Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?

Subject: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 08:30 AM

Sidders 2009 is over and done with. The Cat has been really quiet for the last week but can we expect it to overflow now?

Come on, you lucky people, we want reports from Sidmouth

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM

It Rained , for a change !

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 08:39 AM

Bet it wasn't as bad as that awful year, 97/98 or thereabouts, where we actually had a river running under the caravan!

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM

I'm sitting here listening to Jim Moray's set from the Silent Folkin' Disco, which was definitely one of the highlights of the week for me.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 09:24 AM

I was told by the horse's mouth that Jim Causley's set was pretty damn fine as well [grins] ... The weather on Wednesday and Friday was great - can't say the same about Tuesday, when I got soaked and achieved some street cred by getting muddy toes and shoes (open toed sandals) and mud encrusted jeans (not bad for someone who wasn't camping) just by walking into the Music Tent in Blackmore Gardens - no walkways to keep you out of the mud from the path to the entrance to the tent ... boo hiss! Got my lemonade from Sally, though. Highlight for the week for me was always going to be meeting up with old friends for a sing, a chat, and enjoyment of good music.... and so it proved.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 09:29 AM

Mixed weather, quite often not as much seemed to be happenening around the pubs. Not so sure Blackmore is best place for the music tent.Always good to be there though.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jane Bird
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 10:19 AM

Tuesday (the day that it rained all day) could have been so rubbish, for me. It was my one day off from stewarding and I woke up on the wrong side of bed. The cloud was so thick at the campsite that you couldn't see half-way down the field. However, after that somewhat grim start, Simon Care's lunch time concert was spot on and thoroughly cheered me up, we fitted in a couple of very wet dances at the Anchor to Random (who were on top form) and to top it all off, Edward II were completely awesome at the Bulverton. Better than ever - I'm so glad they reformed for this year :-)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Cats
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:47 PM

Might still be quiet as it is Bideford this week and quite a few go to Dartmoor then straight on to Bideford.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:50 PM

And then of course there is Broadstairs...

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 02:33 PM

Perhaps they're scared to post, because whatever they do say will be picked on, disagreed with, and dissected, ad nauseam.

JM

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: naughtyforty
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 02:53 PM

I had a great time despite the weather and the awful state of the campsite (I managed not to get muddy toes until Thursday at Blackmore Gardens!!!) Spooky Men were fab and I actually went to some concerts this year in between sessions and stewarding - roll on next year I say (but I'm not camping!)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:47 PM

John, by you and who else?

Naughty40 - who have you persuaded to put you in the lap of luxury, do tell?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:03 PM

If you come out of your left wing wonderland Mr Bridge, you may have perceived that I am not around here much any more. However, any time you want your pomposity pricked, I'm you man.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:42 PM

Loved it

Mike Wilson's singing was fantastic and the rest of the Peter Bellamy tribute concert was great as well

Spiers and Boden were stunning; Hugh Lupton's storytelling great and the Dhol Foundation were a pure joy.


Loved the Methodist Church as a venue - Spooky Men were great in there.

Found Mawkin: Causley underwhelmimg

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

Oh dear, another dimmer. You come here, John, offering to dissect and criticise. Twig?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:22 AM

Groan.

Monday morning and back to the old routine.

My Sidmouth was great - though I had to forgo buying ice cream, alcohol and have ready made hot food sparingly - and the price for parking at the Rugby club had gone up quite a bit.

I have discovered that I am a shanty snob.

I wince when there is a nonsense line or wrong term used.

When the writer of a song with sailing content obviously knows their subject it is quite a relief.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:26 AM

I agree with John, a lot of people probably won't be posting due to the nastiness that has occurred on Sidmouth threads in the past. I only dropped into this by chance as I rarely use Mudcat anymore due to the unpleasantness that crops up even on innocent discussions. I'll keep my discussion about Sidmouth to Facebook and the Middle Bar Group

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Marilyn
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:56 AM

Really enjoyed it. Our whole band rented a flat round the corner from the Bedford on Station Road so the cost wasn't too bad shared betwenn six of us and we had somewhere dry and comfy to stay. If you saw a group of well-oiled people playing on the top floor balcony (or trying to play with that much wine flowing!) - that was us.

Got very muddy toes and jeans on Tuesday going to the Music Tent in Blackmore. Like Surreysinger I was horrified that there were no boards as the approach was in a dreadful state. There were boards next time I went so was very glad someone got it sorted.

I avoided concerts in the Ham Marquee (can't stand the volume and can't cope with the heat so it's best just to stay away) but some of the band went to several concerts and really enjoyed Spiers and Boden in particular. Well, who wouldn't!

I went to the John Spiers melodeon masterclass with the other melodeon player in our band and got a lot out of it. Also Vicky Swan's Scottish small pipes workshop was great - a chance to have a go without feeling too much of a fool.

All in all a fabulous holiday which we thoroughly enjoyed - who can ask for more?

Marilyn

p.s. Quite a lot of people took photos of our band playing on the balcony and also playing under the arches on the road up to Connaught Gardens - if you were one of them would you be willing to email any copies, please? Our website is www.halfepannikin.co.uk and my contact details are on there. t.i.a.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:02 AM

"I'm sitting here listening to Jim Moray's set from the Silent Folkin' Disco, which was definitely one of the highlights of the week for me." (Ruth Archer)..."disco"...what next - traditional singarounds replaced by folk karaoke?!

Poem 213 of 230: MORE AMOR PATRIAE

There is Tai Chi AND there is tennis,
    Line is fine BUT so is Morris,
There is curry AND there is the roast,
    AND, when England is playing host,
It is the rest-of-the-world's good wish
    To sense culture that is English.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:19 AM

As a confirmation of John MacKenzies (And Lynne's) post , here is WAV leaping in with both feet about something he has NOT attended and knows NOTHING about !

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM

I love Mudcat.

WAV, Sidmouth contained around 500 programmed events this year - and that doesn't include the fringe. The Silent Folkin' Disco was one event amongst many, many traditional ones. It was a phenomenal success, and an answer to a problem - we could not hold late night events at Bulverton on Sunday last year because of noise restrictions, and Silent Disco meant that this year we could. Simples.

The DJs were Jim Moray, Eliza Carthy, Jim Causley and Pete Lawrence from the Big Chill. Quite often there was folk music to be heard, but equally often mashed together with something decidedly not folk - my favourite of Jim Moray's inspirted mixes was Adam Ant's Stand and Deliver with Eliza Carthy and the Kings of Calicutt's Good Morning Mr Walker. Glorious.

