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Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang

Azizi 13 Aug 09 - 11:16 PM
Azizi 13 Aug 09 - 11:32 PM
Azizi 13 Aug 09 - 11:34 PM
Azizi 13 Aug 09 - 11:52 PM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 12:07 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 12:16 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 12:26 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 12:31 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 12:40 AM
GUEST,Gerry 14 Aug 09 - 01:28 AM
Gweltas 14 Aug 09 - 01:55 AM
Gweltas 14 Aug 09 - 02:03 AM
open mike 14 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM
SINSULL 14 Aug 09 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Aug 09 - 11:26 AM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 01:06 PM
Ross Campbell 14 Aug 09 - 02:48 PM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Aug 09 - 05:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Aug 09 - 05:28 PM
Azizi 14 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM
open mike 14 Aug 09 - 06:19 PM
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Ross Campbell 14 Aug 09 - 08:26 PM
Azizi 15 Aug 09 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 15 Aug 09 - 05:15 PM
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Subject: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 11:16 PM

I'm trying to suss out (discover) if there are any connections between Bosco chocolate syrup, the [American] Bosko cartoon character, and the slang terms "bosco/bosko absoluto", and "bosky".

Thanks to Google, I've just found out that there was a children's puppet on Irish television during the late 1970s and early 1980s who was also named "Bosco". I'm wondering if there was any connection between the that television puppet and those other Bosco/Boskos. And I won't be upset if someone says "Absolutely not!" :o)

[That last comment was partly for someone who recently told me that I didn't have a sense of humor. I do. It's just not readily apparent. But that said, from what I know thus far, I'm inclined not to find any of these Bosco/Bosko characters or either of the Bosco slang meanings to be at all funny. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise.]   

For what it's worth, my interest in these subjects was sparked by the parody to the Bosco children's jingle as examples of certain parodies will be part of the children's playground rhymes and cheers book that I've finally settled on editing.   

In my next posts to this thread I'll share information I found online about the meaning of "bosco absoluto" and "bosky". I'l also post hyperlinks and excerpts of online information that I've found thus far on the American Bosko cartoon character.

I'm curious whether any Mudcat members or guests remembers the Bosco syrup jingle and/or knows any children's parody of the Bosco jingle. If so, it would be great if you would share your what you remember.


Thanks in advance for your participation on this thread.

-Azizi


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 11:32 PM

First of all, I'd like to focus on the slang phrase "bosco absoluto" and "bosky".

Here's a Mudcat post that I found:

Subject: RE: Folklore: How do you say drunk?
From: GUEST,Raedwulf - PM
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:22 PM

Bosko absoluto (No idea what 'bosko' means, but dates back to WWI & beyond; possibly Army slang, rather than general)...


thread.cfm?threadid=55650#868479

-snip-

Here's what I've found so far:

[Page 149, line 14] bosko-absoluto (bosky-absolute). A neat composite word. "Bosky" is a dialect word of 1730 meaning "tipsy" and "absolute" is a natural superlative. Hence very drunk indeed.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:nuGGN0B4ZXgJ:www.kipling.org.uk/rg_janeites_notes.htm+bosko+absoluto&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=u

and


Bosco/Bosko absoluto - Dead drunk. Mock Latin.
Bosky - Almost drunk, tipsy. Possibly from "bosk," a thicket, and thus alluding to the obscurity of thickly wooded country. Dates from circa 1730; still in British army slang in the 1920s.

http://freaky_freya.tripod.com/Drunktionary/A-B.html

****

Is this mystery solved?

Are these words British English? And if so are the still used in Britain? And does anyone who lives outside of Great Britain heard "bosco absoluto" and/or "bosky" being used?

Inquiring minds want to know [or at least my inquiring mind wants to know].


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 11:34 PM

Ah-my first typo of this thread-at least the first one I've noticed. Here's the correction-

And if so are they still used in Britain?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 11:52 PM

Here's some information about the Bosko cartoon:

Bosko is an animated cartoon character created by animators Hugh Harman and Rudolf Ising. Bosko was the first recurring character in Leon Schlesinger's cartoon series, and was the star of over three dozen Looney Tunes shorts released by Warner Bros...

Bosko became the star vehicle for the studio's new Looney Tunes cartoon series. Bosko wore long pants and a derby hat, and he had a girlfriend named Honey and a dog named Bruno. He was also sometimes accompanied by an orphan cat named Wilbur.

