BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:39 AM

Lets think about this "Walking the walk" shit.

If he gives out some lame apology to the Gosip rag reading plebeans, And seems to be as remorsefull as he can while his shifty eyes gave him away in the 60 minutes interview, and donate $1000000 of the multi-million dollar salary he only gets if a few people are stunned enough to beleve he is sorry, Then he gets to play football to make said money.

If he didn't get out with this, albeit transparent, change of mind I'd doubt he could get a mimimum wage job sweeping up shit at the zoo.

Do you also credit Charles Manson for the new tougher chrimes against murder?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 10:24 AM

Jeri, Thank you for making that point. It clarifies what I have been trying to say. You are right. There is no way to know what is in Vick's heart.

I look at his performance, or any other player's performance on and off the field and see the same thing. Are they doing it for the love of the game? For the money?

Why do so many have charitable foundations? To really help people? To have a golf tourney named for them? For a tax break. Look at Tim Tebow does he wear his religion on his sleeve to save souls or to sell Jerseys with his name on them. There is no proof that he is doing the former, but the sales numbers show that he is doing the latter, even before his success of the last couple of months.

I admire Vick as a football player, how he is as a moral human being is not for me to judge. How he is a role model? He does seem to be making a substantial effort to mitigate his past mistakes. But I really don't care about that when I watch him play, anymore than I care about how "Godly" Tebow is or what charities Tom Brady or Drew Brees support.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 10:07 AM

None of us are in a position to KNOW what's in Vick's heart, whether he truly cares about dogs now or just truly cares about his image. We can't know--we have to rely on gossip and reports from the media, and that's not knowing.

I'm sort of amazed that his career hasn't seemed to suffer much. I'm sort of amazed at what people (OK, football fans) will overlook. On one hand, I'm amazed.

On the other, I'm not, because WE CAN'T REALLY KNOW what's in Vick's heart. We, however, are prettydamnedsure he's a good football player.

People might want a crucifixion, but I don't see that as our job. Remembering-- maybe. Not watching football games with him in them-- sure. Never letting the guy own a dog again-- I hope so. Making other people feel bad for not agreeing with the views that we hold because of what we've heard about him-- no.

Me, I really do think he's changed, mostly because it's good for his career. If the change in behavior opened him up to a change in thinking, it's a good thing. Luckily, I don't care much for football. (Go Pats, anyway!)

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 10:01 AM

The "Holywood gossip" article was quoting a letter that Vick had put out there. "the newly-released star and new member of the Philadephia Eagles has written a lengthy, public apology"

They mentioned the letter and quoted the letter. I posted this in response to Gnu saying that Gnu had only heard one apology which Jon Stewart had trashed. I would trust nearly any news source, no matter what it called itself, to quote a letter in the public domain. So I did not look for a second source.


Here's the deal. You don't think he is sorry? Who gives a fuck whether he is or not? He is walking the walk.

According to the Humane Society of The United States, an organization which was instrumental in prosecuting him and presented evidence used in his trial,

Vick
received a very harsh sentence given the law at the time. He served it, was model prisoner and earned his parole.
Vick lobbied Congress for tougher penalties for Dog fighting crimes
Vick donated one million dollars to an organization that rehabilitates fighting dogs.
Vick speaks regularly to youth to discourage "Dog fighting culture."

It is arguable, almost a certainty, that Vick, since his conviction has made a bigger contribution to stopping dog fighting in the US that any other individual in the history of this country. He doesn't seem sorry enough for you? Tough shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:32 AM

Please don't take it personally that I've never heard of the Holywood gossip or that I don't consider it to be a trust worthy source, Or that I think it terribly nieve to believe a piece of shit who tourtured dogs for fun, when he says that he's sorry,or that I don't buy the fact that anyone displaying such pure evil can be rehabilitated.

I'm sure you are a great guy, how can you not be, you're from the tropical Island of NFLD!

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:45 AM

Raptor,

You are being very disrespectful to me. I will not return that treatment. You sarcastically commented report of the apology because of its source. Here is another source. The Humane Society of the US

It seems that the HSUS believes that Vick was "strongly" punished considering the law at the time.