I was also proud of the giant bugs walking around, which added just the right note of wierdness. Even the Witchmen's morris set, stuck in the middle of a disco, worked. It was a great night, the venue was rammed, and I have no doubt we'll do something similar again. Silent ceilidh, anyone...?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:44 AM

If you post your PM here, LF, I can respond to it here (as I've done by PM). Re: "NOTHING about!" - I've enjoyed most of the highlights of the 50th Sidmouth (via the BBC) but, yes, have not yet been.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:48 AM

Thanks for detailing what LF just sent me by PM, Ruth - and, as I replied by PM, why not an "English county dance to recorded English music", then?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:06 AM

OK W A V , Get on the Festival Committe and organise something yourself , instead of criticising an Event that you have never attended !

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:18 AM

"as I replied by PM, why not an "English county dance to recorded English music", then?"

Because it wasn't. Because we have lots of different audiences at Sidmouth who all enjoy different things. Because it's fun to do something different that no one else has done. Because Sidmouth is big enough and diverse enough that you can build the festival that suits you, without having to do any of the things that don't, and still have enough activity to fill every day.

As LF says, come down some time and see for yourself.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Jim Moray
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:28 AM

Hi WAV,

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with your poem. I played mostly English music -   The Bonny Breast Knot mixed into Lily Allens london song 'LDN', Eliza Carthy into Adam and the Ants 'Stand and Deliver'. There were people doing ceilidh figures, morris stepping and typical nightclub moves all together. The aim was to make this - http://www.thelineofbestfit.com/wp-content/media/2009/07/englishfolkdances.jpg - come true. and it worked. What I'm interested in is the integration of this stuff into everyday life - i.e. Morris IS fine and it happily co-exists alongside all of the glorious diversity of other stuff around us. I can be equally proud and contented in turning up to a dance out at the weekend in Morris kit as I can in going to a club with my mates. It's all strands of the same thing. I would take it from your poem that you would agree.

Come on - I dare you to tell me that I don't understand English culture as well as you. I dare you.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:54 AM

Too much Sidders ceilidhing to see Jim. In fact I haven't yet but I am reliably informed that a certain Jim Mory is No.5 in the Simon Care Trio (sic) playing for the Town Hall Barn Dance in Cheltenham see cresby.com Sun Dec 27 - book early- expect it to be full on the day and with Jim playing - that is guaranteed.

FWIW Jim was an excelent folk ambassidor on R4's Loose Ends not so long ago.

I am sure I could muster criticisms about Sidders - but why would I - rather I should suggest a better way. And maybe I will........

They wot don't make mistakes don't make nuffink.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM

" Like Surreysinger I was horrified that there were no boards as the approach was in a dreadful state"
Errmm, no Marilyn, I didn't say I was horrified, as I wasn't .. just booed and hissed that my trousers and feet had got muddy. My own fault for not noticing how soggy the grass actually was until it was too late. As you say it was (partially) rectified later. The downpour hadn't been that evident before it arrived, so you can't expect duckboards to be put down on the strength of ESP!!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Essex Girl
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:02 AM

Great week. I enjoyed every concert I saw (and that's a first), had a great time laughing, singing and drinking in various hostelries, and didn't even mind wallowing in the mud around the ham, why it wouldn't be Sidmouth without a bit of mud. I have no complaints whatsoever!!!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:21 AM

As I said in my first post, which the great know it all Richard Bridge [too far?] decided meant something other than what it stated.
I see I am proven right in my comment about posts being dissected and criticised. It happens in nearly every thread now, people don't say, 'it was rubbish' when they mean, 'I thought it was rubbish' Then someone with little or no thought as to what the poster meant, leaps in and contradicts them. Of course they too usually forget the personal pronoun.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:51 AM

ignore the word 'don't' in the second line of my post.
Thanks

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:12 AM

Your words - exactly "Perhaps they're scared to post, because whatever they do say will be picked on, disagreed with, and dissected, ad nauseam"

Followed my words (exactly) "And then of course there is Broadstairs".


Or is that too difficult for you?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:25 AM

Just because my original post followed one of yours, does not mean it was in response to it. It was in answer to the question posed by the originator of the thread.
It was a simple statement of the facts as I see them regarding the present state of things. All you did was to prove me right.
END OF.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 12:22 PM

Hi Jim M. - the above poem is saying that I do like such aspects of other cultures of other lands, but don't like the fact that the citizens of England are, more-and-more, preferring to perform (rather than just appreciate) them instead of their own good culture.

"come down some time and see for yourself"...thanks, Ruth - and may I do a gig, or at least a set, of WalkaboutsVerse plus E. trads, with English-flute/tenor-recorder intros, please?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM

No, John. Here is Zany Mouse's opening post: -

"Sidders 2009 is over and done with. The Cat has been really quiet for the last week but can we expect it to overflow now?

Come on, you lucky people, we want reports from Sidmouth"


No-one has made any picky response to any reports from Sidmouth - just to a bigmouth calling the place sour.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:07 PM

' "come down some time and see for yourself"...thanks, Ruth - and may I do a gig, or at least a set, of WalkaboutsVerse plus E. trads, with English-flute/tenor-recorder intros, please?'

There are lots of open mics and sessions round the town during folk week, WAV. I'm sure you could find an appropriate spot or two.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:14 PM

WAV - I am puzzled. Do you not appreciate that Sidders has probably the widest fringe of any festivals, and you will be welcomed - and live or die by your own hand?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:56 PM

Never mind WAV - There's always a gig for you at The 2009 Re-Imagined Village Folk Festival. This year we're going for the second weekend in October to be assured of good autumnal weather. Kicking off on the Thursday (8th) with a Come-All-Ye in The Siberian Khatru with a opening concert event on the Friday in the ballroom of The Remembering, guests TBA. On Saturday... er... actually, I think I'm on the wrong thread here! Sorry about that.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Jim Moray
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:09 PM

WAV - then we're in agreement! I enjoyed playing music that reflects all aspects of my culture - including John Kirkpatrick, Adam and the Ants, Glorystrokes, David Bowie, Bellowhead, The Watersons, DJ Shadow etc... And I enjoyed seeing the music from my own country such as the Dhol Foundation and Edward II. I'm glad that you agree with me that this is a good thing.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Jim Moray
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:10 PM

As a further note, its a shame that you couldn't be there for the Folk Against Fascism gig at the end of the week. You would have enjoyed it. I know I did.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:41 PM

Fascism is the opposite of democracy (which, all things considered, is the best way) and socialism - so, yes, we are both against it, Jim. (But there are different kinds of democracy and socialism, of course.)

And, as S. suggests for the RIV and Sidmouth does (going by the 50th, mentioned above, at least) it's probably a good thing to have a few folkies from other lands, perhaps even from as far as Siberia.

However, in my view, on your list are English citizens good at copying (rather than just appreciating) American pop/rock, and English citizens good at performing English music.

Also, curiosity killed the cat, but I've never heard you sing your strong selection of E. trads unaccompanied, Jim - do you ever nod to tradition in this way..?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:21 PM

WAV - I think you need to rethink your conclusions on what constitutes Our Own Good English Culture.