Although Harman and Ising based Bosko's looks on Felix the Cat, Bosko, like Mickey [Mouse], got his personality from the blackface characters of the minstrel and vaudeville shows popular in the 1930s. Whereas Disney masked Mickey by making him a mouse, Harman and Ising made Bosko a genuine black boy.

In keeping with the stereotypes of the minstrel shows, Bosko is a natural at singing, dancing, and playing any instrument he encounters. In fact, Bosko has the ability to play virtually anything as an instrument, be it a wooden bridge-turned-xylophone or a Dachshund-turned-accordion. In early cartoons, Bosko (voiced by Carmen Maxwell) even speaks in an exaggerated version of black speech (However, this was only in the first cartoon. All later cartoons would give him a falsetto voice). Despite the parallels between Bosko and the blackface performers, Ising in later years would deny that the character was ever supposed to be a black caricature."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosko

Also, see this article about Bosko:

Looney Toons' Bosko and Honey series (1930-36)
http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2009/08/11/felix-the-cat-blackface/

And here's a link to a review of a DVD of vintage Bosko cartoons:

http://www.imagesjournal.com/issue09/reviews/bosko/text.htm

And excerpt of that review follows:

..."Today, it's not altogether surprising that Bosko has faded from memory. Compared to subsequent Warner Bros. cartoon stars, such as Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, Bosko is a bit bland, but these early sound-era cartoons nonetheless have charm. They're also mischievous and they occasionally contain surprisingly bawdy humor (frequently of a barn-yard variety). For example, in "The Booze Hangs High" (1930), the cartoon opens with a dark screen. Suddenly it becomes clear why the screen was dark: a cow's rear was in front of the camera! As the opening credits end, the cow walks away from the camera and the barnyard characters start interacting. "Congo Jazz" (1930) features trees that bump and grind like strippers, including branches that swing like breasts.

For cartoon aficionados who love such moments of naughty cartoon humor, the Bosko cartoons contain many surprises. This is one of the main attractions of these cartoons, as evidenced by the title of two new DVDs from Bosko Video and Image Entertainment: Uncensored Bosko, Volume 1 and Volume 2. But it would be a mistake to think the only attraction of these Bosko cartoons is their occasional bawdy moments. These are frequently witty cartoons. They never consistently hit the same level of wit as even medium-level Bugs Bunny cartoons, but these cartoons definitely deserve greater recognition. In particular, you can witness the early work of one of Warner Bros.' greatest animators -- Friz Freleng. In general, his cartoons are a notch ahead of the others on these two DVDs.

...The first Bosko cartoon, "Bosko the Talk-Ink Kid" (1929; a demo made to attract potential backers), made this issue clear as Bosko stepped forward and said, "Well, here I is and I sho' feels good." Then he does a soft shoe dance. It's guaranteed to make many modern audience members groan in disbelief at the broad African-American caricature. Fortunately, however, subsequent Bosko cartoons make his heritage difficult to decipher. He immediately loses his Deep South accent -- until the final moments of each cartoon when he reverts to a Southern, black accent for "That's all folks." (These words long pre-date Porky Pig's stuttering finale for the classic later period Warner Bros. cartoons.)

(These words long pre-date Porky Pig's stuttering finale for the classic later period Warner Bros. cartoons.) Never does Bosko's heritage come into question. He merely inhabits a "funny animal" world -- almost never encountering other humans (except for his girlfriend Honey) -- so his status as a human becomes irrelevant. Instead, he becomes a nondescript "funny animal" himself."...

-snip-

So that's all folks-well, it's not quite all. But I'm interested in "hearing" your opinions about this Bosko character, if you have any opinion of him at all.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:07 AM

And as for Bosco chocolate syrup, I confess that I thought that Bosco was no longer still made.

But it turns out that Bosco Company is based in my old home state of New Jersey, and according to that company's official website http://www.boscoworld.com/
people can buy Bosco syrup in certain stores in some US states. And Bosco products (including tee shirts) can also be purchased online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosco_Chocolate_Syrup provides this information:

"Bosco Chocolate Syrup is a brand of chocolate syrup first produced in 1928. The company which produces it is based in New Jersey, and it is sold throughout the United States, Western Europe, Asia and the Middle East."

-snip-

Who knew...