"Given the penalties available at the time he was sentenced, U.S. District Court Judge Henry Hudson meted out a strong penalty to Vick. He paid a steep price for his crimes, in addition to serving his prison sentence. The HSUS has worked to upgrade the federal animal fighting law twice in the last two years. The penalties are much more severe now than in April 2007, when Vick's home was raided. The HSUS has been pushing for felony-level penalties for animal fighting crimes for years because that's the only way to drive criminals out of this business."

Vick seems to be making a substantial effort ($1,000,000) to mitigate the damage and to decrease dog fighting.

"After meeting with Vick and hearing him express his remorse, Pacelle consulted with The HSUS' board of directors and staff. Despite our utter disgust with what Vick did and our leading role in making sure he was convicted and punished for his crimes, we decided that shunning Vick forever would do no good for any animal. Vick paid $1 million for the care and rehabilitation of the dogs at Bad Newz Kennels. Now, we want him to contribute his time to attack the problem by reaching inner-city youth. "

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:28 AM

"Anyone who apologizes for that sicko is as sick as he is."

Are you referring to me? I don't apologize for other people. But I do believe the man has served his time. I also believe that he received harsher punishment than his cohorts because he was famous. I think you all might have a legit beef with the prosecutors and whether you think the sentencing guidelines are stiff enough. But Vick is an ex-con who has done all that he was told to do. If you hate dog fighting, perhaps you can find a more current and productive way to express that.

Why Don't you support the Humane Society like this guy does?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:21 AM

To me, they are all little boys that never grew up emotionally.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:27 PM

I'd say the Lions are going that way this year with Suh and the others getting flagged for dirty play. Shit if you shake thier coaches hand too fast he'll try to pick a fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:25 PM

Odd you should say that, Bobert. I have never liked the Eagles. Always found them to be "dirty" players... nasty... bent on dirty play and injury. I COULD be wrong, but smash-mouth is one thing and dirty is another. Just always felt that way. Like Philly in hockey... just nasty and dirty.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:09 PM

The Eagles is the perfect team for Vick...

Bunch of sickos...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 07:18 PM

Anyone who apologizes for that sicko is as sick as he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 06:31 PM

Wow if the Holywood gossip printed it it must be true.

Great reporting.
I think his publisist might have written that or his agent mabey.
Just a guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:55 PM

""Sorry, Mikey, I didn't pick up that block like I should have, dawg."

I also think that there is zero of the above going on because of his crimes. Keep in mind that his aggressive running invites hits and that he is over 30. and only 6 feet tall. The injuries are par for the course. Also a lot of QBs get hit more than he does and he is the only one, so far, convicted of financing and abetting dog fighting.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:30 PM

Thanks Jts. I hadn't seen that. All I saw was what I said above.

In any case, there is still a part of me that says, "Karma's a bitch, eh Mikey?" I know that ain't right, but it's the way I feel.

I hope he gets the help he needs. Of course, he obviously has and will on accounta there is a lotta $$$ ridin on his success.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:13 PM

apology news

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:59 PM

JtS... "got out and apologized"

Ah, noooo, not that I know of. He was interviewed and asked if their was anything he wish he could change about his life... any thing he was sorry for. He did NOT mention the dog fighting. John Stewart, on The Daily Show (I think it was him) showed a clip of the interview on and went apeshit on Vick.

Yes, he paid his debt and, yes, he deserves a second chance and, yes, I am enjoying seeing him getting hit hard, especially when his own team players allow it to happen... "Sorry, Mikey, I didn't pick up that block like I should have, dawg." Yeah, I know they have jobs and wanna keep em, but, a missed block here and there? What the hell.

Psychotic piece of trash! Sic Rover!

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:55 PM

Raptor, Worse is done to cows and chickens for your benefit every day. No one goes to jail. In fact there are government subsidies.

