustbader's "Tactics of Mistake", but the world is a poorer place. His "Socialist Labour Party" claims to be the 4th biggest party in English politics.

Another good song is Coope Booyes and Simpson's "Didn't I go like a lamb to the Slaughter".

Subject: Lyr Add: BALLAD OF 84 (Dick Gaughan)
From: gargoyle
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 05:30 AM

Ballad of 84

words and music by Dick Gaughan - 1984

Come gather round me people and I'll sing to you a song
About a famous battle that went on for so long
It's a tale of grief and courage of pain and bravery
One of the finest pages written in our history
We all know songs that tell of workers' struggles long ago
Of UCS, Tolpuddle, Shrewsbury, Pentonville and so I'm here
To sing to you the praises of the women and the men
Who dared the might of Tory spite the future to defend

Twas in March of 1984 the gauntlet was thrown down
When MacGregor told the NUM, "These pits are closing down"
"Och, get on your bike, MacGregor", the miners' answer came
"We fought the Board in 74 and we'll fight you once again"
From S Wales across to Yorkshire, from Scotland down to Kent
The miners showed the NCB that what they said, they meant
Except the scabs who sold their future out to Thatcher and her gang
And turned traitor to their class, their names forever damned

In Fleet Street and in Downing Street, a wondrous sight was seen
New-found converts to democracy soon all began to scream
"You can't strike without a ballot", well-fed mouths were heard to bleat,
"You won't ballot us out of our jobs, we're voting with our feet"
Soon armies of blue uniforms were marching through the land
With horses, dogs and riot shields and truncheons in both hands
But the miners took on everything the government could throw
And went back again to battle on with shouts of "Here we go!"

The battle wasn't only only by courageous mining men
For the women joined the struggle fighting side by side with them
In every area of battle women hurried to the fight
In rallies and at meetings and out on the picket lines
And in support groups up and down the land our comrades rallied round
The cry went up "They Shall Not Starve" and cash and food were found
To keep the miners and their families in solidarity
And show the world the working class would never bow the knee

Let's pause here to remember the men who gave their lives
Joe Green and David Jones were killed in fighting for their rights
But their courage and their sacrifice we never will forget
And we won't forget the reason, too, they met an early death
For the strikebreakers in uniforms were many thousand strong
And any picket who was in the way was battered to the ground
With police vans driving into them and truncheons on the head
It's just a bloody miracle that hundreds more aren't dead

So here's to Arthur Scargill, Heathfield and McGahey too
Who led the strike together in defence of me and you
And Malcolm Pitt and Davie Hamilton and the rest of them as well
Who were torn from home and family and locked in prison cells
But the battle will go on until the working class has won
For the right to work and decent lives belongs to everyone
We'll go forward now in unity, let's share the miners' load
There can only be one answer - socialism, here we go!

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 03:25 AM

Ah, Gargoyle. It's always great to hear from you. --seed BTW, to what "man" do I pay dues (church lady says "Could it be...[voice gets loud and resonant]...SATAN?)? And the Berkeley Teachers' strike was in 1975, only 24 years ago this September.

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: gargoyle
Date: 18 Jul 99 - 12:05 AM

Be carefull of Seed

He speaks like he knows the cause....(30 years ago at a Berkley teacher's strike)

But today,,,,,,he pays his dues to "the man."

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 17 Jul 99 - 11:03 PM

Suzanne, what a pair: Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger. What a fine bunch of songs. Somewhere I have a tape made at the miners' strike, from the miners' point of view, about half songs and half interviews with striking miners, union organizers, miners' family members. I remember that the "Miners' Wife" song is on that tape, but I don't recognize the others (of course, since I haven't heard it in years, my memory isn't very clear). I do remember a "What'll we do with Mac MacGregor?" (and Margaret Thatcher and several other names) to the tune of "Whattaya Do with a Drunken Sailor." I also remember a different song about the media, a couple of television reporters or that ilk, describing the benefits they're reaping by suppressing the miners' side of the issue. I'll look for the tape and post the songs if I find it (it was given to me by a dog park friend of mine, a union organizer in Richmond, California, who was a veteran of the strike. His first name is Pat, but I can't remember his last name {his dog's name is Toughy--or Tuffy]). --seed

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 17 Jul 99 - 09:06 PM

The songs on the tape 'Daddy What Did You Do In The Strike' are the title track, Villains' Chorus, Holy Joe From Scabsville, The Media, Only Doing Their Job, Miner's Wife. I'll post them in separate threads. I also have the following info but no account of the strike as a whole. Does anyone know of one?

[1988:] As in the miners' strike of 1844, [in the 1984-85 strike] a profusion of poems and songs sprang from those involved and from their supporters. [...] The veteran singer/songwriter Ewan MacColl contributed what are probably the outstanding songs: [Daddy What Did You Do In The Strike & Only Doing Their Job]. The tune for the latter is based on The Chapter of Kings, which was used for both Jone o' Grinfilt and The Keelman's Stick. (Roy Palmer, The Sound of History 117f)

[1989:] The miners' strike [of 1984/85] lasted 358 days, and [...] cost fourteen deaths (one of them officially a murder), nearly 10,000 arrests, thousands of injuries to both miners and police, and over £7 billion of taxpayers' money. It was a dispute about pit closures and the future of mining communities that was seen by much of the media and the public in more simple terms, as a show of strength between a hard-line left-winger, Arthur Scargill, the miners' leader, and an apostle of market forces, Margaret Thatcher. The media, for the most part, reflected public opinion in their hostility towards the miners, particularly as the bitterness and violence grew. (Robin Denselow, When the Music's Over 212)

The tracks on Dick Gaughan's album 'True and Bold' are:

DRUNK RENT COLLECTOR, AUCHENGEICH DISASTER, BLANTYRE EXPLOSION (in the DT), WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON (in the DT), ONE MINER'S LIFE, SCHOOLDAYS OVER (in the DT), COLLIER LADDIE (in the DT), POUND A WEEK RISE, MINER'S LIFE IS LIKE A SAILOR'S (in the DT as Miner's Lifeguard), FAREWELL TO COTIA, BALLAD OF EIGHTY-FOUR. I'll try and post the missing ones before long. - Susanne

Subject: RE: Police and Striking Miners
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 08:03 PM

Dick Gaughan made a tape 'True and Bold' in support of the 1984/85 strike, and Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger wrote a whole set of new songs for it, called 'Daddy What Did You Do In The Strike'.

Subject: Police and Striking Miners
From: Doctor John
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 05:43 PM

Did anyone chronicle the 1980's UK miners' strike in song? They should have done. The battle between Maggie and King Arthur. The breakup of the NUM and K.A. proved right in the end. An unsuccessful attempt to discredit him by a certain fat investigative jounalist - no appology. And our image of the Birtish police shattered forever: no longer PC Dixon but class traitors in armour and on horseback. What an excellent CD it would make! Dr John.