This may not be good exactly, but it's indisputably English, and our own for sure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0anJn7heS8

Gawd bless 'em!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:22 PM

How are the English citizens who make up the Dhol Foundation copying American pop/rock?

I should point out that Sidmouth is now under completely different management than it was during the 50th, so if you really want to understand what the festival is about now, the only way is to come to the festival.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:00 PM

Come on WAV-Jim is so much better informed and understanding of the process of traditions than you. Every name on his list is very carefully chosen to represent known English traditions, including Heavy Metal (the Midlands), drum'n'bass, and English pop, all pioneers and all quintessentially English. Rock is a form that has grown out of British tradition as well as American. Even American rock, which has its roots in blues and Appalachian folk music, has strong connections to our traditions.
And the disco was invented by Jimmy Saville, a venerable Englishman if ever there was one.
x e

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:42 AM

To S., R., and E.: Self-evidently, not all in Scotland are Scottish nationalists; but many HAVE successfully linked Scottish nationalism to Scottish folk - especially in this their "Home Coming Year"; we folkies in England should do similar - rather than "going pop" to be popular, in my opinion.

And, as for that opinion, "Come on WAV-Jim is so much better informed and understanding of the process of traditions than you"...I got distinctions for anthropology, Eliza C...?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Jim Moray
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

OK, my boredom threshold is setting in about now, but...

a) that's because you've never heard me at all I suspect, just as you've never been to Sidmouth. I do plenty of unaccompanied singing. Of the things in your poem, when was the last time you went out Morris dancing? Mine was yesterday.

b) It's linking English music to (a more sinister kind) of English Nationalism (with a large 'N') that we are trying to prevent with Folk against Fascism. My nationalistic pride (with a small 'n') is fuelled just as much by the Dhol foundation - I'm from the midlands and lived a lot of years in inner-city Birmingham - as Walter Bulwer polkas.

c) Which university did you get your anthropology degree from?

and finally...

z) you've got it wrong, and you've always been slightly wrong. Yours is not a "great way forward for humanity". Its a tepid version of what Nick Griffin believes in.

OK, bored now. Sorry everyone else...

But a fantastic week spent with old and new friends again, I've still not caught up on sleep. My highlights were singing Pleasant and Delightfu on Thurs night with a group whose ages spanned 60 years, the silent disco, Country Life at the FAF launch, the artistic directors mohito party, and Tom McConville's interview starting with the question "So, playing the fiddle... whats that all about??"

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM

1) As any anthropologist would tell you, Anthropology is the study of human culture, not the proscription of it. Human Culture is what people do, not what you think they ought to do.

2) English Revival Folk is NOT Our Own Good Culture - rather it is the hobbyist concern of a tiny minority of English Citizens & the professional concern of a yet tinier one. For the vast majority of the English People it is utterly meaningless. Here in Fleetwood (for example) we have one of the more celebrated of the English Folk Festivals and yet in talking to my neighbours (good English Citizens all with a firm grip on Their Own Good Culture) few of them had even heard of it, let alone had attended any of the events - even those living opposite the site of the former Rhyll Street Gym where my wife had her E. Trad. Epiphany (aged 12) when she saw Fred Jordan perform there. Please note, I am not bothered by this state of affairs in the slightest, being happy that here in Fleetwood we have real Traditional English Culture such as Fluffy Morris, Fun Fairs, Tram Sunday, Brass Bands, Rock Bands, Irish Bands, Drum & Bass crews, Karaoke, Night Clubs, Churches, Pimped Cars, Wayside Shrines, Hen Parties, Sand Castles, TV, Greasy Spoons, Chinese Takeaways, Indian Restaurants, Gurkha Buffet, Chip Shops, Psychic Nights, etc. etc. etc. Blackpool has just played host to The Rebellion Festival during which the place was awash with punks. Glorious!      

3) Scottish Nationalism is a very different things to English Nationalism. Whilst the former is concerned with liberation from the historical circumstance of Cultural & Imperial Tyranny, the latter is concerned with Fascism, Racism, and the perpetuation of Cultural & Imperial Tyranny. Of course this may be not how you see it yourself, WAV but there must come a point where you step off your little island and join us in the real world where such notions are defined by common consensus rather than personal fantasy.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:41 AM

The Year of Homecoming, is an appeal for expat Scots in particular, and all others with Scottish ties, to come and visit/revisit us, in this, the 250th anniversary of the birth of Robert Burns, our national bard.
Hardly surprising then, that folk music is included is it?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:46 AM

Only just recovered enough to report. An endurance-test. Raining, raining, always bloody well raining.

Indeed Sidmouth only really finished on Sunday evening when we finally managed to get to hear and see the Spooky Men's Chorale in Chiswick. Queued heroically outside the Methodist church, chatting to a very civilised yong couple. Heard them invisible and muffled in the rain under the tree at the Blackmore. The Chiswick performance was good. My brother came too, which wouldn't have happened at Sidmouth. Do they bias the set for venue? This was a comedy club and we didn't get the excellent Down In The River to Pray which we had at the Blackmore.

And the rain had stopped by then.


Otherwise - ritual visits to Bedford and Middle Bar where Breton Cap thinks I ought to be soloing.

Saw lots of people we know, including non-folkie ex-neighbours from twenty years ago and the other side of the country. Report of Surreysinger in bright clothing, and Mr Red seen in yellow.

Hotel Palindrone were lovely. Enjoyed watching the list-meister for E-Ceilidh eventually getting a partner to dance at the front.

Oysterband/Potts ceilidh was great dancing but far too crowded with flailing young things.

Climax/Lock musically fine, but we just couldn't get on with the many of dances called, also- backs suffering from the camping and perhaps the earlier ceilidh. Schottische was good. Nice Anchor Gardens stuff - Climax/Walden, the last one and especially whoever Phil Bassindale was calling for when the one set was littlies and their mothers in bright rainwear, and Phil was delightul looking after them.

We much enjoyed the Molly Dancing workshop by Ouse Washes, and lots of watching them and other Morris. Mrs enjoyed West Gallery, but the rain intervened later.

All very well to put the ticket portakabin by the dancers, but just how is one supposed to by a ticket or converse with the staff against the music?

Front impassable because of tat-vendors, again.

Discovered the Woodlands. Ballads, singarounds and perhaps best of all Taffy Thomas' story-telling workshop. And cakes.

Did not, of course, watch the Ceilidh not happening in the ford not being danced by a young couple we know. Nor have nectarines handed back from the ford by the police. Nor see the wizard in the wheelchair navigating it. Certainly not.

The camp-site. Oh, the camp-site. Drove on and off unaided both Friday evenings [low-range and diff-locks engaged], which was fine, but the bit in-between...

Conversations waking us at 0245 and 0530, different perpetrators at different times. We don't do lack of sleep....