At least one other person-besides me-was curious about the name "Bosco".


Question:

Why is Bosco chocolate syrup called Bosco?

Answer:
The name Bosco was derived from the similar name for Boscul Coffee sold by the William S. Scull Company which also initially distributed Bosco chocolate syrup manufactured by the Wallerstein Company using a unique enzymatic conversion process invented by one of its chemists. Wallerstein kept the name on taking over marketing and later copyrighted the "Bosco Jingle" (I Love Bosco). In the mid-1950's, Bosco was sold to Corn Products Company. In 1985, the brand was taken over by Bosco Products, Inc., an independent company based in Towaco, New Jersey

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_Bosco_chocolate_syrup_called_Bosco

-snip-

So after reading that, my next question was "Why was the Boscul Coffee company called "Boscul coffee"? And my follow-up question was "What does "Boscul" mean?"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:16 AM

What I really want to know is if there is any connection between the Bosco chocolate syrup product [which was first produced in 1928 and the first Bosko cartoon which was aired in 1929.

Is the similarity in names and the close proximity in dates just a
coincidence?

Also, I wondering why the name "Bosko" was chosen for that cartoon character. Given the fact that "bosky" means "almost drunk" and "bosco absoluto" (also spelled "bosko absoluto") means "dead drunk", is it too far fetched to believe that the creators of the American Bosko cartoon were making a subtle dig at those people who that character was [supposedly] modeled after? *

*perhaps the right slang word would be "diss"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:26 AM

As I mentioned in my first post to this thread, I only learned about the Irish program "Bosco" today -well actually last night.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia page about that program with a brief excerpt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosco

"Bosco was an Irish children's television programme produced during the late 1970s and early 1980s. It was produced by the Lambert Puppet Theatre...

Bosco (born August 25) is the main character in the programme. He was a small red-haired puppet with bright red cheeks. Bosco lived in a box, only ever leaving it to go on excursions to such places as Dublin Zoo or the H.B. factory."

-snip-

Does anyone remember watching this program? I suppose there's no connection to the American Bosko, or maybe the creators of that puppet show remembered reading about the 1930s American cartoon-which admittedly was ground breaking in a number of ways. So maybe the Bosco puppet was named in honor of that cartoon character?

And maybe I'm slightly bosky-figuratively speaking.

;o)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:31 AM

I'll end my postings-at least for now- with a repost of a Bosco chocolate syrup jingle:


Subject: RE: BS: What did you sing as a kid?
From: Melani - PM
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 12:38 PM


I hate Bosco! It's awful bad for me!

Mommy puts it in my milk to try to poison me!

I fooled Mommy! I put some in her tea,

And now there's no more Mommy to try to poison me!

Americans of appropriate age will remember the original Bosco jingle.

thread.cfm?threadid=40139


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:40 AM

In re-reading these posts, I see that I made a number of typing errors before the one I caught.

I want to reiterate that I'm not bosco absoluto or even the least bit bosky.

But I am tired. So-dare I say it?-Why not?



That's all folks!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:28 AM

The parody as posted in 2001 and re-posted above is pretty nearly the way my buddies and I sang it in New York City circa 1960. We sang, I hate Bosco! It's full of TNT/Mommy put it in my milk to try to poison me/But I fooled Mommy. I put it in her tea./Now there's no more Mommy left to try to poison me.

The parody has crowded the original out of my brain. Of course, it started "I love Bosco," and instead of TNT it was "full of energy," but that's about all I remember.

Seinfeld addicts will remember that George Costanza used Bosco as the password on his bank card.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Gweltas
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:55 AM

Dear Azizi,
In Ireland the name Bosco is associated with the Italian Saint John Bosco (aka "Don Bosco") the founder of the Catholic Salesian Brothers. See this link : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02689d.htm
He was declared to be Venerable in 1929 and was subsequently canonised (declared to be a saint) in 1934.
There is an Irish actor called Bosco Hogan, presumably named in honour of Don Bosco. See this link : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0389491/
The Lambert Puppet Theatre character, Bosco, who featured in a children's series on Irish TV in the '70's and 80's was much loved by my kids. I'm speculating here, but I suspect that the reason he was called Bosco might have been an inter-linguistic play on words, because the Irish language word for a box is "Bosca" and as the character Bosco lived in a box...... that might have been why he was so named !!!
However, I'm sure that a definitive answer may be had by contacting the Lambert Treatre Co. at the following address :
Lambert Puppet Theatre,
Clifton Lane,
Monkstown,
Co Dublin,
Ireland.
Tel:+ 353 (1) 2800974
Good luck with your research.
Best regards,
Anne XX


