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Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth

Ruth Archer 11 Aug 09 - 05:24 AM
steve_harris 11 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 05:58 AM
steve_harris 11 Aug 09 - 06:35 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 AM
SteveMansfield 11 Aug 09 - 06:39 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 11 Aug 09 - 07:30 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 07:37 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Aug 09 - 08:23 AM
Ruth Archer 11 Aug 09 - 08:29 AM
Emma B 11 Aug 09 - 08:40 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Aug 09 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Jemma Gurney 11 Aug 09 - 09:03 AM
Howard Jones 11 Aug 09 - 09:27 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 10:01 AM
Howard Jones 11 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 10:28 AM
steve_harris 11 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM
Ruth Archer 11 Aug 09 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 11 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM
Howard Jones 11 Aug 09 - 10:59 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM
Howard Jones 11 Aug 09 - 11:08 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 11:11 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 11:15 AM
Jeri 11 Aug 09 - 11:18 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 11:20 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 11:27 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 11 Aug 09 - 11:56 AM
steve_harris 11 Aug 09 - 12:05 PM
The Borchester Echo 11 Aug 09 - 12:15 PM
Banjiman 11 Aug 09 - 12:20 PM
theleveller 11 Aug 09 - 12:25 PM
The Sandman 11 Aug 09 - 02:16 PM
Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive) 11 Aug 09 - 02:29 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 02:44 PM
Fred McCormick 11 Aug 09 - 02:55 PM
Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive) 11 Aug 09 - 03:03 PM
Fred McCormick 11 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM
Andy Jackson 11 Aug 09 - 03:36 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 03:37 PM
Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive) 11 Aug 09 - 03:44 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 09 - 03:52 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 11 Aug 09 - 03:55 PM
Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive) 11 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM
steve_harris 11 Aug 09 - 04:07 PM
Folknacious 11 Aug 09 - 04:09 PM
Folknacious 11 Aug 09 - 04:12 PM
Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive) 11 Aug 09 - 04:24 PM
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Subject: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:24 AM

The FAF launch at Sidmouth Folk Week was a great success. Here is an audio recording made on the day: http://www.archive.org/details/FolkAgainstFascismLaunchAtSidmouthFolkFestAugust2009.


And here is a video of the closing song, Country Life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9GVGI_A5nw

A piece about the launch appeared on The World Tonight on Radio 4 - it's still available for a few more days on Listen Again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lttsp.

There was also a related news article on the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8191094.stm

The launch was one of the highlights of Sidmouth Folk Week, with an hour-long concert jam featuring Spiers and Boden, Eliza Carthy, Jim Moray, Dogan Mehmet, Steve Knightley, Pete Coe, Saul Rose, Maclaine Colston and MCd by Paul Sartin. Apart from the political message, which came across loud and clear, it was a bloody great gig!

At the launch, we talked about FAF Week, which will take place from 23 April (St George's Day) through 2 May (okay, slightly more than a week, but it means we can have two full weekends of activity!) We hope to hold a big, high- profile national event during this time, but we'd also like FAFfers all over the country to organise their own gigs, events, fetes, dance-outs, village hall parties, ceilidhs, and whatever else you can think of. These events will not only bring the FAF message to a wider audience in your towns and communities, but will be a positive response to the BNP's stated desire to co-opt the traditional English holidays of St George's Day and May Day.

At the launch we also announced a FAF logo for CD covers, which will allow artists to take a positive stand against their music being appropriated by the BNP. This is something that has been welcomed, and several high-profile folk aritsts are already planning to incorporate it into forthcoming albums.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

This event didn't work for me. It had a line of famous musicians on stage who each said a few words and played a piece. After the 4th, I left.

I was hoping for someone (possibly of no musical ability at all) would do a good job of explaining the issue.

Logos and famous people are all very well but I'd prefer fact and argument


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:58 AM

A bunch of fascist thugs are muscling in on and attempting to misappropriate English music for their own vile, racist purposes.
English musicians deplore this and are fighting back.
What's hard to understand?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:35 AM

A bunch of fascist thugs are muscling in on and attempting to misappropriate English music for their own vile, racist purposes.<\i>

Thank you for that calm and detailed statement of the facts. You have utterly convinced me.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 AM

I think Steve Harris is making an honest and quite reasonable observation (not that I was there btw.). I'm sure the organisers will be open to hearing constructive suggestions and observations, for the arranging of future events.