On the credit side, knowing people camped near us and the general cameraderie.

The slope. Turn over in sleeping bag and slide down the tent. Drop an apple and it rolls away into the mud. Objects slide off table in tent. And that wasn't the worst spot we could have had.

Deep mud around the showers. Being right down beyond where the fence used to be, and the showers and loos that far....

Undoubtedly getting older, but finding camping just too much like hard work this year - and taking up far,far too much time. Didn't get to do nearly as much as we'd hoped; rain, mud, lack of sleep and general knackeredness.

Not at all sure what to do about next year.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:54 AM

Anyone been to a Curry-oke night?
Saw one advertised at a local pub recently, what genius!
Doesn't get much more English than that..

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:05 AM

I've only heard you on radio, Jim, always with some sort of synthesised accompaniment - I'm sure I'd much prefer your unaccompanied singing of E. trads, as you've probably gathered.

In case you haven't noticed, Nick Griffin is a BRITISH Nationalist and a monarchist - I'm a positive English nationalist and a republican, who hates imperialism.

I'm also an English repatriate, who majored in anthropology at Adelaide University, in Australia - with strong links to anthropology schools here in England.

"English Revival Folk is NOT Our Own Good Culture - rather it is the hobbyist concern of a tiny minority of English Citizens & the professional concern of a yet tinier one. For the vast majority of the English People it is utterly meaningless." (S)...that's a problem to be solved - in Scotland, too, yes, John?...but, as I say, the Scots are making a better effort than us in England, at the moment, I think.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Marje
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:35 AM

WAV, are you sure you're not confusing Jim Causley with Jim Moray? I've seen Jim C perform live on several occasions, singing either unaccompanied or accompanied on acoustic instruments, never with anything "synthesised". I also know that he has studied traditional music in an English university, and knows vastly more about it than you do.

If you did know anything about anthropology courses in England, you'd be aware that traditional music is not something that they study in any detail, if at all. To do that, you need to do a decidated traditional music course for 3 or 4 years, as Jim and many others have done. Your comments demonstrate that your studies haven't really given you any idea what it's all about.

And what on earth is an English nationalist? Are you in favour of England breaking away from the rest of the UK? You really haven't a clue how things work over here. One week at Sidmouth would teach you more about English habits and traditions than you've learnt in a lifetime. Until you can manage that, please give us a break from your pompous drivel and write about something you understand.

Marje

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,cardboard cutout
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:20 AM

No, Marje, WAV is not confusing Jims Moray and Causley, (although he must be confused about a number of other things)

It was Jim Moray contributing to this thread until he left in frustration. He does, indeed, sometimes perform with synthesised instruments, although of the 5 or 6 times I saw him perform at Sidmouth 2009, he did one such gig (at the Ham Marquee) and the rest of the time sang unaccompanied or with acoustic instruments.

Jim Mo is a morris dancer. Jim C is not, as far as I know

Jim Causley did Traditional Music degree at Newcastle, Jim Moray did Music Composition degree at Birmingham Conservatoire. Both of them, though, do know and understand vastly more than most, about traditional music, however

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:25 AM

How does Jim Causley come into it? (Though I'm sure he could do voice and/or instrument sampling if he wanted to, as Jim Moray has done in certain projects, such as his finals dissertation which became his first solo album). Each "Jim" has studied music at different English universities and it goes without saying that they both know vastly more about English music than WAV does. And what exactly do you mean by "synthesised music"? The use of a midi-controller for guitar effects? Are you saying that's not "folk music"? How very last century. I'm sure Jim M will correct me if I'm not paraphrasing him correctly, but he seems to me to be using what it takes to get the sound he wants that reflects where music is today, for today's ears. Isn't that what musicians have always done through the ages?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM

Crossposted with Cutout while Mudcat was temporarily on blink.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:46 AM

I'm glad that so many of JM's festival highlights correspond with my own - especially the mojito and sausage roll party. A new English tradition in the making.

I wish I'd been at the Big Spooky Thing instead of at a meeting...were any of you there? How was the invasion of the town?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Shaw Farmer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 09:26 AM

Sidmouth was a blast! Great concerts in the Ham and the Manor... Spiers and Boden, Faustus, Mawkin:Causley (all 3 concerts!) and Tom McConville were fantastic. Didn't see any of the fringe :-( but I did have a great time in the Bulverton.It did seem quiet on some nights,The Old Swan Band night especially.

Overall a really really good festival, well worth the money, and some quality acts.

s

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:16 AM

Well I see little has changed in my few months away from these threads. I'll take myself away again

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:22 AM

Just to confirm - Guests Eliza C. (arthy) and Jim Moray are almost certainly the very musicians we know from the folk scene (we had similar debates on myspace, a while back). I'm not sure if Jim Causley, who I know in person from his days in Newcastle, ever posts on mudcat..?

And, having read the other comments, I stand by what I said in verse and prose, above.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM

WAV
You got a degree in anthropology? What did you do with it?
e

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:45 AM

that's a problem to be solved

It's not a problem at all, WAV - it's just the way it is. What you think of as Our Own Good Culture (i.e. Revivalist Folk Music) is the reserve of an ever-dwindling number of hobbyists & enthusiasts whilst English Culture is alive and well in the hands of the English people, the majority of whom couldn't give a two hoots for Revival Folk Music. My kids hate it with a passion; and they're English through and through! Each to their own, WAV - enjoy it for what it is (much less what it isn't) but don't mistake it as being in anyway relevant to anyone outside of its precincts.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:47 AM

Anthro. was actually my major in a BA Degree in Humanities, Eliza; and I'd say that, to some extent, it comes into the human resources and supervision side of manufacturing management that I've worked in. And I think it's also helped my appreciation and understanding of my own culture - including English folk...here's a sample of the results.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:12 AM

While the argument is shambling along (pun intended, for veteran Catters)...

I am sorry I missed the Spookies, having left Sidmouth before Tuesday, but last night I enjoyed watching the "ravencam" video of the post-workshop town invasion on John Thompson's laptop. Glorious event, lucky those that were there. The face of one clueless motorist intent on making his way onto whatever destination was priceless, as was the final scene on the beach with hundreds gathered around the mum with her two kids (all three unperturbed and enjoying the experience). And I was most impressed with the quality of the communal singing of the "Visigoth march".