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Gweltas
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 02:03 AM

Dear Azizi,
I meant to also say that I don't know of any connections to either the slang words for being drunk or to any American product. The only faint and possibly very remote connection that I can come up with was that my late uncle used the word "Boko" to describe someone who was in a seriously drunken state. Incidentally, I'd better mention that the Irish TV puppet was never drunk !
Thats all !!
Anne XX


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM

I have heard basco and bosco in cowboy music refer to Basque people.
There is a possible connection between the texas Bosque river, a tributary of the Brazos river. Bosque is Spanish for "woods."


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread thus far!

Gerry, here's another confession-I've never watched the television show "Seinfeld". Thanks for sharing that information about the use of the word "Bosco" own that show.

Gweltas (Anne), I appreciate the information you shared about the name Bosco in the Irish television show and its possible connection to the Italian Saint John Bosco (a.k.a "Don Bosco). I also appreciate you informing us about the Irish actor, Bosco Hogan.

Thanks also Gweltas for letting us know that"bosca" means "box" in the Irish language (by the way-do you mean "Gaelic"?). I agree with you that the producers of that Bosco television program may have been making a play on words since that puppet who name was Bosco lived in a box. And I'm glad to know that that puppet was never drunk. LOL!

Here are the hyperlinks for the websites that you posted:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02689d.htm

and

p://www.imdb.com/name/nm0389491/

-snip-

Here's another hyperlink that provides information about the "Salesian Society":

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13398b.htm


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:40 AM

Thanks also open mike (Laurel) for the information about the other usages of the word "basco/bosco".

Laurel, the information that you shared about "Bosque" being Spanish for "woods" fits in with the Latin [?] meaning of "bosk," a thicket, as given in one of those links I posted in my second comment in this thread.

I'm wondering if anyone knows the etymology of "Basque" as used as a referent for that population. Could that group referent have something to do with "the woods"?

**

Returning to another facet of this thread, I'd love to know if the chocolate syrup "Bosco" and its jingle, and parody was/is familiar to any people who don't live in the USA.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM

Somebody asked why the syrup was called Bosco.

'The name Bosco was derived from the similar name for Boscul Coffee sold by the William S. Scull Company.'

I think the name started with 'Bill Scull,' which is probably what William S. Scull was called in everyday life. It is not hard at all to conceive of that becoming 'Bosco,' which is easier to pronounce and to put in a jingle.

Speaking of jingles, I learned this from a neighbor kid in the 1950's:

I love Bosco, it's the drink for me.
Mommy put it in my milk and almost poisoned me.
(assume phony, cultivated accent)
While she wasn't looking, I put it in her tea.
Dun dun dun da (Dragnet theme)
The cops are after me!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:53 AM

WIKIAnswers:
Answer
The name Bosco was derived from the similar name for Boscul Coffee sold by the William S. Scull Company which also initially distributed Bosco chocolate syrup manufactured by the Wallerstein Company using a unique enzymatic conversion process invented by one of its chemists. Wallerstein kept the name on taking over marketing and later copyrighted the "Bosco Jingle" (I Love Bosco). In the mid-1950's, Bosco was sold to Corn Products Company. In 1985, the brand was taken over by Bosco Products, Inc., an independent company based in Towaco, New Jersey.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 11:26 AM

Oops! the first line of the parody just above is wrong. It should be

I hate Bosco, it ain't the drink for me.
Mommy put it in my milk and almost poisoned me.
(assume phony, cultivated accent for next line.)
While she wasn't looking, I put it in her tea.
Dun dun dun da (Dragnet theme)
The cops are after me!

I hope this is a new addition for your collection of children's lore, Azizi.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:06 PM

leeneia and sinsull, I hadn't thought about the name "Bosco" being a combination of the name "Bill" and "Scull". That makes sense to me. And it just goes to remind me that similar sounding names don't have to have the same etymology.

But, it occurred to me regarding the Irish word "bosco" meaning box, that maybe there is a connection between that word and "bosque" being Spanish for "woods"the Spanish word for "woods" as in the old days most boxes were made out of wood, weren't they?