But I think it's a subject which raises quite a lot of complicated issues (as we see from threads on this forum), and contentious ones. One Hour is quite a tight slot. It sounds to me like it was a fairly short launch show, where the focus was simply on the music and simply having fun. I think that's quite reasonable too, even though it won't necessarily satisfy all.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 AM

PLease can this go below the line to join the rest of the hot air being blown on this subject?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:39 AM

Mailing list sign-up at the (as yet single page) website, http://www.folkagainstfascism.com/.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:30 AM

First link from the OP doesn't seem to work for me.

Any more YouTubes from the show?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:37 AM

Try this.

It's an AUDIO link.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:23 AM

Diane is as usual correct. John MacKenzie is as usual almost unbelievable. It is curious that Mr Harris does not appear to appreciate any of the issues. Simple version follows.

The BNP took up distributing recordings made by (largely English) performers of folk and similar music and song through its merchandising arm (Excalibur). It did so by buying the recordings wholesale. The wishes of the recording artists and where relevant composers were not taken into account, and many such people who were opposed to the BNP found their work, names, and images used as if they supported the BNP.

The BNP has a programme via related organisations of supporting and funding folk-related events - so that it can use the "essentially English" nature of them to inspire bigotry against those it does not find sufficiently English. The policy is set out in the BNP's own handbook for its activists.

The BNP has its own folk-alike singers (singer songwriters) like David Hannam who compose and perform contemporary folk-ish music that contains anti-immigrant bigotry.

THe BNP has cloned the identities of a considerable number of mudcat members who also perform folk and similar music and song, and presented those cloned identities as if they were supporters of the BNP.

The BNP is a neo-nazi party. Its principal policy is racial prejudice, but it is also crammed with criminals and through its links with organisations like "Redwatch" it supports the intimidation by violence of its opponents.

The preponderance of performers and creators of folk and folk-alike music and song wish to make it clear that they reject the platform of the BNP, and do not wish their work, names, or images to be exploited by that party in any of its works. They say (and rightly so) that the BNP is evil. They would find the use by the BNP of folk music and song (because of the bucolic, white-populated imagery, reminiscent of "the Haywain" painting, of traditional English and other British folk music and song) to symbolise a purer past, free from coloured immigration quite repulsive.

Nazi Germany adopted volkslieder as party songs. The same must not happen here.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:29 AM

If Steve Harris had stayed for more than 4 songs, he would have heard the talky bit. Or he could have picked up a flyer in the foyer, which explained the ideas behind the project.

My original idea was to have a more discussion-based event, but the musicians and the MC agreed the final format. Judging by the majority of the responses afterwards and the audience which steadily grew during the hour, it worked.

John, Joe Offer said that when there was some music-based activity around FAF to discuss, a new thread could be started above the line. Here it is. I hope it will continue to be about events and plans for FAF week in 2010 or about responses to the launch.

If it doesn't interest you, you don't have to read it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:40 AM

Thanks for the link to Country Life Ruth, so sorry I had to leave Sidmouth early.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:44 AM

Crow Sister
"But I think it's a subject which raises quite a lot of complicated issues (as we see from threads on this forum), and contentious ones."
Contention I can understand, but can you explain what is complicated about racism and anti-fascism?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Jemma Gurney
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 09:03 AM

Some other vague thoughts around this subject…

·        A professional artist can have one of two aims
o        The make music for making lots of money aim (KLF manual etc)
o        The make music that is your passion aim
o        (That's not to say that following the second aim can't lead to the first aim result, and obviously it's not that black and white – there is lots of grey too, but…)

·        Lets assume most folk musicians are working along the lines of aim 2.

·        That means their music has a personal edge to it. They are putting a bit of what they stand for in this world out there with their music.

·        That music is being used by an organisation that they don't agree with.

·        Most of the folkie world doesn't live on folk internet forums. Let alone those listening to said organisation's (rather tabloid-esq) publicity.

·        The folk against fascism group is giving artists other avenues to publicly state that they are not in agreement with this organisation, despite them using their music. The organised logo (like the point of any logo) aims to give a clear, united format, which is simple in announcing its aim.

Well done Joan (and unnamed others) – for both putting this together, and for getting the bbc to do too a story on it that didn't make me cringe once (something very rare for me when I normally listen/read media reports on folk!)

Jems


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 09:27 AM

I wasn't there myself as I was taking part in the Workshops concert. However 4 songs is probably at least 15 or 20 minutes into the event. It strikes me that's possibly a bit late to get around to the "talky bit". They should have got to the point a bit sooner. How many others lost interest besides Steve Harris?

