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Melodeon notes/chord left hand?

Mr Red 10 Aug 09 - 08:36 AM
manitas_at_work 10 Aug 09 - 08:41 AM
treewind 10 Aug 09 - 09:02 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 10 Aug 09 - 10:59 AM
melodeonboy 10 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Aug 09 - 03:58 PM
melodeonboy 10 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM
Tootler 10 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM
treewind 10 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM
s&r 11 Aug 09 - 04:23 AM
Marje 11 Aug 09 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 12 Aug 09 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 12 Aug 09 - 09:23 AM
Old Vermin 12 Aug 09 - 09:33 AM
GUEST,Dazbo at work 12 Aug 09 - 09:39 AM
treewind 12 Aug 09 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 12 Aug 09 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 13 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM
melodeonboy 15 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM
Howard Jones 15 Aug 09 - 02:30 PM
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Subject: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:36 AM

OK right hand for the D row on a DG I can find but what notes sound on the left hand on each key. I have done a search and can only find Hobgoblin as a (un)help (eg D/G & C#/D), but the plusses mean nothing and I am not sure which notes constitute the chords on each button anyway.

If I can nail the (say) D only, the rest should follow as a natural transposition - or am I deluding myself?

I don't read the dots but understand the mathematics, all I need is each note per button in one key.

I want to investigate an idea I have and need to see if it is feasable. Before I learn (if ever).

Any ideas? Websites that explain?


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:41 AM

Try http://info.melodeon.net/


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: treewind
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:02 AM

On the hobgoblin diagram, the chords the + and - signs to the left (on the diagram) of the bass notes they go with. + is major chord, - is minor chord.

So along the top of diagram,
(+) (D) (+) (G) = Push: D maj D bass G maj G bass
(+) (A) (+) (D) = Pull: A Maj A bass D maj G bass

To play in D, all you really need to know is to use the D/A pair - that's the top left two buttons in hobgoblin's picture. When you find a chord that doesn't fit the notes you are playing, try the E/B pair - in particular the E and E minor on Pull and use that if it sounds "right" - or at least better.

To get more sophisticated chords while playing in D, you need to go across to the G row on the RH. Don't bother with that to begin with - you'll only get confused.

Basic vamp pattern: Bass button on the beat, chord button off the beat.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:59 AM

I will digest this info later.
Meanwhile - many thanks - & I found this

I always assumed the left hand was (basically) mirroring the two right hand rows, ie one for D and one for G (until you get clever that is).


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM

On a related matter, the B bass chord button on my Delicia is tuned to Bm (which seems logical on a D/G melodeon), but when I've played Hohners, the button seems to be tuned to B major! Surely Bm makes more sense!

Comments, anyone?


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 03:58 PM

Have another beer


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM

Would that be a minor or a major beer?


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM

I did a fingering chart for a D/G melodeon when I first got one. You can find it here

I have a Hohner Pokerwork and you are right, melodeonboy, it struck me as odd that the B chord is major not minor.

I never really got the knack of co-ordinating the left and right hands, and I discovered the Anglo Concertina and never really persisted with the melodeon. It's currently gathering dust in the loft and maybe I should get it down and have another go.


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: treewind
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM

Years ago, when I played a Hohner Pokerwork with B major chord, I noticed Tony Hall had a B minor chord on his, which he used to stunning effect (as he would), so when I got my Oakwood (brand new, made to order so any requested customisation wouold be considered) I asked for B minor and got it. Only later I discovered that many others are made with B minor as standard.

Yes, it does make more sense.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: s&r
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:23 AM

Some melodeon players I was told tape the thirs closed in the LH chords, so playing what guitarists would call 'Power Chords' ie root + fith

Stu


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Marje
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:16 AM

Yes, I used to have a meolodeon that had B major, which meant it sounded wrong for some tunes. The one I have now has a stop for taking the thirds out of the chords, which leaves a nicely vague open 5th.