**

leeneia, thanks for that example! I appreciate it and, yes, it's different from others I've read. I'll definitely be adding it to "my" collection.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 02:48 PM

I think the connection between "bosco (box)" and "bosque (woods)" would be a bit of a stretch etymologically.

Re "bosco (box)", I seem to recall hearing the term used (possibly on Radio Eireann/RTE music programs) as a nickname for a button-accordion or melodeon player, both instruments commonly being referred to as a "box", I suppose short for "music-box", with the musicians referred to as "box-players". Off the top of my head I can't remember any specific musicians to whom the nickname might have applied.

Re "bosque (woods)", the adjective "bosky" occurs somewhere in Shakespeare (I think) and brings to mind the impenetrable nature of an unmanaged wood rather than a mature forest with little or no undergrowth.

Ross


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

Thanks for your comment Ross.

I know that the connection between bosque and bcx is a stretch, but I figure if we think out of the box [in a way of speaking] we might stumble across new information.

But thanks to Google, it's a breeze to find new information. Of course, I know that all of the information online isn't correct, but again sometimes the information is on-point.

Check out this information that I found by entering the key words "bosco" and "shakespeare" (I entered these two words without the word "and" and without quotation marks):

"Date: Wed Jan 6 00:04:28 EST 1999
Subject: A.Word.A.Day--bosky
X-Bonus: There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

bosky (BOS-kee) adjective

   1. Having an abundance of bushes, shrubs, or trees.

   2. Of or relating to woods.

[From Middle English bosk, bush, from Medieval Latin bosca, of Germanic
origin.]

   "And with each end of thy blue bow dost crown
   My bosky acres, and my unshrubb'd down,"
   Shakespeare, William, Tempest, The: Act IV.}

-snip-

Hmmm. Even though I know about the "woods" meaning for "bosco",
I hadn't thought that there was any connection between that word and the English word "bush".

And to make it so bad, "The Tempest" is one of the Shakespearian plays that I actually did read. (Not that that means that I would remember every little word in that play).

But now I know. It's just like they say- all's well that ends well.

:o)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:27 PM

Biography of St. John Bosco here:
Don Bosco School


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:28 PM

Sorry, DON Bosco.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM

Sorry, that information about the word "bosky" being in Shakespeare's "The Tempest" was on this web page:

http://wordsmith.org/awad/archives/0199

**

That web page has quotations with every entry. The quotation for the word bosky [BOS-kee] is:

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

-snip-

And that's kinda fitting but we're cool because by focusing on these bosky words, we're trying to be more knowledgeable-though the only action we're doing is using our fingers to do the walking [to borrow a saying from a USA "Yellow Pages" telephone book advertisement.


Here's another example on that web page which loosely fits this thread (or at least, loosely fits two parts of this thread-since this thread is made up of multiple subject parts just the way I like it)

"Date: Sat Jan 23 00:04:26 EST 1999
Subject: A.Word.A.Day--cellarer
X-Bonus: Let this be an example for the acquisition of all knowledge, virtue, and riches. By the fall of drops of water, by degrees, a pot is filled. -The Hitopadesa

cellarer (SEL-uhr-uhr) noun

A person, as in a monastic community, who is responsible for maintaining the supply of food and drink."

-snip-

Enjoy!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:19 PM

I do not recall Bosco,, just Ovaltine Chocolate malt drink mix.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Gweltas
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 07:24 PM

Dear Azizi,
Yes, you are correct in assuming that the word "BOSCA" meaning "box" does come from the Irish language (sometimes incorrectly called "Gaelic" when in fact the correct term is "Gaeilge", pronounced gwail-geh)
I'm inclined to agree with you that the similarities for words meaning "woods", such as the Portuguese and Spanish "bosque", the Dutch "bos", the French "bois", and the Italian "bosco" (would you believe!!) might well tie in with the fact that until quite recent times most boxes were made of wood.
I grew up in Ireland and never encountered either the American product, or the associated jingle, and I have been living in Cornwall, UK, for the last 15 years and I have not come across them here either.
Best regards,
Anne XX


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:26 PM

Azizi

"The Tempest" was what was in my mind, but I couldn't have produced the quote. Saw the play done by the Duke's Theatre, Lancaster, UK a few years ago, an outdoor "promenade" production in Lancaster's Williamson Park which offers an abundance of bosky dells as backdrops for the action. Very effective.