He wasn't the only responsible adult involved. According to the reports he was not directly involved in nearly all of the crimes. He took the heat. He took responsibility. He went to jail. He ended up losing tens of millions of income as a result. He was the only one seriously punished for the crimes. That is more than can be said for a lot of criminals out there, including the people who will be fighting animals this very night.

Do any of you believe in second chances? In rehabilitation? Give it a rest will you? Go find a current problem to moan about.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:55 PM

Hear hear Raptor.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:40 PM

BRAVO

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:38 PM

This, as far as I can read, is not a thread about football. Its a thread about a SOB who hung a dog by the back legs and tortured it to a slow death because that son of a bitch lost some money when the dog didn't kill its oponent in a fight it was forced to be in.

I am troubled by anyone who thinks that such a monster did his time after 18 months at "Club Fed".

If you want to ignore this thread and go talk football there is a thread for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 01:51 PM

Vick was one of the most famous players in Football before he was arrested. His cousins all ratted on him and got slaps on the wrist. He went to federal prison did his time, got out and apologized. Case closed. Lets talk about football.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 07:15 AM

If he jumped off the Empire State building and made a big hit on Broadway it would be no loss to me.I don't cre if he can throw a friggin' football to the moon, he's still sub human to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 01:05 AM

But then again, depending on how his career goes, it might go WAY UP in value!...then the loss would be YOURS!..screw it, he did his time, and if he wouldn't have got busted in the first place NOBODY would have hardly heard of him!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:48 AM

I like gnu's hint.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:07 PM

Low life, scum sucking, son of a syphilitic whore's pig fucking,bastard.He's lucky I wasn't his judge.Lynching was ok for his dog, it's ok for him.
Strong post to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 03:26 PM

This might be a TERRIBLE thing to say, but, he has been "injury prone" since his return, hasn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:13 PM

I saw the eagles play in Buffalo this season and the protesters were out in full force.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:06 AM

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:43 PM

"D.F." is Districto Federal = Mexico City

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:30 PM

"D.F.?"

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:07 PM

In Chiapas a few years back, orchid hunting, we boarded a plane in Tapachula. The flight was held up for a few minutes while the owner of several fighting cocks, wearing a fine western outfit with top quality Stetson and a silver-plated revolver on each hip, saw that the cages of his birds were properly stowed for the flight. We also watched, to make sure that our two coffee-picking bags of orchids were not squeezed.
Cock fighting and, as far as I know, dog fighting are legal except in the D. F.

Dog fights were held regularly outside of Juarez, attracting people from El Paso and southern New Mexico; I presume that these fights continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:55 PM

True story:

When we moved to Page County I was apprached by this guy who wanted to book me to play at a cockfight!!! Seems that live music is part of the big party...

I didn't even know that stuff was going onback then and declined the invite politely but was completely shocked...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:07 PM

Michael Vick Says He Cried In Prison

The cynic in me says that if he cried, it was because he got caught, not because he participated in dog fighting.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:20 PM

Vick is still the dullest crayon in the box. He can't lie convincingly even about his own contrition. He can play with a ball and hurt people. Thats why he has a job in football.
Koreans eat dogs, he helped kill dogs without eating them. He is a hired TV gladiator that paid the price for someone else's sense of morality who loves dogs but will play gladiators against each other with at least one ambulance taking away an injured man per game.

FUnny morality if you think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:07 PM

Peace has expanded with more information on the dog-fighting problem.
The culture should be the focus of attack, rather than one individual who happens to have a high profile.

Reviling Vick and barring him from employment in his profession fails to address the overall problem.

Canada has inadequate deterrents.
Mike Draper, Ontario SPCA says it is a problem in SW and central Ontario. He says a loophole in regulations is that it is not illegal to train dogs for fighting, and fighting fines in Ontario are low- $2000 or six months in jail. This has caused some Michigan dog-fighters to move operations to Ontario.