I think next time I will have to plump for the whole week.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:23 PM

WAV
Actually, that should have read-"then you should know better". And I've been, seen, and blocked your website as you know and don't want to get sucked in again, so I'm off. Pick on someone who actually does as you say, not someone who is known for practising the tradition you claim to love. I think you just like to pick fights.
e

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:31 PM

I'm glad to hear of, if not actually hear, some of the mash-ups offered up by Jim M discussed above. On one one level, it sounded like proper good fun! On another, a real intimate understanding and warm appreciation of the creative ferment of our real, ongoing and alive English musical culture.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:40 PM

"Plump for a week" Hee hee, nice one G

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

eliza says "I think you just like to pick fights,,,"

yep...and we all bloody fall for it...

baz

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:24 PM

"Report of Surreysinger in bright clothing" Eh?? Sorry Old Vermin, but whoever told you that was telling porkies, or had seen someone else. Navy blue, light blue, and dark purple, and combinations of thereof ... but not bright, unless you count the purple !!! (No sign of you at the Volly though, as far as I could tell)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:27 PM

Why is it that so many threads get poisoned by your moronice and xenophobic drivel WAV?

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:14 AM

Two people here, Baz and Stu, have just ignored the argument completely and, in their only posts, resorted to cheap-shots. And, Eliza, please click on my web-nickname, just above, check my overall involvement in mudcat, and get back to us on this: "I think you just like to pick fights."...I try to be reasonably positive and polite, but principled - and I genuinely didn't like reading Ruth saying that a "highlight" of an English folk festival was a "disco".

You, like me, Eliza, are against fascism, but you don't like anyone POLITELY disagreeing with you re. folk music?!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

Discos have been a feature at Sidmouth for many a long year (though none previously was quite like this one, by all accounts).
Furthermore, it has been said (though I can find no attribution thereto) that Spike Milligan coined the term and you cannot get much more "English" than that even if he was just a bit Irish.
Besides, discos are an integral part of the music scene nowadays, though admittedly only since the invention of electricity and recording technology.
You might as well say that any form of harmony has no place in English music because polyphony is the work of some foreign devil . . . oh, wait a minute, WAV does think that.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

WAV - could I draw your attention to the actual intent of this thread. To repeat Zany mouse's original post "Come on, you lucky people, we want reports from Sidmouth". From your own comments you weren't there.

As to Ruth's comments about the disco, as far as I understand it from those that attended this on event (amongst around 700) that I spoke to (one being one of the DJ's in question) it was hugely enjoyed by everyone ... and surely that's the point of the festival .. enjoyment. Most of the people who go to folk festivals have broad tastes in music - they don't perceive a divide. Good music. enjoyable music - it's all music. Probably best you don't go to Whitby either - you wouldn't have enjoyed the themed dance nights - Abba, Queen etc - either, or indeed the annual appearance of Shagpile.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:37 AM

and I genuinely didn't like reading Ruth saying that a "highlight" of an English folk festival was a "disco".

With anyone else I'd accept that as a matter of personal taste, but with you it's bound to be part of your somewhat absurd and idiosyncratic mythconception of what constitutes Our Own Good Culture. As for cheap shots - when you write (and publish) such drivel as English culture is taking a hammering and when people lose their culture society suffers how else are people to interpret that other than the product of xenophobia, if not outright racism? I believe the argument might go something like this:

WAV : I genuinely didn't like reading Ruth saying that a "highlight" of an English folk festival was a "disco".

Mudcat : Why?

WAV : Because English culture is taking a hammering and when people lose their culture society suffers.

*

Fact is WAV, Real Living English Popular Traditional Folk Culture is thriving. As an anthropologist you ought to be out there revelling in it instead of mistaking Revival Folk Music & Dance for Real Culture, which it most certainly, and most demonstrably, is not. You conceded you were mistaken with your reading of The Lord's Prayer; methinks it's maybe time you did the same regarding Our Own Good Culture.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:39 AM

WAV - you pronounce pompously and pontificate on many matters. This is OK until you attempt to impose your irrational views on your adopted country.
England is not as you see it (and hopefully never will be). English folk music did not cease to develop sometime in the eighteenth century; it continues and thrives in many forms. Feel free not to like it, but don't assume that your dislike is going to be accepted by the folk community as having any validity.
Knowing Sidmouth from the BBC is a bit like knowing Australia from Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.
You have 'studied' English folk music for about five years. Eliza, Jim, and most of Mudcat's posters have lived it for many times that - some of us before you were born.
Periodically when reading threads I come across your posts. Mostly I try to ignore them until I feel the need to voice an opinion myself.
Nothing anyone says to you on these threads sinks in - you continue with your bizarre pro English stance that no one shares.

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:02 AM

Sean - I love mythconception!

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:30 AM

"polyphony is the work of some foreign devil . . . oh, wait a minute, WAV does think that." (TBE)...on the contrary, I quite enjoy a bit of polyphony - in its place...

Poem 48 of 230: THE PROMS

We walked through Kensington Gardens,
    Then made a left for Albert Hall.
Promenaders were in their tens,
    While others had found their stall,
As we took our pre-booked seats,
    In a row of restricted view -
Three-quarters of the orchestra.
    But the music sure bettered par:
The beautiful sounds of Mozart;
    The daring drama of Ravel.
And we liked it - me and a belle.

From http://walkaboutsverse.741.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
(C) David Franks 2003

Yes, Surreysinger, I wouldn't like hearing "Abba, Queen, etc." at Whitby.

"xenophobia" (S) is a fear of strangers - it's me, not you, who has enjoyed travelling through about 40 countries on a shoe-string.

"irrational views on your adopted country" (Stu)...that IS irrational - I was born here the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:36 AM

D'you know? I was feeling pretty depressed until I read this thread. Many thanks to WAV for his comments and interesting take on Englishness – WAV, I laughed and laughed and laughed.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:52 AM

Zenophobia - A Morbid fear of Buddhists - 'The Dyslexic Alphabet' - M.Austen

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:07 AM

"D'you know? I was feeling pretty depressed until I read this thread. Many thanks to WAV for his comments and interesting take on Englishness – WAV, I laughed and laughed and laughed." (PD)...I repeat...

"come down some time and see for yourself"...thanks, Ruth - and may I do a gig, or at least a set, of WalkaboutsVerse plus E. trads, with English-flute/tenor-recorder intros, please? (above)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:11 AM

You were answered WaV, earlier down the thread. Loads of sessions and open mics for any amateur wishing to perform, to choose from. You just show up and join in.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:11 AM

Born in England, 'educated' and 'grew up' in Australia. Fled your adopted country but retained your passport/citizenship?

Learned about English Folk music in four or five years. Speaks/sings Australian.

in the year of your birth many immigrants had children. Are they English? Or should they be sent elsewhere where they can enjoy music from their own culture?

Enjoying travel is a good way of spending time. Says nothing for your attitudes. What did you learn?

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:28 AM

Sean - I love mythconception!

Not mine, alas, Stu! I nabbed it from a old myth-demolishing feature in Fortean Times...

"xenophobia" (S) is a fear of strangers - it's me, not you, who has enjoyed travelling through about 40 countries on a shoe-string.