It looks as if the organisers may have assumed too much knowledge on the part of the audience. However most people aren't on internet forums and may be blissfully unaware of the issues here. You can't rely on people picking up flyers, especially when they've gone to an event which is supposed to be launching a campaign. They'd expect to be told what it was about. When I saw it in the programme I was actually expecting there to be more talk than music.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:01 AM

Sorry, I don't wish to denigrate the sincere feelings behind some of the sentiments expressed here, but talking about things, never actually gets anything done.
Joining organisations is all very noble, but changes nothing. While all it does on this forum is attract undesirables to cause trouble.
I detect a fair degree of smugness in some of the posts, and I am quite sure that all of those who joined up would not turn out and actually do anything concrete.
So that's why I think a lot of it is hot air.
I also repeat my comment on another thread.
It seems like an odd place to campaign against a British organisation on a self selecting; US based web site, like this.
While the label Folk against Fascism is all very neat, this is not the place for the battle to be fought IMHO, it may even cause problems for this site.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM

This site may be US based, but this is the internet, it doesn't really matter where a site is hosted. This forum has an international membership, with a substantial number from the UK, Canada, Australia as well as other countries outside the US. There are literally hundreds of threads discussing UK issues, above and below the line, and hundreds more which attract contributions from all nationalities.

You are entitled to disagree with the opinions posted, or the effectiveness of the campaign, but to say Mudcat is an odd place to discuss it seems... odd.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:28 AM

Sorry Howard, but as I understand it, the FaF was formed to fight the BNP, which is a peculiarly British organisation.
One of the basic rules of warfare is to pick your battleground as carefully as you can, and I still think this is the wrong arena.
If the BNP and it's adherents, some of whom are obviously computer savvy, take it into their heads to try and sabotage Mudcat, then those who are the majority here, might suffer instead of the minority that is FaF.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM

Thanks for the long list of allegations, Richard. Some of them sound quite dreadful and almost unbelievable. This part caught my eye:

The BNP has a programme via related organisations of supporting and funding folk-related events - so that it can use the "essentially English" nature of them to inspire bigotry against those it does not find sufficiently English. The policy is set out in the BNP's own handbook for its activists

(Emphasis by me)

I've downloaded the "Activists & Organisers Handbook" from bnp.org.uk. Please can you point me to the relevant section?

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:35 AM

John, Mudcat is only one of several places where this message is being spread. It is relevant to the British folk community, which is why it is important that the message reaches this forum, especially the following, taken from my OP in this thread:

"At the launch, we talked about FAF Week, which will take place from 23 April (St George's Day) through 2 May (okay, slightly more than a week, but it means we can have two full weekends of activity!) We hope to hold a big, high- profile national event during this time, but we'd also like FAFfers all over the country to organise their own gigs, events, fetes, dance-outs, village hall parties, ceilidhs, and whatever else you can think of. These events will not only bring the FAF message to a wider audience in your towns and communities, but will be a positive response to the BNP's stated desire to co-opt the traditional English holidays of St George's Day and May Day."


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM

The first song of the concert was Steve Knightley singing Roots and he clearly said why he was singing it and what the BNP were trying to do. Dogan Mehmet did the same a bit later. The leaflet was available in the foyer before people went in. The concert was clearly billed as 1 hour ... complaining that the talky bit didn't happen in the first few minutes is like walking out of a Ralph mctell concert at half time and complaining he hadn't sung Streets of London (which I assume he does as an encore!)
Derek


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:59 AM

Derek, if you say you're going to launch something and then don't get round to to it until a third of the way through the event, then you're going to lose some people's attention, especially those who aren't already supporters and who've gone there to find out what it's all about. You clearly lost the attention of at least one person - how many others did you lose?

All I'm suggesting is that next time you get to the point a bit sooner.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM

Sorry, basically I'm an apolitical animal, and it bugs me using Folk [What sort of folk?] as a vehicle for a political campaign.
The fact still remains that this is NOT a British based site. In fact I have heard mutterings in some quarters that SOME people in the US resent the British takeover of Mudcat, at times.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:08 AM

John, the idea of FaF is to prevent folk music being used as a vehicle for a political campaign.