Nova Scotia SPCA says it is time to ban dog fighting in the province- Nov 18, 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:20 AM

If he's playing quarter back for the Eagles, and the Eagles are playing the Giants, then the Giants need to train a vicious Perro de Presa Canario to play defensive end.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:27 PM

Vick getting back in the game shouldn't be such a surprise to you. Everyone was warned:

"April 3, 2009 — Vick testifies in federal bankruptcy court that he has become a changed man and will do all the right things upon his release from prison, including repaying his creditors by resuming his professional football career."

I am of more than one mind in all this. On the one hand learning of cruelty to children and animals is the one thing that reduces me to helpless tears. On the other, I am also aware that there are people who just don't get it. .

These are people among us who are decent, loving, 'god-fearing' folks who simply lack a frame of reference for that kind of empathy, who seem to think of animals of all kinds as being fair game (no pun intended) for anything they might wish to do to them for whatever reason, whether for convenience, curiosity, punishment, example, greater profit or what have you. Look at the Amish and their horrifying puppy mills.

As has been said above, dog fighting and cock fighting goes on all over this country. The owners of the animals are not the only ones complicit in this- people gather to watch and to lay their money down. I understand large chunks of money change hands. And yet I have no difficulty believing that these are people who love their families, perhaps even their pets- and one challenges their love of country at one's own peril..

Have any of you watched and enjoyed 'The Sopranos'? I have a problem with anyone espousing the virtues of mercy and compassion, of legalities and fair play, and yet who fell in love with that series.

I used to live in Oregon. In the hills above various towns are fighting cocks, each in its own little 'house' visible from the dirt roads. It is illegal to fight them but NOT illegal to breed and keep them. And yet everyone knows for what purpose they are being kept. They are not maintained in top condition as pets; you can lay your money on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:03 PM

From CNN in 2007.

CNN) -- An estimated 40,000 people in the United States are involved in professional dogfighting, an illegal blood sport with fight purses as high as $100,000.

The latest accusations against Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick and three other people highlight the problem. They are accused in an indictment that describes dogs being routinely executed if they didn't fight fiercely.

The indictment was handed down Tuesday by a federal grand jury in Richmond, Virginia.

The nightmare of dogfighting is growing, according to the Humane Society of the United States.

John Goodwin, an expert on animal fighting with the Humane Society, says there are an estimated 40,000 professional dogfighters in the United States, involved in putting on fights and buying and selling fighting dogs. Watch what goes on at a high-stakes dog fight »

But, Goodwin adds, there could be as many as 100,000 additional people involved in "streetfighting" -- informal dogfighting, often involving young people in gangs.

"It's far more pervasive than people think and it's definitely been on the upswing in the past five to 10 years," he told CNN. See how dogfighters operate and have their own language »

Statistics from animal shelters give another indicator of the rise in dogfighting, Goodwin said. Fifteen years ago, 2 to 3 percent of the dogs coming into animal shelters were pit bulls; now, he said, pit bulls make up about a third. At one shelter in Jersey City, New Jersey, Goodwin said, the figure is 65 percent, with 20 percent of them showing the scars that indicate they have been fighting dogs.

A database run by animal advocacy group Pet-abuse.com, which collects reports of animal abuse, shows reports of dogfighting cases increased from 16 in 2000 to 127 in 2006. The group has found 74 cases reported so far this year.

Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states. It's a misdemeanor in Idaho and Wyoming, and a felony everywhere else. But in some states where dogfighting is a felony, it's still perfectly legal to own a fighting dog or be a spectator at a dogfight. See where it's legal to be a spectator »

A bill signed by President Bush in May made the federal law against dogfighting tougher, by strengthening penalties to felony level. The law bans interstate commerce, import and export related to animal fighting activities. Violators can now be sentenced to three years in jail and a $250,000 fine. Previously the maximum sentence was a year in jail.

Despite the laws, dogfighting is big business. Goodwin said it's impossible to estimate the amount of money involved, but the purse for a top-level professional fight could be $100,000.

"There are about a dozen underground dogfighting magazines, and about half a dozen ... registries that are exclusively used by either dogfighters or people that are fighting dog enthusiasts," Goodwin said. "You have an organized infrastructure for what is a criminal industry."