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:-

* Main Entry: (1)box
* Pronunciation: \ˈbäks\
* Function: noun
* Inflected Form(s): plural box or box·es
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Latin buxus, from Greek pyxos
* Date: before 12th century

: an evergreen shrub or small tree (genus Buxus of the family Buxaceae, the box family) with opposite entire leaves and capsular fruits; especially : a widely cultivated shrub (B. sempervirens) used for hedges, borders, and topiary figures

* Main Entry: (2)box:- 1 : a rigid typically rectangular container with or without a cover
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin buxis, from Greek pyxis, from pyxos box tree
* Date: before 12th century

So the shrub and the container have the same Latin/Greek roots: maybe not so far away. Box wood is a dense, close-grained wood similar to olive-wood in substance and colour. It is used for wood-turning, flutes/recorders/other woodwind instruments, but I can't see it ever having been used for the construction of boxes. At least in the UK, it's fairly slow-growing and would take too long to reach a size suitable for any more than small ornamental gift boxes. Perhaps not the case in warmer climates?

Ross


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:21 AM

Thanks to all who have contributed information to this thread.

I appreciate this learning experience.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:15 PM

It has nothing to do with box or Bosco, but here goes anyway -

When I see the word 'bosky' I think of the phrase 'bosky dell,' which I enountered in poetry somewhere. 'Bosky' means woodsy or shrubby, and a dell is a small, retired valley.

Googling 'bosky dell' produces lots of hits. There are towns, streets, farms and businesses named Bosky Dell. Who'd a thunk it?

Further back in time, 'bosky' is connected to an old French word, 'bocage,' which means woods or shrubbery.

Apparently the only way to link it with the chocolate drink is to stir the Bosco into your milk with a twig.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:47 PM

Hi, Guest,crazy little woman, ain't it great to be crazy?!

Thanks for adding the phrase "bosky dell" to our list of bosky words. And I loved your last sentence that "the only way to link [bosky meaning a wooded area] with the chocolate drink is to stir the Bosco into your milk with a twig". That's great!

By the way, I took your suggestion and looked up the phrase "bosky dell". A number of hits I got were from a blog called Bosky Dell Farm

Here's one comment from that blog:

"Our farm is called Bosky Dell Farm, meaning an earthy clearing in the woods. That's what our farm is like. We have 16 acres of mature sugar woods, and 6 of pasture. We planted a small orchard last year."


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:40 PM

Okay. So we may have sussed out [figured out] how "Bosco" chocolate syrup got its name-from the name of the owner William S. Scull (Bill) Scull.

(Could he have been called "boss Schull?)

And it seems likely that the Bosco puppet that was the star of the Irish television program got his name because he lived in a box.

And we know a lot more about the etymology of the word "bosky" than I bet lots of people nowadays do.

But it occurs to me that we still haven't figured out why the American cartoon character Bosko was given that name.

Earlier in this thread, I suggested that the creators of that cartoon character-which is based on a Black boy-chose that name as a way of insulting Black people (by alleging that even their children act in a drunken manner). But I offered that suggestion before I knew about the "wooded area" meaning of the word "bosky".

That meaning of "bosky" makes me wonder about the urban-rural schism that was prominent in the USA in the early 20th century-perhaps more than it is today. After all, during that part of the last century, a number of country folks were moving to the cities-and some of them may have retained their "country ways". The city folks looked down on those country "bumpkins" and the country folks were distainful of city folks-though that aspect is not part of my theory.

My new theory is that the name "Bosko" was meant to imply that some people would never truly be anything but "less than". In this context, I mean "less than White people".

I admit that I've never seen any of the Bosko cartoons, and all I know about those cartoons is what I've recently read. But I find it interesting that that character is described as a "boy" yet he has a girlfriend. So was that character a man or was he a boy? It occurs to me that it was customary to call a Black adult a boy even if he was an adult. Does the name "Bosko" for this cartoon character reflect the "casual" racism of that time as the depiction of the character appears to do? I think so.

So, to recap-I'm suggesting that the name "Bosko" was given to this cartoon character which was a minstrelized caricature of a Black boy/man to imply that he wasn't as good as White folks and never would be.