You're avoiding the point as usual. Besides which, you've come to a total standstill now - in your thinking, writing, learning, and travelling. Time you got out again - go Walkabout, WAV - see the world afresh!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:32 AM

""come down some time and see for yourself"...thanks, Ruth - and may I do a gig, or at least a set, of WalkaboutsVerse plus E. trads, with English-flute/tenor-recorder intros, please?"

As Crow Sister says, WAV, and I said earlier, there are lots of open mics and sessions. Fill yer boots. If you are actually asking me (publicly, twice) for a programmed slot, I'm afraid I will have to (publicly) reply that your work is simply not of a high enough standard to be considered, but thank you for your interest.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:09 AM

I wish I hadn't started this thread now!

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM

"If you are actually asking me (publicly, twice) for a programmed slot, I'm afraid I will have to (publicly) reply that your work is simply not of a high enough standard to be considered, but thank you for your interest." (Ruth Archer)...but, if I put in about an hour a day, I get as much or more interest on the web than many who have been given such slots - check around myspace, e.g. One thing we can agree on is that repatriation is the opposite of immigration - yes, Ruth (for whom a "disco" was a "highlight" of an English folk festival)?

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:17 AM

Have you ever had a paid booking WAV?

If so have you ever been rebooked?


in curiosity

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:26 AM

An hour a day of cut and paste
I have to say of time a waste
Fill the forum fill the blog
'til the www becomes a-clog
Find someone to irritate
with verse or prosy prate
tell us of your foreign degree
Oh no - I'm English see.


In sincere imitation

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:28 AM

if I put in about an hour a day, I get as much or more interest on the web than many who have been given such slots - check around myspace, e.g.

Myspace is mainly mutual sycophancy, WAV - people only say nice things about you if / so you'll say nice things about them. The more you do, the more praise you'll get. An hour a day though? That's - er - 365 hours a year - which is - er - two fecking weeks a year, WAV! Just to have smoke blown up your ass? Not good - not good at all. That said, I have had a few good deals out of myspace & it serves as a handy on-line CV for other non-myspace types to tune into if they're interested...

One thing we can agree on is that repatriation is the opposite of immigration

I've been giving you the benefit of a lot of doubt recently, WAV but statements like that make me wonder where your head is at.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:29 AM

Seeing that this thread is clearly no longer about Sidmouth, can anyone suggest an objective means of ranking posters by tendentiousness?

If computers can calculate a fog index for a text, would it be possible to similarly parse, say, for disproportionate use of block capitals, question and exclamation marks, the words 'English', 'you' and 'I'.

Other suggestions welcome.

Sorry to have missed you at the Volly, SurreySinger - just didn't manage to get there.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:40 AM

Everything I've done thus far, Stu, has been as an amateur.

S: you've just contradicted yourself, yet again; and, if the mods hadn't stopped you, no doubt we would have had to cope with another hand-full of name changes, as well, by now.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:52 AM

S: you've just contradicted yourself, yet again

How? When? Where? Who? What? Why?

and, if the mods hadn't stopped you, no doubt we would have had to cope with another hand-full of name changes, as well, by now.

Petty stuff, WAV! But in the common law a man may go by whatever name he so chooses; this one is my preferred folk handle - going back some 20 years but first appearing in print in the letters page of the Jan / Feb 1991 Folk Roots double issue #91/92. Yup, I was bitching on about the same stuff then as I do now; plus ca change! But at least I got a sentence in mentioning both Sun Ra and Jim Eldon. Smart stuff I'd say. Twenty years on they're both still dear to my loving heart, so again I say plus ca change!

S O'P

PS - And that should be handful...

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:57 AM

Jim Moray

Don't waste time on trolls who probably haven't seen you and don't intened to. For me your reputation preceeded you and what I heard on Radio4 was more than enough to confirm the reputation. I don't do concerts so I know Cheltenham Town Hall Barn Dance will be everything I expect. I get my tickets tomorrow!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:11 AM

"but, if I put in about an hour a day, I get as much or more interest on the web than many who have been given such slots"

Morbid curiosity, perhaps? I have listened to your efforts on your Myspace, WAV. Your "playing" is barely up to grade 1 standard and has no phrasing at all. Your singing is frequently out of tune. You tend to play and sing in different keys. Your whole approach is amateurish and distinctly odd. Normally I wouldn't make such a public judgement if an artist is genuinely asking me for a slot, but as you insist on pressing the point on a public forum, these are the reasons I will not be booking you. I'm sorry.

Yes, the Silent Disco was one of the highlights of the festival for me. Again, I apologise if this offends your sensibilities. As you were not at the event, how do you lknow how much of the music played at the disco was actually folk? A lot of it was. Of course, a lot of it wasn't. But it was a great event - not one you would appreciate, I grant, but as you were not there, and are unlikely to attend in future, I won't lose too much sleep over that. Sidmouth is not an "English" folk festival by your definition (thank god). It has always contained a broad and healthy international element. This year, it included a breadth of artists like Edward II, the Dhol Foundation, the London Bulgarian Choir, Tanec Bulgarian Dancers, the Destroyers...all British artists, but presenting music and dance with roots in Bulgaria, Hungary, the Caribbean and the Punjab. And then of course there were the actual international artists: Genticorum, Riccardo Tesi, Hotel Palindrone, the Spooky Men...

Not your vision of an English folk festival at all I'm afraid, WAV. Sidmouth doesn't have a border patrol.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:18 AM

Ruth, I rather suspect that there can be _no_ English folk festival that meets WAV's rather peculiar standards and definitions . After all, Whitby, which is more traditionally based than Sidmouth in it's outlook, has already been found lacking in view of it's one fun ceilidh of the week (heaven knows what he'd think of Mr Burland and Shagpile, as I think I said). I'm pretty sure that the now sadly defunct Traditions Festival would not have come up to scratch either - good old Sid Calderbank and his Lancashire parlour concert wouldn't have met his criteria at all! (I do wonder if John Heydon's lamented National would even have hacked it).

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 11:00 AM

I have listened to WAV on MySpace too.

Ruth, it's what people call "Interesting" when they are being polite.

As Surreysinger points out one of the highlights of the week at Whitby is always the Shagpile "Bop Till You Drop" session.

And if you want to hear what Shagpile sound like (after all by definition you can't hear the Silent Disco!) By all means listen to "Thank Goodness It's Folk" on SheffieldLive.org 10.00 am Friday. Not sure whether to play "High School Confidential" or "Money Honey"!!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: PaulF
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 11:55 AM

Is it true there was a hostile takeover bid at Sidmouth this year?
Paul

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 12:08 PM

so, in conclusion. The general verdict on Sidmouth 2009 on this thread is that ... all the people who weren't there didn't like it, and all the people who were there did like it ... except no-one liked the rain and resulting mud.
let's move on...
Derek

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 12:16 PM

To Surreysinger, re. the "ceilidh": my late godmother told me that she did learn one or two Scottish county dances at school in England, but at least 90% was English country dance; and, when I mentioned ceilidh, I swear to God she'd never heard of it. Please, please let the Scots have their ceilidhs, and the Irish their ceilis - in England should be held English country dances.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 12:39 PM

How can you deny your flagrant xenophobia and then come out with such rubbish.