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:11 PM

Very well put, Bobert. I watched, too, and Vick was showing other classic cues that he was lying, besides the darting eyes: he licked his lips; he gave some evasive answers; he sat back in his seat as if to be as far from the interviewer as possible (sometimes to the point that part of his head was out of the camera frame).

As was pointed out in the 60 Minutes segment by James Brown, Vick had been carefully groomed, coached and rehearsed for that interview by his attorneys and media staff. Based on that, and on his past behavior (including his contradictory statements in 2007 and his deceptiveness during a pre-sentencing polygraph test when asked about the killing of the dogs), it's impossible to determine whether anything he said in today's interview was sincere. I think we'll have to wait until he makes some spontaneous comments to reporters to see what his true mindset is. Hopefully he will not make any more spontaneous gestures such as giving fans the finger, as he did in Atlanta.

- - - - -

Q: This thread's purpose is the same as any other Mudcat thread's purpose: to allow people to give their opinions on a given subject. This thread's subject is the signing of Michael Vick to a multi-million-dollar contract by the Philadelphia Eagles, and reaction to the news by fans and others. So, yes, it's about Vick's punishment for his crime and his subsequent (and oh-so-rapid) reinstatement into the NFL.

If you wish to talk about the problem of dogfighting in American society here, you are certainly welcome to do so; it is not unrelated to the subject of this thread, but it was not my primary purpose in starting this thread. My primary purpose was to vent my frustration with a different problem: the problem of a legal system and a big-business economy that, working in tandem, give major sports stars with felony convictions some major breaks that the rest of us would never get.

But since you are so unfamiliar with Michael Vick, I suggest that you do a good bit of research into his background and his criminal case before posting again to tell the rest of us who is saying "sensible words about Vick and dog-fighting" and who is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 08:16 PM

I just finished watching Michael Vick on "60 Minutes" and during the inerview he mentioned about 7 things he was sorry for having done... One of the seven was the crime... The other six had to do with the aggrivation that being caught has caused him...

His eyes darted back and forth during questions about animal cruelty...

Okay, I'll be the first admit that alot of folks belong to a culture where this kinda of behavior/entertainment is okay... We have it right here in Page Country, Va. with cockfighting... It still goes on here inspite of the former sheriif being busted for allowing it to occur...

Yeah, Vick is who he is and people don't really change that much... They just get more so... I don't know what is in Michael Vick's heart but from watching his facial expressions and listening to his words during the interview I doubt very much if he really gets it...

But that is his problem... The fact that he can play football shouldn't be seen as the only thing on the planet he could do to make a living so I don't buy the argument that he should be allowed to "make a living"... There are millions of other folks who get up at 5 ion the orning, catch a bus and do what they have to do for very little money... He should have had to do a little of that, too, before being considered for the big money... Had he been a backup linebacker, the NFL would treat this very different...

I am disgusted by Vick and I am disgusted by a culture that values a guy who can throw a friggin' ball over it's moral fabric...

The End

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 07:57 PM

I don't follow any professional team, football or what have you. I had never heard of Vick before this came up.

This thread doesn't seem to be serving any purpose. The punishment, rather than the problem, seems to be what interests folks here.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 06:39 PM

Of course each state does. A training center for fight dogs was broken up near here last year and dogfighting made a felony in Idaho as a result.

We're having a "vicious dog" debate here right now. I hope that it's not settled by breed, because ANY dog can be made vicious just as any human can.

Were I a judge and someone convicted of training dogs for dogfighting were brought before me I would not hesitate to impose the maximum sentence allowed by law. It is not the animals who are guilty, but the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 06:37 PM

Q: By citing all that information, you've proven my point that money talks to dogfighters far more loudly than a few speeches of questionable sincerity mouthed by a pro football star who's making millions after being given a golden ticket by the NFL and the courts.