I arrived at this theory from 1.the meaning of the word "bosky" meaning wooded area [rural/"out in the country"] and 2. the schism between urban and rural folks which is reflected in American songs/movies/literature. and 3. the racism of the early 20th century when the Bosky character was created.

It's true that 1 and 1 and 1 don't always make 3 (?!). However, I think that I'm on to something here. Or maybe I'm out in left field or am down right "bosky"-that other definition of that word.

What do you think?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:15 PM

I neglected to say this before, but thanks Q for your link to that Don Bosco school in Canada.

**

leeneia, you mentioned that you had heard that Bosco chocolate syrup jingle in the 1950s, would you please share where (city and state-I'm assuming it was in the USA) that you heard it.

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM

Of course, Hugh Harman and Rudolf Ising, the animators who created that 1930s Bosko cartoon, may not have been thinking about drunkenness, or woods, or the schism between city & country folks when they named that cartoon character "Bosko".

And inspite of the fact that the Bosko cartoon character is without doubt a minstrelized caricature of a Black boy (or a Black man), the creators of that cartoon may not have been thinking anything at all about race when they gave that character the name "Bosko".

In any event, unless there is some documentation on this subject from those animators, we'll will never really know why they chose the name "Bosko" for that cartoon character.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: clueless don
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:43 AM

I vaguely remember the Bosco cartoons, but I was very young when I saw them and can't remember much detail. The one detail I think I do remember is that when he was eating, he opened his mouth with each chew, thus showing the partially chewed food (i.e. he didn't obey the classic parental admonition to "eat with your mouth closed!")

I also recall another cartoon from that same time period, about a character called "Beans". He would introduce himself by saying "Beans is the name - one of the Boston Beans." Perhaps this had absolutely no connection to Bosco, but I associate them in my mind.

As to Bosco chocolate syrup, I remember a fragment of a jingle that went something like

Bosco drinks his Bosco,
Bosco drinks his Bosco,
Bosco loves his Bosco -
You'll like Bosco too!

The tune for this had what I would call a "conga beat".

I'm betting that that is only part of the jingle, and I wouldn't be surprised if I am remembering it imperfectly.

Don


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:09 AM

clueless don, thanks for posting to this thread.

I recall reading the jingle you posted on one of the websites that I recently visited when I got (somewhat obsessed, I admit) about this Bosco, Bossky subject. I believe that I recall reading that that "Bosco loves his Bosco" was a jingle that was aired before the more famous "I love Bosco/it's rich and chocolately" jingle was produced and aired.

I know that there (still) is a brown teddy bear icon for the Bosco chocolate syrup label. For some reason he's usually depicted flying an old style airplane. I'm wondering if his name was "Bosco" .

And I'm wondering what-if anything- he Bosco syrup company felt about the contemporaneous Bosco cartoon character. It seems to me that if nothing else, the syrup and cartoon character having the same name helped with name recognition. But maybe it created some branding confusion.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM

Speaking about branding confusion, check out this post from another blog:

"(thing) by Chattering Magpie Thu Jul 26 2001 at 17:57:24

A common problem marketers and product developers face in naming their products, is the meaning or connotations of their product name in different languages.

My hometown of Astoria, Oregon has a large Finnish population. Try as they would, salesmen for the Bosco company simply could not sell their chocolate-flavoured syrup there, no matter what promotions or enticements they offered. Why? Because "Bosco" is remarkably similiar to the Finnish word for "shit".

No matter how tasty or cheap Bosco might be, no self-respecting Finnish housewife was going to serve her husband and children anything labeled shit."

http://everything2.com/title/bosco


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:25 AM

Don, thanks also for mentioning the cartoon character "Beans". That character was also unfamiliar to me. So I did some googling and found this information:

"Beans cartoon cat was a teammate of Porky Pig. Unfortunately the pig outshone the cat, even when Beans was the featured "actor". Beans was a chubby and impish character who walked on two legs (anthropomorphic - ascribing human form or attributes to a being or thing not human). The first cartoon was screened in 1935."

-snip-

For some reason, I can't make a workable hyperlink for this website, but I found it by googling beans cartoon. I clicked on the first drawing of the first entry that comes up for "Beans cartoons from the CartoonStock directory". That image on that page was of the cartoon character Beans behind bars (in jail).