Spend more effort on assimilating the culture of our good country and less on the nightmare scenario of your dreams and everyone else's nightmares

Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 12:52 PM

Reality is brought about through lack of alcohol.

100

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 01:34 PM

WAV - I too went to "English Country Dancing" lessons when at primary school (and learned Scottish country dancing at my Surrey grammar school - hated it!). But that was in the late 1950's - half a century ago - when the term ceilidh wasn't in use on the English scene. It's hardly surprising that your late godmother wouldn't have heard the term - it didn't exist then!! It's a term which has been used in more recent times to refer to particular types of English dances.By suggesting that the term "English country dance" should be used you are yet again displaying your lack of knowledge of the traditonal music and dance scene. If you care to peruse the Wikipedia entry for ceilidhs, and specifically the section on English ceilidhs, you will find more detail regarding the nature of e-ceilidhs.

The following extract gives some details regarding the type of music "At English ceilidh events you'll find bands making the most of the English tradition (Old Swan Band for example) but also many bands picking up strong influences from other forms of music, for example ska for Whapweasel, French traditional for Token Women, Welsh traditional for Twm Twp, Jazz for Chalktown, Funk Fusion for Ceilidhography, Rock for Peeping Tom, Aardvark Ceilidh Band and Tickled Pink, West African and Indian for Boka Halat and self-penned material for Climax Ceilidh Band."

The tradition - either song,music or dance - moves on ... things are not "set in aspic" ...

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:16 PM

"Ceilidh" was a term in use at Cecil # House from the very early 1960s to my knowledge, if not sooner. It referred to a dance event with some form of alternative interval spot, usually song or Morris and was thus closer in meaning to the original Scottish visiting custom. During the 70s and 80s, dance at the House became progressively insular, exclusive and slow until a "Committee" of disgruntled dancers and players staged a revolution, a sort of ceilidh revival wherein the emphasis was clearly on stepping rather than on complex moves. The "kneesup" origin of eceilidh was born. This newish tradition is prevalent at Sidmouth LNEs, at Towersey and at certain largely southern England venues at which enthusiasts muster from near and far.

The last time I was at Sidmouth, eceilidh, country dancing, D4D, contra and Playford all co-existed at different venues and probably still do.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:31 PM

BUT, Surreysinger, this modern English trend goes far beyond replacing "English country dance" with "ceilidh," or an English football manager with an Italian, of course. And I'm not, of course, alone in feeling the urge to speak/sing out, despite the flak. Without naming names/quoting, well-known pro folkies have recently stated how we may never know how much we English have lost, and how we don't seem to know who we are any more, etc.

Our past imperialism WAS wrong, but that doesn't mean we should keep shooting ourselves, culturally, in the foot.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:16 PM

When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.

Apply this test WAV and you are no Englishman


Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Jim Moray
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:16 PM

No WAV - name names. Which well known, pro-folkie has said those things? That "we may never know how much we English have lost, and how we don't seem to know who we are any more, etc."

I can assure you that nobody I know would say those things, much less mean the things you are implying here.

These are words straight out of a BNP leaflet. This kind of language is very very dangerous, and you have to be clear about your meaning.

Of course, this is a circular argument and we are all tired of it, but it's more important than ever that this kind of thing doesn't go unchallenged.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:31 PM

Oh, WAV's just (mis)quoting from Roots, a lyric with which I cannot wholly concur because of its ambiguity which led, inevitably, to misappropriation. I found this transcription
http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/show_of_hands/roots-lyrics-1259096.html , worthy of an entire chapter of its own in The Book Of Mondegreens.

I do know what Steve Knightley was trying to say, but this does illustrate the crucial importance of being absolutely clear.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:45 PM

Sometimes I think you wind us up for fun WAV. Most times I fear you don't.

You're not the only thread-wrecker on Mudcat, but you're the most consistent.


Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:57 PM

...and, it would be a lot better if the BBC showed the whole documentary again, but "English don't know who they are; most English people are unaware that they have given up their identity, and were sold an idea of Britain" ("Martin Carthy: English Roots" documentary).

And, as I answered you above Jim M., I, too, am a positive English (NOT British) nationalist.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: richd
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:40 PM

There are but two steps to Fascism. Nationalism then apartheid. I like to think that I am amongst people who oppose all three, speaking as a Welshman!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:00 PM

Anyone willing to spend their hard earned to see WAV?

Anyone ever booked him? Come on Dave, tell us what bookings you have done and how often you have been invited back.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:12 PM

My Granny used to say"Don't mock the afflicted".

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:49 PM

Derek Schofield got it so right.

You weren't there WAV, so why the hell are you pontificating??

Oh yes - I realise now, you expect me to appreciate you. Believe me, I don't.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:13 PM

Having visited and listened to WAV's efforts on Myspace, the phrase "delusions of adequacy" springs to mind.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:17 AM

I think WAV is a perfectly respectable singer of E. Trads, his Aussie brogue bringing out some interesting & often endearing qualities, as in his cover of Cob a Coaling which takes on a quite poignant elegance in WAV's hands. He's certainly more than adequate as a floor singer and his self-composed chants are quite unlike anything else you're likely to hear in a singaround. He is a charming and appreciative participant; a thoroughly good-egg as I'm sure anyone here who has actually met him will agree. My main complaint (the on-line persona notwithstanding) is that his policy is to sing a WAV-chant first, and an E. Trad second. I think perhaps he ought to reverse this, as it might be expecting a lot of any audience (even in most tolerant of singarounds) to travel from Lands End to John O'Groats on a first acquaintance. Also - I really think he should put that voice to better use and explore the Australian legacy of the English Folk Song tradition, which is vast and wonderful.

I did not get into Folk to listen to professionals; I came in via the back door with field-recordings, floor-singers and singarounds. Over the years I've heard a lot worse than WAV (even on field-recordings) which is hardly the point as Folk Music is suggestive of an inclusiveness that might engender a certain notion of sanctuary to those who might not otherwise have any other place to sing.

For that reason alone - Come-All-Ye - WAV included!

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: s&r
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:34 AM

Never heard him live Sean, so that qualifies my opinion about as much as listening to the radio gives one a valid opinion on Sidmouth.

However, intrigued by yur comments and respecting your judgment I listened to some of WAV's tracks.

IMO and as available on his site: the voice quality is not in itself unpleasant, nor is his native accent.

His reciting is hypnotic and expressionless, it is however well articulated and easy to hear.

"When I survey": the voice is flat on at least half the notes, and this is more evident when accompanied with the keyboard.

