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Tech: Changing Key!

GUEST,Jacqued 09 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM
Paul Burke 09 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM
Stringsinger 09 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM
BanjoTom2 09 Aug 09 - 03:12 PM
GUEST,Jacqued 09 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM
s&r 09 Aug 09 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Aug 09 - 10:04 PM
semi-submersible 10 Aug 09 - 01:28 AM
SteveMansfield 10 Aug 09 - 02:50 AM
Jack Campin 10 Aug 09 - 07:54 AM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Aug 09 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,Jacqued 10 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM
Tootler 10 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM
Tattie Bogle 10 Aug 09 - 07:57 PM
M.Ted 10 Aug 09 - 09:15 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM
GUEST,Jacqued 11 Aug 09 - 02:25 PM
s&r 11 Aug 09 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,Jacqued 12 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM
s&r 12 Aug 09 - 03:10 PM
Jack Campin 12 Aug 09 - 03:23 PM
M.Ted 13 Aug 09 - 02:28 AM
s&r 13 Aug 09 - 03:55 AM
Simon G 13 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM
M.Ted 13 Aug 09 - 02:12 PM
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Subject: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Greetings!   Wife sings in a group (Classical Pop Singers - for charity) and is sometimes given tunes that are out of her key range!   Can anyone please suggest a programme that will permit me to, as she says, put the key up or down a touch!

Could get me a whole lot of smartie points!

Many thanks,

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

Most of the music writing packages like Noteworthy make this quite easy- though they cost (Noteworthy isn't dreadfully expensive).

There's a learning curve to get through to key the music in though.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM

Sibelius. It transposes to any key. If you have a scanner, you can scan music into Sibelius
as a MIDI file and transpose it easily.

Most notational software programs will do that for you


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: BanjoTom2
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:12 PM

"Chordie.com" has many lyrics WITH chords. The really cool thing is that the songs can be transposed to NEW keys by pushing a button!

It refers to the transpositions in terms of steps and half steps, either up or down and shows you the name of the KEY as you move through them up and/or down.

Hope this Helps

BanjoTom2

http://www.banjotom2.com


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM

And I thought living with the missus was easy.   Many thanks, I'll do me best.   I have Noteworthy but just use it to write whistle music - another senior moment, even!

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: s&r
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 07:13 PM

Don't forget that if she's singing in a group they all have to sing in the same key. Making it easy for her might make it hard for the rest. Writing a harmony part is the way to go I would think.

That's a different kettle of fish

Stu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 10:04 PM

Hello, Jacqued. I sometimes lead music in church, and I often need to make songs lower. I use Noteworthy to I transpose them all the time.

Here's how:

1. Enter or download the notation in Noteworthy. Save it.

2. Make sure the key signature is in place. If it's C, insert that. (type K,C, enter)

3. Type alt, T, T. (opens the transpose box on the tools menu) Tell it how many half-steps to change it. To go from G to E, let us say, tell it -3. Uncheck the box that says to make it sound the same. (That box is for trumpets and French horns, I think.)

Press enter.

Save.

If I've skipped a detail and this doesn't work, let me know.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: semi-submersible
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 01:28 AM

If a transposed tune doesn't sound as pleasant as before, sometimes it can be worth trying out another key. My Dad suggested to me years ago, and my ear agreed, that G or A-flat for example sound nicer than most major keys. So sometimes I would move a tune farther than I had to, to get to a key I preferred.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:50 AM

Noteworthy

2. Make sure the key signature is in place. If it's C, insert that. (type K,C, enter)


Ah, so that explains why transposing from C to another key in Noteworthy goes pear-shaped.

Thanks for that - seems a bit counter-intuitive (having to insert a blank key signature field), but I guess it can't update the field unless there's a field there to update ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:54 AM

You can also do this in ABC - BarFly has ABC transposition built-in, and you can do it in some of the web-based ABC processors. Look at the ABC homepage for more.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:45 AM

'it can't update the field unless there's a field there to update ...'

Yes, sfmans, computers are peculiar that way. They don't understand the human conviction that if it says nothing, it means C.

Here's another thing - sometimes well-meaning people produce MIDI's for the net and they fail to put in the time signature. When an innocent passerby downloads the tune, he may get a MIDI bristling with sharp or flat signs which make the tune seem unnecessarily complicated.

To fix that, study the accidentals and see what the key should have been. Insert the key. Then 'audit accidentals' (alt, t, c) and the unnecessary signs will go away.