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:30 AM

See this excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beans_(Looney_Tunes)

"Beans the Cat is an animated cartoon character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes series of cartoons from 1935-1936. Beans was the third Looney Tunes cartoon character star after Bosko and Buddy.

When the cartoon animators/directors Hugh Harman and Rudy Ising left Leon Schlesinger's studios in 1933, they took their main creation, Bosko, with them. Schlesinger had to rebuild his animation studio for Warner Bros. without so much as a marketable character to draw audiences. In Bosko's absence, the less-entertaining Buddy was introduced.

In 1935, animator Friz Freleng attempted to jumpstart the studio with his Merrie Melodies cartoon I Haven't Got a Hat. Its cast consisted of cute animal characters with funny names; e.g., Ham and Ex, Porky and Beans, Oliver Owl, and Little Kitty. Schlesinger hoped that some would catch on with audiences and become bankable stars.

The short was a success. Warners retired Buddy and began to push Beans the Cat as their next cartoon star. In 1935, Beans starred in his first solo Looney Tunes film, A Cartoonist's Nightmare, followed by Hollywood Capers. Beans then began appearing with characters from the cast of I Haven't Got a Hat, most frequently Porky Pig. However, after a number of Porky and Beans outings, it became clear that the character audiences were talking about was Beans's stuttering sidekick, Porky Pig."


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:53 AM

Don, your recollection of the cartoon character Bosco eating with his mouth open might add to my theory that Bosco was depicted as an unsophisticated, rural, and even uncouth person.

It would be interesting if a student of African American culture and and cartoons would trace the way that these three early 20th century cartoon characters were depicted. From my admittedly very limited knowledge of these cartoon characters it seems to me that Bosco and Buddy were depicted as Black coons and Beans was depicted as a Black buck. I'm using the mythic character types/stereotypes described by Donald Bogle in his 1992 book Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies & Bucks: An Interpretive History Of Blacks In American Film.

In his review of that book, Nigel Watson, writes
"Coons, are a source of amusement because they are complete buffoons... As Bogle notes: 'The pure coons emerged as...unreliable, crazy, lazy, subhuman creatures good for nothing more than eating watermelons, stealing chickens, shooting crap, or butchering the English language...

Bucks, constitute the brutal black man out to cause havoc. Often the savage and violent character is also over-sexed and eager to get more than his hands on white women."

http://www.talkingpix.co.uk/Books_Mammies.html


-snip-

It's interesting that both Bosco and Beans were characterized as being natural musicians. But that's also part of the Black stereotype.

I wonder if these characters were also good at dancing.
[semi-serious snark]


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM

Correction:

It's interesting that both Bosco and Buddy were characterized as being natural musicians. But that's also part of the Black stereotype.

See this excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_(Looney_Tunes)

"In the book Of Mice and Magic: A History of American Animated Cartoons, animator Bob Clampett is quoted as describing Buddy as "Bosko in whiteface". Despite these initial problems, Buddy would go on to be the studio's linchpin character for the next two years.
Music dominates in Buddy's world. The characters add visuals to the soundtrack and participate in gags. Buddy is usually accompanied in his films by his flapper girlfriend, Cookie, and his dog, Towser. The character would go on to star in 23 cartoons from 1933 to 1935 before he was retired to make way for new character called Beans the cat, who became the third Looney Tunes star before being replaced by Porky Pig}"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:40 AM

Well, that correction still includes the wrong spelling for the cartoon character Bosko.

I guess that's more evidence of the possibility for confusion between the names "Bosco" and "Bosko".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 10:58 PM

i'm the farmer who owns Bosky dell farm - we also had a band named Bosky dell in the early 80's in NYC and played CBGB's and Tin pan alley. I also drank Bosco as a kid. THAT's the connection.

We were named bosky dell because the poet Susie timmons thought we sounded like nymphs playing in a bosky dell.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bosco Jingle, Bosko Cartoon & Slang
From: GUEST,David Gerstein
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 01:02 AM

Azizi, you refer to your "theory that [Bosko] was depicted as an unsophisticated, rural, and even uncouth person."

He is definitely unsophisticated, but generally no more so than Mickey Mouse. The cartoons weren't afraid to show Bosko running businesses, accomplishing heroic feats and beating white bad guys for the hand of his black girlfriend, Honey.

Here's BOSKO'S PICTURE SHOW, where Bosko finishes by taking the villain's head off... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLp5fASNkc


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