I think it's quite important to understand that the G-C sequence is not paralleled on the D row basses. If you try using the B buttons where you'd use a C, it ofen sounds weird. You can, as Anahata says, forget about this until later, but this means you have to un-learn a way of doing things, and it may be easier to learn to cross rows from the start. The equivalent sequence to G-C is D-G, which you can only get by crossing to the other row of bass buttons. This means you have to play certain melody notes on the push rather than the pull, so you may have to cross rows for this as well.

It sounds a bit tiresome, but the earlier you learn it, the easier it'll be and the sooner you get used to it. Otherwise you'll always have this uneasy sound of not-quite-right chords when you play certain tunes in D. Some melodeon players try to avoid playing in D at all because they can't quite get their heads and fingers around this, but that's a bit of a waste of a two-row instrument.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:22 AM

BC explaination I posted yesterday and it is not here today (go figure)


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:23 AM

gd (sic) they include midi numbers apparently.


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:33 AM

Dear I suggest either Mally's or Roger Watson's books?

JK has done a DVD, but haven't actually seen it.


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:39 AM

The Bminor option does make a lot of sense (mel.net have discussed this in the past and not everyone agrees) but I don't think I've ever come across a factory box (in DG at least) that didn't have the Bmajor Chord. Many box players I know either tape over some, or all of the thirds or have the thirds taken out with a stop.

Mr Red, if the Bmajor sounds wrong try combining the B bass note with the D chord this, in effect, gives a Bm7 chord (BDF#A) and it works well as a compromise if you don't have a stop to take out the thirds and don't want to tape over the thirds either. This trick also works well to get Aminor - A bass note and the C chord (ACEG). I use these cheats all the time, they take a bit of getting your fingers and brain round, but well worth the effort. Other possibilities are there with combining different bass notes and chords but these are the two I use.


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:44 AM

That MIDI chart is the least helpful thing I can imagine for a new player. It's more use to someone who wants to make an electronic melodeon. It doesn't show where the buttons are, and you hav to woprk out the chords by knowing, for example, that D, F# and A make a D major chord.

John K's video course comes in three instalments which you can buy separately. I've not seen it but it comes highly recommended by others. It's possibly a better approach that reading books.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:44 AM

you can't cut and paste books - well not into computers.
I have done the right hand now for the chords etc.


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM

I know what most of you are saying. But it is from the playing of the instrument viewpoint. There are those of a technical bent who start with the maths and understand from that known position. Mine is steeped in Fourier analysis. What you call octave I know as harmonic or "multiple of".
The first stop for me IS the actual frequencies or combinations thereof. What you call the tone of an instrument's chord I see as non-synchronous frequencies that the western ear has codified as approximately pleasantly related (12 notes does not cover all true sharps and flats). And those chords include a certain non-linear mixing of two or more frequencies - which I know as sum and difference frequencies, and their harmonics also and sum and differences of all above ad nauseum. I hear a chord, but I perceive the gamut technically. It is still as pleasant (or not sometimes) but far more interesting to me.

Now it mayhap I go no further than the spreadsheet - the analysis has a different purpose. But I am still stuck with two melodeons, The toy (in red) in C and an old beasty from Saxony in A (or maybe A# as Pete Grassby put it). Transpositions are a must! And you can see how I will do it.

Anyone remember the Kippers and their "tremolodeon"? it used a wobbly pendulum creating vibrato. Or was it a wheel with an eccentric weight?


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM

"..but I don't think I've ever come across a factory box (in DG at least) that didn't have the Bmajor Chord"

My Delicia (which I bought new) came with B minor!


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Subject: RE: Melodeon notes/chord left hand?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:30 PM

Me too. Both my DG boxes have the Bm. I thought that was standard, I don't think I've come across a D/G box with a Bmaj chord.

My C/F Club has the corresponding major chord there but I thought that was standard Club layout.


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