Whatever it's origins, Mudcat is now quite clearly not a US site. There are extensive discussions on Irish and English music and performers above the line, and on non-US matters below the line. If it is to revert to being US-only, that is for Joe and the others to decide, but that would be regrettable as I think it does a lot to unite all of us, no matter where we live, through a shared interest in music.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:11 AM

If it bugs you that "f*lk" (whatever that is) is being used as a vehicle in a political campaign, then it surely should bother you that a fascist front is attempting to use it for just that.

That is the entire rationale of FAF.

If some Murkans "resent" English people being up in arms at such a threat to their music, that's tough. It won't stop me. Perhaps they could concern themselves a lot more with what global capitalism is doing to their music, if they can't be arsed to care about ours.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:15 AM

Well Diane, I'm not going to bandy words with you on the subject, essentially my feelings are this.
I come to Mudcat for Folk Music not politics.
PLUS
My original post still holds good, this thread should be in the BS section.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:18 AM

Howard, it's a U.S. based site, but it's never been U.S. only. Max has said something to the effect that Mudcat is whatever contributors make it.

Unfortunately the loud and persistent always win, but that's true of street corners and town hall meetings and just about everywhere else. Except maybe places like libraries, churches and places where politeness is enforced.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:20 AM

Where do you put the fag paper between them or, to put it another way, Which Side Are You On?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:27 AM

My last post referred to the mythical division between music and politics. There isn't one.

In my public library, the local branch of disaffected fascist emigre former East Europeans has been superseded by Haringey skinheads and layabouts, scraping their knuckles along the floor and keeping up a day-long tirade against the non-white. Quiet it ain't.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:56 AM

Jim, I might well be wrong, but my GUESS was that in a tight time slot the organisers may have decided to focus more on music than discussion. My point was that discussions of this sort so often become complicated and contentious, due to the poxy nit-picking, petty bickering and argument that threads like this descend into - which your comment to me has illustrated rather well. In my humble, it's all very not useful in the slightest. I was noteing that while S Harris (as someone who apparently didn't know what the campaign was about) *might* have been making a fair observation worth considering, but I also can also understand that the fairly tight one hour launch slot, being more musical than speech or discussion oriented. Anyway, feel free to reply and quibble, but I won't be. I'm not going to contribute anything further, that will aid this thread to follow the same path all the rest seem to. Sorry if I sound 'short' I'm in an irritable mood.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:05 PM

John, the idea of FaF is to prevent folk music being used as a vehicle for a political campaign.

And it's a particular campaign. Songs supportibve of Irish Nationalism or (say) Trade Unions are absolutely fine


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:15 PM

What would be Listmeister Harris's views on campaigns to stay on topic? I thought it was one which exercised him greatly and so he should know that his own list is degenerating into a tedious wrangle on how to pronounce "Shrewsbury".


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:20 PM

Steve Harris,

Just so I don't jump to the wrong conclusion would you just be able to confirm that you're not involved with or sympathetic towards the misappropriation of British folk music by the BNP?

Just so we know what we are dealing with.

Thanks


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:25 PM

John, if you take political protest out of folk music you are cutting away a huge trench of the genre. Like it or not, politics in its broadest sense (and especially leftist politics) has long been an intrinsic part of folk music, even before it was so-called . It is, therefore, perfectly acceptable to discuss this on a folk messsage board.

My take on FAF is that it has two basic aims:
1.        To stop the BNP from trying to use folk music to give credence to their nasty view of Englishness, especially when the artists they play have publicly stated their opposition to the BNP and its politics.
2.        To use folk music in its long-established role as a means of protest against the type of oppressive and repressive agenda that is peddled by the BNP.

As Diane says: which side are you on?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:16 PM

this excellent project will undoubtedly be used by musicians to further their own careers,if Folk against Fascism does achieve its aims that wont matter,if it doesnt it will be deja vu[remember Perform].
I hope Folk against Fascism is successful,and if anyone requires my services,you know where I can be contacted.
my website is temporarily out of action,[hopefully not the Fasicts],but it should soon be up and running.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:29 PM

"I come to Mudcat for Folk Music not politics..."
-John MacKenzie

Then you, sunshine, are in the wrong place.

"it bugs me using Folk [What sort of folk?] as a vehicle for a political campaign."
-John MacKenzie

Just one question: What have YOU been listening to then? As has been stated, more than once, folk music has been used as a vehicle for protest and social change, and observation for more years that I want to think about.

Stand and Be Counted!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:44 PM

Stupid argument. I could furnish you with thousands of folk songs that are not political. Like me


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:55 PM

I can't remember anything in the handbook concerning the BNP's policy towards folk music, but their policy towards folk customs is indeed set out there. It is positively hilarious on account of the number of mistakes.