One of my pet peeves is people who upload a tune in F without inserting the key signature. For some reason this produces a MIDI with A#'s rather than B-flats, and they all have to be fixed by hand. Anybody know a way around that?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM

Many thanks for all the advice, allbeit some (much?) is way above my head! Number One Son has heard about my request and says the grandchildren will buy me NeroBurn for my birthday (Sept)stating that should do the trick.

Gratefully, Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM

One of my pet peeves is people who upload a tune in F without inserting the key signature. For some reason this produces a MIDI with A#'s rather than B-flats, and they all have to be fixed by hand. Anybody know a way around that?

Insert your key signature then:

Tools > Force Accidentals (makes sure all the accidentals are visible)
Tools > Audit Enharmonic Spellings (should reset all your A#'s to Bb's)
Tools > Audit Accidentals (Suppresses the flat sign for the Bb's but will leave genuine accidentals visible)

The only snag with this is that Noteworthy does not know how to distinguish between a major key and its relative minor so sharpened leading notes are often displayed wrongly. For example, in Dm, the sharpened leading note should be shown as C#, but because the key signature is a flat, Noteworthy will display it as Db. The way round this is to export your tune as Noteworthy text, open it in a text editor and search and replace to change Db to C#, then re-import the edited Noteworthy text. This only works in nwc2 and not in nwc1.75 as Noteworthy text is a new feature in v2

This is not usually a problem in Folk music as "minor key" tunes tend to be modal and have a flat 7th but is an issue in Classical music.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:57 PM

I use Finale Notepad: very easy to transpose with it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:15 PM

Stupid question, perhaps, when you say she is "given" tunes, who is giving them to her? If the director of the group is handing her music that she feels is out of her range, she can't just change the key to suit herself--it is the director who picks the key--

If the director chooses to change the key, it is a simple matter to simply start on a higher or lower pitch--the written music stays the same when you are singing (though the accompanist may have to do a bit of juggling)--


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM

Tootler, thanks very much! I had no idea what 'audit enharmonic spellings' meant.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:25 PM

M.Ted.   Wife is "offered" a song to sing with the group and she then trots off and learns it - before "offering" it back again to see if it is suitable to include in a programme.
But the original music (not sheet music) sometimes does not suit her range. Hence my problem!

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: s&r
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:59 PM

How is she offered it? ByCD/tape, or words/chords, or someone singing it to her? How does she know it's not in her range?

Stu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

Stu.,

CD. She says when she starts screeching, it's out of her range!

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: s&r
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:10 PM

There are many pitch changer programs, some available for free download; just put pitch changer into Google. Don't know how well they work from personal experience. Other mudcatters may.

Karaoke players include pitch change as an option. These work well in my experience



Stu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:23 PM

Usually a published setting for a choir will be in a key well chosen for the average voice.

If Wife drastically changes that to suit herself, chances are the choir won't be able to sing it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 02:28 AM

I am still not sure what's going on--surely, if she's learned the song, she can change the pitch herself--and I am not sure how the "original music" would not be sheet music.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: s&r
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:55 AM

She's given the song on CD. I guess she sings along with it until she knows it; if it's recorded in a pitch that's too high for her she "screeches" when she sings along, which makes it hard to learn, and not muchfun.

I think I got that right Ed and pitch changing would work. When she takes it back to the choir, if she is used to singing with them. the key she's learned it in will likely be comfortable for the choir

Stu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: Simon G
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM

Try Audacity

Audacity Web Site

Load the track with File->Import->Audio, select it all and apply Effects from the menu. Change Pitch will do exactly that and Change Tempo will speed up or slow down the song without changing the pitch.

To save as an MP3 you will need LAME, see Audacity web site for details.

If you don't already have the facility of recording CD tracks to your computer then for Windows try CD Rider

CD Rider web site


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Subject: RE: Tech: Changing Key!
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 02:12 PM

Sorry, I missed the post where the CD business was explained. For performance purposes, there are a lot of ways to deal with out of range notes, from changing the octave to simply moving the pitch to a more comfortable note in the same chord. Many times, out of range notes are not even in the original song, but they're added to the arrangement to provide interest--

For the purpose of memorizing a melody, I must say that it is rare indeed to find a pop or folk recording that a reasonable singer can't at least follow--

Furthermore, if the singer is only learning from recordings, it doesn't seem like any kind of notational solutions are going to be relevant.


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