I don't want to "lynch" Vick and I object to your putting that label on me, especially as we are talking about an African-American here. (Besides, let's not forget that Vick was the one who hung a living being from a tree and tortured it as it died.) I'm not a "boss" of anything. I am simply a person living in the Philadelphia area and finding myself disgusted at the thought of wearing any of my several Eagles shirts and hats ever again. I'm disgusted that I won't be able to avoid hearing Vick's name in sports reports on the local news for the foreseeable future. I'm disgusted that I will hear people around me talking about him and cheering for him. I'm disgusted that the Eagles made this deal. I'm disgusted that they gave him Ron Jaworski's number 7 to wear. I'm disgusted that Vick is here, where I live.

You like him so much? You move here and be his fan, and tell people around here that they must understand how someone who made a dishonest living in an illegal betting scheme on the backs of bleeding, dying dogs must be allowed to earn an honest living now. See how far you get doing that here.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM

SharonA will be boss of the lynch mob. Fine!

Dog fighting was not outlawed in all states until 1976. The Federal Law with the penalties assessed Vick came in in 2007. In Wyoming, it is only a misdemeanor.
As to numbers and communities involved, the statement is from Wayne Pacelle, HSUS, and is not mine, but on visits to many states in the southern tier, southern Illinois and Hawai'i, the fights seem to be common knowledge.
Texas, Arizona and New Mexico can do little because the fights and betting often take place across the border in Mexico where they are legal.

The Humane Society has estimated "more than 40,000 people across the country buy and sell fighting dogs and are involved in dogfighting activities" (from Wikipedia article).

Wikipedia- "Despite legality issues, dogs are still commonly used for fighting purposes all across the continent. The American Pit Bull (American Staffordshire, AKC) is the most popular, but forign breeds such as Dogo Argentino...and Preso Canario are gaining popularity....In Miami-Dade County, Florida, where the APBT is banned, the Dogo Argentino has become the main fighting dog of choice, being used at both organized and street level dog fighting.
In 2005 in Oklahoma, 200 dogs were seized in one raid.

Rhonda Evans, University of Louisiana, says "owners of high-dollar fighting dogs spanned all walks of life and social classes, with a common link of a "machismo mentality."
Jay-Z and some other rappers glorify dog-fighting.

Bait dogs (stolen pets) are used in training (Pima Co. AZ, bait dogs had snouts wrapped to prevent them from injuring fighting dogs).
"Patricia Wagner, head of the National Illegal Animal Fighting Task Force for the Humane Society of the U. S., said "I think every state has a problem with it, whether they know it or not."

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 04:08 PM

Tens of thousands of people, divided by hundreds of communities, equals at least one hundred people per community. Hmmmm...??? I too wonder where those figures came from... and how Pacelle defines "community". Is Philadelphia considered one community? Is each neighborhood within the city one community? Or is each dogfighting ring one community? Sounds vague to me.

Anyway, "community support" for HSUS's position is great but it will be a long time in coming, no matter what Vick does. A more immediate, more forceful means of impressing the "community" would be to demonstrate to them that crime doesn't pay in the long term as well as in the prison term. One way of doing that is to boycott and protest to Vick's advertisers, Eagles advertisers and NFL advertisers, and urge them to withdraw their financial support of his comeback. A list of sponsors of the Eagles is at www.sackvick.net

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:55 PM

While I think that one person involved in dogfighting is too many, I would like to know where Pacelle got his figures.

In fact, tens of thousands of us would like to know.

Cite your sources or I'll assume you made them up.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:51 PM

Wayne Pacelle blog, "A Humane Nation," president of the Humane Society of the United States, on the Humane Society of the United States website:
Excerpts:

"With tens of thousands of people involved in dogfighting, in hundreds of communities, it is impossible for us and law enforcement to arrest or scare off all of the perpretators. We have to prevent them from getting involved in the first place, and build community support for our position. That's why we have added our community-based programs to our portfolio of anti-dogfighting activities.

"I personally am thrilled whenever a dogfighter turns around, just like I am when a trophy hunter lays down his weapon or a bullfighter puts down his cape to join our side. I have to think that many of the ex-dogfighters we work with may have some self-interested motivations in getting involved. But we give them a chance to demonstrate an actual, on-the-ground commitment to our (and other) programs and then we make our judgements. It's the same with Michael Vick."