Further news of their intended activism in folk customs came with their election leaflet and the announcement that they'd established something called The English Fair Fund. That was the pamphlet which showed photographs of a Polish Spitfire, and American models pretending to be British workers.

British jobs for British workers? Not where the BNP is concerned, evidently.


Steve Harris:-

I've downloaded the "Activists & Organisers Handbook" from bnp.org.uk. Please can you point me to the relevant section?

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:03 PM

".....that are not political. Like me:
-John MacKenzie

As an American friend of mine says, if you can"t run with the big dogs, stay on the front porch"

I'll tell you this, I, for one, am not going to sit by and allow scum of the earth, like the BNP, to steal and then destroy my heritage.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM

John McKenzie:- "I could furnish you with thousands of folk songs that are not political."

And I could furnish you with thousands of folk songs wich are. So what? In any event, FAF was started to prevent the BNP from staging a political take over of our folk heritage. If you want to keep politics out of folk music, it would be useful if you took the matter up with the BNP.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:36 PM

I am standing up to be counted as dead against all that the BNP stand for. I have no interest in run of the mill politics, a song is a song and the message within an be about anything it likes as far as I am concerned. I happen to prefer songs of past times and romantic songs, but many "political" songs move me greatly. Some of my favourite songs to sing are based on war and/or it's effect on people, but I don't sing these as a political statement as such.
Let's stop bickering about our own credibility and concentrate on keeping those BNP bastards away from "our" heritage.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:37 PM

I'm not going to let them do it either my anonymous friend, but joining silly groups isn't going to stop them either.
People need to get out on the streets, campaign against them in public, attend their election meetings and ask awkward questions.
Most important, vote against them, make your vote count by voting for the candidate most likely to beat them, forget political allegiances in the name of beating them. If that's how strongly you feel, that's what you need to do.
Not exchange idealistic posts in an obscure web forum. Which is not a political forum anyway.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:44 PM

"People need to get out on the streets, campaign against them in public, attend their election meetings and ask awkward questions"
- John MacKenzie

ummmm...I do believe that is EXACTLTY what FaF is doing...oh and is this
Folk Against Fascism launch, Sidmouth 07.08.09)
public enough for you...?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:52 PM

It's a start, and a lot better then penning righteous solecisms


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:55 PM

Well said Jamming...


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM

I do believe I'll continue with the "righteous solecisms " as well, anything to get the word out about the BNP and their ilk, mind you, I've been active in anti racist movements for a few years now, so I DO have the field experience.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:07 PM

@Banjiman: I do not support the BNP. However, I'm not jumping on a bandwagon and wearing a black T-shirt just because people who can sing better me say I should.

Instead, I'm asking questions to try and cut through the "spin" and clarify the issue. It seems to be difficult.

In contrast, if I go to the BNP web site, I can see their ideas and policies easily. I don't agree with them but they are doing a much better communications job!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folknacious
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:09 PM

The Nazis hi-jacked German folk music in the 1930s and as a result most Germans wouldn't touch it with the proverbial bargepole for generations. The BNP are trying to do the same with British folk music: personally, I care too much about it to allow them to do the same with it as the Nazis. The other things that they are doing the same as the Nazis are awful too, but that's not what, as I understand it, FAF was specifically formed to counter. That's why FAF is very relevant as a music thread: music its raison d'etre. It' doesn't claim to be a broad-church anti-BNP organisation as far as I can see, it's a specifically music-related one.

It's fairly clear that some of the contributers to this thread are pro-BNP, and I notice that "Steve Harris" didn't answer the very simple straightforward question posed to him and that "John McKenzie" describes FAF as a "silly group". Well, if you want to trade insults, we don't expect much better from somebody apparently in a silly country.

If the Brits have taken over an American board, maybe its because the Brits care more about their folk music than the Americans. Maybe. Even if we do often have strange ways of showing it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folknacious
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:12 PM

OK, "Steve Harris" answered while I was posting. He claims to not support the BNP but is against the people who oppose them and are willing to get of their arses and do something. Any minute now he'll probably say "and some of my best frinds are black people." Mr Harris, we know your kind.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:24 PM

"I'm asking questions to try and cut through the "spin" and clarify the issue"
- Steve Harris

Maybe you should go
Here
and
Here

engage with and commit to..

black t-shirts are optional *LOL*


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