At that I lost the will to live, however I believe that with some vocal coaching a massive improvement would be possible. Finding a good coach is the secret, but there must be competent tutors in the NE folk world who would give a couple of freebies.

Sadly in listening to WAV's tracks I have increased his listening figures hence upped his own approval rating...


Stu

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:23 AM

To Richd: "as a Welshman!" within our United Nations, you, culturally, show me yours and I, as an Englishman within our United Nations, will show you mine - yes, perhaps after more play-a-line/sing-a-line intonation training.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:50 AM

Derek Schofield was, as ever, so correct without giving offence to anyone. A diplomat worthy of his role within EFDSS.
I intend to move on - and Towersey is looming, but first the White Horse FF (see my festival list) and Stomp.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:17 AM

Sadly in listening to WAV's tracks I have increased his listening figures hence upped his own approval rating...

As I say, Stu, in the contexts of singarounds & such like I have frequently put up with a lot worse than WAV, thus must I view the idiosyncrasies of his musicality within the wider parameters of untutored / outsider Folk Singing so much of which carries it's own naive charm - such as the singing of Sydney Carter which I heard for the first time only recently. The same might be said of a lot of so-called source singers whose musicality is often seen as secondary to the songs they sing & the social contexts within which they sang it - not by me though; give me a field-recorded traditional singer to studio recorded revivalist any day!

WAV's Hymns I'm not sold on in the slightest, but then again I only listen to hymns in the context of Holy Mass where they belong. When I Survey the Wondrous Cross is a particular favourite of mine, something to be sung on Good Friday during the Veneration where the power of the words might move even a cynical old atheistic heart like my own. Yeah, even as a cynical old atheist I find WAVs adoption of this hymn as part of his relentless scheme of self-promotional glory disrespectful and sacrilegious in the extreme - and excruciatingly non-musical to boot.

My advice to WAV has always been to explore the cultural intricacies of English Traditional Song that mirror the migrations of his own life - i.e. the richness of English Folk Song one finds in The Australian Tradition. However, as in most things in life, WAV has decided that having learned 17 E.Trads he will not trouble himself to learn any more, thus arresting himself somewhat prematurely in the understanding of a subject he nevertheless feels himself qualified to pontificate upon. He has barely dipped his toe in the waters of this vast and wondrous ocean; WAV is a child with a plastic boat advising seasoned shellbacks on their seamanship.

So - WAV's all right for a singaround, as I say, which on one level must operate as a sanctuary for those who feel the need to sing (for whatever reason) but who wouldn't otherwise get a chance. That said, I'd still give him a 15-minute slot in the re-Imagined Village Folk Festival Open Mic Tent (2 E. Trads, 1 Walkabout; AND NO F*CKING HYMNS) and I'm sure if he ever came to Fylde he'd give our Ron a run for his money in The Worst Singer in the World competition...

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:47 AM

If it's of any comfort, S., I try to remember to have my hymn atop my myspace player on weekends only. And it's true that I've put a limit on my repertoire of 50-60 songs/tunes - frankly, it is a struggle to keep that many in my memory/get through them all once per week.

Mr Red - the founders of what became the EFDSS were more-or-less positive English nationalists, also - concerned with maintaining aspects of our own cultural heritage; and I doubt if they would have liked discos and American pop/rock at English folk festivals, either.

Around the same time as the just-abovementioned BBC documentary, Tony Blair, born in Scotland, said: "We don't want a return of English nationalism". Oh yes we do, in my opinion - WITHOUT imperialism this time.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:25 AM

frankly, it is a struggle to keep that many in my memory/get through them all once per week.

To me, Folk Singing has always been a process of exploration and constant learning leading to exciting new discoveries and unexpected experiences - and as such it never ends. One should always be developing new material, even if it means forgetting some of the old stuff along the way. It is the Traddy Way that when one has forgotten more songs than one currently has in one's repertoire that you might have made a start!

I say this by way of encouragement, WAV. You are Walkaboutsverse, for goodness sake get out and Walk.

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: dj bass
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM

I was at Sidmouth. I loved it, again. The Silent Disco was on my list of highlights too, so I understand how it could be on Ruth's or anyone else's. I could not physically fit in all the things I would have liked to attend, truly we were spoilt for choice.

I have heard Jim Moray sing unaccomapnied and play without PA in Totnes folk club in Feb 2009 - it was a fabulous evening - I've also seen him dancing out with Bristol Morris.

Finally, starting an argument with Eliza Carthy and Jim Moray about English traditional music: that's not normal behaviour is it? I mean, you wouldn't explain the offside rule to a pair of professional footballers...

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:21 PM

Not bad so far! Not been well this week, so not posted as I promised.

A touch of Thread Creep here I think? A suggestion would be to TOTALLY ignore any comments by WAV and continue with the evaluation of Sidmouth 2009 as it was intended to be :-)

Keep going Folkies :-)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:27 PM

Joe. I started this thread thinking it would provoke lots of stories from Sidders. Sadly it seems the threa has "gone to the bad"

Can you simply close it please?

Blessings
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:35 PM

The only problem I see with that Rhiannon is that the people who wish to disrupt a thread will get what they want. WAV and others continually do this to get noticed. Would that Joe could delete the thread creep rather than close what is essentially a good thread.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:59 PM

I was expecting to read of some the experiences of some of those who were able to attend Sidmouth Folk Week (unfortunately I wasn't), instead I see yet again, a few, who would disrupt any or all of the many music threads, with their views on "English nationalism", which, personally, I have absolutely no interest in. I want to know about this years Sidmouth Folk Week and that's the topic of this thread, is it not?

Stand and Be Counted!

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:06 PM

Isn't this here the same thing?

Sal

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:48 PM

Yes,Sal, it is - but my thread was first! lol

Blessings
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 09:46 PM

Although sadly Rhiannon, I think that the other thread's title gave a bit more of a clue to what the intent of the thread was about, so I doubt that Kev would have realised that there was any duplication... although in fact I don't really think there is - he actually asks for an evaluation of the event, rather than reports (slight difference, I realise, but a difference nevertheless) :-)

Subject: RE: Expecting Sidders folk to flood the Cat?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:02 AM

I notice that my post back there on 12 Aug at 09:28 AM was my 3000th! This is my 3020th. Sorry for disrupting your precious thread to impart this irrelevance but my wife is working a weekend shift and all plans for a wander have been scuppered by the rain; my right hand is aching with Black Sea Fiddle RSI and I have an important rehearsal at 5.30pm. On the plus side, I am optimistic that the postman will be delivering the copy of Bob Pegg's still-controversial book Folk I bought off Ebay earlier in the week (when he gets here) and my wife has just rang to say she's coming for dinner with sarnies from Subway. Do we have a Subway in the re-Imagined Village? Hold on - wrong thread, but do feel free to pop over and tell us about your lovely week in Sidmouth! Maybe next year I might join you...