.............."If Michael Vick doesn't fulfill his pledge to combat dogfighting, we'll be the first to call attention to that. But if he does come through, and he turns some kids around and helps animals, then I'll be the first to say that's a good thing."

Pacell, HSUS
(Scroll far down)

As stated by Wayne Pacell, Vick is just one of tens of thousands. Prosecutions just drive the problem further underground as people and communities involved close ranks.
Education, social pressure and example are the only cure.

The lynch mob mentality of some posters here serves no purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 12:53 PM

"Not only has he served his sentence..."

He did not serve the entire 23-month sentence -- a sentence which was determined by plea bargain (it would have been harsher if he had not changed his plea to guilty after his 3 partners changed their pleas to guilty and agreed to give evidence against him). It seems patently obvious that Vick was released after only 18 months of prison time so that he could play football this fall. The NFL should have done what the legal system (I won't call it the "justice" system) has not done: it should have said, "Not this year."

The NFL should have waited to see whether Vick would demonstrate true remorse for his actions by speaking out against dogfighting -- and changing his ways by showing up for such speaking engagements! -- and then they could have considered him for the 2010 season if he had proven that he would not be a distraction to a team and to its fans.

As things stand, he is not only a distraction but a lightning rod for emotions about the dogfighting issue and about Vick's presence on the Eagles team. There has been a clash between the team and the public ALREADY. HHere's an article about yesterday's team practice, where a different Eagles player tore the signs of protesters...


Protesters: Eagles Player Taunted Us

Philadelphia - The situation in Philadelphia between animal-rights protesters and the Eagles is getting uglier.

On Saturday [August 15], a small number of protesters stood outside the Philadelphia Eagles' training facility as players left practice.

One protester said a young Eagles' player openly mocked the group, a claim that an Eagles' rep quickly denied to Fox 29.

Most Eagles players left practice without speaking with protesters. It was the first practice in Philadelphia for convicted dog abuser Michael Vick.

But protesters say one Eagles player did speak with them and it wasn't a pleasant conversation.

They said the player tore down some of their signs.

"He started right in, calling us crazy, 'don't you guys have a job,' 'why are you guys out here," said one male protester.

"I said, 'Rookie, wrong way to start off here in Philadelphia," added the protester.

Eagles PR told Fox 29 they were "very positive" the man was not an Eagles' player, but protesters told Fox 29 they were "very positive" the man played for the Eagles.

The group also echoed complaints from the local SPCA that the Eagles and Vick have not reached out to local groups to explain how Vick will help prevent animal abuse in Philadelphia.

"Nobody has a plan, Is he going to give money to shelters or help fostering programs?" asked Patty Bentivegna, a protester.

Jennifer Utley, a local SPCA leader and the wife of Phillies star Chase Utley, told a local newspaper on Saturday that Vick and the Eagles still haven't reached out to her group.

"I think if you're planning on being conscious of a very sensitive issue it might be positive to (contact us)," Jen Utley told the Delaware County Times. "I don't work for the Eagles. I don't know what their (public relations) department does. I only know that reports said they called us. They didn't."

From FOX TV station in Philadelphia (Channel 29)


By the way, although The Humane Society supports Vick and thinks he will come through on his promises to speak at Society events, the SPCA protested outside the Eagles' press conference on Friday [August 14] when Vicks' signing was officially announced.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Vick, dog-fighter, is an Eagle
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 07:42 AM

He Hung a dog and beat it slowly till it died.

After 2 years at CLUB FED they say he paid his debt to society?

This guys a monster.

He's only sorry he got caught.

Dog fighting is concidered to be ok in the south as is cock fighting, BUT he tortured these creatures slowly!

If he were given to San Fran I would mail back all my niners jerseys flags helmets and tailgating gear. I sent Scott McCloughan(GM) a letter 4 months ago that stated the same.

Evil sadistic bastards can't change thier hearts.